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    Avalon Member Mashika's Avatar
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    Default English homework

    Hi nice people of Avalon, this is probably not the place or site for it, but sorry i can't find any other people to ask and i know there are several US members here who have very good english, so please allow me to impose for a bit

    Short story, i have some homework to do with pronunciation and i just can't figure it out, here's the problem

    "Aluminum"
    Is it really pronounced like this?
    https://www.google.com/search?q=alum...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    i can hear 'ah-loo-mee-num', but that's not how they write it, it says 'uh-loo-muh-nuhm' and it's breaking my head, are there English language rules that determine this?

    Why is 'muh' sounding like 'mee', or i'm not hearing it well?

    I did not get much advice other than figuring it out and the other word is

    "Condominium" which i'm very sure was specifically selected for this practice
    I pronounce it as "kon-doo-mee-nee-um'

    But here it says it's not like that at all!
    https://www.google.com/search?q=cond...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    I can see that the British english is closer to how i say these words, but it's still not the right way as far as i can pronounce them, so now i don't even know if i'm just breaking it bad or what, or is it the same?

    I can understand that the word Aluminium may have changed over time to be Aluminum, without the last 'i' and that changes pronunciation, but i can't find how the word as written and pronounced do not match well

    When i looked on the web, i did not find very useful explanations, see here for example, this doesn't really help, and the video basically says all i already knew :/
    https://www.bbcamerica.com/blogs/10-...britain--16928
    Quote 2. Aluminum = The British pronunciation is a tongue twister. It comes easier after a few tries. But, then you’re in danger of forgetting how to say it in American-English. Sounding it out may help, al-loo-MIN-ee-um … There's a second "i" in the British form of the word, aluminium, hence the extra syllable. Here’s a video to help out.
    Oh and also i can see other words on that site but i'm not working on them, but it's fun because same issue

    Vitamin:
    British: Bit-A-Min
    US: Bite-A-Min

    Me: Wait-A-Min...

    I love the English language, it's so fun and cool, but sometimes.... :D

    I was just wondering if there are some rules i can reference for this, since i'm not able to find anything but people basically repeating the same stuff everywhere, i'm not sure if i'm looking for the wrong words, but i've been here for a while and nothing good came up so far, so i thought maybe someone here would know?

    Sorry to impose my homework, but i'm really...

    Last edited by Mashika; 25th May 2021 at 05:13.
    A sword, swung out of fear, can't ever be used to protect anyone.
    Bona Terra, Bona Gens, Aqua Clara, Clarum Coelum

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    Avalon Member Hym's Avatar
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    Default Re: English homework

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Hi nice people of Avalon, this is probably not the place or site for it, but sorry i can't find any other people to ask and i know there are several US members here who have very good english, so please allow me to impose for a bit

    Short story, i have some homework to do with pronunciation and i just can't figure it out, here's the problem

    "Aluminum"
    Is it really pronounced like this?
    https://www.google.com/search?q=alum...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    i can hear 'ah-loo-mee-num', but that's not how they write it, it says 'uh-loo-muh-nuhm' and it's breaking my head, are there English language rules that determine this?

    Why is 'muh' sounding like 'mee', or i'm not hearing it well?

    I did not get much advice other than figuring it out and the other word is

    "Condominium" which i'm very sure was specifically selected for this practice
    I pronounce it as "kon-doo-mee-nee-um'

    But here it says it's not like that at all!
    https://www.google.com/search?q=cond...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    I can see that the British english is closer to how i say these words, but it's still not the right way as far as i can pronounce them, so now i don't even know if i'm just breaking it bad or what, or is it the same?

    I can understand that the word Aluminium may have changed over time to be Aluminum, without the last 'i' and that changes pronunciation, but i can't find how the word as written and pronounced do not match well

    When i looked on the web, i did not find very useful explanations, see here for example, this doesn't really help, and the video basically says all i already knew :/
    https://www.bbcamerica.com/blogs/10-...britain--16928
    Quote 2. Aluminum = The British pronunciation is a tongue twister. It comes easier after a few tries. But, then you’re in danger of forgetting how to say it in American-English. Sounding it out may help, al-loo-MIN-ee-um … There's a second "i" in the British form of the word, aluminium, hence the extra syllable. Here’s a video to help out.
    Oh and also i can see other words on that site but i'm not working on them, but it's fun because same issue

    Vitamin:
    British: Bit-A-Min
    US: Bite-A-Min

    Me: Wait-A-Min...

