The HBO show White Lotus, and my realization.

[thepainterdoug]

White Lotus is an extraordinary dark comedy on HBO that has to be seen to be understood.

In watching this, one is apt to think who they identify with?
And watching all these sad dysfunctional people, I finally realized the brilliance here.

Im everyone. Every character in all the veneers, posturing and all their pain.

I am all of them.

i heard it said we are born in order to find our way back to God . I see that

we need to be everything, every illusion of greatness , and every loss , to see that its all the same. All a dead end, as it all will pass.

we are given time to discover this and to find our way back to rediscover god.

Its just up to us as to how much time we choose to take.

well thats what I see.

[Tyy1907]

Fascinating perspective Doug.

[Mike]

There's a book called 'Ordinary Men' that tells the tale of regular, middle class, German police officers that were asked to do some policing in Poland during World War 2. But shortly after arriving they were asked to do some unexpected, horrifying things. Some of these things involved taking naked pregnant women out into the fields and shooting them in the head.

These were not evil men. They did not want to do what they did. It made them physically ill. It tortured them mentally and emotionally. These were not S.S. officers. They were "ordinary men," as the book's title suggests. The main reason they gave for doing what they did was this: they knew if they didn't do it one of their fellow officers would be made to do it.

It's been said that one should always view history as one of the perpetrators. Not as a hero. That's how horrors like Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia can repeat themselves - when people view the events and people of those times as being separate from themselves. The key to avoiding another disaster like that is admitting that they are you and you are them...and under a certain set of circumstances anyone is capable of pretty much anything.

I once created a thread called 'You Are The Illuminatti'. And it was to suggest something similar...that under the right set of circumstances any one of us could have been a part of that group, participating in all sorts of horrifying acts. It got the resistance I thought it would, which actually frightened me. Because as I said, the first step to avoiding such things involves an admission that one is capable of such things. This is the basis of "shadow work".

It's hard for me to judge these people. Like Doug suggests, I realize I am them and they are me. I don't just mean that metaphorically; I believe strongly that I have been or will be in a future life a tyrant, murderer, rapist, sadist..you name it. I have also been or will be a hero, savior, philanthropist, humanitarian etc. In a relative world we have to experience it all to understand it all

[Pam]

Posted by Mike (here)
There's a book called 'Ordinary Men' that tells the tale of regular, middle class, German police officers that were asked to do some policing in Poland during World War 2. But shortly after arriving they were asked to do some unexpected, horrifying things. Some of these things involved taking naked pregnant women out into the fields and shooting them in the head.

These were not evil men. They did not want to do what they did. It made them physically ill. It tortured them mentally and emotionally. These were not S.S. officers. They were "ordinary men," as the book's title suggests. The main reason they gave for doing what they did was this: they knew if they didn't do it one of their fellow officers would be made to do it.

It's been said that one should always view history as one of the perpetrators. Not as a hero. That's how horrors like Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia can repeat themselves - when people view the events and people of those times as being separate from themselves. The key to avoiding another disaster like that is admitting that they are you and you are them...and under a certain set of circumstances anyone is capable of pretty much anything.

I once created a thread called 'You Are The Illuminatti'. And it was to suggest something similar...that under the right set of circumstances any one of us could have been a part of that group, participating in all sorts of horrifying acts. It got the resistance I thought it would, which actually frightened me. Because as I said, the first step to avoiding such things involves an admission that one is capable of such things. This is the basis of "shadow work".

It's hard for me to judge these people. Like Doug suggests, I realize I am them and they are me. I don't just mean that metaphorically; I believe strongly that I have been or will be in a future life a tyrant, murderer, rapist, sadist..you name it. I have also been or will be a hero, savior, philanthropist, humanitarian etc. In a relative world we have to experience it all to understand it all

I wrote somewhere in another thread that inspired by Jordon Peterson I imagined myself a nazi guard and wanted to mentally imagine enjoying the power and authority I had. I wasn't able to do it by imagining my prisoners were there for ethnic, political or religious reasons. I changed my mental imaginings and created multiple scenarios and came up with a situation where I could not only enjoy my authority but be abusive with that authority. I imagined I was guarding those that maliciously harm children or animals and are unrepentant. Given the right circumstances, I have a very dark shadow.

