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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Just got back from a month long stay in the upcoming homestead. No electricity yet so I have to depend on my chain saw and some hand tools. Cabin almost complete. Still learning so much despite years and years of reading about this subjects. First important problem, Soil is 4 to 8 inches lose humus and limestone underneath on a rolling hills with up to 70 degree slope at some areas. I have to remove the existing bushes and small trees because my veggies wont grow underneath it. But doing so I am also going to remove the important fixtures that holds the important humus in place. So we cut the trees leaving a 5 to 6 foot trunks in place. The trees wont die some are producing shoots already. Which means it will hold the thin fertile soil in place but I will be able to plant alongside the cut trees and my veggies will get sunlight. will cut the trees progressively as my food forest starts to grow. Problem solve. Perhaps the most important lessons is not in permaculture classes but in the homestead itself. Wishing you all a happy new year.

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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Just got back from a month long stay in the upcoming homestead. No electricity yet so I have to depend on my chain saw and some hand tools. Cabin almost complete. Still learning so much despite years and years of reading about this subjects. First important problem, Soil is 4 to 8 inches lose humus and limestone underneath on a rolling hills with up to 70 degree slope at some areas. I have to remove the existing bushes and small trees because my veggies wont grow underneath it. But doing so I am also going to remove the important fixtures that holds the important humus in place. So we cut the trees leaving a 5 to 6 foot trunks in place. The trees wont die some are producing shoots already. Which means it will hold the thin fertile soil in place but I will be able to plant alongside the cut trees and my veggies will get sunlight. will cut the trees progressively as my food forest starts to grow. Problem solve. Perhaps the most important lessons is not in permaculture classes but in the homestead itself. Wishing you all a happy new year.
    Hi, that's good news, did you just say 70 degree slope? that's quite a lot
    perhaps you could work out some swales and even plant along, maybe a terrace garden work as well, just let the rain water sink into the soil and not run all the way down the hill, it could cause erosion at some point, supposing you got a raining season.
    Congratulations with your property, keep us posted.
    --
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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Just got back from a month long stay in the upcoming homestead. No electricity yet so I have to depend on my chain saw and some hand tools. Cabin almost complete. Still learning so much despite years and years of reading about this subjects. First important problem, Soil is 4 to 8 inches lose humus and limestone underneath on a rolling hills with up to 70 degree slope at some areas. I have to remove the existing bushes and small trees because my veggies wont grow underneath it. But doing so I am also going to remove the important fixtures that holds the important humus in place. So we cut the trees leaving a 5 to 6 foot trunks in place. The trees wont die some are producing shoots already. Which means it will hold the thin fertile soil in place but I will be able to plant alongside the cut trees and my veggies will get sunlight. will cut the trees progressively as my food forest starts to grow. Problem solve. Perhaps the most important lessons is not in permaculture classes but in the homestead itself. Wishing you all a happy new year.
    Hi, that's good news, did you just say 70 degree slope? that's quite a lot
    perhaps you could work out some swales and even plant along, maybe a terrace garden work as well, just let the rain water sink into the soil and not run all the way down the hill, it could cause erosion at some point, supposing you got a raining season.
    Congratulations with your property, keep us posted.
    on average the farm lot is about 20 degree slope but those very few 70 degree needs more attention. Haven't cut the trees on that area yet. Still thinking of strategy to tackle that portion. I am thinking of planting madre de agua ( a high protein animal feed), named as such because it also takes care of water, and then trim the tree branches progressively.

