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Thread: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

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    United States Avalon Member Free Thinker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Still catching up on posts here in this thread, so bear with me please, but wanted to say something real quick.

    Isn't any/all belief (including the choice to not believe) vital for human consciousness and awareness overall?

    After all, wasn't it Friedrich Nietzsche who quoted more or less that a nihilistic society could not possibly survive, much less even exist in the first place? I'd extend that to a nihilistic universe just as well. Or multiverse, omniverse, sentient/sapient biological genetic blueprint, grand/meta-civilization, or whatever else the case may be.

    I would think the nature of 'belief' would have its own light, dark and shadow aspects to it, just like anything else in existence.

    See this thread here for more discussion on infinite possibilities and ways of attempting to interpret said infinite possibilities from our extremely limited perspectives.

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...Life-Existence
    Last edited by Free Thinker; 29th April 2021 at 15:24. Reason: fixed link
    "The truth will set us free, whatever that may be."
    "Question everything. Make a path where there was not one before."
    "We are part of the Universe. It's story, is our story."

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I like the definition of intelligence as the ability to adapt to change. (Stephen Hawking) It's the "MacGuyver"-type person that expresses this intelligence, not someone like a medical student that has memorized a vast array of pharmaceutical chemical names.

    As DeDukshyn said, IQ tests test primarily for pattern recognition. I believe that the IQ tests many of us old farts took as young kids were much less pattern recognition and relied much more heavily on vocabulary and math skills. I've not seen a modern "standard" IQ test, so this is somewhat conjecture based on an IQ test that was published in a scienc-y magazine (Science Digest, I think) a decade or so ago, that they said could be used as a Mensa (high-IQ organization) qualifying test. It was primarily pattern recognition. I remember reading that the old IQ tests came under fire for the vocabulary portion being (unintentionally) geared towards middle class white people, and tests were updated to try to remove the culturally-biased verbiage.

    You can study for and take practice tests of an IQ test, and your IQ number will go up. Did you actually get more intelligent?

    The SAT and ACT tests that US students take to determine their level of knowledge are tests of language and math skills, and don't even attempt to quantify intelligence (even if the people taking the tests believe it quantifies their intelligence), but rather the ability to succeed in college-level material. These tests are more like what Mike describes as a somewhat reliable indicator of the ability to succeed in life (or at least, in college.)

    I like Bill's premise that "belief" is the primary opaque veil thrown over intelligence. The victim doesn't lose intelligence, they block it. I know a bunch of credentialed scientists, and have witnessed - many times - bullsh!t rationalizations and mental gyrations to support something that was based on or tinged by faith/belief and not on data or scientific analysis.


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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    @Dennis Leahy
    Whatever the current criteria they're using to "test" for intelligence these days, I am not that versed in. One of my main gripes was in fact what you said above about the language and math skills. I'd go as far as to say they're testing for synthetic intelligence aka what they THINK is intelligence, which COULD be tested for, but doesn't really count considering it's bogus to begin with. True intelligence cannot be measured. Our minds are too finite for that sort of thing to figure out the proper way to do that - like EVER. Life is a multi-dimensional process after all, and the same goes for intelligence.

    A bit off-topic, but I wanted to share a story from long ago when I had to take one of those ink blot tests, for whatever reason whoever it was (can't recall) was asking me to take one of these.

    So, okay, I take one of these tests, person shows me an ink blot and asks what I see in it? My response?

    Me: Vampire bat.

    Person who was evaluating the test results gave me a 'WTF' look at that. I'm just sorry I didn't reciprocate in giving them a 'WTF' look back. Argh. To this day, I still don't know what was so odd about that, as vampires bats DO exist. I just chalk it up to the person being a close-minded moron, and leave it at that.

    I still remember this and when I look back on it, I have to either laugh at the idiocy/close-mindedness of the person evaluating said test, or just shake my head at the ridiculousness of how they chose to respond to my answer about what I interpreted the ink blot to look like.

    Ask me again, and that 'vampire bat' could easily morph into a fairy nebula, a zombie butterfly, a pig with wings, my paternal grandmother when she's on her zealous high horse talking about religion and whatnot, Bambi having overcome T-Rex and is now in a permanent state of enlightened euphoria, or anything else my [wacky] conscious/subconscious mind deems to come up with, LOL.
    "The truth will set us free, whatever that may be."
    "Question everything. Make a path where there was not one before."
    "We are part of the Universe. It's story, is our story."

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Free Thinker (here)
    Still catching up on posts here in this thread, so bear with me please, but wanted to say something real quick.

    Isn't any/all belief (including the choice to not believe) vital for human consciousness and awareness overall?

    After all, wasn't it Friedrich Nietzsche who quoted more or less that a nihilistic society could not possibly survive, much less even exist in the first place? I'd extend that to a nihilistic universe just as well. Or multiverse, omniverse, sentient/sapient biological genetic blueprint, grand/meta-civilization, or whatever else the case may be.

    I would think the nature of 'belief' would have its own light, dark and shadow aspects to it, just like anything else in existence.

