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Thread: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Interesting how many similar view I share with you. But there are probably many members here on board with much similarity involved...
    Yes the war in Yugoslavia did not come from the people. As confessed by some intelligence puppets, the politicians of the former country were blackmailed (and probably also threatened) to spread hate speech among "their" people, firing up hatred and fear.
    I will never forget the first Slovenian president, Milan Kucan, who, when he witnessed in court against a Serbian leader, who was later accused of genocide, was completely out of himself, testifying in fear and guilt consciousness. Got me thinking that none of these people are "clean" or not involved. They are used as puppets for the puppet masters.
    The same going on here in this alleged Russia-Ukraine conflict. I think the question is who is behind all this. But many of us sense the answer, not the people or the politicians.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by Docim369 (here)
    Interesting how many similar view I share with you. But there are probably many members here on board with much similarity involved...
    Yes the war in Yugoslavia did not come from the people. As confessed by some intelligence puppets, the politicians of the former country were blackmailed (and probably also threatened) to spread hate speech among "their" people, firing up hatred and fear.
    I will never forget the first Slovenian president, Milan Kucan, who, when he witnessed in court against a Serbian leader, who was later accused of genocide, was completely out of himself, testifying in fear and guilt consciousness. Got me thinking that none of these people are "clean" or not involved. They are used as puppets for the puppet masters.
    The same going on here in this alleged Russia-Ukraine conflict. I think the question is who is behind all this. But many of us sense the answer, not the people or the politicians.
    As I recall Slovenia kicked Arse at the start of that "Civil" war. As I have been taught Tito put the Serbs in charge of the Armed forces (more less) to keep 'm happy. Those Officers became complacent and tried to invade Slovenia with Armor, they got send back home quite fast due to the fact that Armor and high mountains are not a good strategy. I have never been there, seen some docs, looks like a forgotten treasure, very beautiful country. I found Bosnia to look like France, but perhaps that was the melodrama of being a soldier, hehehehehe.

    In case of Russia, Putin is his own puppet master. This is why they want to get rid of him, as they have gotten rid of many thorns in eyes the past 21 years. Saddam was convenient until he was more profitable as a scapegoat. Before they hung him he said something very interesting, despite him being told he wasn't allowed to say anything. He knew the game, not a good man though, not even starting about his Sons. When Trump took office (and you can think what you want about him) it was panic for a good amount of People. their plan to destroy Russia and NK were thwarted immediately. Trump would never attack Russia for the very simple fact that there is no profit in it. So they smeared him being a puppet for Putin. Following his appointment he did something else which was interesting. See, NK is sitting on stockpiles of minerals worth several trillions, in the ground yes, the greedy wanted it (article link below). The only way they could see a win, win is to fool the masses into thinking it was a good moment to attack NK, it was under preparation under Obama and should have been carried out by Glibbery Clinton, but Trump got elected which was not supposed to have happened. What did Trump do? Instead of going to War he made a deal with NK, no loss of life and bottom line was met. In the meantime he was being attacked by fake media (mainstream) continuously whilst he should have gotten the Nobel peace price instead, I mean Obama took a dump and got one.

    What is happening now is basically planned too, they let Ukraine fall for the support of the People, or does anyone think here that the US did not anticipate Putin Invading Ukraine at some stage? So, now they have their way. Mainstream Propaganda is doing their part, the People start to do what they do because they are mindlessly following what is fed to them, fact checking is not something high on any agenda anymore these days. Public opinion and various countries are now on their side, countries, surprisingly India condemns Nato for expanding further in Eastern Europe, I wonder if this sentiment is carried throughout the entire Indian parliament. In any case, they are doing the same thing they did to Saddam, the scenario is a little different, but the fall guy this time is Zelenskyy.

    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.

    And thanks for your reply, I enjoyed reading it.

    Article Minerals NK: https://www.businessinsider.com/nort...true&r=US&IR=T
    Last edited by 9ideon; 25th February 2022 at 16:18.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    'Today, February 24th, 2022, liberal globalism officially collapsed. The whole geopolitical project beginning in 1991 with the fall of the Soviet Union and Francis Fukuyama’s neo-con fantasy of the end of history, where he envisioned that the entire world would now turn to a global neoliberal order that has since culminated in an epidemic of wokeness, that vision died last night, and Russian President Vladimir Putin killed it!'


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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Is this the real reason it's kicked off now after 7-8 years of neo-nazis "ethnic cleansing" Russians in Ukraine, don't know if this link is going to work it's a strange site. Go to "NATO's Dark Blueprint for virus Vaccine Warfare"

    https://thefreedomcycle.com/covid/ge...0his%20channel.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Hmmm



    Quote Three Russian guided-missile cruisers have been arrayed across the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea to counter three NATO carrier strike groups, causing concern in the Pentagon, a U.S. defense official told USNI News on Tuesday.

    As of Monday, the three Slava-class cruisers were operating in and around the Aegean Sea – RTS Moskva (121) in the Black Sea, RTS Marshal Ustinov (055) south of Italy and RFS Varyag (011) off the coast of Syria, near Russia’s naval base in Tartus.

    Moskva is based in the Black Sea, while Marshal Ustinov traveled from the Northern Fleet and Varyag from the Pacific Fleet. Ustinov and Varyag entered the Mediterranean from opposite ends earlier this month.

