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Thread: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

  1. Link to Post #1
    United States Avalon Member pabranno's Avatar
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    Default What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    When I hear news these days (!!!!) I notice that I frantically go to Project Avalon. Sometimes I even speak out loud to myself “let me go to Avalon to see what’s REALLY going on”. This is where the wheat is separated from the chaff. I have unwavering faith in the incredible community here. Your insight, diligence and goodness.
    I am so dependent on Avalon for insight.
    These days….especially these days….the world needs Avalon.
    Our community. Each of us doing what we do here. Where else do we go for such a breadth and depth of insight, incisive questioning, encouragement and anchoring? Where such a unique gathering of good, seeking souls?

    What if Avalon had to shut down?
    Where would I go, who to turn to?
    I know the Avalon team has worked very hard to maintain cyber security.
    Those things are over my head and out of my control

    What I CAN do is send a little money every month to support our community. I have no idea how much this costs, or who is footing the bill when there’s no funds. I do have my suspicions: there are probably several key members who quietly sacrifice money when there is a deficit…..times when it really hurts to give but someone has to step up. To those Avalon heroes, my gratitude and I say Bravo!

    I love this community. I need this community. The world needs this community.

    I unabashedly reach out and remind us all to give just a little here and there.
    It feels so good in my heart to give back, to help us. To keep us going.
    I need you all. I thank you all. I truly do.

    Sincerely,
    Pamela

    PS please feel free to expand on the Title concept past and beyond the money aspect I would love to explore the concept outside of finances. Eager for your thoughts!
    Last edited by pabranno; 18th September 2021 at 16:08.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Pamela, that’s a very lovely, heartfelt post.

    Yes, Avalon is a small treasure, like a beautiful little seashell on a mile-long beach. There may be storms and big waves sometimes, and quite a few other shells scattered around, but our little seashell is always there, high and safe on the sand.

    I know we reach a lot of people, and the right people. We may sometimes never know who they are. But the mods hear regularly from folk who tell us that they’ve been following everything here for years and years.
    (An aside: I think some people are discouraged by the apparently very personal membership application, which it may be prudent for us to try to trim down if we can. We barely need any of the information we ask for, and it’s more of a throwback to something like 2008 when the software was written. Since then, people are MUCH more wary about sharing personal info on the net, for all the reasons we can understand.)
    I sincerely believe Avalon is safe, as safe as anything can be online these days. We have two independent levels of backup, and an alternative way set up to get here if the domain name is lost or removed.

    And if yours truly ever disappears in the mountains (or decides to retire to Alpha Centauri (see this thread!), the mods have all the details to maintain the registration, the hosting, the donations, and everything else. The decade-old software is a little old and creaky, but Tommy is some kind of genius (he really is) and has managed to work his magic every time to fix something perfectly that seems plain broken to everyone else.

    But yes, as Janice Joplin sang, You don't know what you've got till it's gone. It's always healthy in every way, in mind body and spirit, for us to be fully aware of the blessings (and valued, beloved people) around us, and never ever get too complacent.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th September 2021 at 17:07.

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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by pabranno (here)
    I have no idea how much this costs,
    Huggins, Pamela.

    Here’s the most recent post where Bill breaks it all down, including the costs to maintain Project Avalon forum.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ....
    Avalon's costs have soared recently, with the second backup we now have (outside the US, a needed safety net in case any plugs were suddenly pulled), and also a new host for the library which has been growing and growing and now needs twice the space and much more bandwidth.

    The annual costs were $4200/year, but now stand at $4800. That takes up a full third of my tiny tiny income.

    So for those of you who can afford it (and I do know some just can't!), please do remember to support us every now and then if you can. Just small amounts here and there do very gradually add up to make all the difference in the world.

    An earlier post from Bill:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ....
    Folks, Hi:

    This post is primarily for our newer members of the community, who may not know this thread exists.

    We're delighted you're here, and I hope you feel that way too. As you've seen, there's no advertising here of any kind, the entire thing is subscription-free, and you now have access to an immense library of searchable information, and the opportunity to participate and add to that as much as you wish.

    In various ways, it all costs quite a lot to maintain.

    We do need your voluntary financial support. A few of you have already made a donation on joining, and we very much appreciate that. (And there are other longstanding members reading this who regularly donate: we SO much appreciate that. )

    Even small amounts help. If every active member donated just $1 a month, the effect would be significant. $5 a month, and it's transformational.

    Please think about it. My own commitment is to continue to make the Forum freely available to everyone, including our MANY regular guests and visitors.

    Thanks for all your contributions, in every way. Those who've already made donations, thank you again, and you know who you are. It all counts.

