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Thread: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    Hi all,
    It's not like we need another Covid thread but this topic is important and narrow enough to focus on. Plus we should all know how are they currently testing stains of the virus. Also how are they currently telling people they have Covid or maybe it's just a flu? The PCR test is not able to distinguish between the common flu and this was known months ago. I also heard that there will be a replacement test for the faulty PCR test coming out this December. There is so much bad information it would be great to hear some clarification on this subject. Thanks....

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    PCR test: designed to find a snippet of code, re. mRNA, perhaps a few hundred strings long amongst a sea of other snippets of life's code. The theoreticians have decided upon which snippet to use by computer modelling, not by empirical research. This is because to actually find the virus and isolate it is no small task - AND HAS NOT BEEN DONE WITH COVID. Instead, theoretical models and simulations approximate the complex interactions, and guess at which part of the millions of lines of code is unique to the virus.

    With this unique snippet of code in hand, and engineering a 'live' copy of the desired control copy is a mastered technology, the process becomes much simpler - but far less accurate. Now all that needs to be done is melt the sample down, that is remove the cell membrane and cell detritus so that all that remains is the mitochondrial DNA. This soup of snippets of code are then sorted through by amplification until a match is found to the control, or not. The 'or not' part is determined by how many 'amplifications' the soup of DNA and RNA snippets are subject to. Enough amplifications will always result in a match...read that agian please, enough amplifications always leads to a match.

    If this isn't clear enough...imagine trying to isolate this virus. First you must start with a sample of someone suspected of being infected. Then this sample must be examined to determine which portion is the bug and which are not. Now the bug must be removed from the rest of the sample and purified. So far, so good. But how do you know you have actually isolated the virus and not something else? The sample must go through a battery of tests to determine with a great deal of confidence that it is indeed the isolated bug. And all of that has to be repeated with many other samples from many other patients. And all of that has to be independently peer reviewed. The final but absolutely crucial test is the double blind human trials. You must infect the subjects and follow the course of infection, without knowing which subjects have gotten the bug and which the placebo. And you must be able to judge which have gotten the bug and which did not. This must be a very large trial in order to be accurate and so that statistical analysis can make useful sense of the data.

    None of the above has been done with covid.

    Therefore, one must question why the shoddy science and misleading information. Who does it serve and who stands to make a fortune on this false narrative?
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    this isnt a pcr report, but if i may.
    I know somebody who came down with covid like a bunch of us after visiting a festival recently and she did 2 lateral flow tests which both were negative.
    so, the lateral flow test produces false negatives. not sure at what rate.

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    Quote Posted by meat suit (here)
    this isnt a pcr report, but if i may.
    I know somebody who came down with covid like a bunch of us after visiting a festival recently and she did 2 lateral flow tests which both were negative.
    so, the lateral flow test produces false negatives. not sure at what rate.
    But how can one by sure anyway if she or the other festival goers had covid and not some other co(rona)mmon cold or (in)flu(enza) since symptoms are alike anyway? I believe we don't know anything anymore, it is all wild guesses.

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    Hi all,
    It's not like we need another Covid thread but this topic is important and narrow enough to focus on. Plus we should all know how are they currently testing stains of the virus. Also how are they currently telling people they have Covid or maybe it's just a flu? The PCR test is not able to distinguish between the common flu and this was known months ago. I also heard that there will be a replacement test for the faulty PCR test coming out this December. There is so much bad information it would be great to hear some clarification on this subject. Thanks....
    This is how it works according to the CDC.

    Although some companies are allegedly working on a test that would differentiate between generic SARS-CoV2 and the Delta variant,
    currently no tests exists.

    So how do they know that 98% of the cases in the U.S. now are the Delta variant?
    Simple. They send random test samples to special labs where they do gene sequencing on them.
    After playing around with them for a while they determine if it's the Delta or not.

    And I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you if you're interested.

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    The general population is bluffed by the technocrats because they know very little about microbiology and have to take their word for it. Of course this also involves the intimidation of the medical profession and suppressing or killing of the lesser known professionals. The speed of implementing measures is what I think that gives them away. Since all scenarios were prepared long time ago, rolling them out is speedy. I remember last November when Britain had the new strain (I think the so called Alpha variant), within days, maybe a week, Hong Kong immigration said they caught two returning 16 year old oversea students with the new strain. Then quite immediately what had been peaceful throughout the summer turned to high alert and the number of quarantine days on entry changed to 21. This was brutal. I did not believe they had the ability to suddenly detecting a new variant only discovered days ago in Britain, but the people accepted it.

