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Thread: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    I think this topic deserves a thread and I hope to outline why; after the backstory is covered by the following posts which are copied over from another thread.

    I understand Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS) is a tricky topic to get around without verbal, visual and energetic markers, and it can be quite challenging, let alone polarising to some, but I appreciate the opportunity to thrash this out here as it is helping me greatly.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Cross posting.
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    I recently watched the film "Hell or High Water". I enjoyed watching Westerns with mates years ago but my metaphysical interests have prevented me from looking into other genres for many years, until Yellowstone piqued an interest to look into what else Taylor Sheridan has written.

    In the film, when dialogue emerges between two Texas Rangers, it appears racist, bigoted, and unnecessarily cruel. So much so that I find it hard to imagine many claiming to be "woke" being able to continue watching the film after this point. Heck some might even run off for therapy for being traumatized. And that's a problem, because the language crafted between Cowboy and Indian is far from hostile.

    Both Rangers have inherited the arc of racism from their cultures, but instead of harbouring aggression toward each other they have bonded in deep friendship, and this is cleverly reflected in the powerful disabling force of Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS). A vocabulary that will be missed by many though, if the outer layer of language, words, is the only tool applied to interpret the relationship.

    I understood the FSS vocabulary between the Rangers because it's similar to Aussie outback speak and I commend Sheridan for his writing prowess in bravely tackling it. For example, I have an older mate who has lived and worked both the sea and rugged outback all his life in ways that would make young boys shudder. A couple of years ago he had a stroke and was flown to the city where I have had to live for the past 12yrs.

    Being one of those fortunate enough to have been exposed to FSS vocabulary, as well as being able to engage fluently, I was able to translate to the city nurses on a daily basis. This ended up being crucial as my friend was going to be categorized with mental issues, and drugged accordingly, because they thought his ramblings were hallucinatory instead of actual fragments of his life in the bush. And when the drugs and damage wore off I was also able to explain his FSS vocabulary so that medical staff could recognize compliments instead of default interpretation of his personality as cranky and nasty. This man would, and could, move mountains to help someone in need, but it is hard to spot in his rugged exterior.

    We eventually got him transferred to a country hospital because, as you might well imagine, the city is kryptonite to him, and now he is back doing what he loves. When I return to the country for a visit though, the first thing I would likely say to my friend is, "FFS aren't you dead yet?"

    And then it would be on, with neither of us missing an opportunity to take the p!ss out of each other. I might say something to someone and he'd say, "Don't listen to that idiot she hasn't even used her brain yet, it's still wrapped up in plastic." The FSS vocabulary that flows constantly between us is recognized and loved by many, but to someone new it can be shocking. People often whisper to mates, "WTF... do these two hate each other, or something?" To which our friends laugh and reply, "Far from it. They're best mates."

    There is another extremely important layer to FSS vocabulary that many don't understand. The gift of being able to break down inherited cultural barriers that we unknowingly carry around as excess baggage. When one of us brings a newcomer into a social den full of people well versed in FSS vocabulary, which I've sadly only experienced in the country, the first thing to be identified is their race, or clothing, or voice inflections, or handicaps, or whatever.

    Then the games begin... and any awkwardness the newcomer may have felt in the first 3 minutes is rapidly dissolved as they start laughing at themselves, as well as everyone else, because no-one is immune from being a target. In other words, all layers of difference and division are quickly dispelled with FSS. Everyone then has a great time communicating from the hidden layer that we are all commonly bonded in...love and friendship. God I miss that!

    Hopefully this brings me to my point, which is the insane ignorance of the language police and Cancel Culture that are trying to distill complex human communication into basic a,b,c's. This is devolution, imo, not evolution toward further understanding the intricate tapestry of words, thoughts, emotions, body language, and love.

    At least Siri will be happy as humans continue to retard their vocabulary, and the power of Friendly Social Sarcasm, let alone comedy, becomes a dying relic so that artificial technology can catch up.

