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Thread: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    ...Deconstructing the "Alt-Right" phrase is a useful exercise. According to Merriam-Webster:...
    I like your thinking but logic in reasoning hasn't been working recently. What I think the definition would have/could have/should have been will only get me into trouble

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    United States Avalon Member Mark/Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Gracy May (here)
    It’s not about racism Mark, it’s about ideals.

    And acceptance, or none thereof, of other ideals.
    Could you expand on that please? Are you talking about this:

    Quote Since the Mainstream Media (MSM) has elevated the AltRight to mainstream awareness, members of the AltRight believe that they are the only part of the community and elevate their concerns above those of people who do not believe the same as they do about some issues of global and national importance.

    And those things often generally have to do with racial issues at their heart, be they about migration, so-called communism or whatever issues they call Left or Progressive. They have to do with the belief that Western Civilization is threatened, that it is being destroyed or undermined somehow, when Western Civilization is really and truly morphing and evolving just as it always has and just as all civilizations and cultures do over time. Every generation in our times has experienced this kind of shift not just as the global situation has changed and the world has become "smaller", but as communications technology has become ubiquitous and what goes on all over the world is available to us all, 24/7.
    I'm being very specific, here. I'm referring to some of the underlying reasons. "Racial issues" is not implying that people are racist if that is what you are inferring in my meaning.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    ...Deconstructing the "Alt-Right" phrase is a useful exercise. According to Merriam-Webster:...
    I like your thinking but logic in reasoning hasn't been working recently. What I think the definition would have/could have/should have been will only get me into trouble
    LOL why? Do you think that racism is against white people now? You can say that here if you believe it.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    No, Mark you've never called me white supremacist! Or alt right! Wasn't accusing you

    Others, who shall remain nameless, however...

    Thx for the reply. Will get back to ya little later when I free up some time.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    I never ever saw myself as "right" or "left" ... as some-one not from USA ... I have listened to many sides and the "far-left" are the ones that get HUGE Big Tech support Youtube, Twitter, Facebook etc. to serve Agenda 2030 "The Great Reset" ... IMAGINE if they (Big Tech) did that with far-right ... I mean literally censoring many alt-left to the extreme ... but they do not ... everyone with brains can see that 24/7


    The percentage of the alt-right demanding censorship of their opponents is near zero ... imagine they did ... with help from Youtube, Twitter, Facebook etc. how would the alt-left react?
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 2nd May 2021 at 22:15.
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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    ..
    LOL why? Do you think that racism is against white people now? You can say that here if you believe it.
    I never said that, I was talking about trying to survive in a post-truth world. Read it again because I'm not sure where you got that from. Those 20th century identities are fun but meh. What I'm trying to say is truth has broken down, I feel like you're trying to fix the definition of a word that the press have never used in the right context, and is a toxic tar-brush. Its job is not to categorise in good faith, but to mark someone or some group as unsocial and unacceptable.

    Take the problems in some English areas with Muslim rape gangs. The police pretended this problem wasn't there (and still do), not wanting to be tarred with a toxic brush of racism, so they glossed over it, turned the white victims into criminals. Yet the progressive media, not being brave enough to be honest about a problem, end up blocking the efforts of a Muslim activist lawyer Nazir Afzal who reopened the case of a Muslim grooming gang in Rochdale. There's more about this in this linked post (link). As I said there, its almost as if some people believe all men of Pakistani heritage are implicated and feel they need to protect them, but this is not fair and the guilty are a very small percent. So lets have the truth out for the sake of the innocent if not the victims. Their cowardice is failing everyone. But no, instead you get called alt-right. It's a corruption of truth to ignore nuances

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    So even if they (individual Libertarians) are not racist or AltRight, the belief that all big government is bad keeps things from changing at the societal level
    Please expand this Mark because I don't understand that statement.
    A Neo-nazi believes that big government that supports equality across the board for all racial and ethnic populations is bad and so will make decisions that support continuing ethnic domination of Aryan-descended whites.


    As per my earlier example, someone who doesn't believe in race-mixing, will make decisions that stop that from happening. That often means stopping things at the highest levels first, then at the state or local level or the other way around. Same thing with rules and laws against homosexuality or any type of behavior or way of being that does not comport with certain cultural and societal beliefs held by members of sub-cultures within a nation.