    Warp speed is needed because they need to roll out their years of hard planning before people have time to think.
    Last edited by syrwong; 4th September 2021 at 23:39.

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    You have to wonder how people swallow this, variants of a virus they refuse to isolate and make available, the complete disappearance of Flu for over a year, how does that even happen?
    There is so much VooDoo and confidence trickster talk around SARS-CoV2: it really is no wonder people are bamboozled and confused.

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    Quote Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)
    Quote Posted by meat suit (here)
    this isnt a pcr report, but if i may.
    I know somebody who came down with covid like a bunch of us after visiting a festival recently and she did 2 lateral flow tests which both were negative.
    so, the lateral flow test produces false negatives. not sure at what rate.
    But how can one by sure anyway if she or the other festival goers had covid and not some other co(rona)mmon cold or (in)flu(enza) since symptoms are alike anyway? I believe we don't know anything anymore, it is all wild guesses.
    well, its anybodies guess, but there are the common symptoms of fever, fatigue and specifically loss of smell and taste.
    like David Martin says from memory: the tests cant detect a virus that doesnt exist. the bio weapon is the spike protein.

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    CDC and FDA Admit Their Policies are Based on a “Contrived” Model, not a Virus

    September 3, 2021 Jon Rappoport 4


    Unsplash
    The CDC may withdraw its request to the FDA for the Emergency Use Authorization of PCR tests to be replaced by a PCR test with a better marker. The CDC/FDA admitted there was a problem with the PCR test, which has been used to detect COVID, starting in February of 2020—right up to the present. The CDC also referenced documents that confirmed it did not have a specimen of the SARS-CoV-2 virus when it concocted the PCR test and that it “contrived” samples of the virus. Therefore, it has no proof that a SARS-CoV-2 virus exists! The FDA document said that it granted emergency approval to 59 different PCR tests since the beginning of the pandemic and it was not feasible to compare them to a reliable standard. -GEG
    The CDC has issued a document that bulges with devastating admissions.

    The release is titled, “07/21/2021: Lab Alert: Changes to CDC RT-PCR for SARS-CoV-2 Testing.” It begins explosively:
    “After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only. CDC is providing this advance notice for clinical laboratories to have adequate time to select and implement one of the many FDA-authorized alternatives.”
    Many people believe this means the CDC is giving up on the PCR test as a means of “detecting the virus.” The CDC isn’t saying that at all.

    They’re saying the PCR technology will continue to be used, but they’re replacing what the test is looking FOR with a better “reference sample.” A better marker. A better target. A better piece of RNA supposedly derived from SARS-CoV-2.

    CDC/FDA are confessing there has been a PROBLEM with the PCR test which has been used to detect the virus, starting in February of 2020—right up to this minute.

    In other words, the millions and millions of “COVID cases” based on the PCR test in use are all suspect. Actually, that statement is too generous. Every test result of every PCR test should be thrown out.

    To confirm this, the CDC document links to an FDA release titled, “SARS-CoV-2 Reference Panel Comparative Data.” Here is a killer quote:
    “During the early months of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, clinical specimens [of the virus] were not readily available to developers of IVDs [in vitro diagnostics] to detect SARS-CoV-2. Therefore, the FDA authorized IVDs based on available data from contrived samples generated from a range of SARS-CoV-2 material sources (for example, gene specific RNA, synthetic RNA, or whole genome viral RNA) for analytical and clinical performance evaluation. While validation using these contrived specimens provided a measure of confidence in test performance at the beginning of the pandemic, it is not feasible to precisely compare the performance of various tests that used contrived specimens because each test validated performance using samples derived from different gene specific, synthetic, or genomic nucleic acid sources.”
    Translation: We, at the CDC, did not have a specimen of the SARS-CoV-2 virus when we concocted the PCR test for SARS-CoV-2. Yes, it’s unbelievable, right? And that’s the test we’ve been using all along. So we CONTRIVED samples of the virus. We fabricated. We lied. We made up [invented] synthetic gene sequences and we SAID these sequences HAD TO BE close to the sequence of SARS-CoV-2, without having the faintest idea of what we were doing, because, again, we didn’t have an actual specimen of the virus. We had no proof THERE WAS something called SARS-CoV-2.

