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Thread: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    Here's what I bet happened. (Any takers?)

    [ ..... ]
    Looks like I was wrong. It's a mystery close to the core of all this. This is from numerous websites. (Here's just one)
    At 24, Gutierrez Reed had little experience working as an armorer. She told detectives that on the morning of the shooting, she checked the dummy bullets — bullets that appear real, save for a small hole in the side of the casing that identifies them as inoperable — to ensure none were “hot,” according to a search warrant affidavit made public Wednesday.
    When the crew broke for lunch, the guns used for filming were locked in a safe inside a large white truck where props were kept, Gutierrez Reed said. The ammunition, however, was left unsecured on a cart. There was additional ammo inside the prop truck.
    After lunch, the film’s prop master, Sarah Zachry, removed the guns from the safe and handed them to Gutierrez Reed, Gutierrez Reed told investigators.
    According to a search warrant affidavit released last Friday, Gutierrez Reed set three guns on a cart outside the church, and assistant director Dave Halls took one from the cart and handed it to Baldwin. The document released Wednesday said the armorer sometimes handed the gun to Baldwin, and sometimes to Halls.
    Gutierrez Reed declined to comment when contacted by The Associated Press on Wednesday. She wrote in a text message Monday that she was trying to find a lawyer.
    My personal comment. I feel sorry for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. She's a naive sweetie-pie who did her best, is clearly a nice person, and was in over her young head. I do hope she finds a good lawyer. While she accepted the job (as any Hollywood debutante would), she should maybe never have been offered it. ('Rust', and/or Baldwin, cost-and-corner-cutting again.)

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    It's getting juicy now because it appears Halyna was doing a documentary on the predator child trafficking going on among stars and some say this was no accident that Alec was one of the names on the list that would come out in the film, others are saying he was leveraged to, 'remove her' and this was how it was planned for plausible deniability! There is that word again! I just read another article saying that they do not know Alec's current wearabouts when he was told not to leave the area! Not sure how true but right after an article popped as I was typing apparently showing Alec with his family in NY but I don't know if it is old or if he took off to there. Getting quite interesting because some of the people close to Halyna are convinced she was murdered to stop the film on sex predators in Hollywood!
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    So the real negligence may lie with one of more of those unnamed crew members. It'd bet the police are investigating that. And someone, somewhere, may be lying or covering up

    I'd be sure that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is (a) distraught and (b) telling the truth. An experienced armorer would have (a) locked up the guns over lunch and (b) rechecked them again after, as has to be routine. But she never did either of those. That's negligence, for sure, but not criminal negligence.
    If it's proven this really was an accident, one brought about by pure (and quite stunning) negligence, I believe it should be classified as criminal negligence, and very much so. She failed in her duty of care - her chief responsibility. It resulted in loss of life. Someone needs to be accountable for that.

    Even if multiple people handled that gun by using it for target practice during lunch hour, the onus must still fall on her. She's the armourer, the weapons-master. It's surely her responsibility to ensure all guns in her custody are not misused, are always accounted for and always made safe. etc. Then again I'm no lawyer either, and no industry expert. Just speaking from what I think is basic common sense.

    That a real gun, containing live ammunition, found its way onto a trolley meant for props still somewhat stretches the "negligence" defence. I highly doubt Baldwin knowingly shot Hutchins, that makes no sense. But for me the possibility remains (however unlikely) that Baldwin may have been set up here.
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Here's what I bet happened. (Any takers?)
    • The armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, has told the police that she checked the three guns on the trolley before the break for lunch. She said they were all empty. (One was a plastic gun, anyway.)
    • Somehow, a live round found its way into the gun that the Assistant Director Dave Halls "grabbed" and gave to Baldwin — after the lunch break.
    • My strong guess is that the gun was used for playtime target practice during the lunch break. (Lunch itself, with Baldwin, Souza, Hutchins, and other senior members of the crew, may have been quite some distance away and well out of sight or earshot.)
    • So the real negligence may lie with one of more of those unnamed crew members. It'd bet the police are investigating that. And someone, somewhere, may be lying or covering up.
    • I'd be sure that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is (a) distraught and (b) telling the truth. An experienced armorer would have (a) locked up the guns over lunch and (b) rechecked them again after, as has to be routine. But she never did either of those. That's negligence, for sure, but not criminal negligence.
    That's as plausible of a scenario as any. From the sound of it so far, things were run pretty fast and loose around there, so yeah, I can see something stupid like that happening quite easily under those circumstances.

