Иди и смотри - "Come and See"

[Mashika]

ETA: The video is blocked in most western countries! Surprise surprise!

If you can use a proxy or vpn, this is the direct link. How upsetting this is, truly!

https://youtu.be/UkkJZweYaLI


When i as around 11, i was forbidden to watch this movie, which of course made me go watch it even more lol. This is still one of the worst/sad/better experiences in life for me

In Russia, a lot of the culture goes in several ways, around war and specially WW2 and what we call "the patriotic war". So there are lots of movies pushing the idea of war and such

But this movie, it's anti-war, you will have to see it to understand

Please don't watch if you are currently sad or depressed, trust me!

Also enable the subtitles, this is not dubbed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_See

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UkkJZweYaLI

[JackWhite]

Recently, very often mentions of this film come across.
Thanks for the link.
I will definitely take a look.

[Strat]

It says that the video is unavailable, not region blocked. I do have a VPN. Is this the same movie (different link):

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NJYOg4ORc1w

[happyuk]

Posted by Malisa (here)
ETA: The video is blocked in most western countries! Surprise surprise!

If you can use a proxy or vpn, this is the direct link. How upsetting this is, truly!

https://youtu.be/UkkJZweYaLI


When i as around 11, i was forbidden to watch this movie, which of course made me go watch it even more lol. This is still one of the worst/sad/better experiences in life for me

In Russia, a lot of the culture goes in several ways, around war and specially WW2 and what we call "the patriotic war". So there are lots of movies pushing the idea of war and such

But this movie, it's anti-war, you will have to see it to understand

Please don't watch if you are currently sad or depressed, trust me!

Also enable the subtitles, this is not dubbed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_See

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UkkJZweYaLI

For the uninitiated: "Come and see" is a 1985 Soviet anti-war film dealing with the Nazi occupation of Belarus.

I'm finding that standard Google searches are starting to suck big time these days, I'm finding yandex.com (a Russian search engine!) increasingly useful.

I managed to found a version here Malisa, if that helps, though I'd love to find one with English subtitles again, I used to have this.

https://yandex.com/video/preview/?te...89587108417199

[Vicus]

Posted by Strat (here)
It says that the video is unavailable, not region blocked. I do have a VPN. Is this the same movie (different link):

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NJYOg4ORc1w

yes, it is...I saw it 2 years ago, I was just looking for movies and it catch my eyes how was described: the most horrific movie without been a horror movie...

[Open Minded Dude]

Posted by Vicus (here)
the most horrific movie without been a horror movie...

This is also more or less the core statment of the review which I saw about a year or so. Found it still on YT:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RR0R7zsd7D8

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)

Posted by Vicus (here)
the most horrific movie without been a horror movie...

This is also more or less the core statement of the review which I saw about a year or so. Found it still on YT:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=RR0R7zsd7D8

Excellent. (And this has English subtitles.) For anyone who can't access or see it, it's now in the Avalon Library.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Come_and_See_%281985%29.mp4

[lake]

This is also a very harsh and currently 'maybe coming on-topic' film about actions which did occur ....

The Chekist (1992) - EN subtitles

The film is set during the Russian Civil War in the period of the Red Terror. In a provincial Cheka (the All-Russian Emergency Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage) office in an unnamed small town, a routine bureaucratic work is taking place. Every day, a Cheka troika tribunal made of director Srubov and his assistants Pepel and Katz reads out a long list of all kinds of real and perceived counter-revolutionaries and class enemies. Those arrested are always immediately found guilty and the sentence, regardless of the accusation, gender and age of the person, is the same - to be shot.

The terrible conveyor of death operates in the basement, overseen by Srubov: the prisoners are systematically taken out of their cell, ordered to undress, placed against the wall in fives, and shot, usually in the back of the head. Following the secret killings, the naked corpses are then dragged by feet through a special window in the cellar, loaded into a truck, and taken away, to forever disappear without a trace.


