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Thread: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by mozo33 (here)
    Bitcoin is not even encrypted ...
    Your identify is better than encrypted; it's not even present. Just randomly generated send and receive addresses are generated and used as needed by the senders and receivers.

    Law enforcement typically can't tell who is sending what to whom just by looking at the blockchain. That information is not there.

    When you move money between crypto and conventional money, then law enforcement can usually tell, because they are in cahoots with the exchanges and banks that do these exchanges, and those exchanges have to have your real world legal identity, to know where to send the conventional money to, or where to get it from. Also law enforcement (or other astute observer) might be able to tell from the exact amounts and times, such as a large ransomware payment for a specific and unusual amount made at a particular time, when a particular unusual transaction (in timing and amount) corresponds to some other known event.

    Bitcoin users often reuse the same receive address for multiple transactions over time. If a website puts up a Bitcoin address to receive donations, then all donations made to that address can easily be seen on the blockchain. Most crypto wallets reuse the same addresses over and over, for ease of use. Such wallets will let the user select new random addresses, so more security conscious users can avoid making it easy to see that all their transactions came from one person.

    But bitcoin transactions carry no direct legally identifying information about the parties involved.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by I am B (here)
    They worked back then for exchanging some illegal goods privately. (and they had TONS of scams etc) But you cannot base an economy into that, the same way I wouldn't bet all my money on my finely tuned pc to work forever. (specially not while having the power there is aganist it)
    As best as researchers can tell, early use of cryptocurrencies had a high proportion of illicit activity, but that (ab)use has declined over the years. Criminals are often early adopters of new technology, before law enforcement figures out how to use that tech.

    Suitcases (or in the case of Obama and the Iranians, airplanes) full of cash are still one of the best ways to covertly transfer large sums of illegally or dubiously obtained or spent money.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Quote Posted by I am B (here)
    ...
    I'm afraid thats wrong, and kinda naive too. Everything can be hacked from the moment you get online.
    How familiar are you with SHA256 and Elliptic Curve Digital Signatures?

    The one thing I am certain of, regarding the Avalon community, is that it is full of people with extraordinary depth and knowledge. As a result, I tread softly.
    I have a high degree of confidence that SHA256 signatures and Elliptic Curve private/public key encryption can not be hacked by anyone, anyhow. I don't recall offhand my back of the envelope calculations on this but it was something along the lines of saying that one would need more super computers than there are electrons in our galaxy, all connected by a network operating faster than the speed of light, for longer than the known lifetime of the universe, to crack some of these message digests and encryptions. Not going to happen.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    CBDCs have the potential to truly enslave us all. Unfortunately, I don't think we will be able to outlaw them so I only see 2 options:
    1) Work to get your government to pass laws that limit the capabilities of CBDCs
    2) Work to get your government to pass laws that facilitate the use and adoption of cryptos such as bitcoin.

    In all cases, we need to educate people as to the differences between the two.
    I completely agree .
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
    In nations where most people already have online accounts with banks, stores and other services, the customer facing interface to CBDC's might well look and feel like the debit cards many of us already have. The main difference be that the Central Bank holds the account, instead of a commercial or retail bank or similar.
    This Bank for International Settlements (BIS) paper from March of 2019 calls these "account-based" CBDC's.

    Quote Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
    In nations where many people don't have the legal identities needed to setup such accounts, or where the Central Bank wants to support more anonymous access, then the CBDC's can let each user's device, such as a PC or mobile, generate random unique identifiers to be used as the addresses to send money to, and receive money from. That might still not involve blockchains on the back end, though it might feel more like using a blockchain network, to the end user.
    The above linked BIS paper calls these "token-based" CBDC's.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
    Bitcoin users often reuse the same receive address for multiple transactions over time. If a website puts up a Bitcoin address to receive donations, then all donations made to that address can easily be seen on the blockchain. Most crypto wallets reuse the same addresses over and over, for ease of use. Such wallets will let the user select new random addresses, so more security conscious users can avoid making it easy to see that all their transactions came from one person.