    I'd be curious what Satori's opinion would be concerning negligence vs. criminal negligence. In the mean time though I went on a quick perusal of the legal difference between the two terms. Of course this would come down to New Mexico state law, and there wasn't much to be found there online, but this link below seemed to offer the clearest description of waters that can be very murky.

    Looks like it's actually "civil negligence" vs. "criminal negligence".
    https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/wh...between-99498/

    After reading all that, I'm sticking with criminal negligence in the case of the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. As the "expert", she should have known better on multiple fronts. She only had one job on that set, and the following are two of the examples listed as criminal negligence:

    Quote Leaving your child in your car unattended in hot weather.
    Quote a parent or guardian leaving a loaded firearm where a small child can get it.
    And a child did get to that gun...

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I'm no lawyer, but it seems reasonable to suggest that if the producers (including Baldwin) knew that target practice with live rounds had been occurring several times during breaks, and no action was taken, then that's where much of the liability lies.
    I still see it that the armorer is ultimately responsible if that were the case, those guns were her baby to protect. But yes, if this was indeed happening, here's how I would rank them from most responsible, to least responsible:

    1) The armorer

    2) The producers

    3) The actor

    All three could be charged so far as I'm concerned
    The definitions and examples set forth in the link Gracy provided is a good general presentation of the distinction between civil and criminal negligence. The law in this area is fairly uniform in every state.

    As I mentioned before in earlier posts on this thread, criminal charges, or not, will come down to the application of the facts, as determined by the law enforcement investigators. These facts are presented to the prosecutor, who ultimately determines whether, in her judgment, a crime was committed and whether there is enough evidence to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. The DA has a fair amount of discretion to prosecute or not and to decide who to prosecute or not. However, due to the high profile nature of this case, the DA is undoubtedly getting pressure from many quarters which are affecting her discretion and decision-making.

    Civil liability for negligence is a given here. No need to discuss that further. Damages will be paid to her estate and survivors. (As well as to the man who was injured.) The question is whether there is criminal responsibility and if so, who is criminally liable... . There may be more than one person.

    My guess is the DA will select a “target”, which is the term they use and not intended to be disrespectful, and present the findings to a grand jury and seek an indictment. As they say, a DA can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. So that’s a pretty low bar to jump over to get an indictment. The other option is a criminal complaint which is presented to a judge. I doubt the DA will go that route.

    I wonder what type of criminal charges, if any, the DA is considering. Of potential interest to me is the felony murder rule. Essentially, under that rule if a person dies while a felony is being committed, the felon(s) can be charged with murder regardless of intent and regardless of the actual mechanism causing the death. I’m not suggesting that rule applies under the facts, but I’ve got my eye on that possibility.

    I think at the end of the day what may stick, if there are any criminal charges, is involuntary manslaughter.

    For what it’s worth.
    Last edited by Satori; 28th October 2021 at 21:52.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    So the real negligence may lie with one of more of those unnamed crew members. It'd bet the police are investigating that. And someone, somewhere, may be lying or covering up

    I'd be sure that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is (a) distraught and (b) telling the truth. An experienced armorer would have (a) locked up the guns over lunch and (b) rechecked them again after, as has to be routine. But she never did either of those. That's negligence, for sure, but not criminal negligence.
    If it's proven this really was an accident, one brought about by pure (and quite stunning) negligence, I believe it should be classified as criminal negligence, and very much so. She failed in her duty of care - her chief responsibility. It resulted in loss of life. Someone needs to be accountable for that.

    Even if multiple people handled that gun by using it for target practice during lunch hour, the onus must still fall on her. She's the armourer, the weapons-master. It's surely her responsibility to ensure all guns in her custody are not misused, are always accounted for and always made safe. etc. Then again I'm no lawyer either, and no industry expert. Just speaking from what I think is basic common sense.

    That a real gun, containing live ammunition, found its way onto a trolley meant for props still somewhat stretches the "negligence" defence. I highly doubt Baldwin knowingly shot Hutchins, that makes no sense. But for me the possibility remains (however unlikely) that Baldwin may have been set up here.
    Gun safety starts with hand holding the weapon! Baldwin's father was a riflery instructor so he certainly knows enough about safety to have been brought up on proper handling! He being an exec in the show is also responsible for being one of the 'safety checkers' himself and being that it was his finger pulling the trigger and mishandling the gun pointing it at people he shares responsiblity here! If it is found that he was indeed being investigated for his bad deviant behavior in his private life he also has motive so it's too early to know. The new article on Trump is quite remarkable if true. Trump has hired his own investigators to look into this because of the pedophile film Halyna was working on. Now Baldwin has been spotted with family in New England! Looks like he is on the move.

    https://nypost.com/2021/10/28/alec-b...w-england-town

    Trump opens investigation of his own
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    It's getting juicy now because it appears Halyna was doing a documentary on the predator child trafficking going on among stars and some say this was no accident that Alec was one of the names on the list that would come out in the film, others are saying he was leveraged to, 'remove her' and this was how it was planned for plausible deniability! There is that word again! I just read another article saying that they do not know Alec's current wearabouts when he was told not to leave the area! Not sure how true but right after an article popped as I was typing apparently showing Alec with his family in NY but I don't know if it is old or if he took off to there. Getting quite interesting because some of the people close to Halyna are convinced she was murdered to stop the film on sex predators in Hollywood!
    If she was working on a film like this then it's a no brainer in my opinion.
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    The new article on Trump is quite remarkable if true. Trump has hired his own investigators to look into this because of the pedophile film Halyna was working on.
    Definitely Baldwin is in part culpable, but I don't know how you can prove intent. What's he doing in Vermont? Is it normal that a 'suspect' is allowed to leave the state? I didn't think it was.

    I have 'heard' since day one the rumour that Halyna was soon to work on a paedophile documentary, but have yet to see definitive evidence of it. It's just a rumour as far as I'm aware, but would happily be corrected. If she was a target, why her though, a cinematographer? Why not the producer, the director, the whistleblowers involved, or those funding the project etc?
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    I mentioned earlier that I'm barely entitled to comment on gun safety issues (and protocols) on movie sets, but I can totally understand all the safety logic from my own experience as a mountaineer.

    So here's a thought experiment.

    I'm on a film crew as a mountaineering safety specialist, and the lead actor is Tom Cruise.

    Tom Cruise is the kind of guy who'd always want to do a stunt himself. This scene involves rock climbing, and so I'm the guy who provides, fastens and secures his climbing harness, ties the climbing rope into it (which needs to be done with a particular knot that all climbers know), and maybe there are other safety issues such as screwing closed the karabiners (metal connecting snaplinks) and such things like that.

    But here's the rider. Tom Cruise is an experienced climber himself. He's perfectly capable of securing his own harness and tying his own knots. But the protocol on set is that I do it for him.

    If I screw up, and Tom Cruise has an accident, is it my sole liability? It'd be argued not — as Tom Cruise had all the personal experience to check everything I was doing, which was right next to him. And it was in his interests to do so.

    If I was doing the same thing for someone who'd never worn a climbing harness before, and had no clue how to tie climbing knots, then it'd ALL be on me. It's an entirely different situation.

    So that's the analogy. With Alec Baldwin, sure he was handed, and accepted, the 'cold gun' which wasn't. But he's been in the movie industry for decades, including on MANY productions in which he handled weapons as an actor. Even if he's not in the NRA, he's hardly some naive, green gun novice.

    So, like Tom Cruise in a climbing scene, Baldwin knows what the heck he's doing, or should be doing, in a gun scene. But he never checked a thing.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    The new article on Trump is quite remarkable if true. Trump has hired his own investigators to look into this because of the pedophile film Halyna was working on.
    Definitely Baldwin is in part culpable, but I don't know how you can prove intent. What's he doing in Vermont? Is it normal that a 'suspect' is allowed to leave the state? I didn't think it was.

    I have 'heard' since day one the rumour that Halyna was soon to work on a paedophile documentary, but have yet to see definitive evidence of it. It's just a rumour as far as I'm aware, but would happily be corrected. If she was a target, why her though, a cinematographer? Why not the producer, the director, the whistleblowers involved, or those funding the project etc?
    Intent is only relevant if intent, or scienter in legal terms, is an element of the crime. For example, premediated first degree murder does require intent, intent to kill. Planning, motive, opportunity..., is evidence of such intent.

    But other types of homicide (which in the strictest sense is the killing of a human being by another human being--regardless of intent), such as manslaughter, do not require intent. The act itself, actus reus (the what), and not intent (the why), is sufficient in some cases for criminal liability.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    sorry haven't read ALL comments yet,. but just a quick point:

    you know ... none of this confusion would exist in the absence of "spin"

    which then translates into HOW it will be "handled"

    aside from "spin"? it is VERY cut and dry

    if a man is driving drunk? he kills a child, a man, a woman

    he IS GUILTY of vehicular manslaughter

    no one is even TRYING to "spin" it ANY other way

    if someone KILLS anyone? even if they ARE drunk? (and didn't mean to)

    since the person is dead? they are guilty of having killed someone

    WHY? HOW? or REASONS? don't change this

    sure there are details to flesh out how live bullets ended up being in the gun he used to point

    where a NOT invisible woman was standing and kill her?

    but the fact is he killed her > she is no longer alive

    and NONE of the details that will be "discovered"?

    will have ANYONE else holding him down, raising his arm, FORCING him to point and shoot

    am i right?





    ps ... here it is right here

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    Intent is only relevant if intent, or scienter in legal terms, is an element of the crime. For example, premeditated first degree murder does require intent, intent to kill. Planning, motive, opportunity..., is evidence of such intent.

    But other types of homicide

    (which in the strictest sense is the killing of a human being by another human being--regardless of intent),

    such as manslaughter, do not require intent. The act itself, actus reus (the what), and not intent (the why), is sufficient in some cases for criminal liability.
    yes ... this was what i was thinking!

    ty Satori
    Last edited by iota; 30th October 2021 at 19:12. Reason: moved video
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    filler post for story i might share on .. umm .. this issue


    so ....

    my guilty pleasure is watching really short vids from this channel while i eat

    this one was pretty interesting

    short clip on ALec Baldwin





    @2:30 it talks about his break with brother Stephen over Trump! didn't know that, impressive
    Last edited by iota; 29th October 2021 at 06:41.
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    I dont think this is an accident. also works well as a diversion. Someone please look somewhere. There is a good chance that something important that needs cover is at play. I'm guessing.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    If I screw up, and Tom Cruise has an accident, is it my sole liability? It'd be argued not — as Tom Cruise had all the personal experience to check everything I was doing, which was right next to him. And it was in his interests to do so.
    The scenario reminds me of an incident on a dry ski-slope years ago. One kid in the group told the instructor he didn't need to be shown what to do, he already knew how to ski as he'd been to Switzerland. Then he had an accident.

    The instructor was at fault here not the kid – in my opinion. All the kids were placed under the instructor's care, and he was negligent in providing it. The buck stops with him. In this instance it was a minor, and you could reasonably argue that yes, obviously the instructor is to blame - they're just kids! I'm just saying the premise is the same: professional expertise always outweighs amateur experience (kids or otherwise).

    This shooting "accident" occurred – I assume – under expert supervision: Gutierrez-Reed was in charge of the weapons. Absolutely Baldwin is culpable for firing a live round and killing someone. He should never have been so stupid and thoughtless. But the armourer was totally lax by allowing that to happen, even to potentially happen, on HER watch. What other reason is she there for?! She must have the qualifications, the professional credentials, and probably certificates that landed her that position and which justify that position in the first place. Surely those credentials surpass and outweigh the 'say so' of an actor [under her supervision] and the observational experience he claims to have.

    If I was in charge of mountaineering safety on a movie set and Tom Cruise said to me, "I'm capable of ensuring my own safety", I would demand a waiver be signed releasing me of any legal obligation whatsoever if something went wrong, and then walk off set. And even then, if said waiver exonerated me from an accident later, I imagine I would bear a tremendous guilt, especially if loss of life resulted. I'd probably want to go back in time and say "No Tom, I don't care how good you are, or what you think you know, this is my job and I AM in charge – you will do what I say." (or maybe it's just me who has control/trust issues!).
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    For anyone that has 22 minutes to spare, "Nuance Bro" takes an objective look at the whole matter. He's a very experienced gun owner himself, so that helps.

    Highly recommended:


    As an aside:

    The reason for the name "Nuance Bro", is that he prides himself in looking at and questioning things from all possible angles in an objective matter. He likes to go to protests and practice this. For instance he's personally very pro gun, but if he goes say, to an NRA rally, he'll probe how thoroughly people holding signs have actually thought through what their sign is saying, by asking tough questions from an anti gun position. And vice versa if he goes to an anti gun rally, he'll probe sign holders in the same manner from a pro gun perspective, how thoroughly have they really thought through what they're saying.

    Like they teach in debate class, learn to argue both sides of any given subject.

    That's why I like his channel. He's educated himself on the pros, the cons, and nuances of many issues, yet has no agenda save for educational purposes.

    He demonstrates it's disturbingly very common that people on either side of an issue, actually know very little about what they're sign is saying. A lot of people tend to hear a slogan that they're naturally inclined to agree with, it sounds good and they'll proudly put it on their sign and wave it around, but upon questioning they quickly demonstrate how little they know about it beyond slogans and sound bites...

  28. Link to Post #95
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    the WAY i ended up on a conspiracy site, WAS by a STRONG desire for TRUTH .. .whether it was pretty or not? in agreement or at odds with what i had thought? i i HATE lies, I HATE to be manipulated or deceived

    i once made it a part of my DAILY prayer for almost TWO years, 'i just want to know the TRUTH, please don't let me deceived any longer", having been deceived in my earlier stages of faith

    so now i simply have a VERY close and intimate relationship with my Source

    and a sign of the "enemy" being: "father of lies"

    and in his presence? there is always confusion ... things "muddied" and unsettled ..

    so TRUTH WAS and will ALWAYS be of UTMOST importance and a deal breaker for me

    operating from clarity? i can spot introduction of confusion immediately

    i'll listen to anything, but you can be sure at the end? i'll arrive at a DEFINITE conclusion

    because things CANNOT be BOTH > wet AND dry

    black AND white

    DEAD and ALIVE

    and i either killed someone? or i didn't

    whatever the reasons behind it might be ....

    so the PURPOSE of asking questions on BOTH sides was to arrive AT A DEFINITIVE answer

    i'll listen to anything, but will always ASK WHY? WHY is this being presented to me?

    WHAT is the intention behind bringing it up?

    you can be sure at the end? i'll arrive at a DEFINITE conclusion

    i LEFT msm BECAUSE they WERE intending to manipulate me, steer me, confuse me

    i didn't land here to embrace more of the same


    Last edited by iota; 30th October 2021 at 20:23. Reason: format
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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  30. Link to Post #96
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by iota (here)
    i'll listen to anything, but you can be sure at the end? i'll arrive at a DEFINITE conclusion

    because things CANNOT be BOTH > wet AND dry

    black AND white

    DEAD and ALIVE

    and i either killed someone? or i didn't

    whatever the reasons behind it might be ....
    Well, to each their own, but I'm glad juries are instructed otherwise.

    What if I accidentally run someone over and kill them, but it can be shown my brake lines had been cut just prior to them walking out in front of my car? It's possible to kill someone, yet not be a killer.

    Is this demonstrating much needed nuance?

    Asking pertinent questions?

    Or muddying the waters?

    So back to topic. Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone, true enough, but that doesn't automatically make him a killer.

  31. Link to Post #97
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)

    Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone, true enough, but that doesn't automatically make him a killer..
    is that a joke? or INTENTIONAL confabulation?

    BY DEFINITION > someone who KILLS someone IS a killer

    which you KNOW

    and

    Juries are MOST definitely instructed to discover truth and stick to facts

    you are INTENTIONALLY interposing INTENT and the "Conditions" for the ACT itself

    WHAT is YOUR intent of that? may i ask?

    focusing on the CONDITIONS existing when he took a lethal weapon and pointed it and pulled the trigger resulting in death

    no condition changes the fact that if he did not pull the trigger of a lethal weapon?

    Halyma Hutchins would be alive ...as in NOT dead

    and as an adult? ,he is EXPECTED to exercise caution in the handling of a lethal weapon

    this is stated EXPLICITLY in law and DOES take into account > Reckless disregard

    AND the consequences of THAT recklessness must ALSO be taken into consideration

    i'd be upset enough if he had killed a dog ... but it was a little boy's mother!!

    to take YOUR example?

    i can spill water on the floor while i'm cleaning ..

    but if someone comes along and gives a push to another and they fall?

    yea .. i got the floor wet

    the pusher CAUSED the fall

    i might be responsible for the CONDITIONS

    within which the perpetrator committed the ACTUAL act

    but the ACTUAL act was committed by the perpetrator alone ~ ALL BY himself

    or as you FINALLY admit:

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)

    Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone, true enough
    PS

    not "someone" ...

    her name was Halyma Hutchins, a young mother and wife
    Last edited by iota; 30th October 2021 at 21:29. Reason: credited quote and ps
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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  33. Link to Post #98
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    I don't believe any of this.

    It's all too 'on the nose'.

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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)
    I don't believe any of this.

    It's all too 'on the nose'.
    I'm curious... what's the "any of this" that you don't believe?

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  36. Link to Post #100
    Canada Avalon Member Tyy1907's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Kills 1 on Set of 'Rust'

    Quote Posted by iota (here)
    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)

    Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone, true enough, but that doesn't automatically make him a killer.
    is that a joke? or INTENTIONAL confabulation?

    BY DEFINITION > someone who KILLS someone IS a killer

    which you KNOW

    and

    Juries are MOST definitely instructed to discover truth and stick to facts

    you are INTENTIONALLY interposing INTENT with the actual act

    WHAT is YOUR intent of that? may i ask?

    to take YOUR example?

    i can spill water on the floor while i'm cleaning ..

    but if someone comes along and gives a push to another and they fall?

    yea .. i got the floor wet

    the pusher CAUSED the fall

    i might be responsible for the CONDITIONS

    within which the perpetrator committed the ACTUAL act

    but the ACTUAL act was committed by the perpetrator alone ~ ALL BY himself

    or as you FINALLY admit:

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)

    Alec Baldwin shot and killed someone, true enough
    PS

    not "someone" ...

    her name was Halyma Hutchins, a young mother and wife
    I agree with what you both are saying.

    No matter how you slice it he killed Halyna Hutchins. However did he plan and act on a plan to kill her? Or were other players involved?

    In terms of karma they would all have a connection to her murder. Whoever planned it (if that's the case) would have a large karmic debt.

    On the flip side if it was a number of negligent acts that resulted in her death - with no intent to kill, the karma would be dispersed on all negligent players.

    No one can con their way out of karma. It's described as the great leveller. If your actions or lack of actions caused love to be taken away, you will have to put love back in some way. Through sacrifice of some kind or acts of loving kindness etc.
    Last edited by Tyy1907; 30th October 2021 at 20:41.
    "Without the human request, nothing will happen."

    "This must never be forgotten, that the human has the power to prevail."

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