Dr. Pierre Kory

[PurpleLama]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
Ah, I must strongly recommend perusing some of the (long) twitter threads of this data scientist:

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexandrosM

It appears that the people who are spearheading the anti-ivermectin as covid therapeutic narrative are not operating in good faith, at all. Please take some time to be advised of what is really going on with this.

This person has investigates the retraction of Dr. Kory's paper, and posted the results on twitter.

Note, this is the first post of a thread, you will have to follow the link to read it all.

[AutumnW]

Purple Llama,

Relying exclusively on Kory's own word, as explanation, allows him to be judge and jury of himself. Put another way, it becomes a matter of faith and his proponents become adherents and the FLCCC, no better than a cult.

[PurpleLama]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Purple Llama,

Relying exclusively on Kory's own word, as explanation, allows him to be judge and jury of himself. Put another way, it becomes a matter of faith and his proponents become adherents and the FLCCC, no better than a cult.

The @alexandrosM thread does not rely on Dr. Kory's own word, so to speak. It not a very long thread (so please read it), it ends with him pointing out that the supposed reasoning for the retraction was actually acknowledged in the paper, itself. My hypotheses that this will turn out to be another covid-political stunt seems to be bearing out.

[AutumnW]

I've read enough of Alex's posts to appreciate he is an FLCCC adherent, without a science background. You have to understand that I was rabidly pro ivermectin until I looked into some of their statistical aberrations and charts that Kory was using to back up his claims.

It was confusing, I thought I had to be mistaken, a nitpicker, or not seeing what I should be seeing, because I trusted Chris Martenson and those he trusted.

Now, sadly, I realize none of them are devoid of ego and in Martenson's case, not above exaggerating and twisting stats to confirm his thesis. Its been a constant moving of goal posts. And though it has all taken place within a rapidly evolving viral situation, that doesn't explain it all of the goal post migrations! It has been really difficult as I was a member of his forum for 14 years and considered him a friend. But...live and learn!

But hey, thanks for putting that info together!

[jaybee]

Posted by indigopete (here)

[snip]

Of course they're not. There's not a snowball's hope in hell of therapies being formally shown to work. There is FAR too much at stake. If ever there was an inpartial large scale study that demonstrated significant performance of these therapies then:

1. bang goes your emergency use authorisation
2. and then the vaccine rollout with it
3. and the digital biometric IDs with that
4. and the CBDCs with that
5. which would pull the rug out from under the entire Great Reset agenda

[snip]

that's it in a nutshell....

those pushing the pandemic hoax + 'vaccine' roll out and moving Western Nations into an authoritarian nightmare - don't care how many people die through lack of proper treatment that utilizes cheap effective drugs like Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine - in fact they want as many deaths as possible to hype up the fear mongering - such is their lack of empathy and humanity...

the whole situation is beyond crazy but this is what we have to deal with and live with at the moment...

[jaybee]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
More specifically to the topic of the thread, Dr. Kory has begun his response to the retraction here.

You might want to catch it soon, these days the censorship is a real problem.

Just in case... I've copied and pasted the 8 part response -

Dr Pierre Kory said...

Thread re: retraction of the FLCCC paper from the Journal of Intensive Care Medicine
It is unfortunate that JICM retracted an entire paper based on their refusal to accept an update to 1 section of data that had little relevance to the focus or conclusions of the paper (1/8)

This was a comprehensive paper - 13 sections, nearly 200 scientific references detailing the science behind each MATH+ element of the 2020 protocol. The data in question was in 1 section and WAS ACCURATE when we originally submitted- i.e. a 6% COVID mortality at Sentara (2/8)

After peer-review & publication, a very unusual request came to us from JICM. Sentara Hospital asked the journal that the paper be updated with longer-term follow up data calculated differently (they never said our original data was inaccurate). (3/8)

Using Sentara's method, they came up with a 10% mortality - STILL FAR LESS than the 23% U.S hospital mortality average average we were loosely comparing it to. (4/8)

