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Thread: Dying On Hills

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Dying On Hills

    I've lost count how many times I've heard one of these 2 phrases uttered in the last year or so:

    1) "That's not a hill I'd die on."

    2) "That's a hill I'm willing to die on."

    Is the first phrase usually uttered out of wisdom or cowardice?

    Is the second phrase uttered out of courage or recklessness?

    Both phrases are reactions to a lesser of the evil situation.

    Currently many places in the world are facing this vaccine mandate madness. Lockdown madness. For many, the question has become: Do I get vaccinated and keep my job and my ability to freely travel and attend large gatherings and so forth? Or do I refuse and sacrifice all those things?

    Many here in America have decided to sacrifice their jobs, their livelihoods, their reputations, their homes, their health benefits, their friendships in order to not comply with vaccine mandates. They've decided to die on that hill.

    And many others - even those who oppose vaccine mandates - refuse to die on that hill. Not too long ago one of my friends was discussing a mutual friend of ours who decided to get vaccinated in order to keep her job. He was disgusted with her. I reminded him that the woman in question had a job that made her quite wealthy, and she had much to lose by refusing the jab. But he was unmoved. This friend of mine btw, the male, he is unemployed and basically poor and a) has very little to lose, and b) very likely would never be put in that situation anyway. In short, I found his heavy judgement of our mutual female friend to be silly and obnoxious.

    In war, whether literal or ideological (or both), some people have to die on some hills for the situation to finally find resolution. That's just inevitable. Are you willing to die on a hill? Which hills would you be willing to die on? Which ones wouldn't you be willing to die on? And by choosing not to die on some hills are you being cowardly or wise? And by choosing to die on others are you being reckless or courageous? In times like these I think we should all be deeply probing our motives.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    At least half the people I know that have received the vaccine, did so because they were coerced, not because they wanted to. The pressure is really high here in Canada as our prime minister said he won't let up until he has 100% vaccination rate.

    As for me personally, I guess I'll being "dying on that hill", even if its just to prevent that douche bag Trudeau from getting his 100%.

    But I'm not choosing the lesser of an evil ... I am simply not choosing. Not being subjected to a medical experiment is the baseline for normal behaviour in this regard. One has to choose to get the vaccine.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 17th November 2021 at 19:41.
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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    At least half the people I know that have received the vaccine, did so because they were coerced, not because they wanted to. The pressure is really high here in Canada as our prime minister said he won't let up until he has 100% vaccination rate.

    As for me personally, I guess I'll being "dying on that hill", even if its just to prevent that douche bag Trudeau from getting his 100%.

    But I'm not choosing the lesser of an evil ... I am simply not choosing. Not being subjected to a medical experiment is the baseline for normal behaviour in this regard. One has to choose to get the vaccine.


    (Semantical battle with Duk take 100. Aaaaaaand action!)

    Not being subjected to the medical experiment involves *choosing* to decline it

    Dying on that hill to prevent that douchebag from getting his 100% vaccination rate is choosing the lesser of the evils, because there will be all sorts of potential consequences for you if you don't get vaccinated.

    He is a douchebag tho! On that we agree!

    And I also agree that declining the jab represents a more normal or reasonable baseline in most circumstances.

    But you really can't escape a lesser of the evil choice in some of these situations.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    At least half the people I know that have received the vaccine, did so because they were coerced, not because they wanted to. The pressure is really high here in Canada as our prime minister said he won't let up until he has 100% vaccination rate.

    As for me personally, I guess I'll being "dying on that hill", even if its just to prevent that douche bag Trudeau from getting his 100%.

    But I'm not choosing the lesser of an evil ... I am simply not choosing. Not being subjected to a medical experiment is the baseline for normal behaviour in this regard. One has to choose to get the vaccine.


    (Semantical battle with Duk take 100. Aaaaaaand action!)

    Not being subjected to the medical experiment involves *choosing* to decline it
    In order to choose not getting it, there is a requirement that I considered getting it, and then chose not to. I never did that - it has never been my consideration to get it. For example, if you never considered going to Tuktuyaaqtuuq, no one can accuse you of choosing to not go there, unless you considered it first. This is logic, not semantics.


