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Thread: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

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    Talking Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Do we know the make and model of the gun ?
    If it were a Colt SAA ( single action army revolver ) they have to be cocked (4 clicks) before discharging.
    The only exception really is when holstered- hence a "cowboy" load - only 5 bullets in the gun. The hammer then rests on an empty chamber when holstered. This was to ensure that whilst working that if by accident the hammer is accidentally hit it is not resting on a live round shooting the owner in the foot. Very hard for this type of weapon to misfire.

    Last edited by Did You See Them; 27th October 2021 at 08:47.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    • Alec Baldwin Faces Possible Criminal Charges After Shooting Death Of Crewmember:
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Who the Hell put a "LIVE ROUND" in a film prop ???

    MURDER springs to mind !

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Live statement now from Sheriffs Office

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    to those of us in film, especially those of us who are experienced with weapons, safety and safety in film won't waste too much time explaining the simplicity of how dangerous that entire production was. To us, and the large number of us leaving or who have left this local film union, the loss of another life was just waiting to happen.....and it easily could have been prevented.
    No kidding.

    A couple of inputs here, if I may:

    I've watched a number of interviews with attorneys and Hollywood safety professionals about this unfathomable debacle. But here's a video from a former Green Beret. He clearly wasn't all that familiar with it (he thought Halyna Hutchins must have been an actress), but everything else he got exactly 100% right. It's worth watching.


    And regarding responsibility, which seems to rest with quite a few people, a super-strong (and utterly obvious!) point was made here. But I've not heard it mentioned by anyone else.
    “If you’re capable of memorizing 120 pages of dialogue, you can memorize four lines of gun safety,” special effects and firearms expert Steve Wolf told The New York Post.
    “If that scene required Baldwin to put the gun to his head and pull the trigger, I’m sure he would have taken a look inside the gun.”
    Say no more. That's checkmate.

    I'm no gun veteran, but I can absolutely understand and appreciate the four lines of gun safety. They're a common-sense mantra. You don't mess with that. As the Green Beret said in the video above, you thoroughly check a gun that's been handed to you even if you're standing next to the guy who DID hand it to you and watched him check it himself moments earlier. You just do it again.

    At first I drifted past this story, but then caught up with it in detail once I started to hear more about the giant clusterf*ck that had somehow happened. It's about guns, for sure, but the higher-level issues are about safety protocols, knowledge, training, and following all that with zero compromise.

    The crossover for me is this. I'm an experienced mountaineer, and in all my mountaineering and rock climbing years, including doing some fairly serious things in very remote places, I've never had an accident happen to myself or anyone I was ever with. I'm proud of that, but I know why it is. It's just attention to detail, never getting complacent.

    In mountaineering, specially when climbing with ropes, the protocols are similar to those of gun handling. You check EVERYTHING. All the time, to the very best degree that you can. And you ask others you're with to check things too. If they have a concern, you listen very carefully.

    If a friend tells me a knot is tied or a karabiner (metal snaplink connector) is screwed tight shut, even if I've known and trusted that friend for years, I also take a good look myself if I'm in a position to do so. It becomes instinct. And there's no disrespect. I'd want him or her to do exactly the same.

    I wrote earlier that this incident was of Shakespearean magnitude with all its tragic ironies. What Shakespeare mastered was that every play he wrote was a seminar for the audience to learn from, and I truly think the same is happening here.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 27th October 2021 at 20:08.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    this post was being worked on at same time as Bill's ..it IS complementary

    i may post info later ... but i've reached my conclusion on Alec
    Last edited by iota; 27th October 2021 at 23:20. Reason: added note
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    to those of us in film, especially those of us who are experienced with weapons, safety and safety in film won't waste too much time explaining the simplicity of how dangerous that entire production was. To us, and the large number of us leaving or who have left this local film union, the loss of another life was just waiting to happen.....and it easily could have been prevented.
    No kidding.

    A couple of inputs here, if I may:

    I've watched a number of interviews with attorneys and Hollywood safety professionals about this unfathomable debacle. But here's a video from a former Green Beret. He clearly wasn't all that familiar with it (he thought Halyna Hutchins must have been an actress), but everything else he got exactly 100% right. It's worth watching.