    PayPal address: donation@projectavalon.net. To set up a recurring donation, large or small, please use the orange HOW TO DONATE button at the top right of this page.

    Thank you.

    I'll (RunningDeer) add one more link - Thank you for your donation.
    The donation link is also found at the top, right of every page. Thanks, Everyone.

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  7. Link to Post #4
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by pabranno (here)
    I have no idea how much this costs
    Actually, I've never broken it all down for the members in detail. Here are all the costs to the nearest dollar:
    • Avalon hosting + backup: $293/month.
    • Avalon Library hosting + backup: $61/month.
    • Independent secondary backup for both: $43/month.
    • Annual domain name registration (x2): $22/year.
    That totals $4,786/year.

    In addition to that, because Tommy (our senior admin) is a busy professional software specialist, I pay him something fair and appropriate each time (twice so far) he does something way beyond the call of voluntary duty to fix something which is challenging and time-consuming. Last year, that was the Avalon security warning issue, which was difficult and serious, and more recently the very stubborn page loading issue. Each of those took him quite a lot of focused work.

    Tommy is highly skilled, and we only send up a red flare for him to fix things which have defeated all other mortals on the team. But taking that into account, the costs top $5,000/year.

    We'll never accept advertising (or "sponsorship") of any kind. I personally detest that kind of commercial sell-your-soul cheapening, and always have. I've never monetized any of my videos, either, for the same reason.

    I live on a tiny UK pension (about $450/month) that reliably makes its way to Ecuador, and so that and PayPal donations are my only income of any kind. I usually get by just fine, and Mara (my dog) and I are well-fed and in good shape. My 100-year old farmhouse is all paid for, and so is my very ancient and quirky (but strong!) 35-year old 4x4.

    I truly lack nothing, and wake up every day profoundly grateful for abundance that shows up in every form, in every kind of unexpected way. Many Avalon members make $$ contributions (you know who you are! ) and I'm most profoundly grateful to every one of you, too.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th September 2021 at 19:30.

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    Avalon Member jaybee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    I'm going to my paypal account right now to send 10 US dollars - that's only £7.28 in British Pounds ..... .....

    Bless you Bill and everyone who shares thoughts, support and information...

    Avalon Forum is an oasis in the desert - a treasure - a gem - unique - we are so fortunate to have it...


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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Pamela, that’s a very lovely, heartfelt post.

    Yes, Avalon is a small treasure, like a beautiful little seashell on a mile-long beach. There may be storms and big waves sometimes, and quite a few other shells scattered around, but our little seashell is always there, high and safe on the sand.

    I know we reach a lot of people, and the right people. We may sometimes never know who they are. But the mods hear regularly from folk who tell us that they’ve been following everything here for years and years.
    (An aside: I think some people are discouraged by the apparently very personal membership application, which it may be prudent for us to try to trim down if we can. We barely need any of the information we ask for, and it’s more of a throwback to something like 2008 when the software was written. Since then, people are MUCH more wary about sharing personal info on the net, for all the reasons we can understand.)
    I sincerely believe Avalon is safe, as safe as anything can be online these days. We have two independent levels of backup, and an alternative way set up to get here if the domain name is lost or removed.

    And if yours truly ever disappears in the mountains (or decides to retire to Alpha Centauri (see this thread!), the mods have all the details to maintain the registration, the hosting, the donations, and everything else. The decade-old software is a little old and creaky, but Tommy is some kind of genius (he really is) and has managed to work his magic every time to fix something perfectly that seems plain broken to everyone else.

    But yes, as Janice Joplin sang, You don't know what you've got till it's gone. It's always healthy in every way, in mind body and spirit, for us to be fully aware of the blessings (and valued, beloved people) around us, and never ever get too complacent.

    Well said, Bill

    The pedant in me has to rain on your parade and say that it was Joni Mitchell (in her song, Big Yellow Taxi) that sang about not knowing what one has got until it has gone.

    Sorry....
    From Bill... OMG, thank you!

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th September 2021 at 20:02.

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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    To anyone on here who may use 'Brave browser', where you receive BAT crypto currency tokens as payment for viewing adverts whilst browsing
    ...those tokens can be donated (tipped) to this website to help a little bit.
    Any little bit helps in supporting a website we love.

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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    $450 a month Bill? Wowsers, but you are fortunate having your own dwelling paid for, I try to send through a bit when I am 'flush' as we used to say!
    I have come to appreciate Avalon more and more as the years pass, it truly is a unique community.