[thepainterdoug]

mike great observations. all the characters in the show i mentioned are not really bad people, and they themselves probably dont see themselves and being so. some selfish, some spoiled, some insensitive, nasty, jealous etc. i have been all these and more at varying times and situations.
know the saying, you spot it, you got it ?

I agree with you. one must first admit and realize its all within us to be able to choose and control it

the most common new age saying i hear today is " all is one" yet i dont think people really understand what they are saying


Pam/ its great to realize our dark shadow. as a kid i took joy in having power over some animals, catching frogs and turtles etc today im not like that and value all living things. but the other day i pulled these beautiful flowers out off a tree to give to someone, only after thinking of the flowers being torn from their life.

even the biggest pacifist has killed living things. its all a matter of degree

[Pam]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
mike great observations. all the characters in the show i mentioned are not really bad people, and they themselves probably dont see themselves and being so. some selfish, some spoiled, some insensitive, nasty, jealous etc. i have been all these and more at varying times and situations.
know the saying, you spot it, you got it ?

I agree with you. one must first admit and realize its all within us to be able to choose and control it

the most common new age saying i hear today is " all is one" yet i dont think people really understand what they are saying


Pam/ its great to realize our dark shadow. as a kid i took joy in having power over some animals, catching frogs and turtles etc today im not like that and value all living things. but the other day i pulled these beautiful flowers out off a tree to give to someone, only after thinking of the flowers being torn from their life.

even the biggest pacifist has killed living things. its all a matter of degree

My point wasn't to make a judgement on any behavior, my point is that I carry within myself the ability to do evil to be evil under the right circumstances. The reason I bring that up in your thread is that there is benefit, as you stated in seeing ourselves in the broken, in the down trodden, in the proud, greedy and vain, but their is also huge freedom in seeing that we ourselves carry the capacity for evil that most of us deplore. A great freedom.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Mike (here)
I believe strongly that I have been or will be in a future life a tyrant, murderer, rapist, sadist..you name it.

It doesn't really work like that. For the majority of us these things lie behind, not ahead. It's almost impossible to draw parallels between the physical dimension and the timeless world of spirit, as they're governed by completely different laws. But there is one thing they do share in common, one property which marries them together, and that's forward advancement.

We are All Things, because we are all connected to all other things - like a drop of water in the ocean is the ocean. The ocean is this one giant, heaving mass containing an infinity of drops, but each drop contains its individual properties. That's what makes them (us) unique. The drops don't arbitrarily 'switch places' though, as they're all on their own personal, individual journeys.

You have a good soul Mike, and you've achieved that goodness through many lives of hard work. I can see (and I assume you can see) no reason whatsoever why you ever want to suddenly adhere to the dark energy and plummet to the point where you'd wish, suddenly, to live a life as a psychopath. You are beyond that point in the journey. You have reached a stage in development where dark energies, where and when they try to attach (and they do try all the time), have no power over you.

'Evil' is not a necessary part of the soul's journey. One can stray that far in polarity if one wishes, but one doesn't have to be evil in order to know evil, and oppose it. It certainly isn't a condition for progress: it's an aberration in the system not a feature of the system.

Tyrants and murderers and psychos are essentially made two ways: by severe energetic damage to the soul and psyche of an individual from abuses experienced in this life or previous lives that are now acting out, or it simply happens organically in those naturally attuned and attracted to evil - in other words by choice. Think people who choose to incarnate into a location or situation that will give them that experience.

Regression of development is of course still possible, but that's linked to karma, such as making the same mistakes life after life and slipping further and further behind. Essentially our advancement is driven by choice, where we want to go, what we want to experience, and what we need to learn to achieve more awareness, higher vibration etc. It's always an upward curve. Evolution follows a natural and logical path, in the spiritual as well as the physical. So there's no philanthropist this life, mass murderer the next.

[Savannah]

It doesn't really work like that. For the majority of us these things lie behind, not ahead. It's almost impossible to draw parallels between the physical dimension and the timeless world of spirit, as they're governed by completely different laws. But there is one thing they do share in common, one property which marries them together, and that's forward advancement.

We are All Things, because we are all connected to all other things - like a drop of water in the ocean is the ocean. The ocean is this one giant, heaving mass containing an infinity of drops, but each drop contains its individual properties. That's what makes them (us) unique. The drops don't arbitrarily 'switch places' though, as they're all on their own personal, individual journeys.