    See this thread here for more discussion on infinite possibilities and ways of attempting to interpret said infinite possibilities from our extremely limited perspectives.

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...Life-Existence

    Belief is ok, even vital in some instances - as Nietzsche points out - as it applies to God or perhaps a set of spiritual practices. The problem with the world today is the drastic subjectivist turn it has taken, and the blurring of what is real (objective truth) with what is opinion ("your" truth/belief, or "my" truth/belief), and the assumption that any so called "truth" (subjective) is just as valid as any other truth (objective). It makes for an incoherent, dangerously chaotic world.

    There are infinite ways to interpret the world, but only a few that are in any way coherent and productive universally. This is what the humanities used to be for, to help students make those distinctions. Now the humanities are corrupt and poisoned by postmodern ideas and the whole thing has become quite a sh!tstorm
    Last edited by Mike; 1st May 2021 at 02:24.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    The concept of belief can severely limit/hinder one in their spiritual path/life journey, or it could make them soar to undefinable, if not even outright infinite heights of divine euphoria - or anything else in between. It's all a matter of perspective and where one is putting their attention.
    "The truth will set us free, whatever that may be."
    "Question everything. Make a path where there was not one before."
    "We are part of the Universe. It's story, is our story."

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Sue (Ayt) (here)
    Just as a small aside, when I worked briefly in our state capitol's advocacy group for the gifted, we made the points that a higher proportion of students measured as gifted dropped out of school, and also a surprisingly high proportion of prisoners are gifted. The advocacy group was attempting to attain more funding for the gifted, as many programs for the students on the higher end of the normal curve were very low-budget, cut, or non-existent, in comparison to the funding for other special needs programs. Many just did not see the need for any extra funding for the gifted.

    The point being, that high IQ's do not necessarily equal societal success. Both extremes of the curve do tend to have problems fitting in with the bulk majority.
    Happened upon this video that is interesting. (16 minutes long)
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Talking Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Nope, it's a demonstrably accurate way of testing for intelligence. It's so blatantly and statistically obvious that it cannot be disputed.
    Well, I assume that was tongue-in-cheek. An IQ test tests how good you are at doing an IQ test. Nothing more. That's the point of this thread!

    See also this thread, in which the whole elusive notion of "intelligence" was discussed here a couple of years ago. That also touches on how very unintelligent some people with high IQs are.

    Being able to do math puzzles against the clock has absolutely nothing to do with true intelligence, awareness and being a fully-functioning, high-ability human being. Anyone who can't see that may not be very bright.

    No I'm deadly serious! An IQ test is a clear indicator of how well you'll perform in the world. It's self evident.
    Well, maybe I'm just not very bright. It's not self-evident to me!

    "How well you'll perform in the world..."
    • As a loving parent?
    • An inspiring teacher?
    • A natural empath?
    • A healer? A poet? An artist? A gifted gardener? A great cook? An animal rescuer? A suicide hotline counselor?
    • The kindest friend you ever knew?
    • Someone you'd dearly love to ask to marry you?
    • Someone who would willingly endanger their life to help a colleague in a battle? (Or on a mountain, or at sea?)
    • Someone with a hotline to God, in whatever form that might take in our modern world?
    I know which Avalon members I really admire and would love to have as neighbors. (That list includes yourself, by the way. ) But IQ isn't a qualifier. Being a sensitive, aware, high-spirited, perceptive, kind person definitely is.

    Many people with very high IQs are limited, blinkered, self-justifying, self-important jerks. I could easily generate a long list of well-known public figures, and so could you. They're highly able in just one nerdy specialty. (And they may be sociopaths as well.)

    And many people who've never excelled academically are the most wonderful, altruistic people you'd ever be lucky enough to meet... the kind of people I'm guessing you'd like to see making decisions about the world.

    So true!!! Today I saw some people in a restaurant and some looked like that they had very high IQs by the way they acted I don't know I've had along time being in a metro city, he act so smart and looked, that he's the type that he can bully me, but I don't like to suppose that but that's how I am I love being so aware and act and think fast but not like an high IQ person its just not the same as a intelligent spiritual patient more empathy and a high IQ person would be like whats that's that's wierd your just retarded or something like not connecting sense I know some have sense but its different. but nothing like Bill Ryan said totally wise way much important and more intelligent being your statement it so accurate.....

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Dan Bongino, in this new podcast: (just 35 seconds in, at the very start)
    The most dangerous people in the world are stupid smart people.
    (He's right. )

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    If the villainy results from stupidity, then I can say that I have met many who talk about "stupidity" from position as "smart" people (ie some who really feel outside the concept).

    I, for example, am not a smart girl, especially when I laugh at "weak" jokes, but the intelligence of my heart cries with others on a large scale.

    A little extreme, maybe it would be:
    "" Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. " Albert Einstein
    or: " “A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.” Carlo M. Cipolla

    A Romanian writer says "Smart people reach levels of stupidity, according to their intelligence".

