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Thread: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved


    Before Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, there was Alan Turing.

    related:
    • The Imitation Game Official Trailer:




    • 158,962,555,217,826,360,000 (Enigma Machine) - Numberphile:
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 5th November 2021 at 02:01.
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    UK Avalon Member Sérénité's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    If walls could talk...


    Home of Alan Turing - the Enigma machine code-cracking genius - could be yours for £1.1m
    Alan Turing's old home, in Copper Folly, Wilmslow, is back on the market after being sold in 2013
    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-home-20918089

    He has his own bench and statue here:

    https://manchesterhistory.net/manche...es/turing.html

    And a road in his name sake...
    Last edited by Sérénité; 5th November 2021 at 08:43.

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    for curios people ...

    4 days ago I saw this film: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_(2001_film)

    today I check this one : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_Game

    and then ... https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_Game

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Im...geheimes_Leben


    apart from Alan Turing genius there is no way to match film with " historic " "reality "

    every information change several topics : homosexuality yes/no/maybe...

    spy agents : Russian/ Polacks/ others...

    Alan Turing been married : yes/no/later...

    and so on...

    and if you check in different languages ... good luck with that!...

    well, hollywierd calls himself "dreams fabric" the biggest propaganda machine ever!

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    Here's the follow up to the videos in the OP.... that ended with a cliffhanger...

    (many thanks to ExomatrixTV aka John


    The flaw which allowed the Allies to break the Nazi Enigma code.





    one of the comments under vid...


    "I love how the germans and british built these complex encryption machines, but the US just plopped two Navajo indians on two ends of a radio line and no one could figure out what they were saying because no one could speak Navajo, and the only way to get someone who could speak Navajo would be to kidnap a Navajo indian, lol"

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0245562/


    (please check the next post below for link description)
    Last edited by Harmony; 6th November 2021 at 11:46. Reason: adding clarification

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    Argentina Avalon Member Vicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    sorry, I was too speedy... I forget something, my post above is about ...:

    "I love how the germans and british built these complex encryption machines, but the US just plopped two Navajo indians on two ends of a radio line and no one could figure out what they were saying because no one could speak Navajo, and the only way to get someone who could speak Navajo would be to kidnap a Navajo indian, lol"

    posted by Jaybee

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    ...one of the comments under vid...

    "I love how the germans and british built these complex encryption machines, but the US just plopped two Navajo indians on two ends of a radio line and no one could figure out what they were saying because no one could speak Navajo, and the only way to get someone who could speak Navajo would be to kidnap a Navajo indian, lol"
    Not so easy in Europe where people who can usually understand the other languages in the same language group as their own, it wouldn't work over here.

    It was lucky that there were still people who spoke the native languages seeing as just a few decades before there was a cruel and vigorous attempt to wipe out their culture. The Code Talkers also had no official recognition until 1968 and were then given a Certificate of Recognition. Not one of them received a medal until the end of Clinton's administration in December 2000.

    Seems like Alan Turing and the Code Talkers were all treated despicably.

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    ...

    ... well, French used individuals who could "Baragouine" (conversing in "Breton") during the "Indochina war"...

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    ...

    ... as for Alan Turing, he probably was "punished" for being able to throw a wrench into the "elite"/1% communication system...

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    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    ...

    ... well, French used individuals who could "Baragouine" (conversing in "Breton") during the "Indochina war"...
    That's interesting! What I meant though is that within Europe, it wouldn't be feasible as there would likely be someone who knew a particular language even if spoken by a minority population. They'd scour the universities until they found a don who knew the language.

    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    ... as for Alan Turing, he probably was "punished" for being able to throw a wrench into the "elite"/1% communication system...
    However, if the elites were pulling the strings of both sides - we know well about bankers funding both sides - they must have known what Bletchley Park was doing.

    Having been brought up around the homophobic attitudes of the pre-war generations (though I would say that it was most, not all of them) I think it far more likely that he was persecuted for being gay.
    Last edited by Brigantia; 5th November 2021 at 14:14.

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    This stuff has all interested me forever. For the related, but off topic Navaho reference:

    https://www.intelligence.gov/index.p...o-code-talkers
    1942: NAVAJO CODE TALKERS Inventors of the Unbreakable Code
    Every WWII combatant appreciated the need for an unbreakable code that would help them communicate while protecting their operational plans. The U.S. Marines knew where to find one: the Navajo Nation. Marine Corps leadership selected 29 Navajo men, the Navajo Code Talkers, who created a code based on the complex, unwritten Navajo language. The code primarily used word association by assigning a Navajo word to key phrases and military tactics. This system enabled the Code Talkers to translate three lines of English in 20 seconds, not 30 minutes as was common with existing code-breaking machines. The Code Talkers participated in every major Marine operation in the Pacific theater, giving the Marines a critical advantage throughout the war. During the nearly month-long battle for Iwo Jima, for example, six Navajo Code Talker Marines successfully transmitted more than 800 messages without error. Marine leadership noted after the battle that the Code Talkers were critical to the victory at Iwo Jima. At the end of the war, the Navajo Code remained unbroken.

    Read more about Navajo Code Talkers on the web archive's
    copy of a missing CIA web page.

    The Navaho were also betrayed, but the mess is slowly being cleaned up:
    Navajo Nation pushes for radioactive waste remnants to be fully removed by ARLYSSA BECENTI - OCTOBER 22, 2021 6:50 AM

    I first found out about the Navaho Code Talkers from a book by David Kahn called The Codebreakers: The Story Of Secret Writing ages ago.

    I'm not going further off topic.
    The only place a perfect right angle ever CAN be, is the mind.

