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Thread: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

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    Great Britain Avalon Member Jambo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    This is the problem with this situation.
    Whilst China is no saint or even decent in the scheme of world politics or decency to their own people... part of me wants China to show their backbone and say "screw you USA government" and react to any provocation.
    The thing is though, I have good friends from University who are from Taiwan.
    Probably one of the nicest guys I've ever meet in my life (Kun-Chen) happens to be from Taiwan, so I wouldn't want a speck of badness to happen to him or his family, or for that manner ... any of the Taiwanese people.
    Yet I'm sick of the Hegemonic influence & arrogance the US government shows to all the countries around the world.

    All that said I want Taiwan to be protected from China, but I just don't believe the USA do anything from decency, but from political benefit.
    Last edited by Jambo; 3rd August 2022 at 13:03. Reason: Corrected... I to I've

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    UK Avalon Member Mike Gorman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Just checked https://www.taiwan.gov.tw/ and it is unreachable from my Perth internet connection

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Accessed via ASB Military's Telegram channel which I can't link to at work here but can share via George Galloway's Twitter post from around 22 minutes or so ago, at the time of this posting of mine:



    Source: https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/s...73696764608512
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Just reported (here)

    Nancy Pelosi has landed in Taiwan

    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Yester-day some of us suspected Pelosi would visit Taiwan even though she specifically failed to mention it in her tweet regarding her travel itinerary.

    America has no scruples. They wanted to deliberately piss China off.

    Now we wait and see what else China does besides closing off the Taiwan Strait to civilian aviation.

    China is very patient but they made no secret about what they think of this american posture.
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
    Yester-day some of us suspected Pelosi would visit Taiwan even though she specifically failed to mention it in her tweet regarding her travel itinerary.

    America has no scruples. They wanted to deliberately piss China off.

    Now we wait and see what else China does besides closing off the Taiwan Strait to civilian aviation.

    China is very patient but they made no secret about what they think of this american posture.
    NOT "they"

    the unscrupulous usurpers who have taken our government hostage

    the drunken with power just basking in unmerited and undeserved attention Pelosi

    ALL bought and paid for by weak opponents who seek to reduce us to their level

    because they cannot stand the sight of America continuing in power

    from ALL of the insidious ill will leveled at America?

    i look forward to the Universal Laws that have NO exemptions

    and CANNOT be disregarded

    to personally experience the effects of THEIR choices .. fully

    may it serve their evolution to perhaps choose other than ill will in the future

    particularly to a country filled with good, kind, compassionate, generous people
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Quote Posted by iota (here)

    NOT "they"

    the unscrupulous usurpers who have taken our government hostage
    It really makes no sense why a congressperson in the form of the Speaker would make any international trip at all. Or why someone else might think it to be a good idea. It is not new, the Speaker has travelled occasionally but I always thought it was misplaced as far a 'key decisions' are concerned.

    All I can think of is they want to send a senior elected official as a means of the least threatening posture possible. 'America is represented,' and that is seemingly the only goal that is accomplished by such a decision.

    UkraineMaps said the following on Telegram:

    Quote The Americans won 2 things here:

    They showed the world that China has a habit of threatening without action;

    They are now more determined than ever to make Taiwan fully independent.
    I disagree. China is never in a hurry. I think they will take action. I am not sure it will be violent. But I do think they will do their due diligence in time.

    America has typically backed Taiwan and that is nothing new. America basically is saying 'I do what I want'; like a 13 y.o. teenager.


    China warns of 'targeted military actions' as Pelosi arrives in Taiwan
    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0...-china-taiwan/
    Last edited by JackMcThorn; 2nd August 2022 at 20:21.
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Quick Updates on the Situation between China and Taiwan

    Air Raid sirens going off in South China

    ---Taiwan government websites are being locked

    ---Chinese channel CGTN reported that Chinese fighter jets are crossing the Taiwan Strait and flying towards Taiwan.

    ---There have been unverified rumors about dozens of US Air Force planes taking off from Japan.


    https://twitter.com/WorldBreakingN9/...Fread%3D204666

    Further reading…couldn’t embed

    https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bi...gi?read=204666

    Viking
    You decide...your thoughts..your actions..your reality.
    Choose well.
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Quote Posted by viking (here)
    Quick Updates on the Situation between China and Taiwan

    Air Raid sirens going off in South China

    ---Taiwan government websites are being locked

    ---Chinese channel CGTN reported that Chinese fighter jets are crossing the Taiwan Strait and flying towards Taiwan.

