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    United States Avalon Member mojo's Avatar
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    Default An effective response when being trolled

    There are truly paid shills, so the more you know the better prepared you can be. I've personally failed in the past in this area... so what is the best response?


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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: An effective response when being trolled

    I have used many "counter tactics" to all kinds of trolls ... some trolls are "noble trolls" to anyone who is arrogant or thinks super highly of themselves or act like bullies.
    • be aware that some assumed "bullies" are not really bullies but are perceived as such by snowflakes that interpreted critical thinking as "hate speech".
    Some trolls trolling to help anyone who is the underdog so if some one is bullying someone else trolls loves to jump in ...
    • How you can deal with real nasty trolls?
    Some of my counter-trolling or "out-trolling" the trolls is, commenting back:
    1. "cry more"
    2. "next time be more original ..."
    3. "wake me up when you think you are interesting"
    4. "says the one who thinks he/she is an 'expert' ..." (sarcasm)
    5. "interesting account you have ... so much of you show you have done better than all of us combined" (account showing NOTHING interesting, some have even no content at all).
    6. sarcasm: "amazing insights ... finally some one who is beyond any conditioning" (depends on how obvious someone is heavily conditioned by parroting mainstream media narratives).
    7. cheap name callings (on either side) never ever impressed me!
    8. please try harder ... so that we all can have laugh too
    9. I can go on and on in to infinity ... al depends what is said.
    If you are not sure if you are dealing with a troll or some one who is genuinely misinformed asking way too stupid questions that are full of false assumptions and you can not yet assume he or she "must" be a troll ... I created a question where it does not matter if the answer is "yes or no" as you always have a victory (winning in 'time-management') dealing with (potential/wannabe/possible) trolls:

    Here is a question for suspect trolls you never gonna lose whatever the answer will be:
    • Are you willing to learn something new yes or no?
    If the suspect troll answer is: "yes" ... How much time do you have? ... Then ask the troll to do a Test: I make a case, lets say talking for 10 minutes (or shorter) ... then I ask you to make an honest correct summary of what you have learned and I will do the same for you ... You can talk 10 minutes (or shorter) and make your case (whatever that is) ... Lets see if you are (not only) able to learn something new but also show you CAN actually listen & understand/comprehend what really is said ... You do not have to agree at all with what is said but at least you are honest not (deliberately) misrepresent using straw-man argument framing tactics. Which is super obvious for all neutral observers judging both sides!

    I have done this many times last 20 years with great success on Youtube, PalTalk, Facebook & question time during my 80+ lectures.
    • If the suspect troll answer is: "no" ... am not willing to learn something new.
    You won! (time-management), as you just proved there is absolutely no point of communicating with somebody who admittedly thinks he or she can not learn anything new from you ... this fact alone is a PERFECT moment to repeat that discovery of admission (mark copy paste) his or her own incompetence/failure to have healthy communication-skills.
    • True or False?
    Most trolls totally lack empathy but often "demand" empathy from others about their "point of view" & "conclusions" ... Which is hilarious hypocritical!

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    November 10th, 2021
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 10th November 2021 at 18:40.
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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: An effective response when being trolled

    Misrepresenting any controversial topic is not that difficult to do ... no intelligence necessary ... just have lot of baseless assumptions & insinuations mixed with a little-bit truth just to "convince" your own kind you were "correct"!

    Google-search "strawman argument" troll tactics.

    [QUOTE]Peter Eastick
    Quote : "They come across as arrogant right wing bullys to me." [unquote]


    ~my response:

    Peter Eastick ... "left" "middle" "right" doesn't matter, smart trolls often play a role to instigate & start (in)fights by exaggerations & misrepresentations even deliberately spread provable false "confessions" of the "opposite".

    Or provable false accusations of the "other side" just to lure any moron to fall in the dialectic trap they created in the first place!

    Nothing "is" as it seems with smart trolls!

    You are looking at a careful crafted hall of mirrors and your "interpretation" is part of the anticipated mind-games (mind-fcks). You may find yourself surrounded in a minefield with quicksand at the edges where you thought you could escape from the madness.

    The moment you use ANY generalization or labels on "the other" you are actually helping the trolls to make it worse for the "neutral" observers, trying to learn something new (which should be the bases of healthy & constructive discussions & exchange of ideas).

    Main goal is: endless distractions of the original intent of the (often creative intelligent) poster.