    And regarding responsibility, which seems to rest with quite a few people, a super-strong (and utterly obvious!) point was made here. But I've not heard it mentioned by anyone else.
    “If you’re capable of memorizing 120 pages of dialogue, you can memorize four lines of gun safety,” special effects and firearms expert Steve Wolf told The New York Post.
    If that scene required Baldwin to put the gun to his head and pull the trigger, I’m sure he would have taken a look inside the gun.”
    Say no more. That's checkmate.
    Bill, you struck gold! and honestly this point alone IS the definitive point!

    the point of confusion is that BECAUSE of the multiple factors? ~ ALL of which holds great responsibility to whatever extent they do?

    then the tendency is once a culpirit is identified? to tunnel vission focus and absolve responsibility on everyone else

    THAT is what is causing the endless debates

    what i'm saying is:

    1. the fact is that irrespective of EVERY single factor named?

    “If you don’t point a gun at another human, it won’t kill them. "


    AND the REASON he did?

    is because AS a human being? he has copnsistently chosen to operate with reckless disregard AS a "norm" in ALL areas of his life

    we CAN point out that if he wasn't the type of person to operate as he does? being arrogant? carelessly and recklessly waving a gun around when not even filming? pointing it at another human being? ~ AND firing it?

    then he would NOT have made THAT kind of choice > NO ONE would be dead

    but he has a HUGE ego, and as i have pointed out earlier, i SERIOULSY doubt that there exists a SINGLE person in his circle of life, that calls him out on it AND continues to call him out on it out of desire to avoid confrontation

    and i can say that with just about 100% certainty because he hasn't stopped

    EGOS NEED constant AFFIRMATION

    so he would have been particularly susceptible and responsive to NEGATIVE feedback from the people in his life

    "hey dad? WTH? is it your aim to undermine and emotionally maim me in life?"

    "hey hubby? you know how you enjoy sex? well it isnt happening if you're going to talk to me like that!

    "hey actor, i love your work man. but the truth is you're a pain in the ass. and as a director, i NEED cooperation, so though you'd be perfect for the part? but i'm going to have to go with someone else"


    it is ALL the ALLOWANCE that ENABLED him to continue NOT just unimpeded. but their SILENCE actually allowed him to draw the ERRONEOUS assumption? ~ that he was fine! .. nothing wrong with the way he was developing as a human being

    here is just ONE example of the manner he CHOSE to operate in life:

    (culminating in a whole LIFETIME of unimpeded negative trajectory)




    and speculation isn't needed to know EXACTLY how HE would have "weighed in" on this



    sorry about language

    from MY perspective? what i've seen withOUT exception?

    God/Source/Divine Universe/Higher Self?

    has an objective for us LEARN a few things. none of us get an "exemption"

    and if the people around such an individual are FAILING to support in THAT "lesson"?

    AND the person lacks self awareness or desire to work on one's self?

    there comes a point when CHOICE is removed and now the point is going to be made

    and it WILL get the point across - but it won't be pretty

    Alec Baldwin:

    Quote I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone...

    Karma/Universe:


    Quote "now you know"
    hope that cleared things up for him ...

    and i feel for the man ... i've been there (learning)
    Last edited by iota; 28th October 2021 at 10:57. Reason: format
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    While standing in for my recertification on lifts, (booms, condors, scissor lifts), I saw we had a group of newbies in the class. I reminded them that if they aren't making mistakes, they are probably not working. This began a back and forth between us about safety, what we do know and learning what we don't....never stepping up in a work situation where we are unskilled and the potential for danger is high.

    I said this more because I know the habits of the union in this state to rush new members into trades that they are clueless about and have no training in, and the union is used to promoting and keeping members who follow the dogma of subservience, not safety and a drive to become skilled. Those things are happenstance in a politically weak union like the 480. It is rarely an apprentice to journeyman road that this union travels....and that, on so many levels is dangerous.

    The NM union has very ignorantly and often failed to teach safety to cross over members. I'm a quick study, but no one is that quick, nor adept enough to suddenly be thrust into a position of skill wherein their life and the lives of others are at stake.

