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Thread: Choosing not to work

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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default Choosing not to work

    Never did I think choosing not work would be an option. Dan's program today is all about that and also about people in power that say, 'give your money away' for equity but don't practice it.

    the essence of the debate is a shorter video that starts just after 3 minutes in...

    Growing up as a baby boomer and parents that instilled a work ethic there is some bias in me but even spiritual writings discuss the work ethic as very healthy to living. It would be neat to hear some more thoughts about this from the diverse forum.

    https://rumble.com/viug9t-ep.-1546-n...gino-show.html


    Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/vg8a4j
    Last edited by mojo; 21st June 2021 at 17:48.

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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    thank you for the embedding I tried to do it once but didnt work, even following along...

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    It would be neat to hear some more thoughts about this from the diverse forum.
    Well, besides the health and wellness aspect to all this (it's healthy, enriching and empowering if one's working towards some goal which one really cares about, whether paid or not) — if no-one works, despite automated factories, then not a lot gets done.

    It's all about decadence (definition: moral or cultural decline as characterized by excessive indulgence in pleasure or luxury). As any historian will confirm, that's the precursor for the decline of a civilization. It's happened many times before.

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    UK Avalon Member Mike Gorman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    Entropy tends to be accelerated when people give up on their work - I think the question is more of what type of work is available to people, I am certain many folks would prefer to devote their energy to something positive and constructive rather than clocking into a routine factory job 8 hours a day, 5 days per week. Some people are forced to accept whatever kind of work is available, to earn a living wage, there is no shame in doing dull/routine work, but surely our society has advanced to the point where people can find meaningful employment, or the ability to create their own work? The internet has generated many opportunities for building businesses, and this is why we have this boom in wanting to be an Entrepreneur - this is the ultimate in Cool these days, claiming you are an entrepreneur; only trouble is not many are actually any good at this, because it takes talent and lots of focus. People are definitely inclined to work, this is supposedly the entire objective and ambition for adult life!
    I come from a hard working background, and I have worked in many fields, from Bricklaying to Network Administration, I have worked in factories, and offices alike. The most recent work I have have been looking at is being a Funeral Director and general assistant for 'death' related matters(!!) However, it can be a struggle sometimes to find work, one's age and appearance has a major part in your success.

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    Avalon Member I am B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    It would be neat to hear some more thoughts about this from the diverse forum.
    Well, besides the health and wellness aspect to all this (it's healthy, enriching and empowering if one's working towards some goal which one really cares about, whether paid or not) — if no-one works, despite automated factories, then not a lot gets done.

    It's all about decadence (definition: moral or cultural decline as characterized by excessive indulgence in pleasure or luxury). As any historian will confirm, that's the precursor for the decline of a civilization. It's happened many times before.
    But we're getting to such a weird point nowadays. (I'm not sure it was like this before)
    People my age indulge so much in pleasure and luxury that they take unhealthy pointless works, that provide no personal value, and are barely paid. The worse from "both worlds".

    This Baby boomer mentality work ethic is what is pushing people to swallow modern slavery, creating MONSTERS like Amazon, etc.

    In my opinion, it is important to put one's principles before work conditions, even if it means choosing not to take on some work. There is no dignity in lowering the head and swallowing everything.

    People drawing the line, Its the only way something can be changed.
    Last edited by I am B; 22nd June 2021 at 10:12.

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    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    Quote Posted by I am B (here)
    This Baby boomer mentality work ethic is what is pushing people to swallow modern slavery, creating MONSTERS like Amazon, etc.

    In my opinion, it is important to put one's principles before work conditions, even if it means choosing not to take on some work. There is no dignity in lowering the head and swallowing everything.

    People drawing the line, Its the only way something can be changed.
    Well, I may or may not be a baby boomer; according to some date ranges I am, but with others I'm not. I have to say that I don't like that term being bandied about as it is often used now in a derogatory way.

    It's not a 'baby boomer' work ethic anyway, as it was the work ethic that they inherited from their parents and grandparents. At the turn of the 20th century a 10 hour working day was common, and when my parents were children there was just one week's holiday leave when everyone went to the coast in the summer. My grandmother told me that from a very young age they had to start earning to contribute to the family budget by running errands for shops as they were so poor.