    The long awaited Taproot upgrade to Bitcoin goes into effect soon, perhaps this weekend sometime. It will provide several core protocol changes, including the ability to wrap more complex transactions into one obfuscated meta-transaction. I suspect that this could be used (and if it can be, it will be) to obfuscate sequences of related transactions in order to improve privacy on the blockchain.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 13th November 2021 at 21:21.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    .
    Here is a bit more detailed explanation of the Taproot upgrade to Bitcoin:
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
    ...

    CBCD's ([sic] Central Bank Digital Currencies - CBDCs) might not even use blockchain technology

    ... In short, CBCD's are not that much different than checking accounts with ordinary banks, except (1) no paper checks, (2) only electronic access over the Internet and (3) it's the Big Daddy of banks in your nation you're dealing with, so you jolly well better hope they don't take a dislike to you.
    This is why we need crypto friendly laws so that we can keep our money out of the hands of the Central Banks. I just posted the following in the BREAKING NEWS ~ Continuously Updated thread here:

    Biden’s OCC (Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) nominee Saule Omarova wants to take your bank deposit account.


    I have no doubt that many progressives think this way but I am flabbergasted that she would say this openly. Is there something here I am missing?

    Edit: Incorrectly identified her as the Treasury nominee rather than the OCC nominee.
    Last edited by Vangelo; 14th November 2021 at 14:39.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Quote Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
    ...

    ... In short, CBCD's are not that much different than checking accounts with ordinary banks, except (1) no paper checks, (2) only electronic access over the Internet and (3) it's the Big Daddy of banks in your nation you're dealing with, so you jolly well better hope they don't take a dislike to you.
    This is why we need crypto friendly laws so that we can keep our money out of the hands of the Central Banks.
    I doubt that laws will protect us from the Central Banks, for the legislators are agents of the Banksters.

    Rather cryptos that are intended to provide monetary liberty are one essential element to protect us from the Banksters.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Biden’s OCC (Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) nominee Saule Omarova wants to take your bank deposit account.

    I have no doubt that many progressives think this way but I am flabbergasted that she would say this openly. Is there something here I am missing?
    I commented on OCC nominee Saule Omarova at some length on my Money Masters thread. See my Post #95, on that thread.

    She's a piece of work. Like some other officials, she's so bad, she might be good for us in the long term, due to the damage she could cause to some current tyrannical and fraudulent institutions, if she gets in.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Came across this publication, may be interesting to some.
    https://www.fatf-gafi.org/publicatio...ober-2021.html

    If US dollar crashes as designed by this "great reset" thing, does it make all crypto totally useless?

    Thanks for the thread, very insightful.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)

    If US dollar crashes as designed by this "great reset" thing, does it make all crypto totally useless?

    Thanks for the thread, very insightful.
    Let's first define US Dollar crashing as it becoming near worthless relative to all other fiat currencies.

    It is important to know that Crypto is priced relative to all the fiat currencies in the world meaning I can, for instance, go to an exchange in a country and see its price relative to that currency. I can also purchase it or redeem it in that fiat currency.

    I can also purchase or redeem crypto in other crytpo's. Here is a screen shot from the Coinbase Pro exchange to illustrate pricing relative to Fiat (Euro) or other Crypto.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_2021-11-22_064644.png
Views:	23
Size:	194.8 KB
ID:	47965

    The implication of the US Dollar becoming worthless simply means people with US dollars will not be able to afford it any longer unless they hold other fiat, other crypto, gold, silver or a valuable commodity.

    If we define US Dollar crashing as the entire financial system crashes and no longer functions, then the other fiat currencies will be in the same place as the USD. In that scenario, only people with other crypto, gold, silver or other commodities will have wealth. This is the 'store of value' argument.