    N.B. Narcissists and sociopaths don't stand a chance in a room full of people fluent in Friendly Social Sarcasm Vocabulary... there's just no room for them, and you have to be super quick to avoid being cut off at the knee caps. So it makes sense that they too would want to partner up with Siri.

    On a good note though, apparently this film was nominated for numerous awards. I have to wonder why...
    Last edited by Gemma13; 19th December 2021 at 07:15.

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    Cross posting.
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Gem I've seen 'Hell Or Highwater' maybe 5 times now. Great movie. I just kept coming back to it over n over again.

    The woke misfits we see today aren't very good at FSS. They're not very good at humor or irony either. They don't understand it and they don't want to make an effort to understand it. Instead, they want to cancel it and bring everyone down to their miserable level. They know that things like humor and sarcasm expose their irrationality, lunacy, and narcissism..things they desperately try to hide behind a veneer of virtue and victimhood.

    When you can't compete in traditional hierarchies (ones based on merit, talent, and effort) you try to invent new hierarchies built on something nearly the opposite. Bearing one's burden nobly, working hard, and personal responsibility have been traded in for complaining, embracing the victim's role, and blaming everyone else for one's shortcomings. A whole new language is required to make that work, and that language cannot include sarcasm, irony, or humor because once evoked those things will instantly reveal the hypocrisy behind such a movement.

    The amusing banter between the cowboy and the Mexican officer is much more of a comfortable shorthand than it is racism or anything else. That seems obvious to me. But some can't see it and many more refuse to see it..because the void left by their lack of humor has been filled with a kind of bitterness that demands no one else enjoy a type of fun they're incapable of

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    Cross posting
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Hey Mike, great that you've seen and appreciate the film.  I am concerned about how the world is going to be able to counter the onslaught of cancel culture moving forward though, but I'm staying hopeful that FSS, irony and comedy will somehow survive.

    Added: I like the directors comments too:

    https://www.flicks.com.au/features/h...ulinity-trump/

    We’ve seen a line that was being tread there, and it comes directly from the script and you know there’s lots of script that we improvised, whether we adjusted. But that stuff we kept as was, because it felt awkward and uncomfortable to most of us who are in the film industry making the film. There was a temptation to kind of soften that a little bit.

    I know Gil [Birmingham] and Jeff [Bridges] were a little bit uncomfortable. We thought, “No, no, let’s go straight at it and use that material and understand that this character appears a little bit close to the edge in terms of racism,” you ask questions about that then you start realising that maybe it’s more race awareness than racist, maybe it’s more affectionate, and it’s about the weird relationship that men have, where you know there’s a bit of tough love that goes on.

    There’s a lot of masculine communication in the film that is not necessarily about even saying what they mean. It feels like you start that journey being a little bit awkward, and then by the time you get to the end of that journey, you realise that what you initially thought is only one part of it, one part of the equation.

    It’s interesting to be touching on those sensitive subjects and then doing something with that. That feels like good storytelling and being able to look at these sensitive issues in the eye is something that feels important
    .

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    Cross posting.
    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    the powerful disabling force of Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS).
    I thought for a moment that ""Friendly Social Sarcasm" has to be a thing. An idea that someone in academia has written about. There had to be a Wikipedia page for it. But no, nothing terms up in the search engine for that term. Bummer.

    But it should be a thing, it needs to be a thing. Perhaps there is another term for it?

    I think I get your idea of FSS. A friend of mine, Italian-American would drive through Brooklyn with friends in a car and would say something disparaging about a black person or a Hasidic Jew. Those of us who knew him, knew that he was channeling the racist remarks he heard as a child from grandparents, and that he was just trying to shock us and give us a laugh. His comments weren't really about the people on the street or their ethnicity, they were about the small minded things he heard said by grandparents many decades before. Is that Friendly Social Sarcasm ? Why is the N-word usually a demeaning term, yet two black people can use it as a term of endearment? Friendly Social Sarcasm? What about the language drag queens use to stereotype and berates others or rural mountain people who intentionally misspell signs at their farmer's market to crank up the hillbilly mystique? I think this term has a lot to say about the complexity of language which the PC fundamentalist just don't get.