    The three 11,500-ton Slavas were designed around launchers that can hold 16 SS-N-12 Sandbox anti-ship cruise missiles – each about the size of a telephone pole. Developed in the 1970s, the Slavas and the Sandboxes were designed to take on U.S. and NATO aircraft carriers by overwhelming them with a barrage of high-speed cruise missiles to sink ships.
    https://news.usni.org/2022/02/22/rus...ean#more-92306

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    As I recall Slovenia kicked Arse at the start of that "Civil" war. As I have been taught Tito put the Serbs in charge of the Armed forces (more less) to keep 'm happy. Those Officers became complacent and tried to invade Slovenia with Armor, they got send back home quite fast due to the fact that Armor and high mountains are not a good strategy. I have never been there, seen some docs, looks like a forgotten treasure, very beautiful country. I found Bosnia to look like France, but perhaps that was the melodrama of being a soldier, hehehehehe.
    Tito was half Croat half Slovenian. Under his rule the borders of the republics were made such that Serbs were cut in several republics. He made new nations of Montenegers (who considered themselves elite Serbs in prior centuries) and Muslims (who are Slavic people basically mix of Serbs and Croat who converted to islam during Otoman empire. In 90s these Muslims took the name Bosniaks in order to make themsleves appear more native than Serbs and Croats in republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. In same way Albanian intruders in southern part of Serbia took in 90s name Kosovars to make themselves appear more native to the area ).

    Serbs were most numerous nation in Yugoslavia but they were not dominating in any area of life. Yugoslav army was made from officers that were from all nationalities not Serb dominated. In fact Serbs among army officers and politicians self identified as communists and Yugoslavs not Serbs.

    War in Slovenia was not real war but more of media war. There was federal Yugoslav army with some communist and Yugoslav officers and recruits from all over Yugoslavia serving their duty in military bases in all parts of Yugoslavia also in Slovenia. We are talking about boys that are mostly 18 to 20 years old doing their military duty serving for one year in the army. After Slovenia declared independence Croat prime minister ordered these boys serving military duty to go out from military barracks and go to border post without ammunition symbolically showing that Slovenia is still Yugoslavia. What happened is that Slovenia that wanted to become separate state made its own army that started shooting on these young boys and sieged military bases in Slovenia in which these boys were stationed killing some of them in the process. There and across federal army military bases in Slovenia they were sitting ducks for new Slovenia army. Fake west mainstream media showed it aa a war for independence won by Slovenia while in reality it was slaughter of some young boys. After ten days or so decision was made to move these boys out of Slovenia to finish serving their military duty in less hostile parts of Yugoslavia.


    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.
    NATO doesnot really want war with Russia at this moment because they cannot really win that war. They wanted Russia in war that will make it weaker and they are succesfully using Ukrainians for their proxy war with Russia ever since 2014. Forced intervention of Russia in Ukraine is all they wanted in order to demonize Russia and to put it under economic sanctions in order to weaken it even more.

    War in Ukraine started in year 2014. when NATO made a "Euromaidan" cup to overthrow prorusiian leader of Ukraine Yanukovych. Ever since they had their puppets on power in Ukraine making it antirussian via control of massmedia and by introducing laws that discriminate russian speakers and prorussian political parties and in that way NATO was preparing the country for war with Russia which included arming them and providing them with military training and with paid dogs of war from all arounfd the globe. They made them want to join NATO knowing that Russia cannot accept that there are NATO balistic misles so close to Moscow in the country where 40% of people has russian as native language and 20% has as native language a language that is mix of russian and Ukraninian.

    See it from Russian point of view. NATO installed Ukraine regime is assimilating prorussian people and turning them into antirussian people. It wants to make own nuclear bombs. It wants NATO bases so close to Moscow. If NATO is on your borders it means you have only several minutes to detect firing of ballistic missile and decide what to do about it, whether to press the red button or not. Analisys of Russians reached the conclusions that more they wait the worser the situation will become for them. They tried to negotiate with NATO and Ukraine during January, but their interest was not taken into consideration. Only thing they could do is attack while they can still save the situation. What would USA do if Mexico decided to have Russian bases with ballistic missiles close to their border with USA?
    Last edited by hm337; 27th February 2022 at 01:50.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Fake west mainstream media showed it aa a war for independence won by Slovenia while in reality it was slaughter of some young boys.
    Why am I not surprised, should have known better. I guess this part of my life (being over there) made it very clear something was not right about this World.

    Quote NATO doesnot really want war with Russia at this moment because they cannot really win that war.
    When I mention NATO or the UN I basically mean self proclaimed Elitists. I have no illusion that it's all hijacked. By now the Neo-Liberals have taken over many decision makers countries. The infection is so widespread these days that it is almost impossible to get something in between, the only way to destroy them is to turn their own system against them, Ghandi their arses, when their precious money system crumbles we can then declare all their bankaccounts and their currencies illegal.

    But, that's just daydreaming, what I mean with that "they" want a war with Russia is basically because they are exempt of seeing failure. Yes, most of us, military background or People studying certain things well, know we cannot win against Russia and the Block, I was told many things by certain People during my time serving with them, Officers whom came from Cold War sits and worked on Sowjets and Warchau pact for decades. One thing they made surely clear, we couldn't win a war in Europe. That has not changed, still, they want a war. The plan was to infiltrate and destroy Russia from the inside, Ukraine was to become a integral part in this scheme. Soros's handprint was all over this, Hungary threw him out because of the same shenanigans. When Russia was destroyed from the inside, then they would install various puppets in the newly formed "Democratic" countries. China would have been in a lot of trouble because they'd be next to deal with.