    This amazing FDA document goes to say the Agency has granted emergency approval to 59 different PCR tests since the beginning of the (fake) pandemic. 59. And,
    “…it is not feasible to precisely compare the performance of various tests that used contrived specimens because each test validated performance using samples derived from different gene specific, synthetic, or genomic nucleic acid sources.”
    Translation: Each of the 59 different PCR tests for SARS-CoV-2 told different lies and concocted different fabrications about the genetic makeup of the virus—the virus we didn’t have. Obviously, then, these tests would give unreliable results. THE PCR TESTS USED CONTRIVED SPECIMENS OF THE VIRUS WE DIDN’T HAVE.

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    As I posted in another thread just now

    Quote But here's a question: how was it tested/confirmed that you all specifically had the Delta variant? Or were you all simply told?
    I had an antibody blood test taken 3 weeks after, when doctor would agree to see me.

    It was not the latest 'Aberdeen' test introduced this summer which is supposedly more detailed and accurate about which COVID variant

    https://www.abdn.ac.uk/news/15066/

    Quote Antibody tests that can detect whether people have been exposed to new variants of Covid-19 have been developed by the University of Aberdeen, in collaboration with biotechnology group Vertebrate Antibodies Ltd and NHS Grampian.

    The new tests can detect antibody responses to infection by SARS-CoV-2 virus with more than 98% accuracy and 100% specificity. This is in contrast to currently available tests that are around 60-93% accurate and cannot differentiate unique variants
    , and the results came back:

    Quote Results suggest recent or prior infection with SARS-CoV-2. Correlation
    with epidemiologic risk factors and other clinical and laboratory
    findings is recommended.
    Serologic results should not be used as the
    sole basis to diagnose or exclude recent SARS-CoV-2 infection. False
    positive results infrequently occur due to prior infection with other
    human Coronaviruses.
    This assay was performed using the DiaSorin Liaison(R)
    SARS-CoV-2 S1/S2 IgG assay.
    This assay detects antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 spike protein
    including the receptor binding domain (RBD).
    So that test could not confirm strain - I really wanted the more recent, accurate testing but could not get it at my provider.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    In other words, the millions and millions of “COVID cases” based on the PCR test in use are all suspect. Actually, that statement is too generous. Every test result of every PCR test should be thrown out.

    To confirm this, the CDC document links to an FDA release titled, “SARS-CoV-2 Reference Panel Comparative Data.” Here is a killer quote:
    “During the early months of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, clinical specimens [of the virus] were not readily available to developers of IVDs [in vitro diagnostics] to detect SARS-CoV-2. Therefore, the FDA authorized IVDs based on available data from contrived samples generated from a range of SARS-CoV-2 material sources (for example, gene specific RNA, synthetic RNA, or whole genome viral RNA) for analytical and clinical performance evaluation. While validation using these contrived specimens provided a measure of confidence in test performance at the beginning of the pandemic, it is not feasible to precisely compare the performance of various tests that used contrived specimens because each test validated performance using samples derived from different gene specific, synthetic, or genomic nucleic acid sources.”
    Translation: We, at the CDC, did not have a specimen of the SARS-CoV-2 virus when we concocted the PCR test for SARS-CoV-2. Yes, it’s unbelievable, right? And that’s the test we’ve been using all along. So we CONTRIVED samples of the virus. We fabricated. We lied. We made up [invented] synthetic gene sequences and we SAID these sequences HAD TO BE close to the sequence of SARS-CoV-2, without having the faintest idea of what we were doing, because, again, we didn’t have an actual specimen of the virus. We had no proof THERE WAS something called SARS-CoV-2.