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    Cross posting.
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Quote Kryztian:  His comments weren't really about the people on the street or their ethnicity, they were about the small minded things he heard said by grandparents many decades before. Is that Friendly Social Sarcasm ? 
    Not really. FSS is spontaneous wit made up on the spot and even though past references can be incorporated into the quips, generally they are quite unique to the individual, the circumstances, and the environment.

    Quote Kryztian:  Why is the N-word usually a demeaning term, yet two black people can use it as a term of endearment? Friendly Social Sarcasm? What about the language drag queens use to stereotype and berates others or rural mountain people who intentionally misspell signs at their farmer's market to crank up the hillbilly mystique?
    This is a good example of intra-racial/cultural FSS but is unfortunately useless and unappealing, imo, because it is used as a form of elitism against people of different cultures.

    True FSS is universal, refusing to have preferences or favourites as this would defeat its purpose for removing barriers. For example, FSS might bring the concept of racism into sharp focus and then annihilate the ideology of harbouring hostility toward anyone because it doesn't belong in the room.

    And of course FSS doesn't have to be about racism at all. For example, if an individual lets their ego out it will be carved up into little pieces until the person returns to healthy humility and equality.

    Mike may be able to help out with further defining the term as I've just posted quickly off the cuff and will have to come back later. But really appreciate your questions.

    P.s Then there are times when the person delivering the quip, will cleverly turn the quip onto themselves, to highlight the ridiculousness of something someone said.

    Then there are the compliments which will come across as the complete opposite of the compliment being delivered.

    It's a tricky language, but like any language, when you've been exposed to it long enough it becomes very easy to pick up. Bit like learning a different dialect in different regions.

    Sheridan was highlighting this "dialect" in the Hell or High Water film and is why the actors were initially uncomfortable delivering the lines, but thankfully the director didn't soften it because it is exactly what FSS is like.

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    Cross posting.
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    @Kryztian Your questions were great because they forced me to think deeper about something that I am personally very familiar with, having listened to, and engaged in, FSS on a daily basis for many years. It is not a common language/dialect, especially in cities, and this makes it difficult to explain how FSS can have the appearance of being caustic, but has no intention or purpose for scathing bitterness.

    I will try and simplify a further explanation because FSS is very difficult to demonstrate with words alone and even difficult in film because the tone, or energy, if you like, of people fluent in FSS is the key.

    Social Sarcasm can range anywhere from casual humour, to friendly, to bitter, to downright cruelty.

    Friendly Social Sarcasm has one range only and it starts and finishes with this range. No prejudice! At all.

    Words used can only come from the databank that society has educated with, but the intention and meaning of those words are cleverly crafted to reveal the hypocrisy behind movements of division, as Mike explained in his post, and this is the power behind FSS.

    Topic information is also informed by society, be it racism or politics or handicaps, etc and is why the language of FSS is so jarring. It literally rips a gaping hole in preconceived notions and belief systems.

    Because the intention behind FSS starts from a neutral place, from a genuine belief that all men/women are equal, it has the power to not only challenge belief systems, but disable them. Even if it's only during the time that one is exposed to FSS neutrality. And that's a good thing in my book.

    It's easy to understand why FSS is predominantly found in smaller country locations where higher academic learning, mental analysis, and political/economic social engineering are almost non-existent. The non-prejudice remote country people, (you also get the prejuduce ones of course), are educated in labour skills, informed by the land, and are able to genuinely demonstrate love and help to their neighbours... while teasing and taking the p!ss out of them at the same time, lol!

    This is why the city nurses were appreciative of the translations I was able to provide for my friend because they didn't *feel* he should be wrongly diagnosed and medicated for a mental disorder. They were then armed with information to report to medical superiors that prevented it from happening.

