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Thread: The Great Separation/Quarantine?

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    Default The Great Separation/Quarantine?

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    They will not be able to hide the truth much longer and sadly it will be the vaxed people that will need to be separated from the healthy population. And there will be science to back up the findings.
    Hey there y'all,

    I nearly tossed some questions out to mojo on the thread it was originally posted on, but quickly realized it was off topic, and would likely lead that particular subject astray. So here we are with a new topic.

    I'm wondering not only how this idea might work, but how popular a separation solution might or might not be if push came to shove.

    So here's some basic questions to get things rolling:

    - Were it to be deemed by trusted experts that for the health and well being of society in general, that separating the vaxxed from the unvaxxed is the only way to safely move forward, would you support the idea?

    - If so, what might be the best, and most humane way of orchestrating this separation, while ensuring it stays that way?

    - How might it ultimately be determined who is vaxxed, and who is not? The vaxxed may understandably try to hide it, so would there need to be like the invention of a streamlined blood screening or something, that everyone must go through in order to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak?

    - How could it be assured that the vaxxed have everything they need for their daily survival?

    So anyway, that's about all I have for initial basic questions.

    Looking forward to comments.
    Last edited by Gracy; 2nd November 2021 at 14:20.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    A separation like you have described Gracy couldn't possibly happen IMO. There is no neat dividing line between the vaxxed and unvaxxed. Most importantly, you have families composed of both kinds of people, and I cannot imagine that families as well as close knit communities are going to voluntarily separate like that, even if there is science backing such a thing.

    The only way I could see it happening is through the use of force. And as far as I can tell only the state has the kind of power to do something like that. Unlikely, as many countries are doing the opposite by pushing the vaccine very strongly, and locking out those who are unvaccinated. Look at my dear country. I can't go to a cafe as things stand.

    If anyone is going to be permanently cast out to some detention centre or island it would be the unvaccinated. But even that I cannot see happening. You have a soft version of that happening already, and I suppose it could escalate, but I just can't imagine society going along with such a crazy thing. I know there is a lot of division right now, but I still don't think so much so that the above scenario is likely. I think we are all stuck in this together

    Good questions Gracy. What do you think might happen?
    Last edited by Billy Vasiliadis; 1st November 2021 at 14:33.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    They will not be able to hide the truth much longer and sadly it will be the vaxed people that will need to be separated from the healthy population. And there will be science to back up the findings.
    Hey there y'all,

    I nearly tossed some questions out to mojo on the thread it was originally posted on, but quickly realized it was off topic, and would likely lead that particular subject astray. So here we are with a new topic.

    I'm wondering not only how this idea might work, but how popular a separation solution might or might not be if push came to shove.

    So here's some basic questions to get things rolling:

    - Were it to be deemed by trusted experts that for the health and well being of society in general, that separating the vaxxed from the unvaxxed is the only way to safely move forward, would you support the idea?

    - If so, what might be the best, and most humane way of orchestrating this separation, while ensuring it stays that way?

    - How might it ultimately be determined who is vaxxed, and who is not? The vaxxed may understandably try to hide it, so would there need to be like the invention of a streamlined blood screening or something, that everyone must go through in order to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak?

    - How could it be assured that the vaxxed have everything they need for their daily survival?

    So anyway, that's about all I have for initial basic questions.

    Looking forward to comments.
    Gracy, I can't help but feel like this is a sort of setup. It's sort of baiting as though the vaxxed are being victimized on this forum. Even the "looking forward to your comments" with a smily face emoji. At least that is what your post feels like to me. We all have free choice. We live with our decisions.

    Let me tell you what I have done as someone who chooses not to take this vaccination and has been banned from volunteering, the gym , restaurants thus far. I have prepared by buying essentials and making myself as self sufficient as I possibly can be and in every aspect that is within my financial means to do. If I am sick, I stay home just like I have always done.

    I understand I am not a victim in this. I could run down to any number of stores and get a vaccine today and when I've had 2 or 3 whatever they currently "mandate" as acceptable I will be able to go to restaurants, gyms and could probably volunteer again.

    As someone who has had a history of addiction, I am pretty sure I could find some threads somewhere where people point out the issues of being an addict. They may even claim they don't want to be around addicts. If I don't want to hear it, I just don't look at it. Same thing with believing in Sasquatches. I am sure I could find someone disagreeing with me on that.