    Also per my earlier example, redlining in neighborhoods had to be outlawed at the national level because, in America, it was a national issue. The same thing with job discrimination and access to resources. Many government programs that went to whites in America also did not apply to blacks, things like farm loans, even the GI Bill, black soldiers often were stopped from getting them. Does that clarify the statement any?
    Actually it doesn't. Because before you mentioned the term 'Redlining' I had no idea what it meant - remember I said I was apolitical, and I'm not from America. So it should come as no surprise that I didn't know what it meant. Having read what it means I am 100% anti-redlining, it is literally disgusting behaviour!

    Neo-nazis are an incredibly small percentage of the voting demographic are they not? Who cares what they believe. I would think the point is that 'big government talk a load of crap' far more pertinent.

    You think that the highest levels of society are probably racist and continuing their white supremacist doctrines from on high. They may well be, they are ignorant narrow-minded ****ers any way you choose to look at it.

    I am going out on a limb here, a potentially precarious one. Did you perhaps lose a very promising relationship because her parents held more conservative viewpoints?

    I've mentioned I was apolitical, I'm also completely aracist, (I may have just invented that word), I never understood it, the entire concept that the shade of ones skin could determine their worth -well it's ludicrous.

    An Italian philosopher* once wrote, and I paraphrase because for the life of me I cannot find the origianal quote, "With the mingling of races comes increasing life and vigour". That is actually a theory I ascribe to. It is the opposite of inbreeding. And the sooner we are all one colour, one culture (broadly speaking) then our (superficial) differences fade away. The globalists worst nightmare I suspect.

    ---

    *I think the quote was attributed to Leone Levi.

    Despite the subject title - The-AltRight-is-NOT-the-whole-of-the-Alternative-Community the discussion seems to be mostly about racism now. It seems to me you have a VERY UNDERSTANDABLE chip on your shoulder.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    It might just be something humans do, to create in-groups and out-groups. Another tool used by savvy folks to divide and conquer.
    Of course it is, you don't even need to be savvy. Kids do it for goodness sake!

    And when the witch gets hauled up to the burning pyre the crowd cheer, in relief - that it is not them! All petty ego ****!

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    United States Avalon Member Mark/Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Despite the subject title - The-AltRight-is-NOT-the-whole-of-the-Alternative-Community the discussion seems to be mostly about racism now. It seems to me you have a VERY UNDERSTANDABLE chip on your shoulder.
    This is just the beginning of the discussion, hopefully. And, folks are still stuck on discussing my use of the term in my opening statement.

    Hopefully we can move into a more nuanced understanding of the dichotomy Alt-Right and Alt-Left.

    If it is not defined or inadequately defined, who better to take a stab at what this community truly is.

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    United States Avalon Member Mark/Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Neo-nazis are an incredibly small percentage of the voting demographic are they not? Who cares what they believe. I would think the point is that 'big government talk a load of crap' far more pertinent.

    You think that the highest levels of society are probably racist and continuing their white supremacist doctrines from on high. They may well be, they are ignorant narrow-minded ****ers any way you choose to look at it.
    No, I don't. As I said earlier, I think racism should be applied to a very narrow range of personal and systemic variables.

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    I am going out on a limb here, a potentially precarious one. Did you perhaps lose a very promising relationship because her parents held more conservative viewpoints?
    No. What makes you say that?

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    I've mentioned I was apolitical, I'm also completely aracist, (I may have just invented that word), I never understood it, the entire concept that the shade of ones skin could determine their worth -well it's ludicrous.
    Where are you from?

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    An Italian philosopher* once wrote, and I paraphrase because for the life of me I cannot find the origianal quote, "With the mingling of races comes increasing life and vigour". That is actually a theory I ascribe to. It is the opposite of inbreeding. And the sooner we are all one colour, one culture (broadly speaking) then our (superficial) differences fade away. The globalists worst nightmare I suspect.
    What you've just described is the nightmare scenario for entire groups of people. But I hear you, man. It would certainly be a different world.

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Despite the subject title - The-AltRight-is-NOT-the-whole-of-the-Alternative-Community the discussion seems to be mostly about racism now. It seems to me you have a VERY UNDERSTANDABLE chip on your shoulder.
    The world and white people have actually been, on the whole, very good to me, Ewan.

    If cops pull me over or engage me, which they have many times - and which has happened in Germany and at the Canada/US border as well as in personal vehicles and on the street - as soon as I start talking they relax.