    Some will argue that under this catastrophic scenario, only gold (and silver) will hold value because it had done so for 1000s of years. The counter argument to that boils down to exchangeability referring to the difficulty of conducting any transaction with gold where as with Bitcoin, it is very easy to transact with anyone anywhere in the world.

    This often leads back to the basic question of whether or not Bitcoin is an equal to or better store of value than gold. The paper referenced earlier in this thread lays out that argument quite well ... The Bullish Case for Bitcoin over Gold.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)

    If we define US Dollar crashing as the entire financial system crashes and no longer functions, then the other fiat currencies will be in the same place as the USD. In that scenario, only people with other crypto, gold, silver or other commodities will have wealth. This is the 'store of value' argument.
    Only if working under the framework of the SWIFT system, if you go out of it, then items such as gold or other resources may suddenly have more value than estimated under the west controlled value system in place right now

    Quote Some will argue that under this catastrophic scenario, only gold (and silver) will hold value because it had done so for 1000s of years. The counter argument to that boils down to exchangeability referring to the difficulty of conducting any transaction with gold where as with Bitcoin, it is very easy to transact with anyone anywhere in the world.
    If you want to eliminate or ruin an enemy, you make their money worthless.

    The SWIFT alternative has been already implemented, and it will be set in motion across lots of countries very soon. If/Once the dollar fails, this 'secondary' system will pick up all the countries and avoid a global failure. "Except for the countries that won't align to the new system in place"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPFS
    Quote At the end of 2020, 23 foreign banks connected to the SPFS from Armenia, Belarus, Germany, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Switzerland.
    If everyone suddenly switches to the SPFS, and abandon SWIFT, then the western dollar based economy collapses in a day, yet no country would be affected, they keep trading on the other system, in their own currencies, and the dollar is out. It's as easy as that
    Last edited by Mashika; 22nd November 2021 at 12:39.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)

    If we define US Dollar crashing as the entire financial system crashes and no longer functions, then the other fiat currencies will be in the same place as the USD. In that scenario, only people with other crypto, gold, silver or other commodities will have wealth. This is the 'store of value' argument.
    Only if working under the framework of the SWIFT system, if you go out of it, then items such as gold or other resources may suddenly have more value than estimated under the west controlled value system in place right now

    Quote Some will argue that under this catastrophic scenario, only gold (and silver) will hold value because it had done so for 1000s of years. The counter argument to that boils down to exchangeability referring to the difficulty of conducting any transaction with gold where as with Bitcoin, it is very easy to transact with anyone anywhere in the world.
    If you want to eliminate or ruin an enemy, you make their money worthless.

    The SWIFT alternative has been already implemented, and it will be set in motion across lots of countries very soon. If/Once the dollar fails, this 'secondary' system will pick up all the countries and avoid a global failure. "Except for the countries that won't align to the new system in place"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPFS
    Quote At the end of 2020, 23 foreign banks connected to the SPFS from Armenia, Belarus, Germany, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Switzerland.
    If everyone suddenly switches to the SPFS, and abandon SWIFT, then the western dollar based economy collapses in a day, yet no country would be affected, they keep trading on the other system, in their own currencies, and the dollar is out. It's as easy as that
    SPFS and SWIFT are systems that enable financial institutions worldwide to send and receive financial transactions in a secure, standardized and reliable network. There are other facilities that do the same thing such as CIPS (China) and INSTEX (EU). In addition, Ripple and Stellar are two crypto's which offer a blockchain based network as well.

    All of these implementations require an intermediary organization to manage and administer the transactions (where Stellar and Ripple are much less onerous than the others). However, decentralized blockchains such at Bitcoin offer real Peer to Peer (P2P) transactions and do not need any organization, administration or oversight in between. This makes them much more efficient, private and secure.

    It would seem to me that the scenario where everyone suddenly abandons SWIFT would indeed cause a problem but it would be temporary and short term. There are multiple alternatives that could be quickly adopted such as INSTEX, Stellar or Ripple. In addition, there is nothing that would prohibit the use of bitcoin or any other crypto as well. For Instance, Boeing could very easily accept payment in bitcoin.
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Biden’s OCC (Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) nominee Saule Omarova wants to take your bank deposit account.

    I have no doubt that many progressives think this way but I am flabbergasted that she would say this openly. Is there something here I am missing?
    I commented on OCC nominee Saule Omarova at some length on my Money Masters thread. See my Post #95, on that thread.

    She's a piece of work. Like some other officials, she's so bad, she might be good for us in the long term, due to the damage she could cause to some current tyrannical and fraudulent institutions, if she gets in.

    Let's hope this report is accurate: Scoop: Centrist Dems sink Biden’s nominee for top bank regulator
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    Default Re: Will the Banksters Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish Cryptocurrencies?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)

    If we define US Dollar crashing as the entire financial system crashes and no longer functions, then the other fiat currencies will be in the same place as the USD. In that scenario, only people with other crypto, gold, silver or other commodities will have wealth. This is the 'store of value' argument.
    Only if working under the framework of the SWIFT system, if you go out of it, then items such as gold or other resources may suddenly have more value than estimated under the west controlled value system in place right now

    Quote Some will argue that under this catastrophic scenario, only gold (and silver) will hold value because it had done so for 1000s of years. The counter argument to that boils down to exchangeability referring to the difficulty of conducting any transaction with gold where as with Bitcoin, it is very easy to transact with anyone anywhere in the world.
    If you want to eliminate or ruin an enemy, you make their money worthless.

    The SWIFT alternative has been already implemented, and it will be set in motion across lots of countries very soon. If/Once the dollar fails, this 'secondary' system will pick up all the countries and avoid a global failure. "Except for the countries that won't align to the new system in place"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPFS
    Quote At the end of 2020, 23 foreign banks connected to the SPFS from Armenia, Belarus, Germany, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Switzerland.
    If everyone suddenly switches to the SPFS, and abandon SWIFT, then the western dollar based economy collapses in a day, yet no country would be affected, they keep trading on the other system, in their own currencies, and the dollar is out. It's as easy as that
    SPFS and SWIFT are systems that enable financial institutions worldwide to send and receive financial transactions in a secure, standardized and reliable network. There are other facilities that do the same thing such as CIPS (China) and INSTEX (EU). In addition, Ripple and Stellar are two crypto's which offer a blockchain based network as well.

    All of these implementations require an intermediary organization to manage and administer the transactions (where Stellar and Ripple are much less onerous than the others). However, decentralized blockchains such at Bitcoin offer real Peer to Peer (P2P) transactions and do not need any organization, administration or oversight in between. This makes them much more efficient, private and secure.

    It would seem to me that the scenario where everyone suddenly abandons SWIFT would indeed cause a problem but it would be temporary and short term. There are multiple alternatives that could be quickly adopted such as INSTEX, Stellar or Ripple. In addition, there is nothing that would prohibit the use of bitcoin or any other crypto as well. For Instance, Boeing could very easily accept payment in bitcoin.
    Wow Malisa, you must have a crystal ball. Good Call :-)

    Biden Mulls Cutting Russia Off SWIFT Ahead Of Putin Call In "Nuclear Option" Ukraine Response

    "... if Russia invades Ukraine "the US and Europe together will impose the worst economic sanctions that have ever been imposed on a country, outside of Iran and North Korea," according to the report.

    It should be noted that with such an "option" in play, if things actually escalated to the historically unprecedented level of Russia's being blocked from SWIFT - such a scenario would mark a huge future day for cryptos, given cryptos have been suggested as the first space Putin would likely migrate to amid total isolation for the West-based payment system used by banks around the world.
    "
    Last edited by Vangelo; 6th December 2021 at 18:37.
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