    Stupidity, as a "current" condition and close to "habit" for efficient and predictable masses as manifestation and actions as such, is somehow, (almost pathetically or slightly parallel paranoid said), a "clinical" syndrome, a kind of unseen and wise resignation by default, for the opposite side, to accept it as it is.

    If we talk about the "chromatic energy of stupidity", there (here) is the expression "stupid as night" which refers to the darkness of personal and individual aura that translates a kind of energetic poverty which for the sake of expression may mean a kind of laziness or incompleteness, a kind of insufficiency or a handicap chosen "from the clarity of faith or intelligence"; a kind of non-strong instability or "obtuse angle", one ( or many) deficit of judgment, in the spectrum of zero patience, or a kind of emptiness filled by the ego's arsenal of instincts (a fragility - consciously helpless - contagious), or "the number one job" followed by "existence"(but not life).
    / anyway (interpretative as it is, it is a major subject);

    Academic stupidity, around my area, is a kind of perplexity (I call it candor), or with the greatest indulgence, I call it "innocence", (just as fools usually keep their mouths open when they don't understand), the "lollipop of intelligence challenges" them but their ego makes them swallow it and drown in it. Usually most are drowned in their own air of arrogance (an almost physical illness, from my remarks...not final).

    Quite simply, as the system grows in its entire chain of weaknesses, referring to the "educational" one's used acutely, I see .. and i see..."the death of education going on the streets" in the free change of load of "cultures and "concepts,
    anyway, as a tragic-ironic form, an old friend said:
    "The fool is a person who knows. I mean he knows and he IS sure. He has no doubts, and if we are careful, he also has explanations, and if we do not understand we are categorized as 'stupid,' so it is assumed that we should to agree with something we never fully know, which in nature is also "stupid."

    I'm sorry for the lack of "solemnity", but usually those "who have solutions" are the ones who suffer the most, (in both cases). At least, I think we all have an insufficiency at some point, without taking frustration into account, it can be a model of "praise" if we take it easy and learn from it.

    Stubbornness and ardor of opinion, is the surest whip for those who do not want to be contradicted; and especially in these times, there is really no time to judge others.

    "It's false to think we know something..."usually, if we have the attitude: "Okay. I take your word for it and I don't argue, but don't imagine, that you or I, really know anything", we are categorized as ignorant, so it's not good in any way.

    I met people so confident and convinced of themselves, in such a way that they had a kind of constant disturbing happiness (which I was not envious of) from which it was obligatory to show "that they are right with a just and high judgment." on the other hand, they are always reducible to something simple schematic and you can intuit their movements very easily (they usually have fixed ideas, a standardized, repeatable speech, so cliché like "I love you I love you too" without any essence )

    I'm sorry, but, maybe, standardizing speech as a beginning of control and stupidity, it's become a kind of talent to say on social media (at extremely low levels and only occasionally, to be generous): "I'm Tarzan and I have a basket, you are Jane and you have four apples: (How long will it take us to "get married" to save the world?), and i know this is "ego" right here...

    Sometimes, it's hard for me to see this "handmade Inflation in especially pink way" elaborated for the denigration of the real and living soul potential- human communication; this militant "teleguiding" on the whole world of idealization, treating the human being as an entity in convalescence with acute tolerance it must stop, but it will not.

    Maybe many vices can be corrected, just so that we are no longer easily "confiscated" by the system, especially since the "problem of stupidity in the world" may be related to the "problem of evil" and many "serve the daily menu" of their choice.
    But what do I know?
    I know for sure that any mistake can be corrected, as long as education, common sense, good will and especially unconditional love have not been destroyed.

    If ignorance can be remedied, stupidity can easily be "institutionalized", if there will be no drop of love for human beings and life on earth.
    In any "manual, of common sense" (as many say that if there were a little more common sense, the world would be better),
    to the rubric: "Check your knowledge" is heard quoting loudly: "Please make your profession the love for my life, I am alive"

    In general, many "philosophers" with many universities in my area, like to fool around, which is ok up to a degree of childhood but not rudeness.
    and sometimes I leave them at their "hot chestnut" stall, just to sell themselves "donuts."
    Is it encouraging to say that "a room that contains a bed is automatically bigger than the bed" without damaging our interlocutors' opinions?

    When I open textbooks to my grandchildren to help them with homework, I always panic because I see the government's curriculum platform, and generalized "madness or stupidity" induced (and I have examples), it is a "struggle" to be able to combine the education offered by the system with the human nature, in a way that will change a single gram, someday...the society.
    I end here, as a simple man, maybe really, all of us, though,
    “We are consciousness incarnated in stardust ...” Graham Hancock
    ...and maybe, all helping each other, is or will be more in time, a sign of proper intelligence.



    Socrates: "I know that I know nothing".

    I'm just saying ...
    And all this to be just human.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    This is a serious thread. For years I've pondered why (e.g.) someone with a PhD and a measured IQ of 180 might be just really dumb and unaware outside of their specialist field. We see this ALL the time.

    It's not about EQ (Emotional Intelligence) or SQ (Spiritual Intelligence). I think it's about the predominant vulnerability of almost all humans, whatever their IQ, EQ, SQ, age, culture, or level of education, to be victims of belief.