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  7. Link to Post #24
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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Just got back from a month long stay in the upcoming homestead. No electricity yet so I have to depend on my chain saw and some hand tools. Cabin almost complete. Still learning so much despite years and years of reading about this subjects. First important problem, Soil is 4 to 8 inches lose humus and limestone underneath on a rolling hills with up to 70 degree slope at some areas. I have to remove the existing bushes and small trees because my veggies wont grow underneath it. But doing so I am also going to remove the important fixtures that holds the important humus in place. So we cut the trees leaving a 5 to 6 foot trunks in place. The trees wont die some are producing shoots already. Which means it will hold the thin fertile soil in place but I will be able to plant alongside the cut trees and my veggies will get sunlight. will cut the trees progressively as my food forest starts to grow. Problem solve. Perhaps the most important lessons is not in permaculture classes but in the homestead itself. Wishing you all a happy new year.
    Hi, that's good news, did you just say 70 degree slope? that's quite a lot
    perhaps you could work out some swales and even plant along, maybe a terrace garden work as well, just let the rain water sink into the soil and not run all the way down the hill, it could cause erosion at some point, supposing you got a raining season.
    Congratulations with your property, keep us posted.
    on average the farm lot is about 20 degree slope but those very few 70 degree needs more attention. Haven't cut the trees on that area yet. Still thinking of strategy to tackle that portion. I am thinking of planting madre de agua ( a high protein animal feed), named as such because it also takes care of water, and then trim the tree branches progressively.
    This is very exciting. It is a learning curve when it becomes time to convert the knowledge from reading/watching ect. into doing. I have found that it turns out to be trials/assessments and then fine tuning. I have never done anything as satisfying as or as demanding than working with the earth. There is so very much to learn. I am really excited for you. Don't you feel wonderful after a days work outside. It is a good kind of tired.

    My little orchard that I planted is really starting to produce. I was able to freeze a bunch of the fruit and this year was my first for dehydrating. Apples with a sprinkle of cinnamon are a wonderful treat. Other than the natural loss of fruit I was able to utilize or will have utilized just about all the fruit.

    In the winter I grow sprouts indoors. Heck, if I can do it...a schmuck from the city anyone with the will and decent health can grow things to some degree or another.

    I love palehorses idea of terracing the part of the land that is sloped. Of course, my visualization of what you are saying is probably not the reality of it. Anyway, keep us posted!

    Wonderful idea about not disturbing the top soil that is so rich in nutrients.

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  9. Link to Post #25
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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Quote Posted by Pam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Just got back from a month long stay in the upcoming homestead. No electricity yet so I have to depend on my chain saw and some hand tools. Cabin almost complete. Still learning so much despite years and years of reading about this subjects. First important problem, Soil is 4 to 8 inches lose humus and limestone underneath on a rolling hills with up to 70 degree slope at some areas. I have to remove the existing bushes and small trees because my veggies wont grow underneath it. But doing so I am also going to remove the important fixtures that holds the important humus in place. So we cut the trees leaving a 5 to 6 foot trunks in place. The trees wont die some are producing shoots already. Which means it will hold the thin fertile soil in place but I will be able to plant alongside the cut trees and my veggies will get sunlight. will cut the trees progressively as my food forest starts to grow. Problem solve. Perhaps the most important lessons is not in permaculture classes but in the homestead itself. Wishing you all a happy new year.
    Hi, that's good news, did you just say 70 degree slope? that's quite a lot
    perhaps you could work out some swales and even plant along, maybe a terrace garden work as well, just let the rain water sink into the soil and not run all the way down the hill, it could cause erosion at some point, supposing you got a raining season.
    Congratulations with your property, keep us posted.
    on average the farm lot is about 20 degree slope but those very few 70 degree needs more attention. Haven't cut the trees on that area yet. Still thinking of strategy to tackle that portion. I am thinking of planting madre de agua ( a high protein animal feed), named as such because it also takes care of water, and then trim the tree branches progressively.
    This is very exciting. It is a learning curve when it becomes time to convert the knowledge from reading/watching ect. into doing. I have found that it turns out to be trials/assessments and then fine tuning. I have never done anything as satisfying as or as demanding than working with the earth. There is so very much to learn. I am really excited for you. Don't you feel wonderful after a days work outside. It is a good kind of tired.

    My little orchard that I planted is really starting to produce. I was able to freeze a bunch of the fruit and this year was my first for dehydrating. Apples with a sprinkle of cinnamon are a wonderful treat. Other than the natural loss of fruit I was able to utilize or will have utilized just about all the fruit.

    In the winter I grow sprouts indoors. Heck, if I can do it...a schmuck from the city anyone with the will and decent health can grow things to some degree or another.

    I love palehorses idea of terracing the part of the land that is sloped. Of course, my visualization of what you are saying is probably not the reality of it. Anyway, keep us posted!