    I love the English language, it's so fun and cool, but sometimes.... :D

    I was just wondering if there are some rules i can reference for this, since i'm not able to find anything but people basically repeating the same stuff everywhere, i'm not sure if i'm looking for the wrong words, but i've been here for a while and nothing good came up so far, so i thought maybe someone here would know?

    Sorry to impose my homework, but i'm really...


    Just my cup of tea, Mashika....

    Yes. Quite a bit of difference between the Brits and us Yanks.

    Here it is Uh loom-ihnum, or Uh loo-muh-nuhm. In teaching American English I have always written the A as either
    Uh as in up or Ay as in play and the ih as in sit. The reason I do this is that Europeans enunciate the A and the I different than Americans.

    "Why is 'muh' sounding like 'mee', or i'm not hearing it well?"

    It's either 'muh' or 'mih'. It's never 'mee' here.

    "Vitamin:
    British: Bit-A-Min
    US: Bite-A-Min

    Me: Wait-A-Min..."

    Eye 'ear (I hear) Viht Uh Min' from the Brits. And if you see them saying the word you can see the upper teeth touchin' the lower lip to say the 'V', quite the same as in the states. The B is when both lips touch to form the letter B.

    "Condominium" which i'm very sure was specifically selected for this practice
    I pronounce it as "kon-doo-mee-nee-um' "

    It is Kawn-duh-mihn-ee-um here. You use Kon as in Kon Tiki. Same sound, different writing. We could also use Kahn or Kaan, both which sound the same.
    I also put the 'ih' there instead of just an 'i' as many Europeans see the 'i' as 'eye', or the 'i' as 'ee'.


    There are no steadfast rules in transliteration, except to see, hear, and learn what the base language a student learns from and how it is transliterated into English.

    However, 'Ow-Evuh', nuttin' compares to seeing and hearing a language being spoken and used.

    I too see language as fun to learn, but nothing comes close to learning it in person and then repeating it back to native speakers. I have been asked to do voice overs, but the money was never enough and the industry not appealing to me, as the content often has no character, or moral base.

    I prefer to listen and share what I know without charging, sit back and enjoy people advancing fast, as language has so many signs of what is happening to the speaker if you listen...So many insights to share and to gain.
    Last edited by Hym; 25th May 2021 at 06:34.

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  5. Link to Post #3
    Avalon Member Mashika's Avatar
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    Default Re: English homework

    Thank you so much

    I think I'm starting to see this better now

    Shamefully for me, I skipped learning how to speak English for years, so ended up only writing and reading it, and having to watch movies with subtitles all the time, now it bites me back lol

    I wish the explanations on Google were as good as yours

    Your pronunciation guide was way ways better

    I was trying the v vs B issue, I found your advice extremely helpful!

    I have problems with that as well, thank you so much!

    Thank you again, this will be very helpful

    Also, I think I need to hire a better English teacher, for sure will do once at home

    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Hi nice people of Avalon, this is probably not the place or site for it, but sorry i can't find any other people to ask and i know there are several US members here who have very good english, so please allow me to impose for a bit

    Short story, i have some homework to do with pronunciation and i just can't figure it out, here's the problem

    "Aluminum"
    Is it really pronounced like this?
    https://www.google.com/search?q=alum...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    i can hear 'ah-loo-mee-num', but that's not how they write it, it says 'uh-loo-muh-nuhm' and it's breaking my head, are there English language rules that determine this?

    Why is 'muh' sounding like 'mee', or i'm not hearing it well?

    I did not get much advice other than figuring it out and the other word is

    "Condominium" which i'm very sure was specifically selected for this practice
    I pronounce it as "kon-doo-mee-nee-um'

    But here it says it's not like that at all!
    https://www.google.com/search?q=cond...hrome&ie=UTF-8

    I can see that the British english is closer to how i say these words, but it's still not the right way as far as i can pronounce them, so now i don't even know if i'm just breaking it bad or what, or is it the same?