    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Dying on that hill to prevent that douchebag from getting his 100% vaccination rate is choosing the lesser of the evils, because there will be all sorts of potential consequences for you if you don't get vaccinated.
    Actually I am seeing and experiencing a lot of opportunities for improvements to mine and other's way of living, not really the consequences. The experiences is subjective, and unique to the experience. If a tyrannical dictator forces his way onto people, we don't say the people are just suffering the consequences for their actions, because that line of thinking automatically implies justification for the tyrannical dictator's actions. It allows the oppression of people to be blamed on the people - a dangerous way of thinking. Are we being oppressed? I'd say it might be seen this way, yes.



    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    He is a douchebag tho! On that we agree!

    And I also agree that declining the jab represents a more normal or reasonable baseline in most circumstances.

    But you really can't escape a lesser of the evil choice in some of these situations.

    Declining, as an action, isn't the baseline - not considering it, is. No one would just one day wake up in the morning and be like, "I wonder if I should partake in some experimental, untested, unproven, mRNA gene therapy today?" - then makes the choice one way or another, because that is not the baseline. One needs to be coerced into that thought through a mechanism, in this case that mechanism is fear.

    So in a sense, if one has fear and guides themselves by that fear, then one can be controlled and coerced by it, coerced to make a "decision", that would not otherwise arise. A choice cannot be had via coercion, only a decision can.

    So, let's make more distinct choice vs decision: When it comes to coercion by fear, there are no choices - only decisions.

    Choice: A selection, often made after a consideration.
    Decision: A selection made based on a consideration.

    A choice can be made out of love, instinct, intuition, etc. but a decision is based on the options given.

    So the word you should have used was decision, as that has the built in implication of the consideration between one choice or another, tying in to my first point on logic.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 17th November 2021 at 21:09.
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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    At least half the people I know that have received the vaccine, did so because they were coerced, not because they wanted to. The pressure is really high here in Canada as our prime minister said he won't let up until he has 100% vaccination rate.

    As for me personally, I guess I'll being "dying on that hill", even if its just to prevent that douche bag Trudeau from getting his 100%.

    But I'm not choosing the lesser of an evil ... I am simply not choosing. Not being subjected to a medical experiment is the baseline for normal behaviour in this regard. One has to choose to get the vaccine.
    You are certainly not alone. There are more people like us in Canada than most people realize.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Mike, if Trudeau won't quit till 100% of the Canadian population is vaccinated, as you said, he's going to either:

    A) mandate that every Canadian citizen get the jab thru law (and I will admit here to being ignorant of Candian law and not knowing if that's legally possible)

    ...and if that's not possible, then:

    B) do everything in his power, within the law, to make your life very very complicated if you don't get vaccinated.

    You will inevitably be confronted with one or more of these complications. They may make your life so complicated and stressful that you find it nearly impossible to continue in the same manner. And in this space you will be confronted with a choice: to continue living this very complicated and stressful life or get the jab and have all these constrictions removed. The analogy you provided comparing never considering a trip to Tultuyaautuuq and never considering the jab doesn't work because the prime minister isn't making anyone's life miserable if they don't consider going to Tultuyaautuuq.

    The vaccine is something that is being more or less forced upon Canadian citizens. The consequences of not taking it will affect all their lives in a negative way. If, as you say, you've never once considered getting it, then you will have still chosen anyway - you will have chosen all the consequences that will result from not getting it. You will have chosen the "lesser of the evils".
    Last edited by Mike; 17th November 2021 at 21:48.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Would you prefer to live (three score year and ten) ....... and never have a 'hill' to die upon?

    May you live in interesting times
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)

    In war, whether literal or ideological (or both), some people have to die on some hills for the situation to finally find resolution. That's just inevitable. Are you willing to die on a hill? Which hills would you be willing to die on? Which ones wouldn't you be willing to die on? And by choosing not to die on some hills are you being cowardly or wise? And by choosing to die on others are you being reckless or courageous? In times like these I think we should all be deeply probing our motives.
    I get what you're saying but hopefully, no one will have to die on the hill of political ideology. I would like to think that if enough of us stood together we could implement lasting change. The implication is that if you stand alone and others do not follow death is imminent. I think the reality is that if you stand alone and others don't or won't follow you could be severely damaged but you will live to fight another day and even if you don't fight you can prosper once again.