    This amazing FDA document goes to say the Agency has granted emergency approval to 59 different PCR tests since the beginning of the (fake) pandemic. 59. And,
    “…it is not feasible to precisely compare the performance of various tests that used contrived specimens because each test validated performance using samples derived from different gene specific, synthetic, or genomic nucleic acid sources.”
    Translation: Each of the 59 different PCR tests for SARS-CoV-2 told different lies and concocted different fabrications about the genetic makeup of the virus—the virus we didn’t have. Obviously, then, these tests would give unreliable results. THE PCR TESTS USED CONTRIVED SPECIMENS OF THE VIRUS WE DIDN’T HAVE.
    The SARS-CoV-2 "virus" has never been isolated. Therefore it is impossible to prove that it causes any illness. It is also impossible to make any "vaccine" against it. The whole thing is a sham and a lie

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    Never before have they had to dig into your brain pan to get a sample. Why? If you have enough bug to make you sick it will be everywhere and a simple mouth swab would be sufficient. And breathing in a molecule of virus is not indicative of health status anyway.
    It's almost as if they know that the body's best and front line defence is in the nasal cavity and that there is a high likelihood there are all sorts of virus debris in that location - debris that has already been dealt with and neutralized...
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: The PCR test & how are they testing strains?

    What I find extremely suspect is the fact that the CDC says it can not show ANYONE the results of the genomic testing they claim to do in order to distinguish variants.

    They can not share doctors, patients, other government groups, nobody.

    Also if you remember back in March 2020 when the talk of vaccines began many scientists stated that hope for vaccines were great because coronavirus are known to NOT mutate like other viruses...

    Yet here we are with the predicted disease enhancing effects of coronavirus vaccines showing up only to be explained away as caused by endless variants.

    Very strange.


    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...and-prevention


    By — Rachana Pradhan, Kaiser Health News
    Labs can’t tell you if you have a COVID variant, a problem for tracking and prevention
    Health Feb 26, 2021 11:55 AM EDT
    COVID-19 infections from variant strains are quickly spreading across the U.S., but there’s one big problem: Lab officials say they can’t tell patients or their doctors whether someone has been infected by a variant.

    Federal rules around who can be told about the variant cases are so confusing that public health officials may merely know the county where a case has emerged but can’t do the kind of investigation and deliver the notifications needed to slow the spread, according to Janet Hamilton, executive director of the Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists.

    “It could be associated with a person in a high-risk congregate setting or it might not be, but without patient information, we don’t know what we don’t know,” Hamilton said. The group has asked federal officials to waive the rules. “Time is ticking.”

    The problem is that the tests in question for detecting variants have not been approved as a diagnostic tool either by the Food and Drug Administration or under federal rules governing university labs ― meaning that the testing being used right now for genomic sequencing is being done as high-level lab research with no communication back to patients and their doctors.

    Amid limited testing to identify different strains, more than 1,900 cases of three key variants have been detected in 46 states, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That’s worrisome because of early reports that some may spread faster, prove deadlier or potentially thwart existing treatments and vaccines.

    Officials representing public health labs and epidemiologists have warned the federal government that limiting information about the variants ― in accordance with arcane regulations governing clinical labs ― could hamper efforts to investigate pressing questions about the variants.

    The Association of Public Health Laboratories and the Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists earlier this month jointly pressed federal officials to “urgently” relax certain rules that apply to clinical labs.

    Washington state officials detected the first case of the variant discovered in South Africa this week, but the infected person didn’t provide a good phone number and could not be contacted about the positive result. Even if health officials do track down the patient, “legally we can’t” tell him or her about the variant because the test is not yet federally approved, Teresa McCallion, a spokesperson for the state department of health, said in an email.

    “However, we are actively looking into what we can do,” she said.

    Lab testing experts describe the situation as a Catch-22: Scientists need enough case data to make sure their genome-sequencing tests, which are used to detect variants, are accurate. But while they wait for results to come in and undergo thorough reviews, variant cases are surging. The lag reminds some of the situation a year ago. Amid regulatory missteps, approval for a COVID-19 diagnostic test was delayed while the virus spread undetected.

    The limitations also put lab professionals and epidemiologists in a bind as public health officials attempt to trace contacts of those infected with more contagious strains, said Scott Becker, CEO of the Association of Public Health Laboratories. “You want to be able to tell [patients] a variant was detected,” he said.

    Complying with the lab rules “is not feasible in the timeline that a rapidly evolving virus and responsive public health system requires,” the organizations wrote.