    And there may be two components to that:
    1. The susceptibility to being initially influenced to form a belief.
    2. The resistance to letting go of it once it's entrenched.
    A high intellect can paradoxically be a handicap, as extremely clever people are often very skilled at self-justifying whatever beliefs they have. A smart and articulate person will defend their beliefs strongly, self-reinforcing all the time.

    I'd be most interested in other members' views (and experiences!) about this.
    Those whom I have know with IQ over 170 have ALL been not the least bit “dumb” in terms of understanding. Yes their capacity for other traits such as courage, empathy, sensitivity, varied quite a bit, but their grasp of understanding whatever was presented to them was astounding.
    I noticed that they were also VERY quick to catch on, and tended to not overcomplicate things at all. They all preferred asking questions and researching to having to be right, which is actually a very boring endeavor for the very gifted. They were all rather hermetic and very choosy in who they spent time with.

    I propose that the stereotypes we hear about the brilliant are mostly bull****. Those who acquire celebrity are probably on the selfish narcissist side so they are no use in studying what being Really bright is really all about. Even studies about very very creative people can skew the understanding of what the majority of genius level intelligent people who mostly are NOT very creative are really like.
    Also, how many of the researchers had/have genius level intelligence? How can the less intelligent study the brainy ones anyway? :-)

    Ok so my point is, when these 170+ people I knew were presented with ideas, facts, beliefs, etc, they were all more adept at conversing about the topics than ANYONE with IQs at a lower level, including myself. That’s why I liked being around them so much, and got so spoiled and bored with people at my own level and lower.

    If this world was populated by ONLY people with this IQ range. THIS would be the beginning of a chance at utopia. At least they would have the mental capacity to identify and implement solutions. The world’s IQ level plunging is in my opinion the most deleterious problem of all, even worse than psychopaths being in charge. Of course this is probably what the psychopaths want, to exterminate the very brilliant. If the very gifted were encouraged to be courageous, loving, emotionally and spiritually mature… that would be the best solution to all our problems.

    I suspect that the IQ levels of between 120 - 170 are what people think of when they talk about gifted people. HA. This level, from what I have seen is the group who have terrible ego problems of needing to be right, of needing to feel important, who know they are not really at the mental top and perhaps want to be, and are rarely satisfied. They are often verbose, overcomplicating things, love jargon, convinced of their meager levels of superiority and condescending and most of all boring to be around.

    They are much more apt fo be stuck in a set of beliefs, because many don’t have the capacity to see alternative beliefs, they just don’t have the imagination. ALL the brightest people I knew did. (Even if they didn’t want to change) The only real debility of the super geniuses is that they might not be challenged enough with new ideas, because maybe they only know a few people at their level. From what I could see, they were all pretty starved to converse with equals.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I wonder what those who develop IQ tests would make of what they call they call in India "Masts" or the "God Mad".
    See: https://mehernagar.wordpress.com/meh...-god-mad-feel/
    They are reported to be spiritual devotees who live in states of bliss, though outwardly they appear to be quite mad and dysfunctional in worldly terms.
    ...Although they can transcend that madness and become fully functioning, enlightened beings.
    I think Amritanandamayi, who grew up uneducated and poverty stricken in a very poor, small village in India, may be one of the latter.
    https://amma.org/about/how-she-began
    In her youth she would sink into states of bliss and become unconscious of the outer world, leading the people in her village to think she had lost her wits.
    But she is accepted widely now as a modern day saint, probably being recognized as close to the status of "Avatar" as a woman can get in these patriarchal times.
    I sat in her lap once, as millions have done, and told her about my terrible flash-back LSD nightmares.
    She gave me a stick of sandalwood and told me to wet it, rub it vigorously to make a paste, and apply the paste to my forehead before bed.
    I did, and it worked--I never had another LSD nightmare again.
    Another time, I sat in the audience at a darshan while she went into trance and "became" Shiva (or perhaps it was Krishna--I don't remember now), and did an amazing sword dance on stage.
    On the same day, she alternated and "became" the Divine Mother, and sat cross-legged in absolute stillness and peace, radiating love and benevolence.
    This short, dumpy, very unathletic, homely Indian woman in her very restricting sari leaped and cavorted bare-footed around the stage brandishing two very sharp swords, roaring with laughter and singing at the top of her lungs, is a sight I will never forget.
    She went on dancing and cavorting far longer than I ever expected she would be able to physically but was none the worse for wear at all.
    Her energy and stamina were amazing.
    There is a type of intelligence, perhaps it is wisdom of the heart, that IQ tests cannot measure.
    Many "Masters", such as Gurdjieff, have taught that the best way for humans to evolve is to stay in balance, to keep the mind, the heart, the physical, and the higher centers balanced.
    Thus each center informs the other, so if one goes out of balance, the other centers are able to recognize, inform, and help to correct it.