    Since Snowden destroyed that possibility, they stayed the course, war with Russia is now the only option left for them for the simple fact, if they do not act, eventually the Block will come. One of the things about the psychopathic psyche is control, when that many psycho's are stalled together working towards a common outcome, well, let's just say that they keep their make believe World intact by confirming nonsense to each other, as a result that same nonsense is dripping on to the general public, we can all see this happening around us, very frightening really, because we a re surrounded by People acting on emotions only (it does trigger when not a psycho I guess).

    So yes, although I agree that sane People see that Nato can most likely not win a War, the self proclaimed elite does not see it that way, guess who must die in their futile wars? Yes, those same unfortunate cool aid gulpers. The Ukrainian People and their leader being served up as a possible excuse for that war they want.
    Last edited by 9ideon; 9th June 2023 at 19:07.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.
    This is the most chilling observation ive read here.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by David Trd1 (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.
    This is the most chilling observation ive read here.
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic, one of those days I guess, but in any case, thx, :-)

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    Quote Posted by David Trd1 (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.
    This is the most chilling observation ive read here.
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic, one of those days I guess, but in any case, thx, :-)
    I've just read an article about how the US could have manoeuvred Russia into the invasion of Ukraine. I say "could" because it's theory, & from everything else we have seen from the US (gov, military, foreign relations etc) in recent years they just don't seem that smart tbh.

    If this was their intention it's an extremely dangerous one that could backfire horribly esp if the Block countries decide they really have had enough of NATO & let rip re the original post on this thread.

    It seems clear the US in it's "end of empire" days, lets just hope they don't take the planet out with them.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/crisis...ermany/5770269

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    Quote Posted by David Trd1 (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.
    This is the most chilling observation ive read here.
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic, one of those days I guess, but in any case, thx, :-)
    I've just read an article about how the US could have manoeuvred Russia into the invasion of Ukraine. I say "could" because it's theory, & from everything else we have seen from the US (gov, military, foreign relations etc) in recent years they just don't seem that smart tbh.

    If this was their intention it's an extremely dangerous one that could backfire horribly esp if the Block countries decide they really have had enough of NATO & let rip re the original post on this thread.

    It seems clear the US in it's "end of empire" days, lets just hope they don't take the planet out with them.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/crisis...ermany/5770269
    I wouldn't be surprised, these plans are shelved, they have probably been cooked up ages ago, implementable at will. They have think tanks to cook up such scenarios, it be built around intent. For example; "Starting a war without beginning one". They'd be brainstorming scenarios. If my theory about this is right, then this has obviously been a b-plan, the original plan has always been implementing NATO in Ukraine and destabilizing Russia then create a clean take over and have the country carved up for controlling purposes. If that would fail they'd still need a backup plan in which they'd still come out as the saviors of Mankind. That's what could very well be as it is now.

    And yes I feel you have a valid point by mentioning the Block becoming tired of Western two faced policies.
    Last edited by 9ideon; 28th February 2022 at 06:00.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    Quote Posted by David Trd1 (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.
    This is the most chilling observation ive read here.
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic, one of those days I guess, but in any case, thx, :-)
    I've just read an article about how the US could have manoeuvred Russia into the invasion of Ukraine. I say "could" because it's theory, & from everything else we have seen from the US (gov, military, foreign relations etc) in recent years they just don't seem that smart tbh.

    If this was their intention it's an extremely dangerous one that could backfire horribly esp if the Block countries decide they really have had enough of NATO & let rip re the original post on this thread.

    It seems clear the US in it's "end of empire" days, lets just hope they don't take the planet out with them.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/crisis...ermany/5770269
    I wouldn't be surprised, these plans are shelved, they have been cooked up ages ago, implementable at will. They have think tanks to cook up such scenarios, it be built around intent. For example, starting a war without beginning one. They'd be brainstorming scenarios. If my theory about this is right, then this has obviously been a b-plan, the original plan has always been implementing NATO in Ukraine and destabilizing Russia then create a clean take over and have the country carved up for controlling purposes. If that would fail they'd still need a backup plan in which they'd still come out as the saviors of Mankind. That's what could very well be as it is now.

    And yes I feel you have a valid point by mentioning the Block becoming tired of Western two faced policies.
    It's obviously an old plan because they have had this on the back burner all this time ......

    Quote On June 30, 1941 Stepan Bandera declared the formation of the Ukrainian State in Lviv. Stepan Bandera made his lieutenant Yaroslav Stetsko the Premier. After the war the Bandera groups formed their Government in Exile that was given quiet legitimacy by both the US and Canadian governments shortly after WW2.



    https://web.archive.org/web/20150627...was-afraid-of/

    So, the aren't in fact "neo- nazis" they are the original item, it's been a continuous unbroken link of a movement from WW2 !
    Last edited by Spiral; 27th February 2022 at 17:48.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    Quote Posted by David Trd1 (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    What remains now is interesting to observe, because if I am right Nato (USA) needs to carry out their own agenda, they wanted a war with Russia, now's their chance.
    This is the most chilling observation ive read here.
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic, one of those days I guess, but in any case, thx, :-)
    I've just read an article about how the US could have manoeuvred Russia into the invasion of Ukraine. I say "could" because it's theory, & from everything else we have seen from the US (gov, military, foreign relations etc) in recent years they just don't seem that smart tbh.

