+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Disassociation in China

  1. Link to Post #1
    Avalon Member Peter UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th June 2019
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,073
    Thanks
    7,750
    Thanked 6,754 times in 978 posts

    Default Disassociation in China

    Some of the information revealed in the video is quite shocking from a social perspective.

    A reaction or behaviour that can occur anywhere in isolated instances appears to be a cultural phenomenon in China. Is this an extreme form of cognitive dissonance, cultural apathy or a Chinese anomaly? Or statistically is there no difference compared with other countries?

    Historical reasons are put forward in an attempt to understand it. It certainly seems to indicate something disturbing within the Chinese psyche different from the usual go to arguments.

    Outside of the filmed events themselves the narrator has a lot of experience living in China and speaks Chinese.



  2. The Following 22 Users Say Thank You to Peter UK For This Post:

    Arcturian108 (1st August 2021), avid (1st August 2021), Bill Ryan (1st August 2021), ByTheNorthernSea (1st August 2021), Denise/Dizi (3rd August 2021), Eva2 (1st August 2021), Ewan (1st August 2021), gini (1st August 2021), Gwin Ru (1st August 2021), Harmony (1st August 2021), Inversion (1st August 2021), Ioneo (2nd August 2021), meat suit (1st August 2021), mountain_jim (26th September 2021), onawah (26th September 2021), Open Minded Dude (26th September 2021), Pam (1st August 2021), Reinhard (1st August 2021), rgray222 (1st August 2021), syrwong (1st August 2021), toppy (1st August 2021), Victoria (9th August 2021)

  3. Link to Post #2
    Avalon Member Pam's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th June 2012
    Posts
    3,370
    Thanks
    42,395
    Thanked 27,393 times in 3,308 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    Cognitive dissonance at it's finest. We all have it to varying degrees. It really is a soul deadening structure of the ego. I am trying to become aware of it everyday in myself.

    In the social experiments that were shared, I am guessing most didn't even have to rationalize to themselves why they took no action. There seemed to be a couple of people that had a emotional response yet still did nothing.

    One thing I noticed is that no one seemed to use their cell phones to call the "authorities" for assistance. I wonder, are they afraid to do that? Is it discouraged? In the US it seems that would be the response, at least some of the time.

  4. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Pam For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (1st August 2021), Ewan (1st August 2021), Gwin Ru (1st August 2021), Harmony (1st August 2021), Hym (1st August 2021), Ioneo (2nd August 2021), Open Minded Dude (26th September 2021), Peter UK (1st August 2021), toppy (1st August 2021), Victoria (9th August 2021)

  5. Link to Post #3
    Wales Avalon Member meat suit's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st January 2012
    Location
    on the coast
    Language
    German
    Age
    58
    Posts
    983
    Thanks
    5,737
    Thanked 5,006 times in 904 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    this is really interesting, I have only watched half of this but I get the gist.
    this collective behaviour must be the result of living in a totalitarian regime where it is punishable to object and act against the state.
    in such a regime people live by rules rather than values.

  6. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to meat suit For This Post:

    Bassplayer1 (26th September 2021), Bill Ryan (1st August 2021), Ewan (1st August 2021), gord (2nd August 2021), Gwin Ru (1st August 2021), Harmony (1st August 2021), Ioneo (2nd August 2021), Open Minded Dude (26th September 2021), Pam (1st August 2021), Peace in Oz (2nd August 2021), Peter UK (1st August 2021), toppy (1st August 2021), Victoria (9th August 2021)

  7. Link to Post #4
    Hong Kong Avalon Member syrwong's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Age
    68
    Posts
    794
    Thanks
    1,948
    Thanked 4,565 times in 711 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    Group behaviour is shaped by the social system. It is true there is a great sense of apathy, not my business thinking in the streets of China. This comes from two extreme realities in China corresponding to two different phases of societal order. I will just analysis the case of intervening in a crime.

    The transition between the two phases happened in a very short time, maybe just a few years.

    Phase 1- From modernization reform to say about 5-10 years ago. Although it was relatively safe walking in the streets, it is too dangerous to intervene on a crime. Take exposing a pickpocketer on a bus as an example. You are almost certain to face a few accomplices armed with knives. Indeed many were killed or injured doing this.