    If you perceive that I, of all black people, have a chip on my shoulder, I have to believe that you haven't engaged with very many people of color from the United States at all.

    I think that what you perceive is not a chip, but an education. A LOT of books, hours spent in classrooms, teaching information about history, about geography, consuming hours of data and sources seeking the truth.

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    Avalon Member gord's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    I just think of myself as anti unaccountable authority. Whether that's seen as alt-right, alt-left, or libertarian, I don't care. It fits them all.
    The only place a perfect right angle ever CAN be, is the mind.

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    United States Avalon Member Mark/Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by gord (here)
    I just think of myself as anti unaccountable authority. Whether that's seen as alt-right, alt-left, or libertarian, I don't care. It fits them all.
    I love that. And, in essence, that is something we can ALL agree on.

    We should work forward from a space like this, to conceive of how in the world we can do what's necessary, across these illusory divisions, to find common cause to move forward together. That's all I'm about. But the resistance to even the conversation is deeply engrained in our collective planetary societies.

    I would bet right now so many people are afraid to like anything on this thread or even to comment. When this is key to any of us moving forward and that - those who can and do move forward - not be some remnant of global trauma survivors running from a global control system.
    Last edited by Mark/Rahkyt; 3rd May 2021 at 13:56.

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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    I would bet right now so many people are afraid to like anything on this thread or even to comment. When this is key to any of us moving forward and that not be some remnant of global trauma survivors running from a global control system.
    Not me, this is a breath of fresh air. Thank you.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    RE language being broken: it's a very,very serious problem, and I could write endlessly on it. Certain words and phrases have been bandied about so much that they've almost completely lost their meaning. Words like "nazi" and "fascist" and "communist" for example, have been used to merely describe anyone who disagrees (by both side, in fairness), and have nothing whatsoever to do with their real meanings. The whole thing confused me for a while. I've had to go the dictionary more than once to make sure I really understood them! No joke! What it is, basically, is a giant gaslighting competition (you're a nazi! no, you're a nazi! no, you are!....)
    I like how you use RE above. I do that too, is it a thing now? Do we all do it?

    Agreed. When a term is used that way to describe large groups of people it is always a problem. I've experienced that for an entire lifetime so I get it. That's what the MSM does. The purpose it serves is to reset the normative culture in the United States and to bring to the front perspectives and realities that have been de-centered traditionally.

    That is uncomfortable and ugly. When people who have been disenfranchised get a voice and people get to hear it, you hear from all kinds of people like that, from uneducated to educated. And that is where we are.

    Folks venting and upholding unsustainable and binary positions, finding others like them and figuring out the efficacy of their systems of belief and whether or not they are viable. In many cases they are not, for a global population or even local populations seeking a way to move forward together.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Not only that, but an entire new language has been invented right before our eyes, and very few people truly understand it. Certain words and phrases have been co-opted and redefined, and are being used whimsically by people who don't realize what they're actually saying, agreeing with, or disagreeing with. Equity, inclusion, and diversity are good examples. So is white supremacy.
    How else do you define and talk about things that have been pushed under the rug for decades? Except by redefining words and using them more broadly or to express specific ideas? I guess we really could make words up for stuff. That might veer off into the ludicrous and subvert the entire idea of helping society to evolve to become more expressive of multiple perspectives, though.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Here's an example: When I was a mod, there was concern about the Q material because in some circles it had earned Avalon a reputation as a "white supremacist" space. I was horrified by that! We all were! It's partially why it was made private. Back then I wasn't aware of the newly co-opted version of white supremacy, which was basically assigned to anyone who held enlightenment values, had national pride, voted for Trump, and didn't subscribe to notions of collective guilt. See, I thought these people were talking about real honest to God white supremacists, and I voted to make that thread private because of that misunderstanding. Looking back I feel it was a mistake. I was just naive and uninformed. And many people are! Very few people have the time, desire, or will to read about postmodernism, critical theory, marxism, deconstructionism, and so on. And very few are willing to listen! And if they do, they look at you like your nuts. Believe me, I've tried You shoulda seen my Mom's face (a Biden supporter)...priceless.
    You're a great storyteller, Mike. Thanks for sharing that relevant happenstance that those who were present for that can easily remember.