    If this was their intention it's an extremely dangerous one that could backfire horribly esp if the Block countries decide they really have had enough of NATO & let rip re the original post on this thread.

    It seems clear the US in it's "end of empire" days, lets just hope they don't take the planet out with them.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/crisis...ermany/5770269
    I wouldn't be surprised, these plans are shelved, they have been cooked up ages ago, implementable at will. They have think tanks to cook up such scenarios, it be built around intent. For example, starting a war without beginning one. They'd be brainstorming scenarios. If my theory about this is right, then this has obviously been a b-plan, the original plan has always been implementing NATO in Ukraine and destabilizing Russia then create a clean take over and have the country carved up for controlling purposes. If that would fail they'd still need a backup plan in which they'd still come out as the saviors of Mankind. That's what could very well be as it is now.

    And yes I feel you have a valid point by mentioning the Block becoming tired of Western two faced policies.
    It's obviously an old plan because they have had this on the back burner all this time ......

    Quote On June 30, 1941 Stepan Bandera declared the formation of the Ukrainian State in Lviv. Stepan Bandera made his lieutenant Yaroslav Stetsko the Premier. After the war the Bandera groups formed their Government in Exile that was given quiet legitimacy by both the US and Canadian governments shortly after WW2.
    http://www.ukrainewar.info/the-nazis-even-hitler-was-afraid-of

    So, the aren't in fact "neo- nazis" they are the original item, it's been a continuous unbroken link of a movement from WW2 !
    That link is dead.
    Mod note from Bill:
    The article (published on 13 April 2015) has been taken down, but I found it on archive.org:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20161001...-was-afraid-of
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 27th February 2022 at 18:37.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)

    That link is dead.
    I've swapped the link, but not sure how long that will last, so I've cut & pasted the whole thing because it's too good to lose.

    EU politicians that supported the Maidan Revolution are voicing concerns bordering on fear about how much control Ultra Nationalists have over the government in Kiev. Chancellor Merkel’s government is telling her she can no longer afford to ignore the Ultra Nationalists in Ukraine. They are scared Germany will be responsible for setting up a new Reich. It’s time to strip away the rest of the veneer and take a look at what’s really there.

    Forget about the Nazi symbolism, and ultra-nationalist exuberance. I will even grant supporters of the current government that much.

    Every important ministry, from education and social policy to policing, prosecution and national defense, is headed by Ultra Nationalists. In every aspect of national life, Ultra Nationalists now determine what it means to be Ukrainian and all the policies needed to enforce it.

    Even Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk falls among this moderate majority. For generations his own family has had a proud tradition of service to the Ultra- Nationalist cause and has won awards for their service. Before Maidan it hurt his chances for election. After Maidan he didn’t need to worry about election.

    What is Scary
    In an OpEd in the LA Times, entitled “Ukraine’s Threat from Within,” Director of the School of International Relations at USC Robert English very concisely warns that “the way Ukrainian Ultra Nationalists whitewash Bandera history, which is their past, makes the present and future all that much more scary.”

    The Banderas, or Banderites, are activists in the Ukrainian Ultra Nationalist movement that is now in control of the government in Ukraine. Under the militant leadership of Stepan Bandera in World War II, the ultra-nationalists organized the Ukrainian Waffen SS Galician, Nichtengall, and Roland Divisions that collaborated with the Nazis and were responsible for the genocide of over 500,000 people. Following the war, however, Ukrainian Nazis were the only group to escape trial at Nuremburg for crimes against humanity. Moreover, neither the Banderas, the Ukrainian Waffen SS, nor any other Ukrainian collaborators have ever apologized for their participation in genocide.

    In the landmark work on the subject , Genocide Committed by Ukrainian Nationalists on the Polish Population During World War II, Ryszard Szawlowski characterizes it this way:

    “…the Germans have long admitted to their crimes, and have apologized for them publicly …. [The] president of the Federal Republic of Germany, Roman Herzog, [said] in his speech in Warsaw on August 1, 1994 … ‘I bow before the fighters of the Warsaw Uprising, and before all the Polish war victims. I beg forgiveness for what the Germans did.’ Russian president Boris Yeltsin, when he kissed monsignor Zdzislaw Peszkowski on the hand, whispered the words ‘I apologize’ ….

    “Ukrainian genocide committed against the Poles during World War II surpassed German and Soviet genocide …. [It] was marked by the utmost ruthlessness and barbarity, and … up until the present day, it has been denied or, at best, presented with reminders that all is “relative’ or other such evasions.”

    According to Szawlowski’s description of the methods the Banderites employed against the Poles at Volhynia, treachery was the most frequently used. The Banderites told the Poles they were one people and family with them and that it would be treason if they left. The Bandera groups even promised to protect them–in writing!

    What else separates the Banderas from every other genocidal perpetrator of the war is this: Even though the German SS had units dedicated to genocide, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) approached this mission with a zeal and barbarity that Hitler’s own units could not muster. They routinely tortured people with saws and axes, and used the most painful methods they could devise as means to kill them.

    The Bandera would attack using “self defense groups” that were locally organized. These civilian Banderas were the main force used to attack and slaughter the Poles. If any of the massacre victims managed to survive, they were torched, robbed, and killed by follow-up groups of women and children.

    Szawlowski’s work on the genocide committed by Ukrainian nationalists during World War II is brought up to date by the recent observations of Ukrainian Wiktor Poliszczuk.