    In fact, I have taken those classes I'd call cross over classes, seminars in the trades I don't do, in order to familiarize myself about safety issues, often learning that in order to be safe and competent in some of those other skills I would need much more training. I have learned enough in those classes to know to stay away, even as I may learn more in the future.

    I told my fellow lift trainees that it's not the mistakes we make, but the willingness to spot them before they happen and to correct the ones we make, without hesitation, and sharing the process with anyone they think may also make the same mistake.

    In armory there cannot be any mistakes. Zero. That's why constant, 100% adherence to a protocol is life saving.

    This is just the reason that I made a solid friend in another builder who, after seeing me quickly laying out and framing some long walls for an outdoor set we were building, came over and measured my walls, my blocks, my mavericks on the ends, etc.. He said "It's not that I don't trust your measurements. I can see you're skilled and you know what your doing. Still, I don't trust your measurements."

    He knew I'd get it immediately or I wouldn't get it at all and take him as some control freak. I got it. It shouldn't be that way, but I knew I had met another kindred spirit. I recheck my own measurements all of the time, just as I check the builds for all of the materials used that both break up during stunts and those things that need to be sturdy and prevent injury.

    The same goes for all types of safety, and especially with firearms, explosives, and all of the materials that need to break down, break away and spread out, as much as for those materials and builds that need to keep their structural strength, keeping support structures sound and safe for the actors and the film crew alike.

    And don't expect the national safety board, OSHA, to do any real investigations into the matter, or for them to levy any impactful monetary fine on the industry, the production, or the individual responsible parties. Look at what they, in collusion with weak unions, whorish government officials and their paymaster pharmaceutical masters, have done to worker safety and health in the last 22 months!

    The issue of a camera crew leaving just before the shooting is the long journey of crews not being protected by the union. It has only gotten worse in NM. Long periods between pay checks and none of the promised nearby housing that keeps a crew safe from falling asleep at the wheel after pulling 12, 14 and even 16 hour days, with the added danger of having to drive an hour or two each way to set. Those conditions are asking for accidents to happen, on and off set.

    Also, I saw a national news idiot, I mean "reporter", say that it looked safe on the site today, noting that all on set were wearing masks. WTF that has to do with on set safety only a schooled idiot could see.

    I see those masks as quite the opposite of safety and the health of a crew, since I still know how to read. I was refused a film because I insisted that my crew not be subjected to the unhealthy mandate of wearing masks or having some foreign substance put up their noses twice a week....for absolutely nothing but a proof of subservience, certainly not health or science in either case.

    My suggestion to that idiot reporter is that he read those regulations borne from all of the decades of OSHA safety data, combined with millions of worker experiences, warning about the excess use of masks and the resultant lack of oxygen, the hypoxic deficit that affects both health and safety, as well as the guaranteed upper respiratory illness acquired by rebreathing in mycotoxins and CO2.

    My good friends and I predicted this breakdown of the illusion of union giving a F''k, but that will have no worth if it is not rebuilt with integrity at it's core. I know, "it's new mexico". Still, no excuses.

    The whole thing is about spin, but the truth is easy to see when you stand still, look and listen.

    My almost 2 year long journey of never ending volunteering, paying my way in gratitude will soon end. I have even reached out to the real Christians, and yes I can accurately say that, to those who haven't followed tyranny and who would be happy to work with a coordinator, but I'm not waiting for them either.
    Last edited by Hym; 27th October 2021 at 21:55.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    And regarding responsibility, which seems to rest with quite a few people, a super-strong (and utterly obvious!) point was made here. But I've not heard it mentioned by anyone else.
    “If you’re capable of memorizing 120 pages of dialogue, you can memorize four lines of gun safety,” special effects and firearms expert Steve Wolf told The New York Post.
    “If that scene required Baldwin to put the gun to his head and pull the trigger, I’m sure he would have taken a look inside the gun.”
    Say no more. That's checkmate.

    I'm no gun veteran, but I can absolutely understand and appreciate the four lines of gun safety. They're a common-sense mantra. You don't mess with that. As the Green Beret said in the video above, you thoroughly check a gun that's been handed to you even if you're standing next to the guy who DID hand it to you and watched him check it himself moments earlier. You just do it again.

    At first I drifted past this story, but then caught up with it in detail once I started to hear more about the giant clusterf*ck that had somehow happened. It's about guns, for sure, but the higher-level issues are about safety protocols, knowledge, training, and following all that with zero compromise.
    I thoroughly agree with everything you say in that post Bill, and was waiting for you to weigh in with your own personal experience in basic safety protocols and situational awareness in mountaineering, as across all fields of risky endeavors they all originate from the same family tree.

    As mentioned earlier, I already will now always harbor disdain for Alec Baldwin's obvious and utter lack of regard for any and all basic gun safety protocols (in the same way as I feel about Noam Chomsky's recent despicable comments), but still I'm not comfortable with so much attention being piled onto someone who in the end is just an actor, and not so much on those whose job it was to actually be responsibility for gun safety on the set.

    That's where my sights are set anyway (pardon the pun with different spelling).

    I'm speculating that much of this may be not just because he's a "Hollyweird" actor, but much more so one whose politics and positions on gun rights in America are at complete odds with much of this forum. Including my own!

    But justice is supposed to be blind, and I just can't help but see that there are bigger fish to fry here than the low man on that particular totem pole. I think he's also being judged on gun safety rules on the street, as opposed to those on a movie set.

    This sorted story runs much deepen than an actor, and thanks to member Hym for keeping us so much better informed from the inside.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    I think he's also being judged on gun safety rules on the street, as opposed to those on a movie set.
    there's no such thing as situational safety rules.

    But I agree, this wasn't just Alec, though he certainly was a part of the equation.
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    I think he's also being judged on gun safety rules on the street, as opposed to those on a movie set.
    there's no such thing as situational safety rules.
    Yes, you are quite correct TargeT, thank you for pointing out something I neglected to clarify. As a conceal carry person I'm well aware that you are 100% correct!

    I only meant the difference to be in degree of culpability in case of an accident. On the street Alec Baldwin is f##ked. On a movie set? From my layman's perspective I see it as a completely different situation, regardless of his demonstrated complete and utter incompetence in something he should have already had down pat a long time ago.
    Last edited by Gracy; 27th October 2021 at 22:58.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    I think he's also being judged on gun safety rules on the street, as opposed to those on a movie set.
    there's no such thing as situational safety rules.
    Yes, you are quite correct TargeT, thank you for pointing out something I neglected to clarify. As a conceal carry person I'm well aware that you are 100% correct!

    I only meant the difference to be in degree of culpability in case of an accident. On the street Alec Baldwin is f##ked. On a movie set? From my layman's perspective I see it as a completely different situation, regardless of his demonstrated complete and utter incompetence in something he should have already had down pat a long time ago.
    the issue is NOT "degree of culpability"

    just as there are NO 'degrees of being dead"

    you are either responsible for the death of someone?

    or you are NOT

    and the person is either dead? or alive

    you are speaking of mitigating factors like his experience or lack thereof

    THE WHY of it? (he's arrogant? he's careless? he has a warped sense of humor? that' just how he rolls?)

    ANY of those reasons are just the scenery .. as in Italy instead of France fleshing out the HOW to paint a larger picture

    NONE of which in ANY way absolve or remove even ONE "degree of culpability"

    they may now ADD to that by factoring in his complete absence of responsibility for the choices he has made

    in lieu of the fact of the CHOICES that WERE available for him to make

    but CHOSE not to... NOW .. as way of answering

    WTH? or WHY????? enter in ALL the "becauses"

    because he was an ego maniacal arrogant individual, UNaccustomed to being held accountable for his choices?

    because he CHOSE to take someone's word for the condition of a lethal weapon, which MEANS - he CHOSE to be IRRESPONSIBLE

    being IRRESPONSIBLE for whatever reason? WAS a CHOICE he freely made

    being an ADULT, of sound mind, with FULL knowlege that what he held in his hand was no toy, but a weapon?

    and making the CHOICE to aim it and pull the trigger?

    RESULTED in the death of a young mother and her son will grow up without her

    explain to him "degree of culpability"

    because i'm pretty sure for her son? the question would boil down to:

    "Did he kill my mother or not?"