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    Question Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by pabranno (here)
    I have no idea how much this costs
    Actually, I've never broken it all down for the members in detail. Here are all the costs to the nearest dollar:
    • Avalon hosting + backup: $293/month.
    • Avalon Library hosting + backup: $61/month.
    • Independent secondary backup for both: $43/month.
    • Annual domain name registration (x2): $22/year.
    That totals $4,786/year.
    I must be missing something:
    For VPS server hosting (here in Germany) I would pay for the largest possible package at my web host $47 a month.
    This would give me a 16 vCore, 64 GB RAM, 2000 GB SSD (RAID10) and 80 TB Traffic virtual private server which would be completely under my own control.

    vBulletin 5 Connect (Includes free forum support for life of vBulletin 5 Connect) would be one time cost of $249.00

    Of course, the domain cost wouldn't differ.
    "The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but to reveal to him his own."
    -- Benjamin Disraeli

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  19. Link to Post #10
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by Michi (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by pabranno (here)
    I have no idea how much this costs
    Actually, I've never broken it all down for the members in detail. Here are all the costs to the nearest dollar:
    • Avalon hosting + backup: $293/month.
    • Avalon Library hosting + backup: $61/month.
    • Independent secondary backup for both: $43/month.
    • Annual domain name registration (x2): $22/year.
    That totals $4,786/year.
    I must be missing something:
    For VPS server hosting (here in Germany) I would pay for the largest possible package at my web host $47 a month.
    This would give me a 16 vCore, 64 GB RAM, 2000 GB SSD (RAID10) and 80 TB Traffic virtual private server which would be completely under my own control.

    vBulletin 5 Connect (Includes free forum support for life of vBulletin 5 Connect) would be one time cost of $249.00

    Of course, the domain cost wouldn't differ.
    Thanks! I'd be pretty sure there's an excellent technical reason why Tommy specifically chose the host we currently have. But I'll draw his attention to this post.

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    Scotland Avalon Member ByTheNorthernSea's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by Michi (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by pabranno (here)
    I have no idea how much this costs
    Actually, I've never broken it all down for the members in detail. Here are all the costs to the nearest dollar:
    • Avalon hosting + backup: $293/month.
    • Avalon Library hosting + backup: $61/month.
    • Independent secondary backup for both: $43/month.
    • Annual domain name registration (x2): $22/year.
    That totals $4,786/year.
    I must be missing something:
    For VPS server hosting (here in Germany) I would pay for the largest possible package at my web host $47 a month.
    This would give me a 16 vCore, 64 GB RAM, 2000 GB SSD (RAID10) and 80 TB Traffic virtual private server which would be completely under my own control.

    vBulletin 5 Connect (Includes free forum support for life of vBulletin 5 Connect) would be one time cost of $249.00

    Of course, the domain cost wouldn't differ.
    What's your host's political standpoint on hosting what could be seen in some circles as controversial material? I mention this because buying the cheapest / technically best solution doesn't grant immunity from being taken offline by the web host due to political pressure or some perceived breach of the host's policy.

    I'm sure Tommy has had to factor in all of this when choosing a host and, more widely, the systems needed to support PA securely into the future; this almost certainly means his solution won't be the cheapest around, but the one which is needed & works best in the circumstances.
    Last edited by ByTheNorthernSea; 19th September 2021 at 13:33.

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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by ByTheNorthernSea (here)
    What's your host's political standpoint on hosting what could be seen in some circles as controversial material? I mention this because buying the cheapest / technically best solution doesn't grant immunity from being taken offline by the web host due to political pressure or some perceived breach of the host's policy.

    I'm sure Tommy has had to factor in all of this when choosing a host and, more widely, the systems needed to support PA securely into the future; this almost certainly means his solution won't be the cheapest around.
    Yes, not to mention, you get what you pay for; a quality product and service is cost effective over the long term.

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  25. Link to Post #13
    Germany Avalon Member Michi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Sure. I wasn't talking about a cheapo provider neither. I did some diligent research before. Most serious web host garantee 99.9% uptime. And the package I mentioned, is their highest VPS package.

    Myself, I am using their lowest VPS package $3.15 a month, but this is of course for low traffic private use (nextcloud server).

    Tommy - could you chime in with your wisdom?
    "The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but to reveal to him his own."
    -- Benjamin Disraeli

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  27. Link to Post #14
    United States Avalon Member graciousb's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by pabranno (here)
    I have no idea how much this costs
    Actually, I've never broken it all down for the members in detail. Here are all the costs to the nearest dollar:
    • Avalon hosting + backup: $293/month.
    • Avalon Library hosting + backup: $61/month.
    • Independent secondary backup for both: $43/month.
    • Annual domain name registration (x2): $22/year.
    That totals $4,786/year.