    I for one, will not apologize for researching the injection, for searching for motives behind it, for looking into shedding. For looking at government planning. If you don't like the research, as I have said before, don't look at it. If you have valid alternative data that proves our research wrong, present it. Unless Bill tells me I am out of line, I am going to continue.

    I for one, won't be dragged into your debate. Do you see yourself as a victim here?

    You don't need to respond, I am not posting on this thread any longer, it would be counter productive.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    This very conversation is now being had by the vaxxed against the un vaxxed. I don't like the idea of separation, for any reason. Our kith and kin are both vaxxed and un vaxxed, who do we turn our backs on? I say no to separation on any grounds.

    The logistics of finding the last of any group of separatists would entail local level intel, combined with local sympathizers and local to national reporting systems, allowing dry or wet teams to move in fast and either capture or kill them. Rinse and repeat until the last has been mopped up. Counter insurgency is the name of this strategy.

    I don't like it. I don't like the implications of such conversations. I think we are better than this. I think we could better spend our time asking how to evade such techniques and tactics...

    I hope and pray there is no great separation. Beyond the separation that we already have, via the many varied reasons we already use against our own species to cause separation of geography or culture or race or morality or kindness or logic.

    Booooo boooooo, down with separation... Up with unity.......x..... N
    Last edited by Nasu; 1st November 2021 at 14:59.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    I also agree with Pam.

    To turn the tables on the question is not productive.

    You cannot segregate for any reason, vaxed, unvaxed, white, black, or whatever.

    You could remove the illegal immigrant, though. You could hunt down the criminals from abroad that now abound in the west. They could be tossed out of our countries. We could stop illegal mandates of all kinds. We could stop experimental injections on the population. We could reject the globalist wet dream.

    But you cannot, for any reason, segregate the population. As soon as that subject is broached, like here, you can be sure freedom has left the building and tyranny has arrived.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    They will not be able to hide the truth much longer and sadly it will be the vaxed people that will need to be separated from the healthy population. And there will be science to back up the findings.
    Hey there y'all,

    I nearly tossed some questions out to mojo on the thread it was originally posted on, but quickly realized it was off topic, and would likely lead that particular subject astray. So here we are with a new topic.

    I'm wondering not only how this idea might work, but how popular a separation solution might or might not be if push came to shove.

    So here's some basic questions to get things rolling:

    - Were it to be deemed by trusted experts that for the health and well being of society in general, that separating the vaxxed from the unvaxxed is the only way to safely move forward, would you support the idea?

    - If so, what might be the best, and most humane way of orchestrating this separation, while ensuring it stays that way?

    - How might it ultimately be determined who is vaxxed, and who is not? The vaxxed may understandably try to hide it, so would there need to be like the invention of a streamlined blood screening or something, that everyone must go through in order to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak?

    - How could it be assured that the vaxxed have everything they need for their daily survival?

    So anyway, that's about all I have for initial basic questions.

    Looking forward to comments.
    It would depend a great deal upon who the “trusted experts” really were. I am wondering why we would even need to make the distinction upon vaxxed vs. unvaxxed?

    I mean, are you deliberately trying to draw a rift between the two?

    As a former Biotechnology graduate, and having been complicit in the manufacture of vaccines (albeit in animal ‘health’, as distinct from human health products), I have to ask a powerful question:
    Have we ever encountered such a social divide over who has been vaccinated with Hep-B? Or Cholera? Or Typhoid? And why not?

    And so why now? What is C-19? Why is it so bad / health destroying / Novell? And where is the scientific data to support the premise?

    And, as a follow-up question, has it ever been deemed necessary, in the 200MY history of the human race, to force the population to subject themselves to this version of medical tyranny?

    Get perspective! Something is very, very wrong with this picture. I am sure enough of us are picking up on this perspective already.

    No, this whole scam is a political movement, not a public health issue. Though I respect your viewpoint, I do not feel comfortable with the potentially divisive direction of your question, Gracy.

    But let’s entertain the idea of a NEED to differentiate between the vaxxed and the unvaxxed. Why should we need to?