    An academic paper on FSS could actually be a good thing, if done by the right person able to capture the true essence of FSS, as it could prove to be a great tool in helping counter some of the ridiculous socially engineered definitions being flung around today.

    I realize now that I probably bit off more than I could chew with my film reference for FSS, but hope this helps.
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Adding to my post above:

    Another really important thing in understanding FSS is the limitation of poetic vocabulary in many outback/remote communities.  Beauty in these locations is experienced and shared in silence... words cannot describe such wonders, so they are infrequently used.  Hence the twisting of harsh words to lighten life circumstances with humour.

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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS) is something I desperately want to learn how to defend for the following reasons:

    1. "Woke Cancel Culture" is cancelling language with a kindergarten level of intelligence. They seem to naively believe that a true reflection of intention can be determined by words and only words. This is dangerously wrong on so many levels and I don't need to fill up this space with examples; but we are all acutely familiar with the double speak of politicians who capture hearts with words, and then destroy them, because they never meant a word they said. And let's not get started on narcissists and sociopaths.

    Do they really think they can eradicate personality defects and fix all the world's problems by just reinventing words, redefining definitions of words, and cancelling anyone who doesn't adjust accordingly

    2. I am very fond of outback/rural communities where FSS is a common dialect and it pains me that there is no place for them in the ever growing communities of woke cancel culture.

    3. I have been cancelled by 2 young loved ones who were rapidly brainwashed after moving to the city but used to thrive in FSS communities; loved the friendship and solidarity in these communities; and laughed along at the *silliness of life* revealed by these communities.

    4. Bullies are quickly annihilated when there are fluent FSS persons close by. We need these people to have a place in society because they have what it takes to protect our gentle, beautiful people who can often be easy targets for bullies.

    The sad irony is that the victim culture need these people more than ever. They can't see that their Pied Piper is created by bullies, leading them into a den of bullies, so that the biggest controlling bullies can eat them for breakfast... and then all their hopes and dreams for contributing toward a better world will end up on the crap heap.

    5. I have censored myself from naturally speaking FSS dialect in the city because I am scared of people not understanding the benign but revealing purpose behind this humour. Sometimes I'm not quite quick enough to stop a FSS quip from escaping and find myself panicking and trying to hide it by saying sorry, sorry, that was a joke.

    I'm tired of thinking I have to apologize and explain myself now, when I'm not abusing anyone. I know this is my fault and it's why I want to find ways to move forward in social settings by fixing this disabling anxiety that I have allowed to creep in and take over... because I never had it before.

    I am speaking about verbal communication here because FSS is profoundly difficult to pen. There is a dangerous line that this language dances with, but never crosses. To cross the line means moving from non-prejudice banter to hostile abuse. A strong balance in the heart is vital to provide a buffer from slipping over the edge.

    This is also why FSS isn't appropriate in forums... unless you're *stupid* enough to start a... "I Am the TRUE Satan, Any Questions?" thread... which evolved into FSS banter penned between friends, when Mike chose to use FSS to take to task an over zealous, God Ego escapee.

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1265449

    It could even have been the Satan thread that turned me into one of your fan-girls Mike. I loved and hated you at that moment because I was frantically thinking about how to do something similar... Hey God, we must be twins, let's talk,... or....
    But I didn't have the writing skill set or courage to tackle FSS on paper You did, thank God, and did it well!


    I'm going to try and write some FSS dialect into the novel I'm writing, but ultimately I would love to see a film where a bunch of fluent FSS-ers travel to the city to defend their rights for free speech. Watching them engage with all manner of people, including politicians, woke-ers, and media personalities, would be educational, to say the least. It would be so cool!
    Last edited by Gemma13; 19th December 2021 at 09:23.