    When I was in junior high, I was placed in the classes of students who had the highest IQs.
    There were 5 very brainy, nerdy types in these classes.
    They kept to themselves, seemed very stiff and serious, seldom spoke to anyone but each other and to the teachers.
    They obviously got a lot of satisfaction out of mastering various difficult subjects that were more challenging for the rest of us, but I don't think that really made up for what they lacked in other areas of their lives.
    The other 30 or so students in these classes were much more sociable, relaxed, compassionate and "well-adjusted".
    I used to envy the nerds for their intellectual prowess, but I never would have traded my own skill sets, which had to do with intuition, emotional intelligence, empathy, etc., for theirs.
    No doubt they went on to have very successful careers, but I think the 30 odd other students were probably more likely to have grown and developed in a much more balanced way, and may have been much better human beings in the long run.
    When I look at what modern day scientists have wrought for the rest of humanity with their "genius" IQs, I shudder at the tragic destiny they are trying to lead mankind toward.
    Last edited by onawah; 8th June 2021 at 05:50.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by mountain_jim (here)
    I was strongly influenced by the writings of Robert Anton Wilson in this area, and ways to become aware of one's Reality Tunnel self-programming and one's ongoing maintenance of one's cherished beliefs...

    So much so that I carry around a quote from RAW in my sig file here.

    Quote I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson
    https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/...-wilson-quotes



    My main tool in becoming aware of these programs and attempts to reprogram myself with more openness to evaluating things in an ongoing fashion were his concepts and methodologies and psychedelic experiments in my younger days.





    https://www.goodreads.com/author/quo...t_Anton_Wilson


    Quote Robert Anton Wilson quotes

    “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger: Die letzten Geheimnisse der Illuminaten oder An den Grenzen des erweiterten Bewusstseins

    “The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “...an optimistic mind-set finds dozens of possible solutions for every problem that the pessimist regards as incurable.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger: Die letzten Geheimnisse der Illuminaten oder An den Grenzen des erweiterten Bewusstseins


    “...when dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases. ”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger Volume I: Final Secret of the Illuminati


    “I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “We all see only that which we are trained to see.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Masks of the Illuminati


    “In order to eat, you have to be hungry. In order to learn, you have to be ignorant. Ignorance is a condition of learning. Pain is a condition of health. Passion is a condition of thought. Death is a condition of life.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Leviathan


    “under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “In conclusion, there is no conclusion. Things will go on as they always have, getting weirder all the time.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “...reality is always plural and mutable.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger Volume I: Final Secret of the Illuminati


    “We look for the Secret - the Philosopher's Stone, the Elixir of the Wise, Supreme Enlightenment, 'God' or whatever...and all the time it is carrying us about...It is the human nervous system itself.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger Volume I: Final Secret of the Illuminati


    “Human beings live in their myths. They only endure their realities.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “Is," "is," "is"—the idiocy of the word haunts me. If it were abolished, human thought might begin to make sense. I don't know what anything "is"; I only know how it seems to me at this moment.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Nature's God


    “Horror is the natural reaction to the last 5,000 years of history.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger 2: Down to Earth


    “It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminati Papers


    “Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. The entire web of culture and ‘progress,’ everything on earth that is man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of some man’s refusal to bow to Authority. We would own no more, know no more, and be no more than the first apelike hominids if it were not for the rebellious, the recalcitrant, and the intransigent. As Oscar Wilde truly said, ‘Disobedience was man’s Original Virtue.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “The normal is that which nobody quite is. If you listen to seemingly dull people very closely, you'll see that they're all mad in different and interesting ways, and are merely struggling to hide it.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Masks of the Illuminati


    “Human society as a whole is a vast brainwashing machine whose semantic rules and sex roles create a social robot.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Prometheus Rising


    “The fear of death is the beginning of slavery.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Golden Apple


    “When we meet somebody whose separate tunnel-reality is obviously far different from ours, we are a bit frightened and always disoriented. We tend to think they are mad, or that they are crooks trying to con us in some way, or that they are hoaxers playing a joke. Yet it is neurologically obvious that no two brains have the same genetically-programmed hard wiring, the same imprints, the same conditioning, the same learning experiences. We are all living in separate realities. That is why communication fails so often, and misunderstandings and resentments are so common. I say "meow" and you say "Bow-wow," and each of us is convinced the other is a bit dumb.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Prometheus Rising

    “Anyone in the United States today who isn't paranoid must be crazy.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminati Papers


    “The future is up for grabs. It belongs to any and all who will take the risk and accept the responsibility of consciously creating the future they want.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “Intelligence is the capacity to receive, decode and transmit information efficiently. Stupidity is blockage of this process at any point. Bigotry, ideologies etc. block the ability to receive; robotic reality-tunnels block the ability to decode or integrate new signals; censorship blocks transmission.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson
    How's this for prescience?

    Quote “But they can rule by fraud, and by fraud eventually acquire access to the tools they need to finish the job of killing off the Constitution.'

    'What sort of tools?'