You have a good soul Mike, and you've achieved that goodness through many lives of hard work. I can see (and I assume you can see) no reason whatsoever why you ever want to suddenly adhere to the dark energy and plummet to the point where you'd wish, suddenly, to live a life as a psychopath. You are beyond that point in the journey. You have reached a stage in development where dark energies, where and when they try to attach (and they do try all the time), have no power over you.

'Evil' is not a necessary part of the soul's journey. One can stray that far in polarity if one wishes, but one doesn't have to be evil in order to know evil, and oppose it. It certainly isn't a condition for progress: it's an aberration in the system not a feature of the system.

Tyrants and murderers and psychos are essentially made two ways: by severe energetic damage to the soul and psyche of an individual from abuses experienced in this life or previous lives that are now acting out, or it simply happens organically in those naturally attuned and attracted to evil - in other words by choice. Think people who choose to incarnate into a location or situation that will give them that experience.

Regression of development is of course still possible, but that's linked to karma, such as making the same mistakes life after life and slipping further and further behind. Essentially our advancement is driven by choice, where we want to go, what we want to experience, and what we need to learn to achieve more awareness, higher vibration etc. It's always an upward curve. Evolution follows a natural and logical path, in the spiritual as well as the physical. So there's no philanthropist this life, mass murderer the next.

I think I can understand, empathize with evil because I have lived lives with those individuals in most of my incarnations. All energy comes from source but we choose by free will our orientation or spin charge of positive or negative. As Star Mariner points out we come from the one source of energy but are differentiated into individual consciousness envelopes. I will eventually return to that one source, however a negative polarity spin cant, unless they change polarity to the positive. Therefore the negative is not me and never will be me, it is in it's own separate envelope eating off of me because they cant reach source energy. I just understand the negative because I have developed insight and knowing that comes from source by experiencing the physical dimension through incarnation.

[rgray222]

This very short story called 'The Egg' was written by Andy Weir long before he wrote the Martian. I have posted this on Avalon before and I believe it is appropriate here.

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.

And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.

You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you God?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”

“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”

You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.

“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”

“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”

“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”

“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”

“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.

I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”

“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a God?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg,” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”

And I sent you on your way

Source; Andy Weir
The Egg

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

^ a fun story, but it paints a very false picture.

Actually, the idea that you, as the single consciousness in the Universe, had to live each and every life for ALL TIME, yourself, individually, is not a fun story in any shape or form. It's the most terrifying nightmare imaginable.

[Mike]

Posted by Star Mariner (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
I believe strongly that I have been or will be in a future life a tyrant, murderer, rapist, sadist..you name it.

It doesn't really work like that. For the majority of us these things lie behind, not ahead. It's almost impossible to draw parallels between the physical dimension and the timeless world of spirit, as they're governed by completely different laws. But there is one thing they do share in common, one property which marries them together, and that's forward advancement.

We are All Things, because we are all connected to all other things - like a drop of water in the ocean is the ocean. The ocean is this one giant, heaving mass containing an infinity of drops, but each drop contains its individual properties. That's what makes them (us) unique. The drops don't arbitrarily 'switch places' though, as they're all on their own personal, individual journeys.

You have a good soul Mike, and you've achieved that goodness through many lives of hard work. I can see (and I assume you can see) no reason whatsoever why you ever want to suddenly adhere to the dark energy and plummet to the point where you'd wish, suddenly, to live a life as a psychopath. You are beyond that point in the journey. You have reached a stage in development where dark energies, where and when they try to attach (and they do try all the time), have no power over you.

'Evil' is not a necessary part of the soul's journey. One can stray that far in polarity if one wishes, but one doesn't have to be evil in order to know evil, and oppose it. It certainly isn't a condition for progress: it's an aberration in the system not a feature of the system.

Tyrants and murderers and psychos are essentially made two ways: by severe energetic damage to the soul and psyche of an individual from abuses experienced in this life or previous lives that are now acting out, or it simply happens organically in those naturally attuned and attracted to evil - in other words by choice. Think people who choose to incarnate into a location or situation that will give them that experience.