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    In this article link the writer states an opinion: I believe sarcasm is a simply a way of covering contempt or hate.
    This person then lists 3 reasons for why they think people use sarcasm: Insecurity; Latent Anger; and Social Awkwardness. It's a baseless article so I won't post the content.

    https://www.scienceofpeople.com/sarc...y-it-hurts-us/

    This article has interesting merit that hits closer to reality.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ts-of-sarcasm/

    Quote The Surprising Benefits of Sarcasm
    Sarcastic comments boost creativity, a study finds
    By Francesca Gino on November 17, 2015

    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence,” wrote that connoisseur of wit, Oscar Wilde. Whether sarcasm is a sign of intelligence or not, communication experts and marriage counselors alike typically advise us to stay away from this particular form of expression. The reason is simple: sarcasm expresses the poisonous sting of contempt, hurting others and harming relationships. As a form of communication, sarcasm takes on the debt of conflict.

    And yet, our research suggests, there may also be some unexpected benefits from sarcasm: greater creativity. The use of sarcasm, in fact, promotes creativity for those on both the giving and receiving end of sarcastic exchanges. Instead of avoiding sarcasm completely in the office, the research suggests sarcasm, used with care and in moderation, can be effectively used and trigger some creative sparks.

    Sarcasm involves constructing or exposing contradictions between intended meanings. The most common form of verbal irony, sarcasm is often used to humorously convey thinly veiled disapproval or scorn. “Pat, don’t work so hard!”, a boss might say upon catching his assistant surfing the Internet. Early research on sarcasm explored how people interpret statements and found that, as expected, sarcasm makes a statement sound more critical. In one laboratory study, participants read scenarios in which, for instance, (1) one person did something that could be viewed negatively, such as smoking, and (2) a second person commented on the behavior to the first person, either literally (“I see you don’t have a healthy concern for your lungs”) or sarcastically (“I see you have a healthy concern for your lungs”). Participants rated sarcasm to be more condemning than literal statements. In a similar study, participants were encouraged to empathize either with a person behaving in a way that could be construed as negative or with a second person commenting on the first person’s behavior. Both perspectives prompted participants to rate sarcastic comments by the second person as more impolite relative to literal comments.

    Other research has show that sarcasm can be easily misinterpreted, particularly when communicated electronically. In one study, 30 pairs of university students were given a list of statements to communicate, half of which were sarcastic and half of which were serious. Some students communicated their messages via e-mail and others via voice recordings. Participants who received the voice messages accurately gleaned the sarcasm (or lack thereof) 73 percent of the time, but those who received the statements via e-mail did so only 56 percent of the time, hardly better than chance. By comparison, the e-mailers had anticipated that 78 percent of participants would pick up on the sarcasm inherent in their sarcastic statements. That is, they badly overestimated their ability to communicate the tenor of their sarcastic statements via e-mail. What’s more, the recipients of the sarcastic e-mails were also decidedly overconfident. They guessed they would correctly interpret the tone of the e-mails they received about 90 percent of the time. They were considerably less overconfident about their ability to interpret voice messages.

    In recent research, my colleagues and I discovered an upside to this otherwise gloomy picture of sarcasm. In one study, we assigned some participants to engage in either simulated sarcastic, sincere, or neutral dialogues by choosing from pre-written responses on a sheet of paper. Others were recipients of these different types of messages from others. Immediately after participants engaged in these “conversations,” we presented them with tasks testing their creativity. Not surprisingly, the participants exposed to sarcasm reported more interpersonal conflict than those in other groups. More interestingly, those who engaged in a sarcastic conversation fared better on creativity tasks. The processes involved in initiating and delivering a sarcastic comment improved the creativity and cognitive functioning of both the commenter and the recipient. This creativity effect only emerged when recipients picked up on the sarcasm behind the expresser’s message rather than taking mean comments at face value.