    'More stringent security measures. Universal electronic surveillance. No-knock laws. Stop and frisk laws. Government inspection of first-class mail. Automatic fingerprinting, photographing, blood tests, and urinalysis of any person arrested before he is charged with a crime. A law making it unlawful to resist even unlawful arrest. Laws establishing detention camps for potential subversives. Gun control laws. Restrictions on travel. The assassinations, you see, establish the need for such laws in the public mind. Instead of realizing that there is a conspiracy, conducted by a handful of men, the people reason—or are manipulated into reasoning—that the entire population must have its freedom restricted in order to protect the leaders. The people agree that they themselves can't be trusted.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Eye in the Pyramid
    Great!!
    As you me too was influenced quite a lot by his writings, but not only him also McKenna, Leary, Lilly, Alli and so on.. I spent quite a lot of time reading about the 8 circuits and cybercraft which was just a metaphor ? for the century we are living on right now.

    I would like to share this quote (I am not so sure it is originally from Bob)
    "However we have strong forces to compete against. The first struggle we are involved with is one of the mind-body complex. Who will control our mind-bodies? Will it be the Aspirant, the one looking for a better life, or will it be the Controllers, the ones with the power and monies to mold our minds to their purposes? And will we nurture the emerging Changelings? Or do we let the Persecutors administer the Last Rite to our offspring? "

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "In the province of the mind, what is believed to be true is true, or becomes true within certain limits to be learned by experience and experiment." Dr.John Lilly

    IQ measurement is a tool used by the fools in power, to select, control and label (give titles) to the ones who believe and blindly follow in that system. It is nothing more than that.

    I am sure as the sun arises in the east every ordinary day, Tesla never submitted himself to such a foolishness.
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I'm utilizing information from the Micheal teachings in saying that soul age affects one's need and or desire for a belief system.

    Apparently older souls are less dependent on a need for rigid rule systems. Apparently young souls crave the structure belief systems provide.

    Young souls have just as much of a chance of developing a brain capable of genius and or high IQ capability, but they still need the structure of a belief system when it's all said and done.

    Also, I just wanted to bump this thread.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I'm utilizing information from the Micheal teachings in saying that soul age affects one's need and or desire for a belief system.

    Apparently older souls are less dependent on a need for rigid rule systems. Apparently young souls crave the structure belief systems provide.

    Young souls have just as much of a chance of developing a brain capable of genius and or high IQ capability, but they still need the structure of a belief system when it's all said and done.

    Also, I just wanted to bump this thread.
    That's BRILLIANT!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Pema Chödrön said this...



    “We think that if we just meditated enough or jogged enough or ate perfect food, everything would be perfect.
    But from the point of view of someone who is awake, that’s death.
    Seeking security or perfection, rejoicing in feeling confirmed and whole, self-contained and comfortable, is some kind of death.
    It doesn’t have any fresh air. There’s no room for something to come in and interrupt all that.
    We are killing the moment by controlling our experience.
    Doing this is setting ourselves up for failure, because sooner or later, we’re going to have an experience we can’t control: our house is going to burn down, someone we love is going to die, we’re going to find out we have cancer, a brick is going to fall out of the sky and hit us on the head, somebody’s going to spill tomato juice all over our white suit, or we’re going to arrive at our favorite restaurant and discover that no one ordered produce and seven hundred people are coming for lunch.”
    The trick is to keep exploring and not bail out, even when we find out that something is not what we thought.
    That’s what we’re going to discover again and again and again.
    Nothing is what we thought.
    Things are always in transition, if we could only realize it.
    Nothing ever sums itself up in the way that we like to dream about.
    The off-center, in-between state is an ideal situation, a situation in which we don’t get caught and we can open our hearts and minds beyond limit.
    It’s a very tender, nonaggressive, open-ended state of affairs.
    To stay with that shakiness—to stay with a broken heart, with a rumbling stomach, with the feeling of hopelessness and wanting to get revenge—that is the path of true awakening.
    Sticking with that uncertainty, getting the knack of relaxing in the midst of chaos, learning not to panic—this is the spiritual path.
    Things falling apart is a kind of testing and also a kind of healing.
    We think that the point is to pass the test or to overcome the problem, but the truth is that things don’t really get solved.
    They come together and they fall apart.
    Then they come together again and fall apart again.
    It’s just like that.
    The healing comes from letting there be room for all of this to happen: room for grief, for relief, for misery, for joy.”
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    An interesting vignette to prove the theme of this thread.

    This is Garry Kasparov, one of the very greatest chess players ever to live — and a Russian, to boot, though he now lives in New York. His IQ has been estimated at 185 to 190.

    There's something here about superhuman ability at least in one field of intelligence — but which fails totally in other aspects of figuring out what's really going on.

    https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/58397

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 28th April 2023 at 15:54.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    A few years ago, when I was an evolutionary psychologist (and editor of the journal in which this was published), I put forward an explanation for the phenomenon of 'clever sillies' - high IQ people who hold perversely wrong ideas that they defend with all their capacity for abstract and systeamtic thinking:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...Tz12U78Jx22VKQ

    (Text version of the whole article: https://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.c...ck-common.html

    While this is only a narrowly biological take on the phenomenon (i.e. it omits all spiritual considerations, which are very important) - the idea does seem to capture something of the quality of the current spectacular levels of silliness among the clever classes.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    That Gary Kasparov bit perfectly cues me to chirp what I've been itching to get around to adding here (especially after reading the thread's original post).

