+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 57

Thread: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

  1. Link to Post #1
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    ...so says the surgeon general.

    This whole video (10 mins long) is horrifying. But I'm not sure which part of it is most horrifying:

    1) The White House telling Facebook which posts they need to censor

    2) The surgeon general suggesting that our free speech actually restricts our freedoms. Of course he speaks in a thinly veiled code: "misinformation" (i.e. anything that deviates from the mainstream narrative) restricts our freedoms, therefore must be done away with. Perhaps I shouldn't have been, but I was utterly shocked when he said this. As I was just telling a close friend, of course I know what they've been up to all this time, but seeing that man so casually utter those words left me speechless. It's becoming passe to say something is "Orwellian" or "straight out of 1984", but I don't know how else to say it. His intent is so transparent that it left my jaw in the floor. Do they think we're really that stupid or are their writers just really bad? Or do they just not care? I'm not entirely sure. I'm not entirely sure about anything anymore.

    I don't think most people below age 30 have any idea why free speech is so important, or how our freedom of speech here in America makes it such a truly unique place. The bogeyman of "hate speech" has lulled the youth into not only not knowing the value of free speech, but actively being against it. They are not just not patriotic, they are actively unpatriotic. It's not entirely their fault, having been brainwashed from such an early age to hate the country, but it's time to wake up. In fairness, a significant number of those above 30 - who didn't get the anti-American "education" - have also lost sight of the vital importance of free speech.

    Make no mistake: free speech is in the process of being cancelled.

    As Yuri Bezmenov said: "If you're not scared now, nothing will scare you."


    Last edited by Mike; 17th July 2021 at 20:19.

  2. The Following 34 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    Alan (18th July 2021), Ankle Biter (18th July 2021), atman (17th July 2021), Bill Ryan (17th July 2021), Brigantia (17th July 2021), Brodie75 (18th July 2021), Chris Gilbert (18th July 2021), Constance (17th July 2021), Ewan (18th July 2021), Franny (17th July 2021), gini (18th July 2021), Gracy (18th July 2021), heretogrow (17th July 2021), Ioneo (18th July 2021), Jambo (18th July 2021), Journeyman (18th July 2021), Kryztian (18th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Matthew (17th July 2021), meat suit (18th July 2021), mountain_jim (18th July 2021), onawah (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), PurpleLama (21st July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), rgray222 (19th July 2021), RunningDeer (17th July 2021), Satori (17th July 2021), Sue (Ayt) (18th July 2021), thepainterdoug (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  3. Link to Post #2
    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2012
    Location
    Forest Dweller
    Language
    English
    Posts
    18,341
    Thanks
    127,398
    Thanked 168,300 times in 18,139 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    TUCKER AND GLENN GREENWALD ON BIDEN ADMIN TEAMING UP
    WITH BIG TECH TO CENSOR “MISINFORMATION”
    (6 min)
    Tucker Carlson: "Yes, the White House is actually in control of the information that you receive on your phone because the first amendment doesn’t exist. Politicians have taken over the media. But that’s totally fine because that’s disinformation. They said that out loud. And today, they didn’t back track or apologize or fire the person who said it or disavow what she said because it’s crazy, unconstitutional behavior. They doubled down. The same person, Joe Biden’s press secretary, said that if you're banned on one social media platform, then you should be banned everywhere."

    You should be totally silenced if you disagree with the Joe Biden White House.
    Glenn Greenwald Discusses Admission of White House Directing Opposition Censorship Through Big Tech
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 18th July 2021 at 00:19.

  4. The Following 23 Users Say Thank You to RunningDeer For This Post:

    Alan (18th July 2021), Alecs (18th July 2021), Ankle Biter (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Brigantia (18th July 2021), Constance (18th July 2021), Ewan (18th July 2021), gini (18th July 2021), Harmony (18th July 2021), Jambo (18th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), mountain_jim (18th July 2021), onawah (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), PurpleLama (21st July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), rgray222 (19th July 2021), thepainterdoug (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  5. Link to Post #3
    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2012
    Location
    Forest Dweller
    Language
    English
    Posts
    18,341
    Thanks
    127,398
    Thanked 168,300 times in 18,139 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    "What’s your message to places like Facebook?" (19 seconds)


  6. The Following 23 Users Say Thank You to RunningDeer For This Post:

    Alan (18th July 2021), Ankle Biter (18th July 2021), atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Brigantia (18th July 2021), Constance (18th July 2021), East Sun (18th July 2021), Ewan (18th July 2021), gini (18th July 2021), Harmony (18th July 2021), Jambo (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), mountain_jim (18th July 2021), onawah (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), rgray222 (19th July 2021), Satori (18th July 2021), thepainterdoug (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  7. Link to Post #4
    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
    Join Date
    13th May 2010
    Location
    USA
    Language
    English
    Posts
    2,108
    Thanks
    6,998
    Thanked 8,486 times in 1,711 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    He is an idiot, and should be removed from office, Now.
    Question Everything, always speak truth... Make the best of today, for there may not be a tomorrow!!! But, that's OK because tomorrow never comes, so we have nothing to worry about!!!