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    What the Navajo code talkers did and the sacrifices they, too, made in WWII (not to mention before and after) is ineffable. So, too, Turing. But, in my humble opinion, the one cannot be compared to the other.

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)


    "I love how the germans and british built these complex encryption machines, but the US just plopped two Navajo indians on two ends of a radio line and no one could figure out what they were saying because no one could speak Navajo, and the only way to get someone who could speak Navajo would be to kidnap a Navajo indian, lol"
    indeed ...
    • An Unbreakable Code:

    • Thomas H. Begay recalls Navajo Code Talker program; Battle of Iwo Jima

    • Windtalkers Official Trailer HD

    • Navajo Code Talkers of World War II (2018) | Full Movie

    • Native Americans In World War 2 | Code Talkers Documentary:

    • Navajo Code Talkers WW2
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 6th November 2021 at 00:22.
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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    I lived among the Navajo in the Four Corners of the Southwest for nearly three years. I provided free legal service to them while living in Shiprock, New Mexico, and came to know them to a certain extent. They are a proud, caring and ancient people. They are, like all cultures, deserving and worthy of respect.

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    European and British “modern” education systems ( classicist systems) seem to commonly trace their origin to Habsburg dynasty, namely reforms of archduchess and later empress Maria Theresia (1717-1780).
    Though you may say that her reforms were mostly “enlightened”, providing basic education access to every child without discrimination,
    they were created at times of classicist, conservative society who followed rigid dictum of Christian theology.
    So among else, ethical rules and rules of “correct upbringing of child” were encoded, pronounced through education systems since and strictly followed.

    It took another 200 years since to practically eradicate even gender discrimination from schools and universities even while there were exceptions made on behalf of the “weaker gender”, practically speaking : many gymnasiums and universities discriminated against admitting women to higher education levels till the beginning of last century.

    For people of the “era of enlightenment” as known by some historians they still represented significant progress and return or introduction of good manners- correct manner and approach derived from much older , then mostly aristocratic treatises - on social manner and upbringing - as familiarised and practised by French aristocrats for many centuries.

    For “common people” an introduction of good that is correct manner would most certainly mean an uplift and plausible progress in social undertakings of all kind.
    Without “knowing the correct manner” simple people got frequently lost and confused when trying to approach any sort of authority or people of another social class.

    It’s not difficult even to this day to find descendants of common folks who either do not know ( genuinely) or constantly revolt against social norms and good manners suppose their parents, schools and other caretakers did not provide them with a guideline and more importantly, failed to explain its meaning.

    Now coming to the darker side of that era and Theresian education as practised,
    to the “common children” these rules were often imparted in fast manner at the same time they struggled to read and write and those who did not follow the path of higher education in their life but returned to rural lifestyles and arts,
    they became often subsidiary part of social manner- practised only while encountering person of class and authority.

    One of the principles of “classicist education” styles was that children were born “impure” unless baptised and even then, in order to mend their disrespect to given rules had to be punished frequently so their education experiment would turn a success.
    The system - as practised through most classicist education in Europe and Britain to this day - permitted no questioning of the authority - parent or teacher-
    but saw its strength in disciplining the student and punitive actions against every sort of “novelty”, “authenticity” or difference from the collective.

    For this very dark feature, a flaw surviving in the system to this day, it was difficult to include people with physical, mental and other learning disabilities, students who differed were automatically rendered “problematic” and of course, alternative options and schools “for the disabled” were established for them in order to segregate them from the “healthy- read normative- rest”.

    Just reflecting on that part alone : today’s highly civilised and sometimes over educated society still struggle with the same problem, inclusion and exclusion of “divergents”, people with any differential or disability to the system, coercive manner of many teachers and parents who only find easy and appropriate “to follow the norm” and the idea of punishment being a method to render people “just right”.

    What Alan Turing experienced possibly concerns lots of other “genius” and millions of gifted people who could not make it through the “correct education method” for being in disagreement with it from the very beginning.

    The harshness of that approach still found everywhere around us, in political threats and human wars and laws that hurt people and love of everything “hard”, posing cruelty as a reality as a norm,
    twisting millions of little souls to pseudosubmission and eternal revolt and sarcasm in presence of any authority.



    Sorry for the long rant ...yes we all were “righteously beaten” for misbehaviours or opposing our parents in childhood, even as much as touching the table with your wrists when eating 😅 ( don’t do it ever again ) and anything “out of norm” was ridiculed.

    Does it still surprise you that I left that environment when I was 19.

    One thing that made me fall in love with Eastern cultures after experiencing them ( not before) is that they virtually NEVER beat or punish young kids.
    By treating them gently and with respect, the kindness and love gets coded in them in life no matter how many hardships do they get to experience later.



    In reality I wanted to remind you of something like this:


    Panini Grammar and computer science




    May love and freedom prevail


    🙏🧸🙏
    Last edited by Agape; 6th November 2021 at 05:28.

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    Default Re: Alan Turing - Genius Betrayed by the Country He Saved

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    ...

    ... well, French used individuals who could "Baragouine" (conversing in "Breton") during the "Indochina war"...
    That's interesting! What I meant though is that within Europe, it wouldn't be feasible as there would likely be someone who knew a particular language even if spoken by a minority population. They'd scour the universities until they found a don who knew the language.

    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    ... as for Alan Turing, he probably was "punished" for being able to throw a wrench into the "elite"/1% communication system...
    However, if the elites were pulling the strings of both sides - we know well about bankers funding both sides - they must have known what Bletchley Park was doing.

    Having been brought up around the homophobic attitudes of the pre-war generations (though I would say that it was most, not all of them) I think it far more likely that he was persecuted for being gay.
    Alan Turing was caught having sex with another man in a public toilet. His sentence was chemical castration which led to his suicide

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