    “… he condemns the dangerous activities of the post-UPA [Ukrainian Insurgent Army] nationalists in present-day Ukraine, taking place not only in Lvov, but even in Kiev, ‘Galician Fundamentalism,’ and other such phenomena. Also criticized by him are the promoting of the totalitarian and genocidal doctrines of the Ukrainian Dmytro Dontsov, the erecting of monuments to the SS-men of the 14th Ukrainian SS Division “Galizien” (“Halychyna”), the OUN [Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists] and UPA leaders: Yevhen Konovalets, Andryi Melnyk, Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych and others, and the glorifying of the murderers of Poles, Jews, Russians and Ukrainians as national heroes of the Ukraine, after whom streets and squares are named, awaking the spirit of the Dontsov and Bandera era, so much hated by people.”

    This was written only a few years ago.

    Every major scholarly work–a prime example is the papers of Pers Anders Rudling–show that the Banderas murdered 500,000 people without even the pretext of an apology. They have lied and tried to change history in an effort to make Stepan Bandera and the Waffen SS heroes of the Great War. Among other tactics, they have tried to petition the UN to reclassify Bandera and take his name off the UN’s list of leading Nazi collaborators and perpetrators of genocide.Legitimizing these men would irrevocably change the history of the Great War.

    According to Huff Post ,

    “Dmitri Yarosh, leader of Right Sector, met with Israel’s ambassador to Ukraine, Reuven Din El, and told him that their movement rejects anti-Semitism and xenophobia and will not tolerate it.”

    Right Sector became famous at the beginning of the Euro Maidan protests and subsequent revolution. It serves as the umbrella group for the combined militant Ultra Nationalist groups that existed in Ukraine prior to the revolution and that insist on a pure Ultra Nationalist Ukrainian nation under the most rigid conformity to Stepan Bandera’s philosophy. Mr. Yarosh is the leader of Tryzub (Trident) which is the core Right Sector group. He has spent twenty years doing nothing else but preparing for the revolution that will sweep Ukraine’s government into extreme Ultra Nationalism.

    Despite his words to the Israeli ambassador, Dmitri Yarosh has been very clear from his first interviews that he is guided only by Bandera’s writings and the writings of the group’s founding leaders. He adheres to nothing else. Mr. Yarosh is adamant about the fact that Stepan Bandera was not an anti-Semite.

    Both the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and the State of Israel accept at face value that, given Yarosh’s claim that Bandera was not an anti-Semite–a claim he himself believes–the Jewish community can now relax about any contemporary threat from Ukrainian nationalists.

    But can the State of Israel, or Abe Foxman, chairman of the ADL, or anyone else sticking his fingers into this pie explain away the deaths of over 200,000 Jews at Banderite hands? No! The ADL describes its main purpose as fighting anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, and defending democratic ideals. Counterpose to that the entire history of the Ukrainian Ultra Nationalist movement, including its history of today. When you do, can there be any assurances from its representatives that don’t ring hollow?

    Babi Yar

    The thinking today is true to pre-WW2 form: “This can’t happen again.” Part of what is clouding the issue is the very Jewish backgrounds of some in the Kiev government–including Yatsenyuk. A few of the Oligarchs-turned-governors even have Israeli citizenship.

    During WW2, Babi Yar was the single most horrific act of holocaust at the time. Even today, the Banderite response to Babi Yar is “I am proud of the fact that among 1,500 Polizei executioners in Babiy Yar there were 1,200 OUN men but only 300 Germans.” This quote is from a Rivne city official named Shkuratiuk, and appears in the book Organized Anti-Semitism in Contemporary Ukraine: Structure, Influence and Ideology by Pers Anders Rudling.

    The atrocities at Babi Yar, and the accompanying brutality, were left to SS Nachtigall and the polizei. Both were Banderite. The reason was simple. The brutal work of genocide at this level made even hardened German SS uncomfortable. This fact is even obscured in the Holocaust Encyclopedia at the United States Holocaust Museum.

    During the period September 29-30, 1941, the first massacre at Babi Yar killed over 30,000 Jews. Over the next few years the genocide piled up. Victims from the Roma (Gypsies) alone numbered almost 200,000. Banderite apologists have offered a range of rationalizations, from “Ukrainians suffered too” to the surreal “Bandera’s men stepped back and the Jews did it themselves.” No kidding. Babi Yar was racial suicide.

    What separates Germany from the Bandera Nationalists in Ukraine is that Germany has taken responsibility for the atrocities they committed. Until recent events, they could say believably, “Never Again.” Contrast this to Lviv, Ukraine, where surviving members of the WW2 Galician SS, willing participants in genocide, still parade on holidays, proudly displaying medals given them by the German Third Reich.

    Instead of apologies, the Ukrainian OUN/Banderites/UCCA offer apologetics and write handbooks on how to escape responsibility for grievous crimes against humanity. They paint themselves, quite literally, as both victims and heroes, not perpetrators.

    Ironically, one such handbook is entitled “Genocide- NEVER AGAIN- The Teacher and Student Workbook”, printed by the UCCA (Ukrainian Congressional Committee of America) on the 75th anniversary of the Ukrainian Genocide. The “NEVER AGAIN” in the title is of course the cry of people that managed to survive the genocide. Can it also be used by the people that committed it, unrepentantly?

    How can a group that unquestionably committed the most brutal torture and barbaric murder in WW2 morph into champions of social justice?