Best part: Sentara, in their ignorance, tried to call out the 28% mortality of patients who got all components of MATH+ as if it was a bad thing - without realizing those were ICU patients at a time when U.S institutions were reporting UP TO AN 88% MORTALITY in the ICU (5/8)

We then provided the only follow-up data we had - JICM refused to accept. We then offered to retract the entire section with the old Sentara data - JICM refused. The conclusion of the paper (it was a RATIONALE paper) still stands without the Sentara data even being included. 6/8

This action by the journal puts the FLCCC again on the growing list of scientists whose peer reviewed manuscripts on repurposed drugs have been retracted by editors throughout the pandemic (after passing peer review!). (7/8)

If medical research is there just to serve in supporting mainstream collective thinking and censor those who might have alternative approaches or differing interpretations, the future of medicine will be very dark. (8/8)

[end]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hospitals - doctors - pharmacies - etc (throughout the world) are all being pressurized in various ways to collude with the twisted Official Narrative - it's a sorry state of affairs -

[Billy Vasiliadis]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

This person has investigates the retraction of Dr. Kory's paper, and posted the results on twitter.

Note, this is the first post of a thread, you will have to follow the link to read it all.

This unfortunately didn't resolve this whole issue for me. It still isn't clear, from the 191 patients at Sentara, who got what and who was in the ICU or not.

The retraction notice should have been more detailed, it leaves open many questions. If you are going to make a retraction I'd have thought the reasons for doing so would be explained more clearly. There shouldn't be this guessing.

I'm not convinced that the FLCCC manipulated the data from what has been provided so far. Going to need more than this.

I will say this. I'm open to the idea that Ivermectin has been oversold and that it isn't a miracle drug. I do believe it works, based off of some of the turnarounds some have made when starting on it. I'm thinking the focus really should be on holistic treatment and not any one therapy. Which, to be fair, doctors like Peter McCullough have been saying for a long time now.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kory and others have exaggerated some things, but again, I haven't seen anything so far which is worthy of dismissing them and their message all together. Even if Ivermectin and the protocols only work half as well as they are said to, that is still worth listening to and implementing IMO.

[PurpleLama]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I've read enough of Alex's posts to appreciate he is an FLCCC adherent, without a science background. You have to understand that I was rabidly pro ivermectin until I looked into some of their statistical aberrations and charts that Kory was using to back up his claims.

It was confusing, I thought I had to be mistaken, a nitpicker, or not seeing what I should be seeing, because I trusted Chris Martenson and those he trusted.

Now, sadly, I realize none of them are devoid of ego and in Martenson's case, not above exaggerating and twisting stats to confirm his thesis. Its been a constant moving of goal posts. And though it has all taken place within a rapidly evolving viral situation, that doesn't explain it all of the goal post migrations! It has been really difficult as I was a member of his forum for 14 years and considered him a friend. But...live and learn!

But hey, thanks for putting that info together!

@alexandrosM is actually a neutral operative who is trying to inject sense making into the covid treatment contraversies. Like I said he is a data scientist, one whe deals with logic and sense making in complex systems. He is not a medical doctor, no, but he is a scientist. I forget what he said his actual degrees were in, but when I come across those details I will provide them. I have listened to a lot of live conversations he has had with other scientists on these and other topics, and in my view he is a genuine person trying to parse out a very complex issue. I brought his material into this thread precisely because I knew this to be the case. While it is important to see both sides of a story, it can be even more important to bring in neutral third party observers who are inclined to go through source materials and extract the pertinent details for laymen such as ourselves.

I am only vaguely aware of Chris Martenson, and I have not read anything he has said about these subjects.

[PurpleLama]

Ok, so Dr. Marik is head of the ICU at the Sentara hospital. The administration had ordered its doctors to discontinue the MATH+ protocols, and he filed a lawsuit against the hospital. Then the hospital approached the JICM to have the paper retracted, which would help the case of the hospital.

[Pam]

Posted by Billy Vasiliadis (here)

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

This person has investigates the retraction of Dr. Kory's paper, and posted the results on twitter.

Note, this is the first post of a thread, you will have to follow the link to read it all.

This unfortunately didn't resolve this whole issue for me. It still isn't clear, from the 191 patients at Sentara, who got what and who was in the ICU or not.

The retraction notice should have been more detailed, it leaves open many questions. If you are going to make a retraction I'd have thought the reasons for doing so would be explained more clearly. There shouldn't be this guessing.

I'm not convinced that the FLCCC manipulated the data from what has been provided so far. Going to need more than this.

I will say this. I'm open to the idea that Ivermectin has been oversold and that it isn't a miracle drug. I do believe it works, based off of some of the turnarounds some have made when starting on it. I'm thinking the focus really should be on holistic treatment and not any one therapy. Which, to be fair, doctors like Peter McCullough have been saying for a long time now.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kory and others have exaggerated some things, but again, I haven't seen anything so far which is worthy of dismissing them and their message all together. Even if Ivermectin and the protocols only work half as well as they are said to, that is still worth listening to and implementing IMO.

Good points made. There are so many variables that can come into play besides the Ivermectin protocol. Think of the possibility of outcomes if we have 2 people following the protocol and have the same symptoms and are similar in other aspects. One of them lays in bed non stop, survives on diet coke and junk food, doesn't make any effort to practice any type of breathing technique to benefit the lungs. He doesn't even move much in his bed. While in bed he has been obsessing about a recent breakup and has a lot of resentment. Person 2 makes sure to stay well hydrated with clean water, eats nutritional food that is tolerable for the condition, practices deep breathing techniques to benefit the lungs and gets up and moves about as tolerated. When feeling up to it practices meditation.

I don't think it would be surprising if their outcomes were different. I could have added more details to a holistic approach, but I do agree that treating Ivermectin, or that any combined drug intervention as the be all end all is not enough. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it is the body that heals itself, all we can do is provide it the best opportunity to do that.

[Vangelo]

Posted by Pam (here)
... Think of the possibility of outcomes if we have 2 people following the protocol and have the same symptoms and are similar in other aspects...

Something similar happened with me and it is how I learned of Ivermectin.

I was chatting with a woman I work with before our weekly, online status call. She was very upset because her son (away at college) called that morning and was sick. His symptoms lined up perfectly with Covid and his roommate was in the same state.

The following week she told me that her son and roommate were enrolled in a study and were given an experimental medicine.

The next week, she reported her son was fine but his roommate was very sick and in the hospital.

We did not discuss her son's experience for a couple of months or so. Then someone who normally attends our online meeting was absent because they got covid. This reminded me to ask her about her son and the study. It turned out that her son was given Ivermectin and his roommate was not. The roommate eventually got better.

That was all I needed to hear and I purchased Ivermectin (this was a year ago) after I found an online doctor to prescribe it.

[Bill Ryan]

A very personal and poignant article by Dr Pierre Kory, published today:

• https://brownstone.org/articles/satu...t-the-pharmacy

Saturday Night Fights at the Pharmacy

I am exhausted: physically, emotionally, and morally. Although I am not sure moral exhaustion is “a thing,” the daily witnessing of masses of physicians and pharmacists abandoning their core responsibility of placing the welfare of the patient as their primary consideration.. is beyond wearying.

In the United States of Pharma, individual docs and pharmacists have been led so far astray, forgivably or unforgivably, due to the relentless barrage of dis-information targeted at them by the federal pharmaceutical regulators (further supported by relentless, daily propaganda appearing in both major media and medical journals).

Let us be clear about the rule and tradition. In the US, doctors are permitted to prescribe any medicine that has been approved by the FDA, even for indications the medicine was not originally approved for. Such “off-label” prescribing is both legal and historically encouraged by the FDA.

Pharmacies are there to fill prescriptions, and in only rare circumstances and in only a handful of states do they have the right to refuse to fill a valid prescription.