    ---There have been unverified rumors about dozens of US Air Force planes taking off from Japan.

    Viking
    I can see why there might be a slight Panic. Red squares are the Chinese Fleet positions for that "Drill".


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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)


    It really makes no sense why a congressperson in the form of the Speaker would make any international trip at all. Or why someone else might think it to be a good idea. It is not new, the Speaker has travelled occasionally but I always thought it was misplaced as far a 'key decisions' are concerned.

    All I can think of is they want to send a senior elected official as a means of the least threatening posture possible. 'America is represented,' and that is seemingly the only goal that is accomplished by such a decision.
    the high level trip is actually nothing extraordinary
    it is simply a continuation of an event that has precedent:

    when president Trump was in office?

    he sent a delegation to Taiwan in 2019

    High-Level US Visits to Taiwan Mark 40 Years of Unofficial Ties





    this caused:

    "TYPICALLY BLIND adulation of America has swept across Taiwan with the recent visit of Paul Ryan to Taiwan in order to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the Taiwan Relations Act. This should be of little surprise, however."

    read full article here: https://newbloommag.net/2019/04/16/r...-celebrations/


    that visit was against the wishes of China as well

    see Asian Times here:
    https://asiatimes.com/2019/04/beijin...sit-to-taiwan/


    The difference being China knew not to threaten the USA under the strong and powerful leadership of a president such as Donald Trump


    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
    America has typically backed Taiwan and that is nothing new.
    America basically is saying 'I do what I want'; like a 13 y.o. teenager.
    not quite

    a 13 yr old is merely learning to flex its muscles

    and through experience of the effect of its choices being reflected back?

    will come to understand what is beneficial and what is not

    uncertainty is hallmarked due to inexperience and the absence of a solid foundation which will only come through maturity, age and experience

    hardly a fitting comparison to an unquestionable world power

    consider that one is EITHER powerful? or compelled to subjugation of the wishes of others

    they feared Trump because he would NEVER bend to the whims others sought to impose upon him

    the stance:

    'I do what I want'

    from an insecure teenager? completely lacks the might, ability and clout of a world power

    who doesn't actually NEED to say:

    " i will do AS i will DO"

    it just DOES it

    a different connotation altogether

    Last edited by iota; 5th August 2022 at 07:30. Reason: line spacing
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    I found more about the video in Tintin's post about sirens going off in China; the news website London Loves Business is not one that I've come across before so I don't know how accurate or biased it might be, but it seems to have general news with a slant on business, finance and world affairs.

    Anyway, it says that the siren footage is from Fujian, a province on the Taiwan Strait that faces Taiwan.

    Quote The US House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi has arrived in Taipei despite warnings this could spark war between China and Taiwan for her controversial trip.

    As Pelosi (sic) plane was flying towards Taipei, “Taiwanese aircraft opened warning fire in the Taiwan Strait” it was reported shortly before 4pm UK time.

    “Combat air-raid sirens” can be heard blaring out in the Fujian city of China and Beijing warned this afternoon that they “will take decisive measures to protect state sovereignty and territorial integrity – the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People’s Republic of China.”

    On Tuesday “dozens of US Air Force fighter jets” were “lifted from bases in Japan to Taiwan” amid the high tensions over Pelosi’s disputed visit to Taipei.

    An “undisclosed amount” of “Taiwanese aircraft have taken to the air” followed by “Chinese J-16 fighter jets appeared at the southern end of Bashi Strait,” Taiwanese media SETN reported.

    Before Pelosi arrived in Songshan airport in Taiwan where the Taiwanese military removed “camouflage covers were removed from anti-aircraft guns” which re “installed near the runway” and also “radar systems” were also “brought to a state of readiness.”

    Channel 4’s International Editor Lindsey Hilsum warned, “One of the senior American officials from the Defence Department said the other day: you know, the problem with all this is that sooner or later there’s going to be an accident.
    ...
    Earlier today large convoys of Chinese tanks were seen driving through the Fujian city and along a beach with horrified holidaymakers looking on, and the Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) has closed the airspace on Tuesday heading towards Taiwan.

    Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian warned on Monday that Beijing “will not sit back” in what he calls “a gross interference in China’s internal affairs,” then sent a further warning of “very serious developments and consequences.”