  8. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to East Sun For This Post:

    Alan (18th July 2021), Alecs (18th July 2021), Ankle Biter (18th July 2021), atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Blacklight43 (18th July 2021), Brigantia (18th July 2021), Jambo (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), onawah (18th July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), Satori (18th July 2021), thepainterdoug (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  9. Link to Post #5
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    8th January 2015
    Location
    Kentucky
    Language
    English
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,991
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 13,955 times in 1,944 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Yep, another step forward into a 1984 type of society. For sure that's some creepy s**t Mike, hell the guy even looks creepy!.

    I've been watching the "totalitarian tiptoe" for quite some time now, and it's definitely becoming more and more a sprint as David Icke puts it, thing is I just don't see it as suddenly becoming a major problem in the last several months is all under Biden. Each president is taking bolder steps from atop the shoulders of the precedents set under their predecessor.

    I don't think any of these guys are really in firm control of anything, more like figureheads. I think the major way this is made possible by the real ptb is to ever divide us against each other here at home with culture wars and such, while simultaneously distracting our attention towards either endless made up, or created boogey men abroad. "It's there, no there, no there, we gotta get 'em!"

    All the while marching off into the sunset...

  10. Link to Post #6
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Gracy May (here)
    Yep, another step forward into a 1984 type of society. For sure that's some creepy s**t Mike, hell the guy even looks creepy!.

    I've been watching the "totalitarian tiptoe" for quite some time now, and it's definitely becoming more and more a sprint as David Icke puts it, thing is I just don't see it as suddenly becoming a major problem in the last several months is all under Biden. Each president is taking bolder steps from atop the shoulders of the precedents set under their predecessor.

    I don't think any of these guys are really in firm control of anything, more like figureheads. I think the major way this is made possible by the real ptb is to ever divide us against each other here at home with culture wars and such, while simultaneously distracting our attention towards either endless made up, or created boogey men abroad. "It's there, no there, no there, we gotta get 'em!"

    All the while marching off into the sunset...

    Hey Gracy, yeah I agree. I'm not solely blaming Biden for things that were already in motion long before he was elected. There's a temptation to blame big tech, but I can't lay it all at their feet either. I think it goes deeper, as you alluded to. The PTB, the illuminatti, the cabal...whatever one wishes to call it.

    Even Yuri Bezmenov's eerily accurate description of Russian "demoralization" programs isn't enough for me to solely blame the KGB. Goes beyond that. Much wider in scope in my view.

    I don't solely blame the postmodernists, Neo-Marxists, the critical race theorists or the social justice people for all the madness Ive been ranting about either. All this stuff is connected. Part of a larger plan.

    These are all mere branches on the tree. Tools of the totalitarian tiptoe perpetrators, whoever they may be

    I think this is all orchestrated from the top of the pyramid, and mostly everyone below perpetrating it are "useful idiots" as Benzemov calls them. I've played my role as a useful idiot too, by emotionally blaming this person or that group, etc.

    We're all responsible in some way. And now I believe we're all responsible for doing our part in turning it around, however small or big that part may be. Politicians are limited in their power, even the president, but imo the agenda will more easily move forward with Biden in there. Trump may have been motivated mostly by ego, but I think he was still effective in obstructing some of the insanity, like Critical Race Theory for example. Granted, he was also very pro vaccine, but I have a hard time imagining him attempting any big brother tactics in order to get the country vaccinated. But alas, we'll never know. And I've been wrong before (I thought Emery Smith seemed sincere at first! LOL)
    Last edited by Mike; 18th July 2021 at 03:07.

  11. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Brigantia (18th July 2021), Constance (18th July 2021), Ewan (18th July 2021), Gracy (18th July 2021), Jambo (18th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), mountain_jim (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), PurpleLama (21st July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  12. Link to Post #7
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 27,828 times in 3,335 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line
    Last edited by Mashika; 18th July 2021 at 03:28.
    Tired

  13. The Following 19 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Brigantia (18th July 2021), Constance (19th July 2021), Ewan (18th July 2021), Gracy (18th July 2021), Ioneo (18th July 2021), Ivanhoe (19th July 2021), Jambo (18th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Matthew (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), PurpleLama (21st July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), thepainterdoug (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  14. Link to Post #8
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    26th May 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Age
    73
    Posts
    2,450
    Thanks
    11,321
    Thanked 22,059 times in 2,419 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    There has been a dangerous paradigm shift under this criminal, illegitimate, unconstitutional regime that is usurping power and putting targets on certain classes of people. Some people don’t see it (the shift and the usurpation), refuse to see it, won’t accept it, or lie about it. Our livelihoods and lives are in danger.