    Envy? Jealousy? Insecure types? Escapism? They can't handle the truth? or "Just only fun" ... You tell me what motives could be applied, because I know their could be many more reasons like: payed government shills or revenge (personal vendettas) or psychological warfare etc.

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    November 10th, 2021

    --o-O-o--

    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 10th November 2021 at 15:48.
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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: An effective response when being trolled

    There are two things to keep in mind about trolls:

    1) They don't want to talk about the topic at hand. They want to talk about you, or themselves.
    2) It's never too late to call out a troll. Even after you are five or more responses into the thread when you finally realized that you've been suckered, you may be incline to stick with it out of some misplaced pride or anger. Don't. You can't win debating a troll. All you can do is lower yourself to their level.

    Tools for trolls

    #1) Name-calling and ridicule: That doesn't mean just calling people names. The objective is to goad other people in the debate to start name-calling. That means use baseless caricatures and stereotypes, generally directed at the author, to get an emotional response. Appeal to people's prejudices and fears.
    #2) Play Dumb: You are immune to facts, and all news sources are suspect. Even common sense logic is to be questioned.
    #3) Demand complete and fool-proof solutions to the problems: How can you bother other people with these problems unless you also have the solutions? And not just any solutions, but solutions that have been scientifically tested and work. What? You aren't an expert in the field? Then why should we care what you say? This method is most effective when the proof you demand is impossible.
    #4) Build and Destroy a Strawman: Create the elements of your opponents arguments, as you define them, and then tear them down. [This is one of my favorites]
    #5) When in doubt, declare victory!: You have no idea what the debate is actually about, and all your other debating methods have failed. So why no celebrate? After all, it's all about you.
    #6) It's hopeless, so why try?: Nothing can ever change. We are all doomed. The powers-that-be will always win. [This appears to be a recent favorite on the internet, and obviously the most useful for maintaining the status quo]
    #7) It's old news: Never mind that the newspapers seem to care for some reason, anyone who's been paying attention had to know that this has been going on forever. [This is related to #6 and #4]
    #8) Suggest extreme solutions: The government did something wrong? Then let's get rid of the government! Kids are having trouble in schools? Then public schools must go!
    #9) Wax indignant: (aka "How dare you!") Obviously if someone said something you didn't like then you should take it personally because it was meant to offend you.
    #10) Shout down others: This is accomplished by posting a bunch of messages before your opponent has a chance to respond. You can do this because you have more time on your hands than most people.
    #11) Army of sock puppets: This method depends on your resources. It's extremely effective. If you are a government agency or a corporation, then this method may have the most bang for the buck.
    #12) Hit and Run: You won't stop debate with this method, but you sure can disrupt it. This method is most effective when used with #1.
    #13) Question motives: This is an oldie but a goodie. Obviously if someone wants to call attention to something then they have something to hide, and it is your duty to expose it. What sort of partisan agenda is he/she pushing anyway?
    #14) Invoke Authority: You are an expert on the subject, and these accusations are nothing more than wild rumors and conspiracy theories.
    #15) Demand that they solve the crime: Why should we get excited over this unless we know every single detail? After all, this is an extremely complex situation and difficult to understand.
    #16) Come half-clean: By admitting to unimportant facts then you can appear to be completely honest. [This is a last-resort method]
    #17) Make **** up: Another oldie-but-goodie. If you demand your opponent prove things wrong then he/she isn't able to focus on the topic at hand. It doesn't matter if your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic. Plus, if they are unable or unwilling to spend the time disproving your BS, you can say that you have "proven" their arguments to be false and go declare victory.
    #18) Make even the slightest mistake something important: If you opponent makes a typo or isn't clear about something, then obviously they have no credibility. If the newspaper they are sourcing once made a mistake, or is from another country, then they can't be trusted.
    There probably is more methods that I am forgetting, but these are the primary ones. If you think of others, please put them in the comments so that I may add them to the list.
    Several people have pointed out that many of these methods are a) commonly used tools to "blow up a troll", b) that can be used for non-troll activities, and c) sometimes get used by good people on an off-day.
    This is all true.

    I'm not trying to say that if someone uses any of these methods that they are automatically an evil troll. I'm saying that evil trolls almost always use these methods.
    One does not automatically mean the other.