    This 'newly co-opted version of white supremacy in italics' is not new. It comes from the perspective that we are all ignorant to that which we do not know. I personally believe that racism is very specific a word and should be used to describe encounters and systemic variables that have specific outcomes, whether intended or unintended. The way the word is being used is way too encompassing of folks who just don't know any better.

    Now, as far as examples of direct enmity that can be expressed and that can be pointed to? Those are no-brainers.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    "Alt right" is another phrase that has been bandied about liberally, so much so that I'm not even clear what it means anymore. I'm glad Mark brought it up because maybe we can nail it down here in this thread. I've been called "alt right" here. I've also been called a "white supremacist". And it's hard to even begin to defend yourself when you can't be sure the person using that type of language even knows what they're saying, or when you yourself are confused about those words as well. This is what I would call a postmodern problem, which is a loss of logic and coherence in favor of the freedom to use words in ways that can mean whatever you want when it's convenient to do so.

    Am I alt right? I would have never assigned myself that label in a million years. Ditto "white supremacist". But the bar has been set so low now that you're bound to trip over it. In other words, the co-opted meanings of those words now apply to anyone that isn't "woke". So if you value enlightenment values, are proud of the country, don't subscribe to notions of collective guilt, believe in biology etc...well then you fall under the umbrella of these words and phrases according to the prevailing "wisdom". And you're ostracized, cancelled, ridiculed, so forth.

    So much more to say but this post is already too long. More later. Thanks again Mark for opening up the dialogue.
    I've never called you Alt-Right or white supremacist. That I can recall, anyway. That's really a thing in general, Mike, in regards to language and how it is used. We all use words we may not necessarily know all the means of, or even the direct meanings of some of them sometimes and we hope that we get it right, contextually! I know as a write and poet I often use words creatively, in order to increase the metaphoric or visual expanse I'm attempting to communicate, but it is a very real thing that we cannot often be certain that we know what anybody else understands in the words we say!

    Why would you call it postmodern?

    That bar you speak of is one for the game Limbo, right? Let's see how low we can go!

    And that is an old trope, as well. Want me to talk about my experiences in that arena? Being stereotyped? It is certainly not new, from my perspective. It might just be something humans do, to create in-groups and out-groups. Another tool used by savvy folks to divide and conquer.


    I would say that in creative endeavors it's ok to use words however one chooses. That's more art than science. But when describing our collective reality, in dialogue that aspires to be productive, we have to be playing some version of the same game. Language must be precise. It's the only way to have coherent dialogue. For example, in this thread, if we can't agree on - at least roughly - what "alt right" means, it's going to be impossible to move forward in any kind of sensible way.

    That's just this thread. Now imagine an entire world that's using language sort of willy-nilly, pasting meanings onto already existing words while removing the original meanings, constructing entire modes of thought and theories around those words, applying enormous pressure to the populace to accept those manufactured, ideologically addled words, and expecting them to even know what the heck they're talking about while using them...all at a breakneck pace and while everything is on the line. You get chaos. You get what we're seeing now.

    The point I was trying to make in my original post is that the postmodern neo-marxists (which is how I would describe the very radical element of the woke) see the world as a zero sum game, and are weaponizing language to gain power. They only see the world thru the lens of power; science, linguistics, reason, rationality are all secondary. I think we cede ground to these radicals when we're too casual with language.

    So before we move forward, I propose we at least try to agree on what exactly is "alt right"?

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    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    The Replacement Rate in European countries and the white birth rate in the United States and Canada has been low for decades now and has been getting lower, so all of the drama and the pain of this shift in Demography has been expressed here in the Alternative Community from a place of fear. A place of fear for something that has to do with the maintenance of a false racial reality that was created in the first place in order to divide and conquer, something this community as a whole is supposed to be against, or, at least, has rhetorically stated as much, seeking a global populist movement against those who have sought to successfully do what is currently being attempted to us all.
    You mentioned Red Ice in your first post Mark; I do miss the old Red Ice that used to be about history mysteries, alternative science and elite control. I ended my sub when it changed direction.

    I'll just give you my perspective on the migrant crisis that exploded in 2015, as I was in Italy at the time and saw first-hand what was going on. It did not arise organically; it was engineered and funded, and the root of it was people trafficking and slave labour. This was well known by many who joined the dots together and it was this that shifted European politics to the right.