    On Tuesday Lijian again warned, “If Pelosi insists on visiting Taiwan, China will take resolute and strong measures to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

    He added, “Those who play with fire will perish by it.

    “We would like to once again admonish the US that we are fully prepared for any eventuality and the PLA will never sit idly by.”
    Last edited by Brigantia; 2nd August 2022 at 21:02.

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    PS Nancy's tweet


    **

    i wonder how much the writers get paid to make these "officials" sound good?

    i say overall? it has achieved wild success in its endeavor to remove focus from possible criminal charges of insider trading that were arising in her direction.

    the emulation and continuance of a precedent set by a much beloved and powerful leader, president Trump?

    has slightly shifted some of that positive affirmation towards a party whose ratings were the lowest in history

    the employment of creative and intelligent talent to write for them can only be an improvement from blubbering and stuttering that is actually an accurate representation of her in reality

    this 60 second video provides a sharp contrast to the eloquence expressed in her tweet





    enjoy the show

    Last edited by iota; 3rd August 2022 at 02:47. Reason: added last phrase and pop corn
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Last edited by iota; 3rd August 2022 at 04:38.
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    From Zero Hedge this morning:
    20+ PLA Jets Cross Median Line over Taiwan Strait as Chinese Drills Encircle Island

    Less than a half-day after Nancy Pelosi's departure from Taiwan on a US Air Force plane, a large group of 27 Chinese PLA planes breached Taiwan's air defense identification zone Wednesday, crucially with at least 22 of the aircraft reported as having crossed the Taiwan Strait "median line".

    A map posted to Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense showed the brief crossovers by the PLA jets. In response, the ministry said it issued radio warnings and readied air defense missile systems to monitor the activities. Taiwan previously said it won't hesitated to deploy its armed forces to thwart "enemy threats". Already as Pelosi's plane was inbound yesterday from Malaysia Chinese planes and ships had buzzed the median line, which demarcates what the self-ruled island deems its own territorial waters.

    "27 PLA aircraft (J-11*6, J-16*5 and SU-30*16) entered the surrounding area of R.O.C. on August 3, 2022," Taiwan's military wrote in official social media posts. Earlier in the day state-run English language PRC mouthpiece Global Times declared that Beijing now views the median line has having ceased to exist.

    "The exercises are unprecedented as the PLA conventional missiles are expected to fly over the island of Taiwan for the first time, the PLA forces will enter area within 12 nautical miles of the island and that the so-called median line will cease to exist," the publication wrote while detailing the next phase of PLA drills to surround the island.



    Taiwan's military has since confirmed breaches of its territorial waters and airspace above "by force" as the PLA continues its threatening tactics.

    (the long article continues, and is being regularly updated)

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Col. Douglas Macgregor talking to Tucker Carlson. (If anyone has a link to the full interview, or the full Tucker Carlson show, please share it... many thx.)

    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...26871454797826

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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    A fun commentary about this situation from The Saker:
    Nancy braves the Chinese dragon and wins?

    So, it appears that Pelosi landed in Taiwan. This is a HUGE victory for the invincible USA and China with all its hollow threats has now lost face. That is how those evil commies are – they only understand the language of force, and when faced with the united forces of democracy they cave.

    Right?
    Right?!
    Well……

    Yes, if your expertise in international relation, military matters and China (or Russia) come from reading Tom Clancy’s books, then yes.

    But there is another way to look at this:

    First, in objective terms, this visit is a pure provocation with no practical effects whatsoever. Pelosi is as much a old teleprompter reading hag as President Brandon. Whatever real dealings the USA and Taiwan had to discuss, they would have done that either remotely or by arranging a meeting between people capable of thinking.

    Second, just like Russia many times in the past, the Chinese drew a red line and then let the US cross it. Being the narcissistic civilization that it is, the West only saw this as a sign of “weakness”, “indecisiveness” or even “naivete”. What these folks fail to even think about is this: how do you feel most Chinese will react both to the visit and to the lack of Chinese reaction (so far!)?

    They will get mad and express their frustrations. Now look at it from the Chinese government’s point of view, rather then spending billions on anti-US propaganda they, instead, let the US humiliate China and thereby solidifying the Chinese population for the day when the real confrontation will take place.
    [Sidebar: there is a direct connection between years of Kremlin’s rather weak and mostly verbal protests and the “sudden” appearance of the Russian ultimatum to the West followed by the SMO: the Kremlin literally “cooked” its own public opinion to the point were IT *demanded* strong action. Far from alienating or frightening most Russians, the SMO came as a huge relief to them: “we are FINALLY putting the foot down and taking real action”. That would not have been possible before 2018. Those in the West who saw Putin’s “indecisiveness” simply don’t understand the Russian mindset anymore than they understand the Chinese one. Simply put: you cannot prepare for war without preparing your own population for it! That is what Tom Clancy does to the brains of those reading him]
    Third, let me ask you a simple question: who decided on the timing of Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan? The answer is obvious, it was the leaders of the USA. And you can bet that they had everything carefully lined up to make that visit happen in the best of possible circumstances. Now, a BASIC principle of warfare is that you do NOT let your enemy chose the time and place of the battle. Yes, yes, yes, in the western culture any “affront” (real or perceived) demands an immediate reaction.

    But the Chinese have been at this for many millennia, not just 200 years, and they know better and you can be sure that THEY, not the USA, will chose the time, place and mode of retaliation.

    In sum, the woke-soaking narcissists who run the USA can celebrate how they chose “them Chinese commies” who is boss. Just like they did with Russia between 1991 and 2021. And then, when the Russians decided to act, Uncle Shmuel was caught totally off-guard and clueless as to who to deal with this sudden and direct threat.

    Last but not least. That kind of imperial arrogance is something which not only impact (the already pretty angry Chinese population), it also infuriates all of Zone B, thereby creating the conditions for more defeats for the USA in Asia, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, Central Asia and Latin America.

    Most US Americans have absolutely no idea how offensive their condescending arrogance, constant flag waving, talks about their messianic mission for mankind and general narcissism is offensive to the rest of the planet. But when you look objectively at the endless list of US failures pretty much anywhere on the planet, you can tell that there is something deep going on here. For some reason, the “Yankees go home” thing seems to be very contagious.

    I think that Nancy Pelosi deserves our profound gratitude. She should get at least two medals:
    • One from the CP of China in gratitude for her endless efforts to rally the people of China around their government, and
    • One from Russia, for her endless efforts into solidifying the Russian-Chinese alliance.
    Truth be told, between Bliken and Pelosi the national security interests of China and Russia are in good hands.

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  35. Link to Post #78
    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Just posted here

    Pelosi has left





    as an added note, i'd like to say that though i despise her and the communist party she represents and i feel is involved in attempting to infiltrate into this land of Freedom?

    it has NOT been noted that America and the good people of this country have been subjected to a level of bashing and crticism that is unparallel and unwarranted

    EVERY country deserves to have national pride, we are NO exemption

    yet throughout the ENTIRE Trump presidency and the last SIX years, in particular?

    to dare to breathe a bit of pride in the country that supposedly at least represented the ideals of FREEDOM and Liberty?

    ideals i DO believe EVERY human on the planet would like to have?

    ideals this particular group of humans actually got up and took action to CREATE in the formation of the United States of America?

    is something to be proud of and hope serves to provide inspiration, not criticism!

    are we tired now and a bit defensive at being bashed?

    BEYOND doubt and COMPLETELY justified and understandable

    IF other countries FLOOD ours in pursuit of the dream that it offers?

    we GET to be proud of that fact that this IS a country that creates this type of possibilities

    i'm a FIRM believer in boundaries

    and the boundaries and tolerance of patriots EVERYWHERE in this country have been severely tested

    in an unprecedented manner for over SIX years .. relentlessly, with no end in sight

    it hasn't really been discussed how we have been villified for patriotism in our own country ..

    we've been pretty beat up in fact, so i'd like to offer a word of encouragement instead:

    we get to be proud to be an Americans

    at the very least as much as others (who for whatever reason) feel entitled to do so?

    get to criticize us

    boundaries are good, i'd love for ALL of these "officials" (usurpers) who HATE our country?

    to please leave it, and leave us alone

    because i think SIX years of bashing us for being American and patriotic is about the limit of what most of us should be made to endure

    we are NOT the “officials” that have taken over this country, now? or in the past

    they betrayed our trust and their treason is odious to us as well

    but that is enough of the shaming for being white, straight or American

    we are a good, kind, compassionate people who value Liberty and Freedom

    i DO think that IS something to be proud of

    Last edited by iota; 5th August 2022 at 15:53.
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    • Russia Vows To Join China In US Taiwan War Sparking WW3 Fears, China To FIRE MISSILES Over Taiwan:
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flirting with War (China vs Taiwan, and whatever might ensue)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    A fun commentary about this situation from The Saker:
    Nancy braves the Chinese dragon and wins?

    So, it appears that Pelosi landed in Taiwan. This is a HUGE victory for the invincible USA and China with all its hollow threats has now lost face. That is how those evil commies are – they only understand the language of force, and when faced with the united forces of democracy they cave.

    Right?
    Right?!
    Well……

    Yes, if your expertise in international relation, military matters and China (or Russia) come from reading Tom Clancy’s books, then yes.

    But there is another way to look at this:

    First, in objective terms, this visit is a pure provocation with no practical effects whatsoever. Pelosi is as much a old teleprompter reading hag as President Brandon. Whatever real dealings the USA and Taiwan had to discuss, they would have done that either remotely or by arranging a meeting between people capable of thinking.

    Second, just like Russia many times in the past, the Chinese drew a red line and then let the US cross it. Being the narcissistic civilization that it is, the West only saw this as a sign of “weakness”, “indecisiveness” or even “naivete”. What these folks fail to even think about is this: how do you feel most Chinese will react both to the visit and to the lack of Chinese reaction (so far!)?

    They will get mad and express their frustrations. Now look at it from the Chinese government’s point of view, rather then spending billions on anti-US propaganda they, instead, let the US humiliate China and thereby solidifying the Chinese population for the day when the real confrontation will take place.
    [Sidebar: there is a direct connection between years of Kremlin’s rather weak and mostly verbal protests and the “sudden” appearance of the Russian ultimatum to the West followed by the SMO: the Kremlin literally “cooked” its own public opinion to the point were IT *demanded* strong action. Far from alienating or frightening most Russians, the SMO came as a huge relief to them: “we are FINALLY putting the foot down and taking real action”. That would not have been possible before 2018. Those in the West who saw Putin’s “indecisiveness” simply don’t understand the Russian mindset anymore than they understand the Chinese one. Simply put: you cannot prepare for war without preparing your own population for it! That is what Tom Clancy does to the brains of those reading him]
    Third, let me ask you a simple question: who decided on the timing of Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan? The answer is obvious, it was the leaders of the USA. And you can bet that they had everything carefully lined up to make that visit happen in the best of possible circumstances. Now, a BASIC principle of warfare is that you do NOT let your enemy chose the time and place of the battle. Yes, yes, yes, in the western culture any “affront” (real or perceived) demands an immediate reaction.

    But the Chinese have been at this for many millennia, not just 200 years, and they know better and you can be sure that THEY, not the USA, will chose the time, place and mode of retaliation.

    In sum, the woke-soaking narcissists who run the USA can celebrate how they chose “them Chinese commies” who is boss. Just like they did with Russia between 1991 and 2021. And then, when the Russians decided to act, Uncle Shmuel was caught totally off-guard and clueless as to who to deal with this sudden and direct threat.

    Last but not least. That kind of imperial arrogance is something which not only impact (the already pretty angry Chinese population), it also infuriates all of Zone B, thereby creating the conditions for more defeats for the USA in Asia, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, Central Asia and Latin America.

    Most US Americans have absolutely no idea how offensive their condescending arrogance, constant flag waving, talks about their messianic mission for mankind and general narcissism is offensive to the rest of the planet. But when you look objectively at the endless list of US failures pretty much anywhere on the planet, you can tell that there is something deep going on here. For some reason, the “Yankees go home” thing seems to be very contagious.

    I think that Nancy Pelosi deserves our profound gratitude. She should get at least two medals:
    • One from the CP of China in gratitude for her endless efforts to rally the people of China around their government, and
    • One from Russia, for her endless efforts into solidifying the Russian-Chinese alliance.
    Truth be told, between Bliken and Pelosi the national security interests of China and Russia are in good hands.
    The United States is being led to slaughter.
    This being done after the stolen election and the Pentagon now a den of traitors.
    There was nothing wrong with Trump's "America first" nationalism, it was a message meant to embolden all countries to wish the best for their own country and say nay to globalism.

    No one will suffer more in a world war three scenario then the United States citizens.

    What once was the example for the rest of the world to follow will most likely be no more.

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