    I can understand that the word Aluminium may have changed over time to be Aluminum, without the last 'i' and that changes pronunciation, but i can't find how the word as written and pronounced do not match well

    When i looked on the web, i did not find very useful explanations, see here for example, this doesn't really help, and the video basically says all i already knew :/
    https://www.bbcamerica.com/blogs/10-...britain--16928
    Quote 2. Aluminum = The British pronunciation is a tongue twister. It comes easier after a few tries. But, then you’re in danger of forgetting how to say it in American-English. Sounding it out may help, al-loo-MIN-ee-um … There's a second "i" in the British form of the word, aluminium, hence the extra syllable. Here’s a video to help out.
    Oh and also i can see other words on that site but i'm not working on them, but it's fun because same issue

    Vitamin:
    British: Bit-A-Min
    US: Bite-A-Min

    Me: Wait-A-Min...

    I love the English language, it's so fun and cool, but sometimes.... :D

    I was just wondering if there are some rules i can reference for this, since i'm not able to find anything but people basically repeating the same stuff everywhere, i'm not sure if i'm looking for the wrong words, but i've been here for a while and nothing good came up so far, so i thought maybe someone here would know?

    Sorry to impose my homework, but i'm really...


    Just my cup of tea, Mashika....

    Yes. Quite a bit of difference between the Brits and us Yanks.

    Here it is Uh loom-ihnum, or Uh loo-muh-nuhm. In teaching American English I have always written the A as either
    Uh as in up or Ay as in play and the ih as in sit. The reason I do this is that Europeans enunciate the A and the I different than Americans.

    "Why is 'muh' sounding like 'mee', or i'm not hearing it well?"

    It's either 'muh' or 'mih'. It's never 'mee' here.

    "Vitamin:
    British: Bit-A-Min
    US: Bite-A-Min

    Me: Wait-A-Min..."

    Eye 'ear (I hear) Viht Uh Min' from the Brits. And if you see them saying the word you can see the upper teeth touchin' the lower lip to say the 'V', quite the same as in the states. The B is when both lips touch to form the letter B.

    "Condominium" which i'm very sure was specifically selected for this practice
    I pronounce it as "kon-doo-mee-nee-um' "

    It is Kawn-duh-mihn-ee-um here. You use Kon as in Kon Tiki. Same sound, different writing. We could also use Kahn or Kaan, both which sound the same.
    I also put the 'ih' there instead of just an 'i' as many Europeans see the 'i' as 'eye', or the 'i' as 'ee'.


    There are no steadfast rules in transliteration, except to see, hear, and learn what the base language a student learns from and how it is transliterated into English.

    However, 'Ow-Evuh', nuttin' compares to seeing and hearing a language being spoken and used.

    I too see language as fun to learn, but nothing comes close to learning it in person and then repeating it back to native speakers. I have been asked to do voice overs, but the money was never enough and the industry not appealing to me, as the content often has no character, or moral base.

    I prefer to listen and share what I know without charging, sit back and enjoy people advancing fast, as language has so many signs of what is happening to the speaker if you listen...So many insights to share and to gain.
    Last edited by Mashika; 25th May 2021 at 06:47.
    A sword, swung out of fear, can't ever be used to protect anyone.
    Bona Terra, Bona Gens, Aqua Clara, Clarum Coelum

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    Default Re: English homework

    I would also say, in a major way, that I have never purposely corrected anyone writing here on Avalon....because of a profound respect for their learning and the way their native languages exists. Besides all of that technical application, I have found some languages more accurate than English in describing and expressing the human experience.

    Though we want to accurately imitate the present use of a language, one other than our own native tongue, there is a lot to be said about listening to a non-native speaker doing their best to get THEIR OWN expressions over to us in our native form, with all of it's tenses, nuances and applications.

    I marvel at some of the writing here and am happy to read the expressions of those like Anka, EFO, Mashika and others whose writings are amazing in any language!