Source: Watch on Vimeo

[Strat]

Wanted to give my thoughts on this: So I watched the entire movie which surprised me. I never watch movie recommendations, not out of spite but just because I don't care too much and I have 100 other movies I want to watch at any given time. I guess this was meant to be. I thought I should watch the first 5 minutes to make sure it's the same thing Malisa is talking about. I suppose one scene led to another and I ended up watching the whole movie.

It's an important film for sure. I think Americans in general should watch it. Speaking for US citizens, we don't think about land invasions. I didn't know until my early 20s what the Russians went through in WW2. This isn't due to a shoddy education system but an extremely effective brainwashing/human die casting technique. I learned of Russia's involvement because I would (and still do) read a lot. Many if not most in the US are still in the mindset that the US stormed in on the Nazi's and saved the world. So I think if folks in the US watched this then that would create curiosity in at least some people to look into what Russia sacrificed. At least google the stats.. it's really damming.

It's not entirely entertaining and in fact some scenes you may want to look away. However, that's the point. This film isn't trying to entertain you with scenes of heroism but to send a message by demonstrating the horrors of war and conflict. Some shots are held too long but I believe this is intentional. It's ironic because I want to say "They weren't trying to win awards when they made this movie" but they did. Surely it won awards because it broke a mold and 1000% did the job of sending a message.

Now what I have to say next is something that I can't get out of my head. How could this movie possibly be an anti war movie? It demonstrates the necessity of war. Of course not all war is necessary, but some are. It especially confuses me that this is a Russian film and of all wars they used WW2 as an example of war being wrong. If Russia didn't participate in the war against the Nazi's then this movie would have never been made. Thoughts?

[Open Minded Dude]

Sometimes films have to be 'graphic' to make a point and leave the impression intended when it is about unspeakable historic atrocities.

I remember as a teen I was absolutely shocked by the ending of "Soldier Blue" which actually had started and gone along as a normal "Western" movie but then ended with the depiction of the historic Sand Creek massacre:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_Creek_massacre

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gTnqAGh-iXE

Has anyone seen or remembered this film? It's a movie to be recommended, too, for sure.

[Mashika]

Posted by Strat (here)
How could this movie possibly be an anti war movie? It demonstrates the necessity of war. Of course not all war is necessary, but some are. It especially confuses me that this is a Russian film and of all wars they used WW2 as an example of war being wrong. If Russia didn't participate in the war against the Nazi's then this movie would have never been made. Thoughts?

When you go out there, you go with firm beliefs in something like "my country" or "the honor" or "the people"

But once someone points a gun at you, then it turns into "my life" and you point your gun at them and shoot

It becomes a "you or me" game "And nothing else matters"

That's pretty much it. You may get a medal, or a few, depending on how you got out of there. And you will get out of there in some way at the end, but none of that matters at the time you are just trying to keep yourself alive, and you have to deal with dead people all over the place and kill some yourself and see your friends drop and at the end of the day or at 5 am regroup and see some are not there anymore and "assume what must be assumed"

That's the basics of it all

And that's why this is an anti-war movie, do you want to go live through that? On all sides? Germans were happy to invade, not so happy when they were invaded and the same happened to them back home. The idea is, if you can cause it "to them" chances are "they can cause it to you" as well

War is war, right? And death is death, nationality is of no consequence

[Strat]

Posted by Malisa (here)

Posted by Strat (here)
How could this movie possibly be an anti war movie? It demonstrates the necessity of war. Of course not all war is necessary, but some are. It especially confuses me that this is a Russian film and of all wars they used WW2 as an example of war being wrong. If Russia didn't participate in the war against the Nazi's then this movie would have never been made. Thoughts?

When you go out there, you go with firm beliefs in something like "my country" or "the honor" or "the people"

But once someone points a gun at you, then it turns into "my life" and you point your gun at them and shoot

It becomes a "you or me" game "And nothing else matters"

That's pretty much it. You may get a medal, or a few, depending on how you got out of there. And you will get out of there in some way at the end, but none of that matters at the time you are just trying to keep yourself alive, and you have to deal with dead people all over the place and kill some yourself and see your friends drop and at the end of the day or at 5 am regroup and see some are not there anymore and "assume what must be assumed"

That's the basics of it all

This is inconsistent with what I hear from veterans from multiple wars. I have heard that the wars get more personal after watching friends die, but there's never any assuming. On top of that veterans my age always want to go back.

