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Thread: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

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    Default Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    I put this in the quake area because this bridge isn't cracking because everything is stable, Everyone knows about the New Madrid fault. This isn't an easy fix either, especially if things continue to move below.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/di...sissippi-river

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    I've been over that bridge, and it really is massive. That's going to cause a LOT of problems.

    Quote Posted by pyrangello (here)
    I put this in the quake area because this bridge isn't cracking because everything is stable, Everyone knows about the New Madrid fault. This isn't an easy fix either, especially if things continue to move below.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/di...sissippi-river
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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    U.S. gets 'C-,' faces $2.59 trillion in infrastructure needs over 10 years

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States faces a $2.59 trillion shortfall in infrastructure needs that requires a massive jump in government spending to address crumbling roads, bridges and other programs, according to an assessment by an engineers group issued on Wednesday. Source

    West Seattle Bridge has been a headache for some time.

    West Seattle Bridge closure, 1 year later: 5 things happening now

    Throughout the day, we’ve been observing the one-year anniversary of the West Seattle Bridge’s sudden, shocking closure. One last report as promised: So what’s happening now?
    Source

    Remembering the collapse of the I-35W Mississippi River bridge almost 14 years ago (August 1, 2007, killing 13 people and injuring 145).


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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    This is going to add yet another huge disruption in supply distribution. Get prepared fast, cause with the pipeline, etc, it looks like events are coming down fast now.

    Cracked Memphis Bridge Remains Indefinitely Closed Disrupting Supply Chain


    Traffic on and below a major bridge over the Mississippi River near Memphis could be halted for several days or longer, causing significant disruptions to motorists and shipping, officials said on Wednesday.

    Authorities in Arkansas and Tennessee, along with the U.S. Coast Guard, indefinitely stopped all traffic related to the Hernando de Soto Bridge on Interstate 40 after inspectors discovered a crack in the steel structure on Tuesday and Tennessee officials say repairs could take some time.

    The bridge connects Memphis, Tenn., to West Memphis, Ark., and is a crucial waterway for barges transporting crops to export markets. Crews have begun emergency repairs.
    <snip>

    Arkansas transportation director Lori Tudor said it had the potential to become a "catastrophic event," adding "the bridge was closed to vehicular traffic and the river was closed to barge traffic as a safety precaution."

    Authorities say barge traffic can't resume unless engineers determine that the ridge can stand on its own despite the rusting crack. They say it could take a couple of weeks just to complete a full inspection of the nearly 50-year-old bridge.
    <snip>

    The Coast Guard says Mississippi river traffic is already backing up in both directions, with more than 400 barges awaiting passage, according to Reuters.

    Lieutenant Mark Pipkin, a Coast Guard spokesman, told the wire service that there were 12 northbound vessels with 157 barges waiting to pass and another 16 vessels with 254 barges in the queue to go southbound. "The barges are carrying a mix of materials including crude oil and dry cargo like corn or rocks," Reuters said.
    https://www.npr.org/2021/05/12/99640...g-supply-chain
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Quote Posted by pyrangello (here)
    I put this in the quake area because this bridge isn't cracking because everything is stable, Everyone knows about the New Madrid fault. This isn't an easy fix either, especially if things continue to move below.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/di...sissippi-river
    Concrete doesn't last for ever, quake or no quake.
    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/amse/2020/9370591/


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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    I agree concrete has a finite span in life, but if you look at that picture in the link I provided, the concrete snapped and shifted diagonally . There is no signs of it crumbling from AGE. A snap and shift represents load displacements, so something is moving. We have a bridge here in Michigan on I-75 called the zilwaukee bridge, all concrete with cables inside, the concrete pillars below holding up the bridge kept sinking so they shot Freon in the ground to freeze the areas around the pillars.

    If that pressure snapped that one spot on the bridge just imagine all the other areas now that have more stress trying to keep things in tact.

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Soil along a river is going to shift and move. With flooding and droughts this makes this a pretty normal event. I have not hear of any quakes along the fault line that were out of the norm. I think this is probably from natural processes. A river naturally wants to move and meander. When men channelize it to stop that the river finds a way.
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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Flood of immigrants at the southern US border. Ship blocks the Suez Canal. Gasoline pipeline hack in eastern US. Mississippi river blocked and major interstate highway closed.

    I sense a hidden hand.

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Quote Posted by pyrangello (here)
    I agree concrete has a finite span in life, but if you look at that picture in the link I provided, the concrete snapped and shifted diagonally . There is no signs of it crumbling from AGE. A snap and shift represents load displacements, so something is moving. We have a bridge here in Michigan on I-75 called the zilwaukee bridge, all concrete with cables inside, the concrete pillars below holding up the bridge kept sinking so they shot Freon in the ground to freeze the areas around the pillars.

    If that pressure snapped that one spot on the bridge just imagine all the other areas now that have more stress trying to keep things in tact.
    The picture in the link you provided shows the steel has cracked, not the concrete.