    Transcendent.....
    And often the very best of the Heart and Soul of Living,
    Taking us all far...
    Beyond the Words Themselves...
    Last edited by Hym; 25th May 2021 at 07:01.

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    Avalon Member Mashika's Avatar
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    Default Re: English homework

    Some languages like my own, have very specific things that are different. For English I special love how flexible it can be, when joking and even when insulting, like chaining insults in a joking way, and even the 'yo mama jokes which in Russia would get the person the beat up of their life most times

    Spanish is also a very cool language, where a word can mean like 20 different things, depending on the context, or the person who you are speaking to, and i find that beautiful, because they always know, somehow, the correct place and time to say it without getting misunderstood

    Of course we have similar things, but not at that level, when i first started understanding street lang in Mexico i was so amazed, i could not stop laughing every 5 minutes.. Friends and people started thinking i had some 'special needs' to say the least lmao

    I think English is one of the greatest languages in history, but in the way it's now sometimes seems a bit odd, i first learned from a teacher who was around 70 years old i think, then i went to learn from school, but i kind of learned his old ways first, so it got confusing later on, specially because i avoided truly learning just to 'rebel', so i got a lot of stuff very wrong, as you can see

    I think EFO and Anka have way better English than me, and so many other people from other countries as well, sometimes it makes me wonder if i'm truly bad at this lol, because it's very inconsistent the way i write, but they have like a well formed style, at least from what i can see, how did they learn to have a style where you can read and say "this is written by that person"?

    Anyway i'm trying to correct my past mistakes, and i can feel i have done a bit of improvement here in the time i have been here, and i'm very thankful for that <3



    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    I would also say, in a major way, that I have never purposely corrected anyone writing here on Avalon....because of a profound respect for their learning and the way their native languages exists. Besides all of that technical application, I have found some languages more accurate than English in describing and expressing the human experience.

    Though we want to accurately imitate the present use of a language, one other than our own native tongue, there is a lot to be said about listening to a non-native speaker doing their best to get THEIR OWN expressions over to us in our native form, with all of it's tenses, nuances and applications.

    I marvel at some of the writing here and am happy to read the mostly successful expressions of those like Anka, EFO, Mashika and others whose writings are amazing in any language!

    Transcendent.....
    And often the very best of the Heart and Soul of Living,
    Taking us all far...
    Beyond the Words Themselves...
    A sword, swung out of fear, can't ever be used to protect anyone.
    Bona Terra, Bona Gens, Aqua Clara, Clarum Coelum

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    Avalon Member Hym's Avatar
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    Default Re: English homework

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Some languages like my own, have very specific things that are different. For English I special love how flexible it can be, when joking and even when insulting, like chaining insults in a joking way, and even the 'yo mama jokes which in Russia would get the person the beat up of their life most times

    Spanish is also a very cool language, where a word can mean like 20 different things, depending on the context, or the person who you are speaking to, and i find that beautiful, because they always know, somehow, the correct place and time to say it without getting misunderstood

    Of course we have similar things, but not at that level, when i first started understanding street lang in Mexico i was so amazed, i could not stop laughing every 5 minutes.. Friends and people started thinking i had some 'special needs' to say the least lmao

    I think English is one of the greatest languages in history, but in the way it's now sometimes seems a bit odd, i first learned from a teacher who was around 70 years old i think, then i went to learn from school, but i kind of learned his old ways first, so it got confusing later on, specially because i avoided truly learning just to 'rebel', so i got a lot of stuff very wrong, as you can see

    I think EFO and Anka have way better English than me, and so many other people from other countries as well, sometimes it makes me wonder if i'm truly bad at this lol, because it's very inconsistent the way i write, but they have like a well formed style, at least from what i can see, how did they learn to have a style where you can read and say "this is written by that person"?

    Anyway i'm trying to correct my past mistakes, and i can feel i have done a bit of improvement here in the time i have been here, and i'm very thankful for that

    The cool thing is that the expressions we share here likely tell us that we'd get along well if we all knew each other in person.