    Wonderful idea about not disturbing the top soil that is so rich in nutrients.
    Thanks Pam. Couple of times I got tired of slicing the tree with my chainsaw as I dont have a saw mill. I lay down on the ground beside the felled tree and took a nap. Of course I have seen the beautiful blue sky before and after the nap and its wonderful. I am luckier than most farm owners when it comes to growing plants I have the best spot in a tropical place. No typhoons no freezing. Temperature range is 20 during the coldest night and 27 on a sunny day. Soil is almost constantly moist. I buried some of the garlics and onions I brought for cooking. all bulbs sprouted. No watering no tending. just planted it and forget. Terracing is definitely the best option on some slopes. Some people call it SALT, sloping agriculture land technology. Of course its just labels another name for terracing to get attention maybe. Will try to keep you posted maybe I could have an internet in a couple more weeks in that place. Just need to install a wifi antenna and acquire a wifi modem. My children wont go there without it.

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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Hello everyone, found one more interesting link


    https://transitionnetwork.org/transition-near-me/

    Quote What is Transition?
    Transition is a movement that has been growing since 2005. It is about communities stepping up to address the big challenges they face by starting local. By coming together, they are able to create solutions together. They seek to nurture a caring culture, one focused on connection with self, others and nature. They are reclaiming the economy, sparking entrepreneurship, reimagining work, reskilling themselves and weaving webs of connection and support. Courageous conversations are being had; extraordinary change is unfolding.
    here is their essential guide to understand what it is about:



    Almost forgot, another link with quite a lot of resources, I am harvesting some nice documents from it
    http://simplicityinstitute.org/publications
    Last edited by palehorse; 10th January 2022 at 18:18.
    --
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  13. Link to Post #27
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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    HI everyone, today would like to share some more data with you all interested in permaculture, I have a Permaculture Design Course, but it is too large to share in the forum, also bad for upload anywhere because my connection sucks!

    I know some people are not familiar with torrents, but it is the best option available (in my opinion of course) to spread/share material online, and all you need is a torrent client, which goes from very simple interfaces to very complex and complete programs.. I recommend start with a simple one like `qBittorrent`.

    Here is the PDC course (magnet link) available to download it via torrents (size: 8.8Gb).
    Code:
    magnet:?xt=urn:btih:A91ACF3515BD94E439D2825C7A86C35721AC90F6&dn=PDC_Permaculture_Bill_Mollison_and_Geoff_Lawton&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.me%3A2780%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2730%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fp4p.arenabg.com%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3A451%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.tiny-vps.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.stealth.si%3A80%2Fannounce

    Here is a collection of great videos of Bill Mollison (available on vimeo - if anyone know how to easily download these videos, please share, I never used vimeo before)
    http://www.networkearth.org/perma/culture.html (the video source is from Vimeo)


    Here is Bill Mollison's Permaculture Design Manual (pretty sure already shared in other threads, but here goes again) - it goes in line with the PDC videos, use for reference and more details on the subject.
    https://ia800508.us.archive.org/17/i...s%20Manual.pdf


    and here a website with many references
    https://billmollison.org/
    --
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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Hi folks, earlier this morning was reading a bunch of interesting blogs, and came across with this one of someone from Portugal, at least very interesting the way the lady decided to go off grid. I was always wondering how hard could be to build a home out of rocks, I saw a few large projects in the past (that was enough to make me lose my interest haha), but this one seems like a perfect size for a couple to live in.. the lady even built her own drainage system, her own toilet bucket system
    It is all simple solution that can be improved of course, the lady is in the process of building, but most of the basic things are already completed.
    It is nice to see people sharing the process of building a homestead, their passions, their frustrations, their motivations, and so on.. this is what make us human beings.

    Enjoy the reading.