    I think the below meme is fairly representative of where the world is today.


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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I've lost count how many times I've heard one of these 2 phrases uttered in the last year or so:

    1) "That's not a hill I'd die on."

    2) "That's a hill I'm willing to die on."

    Is the first phrase usually uttered out of wisdom or cowardice?

    Is the second phrase uttered out of courage or recklessness?
    .
    They are expressions of conviction & ideals (and the mixture of the two).

    I suppose these types of statements are almost meaningless in todays age.. probably mostly confusing for those that haven't had to make choices based on those two aspects.
    Last edited by TargeT; 17th November 2021 at 22:21.
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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Mike, if Trudeau won't quit till 100% of the Canadian population is vaccinated, as you said, he's going to either:

    A) mandate that every Canadian citizen get the jab thru law (and I will admit here to being ignorant of Candian law and not knowing if that's legally possible)

    ...and if that's not possible, then:

    B) do everything in his power, within the law, to make your life very very complicated if you don't get vaccinated.

    You will inevitably be confronted with one or more of these complications. They may make your life so complicated and stressful that you find it nearly impossible to continue in the same manner. And in this space you will be confronted with a choice: to continue living this very complicated and stressful life or get the jab and have all these constrictions removed. The analogy you provided comparing never considering a trip to Tultuyaautuuq and never considering the jab doesn't work because the prime minister isn't making anyone's life miserable if they don't consider going to Tultuyaautuuq.

    The vaccine is something that is being more or less forced upon Canadian citizens. The consequences of not taking it will affect all their lives in a negative way. If, as you say, you've never once considered getting it, then you will have still chosen anyway - you will have chosen all the consequences that will result from not getting it. You will have chosen the "lesser of the evils".
    Maybe I'm in a better position than most. I've been preparing for this since last fall -- the way I am choosing to live now, already has mitigation to the things that "douche bag" might oppress on me, built in. Maybe not 100% mitigation, but a lot. Not only that it has beauty and forward thinking towards better has of living built in.

    Choosing to live off the land as much as possible, network with like minded peoples who are building their own local economy systems, to remove reliance on government and corporations, and live in a manner that is not focused on rivalrous dynamics is a beautiful, wonderful thing - it is moving forward through a potentially difficult situations, in a natural and beautiful way. I would hardly consider that an "evil", but rather the solution to the current presented "evil" I, and others, are expected to choose.

    Right now I have been free to choose, and through those choices I have yet not had to make a "decision". It might come down the road, it might not.

    Clinging to old systems causes suffering, and much of it undue. Attitude and perspective are the main driving forces behind "misery" and "suffering". What is misery to one person, is oppurtunity to another.
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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Mike, if Trudeau won't quit till 100% of the Canadian population is vaccinated, as you said, he's going to either:

    A) mandate that every Canadian citizen get the jab thru law (and I will admit here to being ignorant of Candian law and not knowing if that's legally possible)

    ...and if that's not possible, then:

    B) do everything in his power, within the law, to make your life very very complicated if you don't get vaccinated.

    You will inevitably be confronted with one or more of these complications. They may make your life so complicated and stressful that you find it nearly impossible to continue in the same manner. And in this space you will be confronted with a choice: to continue living this very complicated and stressful life or get the jab and have all these constrictions removed. The analogy you provided comparing never considering a trip to Tultuyaautuuq and never considering the jab doesn't work because the prime minister isn't making anyone's life miserable if they don't consider going to Tultuyaautuuq.

    The vaccine is something that is being more or less forced upon Canadian citizens. The consequences of not taking it will affect all their lives in a negative way. If, as you say, you've never once considered getting it, then you will have still chosen anyway - you will have chosen all the consequences that will result from not getting it. You will have chosen the "lesser of the evils".
    Maybe I'm in a better position than most. I've been preparing for this since last fall -- the way I am choosing to live now, already has mitigation to the things that "douche bag" might oppress on me, built in. Maybe not 100% mitigation, but a lot. Not only that it has beauty and forward thinking towards better has of living built in.