    They continually deny involvement and try to convince the world of the same thing they teach their own people. They were victims and heroes. At the same time, they glorify their SS heroes at will. The 1st Division link is their homage to the Galician SS.

    Typical UCCA Banderite propaganda looks like this:

    “The only important OUN idea from the past that survived is a desire for a free and democratic Ukraine where all Ukrainians, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds, can live in peace.”

    This response from a former Arizona UCCA state chapter president really needs to be considered in the light of history and present circumstances. That one statement says it all. The only question he leaves unanswered is, Who is a Ukrainian? Do they include all families that have lived there for hundreds of years and speak Russian? How about people that do not support Bandera?

    How Does Bandera Fit in 70 Years Later?

    On June 30, 1941 Stepan Bandera declared the formation of the Ukrainian State in Lviv. Stepan Bandera made his lieutenant Yaroslav Stetsko the Premier. After the war the Bandera groups formed their Government in Exile that was given quiet legitimacy by both the US and Canadian governments shortly after WW2. Part of this was due to their support during the cold war against the Soviet Union, and part due to the size of their lobbying effort. They pump a lot of money into Congress. That they were legitimized by the US Government is clear from all the released Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act documents I have come across.

    It is very clear that the most important branches of the Diaspora government are in the US and Canada. Until 2003 the exiled leadership of the Bandera Government of Ukraine was only one step away from the person of Stepan Bandera himself. The supreme leadership of Bandera’s Ultra Nationalists worldwide changed hands twice after his assassination. Both supreme leaders had been his closest associates.

    The first was Yaroslav Stetsko, Bandera’s Premier in exile. He took over control of the Ultra Nationalist Government in Exile on the death of Stepan Bandera and held the position until his own death in 1986. Upon his death, his wife Slava Stetsko took over the leadership role and lived to bring the worldwide movement home to Ukraine.

    Most recognizable Ukrainian politicians, including Victor Yushhenko and Yulia Tymoshenko , are protégés of Slava Stetsko. This will explain why Mr. Yuschenko made Stepan Bandera a “Hero of Ukraine.” The EU sharply objected to this at the time, because of Bandera’s involvement in genocide, and Victor Yanukovych subsequently rescinded the award. That didn’t work out well for him.

    The 1st generation Bandera government, which pledged fidelity to Adolf Hitler and committed rampant and brutal genocide that it still denies, was alive and well until 2003. It ruled and raised funds from the Ukrainian Diaspora, which constitutes a third of the Ukrainian population worldwide, or 20 million people.

    Today, the Kiev government is only the 2nd generation of Bandera government. Looked at realistically, it still promotes the teachings, policies, and doctrines of Stepan Bandera less than 10 years removed from their institutional moorings.

    The Bandera leaders of today were cultivated to make sure they would not stray far. The present government in Kiev can also be counted to be true to its history.

    School Kids That Scare Me

    One of the changes happening now in Ukraine is forced Ukrainization. If you remember Nazi history and the Hitler Youth, you’ll understand what Ukrainization means. It demands the same unquestioning loyalty from little children, a loyalty even greater than that to family.

    What is forced Ukrainization at the pre school level ? Irina Farion was a favorite for the Minister of Education slot, until a discussion behind closed doors in the Senate. Sergei Kvit from Trizub (Yarosh core group), a real Ultra-Nationalist, got the nod instead.

    Here is Irina Farion speaking to a little child: What is your name? Misha. It’s not Ukrainian. You are Mihailo!

    And your name? Masha. You are Marusa. But my mom calls me this! If you want to be Masha, go to Moscow!

    Don’t call other children Russian names. It is degrading. It’s like calling them an animal that lives in the woods and walks on all fours.

    Imagine a government official speaking to children like this. Children are now taught that if they have Russian names they are second-class citizens. All of the children of Ukraine will grow up to be Ultra Nationalists. Those instilled with National Socialism will get a better education, a better job, a better life.

    What Does This Mean for South and East Ukraine?

    South and East Ukraine don’t want their children taught these things. Would you? Vladimir Putin and Russia are the only parties putting the brakes on that right now. The same Europe and America that 70 years ago violently overthrew the forces of bigotry and indoctrination are now saying that the Ukrainian people must accept them quietly!

    Dmitri Yarosh (Trizub and Pravy Sektor, and Assistant Secretary of Council on Defense and National Security): “

    It is better for us to build our own National State! Does that mean knives to the Moskals and ropes to the Jews? Well, not so unsophisticated. There must be a Ukrainian authority in Ukraine; the titular nation must dominate in business, politics, and culture…then–forced Ukrainization. Russians do not like it? Well, go back to F#cking Russia! Those that don’t want to go–we can help them. Russians are not even Slavs…. Next we will liberate our lands: Voronezh, Kursk, Belogorod Oblast, and Kuban. These are all Ukrainian lands!”

    The only problem is all of these Oblasts (regions) are in Russia!

    The East vs. West Debacle

    No, I am not talking about the US and Russia. The spit propaganda that became western media portrays this as Cold War redux. Are you for the West? Good, you support democracy! Not so fast.

    This was never about West Ukraine vs. Southeast Ukraine. Most of the time I have spent in Ukraine was in the West. They are the least represented people in media today, and they lose the most all the way around. They are also my friends.

    Propaganda obscures the fact that in Ukraine the people that suffered most under Stepan Bandera lived in Western Ukraine. They became victims, because they were within his reach. Today, western Ukrainians are still the most vulnerable. Banderites stem from Galicia, and Lviv is their capital. Everywhere the Banderas are, people are beaten, robbed and murdered. Intimidation runs rampant.