    I mean, if you’re ‘vaxxed’ then logic dictates you are no longer in any danger of succumbing to the disease, yes? So why, on God’s green Earth, would the ‘vaxxed’ be so worried about anything {aka COVID-19} that will likely harm them? And, more to the point, why should they worry about the unvaxxed? If you’re jabbed, doesn’t that mean you are safe? Else, why would you take the shot?

    Am I missing the point of your post?
    Last edited by Tigger; 1st November 2021 at 15:06. Reason: Emphasis added

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    To me, this type of speculation falls under the "what if" scenarios which I have very much been trying to avoid, both internally and in external discussion. I would rather use my creative powers to shore up the Truth, Light and Love which will overcome the deception, lies and fear that is so rampant and which is the real pandemic, IMO. Peace out, everyone!!

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Quote Posted by Tigger (here)
    But let’s entertain the idea of a NEED to differentiate between the vaxxed and the unvaxxed. Why should we need to?

    I mean, if you’re ‘vaxxed’ then logic dictates you are no longer in any danger of succumbing to the disease, yes? So why, on God’s green Earth, would the ‘vaxxed’ be so worried about anything {aka COVID-19} that will likely harm them? And, more to the point, why should they worry about the unvaxxed? If you’re jabbed, doesn’t that mean you are safe? Else, why would you take the shot?

    Am I missing the point of your post?
    Seemingly so Tigger. My original post started out quoting a member saying that "sadly it will be the vaxed people that will need to be separated from the healthy population", thus my questions.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Ah - Gracy (May) is still stirring the negativity pot.
    Yes, we need a ‘prodder’, but this ‘moderator’ is deliberately infuriating, causing problems constantly, so bring it on ‘Gracy’, you must spend many hours challenging logic, in your ‘pleasant’ way.
    Enough is enough of your patronising posts. Go away - you are totally negative here, despite commendably trying to promote alternative points of view, despite your name change, you are still who you are. Negative.
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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    A bit harsh avid I feel. I get that Gracy has different viewpoints on some major topics of concern, but she communicates in good faith. I think that is a good thing, it allows us to dig a bit deeper into why we believe what we do

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    I'd say that while there's more examples at present of vaxxed/pro-vax people shunning the unvaxxed, sometimes the reverse is also true:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasual...ers_wont_even/

    Quote My mother is 60 years old and immunocomprimised, so she was the first in line to get vaccinated. Several others in my family were vaccinated without much fanfair too. Well apparently my cousin made the decision to sit the vaccinated at a table at the wedding that had an air filter next to it, so you could already tell who was vaccinated and who wasn't.

    Apparently this set off the Q contingent. They would not even look at my mother, let alone speak to her. This really upset my mom. She has be apolitical in public pretty much her entire life and she was shocked that parts of her only family would refuse to make eye contact with her just because she was vaccinated.

    She was shocked that the culture wars could get so bad that it even caused a divide in our tight knit family. I tried to make her feel better over our Facetime call but it was to no avail.
    As I see it, shunning by either side is only making things worse, and we should not adopt the same divide and conquer tactics of the controllers.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    To lighten things up a bit, I sure hope that when we all get sent to re-education camp it is nothing like this


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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    When I saw the title of the OP, I was thinking... The GREAT separation of those who have assumed self/SELF creativity (and connection to the Creator) and those who are stuck under the wrapped cloak of victim/victimizer/savior 3D materiality.

    I pray that we DO have this separation because I am just tired of the manipulation, the LIES, the stupidity and the sordid sad pitifulness which is a miasm.

    Everyday I pray that the "sea parting" move forward. I am fearless about loosening the dregs of compensation for lack (all the ways the compensation appears). In the camp I will make with others, there is NO lack.

    There is no need for any fear because in EVERY MOMENT we can choose again, choose FOR life and love and health and there we find what FREE (dominion) was meant for us. Each being is a light of creation and we were given the opportunity to throw off the shackles of the illusion that we ARE separate.

    HAHA, the joke is on the puppeteers. They tried to separate us. They lost.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Billy
    I agree, but for ages it’s always playing ‘devil’s advocate’ interminably. We need folk - plural - but Gracy May has been consistently negative for many months, especially during the Trump fiasco. Is she going to now ‘kowtow’ to the Bidens, or Pelosi-poison? Has she switched allegiances ?
    Last edited by avid; 1st November 2021 at 16:09.
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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Quote Posted by Gracy (here)
    Quote Posted by Tigger (here)
    But let’s entertain the idea of a NEED to differentiate between the vaxxed and the unvaxxed. Why should we need to?

    I mean, if you’re ‘vaxxed’ then logic dictates you are no longer in any danger of succumbing to the disease, yes? So why, on God’s green Earth, would the ‘vaxxed’ be so worried about anything {aka COVID-19} that will likely harm them? And, more to the point, why should they worry about the unvaxxed? If you’re jabbed, doesn’t that mean you are safe? Else, why would you take the shot?

    Am I missing the point of your post?
    Seemingly so Tigger. My original post started out quoting a member saying that "sadly it will be the vaxed people that will need to be separated from the healthy population", thus my questions.

    Ah, I see your point. Then let’s assume this happens. And let’s even extrapolate on this idea and decree that there SHOULD be a divide. Okay... is this a good thing? I’d wager it isn’t (based on the points I made above), but let’s assume that it is datum. Phew!

    We’re looking at a form of social segregation and marginalisation that once happened some 70 years ago, in a little state called Germany. I’m not saying that things will pan out the way they did back then (but it wouldn’t be a stretch to imagine), although I want to sound the klaxon-horn that history is going to repeat itself if we’re not very, VERY careful and alert, because (IMO) humanity in general is far more interested in ‘what is’ rather than ‘what we really want to be’.

    And herein lies the conundrum.

    Someone is eventually gong to call me out on the analogies to the Star Trek clips I often make, but I feel this one is more than relevant, given the context:
    Last edited by Tigger; 1st November 2021 at 16:31. Reason: Removed a silly statement

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Its just one step in the genocide checklist, not the end goal imho


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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Hi Gracy I will just respond without seeing much of what others have said. I WILL USE ALL CAPS FOR MY COMMENTS firing from the hip/

    Hey there y'all, HI THERE TOO

    I nearly tossed some questions out to mojo on the thread it was originally posted on, but quickly realized it was off topic, and would likely lead that particular subject astray. So here we are with a new topic.

    I'm wondering not only how this idea might work, but how popular a separation solution might or might not be if push came to shove.
    NOT POPULAR IN MY VIEW. IF THE TRUTH COULD JUST GET OUT THERE BY THE MSMEDIA, THEN THERE WOULDNT BE THIS DIVISION OR NEED TO SEPARATE ANYONE . THE MAKER OF THE PCR TEST SAID IT DOESNT WORK FOR THIS APPLICATION. ITS 97%FLAWED
    THEY HAVE SWITCHED THE ISSUE FROM BEING "SICK ", TO JUST "TESTING POSITIVE". AS IF THAT WAS THE SICKNESS. THEY HAVE MADE READING THE MENU, AS IF EATING THE MEAL.
    So here's some basic questions to get things rolling:

    - Were it to be deemed by trusted experts that for the health and well being of society in general, that separating the vaxxed from the unvaxxed is the only way to safely move forward, would you support the idea? THERE ARE NO TRUSTED EXPERTS THAT CAN GET A VOICE, BECAUSE THE ENTIRE THING IS A PLAN. TRUSTED EXPERTS ARE ABUNDANT, LIKE DR DAVID MARTIN, REINER FUELLMACH, MIKE YEADON, DR PETER MCCULLOUGH AMERICAN FRONTIER DOCTORS ETC ETC .

    - If so, what might be the best, and most humane way of orchestrating this separation, while ensuring it stays that way? THERE WILL BE NO AGREEMENT ON ANY OF THIS BECUASE THE GOAL IS NOT FOR US TO AGREE ON ANYTHING . THE GOAL IS TO HAVE US DIVIDED IN ANGER AND HATRED OF EACH OTHER AS THEIR OTHER PLANS GET PUT THRU. THIS BATTLE IS MAKING EVEN THE STRONGEST WARRIORS WEARY AND EXHAUSTED.

    - How might it ultimately be determined who is vaxxed, and who is not? The vaxxed may understandably try to hide it, so would there need to be like the invention of a streamlined blood screening or something, that everyone must go through in order to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak? THE SCREENING WOULD BE USED AGINST EVERYONE AS A DNA BANK.
    THE VAXX IS NOT A VACCINE.
    PRIOR TO THE ELECTION STEAL, BIDEN HARRIS SAID, NO WAY THEY WOULD TAKE IT ! DONT KNOW WHATS IN IT ? WONT TAKE IT IF ITS TRUMPS ! NOW THE SAME THING IS BEING MANDATED? REALLY? HOW CAN ANYONE TAKE THIS CRAP? ITS POLITICAL, BOUGHT AND ALL BS JUST LIKE GOV MURPHY TESTING THE ELECTION WATERS TO SEE IF HE SHOULD ROLL OUT THE MANDATE ? THOUGHT THIS WAS A PANDEMIC AND HEALTH ISSUE?.
    HOW CAN ANYONE TAKE THIS CRAP?

    - How could it be assured that the vaxxed have everything they need for their daily survival ? THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE IT ALL IF THEY ARE VAXXED. NO NEED FOR MASK, NO NEED FOR FEAR FROM VAXED OR UNVAXED. FREE TO SHOP AS PART OF THE JABB CLUB .
    DID YOU MEAN HOW THE UNVAXED WILL HAVE WHAT THEY NEED? THEY ARE THE ONES BEING OSTRACIZED !

    ITS ALL A CON GAME!

    So anyway, that's about all I have for initial basic questions. ME TOO. THANKS

    Looking forward to comments.
    BYE

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  33. Link to Post #18
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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Don't fall into the illusionary trap of separation
    I shall continue to love and care for all my family and friends unconditionally whether they are vaccinated or unvaccinated
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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  35. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Quote Posted by Billy (here)
    Don't fall into the illusionary trap of separation
    I shall continue to love and care for all my family and friends unconditionally whether they are vaccinated or unvaccinated
    One of the most important people to influence me was John Trudell. He was an American activist who overcame great personal horror when his family was deliberately murdered by arson. There is so much that he said but one thing was "We are human beings". Our being comes from relationship to the earth. We as humans are being mined. We have been trapped.




    Quote We Are All Related
    The Lakota Holy Man Black Elk’s Vision for Peace on Earth
    By Nathan Beacom
    OCTOBER 12, 2020

    “Every man wants to huff and puff
    their warriorness,” he said.
    “But the real work is peace.”

    —Trevino L. Brings Plenty

    Abeat-up old Humvee growled up to the light at 6th and Main in downtown Rapid City, South Dakota. There was a little Confederate flag sticker on its window. On the street corner was a tiny group of social justice demonstrators. Among the young white activists was also one Lakota man, probably in his sixties; holding a sign that said “Native Lives Matter,” he walked up to the Humvee and tried to initiate a conversation with its driver. The murmur of their speech grew louder as the driver’s face became upset and he shook his head in anger. My friend Reed and I were leaning up against an electrical box nearby having a smoke, and we could feel the rising tension in the scene. In the nick of time, the light turned green, the demonstrators went to pull their fellow protestor back onto the sidewalk, and the driver roared off down the road. We all breathed a small sigh of relief.
    The day before, Reed and I had hiked up Black Elk Peak, the highest prominence on this side of the Rockies. The mountain is a sacred one for the Lakota, for whom it and the surrounding Black Hills represent the “heart of everything that is.” Black Elk, the Lakota holy man for whom the peak was recently renamed, called it Okawita Paha, the gathering place. The course of Black Elk’s life was set by a vision of this peak he had seen while comatose at the age of nine, and the circle of his life was completed when he finally climbed it as an old man. There, at the highest point, he prayed his final prayer: that the Great Spirit would gather together the peoples of the earth and lead them on the good red road to the day of quiet.

    In his prayers, Nick Black Elk (“Nick” was added to his name after his baptism) often returned to the phrase “we are all related.” Maka Black Elk, a descendant of Nick’s and an educator at Pine Ridge’s Red Cloud Indian School, tells me that this is a central concept in Lakota tradition, as important as the word “amen” is in Christianity. For Lakota Catholics like Black Elk, the two could be said together. A harmony was felt between the Lakota concept of relatedness and the Catholic notion of the relationship of all things as they find their source in the Trinity. This idea, in its different expressions, and in spite of the complex history of Catholic-Lakota relations, is a recognition of the interwoven dignity of creation. Because we are all related, coming from the same source, we owe every creature respect and should approach each thing with reverence. This is true of all the many peoples, and it is true also of the four-legged creatures, the flying things, the land, the water, and the sky. We are all related.

    “I was standing on the highest mountain of them all, and round about beneath me was the whole hoop of the world.” —Nick Black Elk

    I think of this notion as I remember that brief encounter in Rapid City; I think of it, too, as I observe the tone of so many of our public disagreements today. The anger, fear, and lack of trust that define our political and social interactions can make it difficult to understand how we could all belong to the same family. And yet, rejecting the notion that we belong to one another is at the heart of all historical crimes; the history of the Black Hills bears this out.

    To think of ourselves as related means to recognize that we stand in a network of mutual obligation and care with each person with whom we come into contact. As we know, the US government and American settlers more often treated native peoples with suspicion, violence, and unfaithfulness than with such concern. This fact continues to show its ill effects today.

    Still, this truth is our only hope for addressing and setting right this ongoing history: you are my relative, and I am yours. Believing and acting this way is the work of peace, for all of us of every heritage, and it is the road we must take if we are to reconcile past hurts and to share this country in friendship.

    If traveling across the empty, treeless plains, you find yourself at the Pole of Inaccessibility, you will know you have almost made it. You have come past the badlands and journeyed many miles without seeing any signs of activity beyond the endless advertisements for Wall Drug. You are at North America’s most inaccessible point, the furthest from any shore. This is the Pine Ridge Reservation, and a couple of miles ahead of you is Oglala Lakota County, the poorest county, per capita, in the country.
    Follow the Big Foot Trail up to Highway 44, and you’ll be on your way to Rapid City, a growing community with a beautiful downtown that constitutes the gateway to the Black Hills beyond. Those hills are dotted with tourists and people making money off tourists. They also belong by treaty to the Lakota Sioux. The land was famously stolen from them in the 1870s in a move the United States has still not found the wherewithal to reverse, despite admitting wrongdoing. The pattern today is not altogether different from the days when George Armstrong Custer ran around the East Coast shouting that the Black Hills were chock full of gold. There was plenty of lucre moving about in the hills, but the Lakota saw little of it.

    After the Black Hills gold rush, conflict with the tribes of the Dakotas began in earnest. As President Ulysses S. Grant admitted, the trouble grew out of the “avarice of the white man, who has violated our treaty stipulations in his search for gold.” Over the course of the several years following Custer’s announcement, the United States government tried several gambits to buy the Black Hills from the tribes, but its overtures were consistently met with resistance. To the tribes, the Black Hills simply were not something to be put up for sale. In response, US military officials became increasingly aggressive and the situation continued to escalate. The famous names of the events that followed and their leading figures are familiar: Little Bighorn, Greasy Grass, Wounded Knee, Red Cloud, and Crazy Horse.

    Black Elk was involved with each of these. He belonged to Red Cloud’s band, he fought as a mere child at Little Bighorn, he was the cousin of Crazy Horse, and he tried to save his people at Wounded Knee. The vision that he was given as a boy foretold hunger, sickness, and violence, and he lived to see all these things and more. These were the days when the people walked on the thunderous black road of trouble. But in his vision the grandfathers, who signify the powers of the earth, had also told Black Elk of another road, the good red road which led to peace. “All over the universe they have finished a day of happiness,” an unseen voice said to him. “Behold this day, for it is yours to make.”

    “To open the doors of solidarity, we have to begin by reckoning with what has divided us.” —Maka Black Elk

    But how to arrive at this day? In his vision the grandfathers gave Black Elk a sacred red stick which, when placed in the center of the sacred hoop, bloomed into a waga chun, the tree that signaled the day of quiet. As the vision came to its end, the grandfathers took Black Elk to the peak in the Black Hills that would one day bear his name. The hoop of his people now joined the hoop of the whole human family and all of creation.

    I was standing on the highest mountain of them all, and round about beneath me was the whole hoop of the world. And while I stood there I saw more than I can tell and I understood more than I saw; for I was seeing in a sacred manner the shapes of all things in the spirit, and the shape of all shapes as they must live together like one being. And I saw that the sacred hoop of my people was one of many hoops that made one circle, wide as daylight and as starlight, and in the center grew one mighty flowering tree to shelter all the children of one mother and one father.

    Mitákuye Oyásiŋ is the Lakota way of saying “we are all related.” In Maka’s description, it is a phrase that points to the interdependence of all things. The Covid-19 pandemic and the ecological threats of our time, he notes, are excellent examples of this truth. It is an idea that is both practical and philosophical. On the practical level, it applies to that sense of communal care that defines the relationship between neighbors. On a philosophical level, it means that the world and all that is in it comes from the same divine source, that each piece of creation affects, depends upon, and participates in the life of the others.
    As Black Elk saw, this notion resonates with elements of Christian tradition. Pope Francis has emphasized these threads in the spirituality of his namesake, St. Francis of Assisi, the Italian beggar who gave to Christianity the language of Brother Sun, Sister Moon, Sister Water, and Mother Earth. It is in the same spirit that the pope speaks in his letter on the care for our common home, “The Spirit, infinite bond of love, is intimately present at the very heart of the universe, inspiring and bringing new pathways.” Speaking in terms that might almost fit into Black Elk’s vision, Francis goes on:

    Creatures tend towards God, and in turn it is proper to every living being to tend towards other things, so that throughout the universe we can find any number of constant and secretly interwoven relationships. . . . The human person grows more, matures more, and is sanctified more to the extent that he or she enters into relationships, going out from themselves to live in communion with God, with others, and with all creatures.

    Black Elk’s spiritual message culminated in the call to bring all peoples within the sacred hoop, to smoke with them the pipe of peace, and to enjoy the abundance of the tree of life. To think this way is to place limits on our self-centered wills, our desires, and our pleasures, because it means our lives are not about ourselves, but about the family to which we belong.

    The history of the exploitation of the land and of indigenous peoples in this country belongs to, as Ulysses S. Grant put it, avarice – a greed that denied the dignity of people along with the land they held sacred. To see the Black Hills as only a place to pan for gold, drill for oil and gas, or extract money from tourists is to miss what the Lakota know them to be – and to treat the people who cherish them with the same disregard. And to see people as obstacles to success rather than siblings to be cherished is to lose sight of the true relations of things.

    None of us is independent. For our very survival we always stand in need of the support, instruction, and aid of others, that we might, as Black Elk put it, “live together as one being.” Just as we depend on the earth for food, water, and air, we depend on people for the things that are most important to us: beauty, joy, friendship, love. This dependence implies responsibility, for just as we depend upon others, so they depend upon us.

    Black Elk Peak
    Black Elk Peak Photograph courtesy of the author

    Today, if Americans detached from reservation life have any impression of what that life is like, it is likely they will associate it with poverty, unemployment, and addiction. These are realities that reservations do face, just like many rural communities around the country. Like those other out-of-the-way communities, though, reservation towns are more than just the sum of their deficits. The disproportionate effects of these problems on many tribal communities is evidence of the injustices of the past visited upon them. The wounds of that injustice still needs healing, and the sad truth is that, for many Americans, the response is simply a lack of any fraternal care. I think of that old man in Rapid City who felt compelled to stand on a street corner and say a word for Native dignity, a message that is too seldom voiced outside tribal communities, much less heard.
    The Red Cloud Indian School website lists a litany of facts all too familiar to folks on the reservation, but of which many Americans remain largely ignorant. Among these striking figures about Pine Ridge are the following:

    49 percent of residents live below the federal poverty line.
    The infant mortality rate is five times higher than the US national average.
    Obesity, diabetes, and heart disease occur in epidemic proportions.
    Life expectancy is the lowest in the United States – twenty years less than communities just four hundred miles away – and on par with the countries of India, Sudan, and Iraq.
    Yet the story of Pine Ridge is much more than a story about hardship and neglect. “Reservations like mine are hobbled through the singular lens through which they are viewed,” Maka says, a lens defined by “stories of addiction, abuse, and despair.” It is not that these stories aren’t real; it’s that they are reductive. Pine Ridge is not just a place of poverty and struggle, but a community that has its own identity and agency, and one that is “innovative, resistant, and resilient.” Despite the unique challenges a given community might face, “the cycle of our daily lives shows us we have more in common than we care to admit.”