    Here is the blog: http://www.portugalfromscratch.com/p...ear-in-review/
    Last edited by palehorse; 1st March 2022 at 05:31. Reason: of course the link duh!
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  17. Link to Post #29
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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Thanks for the links I am downloading the PDF mannual and will save it on my tablet so I can read off grid. I am looking forward to finding some relevant info. Though from my experience its mostly on site learning. For example I planted bananas couple of weeks back, most people in our country plant in mounds to prevent root rot, but before I planted I went around looking for bananas in my place. The healtiest is planted on a depression so I concluded that the soil is somewhat well draining so I planted in depressions not mounds. Also after cutiing the trees I immediately palnted corn, squash is to follow soon. These are fast growing cash crops that also provides ground cover before the evasive herbs and bush can take off. I also tend to disagrre with Bill Mollison to keep out of the bushes or leave the bushes alone. If we are to survive in the bushes we need to replace the existing bush with something that benefits us albiet in a way that creates the least destruction to existing ecosystem and gives back to it. Corn and squash will be permanent ground cover until I replace it with perenials and fruit trees and some veggies also. This will also provide some cash for the transition. For now I am establihing a soil biota for corn and squash. This will be replace with soil biota for every plant especie as I go along. The way to do it is to collect animal waste samples from as many area ( I collected horse , cow and poultry manure). I also collected soil samples from the spot where the healtiest corns is growing and mix them together. This is my invention and is not yet proven. But from my readings and analysis I concluded that certain soil organism favor/ helps certain plants and vice versa., So what I am trying to do is to multiply that biota and give it to other corns and squash and in the future from every plant especie. Ones the soil biota is establish for a certain plant especie then it goes self sustaining. That is how our forest thrive year after year after year. The problem with modern agriculture is that the first thing they do is kill the soil biota and never replace it. Then when it starts to restablish they kill it again on harvesting the crops. For me the most important is to keep the soil planted, feed it and never put poison on it.

    I admire Bill Mollison he sure has a lot to give. But like most people who became famous for something they tend to become unrealistic and cultist. Not saying this to degrade but rather to warn other people to stay away from this practice. Every situation, every person is different you need to find what suits you and the situation and not follow religiously.

    I am also planning to get rid of the rats. They destroy crops and everything and harbor disease. Any objection/ suggestion before I actually do it?
    Last edited by Bubu; 1st March 2022 at 23:16.

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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    I believe that plants is the most important part of the food forest or any kind of forest or plantations. without plants there would'nt be any food forest or any kind of forest, obviously and that the soil is what gives life to plants. The relationship between palnts and soil should have the most attention in permaculture, jadam, one straw and any branded gardening system. There is one soil scientist that I also admire. His name is Dr. Bryant Redhawk. You may find his materials on permies.com. Another ingredient that is essential in plant growth is CO2 and sunlight. And because its nearly impossible to remove sunligth and soil biota despite the many poisons they sell to farmers they are blaming CO2 so that they can mobilize people to remove it from the atmosphere. Ever heard of carbon capture? I do believe that this is the main reason for all the climate change B*** crap. They want to control food production by removing CO2 in the atmosphere. The zombie2 may accomplish this for them.

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    Default Re: Projects, Permaculture, Homestead, Farmstead and the likes

    Quote Posted by Bubu (here)
    Thanks for the links I am downloading the PDF mannual and will save it on my tablet so I can read off grid. I am looking forward to finding some relevant info. Though from my experience its mostly on site learning. For example I planted bananas couple of weeks back, most people in our country plant in mounds to prevent root rot, but before I planted I went around looking for bananas in my place. The healtiest is planted on a depression so I concluded that the soil is somewhat well draining so I planted in depressions not mounds. Also after cutiing the trees I immediately palnted corn, squash is to follow soon. These are fast growing cash crops that also provides ground cover before the evasive herbs and bush can take off. I also tend to disagrre with Bill Mollison to keep out of the bushes or leave the bushes alone. If we are to survive in the bushes we need to replace the existing bush with something that benefits us albiet in a way that creates the least destruction to existing ecosystem and gives back to it. Corn and squash will be permanent ground cover until I replace it with perenials and fruit trees and some veggies also. This will also provide some cash for the transition. For now I am establihing a soil biota for corn and squash. This will be replace with soil biota for every plant especie as I go along. The way to do it is to collect animal waste samples from as many area ( I collected horse , cow and poultry manure). I also collected soil samples from the spot where the healtiest corns is growing and mix them together. This is my invention and is not yet proven. But from my readings and analysis I concluded that certain soil organism favor/ helps certain plants and vice versa., So what I am trying to do is to multiply that biota and give it to other corns and squash and in the future from every plant especie. Ones the soil biota is establish for a certain plant especie then it goes self sustaining. That is how our forest thrive year after year after year. The problem with modern agriculture is that the first thing they do is kill the soil biota and never replace it. Then when it starts to restablish they kill it again on harvesting the crops. For me the most important is to keep the soil planted, feed it and never put poison on it.