  15. The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to Satori For This Post:

    Alan (18th July 2021), atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Brigantia (18th July 2021), Constance (19th July 2021), Jambo (18th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Matthew (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), mountain_jim (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), PurpleLama (21st July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), T Smith (19th July 2021), thepainterdoug (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  16. Link to Post #9
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th November 2012
    Posts
    3,020
    Thanks
    5,475
    Thanked 13,120 times in 2,678 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    See "When Face Masks Aren't Enough"

    https://geoffolson.substack.com/

  17. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to AutumnW For This Post:

    Alan (18th July 2021), atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021)

  18. Link to Post #10
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    Last edited by Mike; 18th July 2021 at 04:13.

  19. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Constance (19th July 2021), Ivanhoe (19th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), mountain_jim (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), PurpleLama (21st July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021), wondering (18th July 2021)

  20. Link to Post #11
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 27,828 times in 3,335 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    But you can say something! Soon after you may get cancelled, but in the terms of the laws, that 's not a prohibition on "free speech" it's a completely different thing that has not rules around it, the cancel culture

    Go on Facebook and say whatever you want, then you will be cancelled it they decided it's not good, but you *did* speak up, so your right to speak up was not cancelled at all

    The best way to enforce fascism is not to go around killing people who you don't like, it's to make the population enforce it themselves. (snitch on your neighbor)

    That way, if someone complains, the gov can just say "we are not involved" thoughts and prayers" "we condemn what happened" etc etc etc, and the message is sent across the country. Little by little a lot of people stops speaking up because they don't want to be the next on the "thoughts and prayers" queue

    Social Zombies are very useful, you know?

    The real free speech that you are thinking about, when you can say what you want and nothing happens and no repercussions? I think that died decades ago, but everyone was still not aware of the smell
    Last edited by Mashika; 18th July 2021 at 05:24.
    Tired

  21. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Ernie Nemeth (18th July 2021), Ioneo (18th July 2021), Ivanhoe (19th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), PurpleLama (21st July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), Tintin (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021)

  22. Link to Post #12
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    But you can say something! Soon after you may get cancelled, but in the terms of the laws, that 's not a prohibition on "free speech" it's a completely different thing that has not rules around it, the cancel culture

    Go on Facebook and say whatever you want, then you will be cancelled it they decided it's not good, but you *did* speak up, so your right to speak up was not cancelled at all

    The best way to enforce fascism is not to go around killing people who you don't like, it's to make the population enforce it themselves. (snitch on your neighbor)

    That way, if someone complains, the gov can just say "we are not involved" thoughts and prayers" "we condemn what happened" etc etc etc, and the message is sent across the country. Little by little a lot of people stops speaking up because they don't want to be the next on the "thoughts and prayers" queue

    Social Zombies are very useful, you know?

    The real free speech that you are thinking about, when you can say what you want and nothing happens and no repercussions? I think that died decades ago, but everyone was still not aware of the smell

    Yes, you can say it momentarily maybe. But then it gets removed. And you can't say it again (unless you want to get kicked off the platform). That's the consequence. You're right, and fair enough. But the concept of free speech involves free speech in perpetuity. In other words, it's not free speech if you can only say it once. That's not how the 1rst amendment is written. Perhaps this is all done very differently in Russia.

    Anyway, regardless of how one defines it, the point is that free speech in America is being highly corrupted. Facebook is only one way in which it's being corrupted. FB is a business entity, so they can legally dictate what people say on their platform. The problem though, is twofold. Firstly they have a near monopoly on online communication. And second, the United States government is now dictating what's allowed and what isn't on FB. So the US gov is now controlling free speech thru FB. That's unconstitutional, which is a major no-no here.

    The US does not have "hate speech" laws, thankfully, so you cannot get into any legal trouble for saying what you want to say. Free speech is only restricted, legally, in a few instances: threatening violence, saying "bomb" on an airplane, "fire" in a movie theatre..and things like that (when there is no bomb or fire). Cancel culture generally involves private business entities firing people for saying or writing something that is politically incorrect, so that's a whole other monster.
    Last edited by Mike; 18th July 2021 at 07:51.

  23. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021), toppy (18th July 2021)

  24. Link to Post #13
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 27,828 times in 3,335 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    But you can say something! Soon after you may get cancelled, but in the terms of the laws, that 's not a prohibition on "free speech" it's a completely different thing that has not rules around it, the cancel culture

    Go on Facebook and say whatever you want, then you will be cancelled it they decided it's not good, but you *did* speak up, so your right to speak up was not cancelled at all

    The best way to enforce fascism is not to go around killing people who you don't like, it's to make the population enforce it themselves. (snitch on your neighbor)

    That way, if someone complains, the gov can just say "we are not involved" thoughts and prayers" "we condemn what happened" etc etc etc, and the message is sent across the country. Little by little a lot of people stops speaking up because they don't want to be the next on the "thoughts and prayers" queue

    Social Zombies are very useful, you know?