    This is the grounds for being a good neighbor to Native communities, not in a way that caricatures them or paints them as mere objects of philanthropy, but simply as neighbors, as relatives. Maka notes that too often, when indigenous people leave their communities, they encounter a world “that at its worst questions their very existence and at its best views indigenous identity as a carnival sideshow or a fun factoid.” One important way to counteract this is for the public to be better educated and engaged on indigenous culture and history. To “imagine ourselves in relationship” is to take the first steps toward solidarity and reconciliation, rejecting the extremes of neglect or a “savior mentality” to build real bonds of mutual support.

    As Black Elk grew old, he was troubled, not unlike the biblical prophets, by what he had seen among his people. He had been given a task by God, he believed, to save them; and yet he had seen them become victims and doers of violence, he had seen them lose the bison and the traditional ways, he had seen hunger and poverty. In the latter part of his life, he found a new sense of mission in the Catholic faith, and he traveled about the northern plains ministering to, instructing, and giving comfort to people. He did not see this new faith as opposed to Lakota culture and heritage. It has been said by Lakota Catholics that he could pray with the pipe in one hand and the rosary in the other.
    His dim eyes grew sad in those final years, but he never gave up hope for his people or for the reconciliation of all people. He was perhaps a little too hard on himself, too; his life, hidden as it sometimes was, had its incalculably diffusive effects upon the Lakota community and the whole world. His words of prayer and teaching have resonated with Americans ever since they became widely known in the 1930s.

    “The Spirit, infinite bond of love, is intimately present at the very heart of the universe, inspiring and bringing new pathways.” —Pope Francis

    Those words of solidarity are carried on today by many who work in the same spirit, including his descendant, Maka Black Elk. After leaving the reservation for his higher education, Maka returned to bring his gifts to the young people of his community. In pouring into the place that poured into him as a child, Maka’s work is an example of the virtuous cycle of solidarity that runs counter to the cycles of isolation and individualism that hamper human flourishing today. Just this year, he was named executive director of Truth and Healing, a project at Red Cloud with the purpose of seeking reconciliation around the fraught history of the old Catholic boarding schools.

    Maka identifies a crucial obstacle to fulfilling the dream of solidarity between people: the lack of trust. This comes, in part, from dishonesty in leaders, media organizations, and schools. It also comes from the ways in which we build walls against our neighbors. “To open the doors of solidarity,” Maka says, “we have to begin by reckoning with what has divided us.” This means being truthful about the hidden wounds that are the source of our fear and distrust of our neighbors. There is a role that historical education has to play here, but there is a concrete role that community life plays, too. Now is not the time to retreat into defensive formations with the likeminded. This reaction almost inevitably reduces outsiders into something less than human. The solution instead is to become involved in the lives of people near us who are unlike us.

    “Lastly, there is only one important law,” Black Elk wrote to the people of Pine Ridge in 1907, “to love one another; So then, we have always known one basic law that we have heard over and over, that a good man always has the Great Spirit in our hearts toward one another and to be thankful for each other; so for you we are here. We are all related.”
    Last edited by Delight; 1st November 2021 at 17:22.

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    Default Re: The Great Separation?

    Quote Posted by avid (here)
    Billy
    I agree, but for ages it’s always playing ‘devil’s advocate’ interminably. We need folk - plural - but Gracy May has been consistently negative for many months, especially during the Trump fiasco. Is she going to now ‘kowtow’ to the Bidens, or Pelosi-poison? Has she switched allegiances ?
    Dang avid, for the life of me I don’t know how this thread has anything to do with switching of allegiances, I don’t even have any political allegiances as I trust none of the factions involved, and this thread is not even about politics. Although I do grant you, that much of this stuff *is* politicized to a very high degree.

    A highly valued member posted, in a very casual manner, posted a sad truth that the vaxxed will need to be separated from the healthy population at a certain point. *Please re-read the OP* for this vitally important context in why this “divisive” thread was created in the first place.

    So I wondered aloud how many more might agree with this sentiment, and if so, questions on logistics as to how that might be done followed. What I’m essentially getting at, is have you thought this through?

    I won’t apologize questioning such an idea, or asking other such uncomfortable questions, but what really boggles my mind is that the idea itself didn’t raise any eyebrows, but the questioning of it ignited a firestorm.

    I’ve purposely left out my own personal point of view out, but it looks like I had better do so now, it can be seen below. I’m steadfast against any sort of separating “the other”, regardless of which side of the equation suggests it.
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...90#post1459790
    Last edited by Gracy; 1st November 2021 at 19:38.

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