Regression of development is of course still possible, but that's linked to karma, such as making the same mistakes life after life and slipping further and further behind. Essentially our advancement is driven by choice, where we want to go, what we want to experience, and what we need to learn to achieve more awareness, higher vibration etc. It's always an upward curve. Evolution follows a natural and logical path, in the spiritual as well as the physical. So there's no philanthropist this life, mass murderer the next.

I would say we're all vulnerable to peforming an evil act(s) in any incarnation, if we're not hyper vigilant about our potential to do such things..regardless of how evolved we are or imagine ourselves to be.

Even more important perhaps than one's upward evolution is the situation one finds oneself in. I may be more evolved/spiritually mature than I was in my last incarnation (if we assume evolution is always perfectly linear) but if my current incarnation is significantly more challenging I may be more likely to do something evil. If in my last lifetime I was a rich guy living a soft life in a luxurious bubble, I wouldn't find myself in the position of making heavy, existential decisions; if in this lifetime I was put in prison unfairly I might be required to join a gang, kill or maim for that gang, and so on.

The example I gave above in my previous post is a better one. Those German police officers were regular people. They were regarded as good people by their community. They were family men. Had the war never occured they would have carried on being good people. But under certain circumstances even good people can do horrifying things. I don't necessarily think any kind of spiritual regression or advancement was involved here..I just think the police officers found themselves in an unprecedented situation.

This is illustrated well in Victor Frankl's book about the holocaust, 'Man's Search For Meaning'. It was not uncommon for the captured Jews to steal and backstab their fellow prisoners. Some of that stealing and backstabbing resulted in deaths. Some acted as informers for the Nazi guards. And so on. But it's not because they were unevolved. It's not because they were inherently bad people. It was the extreme situation they found themselves in.

Under the right amount of pressure, anyone can crack. That's the point I was really trying to make. Perhaps inwardly we become better people by some spiritual measure, life after life..but outwardly we're still capable of heinous acts under certain conditions. In that way, the community leader of a previous lifetime can be a murderer in this life; the philanthropist can become the sadist..and so on. It's not that one would consciously choose to regress or become dark/evil after a lifetime of general goodness, it's more like certain unforeseen situations may exceed their threshold for resistance, in which case they may fail to demonstrate that goodness (and actually behave in a contrary manner). And I don't necessarily think that makes them evil. I think it makes them human

[Ernie Nemeth]

Like taking the poisonous covid shot, I would never take regardless of circumstances even if it requires me to die on the street, in the exact same way, I would never kill on command. Then again I would never be a soldier either. Nor would I buy a gun or carry a knife or learn jujitsu or any other martial art. Learn to kill, learn to fight, and killing and fighting will find you.

[Mike]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Like taking the poisonous covid shot, I would never take regardless of circumstances even if it requires me to die on the street, in the exact same way, I would never kill on command. Then again I would never be a soldier either. Nor would I buy a gun or carry a knife or learn jujitsu or any other martial art. Learn to kill, learn to fight, and killing and fighting will find you.

That all may be true Ernie! It's quite possible...

But the fact of the matter is, we never actually know with any kind of certainty what we'll do in certain challenging situations. Mostly anyone who has committed any kind of regrettable act would have likely said exactly what you said above if asked about it beforehand. "I'd never do that in a million years! Not under any circumstances!" ...and then they do it. That's the story of the human race in one sense

I just got into an argument with a male friend over something like this. Our mutual friend, female, works in healthcare and is required to get the vaccine (if she wants to keep her job). This job is a very lucrative one, mind you. But my male friend is being very judgmental about it. He said what you said, that under NO circumstance would he get the jab, and he simply can't believe she might go thru with it..

But here's the thing: he won't lose nearly as much by resisting. He's poor. He's on benefits. He would lose his benefits if his council demanded he get jabbed and he resisted, but the punishment would merely be him getting a job, just like the rest of us. My female friend, on the other hand stands to lose well over $100,000 a year. And my male friend, who hasn't worked or lifted a finger in decades, and is about as lazy as they come, tells me he will get a tent and live in the woods before he gets jabbed. And he's dead serious. Sorry, i don't think so. If push came to shove, he's getting vaccinated. I'd bet my life on it.