    The real free speech that you are thinking about, when you can say what you want and nothing happens and no repercussions? I think that died decades ago, but everyone was still not aware of the smell

    Yes, you can say it momentarily maybe. But then it gets removed. And you can't say it again (unless you want to get kicked off the platform). That's the consequence. You're right, and fair enough. But the concept of free speech involves free speech in perpetuity. In other words, it's not free speech if you can only say it once. That's not how the 1rst amendment is written. Perhaps this is all done very differently in Russia.

    Anyway, regardless of how one defines it, the point is that free speech in America is being highly corrupted. Facebook is only one way in which it's being corrupted. FB is a private entity, so they can legally dictate what people say on their platform. The problem though, is twofold. Firstly they have a near monopoly on online communication. And second, the United States government is now dictating what's allowed and what isn't on FB. So the US gov is now controlling free speech thru FB. That's unconstitutional, which is a major no-no here.

    The US does not have "hate speech" laws, thankfully, so you cannot get into any legal trouble for saying what you want to say. Free speech is only restricted, legally, in a few instances: threatening violence, saying "bomb" on an airplane, "fire" in a movie theatre..and things like that (when there is no bomb or fire). Cancel culture generally involves private business entities firing people for saying or writing something that is politically correct, so that's a whole other monster.
    Just to clarify, this is the first amendment, correct?

    Quote Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    https://constitution.congress.gov/co...n/amendment-1/

    Now please tell me where does it says there that you won't be prosecuted or cancelled by having spoken up about something (By the public! Not the government), that the zombies created by your government will immediately cancel along with your business and life, if possible,,, once you said something that was considered 'bad'. You did speak up, yes, no one questions that and your voice was heard, but what happens after that?

    I don't know much about American law, but it does seem you are interpreting it in a way while the written word had a loophole of sorts. I don't know if there is more to it, so if there is please let me know, i'm just working on the understanding of what "free speech" means from what understand so far
    Last edited by Mashika; 18th July 2021 at 06:24.
    Tired

  25. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021)

  26. Link to Post #14
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    But you can say something! Soon after you may get cancelled, but in the terms of the laws, that 's not a prohibition on "free speech" it's a completely different thing that has not rules around it, the cancel culture

    Go on Facebook and say whatever you want, then you will be cancelled it they decided it's not good, but you *did* speak up, so your right to speak up was not cancelled at all

    The best way to enforce fascism is not to go around killing people who you don't like, it's to make the population enforce it themselves. (snitch on your neighbor)

    That way, if someone complains, the gov can just say "we are not involved" thoughts and prayers" "we condemn what happened" etc etc etc, and the message is sent across the country. Little by little a lot of people stops speaking up because they don't want to be the next on the "thoughts and prayers" queue

    Social Zombies are very useful, you know?

    The real free speech that you are thinking about, when you can say what you want and nothing happens and no repercussions? I think that died decades ago, but everyone was still not aware of the smell

    Yes, you can say it momentarily maybe. But then it gets removed. And you can't say it again (unless you want to get kicked off the platform). That's the consequence. You're right, and fair enough. But the concept of free speech involves free speech in perpetuity. In other words, it's not free speech if you can only say it once. That's not how the 1rst amendment is written. Perhaps this is all done very differently in Russia.

    Anyway, regardless of how one defines it, the point is that free speech in America is being highly corrupted. Facebook is only one way in which it's being corrupted. FB is a private entity, so they can legally dictate what people say on their platform. The problem though, is twofold. Firstly they have a near monopoly on online communication. And second, the United States government is now dictating what's allowed and what isn't on FB. So the US gov is now controlling free speech thru FB. That's unconstitutional, which is a major no-no here.

    The US does not have "hate speech" laws, thankfully, so you cannot get into any legal trouble for saying what you want to say. Free speech is only restricted, legally, in a few instances: threatening violence, saying "bomb" on an airplane, "fire" in a movie theatre..and things like that (when there is no bomb or fire). Cancel culture generally involves private business entities firing people for saying or writing something that is politically correct, so that's a whole other monster.
    Just to clarify, this is the first amendment, correct?

    Quote Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    https://constitution.congress.gov/co...n/amendment-1/

    Now please tell me where does it says there that you won't be prosecuted or cancelled by having spoken up about something (By the public! Not the government), that the zombies created by your government will immediately cancel along with your business and life, if possible,,, once you said something that was considered 'bad'. You did speak up, yes, no one questions that and your voice was heard, but what happens after that?