    Phase 2- After China transited to a technocracy. The government or the police will handle this. Everywhere there is surveillance. Police can arrive in minutes. Take the bus pickpocketer for example. It is very risky to pickpocket. For one thing, people no longer carry cash. For another, there are surveillance cameras on the bus. You and your whole gang are identified instantly.

    As a matter of fact, street crimes have virtually disappeared in the last few years, especially premeditated crimes.

    The prank/social experiment is very unrealistic. No one kidnaps a boy that big in the streets. It was an amusing thing to watch, as you can see the smile in one of the girls. They just did not know why was going on.


    Where did this apathy originate? Certainly not in the Mao days. People then were taught to be unselfish, intervene everything and report unwanted behaviours. If the prank happened then, you would see a crowd running after the kdnapper.
    Last edited by syrwong; 1st August 2021 at 12:22.

  8. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to syrwong For This Post:

    Arcturian108 (26th September 2021), Bill Ryan (1st August 2021), Gwin Ru (1st August 2021), Harmony (1st August 2021), meat suit (1st August 2021), onawah (26th September 2021), Pam (1st August 2021), Peace in Oz (2nd August 2021), Peter UK (1st August 2021), Reinhard (1st August 2021), rgray222 (1st August 2021), toppy (1st August 2021), Victoria (9th August 2021)

  9. Link to Post #5
    Avalon Member Peter UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th June 2019
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,073
    Thanks
    7,750
    Thanked 6,754 times in 978 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    Quote Posted by syrwong (here)
    The prank/social experiment is very unrealistic. No one kidnaps a boy that big in the streets. It was an amusing thing to watch, as you can see the smile in one of the girls. They just did not know why was going on.
    I think that could only account for a percentage of the reactions. the narrator lived in China for years and witnessed this kind of apathy a great deal, which is why he's indignant about it. What he saw had nothing to do with social experiments which he himself is somewhat critical of.

    There is further information in the video of true stories, one example where a child was left in the street after being knocked down. The child was repeatedly run over within an elapsed time only to die of multiple injuries because of lack of intervention, and it not being anyone's problem. I suspect this really is a substantial societal problem.
    Last edited by Peter UK; 1st August 2021 at 16:34.

  10. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Peter UK For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (1st August 2021), Gwin Ru (1st August 2021), Harmony (1st August 2021), onawah (26th September 2021), Pam (1st August 2021), Peace in Oz (2nd August 2021), Reinhard (1st August 2021), rgray222 (1st August 2021), toppy (1st August 2021), Victoria (9th August 2021)

  11. Link to Post #6
    Hong Kong Avalon Member syrwong's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Age
    68
    Posts
    794
    Thanks
    1,948
    Thanked 4,565 times in 711 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    Quote Posted by Peter UK (here)
    Quote Posted by syrwong (here)
    The prank/social experiment is very unrealistic. No one kidnaps a boy that big in the streets. It was an amusing thing to watch, as you can see the smile in one of the girls. They just did not know why was going on.
    I think that could only account for a percentage of the reactions. the narrator lived in China for years and witnessed this kind apathy a great deal, which is why he's indignant about it. What he saw had nothing to do with social experiments which he himself is somewhat critical of.

    There is further information in the video of true stories, one example where a child was left in the street after being knocked down, He was repeatedly run over within an elapsed time only to die of multiple injuries because of lack of intervention, and it not being anyone's problem. I suspect this really is a substantial societal problem.
    These apathetic and selfish behaviours are very common in big cities, and I think China is very bad in this regard. It could well be one of the worst. That said, it must be cautioned to draw conclusions from Youtube videos. Youtube is always a platform of propaganda. The pranksters could have easily picked the worst ones to show on Youtube, to emphasise their point, or simply to vilify China. Watching the pickpocketing pranks, my opinion is that in about 1/3 of the time, the victim would be informed by the bystander, based on my many years of experience in China. Not all of them are apathetic as is appeared in the videos.

    It is also true that the Chinese treat foreigners better than their own in the case both are strangers, in much sense. This has historical reasons, as with many things. You do have to live in China to form an opinion of your own. Do not fall to a stereotype. It is very dangerous to form an opinion based on videos. Say, if I watch videos mostly from Youtube, I definite would hate those anti-vaxxers.
    Last edited by syrwong; 1st August 2021 at 14:18.