    The purpose of my listing these methods is so that if you find yourself in a debate with someone who is quickly pissing you off that you should take a step back and think if you recognize his/her debating methods that I listed above as troll-like. If the answer is "yes", then you are safe to call them out as a troll and walk away.
    This is a much better outcome then uselessly getting down in the mud with the troll where no good can come from it.

    There are two other suggestions in the comments:
    #19) Concern Troll: This is more of a political tactic than a debating one, although it can be used for both.
    #20) Blog Nanny Patrol: I'm going to admit that I'm not exactly sure what this is.

    --o-O-o--
    • Trolls & Pseudo Skeptics lost me, the moment they generalize & exaggerate same goes for anyone else doing that!
    Cheap name callings (on either side) never ever impressed me!
    Leads nowhere only use is to scare away neutral people asking genuine questions. Main mission is to pollute the discussion with childish spoiled brat behavior making it total uninteresting for real genuine researchers.
    • Message to all pseudo skeptics & wannabe trolls:
    I will give credits & proper respect if you are original & found inaccuracies without using exaggerations.

    But can you use your intelligence also to see what is important? No? ... Then you are not that intelligent as you are seeing (metaphorical speaking) specks of dirt you found on a Rembrandt painting and want to clean it up with a steel-brush destroying the whole painting. It is called having a "selective nitpicking syndrome" the only cure is having a big laugh at yourself

    "outtroll the trolls" is my mission, and can prove it works most of the time, with basics like: stay in self-honesty, be transparent, take yourself not to seriously, allow them to score as well if they make good points, be aware not all trolls are necessarily bad, some trolls love to psychologically test you.

    Have compassion for the trolls they need as much love as anyone else. Learn to love them as a learning tool, give them a hug if they get mad, give them credits if they are really funny & original etc. etc.

    ... but most of all have fun with them that's what most of them dislike the most.
    It is NOT about you being responsible for their actions & abuse ... it is you exposing them for what they are (and decide to MOVE ON with dignity) you can win the debate faster that way... Real sophisticated trolls play a role to temporary "fit in" and slowly derail everything you hold dear! ... They have multiple tactics ... some can "play nice" for a long time like wolf in sheep-clothing.

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    November 10th, 2021
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 10th November 2021 at 15:23.
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    Lightbulb Re: An effective response when being trolled

    • A troll is a special class of sociopath.
    These nasty individuals are the sadistic ne'er-do-wells of the digital realm, the misanthropic misfits of information age. Unlike a normal person, when a troll enters an online discussion, he is not seeking truth or clarification. He usually doesn't even know how to debate in an intelligent manner. All he wants to do is inflict pain, ridicule, and humiliation on a targeted person.



    Encountering an internet troll can be a disturbing, even frightening, experience for someone who has not had to deal with one. It can be an unexpected event, a strange twist that takes the discussion to a whole other level. You are taken off guard and find yourself struggling to defend yourself, instead of exploring a topic.
    You're posting comments on a blog, forum, or social media platform like Facebook or Twitter. There are probably other people expressing themselves, some agreeing with you and cheering you on, others disagreeing with you and trying to debunk your assertions. The conversation is heated, or passionate, but civilized. Strong opinions are stated and countered with other strident points of view.

    Suddenly, someone, usually anonymous or using a nickname (pseudonym), starts attacking you. They may use filthy language, wild insults, and crazy misinterpretations. Often they will put words in your mouth, along the lines of "So what you're saying is...." or "Nutjobs like you are only interested in ...."

    The main tool of the troll is accusation. It's a form of psychological torture, to break you down by turning your words against you, twisting your statements and pounding away at one aspect of your viewpoint. No matter what you declare, the troll will question you as a person. Understand this immediately: it's you as a person that they are attacking.
    Personal attacks are often banned in forums, and not tolerated in blogs and social networks. Administrators tend to block and remove anyone who engages in trollish behavior.

    The troll doesn't care. Trolls don't follow the rules or terms of service. They jump from one platform and one conversation thread to another, causing as much damage as possible. If they get kicked off a site, they'll try to return, using a different username or a different computer.

    Trolls are easy to recognize by their mode of operation. They will never compliment you for a smart statement, or admit that your question is difficult to respond to, or tone down the rhetoric with a smiley emoticon.
    Trolls accuse and insult. Trolls needle you relentlessly. They love to flame others. They enjoy causing grief, making another person feel bad. Trolls will quickly move from serious discussion about an issue to a sustained personal assault.
    The goal of a troll is to disrupt an online discussion, picking on one person, or on everyone who expresses a particular point of view. Trolls will also invade a presentation on a live videoconferencing channel or an audio podcast where people can phone in and ask the presenter questions.