    Oh to avail broad spectrum aptitude tests.
    Having broad spectrum aptitude batteries of tests in common familiarity would help dispel the singular pecking order, as so often presented/conceived of by IQ tests, and would avail greater self awareness. They'd also serve as a useful optional metric to apply to all areas of endeavor, to help weigh suitability and contributions, by the relevant tests.

    While in a training institution, a part time tutor there took an interest in me, and, also being a part time worker in the Department of Work And Pensions building diagonally across the road, and having seen such a testing system over there, hidden at the bottom of a cupboard, she snuck it out for me, to let me have a go at some of the tests. This was about quarter a century ago, so my memory is a little hazy, but, if i recall correctly, the (over 30something) aptitude tests (which I'll include the scores of the tests I took and fairly reliably remember what my score on roughly) were :

    IQ test (familiar, comprised of three tests, Verbal Intelligence, Maths Intelligence, and Visual Intelligence.) [134 (90:120:180)]
    EQ Emotional Intelligence test [160]
    WQ Wisdom Quotient [150]
    Philosophy Aptitude Quotient [I forget, maybe something between 120 and 130]
    Psychological Aptitude Quotient [~ I forget if this were a high or low one]
    Psychiatric Aptitude Quotient [see how the insightfulness of this already further teasing out distinctions, a psychiatric quotient as well as psychological...shall see more of this as I continue.]
    Social Aptitude Quotient [70, my 2nd lowest. Consider how useful that is to know, aside my genius level emotional intelligence and wisdom]
    Interpersonal Aptitude Quotient
    Intrapersonal Aptitude Quotient
    Introspection Aptitude Quotient
    Ethical Aptitude Quotient [...]
    Moral Aptitude Quotient [iirc, one of Ethical and Moral was high, the other was fairly low, again, another very useful distinction to learn even exists, and to learn one has such a difference]
    Religious Aptitude Quotient
    Spiritual Aptitude Quotient
    Sporting Aptitude Quotient [60. I think I may have misunderstood the point of this one, to have scored so low. Hehehehe. My lowest.]
    Physics Aptitude Quotient
    Chemistry Aptitude Quotient
    Programming Aptitude Quotient [80]
    Musical Aptitude Quotient
    Artistic Aptitude Quotient
    Aesthetics Aptitude Quotient
    Design Aptitude Quotient
    Physiological Aptitude Quotient
    Physical Aptitude Quotient
    Dance Aptitude Quotient
    Mechanical Aptitude Quotient
    Electrical Aptitude Quotient
    Electronic Aptitude Quotient
    Sociological Aptitude Quotient
    Political Aptitude Quotient
    Anthropological Aptitude Quotient
    Biological Aptitude Quotient
    Botanical Aptitude Quotient
    Animal Care Aptitude Quotient [It was called something a bit different, I forget. And there were other animal related tests too.]
    ... And more.

    (I got to do well over the dozen of the tests... but I mostly just remembered the highs and lows... which is probably more important to learn anyway, contrast to being snug in the bellcurve "somewhere").

    Some of the tests required props and space unavailable to us at the time, and others we simply ran out of time, amidst the coursework we were supposed to be getting on with.

    There's also some (I say)~misguided interest out there to reduce all this back down to a singular pecking order again. Misses the point, misses the value, averages out the nuance back to a bigot's judgement hammer.

    If people would only see that such exist, even without taking any of such tests, would do wonders for our awareness. Many would no longer beat themselves up for low IQ, no longer devaluing themselves. Many would no longer succumb to a blinding obtuse arrogance from a high IQ score, no longer oblivious to their blind spots, no longer thinking themselves all capable. Many would find where they really shine, and be able to make better informed choices regarding what they'll do in life, how they can best contribute.

    It's one thing to "not get it" in some area, despite some other high aptitude, it's another, far better thing, to know one does "not get it".

    If anyone knows where such tests are available to take online, please do share with me. I've been harping on about this for over 2 decades (albeit crowded out among other things I harp on about, heh), and would love to help proliferate this around the world. If I recall correctly, there are some other lesser-complete ones out there, such as "9 intelligences".

    There are ways in such tests to counter "cheating" (though why would anyone cheat? To do so is to cheat yourself, even if one does have such sufficiently low wisdom and ethics to attempt cheat.) And such insights from the tests' questions can be applied on the fly, in a "judge by actions" sense, as well as a vast diversity of such tests could be continually developed to further undermine attempts to circumvent (like if cheating ever got incentivised by such tests becoming gate keepers for positions of power imbalance that attract the ruthless who feel they need power over others~~~), and a diversity would also keep the results more reliable, including by diminishing the effects of "100th monkey" etc.