If I had a job paying me well over a hundred grand, I would have to think long and hard about not getting vaccinated. I'd like to think I'd resist, but I honestly can't say for sure

[Ernie Nemeth]

If you have something to loose more important than your health or your principles, you have valued wrongly in the first place.

[Mike]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
If you have something to loose more important than your health or your principles, you have valued wrongly in the first place.

Very true. And I hear you loud n clear. Respect that.

However, some people have more to lose than others. Much more. When not only large sums of money are on the table, but mortgages, car payments, kid's expenses, college loans, credit, and so on, it would be real easy to justify taking the vaccine.

My parents got the vaccine. So did my brother and sisters. They're fine. None have died or grown a third arm or anything. I don't want to be in the awkward position of defending it, but the majority of people that take it are quite alright..at least for now. If I had my life's work wrapped up in it and all the things I mentioned earlier, it would be quite easy to justify taking it. What irked me about my male friend in my previous post was his sanctimony when judging my other friend ..who had waaaaay more to lose than him by avoiding the jab. His snobbery wouldn't allow him to put himself in her shoes, even for a moment

[Delight]

Posted by Mike (here)
But here's the thing: he won't lose nearly as much by resisting. He's poor. He's on benefits. He would lose his benefits if his council demanded he get jabbed and he resisted, but the punishment would merely be him getting a job, just like the rest of us. My female friend, on the other hand stands to lose well over $100,000 a year. And my male friend, who hasn't worked or lifted a finger in decades, and is about as lazy as they come, tells me he will get a tent and live in the woods before he gets jabbed. And he's dead serious. Sorry, i don't think so. If push came to shove, he's getting vaccinated. I'd bet my life on it.

If I had a job paying me well over a hundred grand, I would have to think long and hard about not getting vaccinated. I'd like to think I'd resist, but I honestly can't say for sure

Well, then YOU will have the consequences. IF you get the jab and then it kills you or maims you, maybe you will be in denial? People have been coincidentally having negative effects from many various activities... some even with common ordinary items like tylenol or alcohol or whatever? They do not connect the agency.

Every activity on earth has a few people who die but what IF you die from something you absolutely KNEW was harmful to you. When you succomb to pressure and die, is that a bitter pill? If you are at a frat party and drink to death, is that a terrible blow to the being?

I at least want to follow my intuition and be true to my own beliefs.

MY BIG POINT of revelation a few years ago was that I want to be a Sovereign being. What does that MEAN? I am still exploring that concept. Maybe sovereignty is much BIGGER than I even know. It is my purpose in life... know it and be it.

[Mike]

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
But here's the thing: he won't lose nearly as much by resisting. He's poor. He's on benefits. He would lose his benefits if his council demanded he get jabbed and he resisted, but the punishment would merely be him getting a job, just like the rest of us. My female friend, on the other hand stands to lose well over $100,000 a year. And my male friend, who hasn't worked or lifted a finger in decades, and is about as lazy as they come, tells me he will get a tent and live in the woods before he gets jabbed. And he's dead serious. Sorry, i don't think so. If push came to shove, he's getting vaccinated. I'd bet my life on it.

If I had a job paying me well over a hundred grand, I would have to think long and hard about not getting vaccinated. I'd like to think I'd resist, but I honestly can't say for sure

Well, then YOU will have the consequences. IF you get the jab and then it kills you or maims you, maybe you will be in denial? People have been coincidentally having negative effects from many various activities... some even with common ordinary items like tylenol or alcohol or whatever? They do not connect the agency.

Every activity on earth has a few people who die but what IF you die from something you absolutely KNEW was harmful to you. When you succomb to pressure and die, is that a bitter pill? If you are at a frat party and drink to death, is that a terrible blow to the being?

I at least want to follow my intuition and be true to my own beliefs.

MY BIG POINT of revelation a few years ago was that I want to be a Sovereign being. What does that MEAN? I am still exploring that concept. Maybe sovereignty is much BIGGER than I even know. It is my purpose in life... know it and be it.

If it killed me I'd be dead, so no room for denial there If it maimed me I'd surely be aware of and accept that. I'd take full responsibility for my decision. My decision so far has been to not get vaccinated btw.

I predict I will never get it. But often situations change. So there is still a small possibility I might.