    Recently I encountered my first audio troll on my internet radio broadcast on BlogTalkRadio. My topic just happened to be dealing with trolls.

    Someone called into my online studio and I connected him to my show. Immediately, instead of thanking me for taking his call, he started accusing me.
    "You haven't mentioned the intelligent troll. Why is that?" he asked, all pompous, with a deep professorial voice. I replied, "There is no such thing as an intelligent troll, sir. That's a contradiction, an oxymoron, an impossibility."

    I let him pester me for several minutes, mainly to demonstrate to my audience how the guy was a troll, how he behaved, and how to mess with a troll. I kept hammering away at how an intelligent person doesn't pick fights with people just for a sadistic thrill. He kept trying to advance the idea that intelligent trolls exist and should be respected for their high IQ. I set a trap for him. I asked, "Do you consider yourself an intelligent troll?" He replied, "I think there's a little troll in everyone."

    I cut the troll off by saying, "Well if you have anything more to say about the alleged intelligent troll, go ahead and say it, otherwise, I'm going to return to the topic of my show." He started to mumble another accusation about how I refuse to acknowledge the "intelligent troll" and I hung up on him in mid-sentence.

    This brings me to the issue of how to defeat a troll. Here are a few quick pointers on troll-smashing that you may want to copy and paste into a text editor, print out, and tape to your computer monitor for future reference.

    (1) Ignore the troll. Just refuse to interact with him. Respond to others in an online discussion, but shun the troll and give no reply to any of his accusations or remarks.
    (2) Post "don't feed the trolls" in the debate thread and leave the conversation. Let others deal with him if they want. Just identify the troublemaker as a troll and move on to other websites or activities. If a person is trolling you via email, just stop opening and reading their messages. If you can blacklist them to prevent them from sending you emails, do that. If it's on Facebook, block -- don't just unfriend, but block – the person and if necessary, report him as abusive.

    (3) Keep hammering away at your viewpoint, harden yourself like steel, and never give in. If you want to disturb the troll for a short while, just to give him a taste of his own medicine, you can relentlessly restate your opinion, in complete oblivion to anything the troll says, like you're not even reading his remarks.

    (4) Misinterpret his statements. This is a very effective technique for derailing a troll and making them upset. You may even provoke the troll to give up and leave the conversation thread. Twist what they say and make it seem like the troll is agreeing with you. "I agree. Thanks for seeing my viewpoint. We seem to be on the same page now. That's exactly right. Glad I was able to convert you to my opinion."

    (5) Praise the troll in a facetious way that translates into not-so-subtle rebuke. "Oh my, you are so incredibly well informed. You are the smartest person in the whole universe and everyone should sit at your feet and soak up your wisdom. Nobody can argue with you, for you have all the answers." Then sign off and leave the discussion with "You sad and silly troll."

    Remember that the only purpose of a troll is to antagonize and cause trouble. There is no point in trying to reason with a troll. Generally, they are not educated in debate or rhetorical skills. All they want to do is hurl slurs and incriminations. They want to make you angry, upset, confused, and exasperated. They want to take over the conversation and reframe it as an analysis of how bad or stupid you supposedly are.

    Trolls may have been victimized by a mind control cult based on humiliating people to cause them to go into meltdown mode, so they can replace a personality with their cult's indoctrination. Other times you may suspect that a troll has been abused by a rogue psychiatrist who was keen on dismantling a person's inner self and then manipulating the defenseless victim.

    No matter what their origin may be, trolls enjoy raining on parades, maliciously pouncing on innocent people, and acting like a verbal predator. Trolling can turn into cyberstalking and cyberbullying (intent to cause serious harm or even suicide).

    Learn how to quickly recognize a troll and you've won half the battle.
    Mess with them briefly to expose their true nature to others in the audience or the discussion, then kick them to the curb by leaving the conversation. If necessary, report the troll to an administrator.

    in short: Trolls hate if you beat them with (smarter/funnier) sarcasm ... as it takes intelligence to decipher what you are actually doing

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    November 10th, 2021




    • The purpose of a troll is not to intelligently discuss various issues but to minimize the importance of dissenting opinions by ridiculing serious participants expressing views the troll finds objectionable.