    Today, if the Bandera want legitimate representative government, why are they robbing every armory? Why did Dmitri Yarosh promise he would send a battalion of fighters to Donetsk to stop the protests? Got police?

    Why did Banderas shoot unarmed men in Kharkov and Donetsk last night? They are not police and have no state authority. But like the masked Maidan people who are robbing banks across the country, they are left alone and, if caught, released.

    Russia

    The Russian invasion of Crimea took a turn for the weird yesterday. The Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksyonov, directed Crimea’s volunteer militia to arrest any person they see that looks like a Russian soldier!

    Crimean authorities have heard that Pravy Sektor is masquerading as Russian soldiers, trying to provoke conflict. The now official Ukrainian government organization tried to set off a bomb at a cafe in Crimea 2 days ago.

    Russian soldiers are staying on their bases, as per the current agreement Russia has with Ukraine. Their “invasion” stopped at the gates of the military bases.

    The West

    This isn’t about East vs. West. The choice is simpler than that. It is about life and death. There are no compromises to make. If Kiev declares Stepan Bandera and all associated groups are illegal and genocidal war criminals, the southeast in Ukraine will relax. But, quite to the contrary, the first thing the Kiev government did was to make laws that legalized the teaching of Nazi propaganda. Without representation, they decided that 10 percent of people’s pay in the southeast would be taken without consent and given as support to the families of people that overthrew a constitutional government.

    Ukraine is not West vs. East. They want you to make the same decision with them. Are you for a world ruled by Ultra Nationalists? Ukraine says no. Are you for a government that supports the doctrines of the 3rd Reich? Will you support one? Are you supporting one?

    If the Ukrainian government that was propelled into power is not Ultra Nationalist, why are they making every move to show otherwise? Does the US government support Ultra Nationalist values? If not, why are they showing otherwise?

    Clarification starts with both governments adhering to the rule of law. Otherwise, as I once heard someone I respected put it: “You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day it is still a pig.”

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario


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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Seems that China is angry again over US Ships sailing through the strait of Taiwan. Normally they protest and all, this time however, well look for yeselves.


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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    From RT ......China not going to tolerate an Eastern version of NATO

    Quote Beijing has warned the US against creating an Indo-Pacific version of NATO and supporting Taiwan While China has made it clear that there is no direct correlation between Ukraine and Taiwan, noting that Taiwan is an integral part of China, its silence on Russia’s use of force should give pause to those who may doubt Beijing’s willingness to resort to similar action when it comes to defending its own territorial claims.

    As the US and NATO struggle to deal with the unfolding crisis in Ukraine, China’s Foreign Minister, Wang Yi, has issued a warning to the Biden administration not to repeat the mistakes made in Europe by attempting to create a Pacific version of NATO to contain and constrain China. Wang’s comments were made at his annual media conference as China convened the National People’s Congress, the country’s top legislative body, in Beijing on Monday. Calling such plans “perverse actions” that “run counter to the common aspiration of the region for peace, development, cooperation and win-win outcomes,” Wang declared that if they were implemented by the US, “they are doomed to fail.” Read more Australia demands China end ‘chilling silence’ Wang also criticized the US for expanding its ties, including military cooperation and weapons sales, with Taiwan. Such policies, Wang warned, “not only push Taiwan into a precarious situation, but will also bring unbearable consequences for the US side,” adding, somewhat ominously, “Taiwan will eventually return to the embrace of the motherland.”

    China has made no secret about its claim to Taiwan, or its ambition to make good on that claim through any means necessary, including military force. While the prospects of any near-term military action by China against Taiwan have been viewed as remote, the Russian offensive in Ukraine has caused many observers to reconsider that position.

    The Chinese concerns are not imaginary, but rather drawn from a direct reading of the guidance published by the Biden administration in the Spring of 2021. “Our democratic alliances,” President Joe Biden declared in his interim national security strategic guidance, “enable us to present a common front, produce a unified vision, and pool our strength to promote high standards, establish effective international rules, and hold countries like China to account.” “That is why we will reaffirm, invest in, and modernize the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and our alliances with Australia, Japan, and the Republic of Korea—which, along with our other global alliances and partnerships, are America’s greatest strategic asset,” he added. A plain reading of that text clearly shows that the US was pursuing a NATO-like alliance in the Pacific solely focused on the issue of “holding China to account.” It is in this light that one must view partnerships such as the “Quad”, a military partnership between the US, Japan, India, and Australia, and the newly constituted AUKUS alliance composed of Australia, the United Kingdom, and the US. Both organizations exist solely to coordinate a military response to China’s expansive presence in the Pacific region.

    As if to drive home the point that it will not stand by idly while the US conspires against it, China announced on Friday it was conducting a week-long military exercise in the South China Sea, near the territorial waters of Vietnam. While the scope and scale of the exercise is limited—encompassing a six nautical mile radius—its messaging was clear: China is prepared to use force, if necessary, to defend its disputed territorial claims in the region. The announcement of the exercise came on the heels of a series of military moves near Taiwan, where the transit of a US naval vessel through the Taiwan Strait was countered by the sortieing of Chinese military aircraft into Taiwan’s air-defense identification zone.