Otherwise, what medicines are deployed, for whom, and for what purpose, is a matter between patient and doctor. This is the long-standing rule.

This principle has been violated now for almost two years. It has created a labyrinth of confusion over basic and well-tested therapies for dealing with a virus that can be very serious for many.

It is no longer the case that any doctor can depend on any pharmacist to distribute safe and effective medicines. They are very likely now to say no and they do so as a result of having been been unfairly intimidated by the threatening memos issued by federal agencies and the state medical and pharmacy boards, These reprehensible cations are just the latest salvo in the pharmaceutical industry’s decades-long war on off-patent, repurposed medicines.

What prompts me to write this was my most recent failure (and the resulting distress that led to terrible sleep last night) over not being able to get a pharmacist to fill my orders in the hours prior to closing of pharmacies for an acutely ill COVID patient that had contacted me reporting high fevers, sore throat, and body aches.

I immediately wanted to start him on a short course combination regimen of three, old, safe, cheap generic medications, all with large clinical trials evidence bases showing high efficacy against COVID (ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, fluvoxamine).

What is important to note is that, months ago I stopped trying to contact ANY pharmacy unless I KNEW they would fill my scripts for these off-patients medications because unless I knew a pharmacy was “safe”, I ran a high probability of entering an un-affordably time-wasting and ultimately losing argument with some smug, obstinate pharmacist.

As a result, we early treatment docs have long since been forced to build lists of “safe haven” pharmacies where we know we can easily get access to these medicines for our patients.

However, last night, I was inspired to make an attempt on a new, unknown pharmacy on behalf of my new patient as I had just read Steve Kirsch’s substack about my colleague and early COVID-treatment pioneer/expert Dr. Brian Tyson, in which was included the letter written by Dr. Brian Tyson’s attorney (also with the last name Tyson) that was used to “sway” a local pharmacy that had suddenly refused to fill.

The letter is thorough , deeply well-argued, and informs the pharmacists that they are; 1) violating the civil rights of patients, 2) interfering with a physician’s ability to practice medicine and 3) exhibiting behavior that constitutes the unlicensed and negligent practice of medicine.

Now, I had argued all these points before in previous “conflicts” with pharmacists, but never all at the same time, and rarely threatening a lawsuit. Duly and newly emboldened.. I made the call.

4:20 Pacific time (pharmacies close there at 6pm).

Transcript (from memory):

“Hi, I’d like to call in a prescription for a couple of patients.”

“OK, what’s the first patient's name and date of birth?”

“Timothy Thomas (not his real name), born Nov. 6th, 1977.”

(pause, clacking of keyboard)

“OK, what does he need?”

(Wait for it)

“He needs ivermectin, 3 milligram tablets, I want him to take 15 each day as he is a big guy, and for 5 days with a refill. Then he needs, hydroxychloro…

“Doctor, I am sorry but I cannot fill the ivermectin. The owner has said we are not to fill for COVID, there is no evidence it works.”

“Listen, I don’t know who the owner is but you are the pharmacist on duty, and I am calling in a prescription to you, not the owner.”

“I,I, I am sorry but I can’t..”

I look at the letter, and then start spewing rapid fire arguments at him, “well unfortunately for you, my patient is an executive of a company and their lawyer is prepared to and will send a letter of intent to sue if it has not been filled because you are violating his civil rights, blocking my licensed ability to practice medicine and care for my sick patient, and you are clearly practicing medicine illegally and highly ignorantly. You should at least know what you are doing if you are going to do it without a license man.”

“But I am allowed to refuse, doctor.”

“That is what you think and what you have been told… But, I can promise you, that when you bring your arguments up in court as to why you refused, they will not hold up if any harm comes to my patient by your refusal. They will NOT HOLD UP, but you can try. The lawyer will serve the letter on Monday, I promise you, we are fed up out here and are fighting back, all of my fellow physicians being blocked by pharmacists are now using legal action (OK, so I overstated things a bit), I am sorry you are in the position you are in, but you have no rational or scientific evidence to support a refusal, but if you want to go to court to find out, we can make that happen for you”

“I..I.. feel intimidated.”