    I admire Bill Mollison he sure has a lot to give. But like most people who became famous for something they tend to become unrealistic and cultist. Not saying this to degrade but rather to warn other people to stay away from this practice. Every situation, every person is different you need to find what suits you and the situation and not follow religiously.

    I am also planning to get rid of the rats. They destroy crops and everything and harbor disease. Any objection/ suggestion before I actually do it?


    Thanks for sharing it with us Bubu, practical stuffs like this worth much more. My neighbor got bananas going on here, his land (total flat) has good drainage and he had to water the bananas for the first 2 months or it would dry out and die, after that the raining season took care of it and now it is all by itself, took many months but finally we can see the banana bunches coming out. Yes bananas roots like water, but too much of it will just rot it away. In the floods years ago in our land, we lost almost all papayas trees, it was a meter or so of water level for like weeks, the mangoes, bamboos and coconuts survived well, bananas also survived because they were not directed affected by the flood.

    Bill Molison and Geoff Lawton I would say, got the very same problem, they become "super stars" in the permaculture circle, when Mr. Molison was alive his PDC was damned expensive and guys like George W. Bush and Emmanuel Macron was his student as well as many people in the political scene around the world, he was without any doubt a very well connected person. Geoff Lawton in other hand has a dubious background (I can't confirm that, there is just rumors about that), his real name is "Jamal Al Dean or Deen" and he went from a marijuana grower and distributor in Australia to a permaculturist world wide recognized and today has strong ties with the Jordanian Royal Family, and there is some allegations that his permaculture institute in Amman Jordania is just a front for washing money (drug money?? who knows).. This are all rumors on internet and I do not identify with that nor I care about it. The only thing that matters is what these two persons wrote and recorded as teachings of permaculture and it is very doable to take in, we can always filter the information, also there is many more wonderful people into permaculture, and the good news is, the number of people is growing.

    The things about Zones Bill Mollison talk a lot about, if you are starting a design from scratch, it is "easier" to do things by the book, because one can plan the zones in the property, otherwise if you already got a property running and you want to adapt it to the permaculture model with zone designing, that could be a daunting task in my opinion, I had seen many failures in that respect, I myself tried to convert my land with zones and it won't work by the book, because in my opinion if leaves lots of empty spaces in the land that could be used for something, I end up coming with a different solution that is called "complete space filling" as showed in the image bellow. (it will work better for small plots like mine). I still agree with many principles of permaculture.



    and here is my draft I did years ago, I have many different, but this one gives an idea of the drama when trying to design land by the permaculture book.


    (in my design, from zone 1 to zone 2 and 3 it created angles which usually will be an empty space in the land, since it is already a small plot I want to use it 100% - then separate by zones as used in the permaculture principles does not worked well)

    Rodents are a disgrace, you will have to divert them to the compost pile (make one for them if necessary), do you add food scraps to it? My in-law has a large compost pile and he adds all sort of things in there, including food scrap, seems to work, no rats around the house or in the plantations, but he is planting cassava only, nothing much for rodents in there.

    If I learn something about rat control I will post later on this thread. Here I leave another question, how to control monkeys? Some periods of the year, like now (summer) monkeys come around looking for food, but it started recently last 2 years, they disgrace the entire place, destroy the plants, herbs, they do a hell in just a few minutes and vanish carrying out whatever they can, I was wondering how to keep them away, we got the slingshot but I do not have the time to be on the watch haha also heard local farmers doing lots of smoke to keep them away, but that is not an option for me.
    Last edited by palehorse; 2nd March 2022 at 06:42.
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    we have problem with monkeys too and also wild pigs. I will try sleeping pills when they come over for the harvest. I might raise wild pigs their meat is expensive here. As for the monkeys I still dont know what to do with them if I caught five or more sleeping soundly.

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    as for the zoning I just don't see how it will work in my homestead. Its like rolling hills . Just one look and I knew its not going to work. The land/soil is not created equal. there are places with thin layer soils that only crawlers might survive. as well as deep soils all over. My strategy is to find the best plant for a certain soil and its definitely going to be in conflict with zonings. Zonings looks logical and promising at first glance. But when you go deeper and starts to consider all the variables like soil kind water availability and all, the concept crumbles like a sand castle.