    Last edited by iota; 28th October 2021 at 17:51.
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    to make things just CRYSTAL clear?

    Alec Baldwin is the ONLY person who killed Halyna

    he is THE ONE and ONLY person who did that

    NO ONE else actually killed her

    OTHERS? may hold RESPONSIBILITY for THEIR choices that CONTRIBUTED to the CONDITION of

    the weapon that Alec Baldwin chose to point at Halyna, pull the trigger and kill her

    but NO ONE else actually killed her
    We should defend our way of life
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    so that any adversary
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by iota (here)
    the weapon that Alec Baldwin chose to point at Halyna, pull the trigger and kill her
    TBH, he pointed it at the camera, to practice a scene, she was standing there... (honestly... not quite sure why, but it's not her fault at all; what happened to all the "shielding" we were told about by witnesses??)....

    this was negligent homicide, but almost a "coalition" of negligence really... there is a very strict system in place that was ignored by multiple people..... that shouldn't be ignored either.
    Last edited by TargeT; 28th October 2021 at 00:11.
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by iota (here)
    the weapon that Alec Baldwin chose to point at Halyna, pull the trigger and kill her
    TBH, he pointed it at the camera, to practice a scene, she was standing there... (honestly... not quite sure why, but it's not her fault at all; what happened to all the "shielding" we were told about by witnesses??)....

    this was negligent homicide, but almost a "coalition" of negligence really... there is a very strict system in place that was ignored by multiple people..... that shouldn't be ignored either.

    "coalition of negligence"! cool phrase! and perfect description!

    • that coalition included Hannah Gutierrez and David Hulls

    • NEITHER were good choices for someone careful or responsible

    • His crew was upset enough to WALK OUT

    • CHOOSING to disregard the concerns of the crew was irresponsible

    • FAILURE to resolve their complaints even worse (created possibility of retaliation)

      Quote "There should have been an investigation into what happened," said the crew member. "There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn't happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush."

      A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires he sent a text message to the unit production manager. "We've now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe," according to a copy of the message reviewed by the Times."
    • AND at least ONE story has the weapons being left out while the whole crew left

    • ALL of this? WAS KNOWN to him and he CHOSE to disregard it

    • the crew had used the gun with live bullets for target practice

    • REAL bullets AND blanks were on the set


    Click image for larger version

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    so ... looks like there were many cooks in the kitchen

    EACH contributing an INGREDIENT to the recipe

    but they are NO more than INGREDIENTS in HIS Soup


    EACH person is 100% responsible for THEIR part as an "ingredient" to this recipe

    and ALL deserve to be held accountable for EVERY negligent choice

    INDISPUTABLY



    but
    NONE of this changes the fact that:

    Alec Baldwin is the ONE and ONLY person who killed Halyna Hutchins


    NO ONE else actually killed her






    but still? i feel for the man ... pretty harsh way to learn a lesson ..

    and i also have compassion because i think all of us have had OUR version of being faced with the reality of our choices in a way that could neither be denied nor ignored any longer

    i know i have ..

    i already sent some grace his way, the main one on my heart though, is the son

    Last edited by iota; 28th October 2021 at 10:38.
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    so that any adversary
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Some of my thoughts
    -she was targetted for a reason
    -this was planned for few years now, going by Baldwin eluding to shooting people on social media
    -removal of real guns from movie sets means further steps in gun control
    - Baldwins questionable social media posts combined with all the other excuses (switched armorer, low budget movie etc) will suffice in preventing further inquiry.
    - sophisticated mind control used on Baldwin to put out the questionable social media posts as well as doing the act. Hitting her in the kill zone in one shot. Then the control was lifted and he was left to the horror of the situation. He could be a victim in this.
    "Without the human request, nothing will happen."

    "This must never be forgotten, that the human has the power to prevail."

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    here is the info i was going to post earlier

    Quote Posted by Did You See Them (here)
    Do we know the make and model of the gun ?
    If it were a Colt SAA ( single action army revolver ) they have to be cocked (4 clicks) before discharging.

    The only exception really is when holstered- hence a "cowboy" load - only 5 bullets in the gun. The hammer then rests on an empty chamber when holstered. This was to ensure that whilst working that if by accident the hammer is accidentally hit it is not resting on a live round shooting the owner in the foot. Very hard for this type of weapon to misfire.


    this is the type of gun used:





    (The gun pictured above is a classic Colt pistol manufactured between 1873-92.
    Whereas the precise mannequin of the gun used is unknown, Rust is about within the 1880's)



    but here's the kicker (i wasl like dying to say "smoking gun"! )

    Gun that went off in Alec Baldwin’s palms and killed
    Halyna Hutchins ‘was used for goal observe



    ok BEFORE i cover the story?

    i just re-read that headline. they used very specific wording that painted a specific picture, one that 100% absolved Baldwin of responsibility ~ THAT, of course, is “Spin”

    "went off"

    implies ZERO culpability, as if the gun is mischievous and has a mind of its own. when in actuality he

    he was screwing around, I’ve read 2 reports he was waving it around before pointed it and fired.

    The gun? Did not shoot itself …

    North Macedonia reports:

    "The gun that killed the cinematographer on the set of Alec Baldwin’s Rust had been used for goal observe by crew members, sources linked to the western movie’s manufacturing stated.

    A number of sources related to the set of Rust informed TMZ that the identical Colt pistol that went off in Alec Baldwin’s palms, killing Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza, had been used recreationally by crew members.

    The sources declare that some crew members would go off for goal observe utilizing actual bullets, and a few consider a dwell spherical from these observe classes discovered its means onto the set.

    One other supply informed TMZ that dwell ammo and blanks had been being saved in the identical space on set, providing one other doable rationalization as to how a bullet was fired from Baldwin’s Colt.

    Alec Baldwin was wielding a classic Colt pistol when it by accident went off. It isn’t recognized who loaded the weapon and why it went off as a alternative crew was introduced within the day of the incident (The gun pictured above is a classic Colt pistol manufactured between 1873-92. Whereas the precise mannequin of the gun used is unknown, Rust is about within the Eighteen Eighties)"



    source: https://northmacedonia.it/2021/10/24...-goal-observe/

    A commenter Putting the pieces Together:

    1. - There were three "prop" guns laid out on a table on the set by armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed.
    2. - 1st Assistant Director Dave Halls picked up one of these guns and yelled "Cold gun on set!" before handing it to Alec Baldwin.
    3. - The cast and crew broke for lunch a short time thereafter. From what I gather, the weapon was left on set while everyone went off to get a bite to eat.
    4. - When the accident happened, the director, cinematographer, and actor were discussing the scene when he drew the weapon, asked: "Is this what you want?" before pulling the trigger.
    5. - The gun fired, hit the DP in the chest, and hit the director in the shoulder.


    another commenter wrote:

    Quote You don't just grab a gun start waving it around pointing it at people then pull the trigger at someone.

    Sht beyond stupid. I don't even think they were filming? Probably rehearsing or some sht. But again don't matter. Play stupid games win stupid prizes
    .

    and

    Quote He does raise a good point, that a gun should NEVER be pointed in any direction other than one in which it can be fired.

    And that applies whether it’s unloaded, safety on, loaded with blanks, disassembled or anything else.
    Because the fact is: the fact is:

    Quote If you don’t point a gun at another human, it won’t kill them.
    so pretty much ALL the "details"? all the "reasons" pretty much will only serve to explain

    WHY and HOW Alec Baldwin killed Halyma Hutchins

    NOT whether or not he was the one that killed her

    but, without a doubt? there were tons of "ingredients" in that soup, as T. said there was a "coalition" of negligence

    i'm pretty sure there are a LOT of details that will be "outed" as finger start pointing and people scurry to absolve themselves of the responsibility of their choices which appear to be negligent

    so there are tons of details to dig up as to HOW the conditions set up

    that led to a live bullet being in the gun Alec used to kill Halyma

    but i think i'll leave that to you guys to uncover them

    Last edited by iota; 28th October 2021 at 18:23.
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    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Tyy1907 (here)
    Some of my thoughts
    -she was targetted for a reason
    -this was planned for few years now, going by Baldwin eluding to shooting people on social media
    -removal of real guns from movie sets means further steps in gun control
    - Baldwins questionable social media posts combined with all the other excuses (switched armorer, low budget movie etc) will suffice in preventing further inquiry.
    - sophisticated mind control used on Baldwin to put out the questionable social media posts as well as doing the act. Hitting her in the kill zone in one shot. Then the control was lifted and he was left to the horror of the situation. He could be a victim in this.
    Nonsense.

    Here's what I bet happened. (Any takers?)
    • The armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, has told the police that she checked the three guns on the trolley before the break for lunch. She said they were all empty. (One was a plastic gun, anyway.)
    • Somehow, a live round found its way into the gun that the Assistant Director Dave Halls "grabbed" and gave to Baldwin — after the lunch break.
    • My strong guess is that the gun was used for playtime target practice during the lunch break. (Lunch itself, with Baldwin, Souza, Hutchins, and other senior members of the crew, may have been quite some distance away and well out of sight or earshot.)
    • So the real negligence may lie with one of more of those unnamed crew members. It'd bet the police are investigating that. And someone, somewhere, may be lying or covering up.
    • I'd be sure that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is (a) distraught and (b) telling the truth. An experienced armorer would have (a) locked up the guns over lunch and (b) rechecked them again after, as has to be routine. But she never did either of those. That's negligence, for sure, but not criminal negligence.
    I'm no lawyer, but it seems reasonable to suggest that if the producers (including Baldwin) knew that target practice with live rounds had been occurring several times during breaks, and no action was taken, then that's where much of the liability lies.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    I go with what your saying Bill .. but at the end of the day the ultimate responsibility lies with the person last to pickup/hold/use the gun and how well they check it.
    A Colt 45 SAA has to be loaded one bullet at a time and to check you need to empty the chambers one by one to see what's been loaded before loading again one at a time. Baldwin has NEVER checked that gun.
    He took a life needlessly.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Here's what I bet happened. (Any takers?)
    • The armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, has told the police that she checked the three guns on the trolley before the break for lunch. She said they were all empty. (One was a plastic gun, anyway.)
    • Somehow, a live round found its way into the gun that the Assistant Director Dave Halls "grabbed" and gave to Baldwin — after the lunch break.
    • My strong guess is that the gun was used for playtime target practice during the lunch break. (Lunch itself, with Baldwin, Souza, Hutchins, and other senior members of the crew, may have been quite some distance away and well out of sight or earshot.)
    • So the real negligence may lie with one of more of those unnamed crew members. It'd bet the police are investigating that. And someone, somewhere, may be lying or covering up.
    • I'd be sure that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is (a) distraught and (b) telling the truth. An experienced armorer would have (a) locked up the guns over lunch and (b) rechecked them again after, as has to be routine. But she never did either of those. That's negligence, for sure, but not criminal negligence.
    That's as plausible of a scenario as any. From the sound of it so far, things were run pretty fast and loose around there, so yeah, I can see something stupid like that happening quite easily under those circumstances.

    I'd be curious what Satori's opinion would be concerning negligence vs. criminal negligence. In the mean time though I went on a quick perusal of the legal difference between the two terms. Of course this would come down to New Mexico state law, and there wasn't much to be found there online, but this link below seemed to offer the clearest description of waters that can be very murky.

    Looks like it's actually "civil negligence" vs. "criminal negligence".
    https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/wh...between-99498/

    After reading all that, I'm sticking with criminal negligence in the case of the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. As the "expert", she should have known better on multiple fronts. She only had one job on that set, and the following are two of the examples listed as criminal negligence:

    Quote Leaving your child in your car unattended in hot weather.
    Quote a parent or guardian leaving a loaded firearm where a small child can get it.
    And a child did get to that gun...

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I'm no lawyer, but it seems reasonable to suggest that if the producers (including Baldwin) knew that target practice with live rounds had been occurring several times during breaks, and no action was taken, then that's where much of the liability lies.
    I still see it that the armorer is ultimately responsible if that were the case, those guns were her baby to protect. But yes, if this was indeed happening, here's how I would rank them from most responsible, to least responsible:

    1) The armorer

    2) The producers

    3) The actor

    All three could be charged so far as I'm concerned

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