    Hamilton also said telling patients they have a novel strain could be another tool to encourage cooperation ― which is waning ― with efforts to trace and sample their contacts. She said notifications might also further encourage patients to take the advice to remain isolated seriously.

    “Can our investigations be better if we can disclose that information to the patient?” she said. “I think the answer is yes.”

    Public health experts have predicted that the B117 variant, first found in the United Kingdom, could be the predominant variant strain of the coronavirus in the U.S. by March.

    As of Tuesday, the CDC had identified nearly 1,900 cases of the B117 variant in 45 states; 46 cases of B1351, which was first identified in South Africa, in 14 states; and five cases of the P.1 variant initially detected in Brazil in four states, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC director, told reporters Wednesday.

    A Feb. 12 memo from North Carolina public health officials to clinicians stated that because genome sequencing at the CDC is done for surveillance purposes and is not an approved test under the Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments program ― which is overseen by the U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services ― “results from sequencing will not be communicated back to the provider.”

    Earlier this week, the topic came up in Illinois as well. Notifying patients that they are positive for a COVID variant is “not allowed currently” because the test is not CLIA-approved, said Judy Kauerauf, section chief of the Illinois Department of Public Health communicable disease program, according to a record obtained by the Documenting COVID-19 project of Columbia University’s Brown Institute for Media Innovation.

    The CDC has scaled up its genomic sequencing in recent weeks, with Walensky saying the agency was conducting it on only 400 samples weekly when she began as director compared with more than 9,000 samples the week of Feb. 20.

    The Biden administration has committed nearly $200 million to expand the federal government’s genomic sequencing capacity in hopes it will be able to test 25,000 samples per week.

    “We’ll identify COVID variants sooner and better target our efforts to stop the spread. We’re quickly infusing targeted resources here because the time is critical when it comes to these fast-moving variants,” Carole Johnson, testing coordinator for President Joe Biden’s COVID-19 response team, said on a call with reporters this month.

    Hospitals get high-level information about whether a sample submitted for sequencing tested positive for a variant, said Dr. Nick Gilpin, director of infection prevention at Beaumont Health in Michigan, where 210 cases of the B117 variant have been detected. Yet patients and their doctors will remain in the dark about who exactly was infected.

    “It’s relevant from a systems-based perspective,” Gilpin said. “If we have a bunch of B117 in my backyard, that’s going to make me think a little differently about how we do business.”

    It’s the same in Washington state, McCallion said. Health officials may share general numbers, such as 14 out of 16 outbreak specimens at a facility were identified as B117 ― but not who those 14 patients were.

    There are arguments for and against notifying patients. On one hand, being infected with a variant won’t affect patient care, public health officials and clinicians say. And individuals who test positive would still be advised to take the same precautions of isolation, mask-wearing and hand-washing regardless of which strain they carried.

    “There wouldn’t be any difference in medical treatment whether they have the variant,” said Mark Pandori, director of the Nevada State Public Health Laboratory. However, he added that “in a public health emergency it’s really important for doctors to know this information.”

    Pandori estimated there may be only 10 or 20 labs in the U.S. capable of validating their laboratory-based variant tests. One of them doing so is the lab at the University of Washington in Seattle.

    Dr. Alex Greninger, assistant director of the clinical virology laboratories there, who co-created one of the first tests to detect SARS-CoV-2, said his lab began work to validate the sequencing tests last fall.

    Within the next few weeks, he said, he anticipates having a federally authorized test for whole-genome sequencing of COVID. “So all the issues you note on notifying patients and using [the] results will not be a problem,” he said in an email.

    Companies including San Diego-based Illumina have approved COVID-testing machines that can also detect a variant. However, since the add-on sequencing capability wasn’t specifically approved by the FDA, the results can be shared with public health officials ― but not patients and their doctors, said Dr. Phil Febbo, Illumina’s chief medical officer.

    He said they haven’t asked the FDA for further approval but could if variants start to pose greater concern, like escaping vaccine protection.

    “I think right now there’s no need for individuals to know their strains,” he said.

  26. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Blastolabs For This Post:

    Brigantia (6th September 2021), Ernie Nemeth (6th September 2021), mojo (6th September 2021), mountain_jim (6th September 2021)

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