    Why might sarcasm enhance creativity? Because the brain must think creatively to understand or convey a sarcastic comment, sarcasm may lead to clearer and more creative thinking. To either create or understand sarcasm, tone must overcome the contradiction between the literal and actual meanings of the sarcastic expressions. This is a process that activates, and is facilitated by, abstraction, which in turn promotes creative thinking. Consider the following example, which comes from a conversation one of my co-authors on the research (Adam Galinsky, of Columbia) had a few weeks before getting married. His fiancée woke him up as he was soundly asleep at night to tell him about some new ideas she has for their upcoming wedding next month –many of which were quite expensive. Adam responded with some ideas of his own: “Why don’t we get Paul McCartney to sing, Barack Obama to give a benediction and Amy Schumer to entertain people.” His comment required his fiancée to recognize that there is a distinction between the surface level meaning of the sentence (actually signing up these people to perform) and the meaning that was intended.

    This is not the first set of studies showing that creativity can be boosted by things that would commonly be considered creativity killers. In one series of studies, for example, researchers found that moderate noise can be an untapped source of creativity, providing a welcome distraction that helps the brain make disparate associations. In addition, alcohol is believed to aid creativity, up to a point, by reducing focus and relaxing the mind.

    Sarcasm can be interpreted negatively, and thus cause relationship costs. So, how do we harness its creative benefits without creating the type of conflict that can damage a relationship? It comes down to trust. Our studies show that, given the same content and tone, sarcasm expressed toward or received from someone we trust is less conflict provoking than sarcasm expressed toward or received from someone we distrust. Of course, if we were to vary the tone and content, it would make a difference too – given an extremely harsh tone and critical content, even trust might not be enough.

    Given the risks and benefits of sarcasm, your best bet is to keep salty remarks limited to conversations with those you know well, lest you offend others—even as you potentially help them think more creatively.
    Then there's this dude's opinion article, which actually hits the mark on several points, but is more about showing off with sarcasm, rather than using its power with a balanced, neutral heart, unencumbered with caustic judgments; which is far more effective and is where the super power of FSS really shines.

    https://www.elitedaily.com/life/cult...son-can/906780

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    Default Re: Cancel Culture vs Friendly Social Sarcasm (FSS)

    Sarcasm might improve creativity because 1) it's kind of an art form ..and 2) you don't want to be outdone by the person you're dialoguing with.

    Sarcasm is a cousin of wit or cleverness. Whether it's being deployed in a light hearted way or a kind of heavy way, it's an invitation to a duel. If it's done well it demands the recipient raise his or her level to match what's being offered. Or they can simply choose not to engage, though this is often interpreted as weakness. It's a forfeit.

    But it can easily be overdone. In order to have the proper effect, it can't be used all the time. We all know people who overuse sarcasm, and they're annoying as f#ck. Half the art is timing; the other half is actually what's being said.

    What's being called sarcasm here is something I've always thought of as shorthand. It often takes time to develop a shorthand with people. And once you cultivate it, it's like an investment that keeps accumulating value. But regardless of who you're dealing with, you'll discover their boundaries pretty quick, and I think that's one of the goals of sarcasm - to accelerate the rate at which you can either connect or not connect with someone. You can either slowly and delicately probe their sensitivities, or you can move forward aggressively with some form of sarcasm. If you start some fires with the sarcasm, with some luck you can put them out and not do too much damage. But then again, maybe not. It's the risk you take in order to speed things up and develop a shorthand with someone.

    But, if you're even average at reading people, you'll know pretty fast how receptive they'll be to that sort of thing and you can pace yourself accordingly.

    The beauty of a sarcastic shorthand is that it allows you to say twice as much with half the energy; it allows you to express frustrations without being overly heavy and serious, and it obliterates any sense of awkward formality. If done right it can be artful, which raises creativity. But it usually has to be cultivated over time to truly have the right effect. Used too soon it causes distrust and confusion.

    And sometimes sarcasm is useful to make a point in a way no other method can (i.e. Satan). But sarcasm should never be the entre; just the side dish. That's the secret to unlocking its magic.
    Last edited by Mike; 21st December 2021 at 07:48.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st December 2021), Gemma13 (21st December 2021), Sue (Ayt) (21st December 2021)

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