    Choosing to live off the land as much as possible, network with like minded peoples who are building their own local economy systems, to remove reliance on government and corporations, and live in a manner that is not focused on rivalrous dynamics is a beautiful, wonderful thing - it is moving forward through a potentially difficult situations, in a natural and beautiful way. I would hardly consider that an "evil", but rather the solution to the current presented "evil" I, and others, are expected to choose.

    Right now I have been free to choose, and through those choices I have yet not had to make a "decision". It might come down the road, it might not.

    Clinging to old systems causes suffering, and much of it undue. Attitude and perspective are the main driving forces behind "misery" and "suffering". What is misery to one person, is oppurtunity to another.


    Ok, cool, fair enough. I applaud your prep and I envy you. Well done! Many of us merely talk about prep, and here you are actually doing it. I respect that.

    But I'd also call you the exception to the rule. And, as they say: they exception doesn't disprove the rule.

    Most people are in the camp of having to choose between 2 kind of crappy things. If a mandate is presented, or something very close to a mandate - in this case the vaccine situation - and threats are attached to that mandate (i.e. if you don't comply with the mandate we'll make your life miserable by doing x,y, and z), then you have to make a choice. No way around it.

    The very act of inserting a threat makes the choice inevitable. If the government was just strongly suggesting the jab and not mandating it or threatening those who rejected it, that would be one thing. But by inserting the threat they are *forcing* people to choose.

    The point of the thread was never to suggest which choices people should make, or to judge those choices. The point was to get people to think about what they'd do when presented with such a sh!tty choice, and *why* they'd do it.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Dying on that hill to prevent that douchebag from getting his 100% vaccination rate is choosing the lesser of the evils, because there will be all sorts of potential consequences for you if you don't get vaccinated.

    But you really can't escape a lesser of the evil choice in some of these situations.
    Mike, I'm guessing after the 100th take in semantics battle you had a clear idea behind describing the choice to not take the jab as a lesser of two evils... if you could please, explain that one a bit more to me as though I had the equivalent IQ to a glass of water.. which is also evidently the same IQ as 150 Brandons.. No wonder he needs all that encouragement. Let's Go Brandon!!!

    ... but for seriously though, are you saying evil as a metaphor for the resulting unpleasant experience as a result of picking that hill?.... Or, and these are purely my thoughts now, not what I'm saying is being implied by your choice of word/s, just my brain trying to process it.. is the evil perhaps a likely path many who say no to jab now will have to take to survive later as the net closes in. Like for example having to steal food after being denied entry to stores because not showing papers etc.?



    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

    Actually I am seeing and experiencing a lot of opportunities for improvements to mine and other's way of living, not really the consequences. The experiences is subjective, and unique to the experience. If a tyrannical dictator forces his way onto people, we don't say the people are just suffering the consequences for their actions, because that line of thinking automatically implies justification for the tyrannical dictator's actions. It allows the oppression of people to be blamed on the people - a dangerous way of thinking. Are we being oppressed? I'd say it might be seen this way, yes.
    For now this has largely been my experience too. Since the beginning of the year I've managed to drop about 20kg in excess weight, stop all smoking & drinking, clean up my diet and remove all processed stuffs and sugar etc. Lifting weights and hiking daily. Meditation daily, and studying more... actually, I've never felt better! mentally, spiritually and physically... no wait.. my knee is shot still but that's just wear and tear.

    Granted I have not felt the pressure in same ways others have and choosing to die on the same hill if my experience was in line with theirs might be a bit different.. What I mean is families who have worked (across a few generations even) to build up their wealth and way of life and having done so with leveraged debt... So that when the rug is pulled out from under them and all trade is lost because of shutdowns or future stability is in serious question unless they're compliant well that's a bit of a game changer then..

    So while I maintain I'm not even entertaining the idea of injecting myself and will die on that particular hill, I must acknowledge I'm not at the top of that hill, the climb I'm anticipating will get increasingly more difficult and my resolve may be tested proper.... hence partially the choice for improvement and preparedness.

    The choosing of The Hill was and still is a no brainer though in my opinion. I have no misconception that liberation from tyranny will NEVER come via obedience and participation of this theatrical circus. And any future suffering that may result out of being pushed by overstanders had better kill me because me and my ****e knees are going to climb the only hill that I can see clearly in my vision.. till we can't climbz no more.