    I don't know much about American law, but it does seem you are interpreting it in a way while the written word had a loophole of sorts. I don't know if there is more to it, so if there is please let me know, i'm just working on the understanding of what "free speech" means from what understand so far


    People get cancelled all the time here now. And it's usually for speech or something written. But as I said in my previous post, the cancelling is done by private business entities. They have their own rules. So you can get fired from your job for saying all sorts of things. Our athletes get fined all the time for criticizing referees, for example. Stuff like that.

    But they don't get prosecuted. There are no legal ramifications. They don't go to jail. They are not arrested. The 1rst amendment protects them - legally - in their freedom of speech. But a private business entitiy can fire someone if their speech is "contrary to our values". So that's the distinction.

  27. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), Reinhard (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021)

  28. Link to Post #15
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 27,828 times in 3,335 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    But you can say something! Soon after you may get cancelled, but in the terms of the laws, that 's not a prohibition on "free speech" it's a completely different thing that has not rules around it, the cancel culture

    Go on Facebook and say whatever you want, then you will be cancelled it they decided it's not good, but you *did* speak up, so your right to speak up was not cancelled at all

    The best way to enforce fascism is not to go around killing people who you don't like, it's to make the population enforce it themselves. (snitch on your neighbor)

    That way, if someone complains, the gov can just say "we are not involved" thoughts and prayers" "we condemn what happened" etc etc etc, and the message is sent across the country. Little by little a lot of people stops speaking up because they don't want to be the next on the "thoughts and prayers" queue

    Social Zombies are very useful, you know?

    The real free speech that you are thinking about, when you can say what you want and nothing happens and no repercussions? I think that died decades ago, but everyone was still not aware of the smell

    Yes, you can say it momentarily maybe. But then it gets removed. And you can't say it again (unless you want to get kicked off the platform). That's the consequence. You're right, and fair enough. But the concept of free speech involves free speech in perpetuity. In other words, it's not free speech if you can only say it once. That's not how the 1rst amendment is written. Perhaps this is all done very differently in Russia.

    Anyway, regardless of how one defines it, the point is that free speech in America is being highly corrupted. Facebook is only one way in which it's being corrupted. FB is a private entity, so they can legally dictate what people say on their platform. The problem though, is twofold. Firstly they have a near monopoly on online communication. And second, the United States government is now dictating what's allowed and what isn't on FB. So the US gov is now controlling free speech thru FB. That's unconstitutional, which is a major no-no here.

    The US does not have "hate speech" laws, thankfully, so you cannot get into any legal trouble for saying what you want to say. Free speech is only restricted, legally, in a few instances: threatening violence, saying "bomb" on an airplane, "fire" in a movie theatre..and things like that (when there is no bomb or fire). Cancel culture generally involves private business entities firing people for saying or writing something that is politically correct, so that's a whole other monster.
    Just to clarify, this is the first amendment, correct?

    Quote Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    https://constitution.congress.gov/co...n/amendment-1/

    Now please tell me where does it says there that you won't be prosecuted or cancelled by having spoken up about something (By the public! Not the government), that the zombies created by your government will immediately cancel along with your business and life, if possible,,, once you said something that was considered 'bad'. You did speak up, yes, no one questions that and your voice was heard, but what happens after that?

    I don't know much about American law, but it does seem you are interpreting it in a way while the written word had a loophole of sorts. I don't know if there is more to it, so if there is please let me know, i'm just working on the understanding of what "free speech" means from what understand so far


    People get cancelled all the time here now. And it's usually for speech or something written. But as I said in my previous post, the cancelling is done by private business entities. They have their own rules. So you can get fired from your job for saying all sorts of things. Our athletes get fined all the time for criticizing referees, for example. Stuff like that.

    But they don't get prosecuted. There are no legal ramifications. They don't go to jail. They are not arrested. The 1rst amendment protects them - legally - in their freedom of speech. But a private business entitiy can fire someone if their speech is "contrary to our values". So that's the distinction.
    The main problem i see is "people get cancelled all the time her now"

    It doesn't matter if it was a private business or whatever. The problem is, "it happened"

    Assange and Snowden are clear examples of it. Assange is not even a US citizen lol.

    The level of it is out there, it has been for lots of years. It just "Tricle down" over time, until everyone else starts following. You are saying this today, but it has been in the working for decades now

    This is not "happening". It already did decades ago, that's all i'm trying to say
    Tired

  29. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021)

  30. Link to Post #16
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    But you can say something! Soon after you may get cancelled, but in the terms of the laws, that 's not a prohibition on "free speech" it's a completely different thing that has not rules around it, the cancel culture

    Go on Facebook and say whatever you want, then you will be cancelled it they decided it's not good, but you *did* speak up, so your right to speak up was not cancelled at all

    The best way to enforce fascism is not to go around killing people who you don't like, it's to make the population enforce it themselves. (snitch on your neighbor)

    That way, if someone complains, the gov can just say "we are not involved" thoughts and prayers" "we condemn what happened" etc etc etc, and the message is sent across the country. Little by little a lot of people stops speaking up because they don't want to be the next on the "thoughts and prayers" queue

    Social Zombies are very useful, you know?