Tying all this in with Doug's purpose here...
I try not to judge people's decisions too harshly, because everything is situational. When I see people making what I think are poor decisions, I try to remind myself that there are likely many variables involved in that decision that I may not know about. And were I them, and exposed to similar variables, I might just make that same decision too in a moment of weakness.

I think it's possible - by cultivating one's character, sense of morality and decency, discipline and so forth - to lessen the probability of making those poor decisions over time, even when faced with the greatest of controversies. I think it should be done consciously, with practice. I think it takes practice to become a sovereign being. It's not a decision one makes and then that's it. It's a moment to moment decision, requiring vigilance and deep intent. Your sovereignty will be challenged along the way, and you may falter here n there but as you practice standing tall it will get easier and easier.

Meanwhile we're all fallible human beings on God's green earth. Those blunders and misjudgments are inevitable on our journey "back to God" as Doug puts it. So when I see people making them I'm reminded that I am them and they are me, and we're all in the messy process of evolution in a rather crazy world

[Savannah]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Star Mariner (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
I believe strongly that I have been or will be in a future life a tyrant, murderer, rapist, sadist..you name it.

It doesn't really work like that. For the majority of us these things lie behind, not ahead. It's almost impossible to draw parallels between the physical dimension and the timeless world of spirit, as they're governed by completely different laws. But there is one thing they do share in common, one property which marries them together, and that's forward advancement.

We are All Things, because we are all connected to all other things - like a drop of water in the ocean is the ocean. The ocean is this one giant, heaving mass containing an infinity of drops, but each drop contains its individual properties. That's what makes them (us) unique. The drops don't arbitrarily 'switch places' though, as they're all on their own personal, individual journeys.

You have a good soul Mike, and you've achieved that goodness through many lives of hard work. I can see (and I assume you can see) no reason whatsoever why you ever want to suddenly adhere to the dark energy and plummet to the point where you'd wish, suddenly, to live a life as a psychopath. You are beyond that point in the journey. You have reached a stage in development where dark energies, where and when they try to attach (and they do try all the time), have no power over you.

'Evil' is not a necessary part of the soul's journey. One can stray that far in polarity if one wishes, but one doesn't have to be evil in order to know evil, and oppose it. It certainly isn't a condition for progress: it's an aberration in the system not a feature of the system.

Tyrants and murderers and psychos are essentially made two ways: by severe energetic damage to the soul and psyche of an individual from abuses experienced in this life or previous lives that are now acting out, or it simply happens organically in those naturally attuned and attracted to evil - in other words by choice. Think people who choose to incarnate into a location or situation that will give them that experience.

Regression of development is of course still possible, but that's linked to karma, such as making the same mistakes life after life and slipping further and further behind. Essentially our advancement is driven by choice, where we want to go, what we want to experience, and what we need to learn to achieve more awareness, higher vibration etc. It's always an upward curve. Evolution follows a natural and logical path, in the spiritual as well as the physical. So there's no philanthropist this life, mass murderer the next.

I would say we're all vulnerable to peforming an evil act(s) in any incarnation, if we're not hyper vigilant about our potential to do such things..regardless of how evolved we are or imagine ourselves to be.

Even more important perhaps than one's upward evolution is the situation one finds oneself in. I may be more evolved/spiritually mature than I was in my last incarnation (if we assume evolution is always perfectly linear) but if my current incarnation is significantly more challenging I may be more likely to do something evil. If in my last lifetime I was a rich guy living a soft life in a luxurious bubble, I wouldn't find myself in the position of making heavy, existential decisions; if in this lifetime I was put in prison unfairly I might be required to join a gang, kill or maim for that gang, and so on.

The example I gave above in my previous post is a better one. Those German police officers were regular people. They were regarded as good people by their community. They were family men. Had the war never occured they would have carried on being good people. But under certain circumstances even good people can do horrifying things. I don't necessarily think any kind of spiritual regression or advancement was involved here..I just think the police officers found themselves in an unprecedented situation.

This is illustrated well in Victor Frankl's book about the holocaust, 'Man's Search For Meaning'. It was not uncommon for the captured Jews to steal and backstab their fellow prisoners. Some of that stealing and backstabbing resulted in deaths. Some acted as informers for the Nazi guards. And so on. But it's not because they were unevolved. It's not because they were inherently bad people. It was the extreme situation they found themselves in.

Under the right amount of pressure, anyone can crack. That's the point I was really trying to make. Perhaps inwardly we become better people by some spiritual measure, life after life..but outwardly we're still capable of heinous acts under certain conditions. In that way, the community leader of a previous lifetime can be a murderer in this life; the philanthropist can become the sadist..and so on. It's not that one would consciously choose to regress or become dark/evil after a lifetime of general goodness, it's more like certain unforeseen situations may exceed their threshold for resistance, in which case they may fail to demonstrate that goodness (and actually behave in a contrary manner). And I don't necessarily think that makes them evil. I think it makes them human

Yes, I would agree we are always vulnerable to shift negative. We have free will and can make choices that change our polarity. I don't think one act makes one negative but it does affect the overall charge. One drop of red paint is not going to make the large bottle red but keep it up and its pink and then red. We may need more learning experiences, acts or life time's to bring it back to white. I posted the work of Todd Diveny https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...veny-The-Event His work helped me better understand the electromagnetic human. How our light bodies hold photonic light and how we increase it. Also how it can begin to spin negative. The tread is more about "the Event" (not sure if I buy into it yet) but his work as a whole explains the physics of spirituality.

[Hym]

Transcendent common themes where people get to dive into their relationships with all that is not personal, that they have been trained to make personal....unnecessarily. It is always this way, during these days of massive societal transitions, when the patience of the darkness loses it's self absorption and we get to see what illusions we have been holding onto, unnecessarily.

What peculiar discussions we have here, and I am glad, even privileged to make a few comments about them. Ya'll are very advanced people, walking thru time....awakening, and that may be the value of it all. I can't get over the fact that as separate bodies with the negative power of disconnection from each other, maybe that is the only thing any visitor can note with certainty. I once had a girlfriend like that and all I had to do was put a little time in between the sweetness....I get it, even as exhaustion is empowering, healthy. Don't agree with it, but I like where you're going with this.

I've always seen things quite different than the narratives, though I do understand the deeper training experiences that people have in life, the things that have to beat them over the head in order for them to get it. That seems like a lazy way to live.

It's at least a bit deeper here on Avalon, where people have the insight, the strength and the prompting by others to not be limited to change or getting on with life, instead of going so damn slow. And no, you don't have to experience it first person, all of this good and bad drama.

Well, that seems like a lot of nothing from me, as I try to explain how limited humans think they are and how disconnected from time distant thought and projections they are, when they may suddenly approach the truth of their infinite nature and their unlimited potential, the things that make the now and the beyond in this singular life in a golden thread of many lives....... click, together. A much longer life than just being in these little bodies.

For all facing the question of anything doing with the jab, here's a little perspective on the pharmaceutical industry...IT IS THE PUREST FORM OF EVIL.

I see why and when people wait,.......wait to grow up, to stand up, to trust in LIVING ITSELF to make decisions that are so obviously the correct ones, but humanity has been trained to wait until that evil affects them. No, you don't need to know what evil feels like, what it feels like enough to empathize with it, with them. You're not that shallow. Judgmental for no reason, maybe. In case you need the reminder, it's in the jab.

Don't be surprised if you don't have anything but a slight allergic reaction to an adjuvant/and additive if you get the lot of shots that was planned to be cvd-light. Much more deadly though, and a lot to swing even the dumbest amongst us over to viscerally, from the gut, is to not know THE DEADLY THREAT that subservience to any state or corporate imposition is, and to forget to compare what that unknown soup of poisons can do to you. The injury, the death, the slow death is only confirmation that you're not really living..... Even then, all is not lost.

I can say this as I've chosen my liberty over the cash for most of my life. I say that as I've been here.... while I'm here. That's the least I can do to honor the ride.

The last work that I chose to keep according to real health rules, OSHA, cost me the biggest step in a lucrative career, and that choice didn't seem much different than any others I've had. I choose another path. I've not ever been at a loss for answers or alternatives to someone else's illusionary imposition of injustice. I will tell others about it all, but by that time I'm gone.

Someone asked me if I'd had the shot.
I told them I don't do drugs, and especially not from the most untrustworthy dealers ever.
I certainly wouldn't trust drugs from the biggest drug dealers ever to make drugs on the planet, dealers who are paid tens of billions for creating and distributing drugs that they knew caused deaths and injuries, and never do jail time for any of it.

In case some don't know or have forgotten, one of the main drug dealers, Pfizer, paid $2.3 BILLION for it's misrepresentation of the dangers they knew of in their products......and not one of the owners, not one of the managers, not one of the distributors ever did a day in jail for those crimes against humanity. That's the highest level of corruption possible, because it takes layers of collusion to make the crimes possible.

I'm reminding you, you don't know killers....at all, and, in case you don't have 1,000's of documented copies like many of us researchers have, you should not limit your imagination in understanding the limitless steps they go to, to commit the crimes they have always committed, from the beginnings of their companies.

Why would anyone ever trust a super dealer with a record like that?
And for all of our friends, acquaintances, and others who have submitted themselves to the tyranny, REMEMBER who you're dealing with. Some of the shots have this in them, some of them have that in them, some of them have different this's and thats in them, some have nothing in them.

A recently published study by the British Medical Journal found out that only 53% of the cv shots had mRNA in them, and no...there is not a fine imposed by any government for that lack of quality control. No quality control for poisons created to injure and sometimes kill? Nothing new to me.

I met them when I was very young. Why so many ever trusted vaccines, nor ever extrapolated the injuries and deaths to all of the corruption it took to keep those very deep lies alive for all of this time, only points out that they were okay with the lives they've lived. On one level, the pains it took to die with those poisons, the loves lost, the time....the only thing we have that's immutable in this context, it's the saddest thing being around.

And, it is not new to me...the lost memories of humanity about their ignorance of the deep tragedies they have experienced. Maybe rivers are the tears of the angels you once were, there to rekindle those most precious of memories, not just as sustenance, but for holding the conjunction of a higher awareness when ingested. Of the many water planets in this galaxy alone, memory is their common gift to the sentience that sustains survival....on all levels.


The manipulation to create a response is always more important than anything they can put in the shot. And calling it whatever they call it, is usually not an accurate way of knowing what we're dealing with. Like calling it an experimental gene therapy. Really? Therapy, for their profits?

Again, those manipulative use of words. If they had said "physical" distancing was necessary, instead of saying social distancing, would that have prompted us all to naturally remember our important social connections?

And a clot shot is by no means experimental. They know exactly what it is going to do to every segment of each population, as it is placed in every single lot, every batch. Every grouping of poisons is created to exact whatever kind of outcome that will serve their purposes to control life, to maim, to injure, to paralyze, to kill. Never to heal, NEVER.

It is against their corporate charters to heal anyone, at any time. It is not their business model. The history of vaccines stands in testament to the proof that they were invented for profit, for control, for sterilization, for genocide and not for prevention of, or removal of, disease.

If that was the case, they wouldn't be influencing all of those under their control, the government officials, the politicians, the media presstitutes (Gerald Celente definition-the most accurate), the corporate heads, the educational directors to force anything on anyone. Do not forget that they always, accurately pre-determine the affects of the poisons they feed the public. They are all actuaries, statisticians of death, whose work is not limited to insurance companies.

[Vangelo]

Mike and Pam, you are so right. The key is to recognize that we have the capacity to be the things we are repulsed by. We will be doomed to repeat the horrible history of Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, etc... if we are unable to accept the fact that, under the right circumstances, good people can and will do bad things.

The connection to 'shadow' as defined by Jung is spot on. It is true that we all have shadows and they live deep in our unconscious minds. We are repulsed by them and we unknowingly deny their existence even though they form the basis of our identity. We are very capable of exhibiting our shadows but instead we unconsciously stifle them and avoid things that remind us of them (i.e. this is why we get triggered). However, shadows are not necessarily dark, evil or bad. To over simplify this concept please consider the differences between a benevolent King and a tyrannical King. The shadows of a benevolent King are easily visible in the tyrannical King. By that I mean, the benevolent King is repulsed by, and would never do the things a tyrannical King does. He is certainly capable of being a tyrant, and at times wants to be, but he does not do it. The same is true for the tyrannical King. Being benevolent is repulsive to the tyrannical King. His shadows are actually consider good and positive in our culture. Hence, shadows are not necessarily dark, evil or bad. They are simply the things we deny in ourselves and therefore help to form parts of our identity.