    ...here's the thing though. For now most people who were a bit on the fence or just slightly complying to the bare minimum are only doing so because of the proverbial carrot dangled in front of their noses... promised freedom.. returning to normal.. all them lines and moving goal posts... Once they learn the fragility of this freedom and it is revoked because their vaccinated status is invalid until they've received their booster... well I'd say it will annoy a few of them. Then they'd see some of us, each on top of a certain kind of hill... maybe dead or not.. and say to themselves.. hey?.. who's that? ..jeez, what a nice looking hill, better than the pile of crap I been standing in.. let's go climb that one.. and die there instead.
    Last edited by Ankle Biter; 19th November 2021 at 11:36.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    The point was to get people to think about what they'd do when presented with such a sh!tty choice, and *why* they'd do it.
    I'm holding off for all the reasons noted on Avalon but also to stand as long as I can as a statistic in support of overturning the extreme segregation rulings.

    It won't bother me personally to not be allowed into public facilities, but it will eventually exclude me from attending functions with family and that's going to become increasingly difficult to navigate.  Especially aged care facilities.  And then of course there's travel, which is where they've really got us by the short and curlys.

    What I really wanted to share though is a very moving and beautiful post written recently by a father about his son making the decision to "not die on this hill" for love.  He wanted to travel to see his fiance and got very sick after the jab.

    I've tried searching for it but my brain froze and I can't think of the members name.  Maybe someone will see this and link it for me as I think it could belong here.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Are we really just shuffling around the landscape looking for a place to do it, like old or sick animals can be seen doing regularly.

    I'll either die on a hill or I'll die somewhere less heroic. If I plan it so my body falls into a peat bog, someone might find it thousands of years later and give it a swanky name plate at a nobbled academic exhibition centre somewhere.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    The point was to get people to think about what they'd do when presented with such a sh!tty choice, and *why* they'd do it.
    What I really wanted to share though is a very moving and beautiful post written recently by a father about his son making the decision to "not die on this hill" for love.  He wanted to travel to see his fiance and got very sick after the jab.

    I've tried searching for it but my brain froze and I can't think of the members name.  Maybe someone will see this and link it for me as I think it could belong here.
    I believe you are talking about Hym's post here https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1462562

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Thanks PeaceinOz

    I forgot to mention that if I eventually have to get the jabs my anxiety has been somewhat relieved by the idea that placebos may be amongst them to mitigate overwhelming death rates, (discussed in another thread). So I'll pray for the empty shot if I eventually have to play Russian Roulette. But this conflicts me as it doesn't help the activism.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    I think it’s the most natural place to die 🙏 Tibetans, old Persians and many other people in past used to perform “sky burials”.
    Vultures and other birds of prey would gather around those hill tops where corpses would be laid, sometimes chopped to pieces.

    I don’t want to be too illustrative but here in Himalayas we used to have good few such “sacred hill tops” around.

    I warn you, many people have suicided since the pandemics started, not sure how many but suicides increased ten times since.
    It’s never been “because of Covid”. It’s because we are economically exhausted.

    We all are so hoping that someone would help you out is futile.

    I think the same ways. It’s definitely nothing to do with Covid vaccination for me.

    Just been running from near to zero point for almost 2 years now, on very little support from any “friends”.
    At this time and most difficult global situation, having no home, no supports and pennies to count with for food or medicines is a psychological drill and menace.

    My true problem turned to: do I have enough energy left to climb my last favorite hill ? What about the timings ? On most instances whenever I climb up I’m so happy I don’t want to die 😄 But then get more exhausted.
    So next time.

    It does have a point. I don’t want to be a burden to the society or expire on someone’s property since it would make them feel bad and whatever else.

    I would leave most of my “nice stuff” which isn’t a lot ( and no point in selling it if you ask) behind so it’s clean and untouched by any missings so that people can use it and it does not get to newspapers.

    There aren’t many “friends” who would inquire about me at all.

    If I don’t do that, being too exhausted, throwing myself down the hill or to someone’s hands is not an option. Day in hospital costs a lot without insurance and I don’t have Covid 😂


    Timing is everything though.