    Some interesting facts were gleaned from the BBC news; one was that the traffickers were earning nearly £600 million (approx. 900 million USD in 2015) that year from the illegal sea crossings. However, the traffickers' earnings didn't end there, as I'll expand on that below. Also the BBC said that the average fare for the illegal crossing was 3000 euros. You have to ask yourself how people in dire poverty came up with that sum of money.

    The Italian press reported that the illegal arrivals were placed in hostels for processing, but many disappeared. I learnt that they would be helped to move further up the country and provided with work. Able-bodied men worked illegally in agriculture and factories, both with very poor conditions and accommodation; the prettiest women in prostitution. It was odd coming from Britain to see pairs of women in very short skirts in lay-bys at the side of the road in the middle of the day; a few years earlier they were all white European, from 2015 they were mainly African. The rest worked as illegal street sellers and beggars; in our small local town they were regularly seen piling out of the back of a van in the morning. Few gave them money as we knew that most of their earnings went to organised crime.

    From what I gather they would have to earn a set amount of money to move up the country and to cross the border, to France, Switzerland or Austria. They would have to keep earning for organised crime gangs until they reached their place of choice.

    Italians were naturally shocked at what was going on. They have a strong sense of their unique culture and let's face it, that's what we travel to Italy to experience. We travel to France to experience French culture, to Greece to experience Greek culture and so forth. Whilst I don't agree with extreme nationalism, I don't see what's wrong with pride in your history, shared stories and culture but that is being eroded in Europe, particularly in northern Europe.

    I have a strong sense of belonging to Britain, with its mysterious prehistory, its rich folklore and our wry humour. I was also fortunate to grow up in a city with a large Indian population that enjoys very good race relations in comparison with other cities and it's always a pleasure to go back there. Let's face it, go back far enough and we all have immigrant ancestors.

    If the migrant crisis had been as before, a trickle instead of a flood, I don't think that rampant nationalism wouldn't have arisen. Yes, the European birth rate had been in decline, but we were always told by the Left that the world was overpopulated...

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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Gekko (here)
    Not me, this is a breath of fresh air. Thank you.
    Thank you Gekko, I don't mind standing alone, but if I don't have to, company is good. Blessings.

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    Lightbulb Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    • maybe we can sum it up (simplify) like this:
    The "Alt-Left" has SOME far-left extremists but overall the vast majority are not like that ... the "Alt-Right" has SOME far-right extremists but overall the vast majority are not like that.

    Now my mass psychology analyses: People can genuine be fearful being accused to be "associated" with extremists ... this can happen on both sides (Alt-Left & Alt-Right) ... The big difference in both situations is: how the MASS BRAINWASHING MEDIA plays a major role or not.

    If you can proof MSM are the ones who are guilty to demonize ALL people in the Alt-Right with daily excessive (stupid) generalizations & misrepresentations on purpose ... but NOT with Alt-Left using similar tactics & mind games & framing & controlling the narrative ... Sooooo many left-leaning people assume/believe that all Big Tech & all Mainstream Media does "not influence" them meanwhile wanting to know what "the masses" think AFTER being brainwashed 24/7 (mass conditioning) ... aka collectivism & mob-rule psychology.

    Imagine if it was in reverse ... if the mass-brainwashing by MSM on an unprecedented scale was done to protect the Alt-Right but viciously demonize the Alt-Left (as we now have with Alt-Right) somehow most people do NOT want to see it what is happening every day!
    • How far can you go with pushing the "guilty by association" mind games?
    Any generalization for or against is not doing any justice to the full spectrum of the (unfiltered) truth! ... And MSM networks has shown over and over they do not give a damn.

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
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    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 3rd May 2021 at 15:35.
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I would say that in creative endeavors it's ok to use words however one chooses. That's more art than science. But when describing our collective reality, in dialogue that aspires to be productive, we have to be playing some version of the same game. Language must be precise. It's the only way to have coherent dialogue. For example, in this thread, if we can't agree on - at least roughly - what "alt right" means, it's going to be impossible to move forward in any kind of sensible way.
    I am so down with where you're coming from right now, Mike. Yes! Let's do exactly that. I left a definition above, would you agree with it? Would you dispute some aspects of it? Should some so-called Alt-Right be further codified into increasingly specific distinctions.