    Many experts and observers were surprised by Russia’s decision to intervene militarily in Ukraine. When it comes to China’s readiness to go to war over Taiwan, there should be no such uncertainty.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    From RT ......China not going to tolerate an Eastern version of NATO

    Quote Beijing has warned the US against creating an Indo-Pacific version of NATO and supporting Taiwan While China has made it clear that there is no direct correlation between Ukraine and Taiwan, noting that Taiwan is an integral part of China, its silence on Russia’s use of force should give pause to those who may doubt Beijing’s willingness to resort to similar action when it comes to defending its own territorial claims.

    As the US and NATO struggle to deal with the unfolding crisis in Ukraine, China’s Foreign Minister, Wang Yi, has issued a warning to the Biden administration not to repeat the mistakes made in Europe by attempting to create a Pacific version of NATO to contain and constrain China. Wang’s comments were made at his annual media conference as China convened the National People’s Congress, the country’s top legislative body, in Beijing on Monday. Calling such plans “perverse actions” that “run counter to the common aspiration of the region for peace, development, cooperation and win-win outcomes,” Wang declared that if they were implemented by the US, “they are doomed to fail.” Read more Australia demands China end ‘chilling silence’ Wang also criticized the US for expanding its ties, including military cooperation and weapons sales, with Taiwan. Such policies, Wang warned, “not only push Taiwan into a precarious situation, but will also bring unbearable consequences for the US side,” adding, somewhat ominously, “Taiwan will eventually return to the embrace of the motherland.”

    China has made no secret about its claim to Taiwan, or its ambition to make good on that claim through any means necessary, including military force. While the prospects of any near-term military action by China against Taiwan have been viewed as remote, the Russian offensive in Ukraine has caused many observers to reconsider that position.

    The Chinese concerns are not imaginary, but rather drawn from a direct reading of the guidance published by the Biden administration in the Spring of 2021. “Our democratic alliances,” President Joe Biden declared in his interim national security strategic guidance, “enable us to present a common front, produce a unified vision, and pool our strength to promote high standards, establish effective international rules, and hold countries like China to account.” “That is why we will reaffirm, invest in, and modernize the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and our alliances with Australia, Japan, and the Republic of Korea—which, along with our other global alliances and partnerships, are America’s greatest strategic asset,” he added. A plain reading of that text clearly shows that the US was pursuing a NATO-like alliance in the Pacific solely focused on the issue of “holding China to account.” It is in this light that one must view partnerships such as the “Quad”, a military partnership between the US, Japan, India, and Australia, and the newly constituted AUKUS alliance composed of Australia, the United Kingdom, and the US. Both organizations exist solely to coordinate a military response to China’s expansive presence in the Pacific region.

    As if to drive home the point that it will not stand by idly while the US conspires against it, China announced on Friday it was conducting a week-long military exercise in the South China Sea, near the territorial waters of Vietnam. While the scope and scale of the exercise is limited—encompassing a six nautical mile radius—its messaging was clear: China is prepared to use force, if necessary, to defend its disputed territorial claims in the region. The announcement of the exercise came on the heels of a series of military moves near Taiwan, where the transit of a US naval vessel through the Taiwan Strait was countered by the sortieing of Chinese military aircraft into Taiwan’s air-defense identification zone.

    Many experts and observers were surprised by Russia’s decision to intervene militarily in Ukraine. When it comes to China’s readiness to go to war over Taiwan, there should be no such uncertainty.
    The rhetoric in general towards the US and Allies has changed over the last couple weeks. What interests me is now that a couple countries seem to be done with the lies produced here so they are aligning themselves with Russia. India being the best example for now, they're probably still upset Apu got dropped from the Simpsons. No but seriously, all these countries taking a stance against "us", openly, it's like some of them feel a "moment" coming. It is very suspicious in a way.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    The rhetoric in general towards the US and Allies has changed over the last couple weeks. What interests me is now that a couple countries seem to be done with the lies produced here so they are aligning themselves with Russia. India being the best example for now, they're probably still upset Apu got dropped from the Simpsons. No but seriously, all these countries taking a stance against "us", openly, it's like some of them feel a "moment" coming. It is very suspicious in a way.
    It certainly has changed, not just the likes of the BRICS countries either, Poland isn't doing what the US is telling them to do (do they honestly believe that the Poles have forgotten the Yalta Treaty ? LOL) & more tellingly Germany & the Netherlands have been very outspoken about not letting Ukraine into the EU in a way that takes a real swipe at the US (albeit in diplomatic language)

    I read the text on RT but can't repost here due to the current fascist dictatorship laws to protect us from words.

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    Default Re: How the West was Won Revisited: A WWIII Scenario

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ideon (here)
    The rhetoric in general towards the US and Allies has changed over the last couple weeks. What interests me is now that a couple countries seem to be done with the lies produced here so they are aligning themselves with Russia. India being the best example for now, they're probably still upset Apu got dropped from the Simpsons. No but seriously, all these countries taking a stance against "us", openly, it's like some of them feel a "moment" coming. It is very suspicious in a way.
    It certainly has changed, not just the likes of the BRICS countries either, Poland isn't doing what the US is telling them to do (do they honestly believe that the Poles have forgotten the Yalta Treaty ? LOL) & more tellingly Germany & the Netherlands have been very outspoken about not letting Ukraine into the EU in a way that takes a real swipe at the US (albeit in diplomatic language)

    I read the text on RT but can't repost here due to the current fascist dictatorship laws to protect us from words.
    This is an interesting development as well.


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