    Criteria for helping to identify a professional troll:

    1) The person’s posts are usually short and snarky, with reasonably correct spelling, grammar and punctuation, suggesting both intelligence and education.

    2) The posts are on the edge of acceptability, with little or no profanity or vulgar language that would get the post flagged immediately.

    3) The person’s posts are consistently belittling, rather than intelligent objections and points.

    So, you will know them by their fruits.


    --o-O-o--

    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 10th November 2021 at 17:33.
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    Lightbulb Re: An effective response when being trolled

    • One of the most important (mental/psychological) defense against any troll is knowing exactly what gaslighting is ... how that works ...and why it works so fast with sensitive people!
    If you feel incompetent dealing with all kinds of baseless accusations & insinuations as ANY attempt to debunk or to rebuttal or to expose or to "clear up misunderstandings" or trying to explain what you really meant/mean or any other form of clarification of any matter TO THEM they see a victory as you took the bait. After you defending yourself, they will come back with 3 times more false accusations / deliberate misrepresentations / framing which will take way too much time to make your point.

    How you see yourself is KEY how you feel about yourself ... and if you have had a long history of people misunderstanding you and judge accordingly ... trolls could easily trigger you to feel bad about yourself often NOT knowing where this feeling originates from. (=>>> like bad (traumatic) experiences in your past?

    Goodhearted, loving, well-meaning & kind people most of the time do not want to assume that some one has real bad intentions posing as "good" ... All kinds of stories in their heads why they think "he or she means well" at the same time they trick you and laugh at you how gullible, easy to manipulate you feeling bad about yourself.

    This tactic is like a psychological mirror (projection) to them as THEY are the ones who actually feel bad about themselves and need to compensate that with endless lies (to themselves & others).

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    November 10th, 2021

    • 3 Fail-Safe Strategies To Defend Yourself Against Gaslighting Behavior
    • How to defend yourself against gaslighting: a form of manipulation that can make you question everything you know to be true
    • Gaslighting: Seven Ways to Protect Yourself

    • How To Defend Yourself Against Gaslighting:



    Steps to Take by Yourself:
    1. Spot the signs. Gaslighting can involve many different kinds of behavior. Your partner may make false accusations or tell you that you’re overreacting. They may distort reality and challenge your faith in yourself.
    2. Accept your feelings. It’s important to remember that your emotions are natural and valid, especially if your partner tends to dismiss them. Practice observing and identifying your feelings without making judgments.
    3. Gather documentation. If you think your partner is frequently inaccurate or deceptive, keep track of events yourself. You may want to write in a journal or save text messages and other communications.
    4. Stay connected. Does your partner try to isolate you from family and friends? Maintain regular contact so you’ll have a strong support network.
    5. Evaluate your options. You need to decide if any relationship is healthy for you. Your partner may be willing and able to change. Otherwise, think about what you want for your future.
    6. Build your confidence. Believe in yourself and your abilities. Review your achievements and set meaningful goals. Stand up tall and smile.
    Steps to Take with Your Partner:
    1. Address the issue. Let your partner know when you feel like you’re being treated unfairly. Advocate for yourself directly and respectfully. State your position and stand firm.
    2. Slow down. You’ll be more effective if you can stay calm. Pause if you need time to consider your response. Speak slowly and quietly.
    3. Set limits. Your partner may become defensive or try to change the subject. Tell them that you need to resolve this issue. Try to set healthy boundaries and negotiate conditions that will help both of you to feel understood.
    4. Apologize selectively. Do you apologize just to avoid conflicts?
    5. Train yourself to save your regrets for situations where you really are at fault. Be consistent so your partner will know what to expect.
    6. Act independently. Gaslighting usually occurs when one partner feels significantly less powerful than the other. In reality, you are probably more capable than you think. Take control of your life by strengthening your finances and developing greater resilience.
    7. Show empathy. It may help to know that gaslighting says more about your partner than it does about you. It could be the only way they know how to deal with stress or a way to hide their own insecurities. You can love them without approving of their behavior.
    8. Seek counseling. A therapist who specializes in relationships may be able to help you turn things around. Invite your partner to join you or go on your own.
    If you’re concerned about patterns in your relationship that make you doubt yourself, you could be the victim of gaslighting. Stand up for yourself and talk with your partner. You may be able to settle your differences more constructively.
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 11th November 2021 at 23:17.
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