    And why the hell is there an Alt-Right without a good definition of an Alt-Left? How is that even possible? I read a few articles yesterday in mainstream venues about how the Alt-Left isn't even a thing. And, when I looked closely at the definition I found in the Urban Dictionary, it is woefully inadequate. It looked like the opinion of some teenager who saw that Alt-Left wasn't there and just wrote something up to get his 15 minutes - or however long that definition remains so simplistic - of Internet fame.



    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    That's just this thread. Now imagine an entire world that's using language sort of willy-nilly, pasting meanings onto already existing words while removing the original meanings, constructing entire modes of thought and theories around those words, applying enormous pressure to the populace to accept those manufactured, ideologically addled words, and expecting them to even know what the heck they're talking about while using them...all at a breakneck pace and while everything is on the line. You get chaos. You get what we're seeing now.
    I see your point and it is true. But there are a lot of people engaged in this broadening of definitions. As long as we continue to dispute the means of the discussion, the terms of the discussion and the words that we use in the discussion, how can we have a discussion? Or rather, when? At what point are we going to get to the crux of the matter and define in mutually acceptable ways, how we can use these words to manifest, in the real world, a succinct, mutually agreeable way of presenting an alternative viewpoint to those of the controller cabals?

    Is that even possible at this point, anyway?

    What would it take to bring folks who are aligned and who share a desire to live unencumbered by kill shot vaccines and a global panopticonical surveillance system?

    I wonder, sometimes, if there is even the will to do so. As evidenced by this thread and others, there are those even here in Avalon who don't want a discussion. Who just want to create a world where those of their viewpoint exist alone, to rail against everyone with perspectives they view to be inimical to their own. There is little tolerance for dissent among those who feel unsafe in their bodies and minds and who lash out unreasonably and in a reactive manner against others.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    The point I was trying to make in my original post is that the postmodern neo-marxists (which is how I would describe the very radical element of the woke) see the world as a zero sum game, and are weaponizing language to gain power. They only see the world thru the lens of power; science, linguistics, reason, rationality are all secondary. I think we cede ground to these radicals when we're too casual with language.

    So before we move forward, I propose we at least try to agree on what exactly is "alt right"?
    Where is your proof that the postmodern neo-marxists see the world as a zero-sum game. I don't disbelieve you, but I get the impression that folks just want to get along to go along and many aren't interested in taking pieces of the pie from others, but rather increasing the size of the pie. I would state and can bring lost of proof to the table that those considered the Alt-Right see the world as a zero sum game. All who follow capitalism as a religion see the world as a zero-sum game. All who benefit from the current economic and social system in the USA and other Western nations, who see others unlike them coming in who also want to benefit, see the world as a zero-sum game as well.

    Here is Wikipedia's take:

    Quote "Alt-right", an abbreviation of alternative right, refers to a loosely connected far-right, white nationalist movement. A largely online phenomenon, the alt-right originated in the United States during the 2010s, although it has since established a presence in various other countries. The term is ill-defined, having been used in different ways by various self-described "alt-rightists", media commentators, and academics. Groups which have been identified as alt-right also espouse white supremacism, white separatism, right-wing populism, anti-immigration, racism, anti-communism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism, Holocaust denial, xenophobia, anti-intellectualism, antifeminism, homophobia, and Islamophobia.

    In 2010, the American white nationalist Richard B. Spencer launched The Alternative Right webzine. His "alternative right" was influenced by earlier forms of American white nationalism, as well as paleoconservatism, the Dark Enlightenment, and the Nouvelle Droite. His term was shortened to "alt-right" and popularised by far-right participants of /pol/, the politics board of web forum 4chan. It came to be associated with other white nationalist websites and groups, including Andrew Anglin's Daily Stormer, Brad Griffin's Occidental Dissent, and Matthew Heimbach's Traditionalist Worker Party. Following the 2014 Gamergate controversy, the alt-right made increasing use of trolling and online harassment to raise its profile. In 2015, it attracted broader attention—particularly through coverage on Steve Bannon's Breitbart News—due to alt-right support for Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign. On being elected, Trump disavowed the movement. Attempting to move from a web-based to a street-based movement, Spencer and other alt-rightists organized the August 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, which faced significant anti-fascist opposition. After this, the movement began to decline.