    And to be very accurate with you Mashika, you are very good writing in English. In fact I have often said to myself that this young lady from another country expresses herself much better than many Americans. Your writing and the writing of others lives at the core of why human expression is so valuable between what appears to be very distant cultures and histories.

    I too see Anca's writing on a different level than anyone here. Not a higher or lower form but, without a doubt, deeper into the reality that is our experiences and our purposes in living with each other, in nature and in the world ...that is Anca.....even as it is not correct for me to define anyone, especially here....

    At times we do go to the consciousness that is a blend of the most soulful insights like Anca does......at times...
    and here....in my writing....I cannot put it into words....everyone here knows what I mean when we read her expressions...
    Last edited by Hym; 25th May 2021 at 07:34.

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    Default Re: English homework

    But many people seem to have nickname it as luminum.

    Similarly for condominium you may just say condomium but ups, someone could get the joke.

    Happy to be of help

    🐨

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    Default Re: English homework

    I suppose English has to be flexible or is becoming more-so due to becoming a global language. For example, in asia its slightly annoying how they spell some of their names and such. Yes, we can spell many ways - Jasmine, Jasmyn, Jasmin, Jazmin, Jazmine, etc... But you can't just spell however you want. Sometimes its just wrong/illegal. lol I can't think of a good example, but I've seen some that just are not English words at all.

    Sometimes the British choice of words or pronunciation makes more sense, sometimes the american one. The brits talk trash about how we hacked the language bla bla. The reality is that the British accent seems to be more appreciated for style/beauty, but the american/canadian accents are for sure better for an international accent. Im from the midwest, i guess its called the non-regional dialect. Fairly slow and very articulate. There is a reason it is how the news essentially speaks. I cant tell you how many asians are surprised and happy to talk to me cuz they can understand way more of what I say than other more difficult accents. Its easier to learn. Although there are a couple british accents that are pretty clear. Also, I observe that there are quite a lot of people who just dont know how to speak very clearly. Whether its lazy or some slurring or other strange anomalies in their voice or something with their tongue or nasal distorting the sound. its hard for me to understand how so many people speak everyday but cant speak clearly. haha

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    Avalon Member Mashika's Avatar
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    Default Re: English homework

    Quote Posted by Merkaba360 (here)
    I suppose English has to be flexible or is becoming more-so due to becoming a global language. For example, in asia its slightly annoying how they spell some of their names and such. Yes, we can spell many ways - Jasmine, Jasmyn, Jasmin, Jazmin, Jazmine, etc... But you can't just spell however you want. Sometimes its just wrong/illegal. lol I can't think of a good example, but I've seen some that just are not English words at all.

    Sometimes the British choice of words or pronunciation makes more sense, sometimes the american one. The brits talk trash about how we hacked the language bla bla. The reality is that the British accent seems to be more appreciated for style/beauty, but the american/canadian accents are for sure better for an international accent. Im from the midwest, i guess its called the non-regional dialect. Fairly slow and very articulate. There is a reason it is how the news essentially speaks. I cant tell you how many asians are surprised and happy to talk to me cuz they can understand way more of what I say than other more difficult accents. Its easier to learn. Although there are a couple british accents that are pretty clear. Also, I observe that there are quite a lot of people who just dont know how to speak very clearly. Whether its lazy or some slurring or other strange anomalies in their voice or something with their tongue or nasal distorting the sound. its hard for me to understand how so many people speak everyday but cant speak clearly. haha
    I found in Mexico, something very odd a few years ago, people calling their kids "brayan", and when i said wait isn't it "brian"? They got offended and said "No! IT.IS.BRAHYAHNN!".. Ok crazy lady, brayan it is....

    I also found that it was easier for me to understand people in Tennessee, for some reason, than in other parts of the US, i don't even know why, but i could more or less get it and even if i could not reply, i could have a translation from my sister which was adequate enough from my own words. I felt happy about that, because i could understand real English, not 'movies' one
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    Default Re: English homework

    I was just 'a waa-chin' a movie about the reluctant soldier from world war 1, Sgt. Alvin York, who along with a small number of his fellow soldiers, captured 132 enemy soldiers, all because his religious upbringing so adamantly forbade killing, even as he had to kill 25 in self defense.