    Anyways I would like to sharte another thing that I have learned lately; weeds and other herbaceous helps my corn by providing ground cover around it. I think plant succesion is another important thing that every gardener should learn. Its like when you bare a soil the first to come are small weeds then bigger then herbs and so on. and each smaller species provides a shade for bigger ones while thay are growing and eventually die off when the bigger ones deprive them of sunlight. So now I only remove the herbs that compete for sunlight with corn and leave the small ones alone to cover the ground. When the corn deprive them of sunlight they will eventually die off. That's the time when their service as ground cover is no longer needed.
    Last edited by Bubu; 7th March 2022 at 12:41.

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    Perhaps not the best thread for this little input.. I sometimes watch videos from a guy whose Youtube Channel is called Mossy Bottom. He is English but quit his city living to move to Ireland and run a smallholding.

    In the video below he interviews a young man (31) who quit life in Dublin to live a simpler country life. He bought a place with no electricity or running water and he didn't own a car.

    (I watched on 1.25 speed, bit of a slow, thoughtful, talker).


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    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Perhaps not the best thread for this little input.. I sometimes watch videos from a guy whose Youtube Channel is called Mossy Bottom. He is English but quit his city living to move to Ireland and run a smallholding.

    In the video below he interviews a young man (31) who quit life in Dublin to live a simpler country life. He bought a place with no electricity or running water and he didn't own a car.

    (I watched on 1.25 speed, bit of a slow, thoughtful, talker).



    Thanks Ewan, it makes total sense to post it here, I started watching now.

    Taking the opportunity, I would like to share another good resources:

    There is another guy, he has a channel on youtube as well, but sorry I don't have the URL, I have only his name, which is "Martijn Doolaard", basically he bought 2 little stone cabins in the Italian alps and he restored it and actually lives inside one.. he made a sequence of videos telling the story which is quite nice.

    His goals is to create an off the grid full homestead, he also comments about how much he paid for his property and everything else that matters, you will be surprised about the prices in some areas with hard access.

    Another channel featuring amazing stories of living off the grid is "Kirsten Dirksen" she made a nice video about "Johannes Hermit" the priest, he lives in the Italian alps as well (Martijn Doolaard's neighbor) in a self sustainable way, lots to learn with these people..

    there is one very important observation to take into consideration in all these videos, including Ewan's video: To start a community, all is needed is 1 fully dedicated person, you can see how a community start with 1 individual and then another one and another.. this is the organic growth of a community.
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    Quote Another channel featuring amazing stories of living off the grid is "Kirsten Dirksen" she made a nice video about "Johannes Hermit" the priest, he lives in the Italian alps as well (Martijn Doolaard's neighbor) in a self sustainable way, lots to learn with these people...

    Young priest turns forsaken farm into paradise homestead

    Five years ago Catholic priest Johannes Schwarz left his parish to "withdraw for a few years" in the Italian Alps (in the shadow of his beloved Monte Viso). He bought an old "rustico" - stone farm building - for 20,000 euros and transformed it into his mountaintop hermitage.

    Inspired by the early Christian desert hermits from the "200s and 300s when some people went into the deserts of Egypt and Palestine searching for a more rigorous life", Schwarz found something remote: he has only one full-time neighbor on the entire mountainside and in winter, he often has to snowshoe for a couple hours just to buy food and supplies.

    To be as self-sufficient as possible, he makes his own bread and stores plenty of potatoes which he grows using Ruth Stout's "No-Work" gardening method. To grow much of his own fruit and produce, he terraced the steep hillside (using stones from the area) to create micro-climates. "You try to build walls that have southern exposure because they heat up during the day and they give off the warmth and can make a difference of several degrees." (Studies show differences of 27°F/15°C in the ultra-deep Incan terraces). He grows plenty of tomatoes inside his self-built recycled greenhouse.

    For heating and cooking, he built a combination rocket stove and masonry heater by creating his own casts and loam coating. His refrigerator, which he transported up the hill on top of his bicycle, is kept in the unheated room, along with his food stores. He uses a tiny 30-year-old 3-kilogram washing machine and built his bathroom out of salvaged materials. To transport the lumber up the hill for his remodel, he got some help from a local farmer.

    He divided the old barn into four small rooms on two floors; the living room/kitchen and pantry on the ground floor and a chapel and bedroom upstairs. His bedroom also serves as an editing studio where he creates videos on philosophy and religion.

    He created a wooden-arched indoor chapel where he “celebrates the traditional Latin mass” alongside a wall he painted with Byzantine, romanesque and gothic styles in appreciation of "the symbolism of the ancient art."

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    Finding the Most Secluded Cabin in Switzerland
    Posted the video for the breath taking scenery, rather than the cabin (couldn't help it)

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    Thanks @Peace in Oz for the last two posts, appreciated that.
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    I have been aware for many years that Urine is a very fine fertilizer. My Mother who was an avant gardener (deliberate play on words) grew GIANT aloe vera plants. She told me she used diluted urine.

    Quote Urine As Fertilizer: Myth Or Valid Method?
    Published June 29, 2021


    Many gardeners are interested in achieving self-sufficiency and living off of their own abilities and the land. To cultivate a successful garden, we often need to include additional inputs like compost and fertilizers to keep up with the demand on the soil nutrients to grow crops. Store-bought fertilizers and manures often contain waste products from other animals like worms, chickens, and even bats. What if we can produce our own endless and free supply by using our urine as fertilizer?

    The main components in commercial fertilizers, nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium as well as micronutrients, are produced by the human body. In fact, humans have been using pee as fertilizer long before the invention of modern chemical fertilizers. Urine is the original and free liquid gold.

    According to the Stockholm Environment Institute, a person can produce as much urine per year to fertilize 300-400 square meters or roughly 3200-4300 square feet of crops! Used at a household level, the urine that a family produces is more than enough to help sustain a home garden. If adopted at scale, capitalizing on human urine could tackle both sanitation and food security challenges around the world.

    Urine as fertilizer
    Applying urine as fertilizer may sound strange but is quite effective.
    Living in modern society, we are accustomed to our waste products being flushed away and processed at wastewater treatment plants. If the idea of using urine in the garden grosses you out, maybe it helps to know that urine has been historically used for many purposes. From softening leathers to bleaching clothes, urine and other bodily waste have been prized commodities since antiquity for many cultures around the world.

    What Is In Urine
    Urine is a liquid waste product as a result of our kidneys cleaning and filtering our blood. Typically, urine contains around 95% water and the rest are a mix of salts including sodium, potassium and chloride, urea, and uric acid. Due to the high water content in pee, the more you drink, the more you have to go. For a healthy person, human urine typically has a pH of around 6.2 with a range of 5.5-7.0. A person’s diet and alcohol consumption can also affect the pH of their urine.

    The main organic component of urine is urea, a combination of ammonia and carbon dioxide, which is the byproduct of our bodies breaking down proteins into usable amino acids. Urea is very high in nitrogen, a key ingredient to healthy leafy growth in plants. In addition to being very nitrogen-rich, urine also contains dissolved phosphorus that’s immediately available to plants, making urine a quick-acting fertilizer.

    Social and Environmental Benefits of Using Urine
    The environmental impact of producing and using chemical fertilizer has been well documented. For example, phosphorus, a key ingredient in commercial fertilizers, is typically mined and is a limited resource. Using too much fertilizer that runs off into the local watershed has also been shown to cause algal blooms and dead zones in the water system.

    In 2014, the city of Amsterdam launched a campaign to raise awareness of phosphorus shortage by setting up public urinals and educating the public on repurposing pee as a plant fertilizer. In parts of the world where chemical fertilizers are cost-prohibitive, it’s even more important to be able to recycle nutrients and create a closed-loop system using this free resource, thus converting waste into treasure. Tapping into this free resource could help farmers increase their yields and address a piece of the global food insecurity challenge.

    Is It Safe To Use Urine As A Fertilizer?

    If you own a dog, you may be familiar with yellow patches on your lawn where your pet has peed. Dogs and cats excrete fresh urine with a higher quantity of urea than humans do and that can more easily burn a plant upon contact. For the purpose of this article, we are going to address using human urine, which contains less urea and thus less ammonia.