    The alt-right is a biologically racist movement promoting a form of far-right identity politics for European Americans. Part of its membership supports tight immigration restrictions to ensure a continued white majority in the U.S. Others call for the breakup of the country to form a white separatist ethno-state in North America. Some alt-rightists seek to make white nationalism socially respectable in the U.S. while others, known as the "1488" scene, adopt openly white supremacist and neo-Nazi stances with the intent to shock and provoke. Some alt-rightists are antisemitic, promoting a conspiracy theory that there is a Jewish plot to bring about white genocide, though other alt-rightists view most Jews as members of the white race. The alt-right is anti-feminist, advocates for a more patriarchal society, and intersects with the men's rights movement and the online manosphere. Alt-rightists generally support anti-interventionist and isolationist foreign policies alongside economic protectionism. Individuals aligned with many of the alt-right's ideas but not its white nationalism have been termed "alt-lite".

    The alt-right has distinguished itself from earlier forms of white nationalism through its largely online presence and its heavy use of irony and humor, particularly through the promotion of Internet memes like Pepe the Frog. Membership is overwhelmingly white and male, with academic and anti-fascist observers linking its growth to deteriorating living standards and prospects, anxieties about the place of white masculinity, and anger at increasingly visible leftist movements such as Black Lives Matter. Groups using the "alt-right" label have been characterized as hate groups, while alt-right material has contributed to the radicalization of white men responsible for various far-right murders and terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 2014. Opposition to the alt-right has come from many areas of the political spectrum, including socialists, liberals, and conservatives. Critics charge that the term "alt-right" is merely a rebranding of white supremacism.
    Considering that there are those who accept a definition like this proudly, how would you shift it? Or, would you say that many people who are considered to be Alt-Right are something else altogether?
    Last edited by Mark/Rahkyt; 3rd May 2021 at 14:17.

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    Lightbulb Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    • When the Alt-Left is accused to be influenced by far-left extremists (like AntiFa & some BLM leaders) you can be assured that almost all Mainstream Media like: CNN, MSNBC, Politico, Vice, CBS, ABC, Washington Post, New York Times etc. etc. will not repeat that accusation (or insinuation) over and over and over and over and over again!
    • When the Alt-Right is accused to be influenced by far-right extremists (like real Neo-Nazis) you can be assured that almost all Mainstream Media like: CNN, MSNBC, Politico, Vice, CBS, ABC, Washington Post, New York Times etc. etc. WILL repeat that accusation (or insinuation) over and over and over and over and over again!
    So if you get labeled/framed "Alt Right" (knowing you are not) read the above again and tell me how that makes you feel? ... knowing how the mass-media works 24/7.

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    May 3rd, 2021
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 3rd May 2021 at 15:31.
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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    You mentioned Red Ice in your first post Mark; I do miss the old Red Ice that used to be about history mysteries, alternative science and elite control. I ended my sub when it changed direction.
    That was the last episode I watched, in 2014. I loved it as well, it was an excellent source of information.

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    I'll just give you my perspective on the migrant crisis that exploded in 2015, as I was in Italy at the time and saw first-hand what was going on. It did not arise organically; it was engineered and funded, and the root of it was people trafficking and slave labour. This was well known by many who joined the dots together and it was this that shifted European politics to the right.
    Thank you for this first-hand experience. It is much better and clearer than observing at an extreme distance and trying to parse through talking head opinions and inflammatory internet articles and videos.

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    If the migrant crisis had been as before, a trickle instead of a flood, I don't think that rampant nationalism wouldn't have arisen. Yes, the European birth rate had been in decline, but we were always told by the Left that the world was overpopulated...
    Thank you for sharing all of that information. I've never read it presented so clearly and soberly. What you are describing is sad for those who have to take such measures in order to live a better life.

    As you can imagine, the origins of the problems that make people want to leave their countries come from history. I'm sure you're aware of colonial history so I don't have to go into too much detail as to why people want to migrate to European countries that have profited from material extraction from their nations.

    The belligerent nationalism is a predictable side effect as everything that is happening now was foreseen and expected to happen. The Left lied. I've shared this a couple of times recently:


    It is understandable but entirely counter to all of human history that people are isolated, or that cultures remain the same forever. It's never happened and never will, because cultures are always evolving and engagement with other cultures tends to result in cultural assimilation and transfer of artifacts, mentifacts and sociofacts. In our global society, it was only a matter of time that the need for young bodies in the northern European countries to carry on the business of society would result in mass migration. It sounds like there are very stable business interests behind this in Europe. It would be interesting to find out where that money was coming from.

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    Default Re: The AltRight is NOT the whole of the Alternative Community

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