Posted by Malisa (here)
And that's why this is an anti-war movie, do you want to go live through that? On all sides? Germans were happy to invade, not so happy when they were invaded and the same happened to them back home. The idea is, if you can cause it "to them" chances are "they can cause it to you" as well

Yeah but that's just it... They invaded. If there was no push back you might not exist right now or you would be speaking German. How many of your people would have been slaughtered in a death factory? You truly think it would be best to allow that to happen or simply ask them to stop? Do you need a convincing reason to fight back? There is a bigger picture that you're fighting for.

Remember the scene where all the villagers are thrown in a barn and burned? Would you just allow them to move on and continue to do this?

Posted by Malisa (here)
War is war, right? And death is death, nationality is of no consequence

I disagree with the first two. War is war and death is death is a gross oversimplification. Certain wars are necessary whereas others are just one nation overstepping it's bounds. US history is a great example of this with our history of bs wars but several were necessary.

Regarding death is death. There's a difference between dying in a home surrounded by loved ones or being thrown in a mass grave and shot.

I appreciate this conversation, you're obviously not the only one to say this film is anti war. Like I said I'm trying to wrap my head around this. But the whole concept of anti war just seems really out of touch to me. Kinda like saying "wouldn't it be neat if money grew on trees" yeah that'd be awesome but it doesn't. It's like suggesting all countries just agree to abolish all their armies simultaneously and everyone works together from here on out. That will not happen in 1000 years.

[Mashika]

Posted by Strat (here)

Posted by Malisa (here)

Posted by Strat (here)
How could this movie possibly be an anti war movie? It demonstrates the necessity of war. Of course not all war is necessary, but some are. It especially confuses me that this is a Russian film and of all wars they used WW2 as an example of war being wrong. If Russia didn't participate in the war against the Nazi's then this movie would have never been made. Thoughts?

When you go out there, you go with firm beliefs in something like "my country" or "the honor" or "the people"

But once someone points a gun at you, then it turns into "my life" and you point your gun at them and shoot

It becomes a "you or me" game "And nothing else matters"

That's pretty much it. You may get a medal, or a few, depending on how you got out of there. And you will get out of there in some way at the end, but none of that matters at the time you are just trying to keep yourself alive, and you have to deal with dead people all over the place and kill some yourself and see your friends drop and at the end of the day or at 5 am regroup and see some are not there anymore and "assume what must be assumed"

That's the basics of it all

This is inconsistent with what I hear from veterans from multiple wars. I have heard that the wars get more personal after watching friends die, but there's never any assuming. On top of that veterans my age always want to go back.

Posted by Malisa (here)
And that's why this is an anti-war movie, do you want to go live through that? On all sides? Germans were happy to invade, not so happy when they were invaded and the same happened to them back home. The idea is, if you can cause it "to them" chances are "they can cause it to you" as well

Yeah but that's just it... They invaded. If there was no push back you might not exist right now or you would be speaking German. How many of your people would have been slaughtered in a death factory? You truly think it would be best to allow that to happen or simply ask them to stop? Do you need a convincing reason to fight back? There is a bigger picture that you're fighting for.

Remember the scene where all the villagers are thrown in a barn and burned? Would you just allow them to move on and continue to do this?

Posted by Malisa (here)
War is war, right? And death is death, nationality is of no consequence

I disagree with the first two. War is war and death is death is a gross oversimplification. Certain wars are necessary whereas others are just one nation overstepping it's bounds. US history is a great example of this with our history of bs wars but several were necessary.

Regarding death is death. There's a difference between dying in a home surrounded by loved ones or being thrown in a mass grave and shot.