    In addition to that, because Tommy (our senior admin) is a busy professional software specialist, I pay him something fair and appropriate each time (twice so far) he does something way beyond the call of voluntary duty to fix something which is challenging and time-consuming. Last year, that was the Avalon security warning issue, which was difficult and serious, and more recently the very stubborn page loading issue. Each of those took him quite a lot of focused work.

    Tommy is highly skilled, and we only send up a red flare for him to fix things which have defeated all other mortals on the team. But taking that into account, the costs top $5,000/year.

    We'll never accept advertising (or "sponsorship") of any kind. I personally detest that kind of commercial sell-your-soul cheapening, and always have. I've never monetized any of my videos, either, for the same reason.

    I live on a tiny UK pension (about $450/month) that reliably makes its way to Ecuador, and so that and PayPal donations are my only income of any kind. I usually get by just fine, and Mara (my dog) and I are well-fed and in good shape. My 100-year old farmhouse is all paid for, and so is my very ancient and quirky (but strong!) 35-year old 4x4.

    I truly lack nothing, and wake up every day profoundly grateful for abundance that shows up in every form, in every kind of unexpected way. Many Avalon members make $$ contributions (you know who you are! ) and I'm most profoundly grateful to every one of you, too.
    This brings tears to my eyes. Living with integrity and simplicity and undoubtedly being able to sleep well at night. The complications and mental debris most of us live with that obscures what is most true and worthwhile about this life. So grateful for you and what you've contributed.

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  29. Link to Post #15
    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Michi (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by pabranno (here)
    I have no idea how much this costs
    Actually, I've never broken it all down for the members in detail. Here are all the costs to the nearest dollar:
    • Avalon hosting + backup: $293/month.
    • Avalon Library hosting + backup: $61/month.
    • Independent secondary backup for both: $43/month.
    • Annual domain name registration (x2): $22/year.
    That totals $4,786/year.
    I must be missing something:
    For VPS server hosting (here in Germany) I would pay for the largest possible package at my web host $47 a month.
    This would give me a 16 vCore, 64 GB RAM, 2000 GB SSD (RAID10) and 80 TB Traffic virtual private server which would be completely under my own control.

    vBulletin 5 Connect (Includes free forum support for life of vBulletin 5 Connect) would be one time cost of $249.00

    Of course, the domain cost wouldn't differ.
    Thanks! I'd be pretty sure there's an excellent technical reason why Tommy specifically chose the host we currently have. But I'll draw his attention to this post.
    DDOS attacks are one very good possible reason... DDOS protection isn't cheap.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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  31. Link to Post #16
    Morocco Avalon Member PurpleLama's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Pamela, that’s a very lovely, heartfelt post.

    Yes, Avalon is a small treasure, like a beautiful little seashell on a mile-long beach. There may be storms and big waves sometimes, and quite a few other shells scattered around, but our little seashell is always there, high and safe on the sand.

    I know we reach a lot of people, and the right people. We may sometimes never know who they are. But the mods hear regularly from folk who tell us that they’ve been following everything here for years and years.
    (An aside: I think some people are discouraged by the apparently very personal membership application, which it may be prudent for us to try to trim down if we can. We barely need any of the information we ask for, and it’s more of a throwback to something like 2008 when the software was written. Since then, people are MUCH more wary about sharing personal info on the net, for all the reasons we can understand.)
    I sincerely believe Avalon is safe, as safe as anything can be online these days. We have two independent levels of backup, and an alternative way set up to get here if the domain name is lost or removed.

    And if yours truly ever disappears in the mountains (or decides to retire to Alpha Centauri (see this thread!), the mods have all the details to maintain the registration, the hosting, the donations, and everything else. The decade-old software is a little old and creaky, but Tommy is some kind of genius (he really is) and has managed to work his magic every time to fix something perfectly that seems plain broken to everyone else.

    But yes, as Janice Joplin sang, You don't know what you've got till it's gone. It's always healthy in every way, in mind body and spirit, for us to be fully aware of the blessings (and valued, beloved people) around us, and never ever get too complacent.

    I love me some Janice Joplin, Bill, but, uh, that ain't it. :b

    From Bill:

    Yes, my bad, it was Joni Mitchell.

    You got me, too. Before I could correct it to Janis, not Janice. :D
    From Bill again:
    OMG, I misspelt her name (sacrilege!)

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 21st September 2021 at 12:04.
    God bless the Fae
    God bless Me

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  33. Link to Post #17
    UK Avalon Member Sunny-side-up's Avatar
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    Default Re: What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    What If There Was No More Project Avalon

    I would be very, very sad and upset

    Project Avalon and it's members is a foundation point of truth and sanity to me.
    where would I/we be without you ?

    Long live Project Avalon
    Last edited by Sunny-side-up; 21st September 2021 at 09:45.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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