“Well, I am sorry for that, but you are hurting my patient and my ability to care for them. It is THEY who YOU are intimidating Sir. All you have to do is take my script, fill it, and we don’t have to go on like this. These medications are FDA approved, I am using them off-label based on a large body of evidence and experience in COVID, and off label prescribing is both legal and historically encouraged by the FDA. You are clearly practicing medicine and I promise that will be proven to you in a court of law. Please just fill it and you wont have to hear from me or my patient again.”

(Pause, silence)

“I cannot do it, I am not supposed to.”

“OK then, I will also remind you that you are legally required to provide me your name and license number as we will be pursuing legal action against you.”

“I am not giving you my name, I am not comfortable with that.”

“OK, so you think I can’t find it out? Fine, I am also documenting this refusal. Again, I am not interested in a contentious argument, I am asking you simply to fill the prescriptions for two sick patients who need my help, and if you do, you won’t have to hear from me or the patient’s lawyer.”

He whispers.. “OK, tell me the rest of the prescriptions.”

I tell him the rest, then say, “my patient will be there by closing time, thank you and I apologize for my tone but I am just trying to do the best for my sick patients.”
Victory? Yes! Haven’t won one of these in months.

I finish telling him the rest of the scripts for my patient and his wife (I also needed to call in medicines for her so she could have some on hand and also begin ivermectin as a prophylactic agent given it ensures an easier course even if she is already or eventually becomes infected).

I then happily call the patient, tell him to get his wife to pick up the medicines along with the other over-the-counter compounds that have clinical trials supporting their use. And then I go to the couch to literally lay down (insane day of dozens of patient care requests, other zooms and phone calls, maybe 12+ hours on the phone).

30 minutes later.. patients texts me.. my wife went there and the pharmacist won’t fill.

Now, despite the fact that I co-wrote a document with Executive Director Kelly Bumann of the FLCCC and Unity Project Founder Jeff Hanson, called “Overcoming the Barriers to Access,” which is a document full of sound, pragmatic tactics and dialogue examples offered to patients (and docs) in order to help them navigate such pharmacist obstructions, they typically will not work when it is an hour before closing on a weekend.

So, here I am the next morning. Fortunately I was able to get two of the medicines filled through another pharmacy, with enough for his wife as she unsurprisingly fell ill overnight (omicron moves fast). Unfortunately, they will have to wait until tomorrow to get the third medicine from a “friendly” or “underground” pharmacy (not really underground but you get the analogy).

This is what it is like out here trying to fight for patients sick with COVID – widespread delays in care as blocking access to generic or “repurposed” medicines by ignorant/arrogant pharmacists is ubiquitous. The majority of pharmacists (not all!) have simply stopped thinking critically or devoting effort to review the evidence base, instead simply believing what they are told by their Boards (a.k.a. their “Ministries of Truth”). As if the insane numbers of ill omicron patients to care for is not challenging enough.

In the words of Louisiana Attorney General Jeff Landry, who went after his state’s Pharmacy Board when they tried to scare the states pharmacists away from prescribing ivermectin by sending them threatening letters, “it is shocking that pharmacists are suddenly developing a conscience after spending the last decade handing out opiates like they were M & M’s”.

Well said and tragically absurd.

This newfound conscience influencing such actions is likely further fueled by a sometime resident psychology of pharmacists who may feel “less than” a physician given their limited scope of patient care tasks.

Emboldened by a seemingly legal opportunity to assert superiority and control over physicians, many find these irresistible. Consequently,they seem to be “getting off” from telling the “stupid” doctors that the Ministry of Truth has done the research for them and the Ministry has found, that in the name of science, doctors should stop using “ineffective horse de-wormer” to treat COVID.

Just another day in the life of an early COVID treatment expert.