    PPS: So sorry you’re not around Mike, I’d give you big hug 🧸


    Please, please don’t go to die “because of Covid vaccine”. It’s not a worthy cause to die for. See how much human ignorance the pandemics exposed ?

    It’s because the ignorance has been around the first place together with complete scientific illiteracy and absence of awareness.
    Especially through the last decades of heavy tourism and global traveling, people stopped caring about hygiene a lot and how much viral and bacterial snippets they exchange everywhere.
    I’m not saying that sanitation wasn’t available and those in professional areas and those with actual awareness of the reality we live in did use it.
    As some of you know I had mum who was in transplantation program last 15 years of her life, she had no choice really. So I know a lot about keeping everything as close to sterile as possible.

    At the same time I had friends visiting my home who looked “so bad” at me if I asked them to take shoes off and wash hands, including university educated people etc.
    So embarrassing back then, like “I’m somebody, no one dares to ask those things from me”.
    Many of “those people” worldwide started propagating extremist life styles of that kind: no showers, no soaps, no washing liquids, “I’m naturally dirty clean healthy, don’t bother me with any of that stuff”.
    They never noticed how badly they smelled after some time or their beddings and being “walking zoo of microbiome”.
    They forgot or can’t put two and two together that from the times “they’ve left pure jungle” the planet is not natural and clean anymore.

    In 2018/19 right before the pandemics started these trends sort of peaked. Alcoholism became the “new norm” for many parts of society, high to low.
    People now recollect “the times before” before better and that it is normal NOT TO DRINK.
    People never understood if I said I never drank beer in my life since it tastes so horrid. It all became globally available now, overindulgence abound,
    language turned so indecent, Their topics spiked with “f”s, drugs and sex, music turned to high volume noise.

    I’ve forever avoided bumping to humans at that point, sometimes they bumped to me with those broad plastic drank out smiles and vulgar tunes.
    The same people who put any of their costumes on and go to office everyday some other time I suppose. Anyway. Quite careless, touring their cars and motorcycles without mercy, their children locked inside, trashing everywhere you go,
    tons of garbage ,
    Uruguay and Finland were considerably clean but the UK, US I’ve been through and the rest of EU turned very dirty.
    I called it a sick world. Held through panic attacks.

    Something has improved since, believe me 🙏 Some of the Mother Nature has recovered. Human awareness- at least some of it- recovers almost simultaneously.
    People now remember the times before and how their ancestors lived and what was dear and important to them and still is.

    I think the pandemics and vaccines are in direct cause-effect relationship with illiteracy and ignorance and awareness lost at some point to the idea that “money is the most important”, “money is God”, “money is panacea for every ailment”.
    Guess you all know what I’m talking about.

    Take the vaccine with those bits of CoV, choose wisely, the likeliness that it would harm you is very small. Millions of people did take it here in India, people I know, with no side effects at all.
    No change in opinion even, not that they “wanted it” or believe in it.
    Even so, the effect of any vaccine lasts couple of months to a year at this point.

    I’m not saying it’s all about it for you but anyway. Just a low hurdle to get over really. Do not give up.
    Last edited by Agape; 18th November 2021 at 04:41.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Deciding weather it is worth to die or not to die on this hill, is an interesting question. I feel the hill has been artificially made to force us to detour down manipulated paths by design.


    If the hill were a natural occurring incident there would be a reason to decide how much we were willing to sacrifice to keep our way of life functioning for a better future.


    We might need to look from a different perspective and see that the jab will only be a temporary choice, likely leading to the same predestined place in the New World Order, for want of a better name of the plan, and not to any kind of acceptable freedom.


    When we see how people have not been told the whole truth of what is going on there isn’t much point condemning or making judgements really. But if people are seeing what is happening and decide to ignore the facts, the problem won’t go away. Decisions on how to navigate through this maze of reality we are faced with will have to be made by ourselves if we don’t want them made for us by untrustworthy authorities.