I appreciate this conversation, you're obviously not the only one to say this film is anti war. Like I said I'm trying to wrap my head around this. But the whole concept of anti war just seems really out of touch to me. Kinda like saying "wouldn't it be neat if money grew on trees" yeah that'd be awesome but it doesn't. It's like suggesting all countries just agree to abolish all their armies simultaneously and everyone works together from here on out. That will not happen in 1000 years.

When the zone is hot as hell and someone doesn't return in 24 hours or so, you "assume" they are dead or MIA. You can't go there looking for them, and that also happened in all wars before, you just can't go looking and die too. I don't know what you are referencing here otherwise

Regarding death is death. There's a difference between dying in a home surrounded by loved ones or being thrown in a mass grave and shot.

If you die, you are alive one second, the next one you are not. See this is a difference between views, if you fall from a very tall building, the moment you hit the ground and your brain goes out, you are dead, one moment to another makes all the difference. Same thing i am talking about, one moment you are alive, one moment you are not. On war, you have to understand that life ends like this, and you have to come to terms that you may not have a peaceful death moment surrounded by loved ones. Because you can become a dead person right there on the road at any time, if you get hit by a sniper out of nowhere. See?

Life is hard for a soldier, that's what i was trying to say. Normal ideals or expectations about death don't apply if your brain gets blown out by a sniper while you were drinking your soda can sitting there while on your lunch break

War and enemy doesn't care

ETA:

If you go for a walk or to the convenience store and a truck or car goes out of the way and runs over you, then you may die. Not on war, and not on your bed, but you die. Explain the difference. You were alive and then went for your soda can, then you are dead, someone will have to call your family to explain.

If you die, you die. We all die, one way or another, on time. Why is that so hard to accept?

[Strat]

I don't mind replying to all of this, but I think my salient point has been ignored. The Nazi's had to be stopped and therefore the war against them was absolutely necessary. Agreed? This is an extremely important point to clear up.

We can debate these other points if you wish, totally fine by me. And they are interesting thoughts. But I want to be sure we're on the same page here and I'm not going to debate anything else until this is settled.

[Spiral]

Posted by Strat (here)
I don't mind replying to all of this, but I think my salient point has been ignored. The Nazi's had to be stopped and therefore the war against them was absolutely necessary. Agreed? This is an extremely important point to clear up.

We can debate these other points if you wish, totally fine by me. And they are interesting thoughts. But I want to be sure we're on the same page here and I'm not going to debate anything else until this is settled.

Having read your exchange I have to agree with you, the invasion of Russia wasn't like other wars. Previously wars were usually about the change of leaders, who then owned the land & taxed the populace etc.

The Nazis went in with the express intent to eradicate the inhabitants & create a greater homeland for their "Aryan" race, therefore there was NO choice, it was fight back or die.

[Bill Ryan]

https://t.me/TXDPR/2816

[Bill Ryan]

Donbass Devushka posted this yesterday. Come and See is right in there, but she's also listed a bunch of companion films that are all most valuable for western readers to know about.

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/61418

[Ewan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Excellent. (And this has English subtitles.) For anyone who can't access or see it, it's now in the Avalon Library.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Come_and_See.mp4

Hi Bill, URL needs updating to the one below.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Come_and_See_%281985%29.mp4

From Bill:
Many thanks, and I corrected the link. (The problem is that if or when any item in the Library is moved or renamed, there's no redirect mechanism that preserves the original URLs after they've been posted.)

[Satori]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Donbass Devushka posted this yesterday. Come and See is right in there, but she's also listed a bunch of companion films that are all most valuable for western readers to know about.

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/61418

I watched Come and See. A very compelling and powerful film. It came out in the mid-80s as I recall.

I generally do not watch films with subtitles because I have difficulty reading and watching, while also enjoying, or at least following, the film. But, Come and See was an exception to that for me.

The film speaks volumes from the visuals alone, but also including and especially the expressions on the actors’ faces and their body language, with relatively little subtitles.

I definitely recommend Come and See.