    However, what has changed since the 1980s is a collapse in the value of wages. Before that time, anyone who worked in unskilled jobs could earn enough to have a decent standard of living and could afford to buy a house. Many workplaces were unionised, so workers' rights were championed, and more employers than nowadays were by and large benevolent. All that changed with Thatcherism when Britain's industrial base was destroyed and multinationals took over many family-owned businesses, also computerisation has killed off the huge amount of clerical jobs that existed when I left school.

    I've done some manual work in the past few years which I enjoyed for the most part as I find physical tiredness better than mental tiredness. Employers have the mindset that anyone over 50 knows nothing about computers so I haven't been able to return to the sort of administrative work that I did in the past. What I've found from working with people who do manual jobs is that it's all that they can get around here, no major cities nearby with a greater scope, and I have heard some horror stories of factory work with the way they were treated.
    Last edited by Brigantia; 22nd June 2021 at 12:48.

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    Greece Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    I believe the modern notion of "work" and having a job, which includes a pseudo-moral societal value that is very deeply embedded in us, was primarily originated in the 16th century due to Prostentatism. It was a combination of a very strict and judgmental God towards the humble, frugal, disciplined and full of sin human who has to work extra hard for redemption. It's a well analyzed topic in sociology, especially by Max Weber. Historically speaking, that was the root of capitalism.

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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    Thanks for all the great comments, thought maybe I missed the mark on the post but people are really thinking about the response so thats great... Dan was on the same topic today. He explains things much better than I could, this phenomenon of choosing not to work is relatively new. Yes I personally have met a person that choose not to work and live off of others which seems so odd but now it originates not from within but an external source and part of a political narrative.


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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Quote Posted by I am B (here)
    This Baby boomer mentality work ethic is what is pushing people to swallow modern slavery, creating MONSTERS like Amazon, etc.

    In my opinion, it is important to put one's principles before work conditions, even if it means choosing not to take on some work. There is no dignity in lowering the head and swallowing everything.

    People drawing the line, Its the only way something can be changed.
    Well, I may or may not be a baby boomer; according to some date ranges I am, but with others I'm not. I have to say that I don't like that term being bandied about as it is often used now in a derogatory way.

    It's not a 'baby boomer' work ethic anyway, as it was the work ethic that they inherited from their parents and grandparents.
    Sorry, I refeered to baby boomer as a generational thing and not in a derogatory way.

    The problem with it is that it is widely assumed that the work conditions are as good as they were back then.

    Someone with an average 8h job, barely educated, could be earning enough to have a comfortable living, a house, children... Without depending on charity, state help or family. Here in spain we had the "1000€ers", people with salaries around the 1000€ that had just enough to go by without breaking their asses on their job renouncing to the average luxury.

    Unemployment was low, Financial help was provided by banks, companies gave production incentives and permanent contracts, promotion was a real thing, and working for years in a company would both pay off and be fulfilling. I'm not saying it was easy. I'm saying it was fair. (or more at least)

    Nowadays, added to the increase in prices of EVERYTHING, having an averagely remunerated job is already the luck of ages. (40% juvenile unemployment) Buying property is close to impossible (to say the least), rents only already take 80% of a GOOD salary. Wherever youre hired (if you are) promotion hopes are close to non existent, and permanent contracts are nowhere to be seen but chain production factories. Even for people with useful degrees. I could cite cases one by one, but it'd be too long of a post.

    What all this comes to is to a general population having a hard time believing that things did really went to (deep) hell already. And yes, although as a stoic believer i despise it, reality is what it is, and I understand why people just choose not to work.

    Generational rant out
    Last edited by I am B; 22nd June 2021 at 20:12.

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    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    Thanks for your reply I am B. I followed what happened in Spain a few years ago when the economy collapsed and youth unemployment went sky-high, and can understand the despair that many may feel.

    The added problem here in Britain in the 1980s was the deregulation of credit; many borrowed far more than they could afford to buy cars, holidays and goods that people would have previously saved up for. When the economy tanks and their earnings shrink, they can't afford their repayments.

    It was an easier time until the 1980s, as housing was affordable in relation to earnings, jobs were plentiful and people saved money. It's so different here nowadays.

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    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Choosing not to work

    I'm working too hard lately. I'm thinking of joining the Lie Flat movement

    https://www.insider.com/disenchanted...ie-flat-2021-6

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