    From that new perspective a number of different choices may be available that include others that are outside the two choices that so called authorities are pointing out to us.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    The hill being presented here of either complying all the way, accepting the changes in the requirements as 'natural' or being totally disenfranchised should be a warning to anyone who knows the dynamics of power. Not only do you have to accept two doses of their elixir, you now have to go along with the 'Boosters' which have become essential it seems, because the double jab has a short range of effect.
    Once you have decided to go along with this, you are then exposing yourself to complying with vaccine passports and the full division of society into two camps - this sounds very familiar.
    It won't be just one booster, you know that.
    The hill here is disguised of course, they tell you because this is about 'Health' all normal precautions are voided.
    This is no Hill, this is The Mountain - Liberal democracy and the freedoms our society fought so desperately for will be ceded, removed, it will take centuries to regain them.
    Last edited by Mike Gorman; 18th November 2021 at 04:25.

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    Default Re: Dying On Hills

    Just one thing more to realize Mike, the time “some people decide to die on this hill” others will be held prosecutable for either helping or not helping them.

    No I’m not asking for this thread to be submerged because the discussion is important and as you’ve said concerns many people, some of whom say “they have nothing to lose”. It doesn’t matter whether they’re rich or poor or plain crazy.

    We have (at least) one gentleman like that here who flew in from Manchester to India ( with dual citizenship so no worries for him), had carrier in fashion industry before motorbike accidents and being chased around by Bollywood top dogs,
    is partially disabled ( not very much) , took one year teacher volunteering then ran to the hills. Has lots of money so he can pay his way through wherever he would decide to go. Self medicates by drinking.
    Sits in one particular restaurant for most of the day basically getting upset about the whole situation for a year now.
    Opposes “vaccinations”. It’s clear now he can’t go anywhere at this point without it.

    Intelligent person, his mother was from Tamil Nadu, father British navy high ranks officer, big ego, big drill.

    Like most people with no backgrounds in either biology or medicine consuming g all the information on “vax conspiracy” feeding of itself, convinced that the NWO is taking over, whatever.
    At the beginning he seemed to be even kind due to the amount of liquor he drank. After couple of months he turned to silent protester and arrogant nay sayer to all other issues around than his own.
    His sole life purpose was minimized to “I don’t want this evil happen to me”.

    Zero empathy to anyone else, millions of people who had to take jab and go. Who cares about all these people getting their vitamins and medicines and the rest.
    It’s only “I don’t want this to spoil my life and image”.
    IQ of very good alpha male who still need to look to the mirror everyday and say I’m so beautiful , true image of the god, beloved of the people, nearly a deity is eventually not more than average no matter what or how much they say.
    Self admiring portraits of a “deity” with religion of their own.
    Interestingly, they can’t tolerate females for a long time as females are on the Masonic second, right
    Actors by birth, displaying myriads of deceptive emotions to prove themselves omnipotent but of course, it’s till there is big money in the pocket.
    When that kind of money is gone, these people do “die for it” because they are morally undermined.

    Just one case out of many. When they feel “oh so good” it’s “we are in it together”.


    I fear someone like that will never see the point anyway.


    When I was in school age, I remember some children were afraid “to see blood” or “afraid of injections” so when vaccinations happened they had to get special treatment or parent coming with them and holding their hand.
    They would still cry like tigers and shed tears all the way home, some parents confessed. Just one or two or three out of thirty, I don’t know.
    The rest of us could not care less. I was in lab with mum as often as possible,
    read books about Pasteur and Fleming and aspired to be microbiologist when I was 7.
    Getting vaccinated did not warranty day off even.


    I know it’s not “just the two jabs” and a whole mandate of circumstances but think what else is really on your plans in life other than “fighting the NWO” and don’t overthink.

    Either of the pro-con theorists seem to be lost in the situation more than everyone else is. Maybe they lost one of their businesses. Their previous plans were shattered. So were other people’s plans. They don’t know “what to do now” but ought to be “something big to show everybody”. Aha.

    Some people still go for expensive holidays or risky adventures, right now as it’s been happening, “out of despair” wasting millions of dollars for it could be their last chance to win.

    Renting helicopters and special securities “to save them” from the pandemics.


    The rest of us for sure are “already dead” ( their own wording) or we “can die on those hilltops. No problem” ( their wording).
    Because we are so imperfect, so disgusting, like ants compared to those amazing alpha dogs.


    Being so strong shouldn’t they go the first really.


    🌟

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