    Then, if we had such tests commonplace out and about in the world, not hidden at the bottom of a cupboard, we'd be able to help the Sheldon Coopers and Gary Kasperovs of the world, gain better awareness of their weaknesses, not diminishing them, but bolstering their exceptional one-in-tens-of-millions high IQ, with a sturdier base of increased wisdom (regardless of innate/tested wisdom quotient), better able not to make so many mistakes oblivious to their weaknesses.

    If we had such tests commonplace out and about in the world, not hidden at the bottom of a cupboard, we'd be able to help the many whose names we otherwise never hear of, because they languish in obscurity, convinced they've nothing to offer, oblivious to more areas of self worth. Or perhaps worse, some who we do get to hear about, for whatever atrocities they commit, but might have otherwise positively contributed, had they been availed some metrics by which to help know their strengths and weaknesses better.

    Imagine, when we have such tests widespread aware of, if/where still including some form of "representative" in our poly-cameral democracies, how better we're able to determine from candidates who to include in our votes, and perhaps even dissuade some ill-suited candidates from even bothering. Perhaps even evolving the diversity of roles involved in our organisational "structures" and flows, availing more dynamic arrangements where those with ability more directly contribute to needs.

    I see so much potential to dispel unhelpful ignorances that impede and corrupt our systems. So much potential for unleashing healthy helpful human potential. If we only knew.

    -----

    P.S. >180 visual iq, 150 wisdom, 160 emotional intelligence, but only 90 verbal, is ever a challenge, a cruel frustration to endure. Sympathies to any else suffering likewise, strengths hidden behind small apertures of weaknesses. I suppose it's a lifelong learning experience, a boon, to be less presumptive about other people's abilities, not able to judge what gifts they have within, from what aptitudes or frustrations they show. More patiently receptive to what more unseen. Anyway, I hope I managed to convey the idea adequately succinctly and effectively enough.

    P.P.S. Oh, one quick anecdote yet... When speaking to my new neighbor over the garden wall for the first time, after having written a letter about the situation we both found ourselves in, he offered words to the effect of that I must be very intelligent, based on that letter, towit I reflexively uttered something like "too smart in some ways, far not smart enough in others".

    P.P.P.S and while I've clicked Edit to mend an irksome typo, I may as well also add...
    And I'll have to come back to make a 2nd reply focusing more on the belief side of the equation. I've got oodles of rant in me about that too. Hopefully insightful useful tractionable rant, not just cathartic windbagging. ;D
    Last edited by Digit; 28th April 2023 at 18:57. Reason: typo, and 3rd ps
    If ignorance is bliss, give me agony. (&, The ignorance that dies, is not you.)
    Time flies when you’re not in pain or prison. We are psychenauts, and we are not afraid.
    Educate yourself so you may educate others.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I challenge the thread that 'belief' is more fundamental and common than anyone really wants to think about. Who really works from first principles? We work off belief as creatures. Science is mostly a belief system taken for granted rather than re-proved by each person who uses or benefits from it.

    This part is not a challenge though, it's my observation of intelligence. Where we learn intelligence they rarely if never teach critical thinking. This isn't a bad thing, citation is the critical thinking of generations before us. We're not all Joseph Fourier or Isaac Newton. University learning, right up to and including Ph.D. level, are citation based. You're using the best minds from hundreds of years of work.

    I think 'intelligent' people are at a disadvantage because citation is a type of obedience, be it for all the right reasons in higher learning. 'Smart' people are flattered and seduced by higher education.

    People who watch television or listen to the hypnotizing tones of Radio 4 are also at a disadvantage. Hypnotism Quotient?

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I agree with your statement, Bill.

    To a certain degree we are all victims of belief, often without realizing it at all.

    It has taken me years to 'unlearn' a lot of the things I learned in my youth. Wisdom, for example, does not come from having a high IQ, it comes from life experiences and from having an open mind when it comes to processing these experiences.

    I recently had a discussion about the current situation with an acquaintance who has a PhD in biology. He took the jab despite his high IQ, despite everything he knows about science and scientific requirements as far as developing a new vaccine is concerned. He understands the c.- jab is not a vaccine at all, but still he took it. I just didn't understand and asked him why on earth he of all people would willingly take that risk.

    He had discussed it with his wife who also has a PhD in biology and they both thought - and that's where the subject of belief comes in - the government would not advocate it unless it was safe. Both of them just couldn't imagine the government would not have our best interests at heart. That's a belief we usually all learn in our formative years. We are all taught we are living in a democracy and we vote for the people who will look after our health (we all have health insurance in Germany), who will look after our education (still free in Germany and still decent enough in my youth but having become atrociously bad since then ) and who will make sure there is social justice in society (quite good in the 60es and 70es and then slowly but surely declining).

    Once you see through things and wake up to the reality of things you realize that that's all an illusion, but letting go of that illusion is extremely difficult, at least initially, because especially as an intellectual person you can find all kinds of arguments to hold on to your old belief system.

    That's why there are still some highly intelligent people working in political parties on a low level who have no idea what is really going on. They still genuinely believe they can change things within their party and within the political system because they simply cannot grasp the fact that they, along with everybody else, are being manipulated in such a nefarious way as we can currently see (if we have eyes to see).

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