    Despite Bear Grylls drinking urine in his popular survival shows, urine is not sterile. It picks up trace amounts of bacteria as the sterile version passes through the bladder, the urinary tract and comes in contact with the skin. Still, the health risks of using urine are very low because urine does not typically contain pathogens found in feces. Infectious diseases like cholera are spread through water sources contaminated by poop. In areas with poor sanitation, there is no way to separate solid and liquid waste which is why all untreated mixed sewage can pose significant public health risks.

    When not to use pee
    The health of the person producing urine does matter for use in the garden. If you are taking medication or undergoing hormone treatment, your urine will likely contain chemical or hormonal residues. It is best in that case not to use your urine as fertilizer because these micro-pollutants can be taken up by plants and may negatively impact microbial activity in the soil. Along the same vein, it’s best not to use your urine if you are experiencing a urinary tract infection which is typically caused by bacteria including E.coli.

    Urine naturally contains salt and the amount can vary depending on a person’s diet. Urine use in arid areas could cause salinization of the soil and should be carefully monitored. Different plants have different tolerances to salt in the soil but an excess concentration of salt could adversely impact plant health and growth. For example, vegetables like potatoes and onions are very salt-sensitive whereas olives and barley are tolerant. Some leafy greens like kale and are moderately tolerant.

    How Urine Can Be Used As A Fertilizer
    Stored urine
    Store urine in a fully sealed container. Source: Sustainable sanitation
    Researchers around the world have been testing the effect of urine on plant growth and production. Positive results have been documented on cereals in Europe and Africa, cabbage and spinach in South Africa, and bananas in India, just to name a few. There is strong evidence in the literature and field research to support the use of urine to promote healthy plant growth.

    There are a few rules of thumb when it comes to using pee in the garden. Store or handle urine in a closed container, and apply it directly to the soil instead of on plants. Creating a foliar spray is not recommended. Young plants typically need more nutrients during their growth stage and spacing out the timing between applying the fertilizer to harvesting can further help to decrease health risks, especially if the crop is to be consumed raw.

    Dilute urine with water or apply as an undiluted solution. Many of the papers mentioned above used a diluted version. There are variations to dilution from 1:1 to 1:15 with the most common formula being 1:3. Add water to dilute urine as close to the application time as possible to ensure that the solution will not harbor mosquitos. Applying urine close to the soil, watering it in, or using a dilution can all help with the smell.

    You may have heard about using blood meal as a compost activator to heat up your pile quickly. Blood meal is high in nitrogen which is why it’s a go-to choice. The same can also be said for urine. Adding pee to your compost pile or strawbale can help kickstart an otherwise slow composting process.

    Aging urine
    Nepal is one of the countries with a long history of using urine to improve soil nutrients for farming. According to Nepal’s Central Horticulture Center, urine should be stored in an airtight container for at least two weeks to a month and mixed with compost before use. Similarly, in a 2020 study published by the University of Michigan, the research found that aging human urine in sealed containers over several months can further decrease the risks of using pee as fertilizer. This university study tested urine stored for 12-16 months and found that ammonia levels increased over time and killed most bacteria found in fresh urine.

    Frequently Asked Questions
    Second comparison with older plants
    Another comparison of urine fertilization in basil vs no fertilization. Source: Sustainable sanitation
    Q: Is urine good for the garden?

    A: Urine contains a lot of nutrients that are beneficial for plant growth such as nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. Many cultures around the world have historically been using pee as a fertilizer and many modern researchers have also found similar results in field tests on cereals, leafy vegetables, and fruits. Urine is a free and sustainable source of nutrients that is appropriate for both agricultural and home settings.

    Q: Does human urine kill plants?

    A: All fertilizers, including human urine, should be used in moderation. Just as using too much chemical fertilizer can burn plants, using too much urine can harm plants by causing nutrient burn. To decrease the likelihood of urine killing plants, urine should be applied to the soil at the base of the plant instead of directly on the foliage.

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    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    I have been aware for many years that Urine is a very fine fertilizer. My Mother who was an avant gardener (deliberate play on words) grew GIANT aloe vera plants. She told me she used diluted urine.
    quite true, I did an experiment with that a few years ago with basil plants, they were huge! also CO2 applied in certain amount (i think up to 1500ppm) for example in a greenhouse will maximize crop yield, there is sensors to measure that amount, they are inexpensive today (about $10).

    This thread may interest someone:
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...ure#post869285
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