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Thread: Church, tithing and membership

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    Default Church, tithing and membership

    Okay, I'm not going to use scriptures but this is just a personal question and I'm interested in knowning what is the best step forward from people's opinions.
    I am returning back to church away from new age and supernatural experiences that I have gone through.
    I openly accept Jesus Christ and the holy spirit as the one true God etc. (not open to discussion).
    However, my questions is so many churches take on money and tithing in the fact that some pay up and demand that you give to them, some swear on tithing a full 10pc and others are humble and accept donations only. So who is right?
    To join a church should get to know love and God and Jesus from the heart. To me it should not depend on tithing to join a church. So what do you all think?. If I get a few opinions it will really help me to decide the best route forwards.
    I'm not open to arguments or else Mods have the right to close this down end of. I'm looking for personal opinions and personal experiences.
    I just think you should give from the heart. It' s not that I don't want to give, but based on bible studies and leaving the money issues aside till last. This particular church states that you have to give a tithe whole hearted to the church to expand.
    The church I have started going to is a church I went to in the 90
    's they call me a fall away. Stating oh well you need to be guided again if you want to return.

    This is ludicrous to me because at the end of the day, what I've gone through and what I do is still love .. anyways if anyone can respond in a decent manner aka non argumentative way I'd appreciate any advice. I hope I make sense angels.

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    I'm with you Angels. Anywhere that demands a tithing is nowhere I'd want to be. A true love-based church will accept anyone regardless of details like this.

    What lead you to choose this current church you're attending?
    Last edited by Tyy1907; 11th October 2021 at 23:09.
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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    Hi Angels; I'm surprised by what you have shared with us as I thought that tithing was now consigned to the history books. I suppose that with declining congregations they need the means to survive, but I would say that it should be voluntary.

    Tithing is fine for those with a decent income but would deter people who are struggling to break even every month, it's not very inclusive and could drive away those in most need of the help, social contact and support that churches can provide.

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    If tith means membership fee, then no. If it means hall rental then yes. If it means build the church coffers up then no. God basically hates money worship.

    We already pay tax to the community, so in my own strong opinion religious institutions are rich enough, unless there is a specific campaign for repairs for your Church or something. The government might not spend all of it how it should, but lots goes to a socialist system of benefit, which pays for the 'free' nurses, road maintenance, all sorts. Not all of it is wasted on corruption, although a lot is. But point is, we pay to the community already. So if I was going to give tith to a church it certainly would not be a taxation level donation, and I would donate to Christians Against Poverty (CAP) more than I would the Church directly. Good luck with this!

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    Funfact: In Germany, part of your income is taxed by the government and paid directly to the church...now that takes a tythe to a WHOLE new level!

    It "seems" to me that for a few millennia (or more) Churches often seem more like franchises than anything else. Expanding and carving up territories...globally, driving out competitors, but their model also includes unpaid "volunteers" for almost everything and they and the "clergy" are are tax exempt often taking vows of "poverty" while living in opulence and luxury.

    Sooooo generally no, I would not "tythe" but I may donate as I see fit and my means allow to particular areas I resonate with.

    I am also aware that their monstrous wealth and resources have produced some of our greatest artistic, scientific, and architecture...as well staggering good work...also a lot of suffering, misery.

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    HTML Code:
    I am returning back to church away from new age and supernatural experiences that I have gone through.
    I had the same experiences and have arrived back at the truth.

    I would pray and ask to be shown which church the LORD wants you to join, it may well not be the one your attending.



    This question of tithes has been on my mind for a while although it does seem to be more of an American thing that you are expected to give a full 10% of income - but obviously we are expected to give.
    I wonder if this is one reason that house churches are on the raise.
    My questions on this are:
    1. In the past it was the church that provided hospitals and education. Accommodation for the homeless, orphans etc this role has now taken on (mainly) by the state.
    2. Are you expected to give 10% to your home church and then more money to charities/other ministries?
    3. Money is needed for upkeep of the church - but 10% of the income of ALL your congregation is a LOT of money if you have healthy numbers.
    4. On a personal level, I'm a believer and my husband is not. Our income is shared and he supported me for years when I was too sick to work. Although I'm now working I aware that giving too much will become an issue between us.




    Quote Posted by CurEus (here)
    Funfact: In Germany, part of your income is taxed by the government and paid directly to the church...now that takes a tythe to a WHOLE new level!

    It "seems" to me that for a few millennia (or more) Churches often seem more like franchises than anything else. Expanding and carving up territories...globally, driving out competitors, but their model also includes unpaid "volunteers" for almost everything and they and the "clergy" are are tax exempt often taking vows of "poverty" while living in opulence and luxury.

    Sooooo generally no, I would not "tythe" but I may donate as I see fit and my means allow to particular areas I resonate with.

    I am also aware that their monstrous wealth and resources have produced some of our greatest artistic, scientific, and architecture...as well staggering good work...also a lot of suffering, misery.
    We lived in Switzerland - I think church tax was 1% of income
    Last edited by Clarity; 12th October 2021 at 06:34.
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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    In my view a tithe is a tribute, but in this case not to Caesar or the government but to the temple or church that we use regularly. I don't like how your potential church requires that you tithe so that you can be guided again if you want to return. I don't like the implication. The implication is that ONLY through their guidance can you return to God via their church and that guidance costs, a lot. I understand that this church wishes to expand, most do, but to pressure it's potential new recruits or fall aways as they term you, is not cool, IMHO.

    I would choose another church or none, if I were in your shoes. I don't mind giving voluntarily to a church, but I will not be forced. I would suggest you choose to pray in private, and give an offering only if and when you actually visit a church. Churches, graveyard's and library's are now the last few public places one can visit without an expectation of purchasing something. This goes some way towards blurring this last social norm. Also it's a heck of a lot of money, traditionally a tithe is ten percent of your income. Maybe that worked back in the day with lower overall taxes, or when you had a small homestead to provide a harvest instead of a money tithe, but today, with all the costs of living that we have to pay, including high taxes, it's a lot to ask for what amounts to a once or twice a week club membership.

    The best religions in my view evolve to understand their congregations needs and wants and aim to compliment their lives. The opposite, in my humble opinion, seek to control and manipulate often through guilt a very healthy income and growth for themselves, often at the great expense of their followers. A return to faith, of any description or denomination should be a wonderful thing, but like a pilgrims journey, you will encounter many false roads and prophets on your path, so to distract you from your correct way.

    In my view no one religion has all the answers but each religion can have a few. Best of luck with it......x...... N


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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    Charity begins at home...I would never join a church that required me to tithe, it should be left up to the person how much and if they chose to give, not all can afford the ten percent. I'd rather give money to a family in the community whom I knew needed it more. Tithing to me, can mean giving your time, money, transportation, medical help, etc. to those who are in need.

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    I have considered two churches and can I just say I love you all on a respectable level. I needed your advice and you did it so thank you from my heart. I know I don't often write deep messages and I tend to write about gaining advice. So I'm really greatful for your consideration of my posts. Thank you.
    Saying this. I have two churches. One is making me emotionally react in a negative way and I'm drawn to it for the fellowship is really nice but they insist that you are the lost soul and that they are right. The next church is always concerned about my experiences which he the paster has always been there for me and he only asks for a donation. When it's just a donation I want to give more, however when they insist on tenth I am more reluctant to giving. I'm being honest. I love and accept jesus christ and I've failed in many ways but I want to choose the right one and I have to pull away from the one with the tenth. As well they suck up to the governement and the paster is awake if that makes sense. So choice made.
    They do studies with you and expect you to feel like guilty and that you are the lost soul. The church is funnily enough very american based but has churches in the UK.
    They leave the tithe study till the very last but I used to be a member back in the 90's .
    They are dead swarmy as well. Like you are in the wrong again and they are doing the right thing. Every church besides them don't challenge you on chnaging that is what they tell me. Plus the studies are 2v1. One being just me.

    Thank you

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    Hey Angels1981,

    It sure sounds to me like these two churches are hell bent (pardon the pun ) on control, I would run and never look back from people looking to control me like that. They sound a lot more like cults than churches.

    Don’t you have any other options?

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    So, I am a church organist. I don't get tithed, and instead get a paycheck, and sometimes it is accompanied by an apology that it is so meager. The churches I play in are Roman Catholic and mainline Protestant (Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist). I have to say that all the churches I have seen are very lo-key about asking for money, at least during church services. The exception is when they are raising money for a charitable cause: a food pantry, a mission in a less developed nation, a school scholarship fund. They might also have a fund to pay for a church renovation, or paying off a loan, etc. which they are usually less aggressive about promoting. Most of them have gone out of their way not to be money grubbing. In the Catholic church there are a number of people who don't register with a parish or don't always go to the same church, and drop a dollar or two in the collection plate. And that seems to be okay with most people (a few parishioners might grumble if they know about it, but the ushers and money handlers know not to say anything.)

    What is happening in the church is that attendance and membership is down, endowments are being drained, and so churches are cutting expenses, some are closing or consolidating with other churches, or ceasing their charitable functions just to keep their own heads above water. And I've seen my own salary go down and my work load increased.

    I imagine life is somewhat different in the growing number of non-denominational Christian churches. Many of them seem to be doing quite well financially and their operating procedures may be somewhat different.

    The days of "give us your money or you are going to hell" are over. Most churches really do have to do things that inspire you to be generous with your money and with your time. If you get involved with a church, it is more likely that you will be pressured to get involved with participating in groups, leadership positions, etc. that forking over more money. Be prepared that you might be asked to help the ushers, pick up some elderly who can't drive to the service, assist in decorating the church for holidays, etc. They are more likely to ask what skills and time you can contribute than how deep your pockets are. And if you find the right church, you might just end up being happy to oblige.
    "If seeds in the black earth can turn into such beautiful roses, what might not the heart of man become in its long journey toward the stars?"
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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    Quote Posted by CurEus (here)
    Funfact: In Germany, part of your income is taxed by the government and paid directly to the church...now that takes a tythe to a WHOLE new level!
    This is exactly what happens in Russia too, around 40 million USD per year, in "public records", because of course we know they get a lot more than that, but through "private donations" and other means

    Quote It "seems" to me that for a few millennia (or more) Churches often seem more like franchises than anything else. Expanding and carving up territories...globally, driving out competitors, but their model also includes unpaid "volunteers" for almost everything and they and the "clergy" are are tax exempt often taking vows of "poverty" while living in opulence and luxury.

    Sooooo generally no, I would not "tythe" but I may donate as I see fit and my means allow to particular areas I resonate with.

    I am also aware that their monstrous wealth and resources have produced some of our greatest artistic, scientific, and architecture...as well staggering good work...also a lot of suffering, misery.
    St. Basil Cathedral judged you back (A slap in the face for Russian poverty, just like mostly everywhere else in this planet)


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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    In my opinion if you have to pay, or in any way feel that money has to exchange hands to be "part of it", then you are at the wrong place

    I rather go give money or buy food directly to people who need it, rather than channel it through someone else, so that it later gets diluted so they in the end may get 1% of what was given, which is what mostly happens all the time

    Go buy a pack of rice, one of potatoes, one or two kg of eggs, salt, water, and put on some extra olive oil and maybe beans, and you probably will feed an elder or two for a month,

    That will do more good than give money away blindly, because no person in need will truly get much out of it. I know in the US there are regulations like not being able to just stop by and give away sandwiches and so freely, but certainly there are ways to go around it, much like for everything else

    You can help one family, or you can most likely not truly help a 100 families, if you dilute the help so much that they end up receiving each a lemon at the end of the day

    It's a hard choice, i mean you have to believe in your church doing the right thing, and the best for people around it. But help, at the end of the day, and mostly from the point of view of the people who needs it the more, it's a matter of what truly gets to them, specially elder people who don't want to give away their dignity or accept help in ways of "well you should be grateful i brought you this, i did not even had to" as some people in churches act like :/

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    I get the impression that you already know what you want to do, based on gut reaction, but maybe you need an outside nudge. The fact that you've already highlighted your concerns (tithing, the ridiculous 'Fall Away' label for example) shows that you are going to walk away. There are so many truly loving churches out there, who would never demand this from you.
    This was a major reason I never joined my local Spiritualistic church, as they made a strong case for 'vetting' prospective candidates, and I would've had to jump through a few hoops to show myself 'worthy', just to satisfy their little club.
    Blow that for a game of soldiers

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    It's your money, do what you want with it. If I want to fund good works, I prefer to go directly to the source without it being filtered through a church or cult. I say cult because they are all the same. . .as long as you adhere to their dogma, they love you and your money. But the minute you question any of their actions or beliefs, you are ostracized and on the short list out the door.
    As a born again agnostic, I prefer to think for myself.
    Cheers!

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    Default Re: Church, tithing and membership

    The heart is what I usually listen to when considering these matters. After engaging with whatever it may be examine how it feels within yourself and in your heart center.. do you feel like something is filled or drained?

    We live in a universe where there are many dualities.. One of them is people will want to take from you. To me I think of this kind along the same lines as vampires. It is not at all unreasonable to expect that you'll find them in places where people seek refuge or understanding or healing etc. Clearly this is happening in many of our institutions be it temples/churches or educational campus' or medical industry to name only a few. Also not wanting to divert to scripture but very briefly want to mention this is my interpretation of the 'Awful Horror' mentioned in Daniel.

    I grew up in a very small town where the community were the church. Materials were donated, labour was shared and it was built up out of nothing but the spirit in the community. If some weren't able to donate money they gave in other ways at their discretion. Nothing was logged or accounted because it was inconsequential to the common goal of fellowship and an anchor for the community to elevate itself. That is the other side of the duality where engagement leaves the heart full and lively. Today the same church is still in use despite the community growing. It looks old and tattered but not for a lack of ability to build something big and much more shiny. It worked just as good now as it did in the beginning and that is only because it is backed by spirit from the people. Learn to and listen your heart because it has a very real intuitive potential to know where this authenticity exists and where it doesn't everywhere.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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