  12. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to syrwong For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (1st August 2021), Gracy (1st August 2021), Harmony (26th September 2021), onawah (26th September 2021), Pam (8th October 2021), Peace in Oz (2nd August 2021), Peter UK (1st August 2021), Reinhard (1st August 2021), toppy (1st August 2021), Victoria (9th August 2021)

  13. Link to Post #7
    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Language
    English, Dutch, German, Limburgs
    Age
    57
    Posts
    22,719
    Thanks
    30,816
    Thanked 125,661 times in 20,817 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    • War with China: Are we closer than we think?:
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ExomatrixTV For This Post:

    Harmony (26th September 2021), Pam (8th October 2021), Peter UK (26th September 2021)

  15. Link to Post #8
    Germany Avalon Member Open Minded Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    21st May 2020
    Language
    German
    Posts
    651
    Thanks
    1,279
    Thanked 5,359 times in 639 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    But this also happens in many 'Western' cities too, also seen from these staged 'experiments' (not a fan of them either). It is certainly appalling but it is really a China-exclusive problem?

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Open Minded Dude For This Post:

    Harmony (26th September 2021), Pam (8th October 2021), Peter UK (26th September 2021)

  17. Link to Post #9
    Avalon Member Peter UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th June 2019
    Language
    English
    Posts
    1,073
    Thanks
    7,750
    Thanked 6,754 times in 978 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    Quote Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)
    But this also happens in many 'Western' cities too, also seen from these staged 'experiments' (not a fan of them either). It is certainly appalling but it is really a China-exclusive problem?
    No, definitely not exclusive and yes, staged events carry with them their own concerns, but to be clear, it's not the apparent violence or criminality, petty or otherwise, that concerns him but the lack of response to such, which he has witnessed numerous times as a long standing inhabitant of the country. He has a 20 year history within China , speaks Chinese, and is married to a Chinese doctor. He is also, in my opinion, a fairly astute observer of life in China generally and has a lot of positive, good things to say as well. He is well aware, that the CCP, for example, is not in any sense the Chinese identity, but is fast imposing itself as such.

    It depends on whether you afford his Channel and commentary any real credibility, having watched a fair bit of it, I would say he was pointing out something that is deeper within the Chinese psyche that probably isn't healthy. It doesn't however make them monsters.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Peter UK For This Post:

    avid (26th September 2021), Harmony (26th September 2021), Matthew (16th November 2022), onawah (26th September 2021), Pam (8th October 2021)

  19. Link to Post #10
    Germany Avalon Member Open Minded Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    21st May 2020
    Language
    German
    Posts
    651
    Thanks
    1,279
    Thanked 5,359 times in 639 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    Quote Posted by Peter UK (here)
    Quote Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)
    But this also happens in many 'Western' cities too, also seen from these staged 'experiments' (not a fan of them either). It is certainly appalling but it is really a China-exclusive problem?
    No, definitely not exclusive and yes, staged events carry with them their own concerns, but to be clear, it's not the apparent violence or criminality, petty or otherwise, that concerns him but the lack of response to such, which he has witnessed numerous times as a long standing inhabitant of the country.
    Maybe I was too short with words in my post above. I was indeed really referring to that lack of response to these events (staged or not) and all the public apathy and not that there's more violence and crime in China on the streets of a big city.

    I think we might at least get similar results with similar footage showing apathetic, fearful or condescending passers-by with any criminal event in any Western city (US, Australia or America).

    Also, if you live in a big city, again: anywhere in the world, you might constantly be scammed (e.g. by organised 'beggar' clans) or pranked each day, so you might indeed get apathetic or cautious to it in your reactions, especially if on a busy day on the streets and pedestrian zones you it might have to deal with the 5th in a row. So I think this could also happen here with 'us' in the West. It's not good and I don't want to excuse this behaviour but it might explain some of the reactions to the child asking for money. After a while you just fend off anyone because it is enough, at least for that day.

    I am therefore not yet really convinced. While it might be a bit more extreme in China due to their mentality forged by living under an authoritarian state for decades and knowing nothing else, the difference to the 'West' is maybe not as huge as he wants to make us believe.

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Open Minded Dude For This Post:

    Harmony (8th October 2021), onawah (26th September 2021), Peter UK (26th September 2021)

  21. Link to Post #11
    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Language
    English, Dutch, German, Limburgs
    Age
    57
    Posts
    22,719
    Thanks
    30,816
    Thanked 125,661 times in 20,817 posts

    Default Re: Disassociation in China

    • China THREATENING To Nuke Japan? What's Their END GAME?
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts