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Thread: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

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    United States Avalon Member ThePythonicCow's Avatar
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    Default Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    .
    It seems that the Elite Evil Bastards are on a long march to populate the earth with themselves, plus enough mostly interchangeable enslaved humans and robotic devices to get done the mundane tasks that the elite want done.

    This plan includes building out the Internet and developing sufficient computational, surveillance and control capability to track and control all their slaves and robots on (and off) the planet.

    Since there are "too many" humans alive now, perhaps in part as a result of the elites building up human production capacity over the last century in order to create all this infrastructure and technology, therefore most of us need to die, or at least cease having any more children.

    As I described in this other thread, earlier today, the world's monetary system has changed in recent times, from one that was mostly based on hard currencies, such as gold and silver, with limited extension of credit, such as with 90 day Bills of Trade, to our current system that is a deeply inverted pyramid scheme leveraging many layers of financial shenanigans on top of debt paper that uses real labor and property as collateral.

    So ... what does this have to do with cryptocurrency?

    Well, it seems to me that the banks, regulators and other main stream financial institutions are in a process much like what I witnessed over the last three decades from Microsoft.

    This process is called Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish.

    The Banksters are now embracing and extending cryptocurrencies, and soon enough will start extinguishing what they can't make use of, on their own terms.

    The Banksters intend for cryptocurrencies to fit within their system, providing far more efficient and pervasive means to surveil and control all the monetary activity of their slaves (us), across the planet.

    Here is how The Free Dictionary by Farlex defines the phrase "Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish":
    embrace, extend, and extinguish
    Also found in: Wikipedia.
    A business strategy of implementing a public standard or developing software compatible with it, adding features not supported by the public standard, then marginalizing competition that does not (or cannot) support such proprietary additions. Popularized during the United States v. Microsoft Corp. antitrust trial as a phrase used internally by Microsoft regarding its own business philosophy.

    The global tech giant has seemingly taken "embrace, extend, and extinguish" as its business motto in recent years, sucking up all sorts of various web-based technologies over the years and mutating them into proprietary forms that no one else can hope to compete with
    .
    Many of us who have been involved in various software wars of the last few decades are quite familiar with this tactic, and can sense it coming a mile away.

    The Banksters and other such Money Masters have built up, especially since the late 1800's, a powerful, complex, monetary system that layers financial complexity upon financial complexity, several layers deep, upon a foundation of money that is lent into existence, in exchange for the I.O.U.'s (mortgages, loan documents, credit card agreements, corporate and government bonds, ...) that are the raw material from which these layers of financial complexity are formed. I spelled out in more detail some of the financial instruments and machinations used to construct this powerful system in my other recent thread: How to turn ten thousand dollars into ten billion dollars, by less than honest means

    It is essential, in the view of the Banksters, that they integrate the Web into their monetary system, so that all transactions, from a child's allowance or a tip for the waitress at the lunch counter, to the affairs of the world's nations, be conducted in near real time, using smart contracts that automatically determine the routine details of each transaction, over distributed ledgers such as the blockchain, that no individual corporation or government can control.

    This would replace the current system, in which each major player (bank, government, etc) has their own set of accounting books, running on their own computers, communicating using simulations of arcane protocols. This current system is too slow, too fragmented, and incapable of providing the "security" that the Banksters seek. By "security" I mean the ability to monitor and control all activity, all the time, in real time, while keeping anyone else from stepping outside the lines "they" establish, even in the slightest.

    Sometime in the 1980's, John Gage coined the phrase: “The Network is the Computer.” That phrase would become the tagline of Sun Microsystems for decades.

    Now, both Banksters and freedom loving crypto fanactics agree that our monetary systems need to move from the various isolated and independent main frame computers at each major business and government, to networked algorithms running shared and distributed sets of accounting ledgers, such as "blockchains", across many such computers, according to commonly agreed upon rules.

    Such distributed systems are now being developed. They provide accounting books and running across multiple independent computers spread around the world, such that no one or few of these computers can determine the outcome of each update to the accounting books. I am a peer reviewed, published specialist in other parallel, distributed, computing algorithms, and I have spent a modest amount of time reading and studying the algorithms used by some of the current major cryptocurrencies. The algorithms are real, solid, and elegant. Some of them have even been mathematically proven to have the intended correctness properties.

    These systems have been under very active development for about the last decade now, starting with Satoshi Nakamoto's seminal 2008 paper Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. This is the first major project for many of the young whipper snappers working on cryptocurrencies, and some of them have gotten quite rich, worth millions or even billions of dollars. They are mostly freedom loving coders, wanting to built a system that achieves the dream Satoshi set forth in the very first sentence of his paper:
    A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.
    However ... the Banksters, central banks, and regulators are now getting involved:
    • Moving money between the crypto-world and the "real" main stream money world is difficult and subject to taxation and KYC ("Know Your Customer") banking regulations that identify and track each participant.
    • The U.S. Securities and Exchange commision has assumed the authority to decide what sort of securities, stock issuances, futures, and other such financial instruments are allowed in the crypto space.
    • Cryptocurrency exchanges that support moving between different crypto currencies and between crypto and "main stream" central bank issued currencies are subject to an entangling web of conflicting regulations, that differ nation by nation and in the U.S. even state by state.
    • "Stable coins" (cryptocurrencies that are setup to maintain a stable value in some specified central bank currency such as the US Dollar) are subjected to disparaging remarks by the regulators and risk "going away" at some time.
    • Some efforts at cryptocurrencies, such as Facebook's Libra, are virtually hounded out of existence by the bankers and regulators, before they really even get started.
    • Bitcoin and the other major cryptocurrencies that rely on many computers, world-wide, simultaneously trying to find solutions to complex random number algorithms, use a lot of energy, and (to the dismay of gamers) a lot of computer graphics cards. These algorithms are deliberately inefficient, slowing transaction speeds, raising transaction costs, and opening them up to criticism from the Climate Change alarmists.
    • There are alternative solutions to these distributed ledger problems that are highly specialized to such distributed consensus problems. But the best of these, Hedera's Hashgraph, is locked behind patents and proprietary technology, only available to whatever existing major financial institutions control it.
    Quote The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it’s everywhere. The world’s most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money. In fact, the history of the recent financial crisis, which doubles as a history of the rapid decline and fall of the suddenly swindled dry American empire, reads like a Who’s Who of Goldman Sachs graduates.
    -- Matt Taibbi wrote in Rolling Stone of Jul 13, 2009

    Either the Vampire Squid retains control, using closed source, patented, licensed, proprietary "distributed ledger" technology to move our monetary systems to the Web, or the upstart freedom loving geeks gain control, with open source, visible to all, technology that ultimately humanity controls, and that achieves Satoshi Nakamoto's dream of a system that allows direct money transfer, person to person, without having to pass through any financial institution.

    The vampire squid must die.

    My (sometimes rather dormant) blog: theMooster.net

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Very well written with loads of good info! Thx for that.

    Maybe there is a 3d option? Both systems working at the same time? In the Vampire Squid system all the people who are ok to be controlled operate. That means people who dont feel the need to peek trough the curtain. And in the Freedom Geeks system all the outcasts, antiVax, freedomlovers and knowledge seekers operate. Its even being mentioned on the website of the WEF in a story that takes place in the future. Most people live "healthy, secure and free" inside the controll system and there are clusters of people who didnt comply living outside the system.

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    United States Avalon Member Vangelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Excellent post ThePythonicCow, thank you.

    First let me state that I agree with the depiction of the large banks as vampire squid. However, I am less concerned with private banks and more concerned with the Central Banks and Governments. As you state above, the current system has layers and layers of complex inefficiencies which allow the private banks, central banks and govt to control us and siphon off a little fee at each layer for each transaction. The majority of the work in this system is done by the private bank and clearing houses. The Govts and Central Banks are dependent upon the private institutions to do this work for them.

    As you so well described above, the blockchain/distributed ledger technology allows you and I to conduct financial transactions directly, bypassing the current financial system, its control, and fees. That means, we are able to bypass the private banks, the central banks and the govt. All three of them now realize this is an existential threat and they have to do something.

    Will they try to kill the blockchain/crypto currency system currently in place? No, I don't think so, it is too efficient and it can be used for greater control (see CBDC description below).

    Will all three survive? My bet is the government and central banks will try to gain more control and will, in the process, diminish the role of the private institutions.

    I believe the new system they want will establish control at the point where money enters/leaves the blockchain i.e. brokerages, purchase of goods and services, payroll, custodial services (savings) etc... Governments will institute regulations such as KYC, anti-money laundering and terrorist funding at those node points. Those node points are primarily within the private bank networks.

    The logical conclusion at this point is the govt could eliminate the central bank and only work with the private banking system. But they won't because the central bank's will promise ultimate control via a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDCs - China has outlined their plans and they are frightening). This will be too enticing for any government to ignore. And the Central Bank will also argue for the destruction of cash and then be able to completely eliminate the need for the private banks.

    I don't believe the private banks understand the position they are in. If they did, they would band together and lobby the governments for the elimination of the central bank.

    I would love to hear what others think of the scenario I described above.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Excellent post ThePythonicCow, thank you.

    First let me state that I agree with the depiction of the large banks as vampire squid. However, I am less concerned with private banks and more concerned with the Central Banks and Governments. As you state above, the current system has layers and layers of complex inefficiencies which allow the private banks, central banks and govt to control us and siphon off a little fee at each layer for each transaction. The majority of the work in this system is done by the private bank and clearing houses. The Govts and Central Banks are dependent upon the private institutions to do this work for them.

    As you so well described above, the blockchain/distributed ledger technology allows you and I to conduct financial transactions directly, bypassing the current financial system, its control, and fees. That means, we are able to bypass the private banks, the central banks and the govt. All three of them now realize this is an existential threat and they have to do something.

    Will they try to kill the blockchain/crypto currency system currently in place? No, I don't think so, it is too efficient and it can be used for greater control (see CBDC description below).

    Will all three survive? My bet is the government and central banks will try to gain more control and will, in the process, diminish the role of the private institutions.

    I believe the new system they want will establish control at the point where money enters/leaves the blockchain i.e. brokerages, purchase of goods and services, payroll, custodial services (savings) etc... Governments will institute regulations such as KYC, anti-money laundering and terrorist funding at those node points. Those node points are primarily within the private bank networks.

    The logical conclusion at this point is the govt could eliminate the central bank and only work with the private banking system. But they won't because the central bank's will promise ultimate control via a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDCs - China has outlined their plans and they are frightening). This will be too enticing for any government to ignore. And the Central Bank will also argue for the destruction of cash and then be able to completely eliminate the need for the private banks.

    I don't believe the private banks understand the position they are in. If they did, they would band together and lobby the governments for the elimination of the central bank.

    I would love to hear what others think of the scenario I described above.
    What you are forgetting imo is that private banks are the tool of the Central Banks. Real power is housed with the Central Banks. I dont think they will let themselves be destroyed by Private Banks. Most puppet CEOs of private banks are under the control of Central Banks.

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    What you are forgetting imo is that private banks are the tool of the Central Banks. Real power is housed with the Central Banks. I dont think they will let themselves be destroyed by Private Banks. Most puppet CEOs of private banks are under the control of Central Banks.
    I agree, the central bank will not allow themselves to be destroyed by the Private Banks. That is why my scenario above posits that the private banks are in the worst position and will lose out if they don't do something.

    This is how I am looking at the situation (the following is an over simplification but it should suffice to frame the problem):

    Government: Make money through sales tax, income tax, and by creating fiat currency out of thin air i.e. debasement

    Central Bank: Make money on the interest it charges the government for printing the fiat currency and they set interest rates for lending fiat between banks.

    Private Banks: Make money on the interest earned lending fiat to you and I and also on transaction fees.

    You and I: We pay taxes and interest. The value of our fiat drops due to debasement. You and I get poorer because the purchasing value of our money goes down and we are paying high interest rates. You and I want the crypto revolution to continue because it will eliminate debasement, interest rates will be lower and the system will be fast, efficient and private. Example: El Salvadorians who work in the USA and are sending money back home to their families in the form of Bitcoin. They are saving 30% of what they used to spend because they don't have pay Western Union transaction fees. Instead, they send Bitcoin directly to their family members instantly and for pennies.

    As I am sure you know, DeFi* allows me to lend crypto to you without the involvement of anyone in the banking system or government. You can then purchase something with that crypto or you can convert that crypto into fiat and then purchase something. Again, no involvement of the banking system. That means the private banks will not be able to make money because they are not lending the money. Instead, I am lending the money to you. I am making the money the bank would have made on the interest. The private banks will eventually go out of business UNLESS they jump in hard and become a DeFi company and also a provider of custodial services.

    The govt can still make money on our transactions through sales tax. BUT, the income I make lending you money will only be taxed if I declare it as income and I live in the same country as you. That means the government has to regulate the DeFi company to force them to report my income.

    The thing that is missing in this scenario however, is control over the money supply and all the wealth it creates for the central bank and the government. This is, as you said, where all the power is. The government will not want to lose that power nor will the central bank.

    The solution for them is CBDCs. If we change the scenario above and include CBDCs and insert the Central Bank, then there is no reason why the central bank can't take over the DeFi service provider function completely (it is almost completely automated). If they do that, then the private banks will be wiped out. I believe this to be the most likely scenario (actually, I believe the government will regulate DeFi to the point where it is managed by the central bank and the central bank will contract out to the private banks which in turn will be reduced in size by 80%)

    This scenario means that the financial industry will be a monopoly. It will no longer be a free market. Here in the US, we have large private banking institutions for sure, but we also have a lot of very small community banks and credit unions. That means I can shop around and find the bank that offers the best lending rates. If the government regulates crypto to much, the financial industry will become a monopoly controlled by the central bank.

    * DeFi = Decentralized Finance that is enabled by the crypto blockchain technology.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    I suspect Raoul Pal is correct...

    Real Vision’s Raoul Pal Predicts When Regulators Will Reach a ‘Grand Compromise’ on Crypto
    Daily Hodl Staff October 31, 2021 REGULATORS
    https://dailyhodl.com/2021/10/31/rea...ise-on-crypto/
    ‏‏‎
    Macro guru Raoul Pal says that regulators are starting to see the value of crypto which could lead them to make a grand compromise on the industry.

    In a new interview on decentralized finance-focused (DeFi) channel The Defiant, the Real Vision CEO says regulators are struggling to apply traditional securities laws to the complex and nascent crypto space.

    “The traditional system is struggling to figure out how to fit this in. We’ve just seen that with a Bitcoin ETF. They’re trying to fit it into an existing framework that doesn’t work, so classic negotiating tactics would be to start with the hardest possible line first, which is everybody’s going to prison, you’re all terrible people, [and] this is all illegal.

    As regulators realize how much is at stake in crypto and that the old system does not work for the space, Pal says laws specifically designed to govern digital assets could emerge.

    “The reality is, I think they’ve learned pretty quickly that there’s a massive amount of money behind this and a lot of young people who have a lot of votes, so what’s going to happen? I think somewhere within this is a grand compromise, and that’s what has to happen, and it won’t be the securities laws. It will be some new digital asset laws.”

    Pal says that Singapore is already making progress with its crypto regulation, but the US may still require more time to smoothen out the digital assets space.

    “I think in the end there’s going to be a lot of bluster, and it’s negotiating tactics because everybody wants to get their side of the line, and there’ll be a grand compromise reached probably within, I guess, three years. I don’t think it’s going to be quick.”

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Mankind has a substantial difference compared to all the other species on this planet (whether that difference should be considered an advantage or a curse I'll leave to the reader).

    We make or express stuff in complex ways, building whole new layers of order out of primitive elements.

    For example:
    • We don't just "use twigs as tools". Rather we develop complex, world-wide infrastructure to mine, refine and work metals into the parts in automobiles, high rise buildings, bridges, cutlery, swords and guns, and fine Swiss watches.
    • We've developed several elaborate languages, first spoken, then hand written on wood and stone, then printed on paper, and now in computers and across the Internet.
    • We've developed weapons such as swords, guns and bombs, as well as chemical and biological weapons, one of which has been making the headlines these last couple of years.
    • We're developing computers, sensors and actuators that automate factories, control our cars and planes, power the Internet, and a bazillion other such tasks.
    • We develop powerful sources of useful energy, from burning wood, coil and oil, to using nuclear and solar, to, perhaps in the near future, "free" (from the underlying aether, as I understand it) energy.
    Each of the above can be used for good or evil.

    Thus it has been and shall be for money, whether as a sea shell, metal coin, a paper receipt, an entry in a bank's ledger, or data on some cryptographically secured distributed ledger such as a blockchain. Each of these forms are means of representing, recording, and exchanging generic value between bodies, both biological humans and legal corporations.

    Money, like the sword or knife, is a means, to various ends.

    For an example closer to home, closer to the topic of this thread, notice the ongoing struggle between "main stream" and "free people" to control what goes on this Internet. As people get kicked off Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, Android, Google, Paypal, Instagram, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Tiktok, and so forth, they form other sites, and find existing sites, that support "free" speech.

    The Elite Evil Bastards thought they had the upper hand, controlling more or less all of the main stream news, social, entertainment and pro-athlete media and channels, administrators and prominent individuals.

    As with the news and social media, as with our institutions of medicine and healing, as with our food and water, so with money.

    A year ago, the Elite Evil Bastards had many good reasons to think they were winning their final battle for control of humanity.

    The tide is turning. We're pushing back, by the hundreds of millions. More and more people every day are waking up.

    Crypto currencies, like the Web itself, are a powerful tool, that can be used for various purposes.

    The awareness and intentions of the architects, developers, regulators, maintainers and users determine how such tools are used.

    ... especially of the users.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 31st October 2021 at 18:20.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Great post full of a good deal of thought-provoking points. I am reasonably new to the crypto world, about 7 months. My primary purpose for getting involved was to develop a better understanding of where the financial world was going and to see if crypto could provide an outlet for some profitable investing. I don't think I can impress upon people enough that they should start looking into crypto because that is the direction the world is headed when it comes to everything financial.

    My thoughts on crypto are evolving at a very rapid pace. Little did I know that one of the purposes of crypto was to remove the third party. Cryptocurrency is decentralized (and anonymous), any two people, anywhere in the world, can send Bitcoin (or another crypto) to each other without the involvement of a bank, government, or other institution. Wow that in itself is astonishing and worthy of our attention. Also, that fact alone should tell everyone that governments and banks will only tolerate crypto for so long before they step in and destroy (regulate) the technology that does not benefit them and takeover (regulate) the technology that does benefit them. Cryptocurrencies technology is still evolving fairly fast, the blockchains are beginning to process transactions at a rate that is far faster than we have ever seen. I believe that ADA (Cardano) can actually do one million transactions a second compared with credit cards that do between 2000-5000 per second. Once we see these blockchains completely built out we will most like start to see the regulation move in. Originally I was naive enough to believe that governments and banks had let the cryptocurrencies go down the road so far that there would be no stopping them but now I believe that government and banks have the desire and the power to step in at any time and take control in a way that only benefits them. Of course, this will be an easy sell to the public because they will be told that it is something they need and it is being done for their protection.

    For anyone that needs to be convinced that regulation is going to happen only needs to look to China. They have stopped the public investing in crypto and the Central Bank (The People's Bank of China) has developed the digital yuan and given out millions to the public to get them "indoctrinated". This digital currency in China and eventually around the world will be nothing more than a surveillance currency. They will be able to track where you have gone, every item you have purchased and it will provide an unparalleled stream of tax revenues to governments.

    It seems to me (I would like to hear what others think) that the governments of Europe and the USA will let the crypto market heat up (possibly in another year or two) to the point of self-implosion. This will weed out thousands of useless coins and tokens and only the ones that benefit central banks and governments will be allowed to return. Of course, these coins and tokens will become dominant and worth a small fortune. Similar to what happened when the technology bubble burst in 1995/96.

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    First let me state that I agree with the depiction of the large banks as vampire squid. However, I am less concerned with private banks and more concerned with the Central Banks and Governments.
    What you are forgetting imo is that private banks are the tool of the Central Banks. Real power is housed with the Central Banks. I dont think they will let themselves be destroyed by Private Banks. Most puppet CEOs of private banks are under the control of Central Banks.
    Vangelo didn't say he was unconcerned with the private banks, only that he was less concerned.

    The Central Banks, and a handful of the world's largest private banks, such as JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, and Deutsche Bank are, along with the Bank of International Settlements in Basel, the several heads of the hydra snake. These heads must be chopped off.


    However, more central in my view, is that our underlying system of issuing money, by banks lending it out in exchange for debt paper, needs to change. This system of debt-money puts a powerful lever of control over our civilization in the hands of the banksters, as I in the sister thread to this one: How to turn ten thousand dollars into ten billion dollars, by less than honest means.

    If our core means of exchanging money, generating energy, and healing and feeding humanity fundamentally change for the better, then we've won this climatic war for the soul of humanity.

    Down with debt-money.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 31st October 2021 at 17:58.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Speaking of debt, I've long wondered what was the essential difference between the borrowing and lending of crypto-currencies that I see supported on some blockchains, and the borrowing and lending of money by banks that I rail against in my How to turn ten thousand dollars into ten billion dollars, by less than honest means sister thread.

    The difference is this:
    One form of lending is secured. As when I loan my ladder to my neighbor, there is only one ladder. If he's using it, then I'm not. Neither of us can magically make one ladder into two ladders, much less a million or billion ladders. This is the form of lending that I see on cryptocurrency blockchains. The cryptocurrency data structures, algorithms and smart contracts ensure that one unit of currency remains always and forever just one unit ... only the control of the various uses to which that one unit might be put changes hands.

    The other form of lending is a means and recipe for nearly infinite amplification of money, and hence of the power it has over our activities. These means of amplification are exactly what I spelled out, in my afore linked sister thread.
    The debt-money masters must be kicked out of the temple.

    It's not the charging of interest that concerns me so much, as it is the monetization of debt.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 1st November 2021 at 02:43.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Central Bank: Make money on the interest it charges the government for printing the fiat currency and they set interest rates for lending fiat between banks.

    Private Banks: Make money on the interest earned lending fiat to you and I and also on transaction fees.
    The primary point of my How to turn ten thousand dollars into ten billion dollars, by less than honest means sister thread is that it is not the interest charged, nor the fractional reserve lending, that is the main problem, the main source of the Banksters excessive power.

    It is the monetization of debt itself, creating more monetary assets that can leverage more debt in various other forms, layer upon layer of debt, that is the power that enables them to turn the two hundred thousand that I once borrowed as a mortgage not just into the perhaps four hundred thousand that I paid back with the interest, but into hundreds of billions of leveraged, optioned, securitized, derived, sliced and diced and repackaged debt.

    Fractional reserve lending and usurious interest charges are limited hangouts.

    The monetization of debt, and the further layered burdening of that freshly created monetary asset with yet another layer of also monetizable debt, as far as the Wall Street quant's computer can handle, is the problem, is the fulcrum about which the Banksters move the world, realizing Archimedes dream when he said (in Greek no doubt) "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Pal says laws specifically designed to govern digital assets could emerge.
    Grand new bodies of law, that lay the ground work in new areas, always seem to follow grand crashes in those same areas.

    They write the laws behind closed doors. Then when they're ready, they blow things up real good, in order to create the fear and panic that can be used to get their new laws passed.

    It is usual in such crashes for a few to become far more wealthy and powerful, and for the many to lose their shirts.

    Since I am an old man, with less time remaining to rebuild from nothing if I lose my shirt, I tend to play it safe. This means keeping my crypto off the exchanges, staying diversified in several different crypto currencies, and taking profits to move them into other stuff of value to me.

    I fully anticipate a major crash of something, somehow, in the crypto space, at a time and a place, and in a manner, that I will have no knowledge of ahead of time.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Central Bank: Make money on the interest it charges the government for printing the fiat currency and they set interest rates for lending fiat between banks.

    Private Banks: Make money on the interest earned lending fiat to you and I and also on transaction fees.
    The primary point of my How to turn ten thousand dollars into ten billion dollars, by less than honest means sister thread is that it is not the interest charged, nor the fractional reserve lending, that is the main problem, the main source of the Banksters excessive power.

    It is the monetization of debt itself, creating more monetary assets that can leverage more debt in various other forms, layer upon layer of debt, that is the power that enables them to turn the two hundred thousand that I once borrowed as a mortgage not just into the perhaps four hundred thousand that I paid back with the interest, but into hundreds of billions of leveraged, optioned, securitized, derived, sliced and diced and repackaged debt.

    Fractional reserve lending and usurious interest charges are limited hangouts.

    The monetization of debt, and the further layered burdening of that freshly created monetary asset with yet another layer of also monetizable debt, as far as the Wall Street quant's computer can handle, is the problem, is the fulcrum about which the Banksters move the world, realizing Archimedes dream when he said (in Greek no doubt) "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."

    Very interesting thread, thanks! I'm familiar with some of what you talked about - familiar as in I've watched documentaries, listened to podcasts and read up on some of it. Could you explain a bit more about the "monetization of debt"? It's a bit of a new one for me. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by indiana (here)
    Could you explain a bit more about the "monetization of debt"? It's a bit of a new one for me. Thanks!
    When you take out a mortgage to buy a home, that debt paper, the I.O.U. you signed promising to pay the loan back with some interest, is as good as money to the bank that extended that loan to you. That bank usually takes that debt paper to the market, and sells it for money. Student loans, car loans, all manner of loans are handled the same way. Your debt is someone else's money.

    We saw this in the 2008 crash, when mortgage backed securities failed. These were bundles of such home loans, packaged up and sold again, for money, just as the underlying mortgage debt paper had already been sold, When the real estate market fell, many of the mortgages failed, then many of the mortgage backed securities failed, then Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac needed a major shot of money and restructuring from the Federal government, to avoid blowing up.

    One man's debt is another man's asset. Thanks to the introduction of computers on Wall Street, and other major financial centers, in the last half century, the ability of the Banksters to repackage such debt paper as more assets, under different terms, often rehypothecating the same underlying asset to multiple overlying securities, the actual, hard asset value of such financial paper is far, far less than the apparent nominal value.

    My How to turn ten thousand dollars into ten billion dollars, by less than honest means sister thread goes into this in more detail.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    You are absolutely right ThePythonicCow ... "The monetization of debt, and the further layered burdening of that freshly created monetary asset with yet another layer of also monetizable debt ... is the problem"

    For those folks who don't quite understand what this actually means think of it as a pyramid scheme with one big difference. Most pyramid schemes begin with something of tangible value that the con artist promises to each other person. However, when they monetize debt, the thing that is being sold is the loan. It is not a tangible asset like gold or real estate. They are converting my promise to make monthly car payments into an asset and selling that. Then they take out another loan on that newly created debt asset, rinse and repeat... To make matters even worse as ThePythonicCow describes above, they can create all sorts of other exotic (i.e. crazy ass) financial instruments as well.

    This is not only unethical and immoral but it makes our financial system very fragile. The blockchain and crypto are disrupting this game. It literally empowers the people. The most important thing we can do is get educated and lobby for pro crypto legislation that outlaws CBDCs.
    Happiness comes from within, nowhere else.

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    However, when they monetize debt, the thing that is being sold is the loan. It is not a tangible asset like gold or real estate. They are converting my promise to make monthly car payments into an asset and selling that. Then they take out another loan on that newly created debt asset, rinse and repeat... To make matters even worse as ThePythonicCow describes above, they can create all sorts of other exotic (i.e. crazy ass) financial instruments as well.
    To err is human. To really f*ck things up requires a computer.

    This scale and layered complexity of financial fraud could not have been pulled off, before we had computers.

    But the solution, blockchains and other such distributed ledgers, also requires computers ... and quality networking.

    If generation one of big computer based financial and monetary infrastructure, the fraud as pulled off by the Wall Street quants, blows up big time before generation two of such infrastructure, that began with Bitcoin, gets thoroughly corrupted, then we have a good chance of knowing, collectively, how NOT to do it.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    What you are forgetting imo is that private banks are the tool of the Central Banks. Real power is housed with the Central Banks. I dont think they will let themselves be destroyed by Private Banks. Most puppet CEOs of private banks are under the control of Central Banks.
    I agree, the central bank will not allow themselves to be destroyed by the Private Banks. That is why my scenario above posits that the private banks are in the worst position and will lose out if they don't do something.

    This is how I am looking at the situation (the following is an over simplification but it should suffice to frame the problem):

    Government: Make money through sales tax, income tax, and by creating fiat currency out of thin air i.e. debasement

    Central Bank: Make money on the interest it charges the government for printing the fiat currency and they set interest rates for lending fiat between banks.

    Private Banks: Make money on the interest earned lending fiat to you and I and also on transaction fees.

    You and I: We pay taxes and interest. The value of our fiat drops due to debasement. You and I get poorer because the purchasing value of our money goes down and we are paying high interest rates. You and I want the crypto revolution to continue because it will eliminate debasement, interest rates will be lower and the system will be fast, efficient and private. Example: El Salvadorians who work in the USA and are sending money back home to their families in the form of Bitcoin. They are saving 30% of what they used to spend because they don't have pay Western Union transaction fees. Instead, they send Bitcoin directly to their family members instantly and for pennies.

    As I am sure you know, DeFi* allows me to lend crypto to you without the involvement of anyone in the banking system or government. You can then purchase something with that crypto or you can convert that crypto into fiat and then purchase something. Again, no involvement of the banking system. That means the private banks will not be able to make money because they are not lending the money. Instead, I am lending the money to you. I am making the money the bank would have made on the interest. The private banks will eventually go out of business UNLESS they jump in hard and become a DeFi company and also a provider of custodial services.

    The govt can still make money on our transactions through sales tax. BUT, the income I make lending you money will only be taxed if I declare it as income and I live in the same country as you. That means the government has to regulate the DeFi company to force them to report my income.

    The thing that is missing in this scenario however, is control over the money supply and all the wealth it creates for the central bank and the government. This is, as you said, where all the power is. The government will not want to lose that power nor will the central bank.

    The solution for them is CBDCs. If we change the scenario above and include CBDCs and insert the Central Bank, then there is no reason why the central bank can't take over the DeFi service provider function completely (it is almost completely automated). If they do that, then the private banks will be wiped out. I believe this to be the most likely scenario (actually, I believe the government will regulate DeFi to the point where it is managed by the central bank and the central bank will contract out to the private banks which in turn will be reduced in size by 80%)

    This scenario means that the financial industry will be a monopoly. It will no longer be a free market. Here in the US, we have large private banking institutions for sure, but we also have a lot of very small community banks and credit unions. That means I can shop around and find the bank that offers the best lending rates. If the government regulates crypto to much, the financial industry will become a monopoly controlled by the central bank.

    * DeFi = Decentralized Finance that is enabled by the crypto blockchain technology.
    My reply was to this statement you made:

    I don't believe the private banks understand the position they are in. If they did, they would band together and lobby the governments for the elimination of the central bank.

    I dont believe private banks will band together and lobby with the goverment as Central Banks are much higher up the foodchain. So Central Banks will not let this happen.

    The end of private banks are imo a very realistic scenario. But this would be a massive blow to Central Banks too. Thats why i see a scenario in which we get two alternative realities (as we basicly have allready with people who dont get the jab versus people who do) in which the 2 systems co-exist. Control crypto space and freedom geek crypto space.

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    …anything on a computer, based on complex math, is probably controlled by the deep state.

    You make make some “money” short term, but it is ultimately no protection. Store food, and some silver, gold…

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Dumpster Diver (here)
    …anything on a computer, based on complex math, is probably controlled by the deep state.

    You make make some “money” short term, but it is ultimately no protection. Store food, and some silver, gold…
    Computers, math, and algorithms are like guns and books.

    They can be used for a variety of purposes, and can be designed to have various strengths and weaknesses.

    In my reasonably well informed opinion, with degrees in complex math and software, the core blockchain and hashgraph algorithms are substantially more resistant to deep state manipulation than traditional banking and financial mechanisms.

    I am not a Luddite, and I do not recommend that view to others.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Welcome Back Paul, Excellent thread, i had just noticed your back on the forum, is this recent? I haven't been on the forum as much of late.
    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 1st November 2021 at 18:24.
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