    The real man himself was from Tennessee and the accents from all of the actors were easy to hear. We call it a drawl, which is a slower, more drawn out way of 'Uh taawk'nn'. The movie forcefully emphasized that we might be correct if we assumed that the language must have had something to do with his moral character, if not for actually being an integral expression of his own soul.

    That would not be correct, just as parts of the movie itself were not accurate.....like sayin' that the state of Tennessee granted him the land they gave him free and clear...which they did not, as his wife's own family had to pitch in their own money and save the land from foreclosure.

    We know that much of the language itself is a progression from the ancestry being Scottish, Welsh and Irish bloodlines 'a (uh) runnin' through them. It is easy to see why the Irish actor, Liam Neesen, played a back country native with a thick accent, supposedly from the nearby state of Kentucky, which is just north of Tennessee, in the movie "Next of Kin".

    What is also interesting and worth a study when learning another language, is how very good actors and travelers lose their own accent when speaking a foreign language. In contrast, I'd like to see and hear an American actor act in a British play, film or series without anyone noticing that they aren't English, or if they seamlessly portrayed an Aussie, or South African native, whose accents are heavily influenced by either Dutch or Scottish/Irish dialects adapted to English.

    I'm learning a bit of Brazilian Portuguese these days and I've had to make a template showing how each word is different than my american dialect. Though they take the 'R' and turn it into an 'H', like Rio de Janeiro being enunciated as 'Hee-O Day Zjuh Nay Ro'...they have no problem saying an 'R' at the end of their words, a fact which makes no sense....unless you understand the origins of the language. I can even see how the Japanese language has influenced Brazilian Portuguese, when one elderly native Brazilian woman from north of Sao Paolo said that 'Thanks', 'Obrigado', comes from the Japanese 'Thanks', 'Arigato'.

    In watching programs teaching some common native, north american dialects, I am completely lost watching their written interpretations of what I hear, as if those indigenous people were not coming from a base of speaking common English, which is well known. However, once the english is learned in written form first and spoken along with, before a native tongue is used, it is more difficult to learn another language.

    There are many miscues that have arisen from the forms chosen by interpreters in deriving a commonly understood transliteration method. I see it all the time, and my answer is that they need to adapt to the reader, the listener, the new speaker learning another language.

    If I were to have had the pleasure of being with the inventor of the previously unwritten, newly invented and written form of Cherokee, Sequoia, we would have had a long talk...and I don't know if my interpretation would have helped anyone other than myself. I do know I'd have learned a lot, even if I still had some objections to the forms he chose. It comes down to the truth that the best learning is done in person, watching how the mouth forms the words and listening to yourself then speak them.

    I have a great admiration for those deaf actors and actresses who have portrayed hearing and deaf characters alike with barely a noticeable difference. Deanne Bray and Marlee Matlin are two of the best. I would love to work with teaching the deaf and partially deaf, not just actors, how to enunciate in their own language as I see some solutions....even to the point of showing where the tongue is placed in the mouth, where the force of speech is at for each word, etc., etc., and to the heart of the matter...

    However.....it is still important to note that it does not matter what the written form looks like, as long as the ones learning it interpret whatever is written as sounding correctly. If they learn it as anything other than what many interpreters consider a common form, they have not learned it incorrectly. It is the interpreters lack of adjustment in accepting the form and not teaching what so many others may understand more easily.

    I often laugh at westerners who hold so steadfastly to a written transliteration method that was developed by non-native speakers themselves, as if any method is so written in stone.

    Hey, just because it is written in stone doesn't make it accurate or even true. Speech evolves and devolves, depending on the character of the people speaking, and whether or not they are listening with their heads or their hearts....
    Last edited by Hym; 26th May 2021 at 01:52.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: English homework

    Mash, if it is any consolation I would never have known you struggle with English as your written posts really give no indication of it.

    Sure there is the odd mistake but, believe me, plenty native English speakers can make just the same mistakes - and I include myself in that as generally my internal dialogue is way ahead of my typing skill and I have a super-bad habit of not checking my work.

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