    Click image for larger version

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Concrete doesn't last for ever, quake or no quake.
    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/amse/2020/9370591/
    No it doesn't, but in regard to the potential durability of concrete the Romans have a pretty strong case to argue. A good example being the spectacular rotunda of the Pantheon, built in the early 2nd century. It is still the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome. Many such Roman concrete structures are still standing 2,000 years later - in an earthquake zone too.
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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    I’ve done a fair amount of construction litigation over the years. Cracked or cracking concrete is a common point of contention. As one structural engineer told me: “There's two kinds of concrete; the kind that’s cracked and the kind that’s not cracked yet.”

    Cracked or cracking concrete has a ripple effect throughout the entire structure. If not repaired, assuming it can be, it will lead to structural failure.

    The photo I’ve seen is of a steel beam with a “cut” or split right through it. Did concrete failure do that, or did that happen and then ripple out and down to the concrete? Cause and effect. Not good either way.

    Is the US infrastructure really given a grade of C-? If so, that’s up from the D- or F it had the last time I saw something on that a few years back. Either things have improved, which I doubt, or the people handing out the grades are grading on some kind of a curve.

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    That is Not a 'crack'... THAT is a BREAK - a Complete separation of a (Very Large) single piece of metal! Since the bridge appears to be composed of individual beams that are bolted or riveted together, then, plausibly, a new beam could be manufactured and installed to replace the broken beam... however, this in itself is Not a small undertaking, by any stretch of the imagination. I would estimate that it would take up to a year to fabricate, transport, remove the old beam, and install the new one. Simply my take with what I know about infrastructure such as this.
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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Concrete doesn't last for ever, quake or no quake.
    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/amse/2020/9370591/
    No it doesn't, but in regard to the potential durability of concrete the Romans have a pretty strong case to argue. A good example being the spectacular rotunda of the Pantheon, built in the early 2nd century. It is still the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome. Many such Roman concrete structures are still standing 2,000 years later - in an earthquake zone too.

    Sure. In fact I gather concrete spends centuries recovering the CO² that was pumped out to make the cement, which has a strengthening effect. Another factor however is load-bearing capacity. The Pantheon roof has not been taking any extra weight over time, whereas say a road bridge is likely taking many times more than it was designed for a century ago. German World War II bunkers are still in good shape too. It doesn’t matter that saboteurs tried to weaken the concrete e.g. by leaving their shovels in the mix, the ones that survived D-Day have been sitting pretty ever since and are not going anywhere anytime soon.


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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    The picture in the link you provided shows the steel has cracked, not the concrete.
    Biden has studied the problem and Super Glue Corp. has been dispatched to the site. :-)

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Your right it is steel, look to the left and see the rivots, when a bridge is built its engineered for movement, expansion and contraction from the sun, so many variables. In the pictures I just posted this is the Mackinaw Bridge joining upper and lower michigan , Its 5 miles across , all the 1 million bolts were hand tightened at night .The towers stand 1800 ft tall , and they go in the water 200 feet plus another 14 feet in the bedrock, when the winds are high thru the straits , this bridge was designed to sway side to side. It takes 3 days for this bridge to stop swaying once the winds have stopped. My buddy who is 91 worked on this bridge for quite a few years. Fascinating story.
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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    The concrete that was used ages ago to build the Bosnian Pyramid Complex is unlike modern concrete and much more durable.
    I don't think anyone has figured out how it was made yet.
    I have a small piece of it, and it has a very unusual vibe.
    Dr. Semir Osmanagic, who discovered the complex, was giving away pieces of the concrete at one of the conferences I attended in Little Rock where he was a guest speaker.
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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    Quote Posted by Kindred (here)
    That is Not a 'crack'... THAT is a BREAK - a Complete separation of a (Very Large) single piece of metal! Since the bridge appears to be composed of individual beams that are bolted or riveted together, then, plausibly, a new beam could be manufactured and installed to replace the broken beam... however, this in itself is Not a small undertaking, by any stretch of the imagination. I would estimate that it would take up to a year to fabricate, transport, remove the old beam, and install the new one. Simply my take with what I know about infrastructure such as this.
    I was about to point out that it was not a crack but a shear, you beat me to it. It is not new either, it is at least 3 or 4 months old judging by the weathering marks around the exposed edges. The replacement of the beam is the obvious solution but the entire bridge would need a very in depth survey to be declared fit for purpose again. Non-destructive testing would need to be carried out on every element of the bridge which could extend to far more than a year, in addition the replacement of the beam would require extensive support and bracing to the connected load bearing elements.

    Without visiting the site or seeing extensive photography of the surrounding elements I can't say any more, but I do wonder if no signs of stress are measurable in connected elements that the bridge is massively over-designed. It would be fairly common. It is possible the shearing of the beam has not really diverged stress to other areas, what needs to be established is what caused the shear in the first place. That could take years!

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    I'm not an engineer but I have engineered and drafted all of the projects I have been on as a contractor. Having the Los Angeles City, County and California building codes as a guideline for earthquake requirements, you learn a lot of the basics of securing anything to the earth. Soil makeup,stability, drainage and compression testing beforehand, plotting and laying out foundations, etc.. When looking at a project you get an eye for potential weaknesses in all aspects of the build. Even a good builder can ruin a project if their attention to the foundation details are not scrutinized over and over again.

    It looks as if at least half of the structural load on the Hernando de Soto Bridge is carried midspan on those two pilings/columns connected to the central pier that should be anchored into the bedrock below the bottom of the river. The original design and documentation of the build, inspections, metal quality, thickness and manufacturing , all have to be reviewed and post haste, knowing the urgency of commercial traffic flowing below.

    Looking at the shear crack on that lower beam supporting the suspended roadway, my first check would be the downward stress on the entire structure from a sinking midspan foundation and the midspan pier itself. The relationship between the two land based support structures and the midspan pier could easily be checked, as all of the structural relations on the elevation drawings are there to see on the plans. Their relationship is set and any lowering of elevation of the midspan connections will be easy to see. Transit, lasers.

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    The concrete that was used in times past contained volcanic ash. In Italy and other areas in southern Europe there was a readily available supply of this ash considering the demands of the builds they had then. As population increased the access and supply of that critical component in producing that particular concrete, along with an aggregate, sand and various other binders, dwindled over time.

    Modern builds do have a pretty reliable formula for the various types of concrete, but without the infusion of those much longer lasting ingredients there is, in modern commercial builds, an expectation of a much faster degradation of the structural integrity of concrete. Throughout all commercial builds worldwide, not just in the states, there often pops up a dangerous lack of integrity in the production of some products, concrete mix ratios being the most common and the deliberate lowering of the ratio of more expensive materials to cheaper ones is often the cause of concrete failure, cracking, chipping and flaking.

    I was working as a plasterer on a film there and my foreman asked me to take pictures of concrete failure on public works in the city in order to duplicate the many aspects of poor mixing and aged concrete on the sets we were building. For one of those examples I recorded, there is an overpass on the I-25, for the east west connection to Paseo Del Norte, in Albq., N.M. that had early concrete failure soon after the build was made.

    As it so happened there was a painting foreman who used to work in the concrete industry who filled me in on shoddy and good concrete mixing patterns of the companies in the state. He predicted the concrete failure on the overpass, which did not result in any harm to anyone, but it highlighted the lack of integrity in some public construction builds nationwide, and it may have been the sign of deeper structural problems in the overpass itself.

    In many cases the punitive and restorative power of litigation, suing the responsible parties, is the only prevention against poor construction and all of the damage it can cause, when in reality the only reliable power lives in diligence and insistence upon quality when public agencies and private interests contract out their builds.

    It was not just another coincidence that last night I happened to catch an episode of an old t.v. series filmed in Albq., In Plain Sight, featuring a conscientious engineer whose bridge had failed resulting in civilian deaths. It ended up being a play on a deeper integrity held by the structural engineer.

    Yes, some few designs and the engineering that creates them are faulty, but the vast majority of them are done well. In the case of the bridge on the Miss.River I see an over reliance upon a faulty design that does not pass the eye test.

    In the U.S. there are many, many bridges that are close to collapse because of the signs of structural failure, from a variety of causes. Both parties lack the political will and most likely the funding to prevent those many failures in the public transportation system, which do cause a preventable disruption in the supply chain that many have come to take for granted.

    I would love to see a massive injection of public funding going into highway and waterway repair and reclamation projects, much like the public works projects that offered so many jobs during the last depression. Everyone benefitted. However, not addressing the critical repairs needed nationwide will produce many incidents just like this one in the years ahead.


    I knew that a new carpenter would be a good partner when upon meeting him, and him seeing I was a journeyman carpenter, sunk in detail, he said "It's not that I don't trust your measurements. I don't trust your measurements." He meant that due diligence is how he works with himself as well as others, checking and double-checking, knowing what is right also looks right to the well trained eye. We have all caught our mistakes by keeping that focus on using our other senses, beyond what seems the monotony of repetitive work.

    I also say that if you're not making mistakes, you're not working. It's how open you are to constantly looking at the possibilities of change in a fixed build. In all building, that respect and openness with the entire work crew, with all of those eyes on the integrity of their work makes a big difference, an insurance worth more than all of the required bonds we can take out in procuring a project build.

    The earth is not static at all, nor especially is the build in a riverbed on a known fault line.
    Last edited by Hym; 14th May 2021 at 20:03.

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    Default Re: Discovery Of Massive Bridge Crack Forces US Coast Guard To Close Portion Of Mississippi River

    ...

    ... I don't really know, but looking at this picture, I can see two different signatures:
    • 1) a clear, clean cut of the top of the beam and
    • 2) a sheared/torn side of that beam...
    Attachment 46675
    ^
    (click)

    ... well, that's sabotage!
    Last edited by Gwin Ru; 14th May 2021 at 20:22.

  40. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Gwin Ru For This Post:

    gord (18th May 2021), Hym (14th May 2021), Karen (Geophyz) (14th May 2021), onawah (21st May 2021)

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