    The real free speech that you are thinking about, when you can say what you want and nothing happens and no repercussions? I think that died decades ago, but everyone was still not aware of the smell

    Yes, you can say it momentarily maybe. But then it gets removed. And you can't say it again (unless you want to get kicked off the platform). That's the consequence. You're right, and fair enough. But the concept of free speech involves free speech in perpetuity. In other words, it's not free speech if you can only say it once. That's not how the 1rst amendment is written. Perhaps this is all done very differently in Russia.

    Anyway, regardless of how one defines it, the point is that free speech in America is being highly corrupted. Facebook is only one way in which it's being corrupted. FB is a private entity, so they can legally dictate what people say on their platform. The problem though, is twofold. Firstly they have a near monopoly on online communication. And second, the United States government is now dictating what's allowed and what isn't on FB. So the US gov is now controlling free speech thru FB. That's unconstitutional, which is a major no-no here.

    The US does not have "hate speech" laws, thankfully, so you cannot get into any legal trouble for saying what you want to say. Free speech is only restricted, legally, in a few instances: threatening violence, saying "bomb" on an airplane, "fire" in a movie theatre..and things like that (when there is no bomb or fire). Cancel culture generally involves private business entities firing people for saying or writing something that is politically correct, so that's a whole other monster.
    Just to clarify, this is the first amendment, correct?

    Quote Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    https://constitution.congress.gov/co...n/amendment-1/

    Now please tell me where does it says there that you won't be prosecuted or cancelled by having spoken up about something (By the public! Not the government), that the zombies created by your government will immediately cancel along with your business and life, if possible,,, once you said something that was considered 'bad'. You did speak up, yes, no one questions that and your voice was heard, but what happens after that?

    I don't know much about American law, but it does seem you are interpreting it in a way while the written word had a loophole of sorts. I don't know if there is more to it, so if there is please let me know, i'm just working on the understanding of what "free speech" means from what understand so far


    People get cancelled all the time here now. And it's usually for speech or something written. But as I said in my previous post, the cancelling is done by private business entities. They have their own rules. So you can get fired from your job for saying all sorts of things. Our athletes get fined all the time for criticizing referees, for example. Stuff like that.

    But they don't get prosecuted. There are no legal ramifications. They don't go to jail. They are not arrested. The 1rst amendment protects them - legally - in their freedom of speech. But a private business entitiy can fire someone if their speech is "contrary to our values". So that's the distinction.
    The main problem i see is "people get cancelled all the time her now"

    It doesn't matter if it was a private business or whatever. The problem is, "it happened"

    Assange and Snowden are clear examples of it. Assange is not even a US citizen lol.

    The level of it is out there, it has been for lots of years. It just "Tricle down" over time, until everyone else starts following. You are saying this today, but it has been in the working for decades now

    This is not "happening". It already did decades ago, that's all i'm trying to say

    Yes, people getting cancelled is a huge problem! Couldn't agree more Masha. I've had a few things to say about that in my billions of bitchy threads on the matter. Maybe you've noticed

    The example here is slightly confusing because FB is a business entity, and therefore can dictate what people say and write on the platform. That's perfectly legal. The issue is that the US government is now meddling with it, by telling FB which posts are appropriate and which are not.

    So speech is being censored illegally, in this instance (at least I think it is. I'm not a legal scholar but this seems very wrong. Of course the US gov is presenting this as "suggestions" to FB, and not orders, which is a verbal sleight of hand to avoid accusations of free speech tampering) And speech is being censored legally, usually thru social pressure by way of "cancelling". Both are pretty egregious. But there is a distinction.

    Never in US history, that I'm aware of, has the US government so openly and unapologetically meddled with our free speech laws. That's what I found so shocking ...not that they were doing it, but that they were doing it so openly

  31. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021)

  32. Link to Post #17
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 27,828 times in 3,335 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Free speech is not in the way to be cancelled, it will remain available forever. However, there are some considerations authoritarian states enforce

    1. You can say whatever you want, but you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. No one will stop you from speaking up, because "It's your right", and they will say that with straight faces on a nice press conference
    2. If what you said, while speaking up, is good for the regime, then it's not "hateful" speech, and you will keep going on happily. But don't think, in the wonderful feeling of being uncensored, that you can also do go against the state in some items. It's a one way road.
    3. You are only a patriot as long as you always toe the line, if you differ on some points, it's over for you, cancel time

    The individual is cancelled, not a global free speech right. So if anyone asks, they can just say "Of course we have free speech! Look at this and that, everyone can say whatever they want!" and they forget to mention the part where you get to deal with the consequences in real time, and get cancelled and lose everything. So yeah, Speaking up is free, there's no lie on that

    Free speech is defined as some kind of broken logic and mental illness the way i can see it. You can talk about whatever you want, but then you will be judged. Real free speech is not around anymore, since very long time ago, it's all a show and fabrication of the perception that people have it, as long as it doesn't go beyond some line

    All good points.

    However, free speech really is being cancelled by way of big tech (and whatever force is behind it). There's the "free speech" you're referring to, which of course isn't really free because of the consequences..as you pointed out. And now there's things you simply can't say publicly, on social media, because it's removed or censored. There are no consequences because you can't even say it to begin with!(or write it).

    It's all done thru a series of acceptances. The "totalitarian tiptoe" as David Icke says. If the people accept the censorship of opposing ideas on vaccinations or election fraud, what's next? If it isn't stopped it will only multiply and flourish. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", Thomas Jefferson was rumored to have said.

    You should be judged for your speech. I have no problem with that. But first you need the opportunity to say something.
    But you can say something! Soon after you may get cancelled, but in the terms of the laws, that 's not a prohibition on "free speech" it's a completely different thing that has not rules around it, the cancel culture

    Go on Facebook and say whatever you want, then you will be cancelled it they decided it's not good, but you *did* speak up, so your right to speak up was not cancelled at all

    The best way to enforce fascism is not to go around killing people who you don't like, it's to make the population enforce it themselves. (snitch on your neighbor)

    That way, if someone complains, the gov can just say "we are not involved" thoughts and prayers" "we condemn what happened" etc etc etc, and the message is sent across the country. Little by little a lot of people stops speaking up because they don't want to be the next on the "thoughts and prayers" queue

    Social Zombies are very useful, you know?

    The real free speech that you are thinking about, when you can say what you want and nothing happens and no repercussions? I think that died decades ago, but everyone was still not aware of the smell

    Yes, you can say it momentarily maybe. But then it gets removed. And you can't say it again (unless you want to get kicked off the platform). That's the consequence. You're right, and fair enough. But the concept of free speech involves free speech in perpetuity. In other words, it's not free speech if you can only say it once. That's not how the 1rst amendment is written. Perhaps this is all done very differently in Russia.

    Anyway, regardless of how one defines it, the point is that free speech in America is being highly corrupted. Facebook is only one way in which it's being corrupted. FB is a private entity, so they can legally dictate what people say on their platform. The problem though, is twofold. Firstly they have a near monopoly on online communication. And second, the United States government is now dictating what's allowed and what isn't on FB. So the US gov is now controlling free speech thru FB. That's unconstitutional, which is a major no-no here.

    The US does not have "hate speech" laws, thankfully, so you cannot get into any legal trouble for saying what you want to say. Free speech is only restricted, legally, in a few instances: threatening violence, saying "bomb" on an airplane, "fire" in a movie theatre..and things like that (when there is no bomb or fire). Cancel culture generally involves private business entities firing people for saying or writing something that is politically correct, so that's a whole other monster.
    Just to clarify, this is the first amendment, correct?

    Quote Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    https://constitution.congress.gov/co...n/amendment-1/

    Now please tell me where does it says there that you won't be prosecuted or cancelled by having spoken up about something (By the public! Not the government), that the zombies created by your government will immediately cancel along with your business and life, if possible,,, once you said something that was considered 'bad'. You did speak up, yes, no one questions that and your voice was heard, but what happens after that?

    I don't know much about American law, but it does seem you are interpreting it in a way while the written word had a loophole of sorts. I don't know if there is more to it, so if there is please let me know, i'm just working on the understanding of what "free speech" means from what understand so far


    People get cancelled all the time here now. And it's usually for speech or something written. But as I said in my previous post, the cancelling is done by private business entities. They have their own rules. So you can get fired from your job for saying all sorts of things. Our athletes get fined all the time for criticizing referees, for example. Stuff like that.

    But they don't get prosecuted. There are no legal ramifications. They don't go to jail. They are not arrested. The 1rst amendment protects them - legally - in their freedom of speech. But a private business entitiy can fire someone if their speech is "contrary to our values". So that's the distinction.
    The main problem i see is "people get cancelled all the time her now"

    It doesn't matter if it was a private business or whatever. The problem is, "it happened"

    Assange and Snowden are clear examples of it. Assange is not even a US citizen lol.

    The level of it is out there, it has been for lots of years. It just "Tricle down" over time, until everyone else starts following. You are saying this today, but it has been in the working for decades now

    This is not "happening". It already did decades ago, that's all i'm trying to say

    Yes, people getting cancelled is a huge problem! Couldn't agree more Masha. I've had a few things to say about that in my billions of bitchy threads on the matter. Maybe you've noticed

    The example here is slightly confusing because FB is a business entity, and therefore can dictate what people say and write on the platform. That's perfectly legal. The issue is that the US government is now meddling with it, by telling FB which posts are appropriate and which are not.

    So speech is being censored illegally, in this instance (at least I think it is. I'm not a legal scholar but this seems very wrong. Of course the US gov is presenting this as "suggestions" to FB, and not orders, which is a verbal sleight of hand to avoid accusations of free speech tampering) And speech is being censored legally, usually thru social pressure by way of "cancelling". Both are pretty egregious. But there is a distinction.

    Never in US history, that I'm aware of, has the US government so openly and unapologetically meddled with our free speech laws. That's what I found so shocking ...not that they were doing it, but that they were doing it so openly
    In some middle eastern countries, it is legal to kill a wife if the man thinks she did wrong. The law says so. maybe she did clean the clothes wrong several times, or she cheated, or she was 13 years old and did not know how to act sexually! But... It's the law!

    Do you see what i mean? It's the perception of all those things together. It grows over time until people, in the general public, perceive reality as such. If the parents of the 13 year old girl speak up, they may also face penalty, because "it's the law". And it's done openly! The problem i see is not about the law, but how it's being implemented, so that every says that exact same thing. "It's the law" as messed up as it is, yes "it is the law!"

    So, right now, you are saying "free speech is getting cancelled" but, it happens to "be within the law. Is not free speech cancelled what your primary focus should be, but what other rights, at the root, will be taken away as well.. Because.. It's within the law.
    Last edited by Mashika; 18th July 2021 at 07:55.
    Tired

  33. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021)

  34. Link to Post #18
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 27,828 times in 3,335 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    You mentioned about free speech in Russia.. And it is a very funny thing, but i'll keep it as short as possible. As a way to show you how ridiculous laws are, here's a sample of the Russian constitution:

    Quote Article 68

    1. The Russian language shall be a state language on the whole territory of the Russian Federation.

    2. The Republics shall have the right to establish their own state languages. In the bodies of state authority and local self-government, state institutions of the Republics they shall be used together with the state language of the Russian Federation.

    3. The Russian Federation shall guarantee to all of its peoples the right to preserve their native language and to create conditions for its study and development.
    Which means i can say i belong to Russia, but i'm also allowed to insult badly the cops in "Balachka" which is an old Cossack language or slang from Ukraine. Cops probably would not know what i said, and i could insult them badly. But due to the constitution, they can't do nothing about it! I'm a Cossack, it's my right to speak it!

    Constitutions...
    Last edited by Mashika; 18th July 2021 at 08:13.
    Tired

  35. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021)

  36. Link to Post #19
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    If she cleaned the clothes wrong she definitely doesn't deserve to die. She only deserves a swift uppercut. Right? I'm kidding of course. You never hit a woman with an uppercut..they fall in an ugly heap. But a stiff jab on the other hand, that seems appropriate.

    Ok, so that tasteless joke about domestic violence would likely get me fired if I delivered it on the job. But I wouldn't get arrested for it. See?

    Of course I do see what you mean! I'm stubbornly making the distiction between prosecution and cancellation because you seem to have conflated the 2 above as it pertains to the 1rst amendment.

  37. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mashika (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021)

  38. Link to Post #20
    On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    26th September 2019
    Language
    None
    Posts
    3,411
    Thanks
    10,548
    Thanked 27,828 times in 3,335 posts

    Default Re: Free Speech Restricts Our Freedoms

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    If she cleaned the clothes wrong she definitely doesn't deserve to die. She only deserves a swift uppercut. Right? I'm kidding of course. You never hit a woman with an uppercut..they fall in an ugly heap. But a stiff jab on the other hand, that seems appropriate.

    Ok, so that tasteless joke about domestic violence would likely get me fired if I delivered it on the job. But I wouldn't get arrested for it. See?

    Of course I do see what you mean! I'm stubbornly making the distiction between prosecution and cancellation because you seem to have conflated the 2 above as it pertains to the 1rst amendment.
    Only because i can see it all going into the same direction! From all i have seen so far. It not really very later than when people starts thinking "this is right or this is wrong" that they later idealize., then want to enforce it, and right now, the enforcing part is way back in the past, i believe, Fascism is born out of that, in the end.

    Question: How far before "The end" do you think you guys are?
    Tired

  39. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mashika For This Post:

    atman (18th July 2021), Bill Ryan (18th July 2021), Mike (18th July 2021), Pam (18th July 2021), RunningDeer (18th July 2021)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts