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Thread: Questions to ask when purchasing land

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    Italy Avalon Member Rebecca's Avatar
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    Default Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Hey all!

    For those of you who have purchased land for off-grid living, what are some of the best questions to ask before buying?

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    I suppose it depends on which country, region you are buying in. But maybe these are important

    - Is clean water available nearby?
    - Are there any laws that may not allow you to collect rain/river water?
    - Some countries have laws in certain regions that prohibit to build in certain ways, and then also require you to have electricity hooked up even if you want to go offgrid. If the house/cabin is bigger than some size or has more than a certain room limit then you may be required to have running water and electricity. So you may want to check the location and laws before buying
    Tired

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Hi Rebecca! Check for easements and right-of-ways. Take what the seller provides/tells you and then do some research for the area. Don't just go back one or two owners, try to look through county records and plats as far as you can. Make certain to get one or two accurate surveys done. These can save your rights of usage and privacy (& prevent a lot of headaches!) if there are ever any ill-willed future parties interested in causing havoc for you or owning a piece of your property by adverse possession or eminent domain. (Happens a lot, unfortunately, in certain areas and for off-grid/organic/sustainable homesteaders.)

    Best wishes in your new endeavors!

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    Italy Avalon Member Rebecca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    I suppose it depends on which country, region you are buying in. But maybe these are important

    - Is clean water available nearby?
    - Are there any laws that may not allow you to collect rain/river water?
    - Some countries have laws in certain regions that prohibit to build in certain ways, and then also require you to have electricity hooked up even if you want to go offgrid. If the house/cabin is bigger than some size or has more than a certain room limit then you may be required to have running water and electricity. So you may want to check the location and laws before buying
    Thanks, Malisa! I will consider all of that. It's strange to think there are laws prohibited the collection of rain/river water...

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Victoria (here)
    Hi Rebecca! Check for easements and right-of-ways. Take what the seller provides/tells you and then do some research for the area. Don't just go back one or two owners, try to look through county records and plats as far as you can. Make certain to get one or two accurate surveys done. These can save your rights of usage and privacy (& prevent a lot of headaches!) if there are ever any ill-willed future parties interested in causing havoc for you or owning a piece of your property by adverse possession or eminent domain. (Happens a lot, unfortunately, in certain areas and for off-grid/organic/sustainable homesteaders.)

    Best wishes in your new endeavors!
    Thanks, Victoria for the tips and encouragement! In particular, I hadn't consider the chances of ill-willed future parties... definitely want to avoid that!

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Quote Posted by Rebecca (here)
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    I suppose it depends on which country, region you are buying in. But maybe these are important

    - Is clean water available nearby?
    - Are there any laws that may not allow you to collect rain/river water?
    - Some countries have laws in certain regions that prohibit to build in certain ways, and then also require you to have electricity hooked up even if you want to go offgrid. If the house/cabin is bigger than some size or has more than a certain room limit then you may be required to have running water and electricity. So you may want to check the location and laws before buying
    Thanks, Malisa! I will consider all of that. It's strange to think there are laws prohibited the collection of rain/river water...

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Victoria (here)
    Hi Rebecca! Check for easements and right-of-ways. Take what the seller provides/tells you and then do some research for the area. Don't just go back one or two owners, try to look through county records and plats as far as you can. Make certain to get one or two accurate surveys done. These can save your rights of usage and privacy (& prevent a lot of headaches!) if there are ever any ill-willed future parties interested in causing havoc for you or owning a piece of your property by adverse possession or eminent domain. (Happens a lot, unfortunately, in certain areas and for off-grid/organic/sustainable homesteaders.)

    Best wishes in your new endeavors!
    Thanks, Victoria for the tips and encouragement! In particular, I hadn't consider the chances of ill-willed future parties... definitely want to avoid that!
    It is a bit difficult situation, personally i know of a friend who tried this and was shutdown by the local administration, mostly due to increasing posibility of illness and nesting mosquitos and other stuff like that around his place, which also affected other people nearby. I don't think it's completely illegal but it can be hard to do the way you may need

    https://worldwaterreserve.com/is-it-...ect-rainwater/
    Quote Because the typical catchment surface for rainwater is the rooftop of a home, bacteria from animal feces and other harmful contaminants are generally present in rainwater. This makes it very dangerous to consume without proper filtration.

    While some states still require permits for rainwater harvesting, the trend of most states seems to be shifting toward favoring of private rainwater harvesting. Colorado, the state with arguably the strictest rainwater harvesting laws, passed a bill in 2016 allowing for the collection of rainwater with a 110-gallon maximum capacity.
    Tired

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Since you mentioned that >>> "purchased land for off-grid living" <<< I personally would not worry much about laws in the country regarding that (because they can change anytime - it is useless), you probably are asking for something out in the boonies, that's my impression for the thread you started.

    I would look into some key features:

    - check for public land; or hunting land; or recreational land; or something on these line. (it is usually much cheaper land and meet your criteria of been off the grid).
    - if you feel comfortable doing it, check court records to know if there is any active claim on that specific plot you are purchasing (avoid all sort of dispute is important).
    - do you know that place nobody want to be, because it is too cold, or too high in the mountains, or too far way, and so on.. yeah! that place make a perfect off the grid location.
    - also all countries has some states/provinces cheaper and most people do not want to be there, like economically depressed areas, etc.. usually you can strike very good deals on land and property in general in those places.

    To buy land as mentioned above, check the local markets in the area you are interested, local boards, directories, etc.. this is sorta mouth to mouth thing, people talk about it, they do not post online, also go around asking always proved to work (you won't find things like that on internet).

    Living 100% off the grid means no contact with any public services, internet, everything has to be provided by yourself to yourself or the community and a few people can actually live 100% in that way, but a mix of it make more sense for a lot of people, that still need some sort of contact with the grid.
    --
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    I would want to know something about the history of the land and how was is used, and maybe the land around it. Perhaps it was used for manufacturing and toxic chemicals were dumped into the ground? Perhaps that happened nearby or is happening now and chemicals are seeping into the waterways or ground water on to that land?

    Also, there might be liens against the property. In the U.S., before you complete the purchase of the land, you have a title search performed and get title insurance, otherwise someone might show up at the door and say you owe me money or I am taking your land.

    If you are planning to grow food, you might want to research what the weather conditions are like year 'round. How much rain falls throughout the year and what months are dry and rainier. How much sun do you get throughout the year. What are other people successfully growing in those condition? What plants aren't they growing, but would grow well in those conditions?

    You might also want to have the soil tested. Is is acidic or alkaline. Is it rich in nutrients? Have the nutrients been depleted from over farming? Have there been a lot chemical fertilizers and pesticides used?

    I would also want to get some sense of who your neighbors are? Do they support each other when there is a crisis? How do they feel about newcomers to the area?

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    United States Avalon Member edina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Hi Rebecca, I live off-grid and have been doing so for about 25 years.
    I am NOT, however, fully self-sufficient. No one truly is.
    There is a definite knowledge base and skill sets to that sort of lifestyle.
    And it takes time to develop both.
    The decision to live off-grid is a big one.
    And it's not for everyone.

    For example, almost every woman who has ever come out to our place for the first time asks me the same question:
    Quote "Aren't you afraid living out here, like this?"
    (That thought has never occurred to me, but it is a primary thought that comes to mind with many people. In my experience, men love it. Women, ... not so much.)

    There's the idea, or image, that people hold in their mind about "off-grid" living.
    And then there's the reality of it. It's much harder work than most realize, especially, in the beginning.

    Much depends on what you want to do. What's your desired outcome?
    And your "why". Why do you want to do this?

    There are probably some questions that will be helpful to ask yourself before you buy property. Because the answers to these questions will help you clarify your property buying decisions.

    The ideas already shared here in previous comments are all good to consider. Depending on where you're at in your process of thinking about off-grid living, they are a good place to start.

    There's a book I've had on my shelf for decades, that immediately came to mind when I read your OP. It's Reader's Digest, Back to Basics. The first chapter, Land, Buying It -- Building On It is a good summary to help get anyone started.

    I looked around for a pdf of the book, I couldn't find a Reader's Digest one, however, I found a version that looks to be essentially the same by someone else. It's probably more updated, my book was published in 1981. Here's a link to it it, as a resource:

    Back to Basics: A Complete Guide to Traditional Skills, Third Edition

    The woman listed as the author of this version, has written a follow-up book that is in the Avalon Library. Re: Homesteading ...
    It doesn't address buying property, but it does address many of the skills for self-suffifcient food production.

    Back to your buying property question...

    It's helpful to have a clear understanding in your own mind about what and why you want to live off-grid. This will inform you as to what you're looking for in a property.

    What does living off-grid look like to you?

    Is it a small pc of land, away from civilization, out in the boonies?
    Or is it closer to towns or small communities?
    Do you want it to be within easy driving distance to where you presently live?
    Or are you interested in moving to another area of the country?

    It it a place to live full time? Now, or eventually, in the future?
    Is it a place to retreat to, if things in the cities and towns get wonky and feel unsafe?
    If it's a place to retreat to, what would you like the quality of life to be for you while there?
    Do you want electricity? Or running water? If you live in a colder climate, how will you handle the cold? How long would you want to live in whatever space you build on the property?

    Would it resemble something more like "homesteading", where you are producing the majority of your food yourself? If so, this can be done in-place, in most homes with a little land. It's called urban homesteading. And there's a big movement of that in the PNW.

    Do you want to live off-grid because you want to be disconnected from the modern culture, hermit style, or luddite style?

    These are just some of the questions that come off the top of my head, when I consider your OP question.

    People can learn to live "off-grid" in place. Or "grid-down resilient" in place.

    Another good resource in the Avalon Library is Matthew Stein's book, "When Technology Fails... ". It's helpful, if one is concerned about potential grid-down scenarios.

    Off-grid living wasn't necessarily something I planned on. I married into it. This is where my husband lived when I met him. It's been a gradual process of refining what works for us, over the years. And we're still improving and refining as we go along. Mostly because it's my nature to do that, to the chagrin of my husband.

    I ran your question by him when I considered to respond here.

    In his case, he moved to this area of the country because of visions he's experienced earlier in his life.

    His criteria for what he was looking for in property was first and foremost, if he could afford it. The land prices at the time were anywhere from $10,000.00 an acre to $1000.00 an acre. It's easily quadrupled since then, which was in the 90's.

    He knew he wanted to live where there were not many people around.
    He wanted to live where he could do things he wanted without much county interference.
    He knew he wanted to be able to put in a well.
    In our state, well permits are regulated at the state level. In some places they may be regulated at the county level? The state regulation was that any parcel 40 acres, or more, would be permitted for a well. People are not guaranteed a well permit on smaller lots. So, the size of property for him, then became 40 acres. That's a good chunk of land.

    This guided him to look for land at the edges of what is considered desirable land. He needed a pc of land that was closer to the low end of the cost per acre, so he could afford it.

    It was raw, no development on it at all. No infrastructure.
    No electric lines, no water lines, no sewage, no buildings.

    And the road in was very rough. It's still considered rough by many people who visit. I often need to go into 4-wheel drive during snowy, or wet, weather conditions. But, for me, it's a breeze compared to what it was like when I moved out here. It's been graveled more over the years, and so it's passable now. Early on, I couldn't guarantee that I could get in, or out. And often it would take me 2 hours to drive what is now a fairly consistent 20 minutes to the nearest paved road. This caused extra stress when trying to get to work on time.

    Access would be another big issue to consider when buying property. There are some parcels of land in our area that don't have road access. They're land-locked. Anyone who wanted to buy those parcels would need to negotiate with neighbors the right of ways needed to get access. And, then they would have to build a road to get the property. That's another thing to consider; access, and right-of-ways.

    A few years ago, a bridge on the road to our place went out. Roads and bridges are infrastructure. This road is not a county road. It's a private road. The responsibility to repair that bridge fell to the people who lived past it. None of us could afford to pay contractors to repair the bridge. And, the bridge still had to be at Army Corp of Engineers code, since it affected a waterway. The group of people who lived past that part of the road had to come together and figure out a way to get it fixed. We pooled our money and our labor together and worked for about 3 months that year, during the summer when it was dry, to repair that bridge to code, and to ensure it was passable during the upcoming winter and next spring.

    When one lives "off-grid" they are living outside of the infrastructure that most people living in cities and developed areas take for granted. Essentially, they become responsible for building their own infrastructure.

    As another example; we use a gravity feed system for our water. Our water tanks sit up hill from our home and gravity feeds down to our home, which provides enough water pressure for showers, and such. We know other people who use pumps to pump water, either directly from their well, or from a cistern/water tank holding system, to get the water pressure they need to run water through the pipes in their homes and gardens. There are pros and cons to each, but there is infrastructure to build for both.

    Our primary power source is solar, with a gas powered generator for back-up. A friend we know who lives closer to town, is still connected to the electrical system/grid. They primarily power their home via solar, and sell back excess to the local electric company. We don't have that option because we live off-grid. The nearest power pole is about 1/2 mile away. It was more affordable for us to build out our own solar system, than to pay the electric company to run a line to our place.

    Our primary heat is a wood stove, with propane wall heaters to take the edge off on cold mornings. We use propane for the water heater, dryer, our frig, and for cooking.

    Our sewage system is a sewage tank in-line to a lagoon. About 5 years ago, a young couple moved out here and the cost of the sewage permit alone was about $10,000.00. The system now required by the county cost them another $30,000.00.

    Infrastructure is often the hidden cost factor when considering off-grid living.

    The local county/parish Land Use codes is a good place to begin to understand what the local regulations are in your area.

    I asked my husband how he found our property. He said it was listed in the local newspaper.

    However, I think there is a tip for people looking for property coming from the man who my husband bought our property from. He had purchased it for a fraction of the going price because he monitored properties through the local county office, and when a property went up for sale by the county due to taxes not being paid, he bought the property by paying the back taxes on it and the title would be transferred to him. This is why he could sell it to my husband at a lower price and still make a decent profit.

    I think that's something for people to consider if they are looking for affordable property?

    There's a YouTube channel that my husband follows that would probably be super helpful to look at, for anyone considering off-grid living, Off Grid with Doug and Stacy. Once you get into that area of Youtube, the youtube algorithm will start populating the sidebars with similar channels. There's a whole subculture of people in youtube land sharing their experiences.

    I hope this is helpful.
    Last edited by edina; 9th February 2022 at 00:14.
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Those are all good replies above. Very informative.
    Edina, you have to be the most experienced "off-grid-er" on the forum!

    Probably together with Bill. Maybe there are a few others yet too, but not many.

    I would add something, that is "age and health".
    It's different for someone who is 65+ and does not have the best health.
    Someone in their thirties and in excellent health can take this much further.

    What Edina writes here:

    Much depends on what you want to do. What's your desired outcome?
    And your "why". Why do you want to do this?


    is very important too.

    Often (but not always) older people have more "means" than the younger ones. It may
    be possible for the older ones to create something for the younger ones (well, for anyone
    interested in this really). Right now, I am very much engaged in such an endeavour.

    One project is on the countryside (in Ireland).
    It is not "big" but has a lot of what was mentioned above.
    An own well, solar power (for heating water), central heating with pellets, a couple small
    greenhouses, a small area for permaculture, not much land but the three neighbours
    are farmers, so there may be possibilities there.

    My personal reasons are to have less EMF/RF/radiation and I found that.
    It's rural, and not really completely off-grid, but as much as you can expect to find
    in a country like Ireland and still within reach of small towns.

    The idea behind the project is to create a quiet place where small groups (or
    individuals up to a total of 12-16) can retreat. To recuperate from an illness,
    get over a particular grief, to experience a few weeks in nature...

    Workshops, courses, counselling ... will be possible there too.

    I even am thinking of having an Avalon-meeting there... could be done
    as all people in the UK and Ireland can get there without too
    much trouble. We'll see (anyone interested in this, PM me!).

    The above will run as a non-profit, because it's not the purpose to
    make money with it, all profit made will stay in the non-profit to make it grow.

    So indeed, it all depends on what you want and why.

    It's more expensive to begin an initiative as the one above than it is to buy some
    property with nothing on it, starting from scratch.

    I do have plans for that too, but it will depend on finding interested people in it.
    To go completely off-grid, everything Edina, Kryztian, Palehorse, Malisa... wrote above is essential.

    This thread is a good one to get all our ideas (and experiences) together though.
    Last edited by Johan (Keyholder); 9th February 2022 at 11:53.

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    I have lived off grid for many years now. I have no grid electricity supply. No water supply or drainage. I used to use a petrol generator for my power, but I now use a solar generator for my power supply, I can charge it using my solar panel, from a mains if available or from my petrol generator.
    I have a wood burning stove with an oven, which is great in the winter, otherwise I use bottled gas for my cooker and fringe.
    I have my own dirt track for access with no neighbors. I live 20 feet from the sea with spectacular views and sunsets and mountains behind me.

    Before purchasing land I would make sure you have enough direct sunlight for solar panels, a small running river/burn can also give you some hydro power. A windmill is also an option.
    All the best with your research.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    There is only one comment I would add to the ones in the previous posts.

    If possibly check your future neighbors (unless you would live in such a remote area that direct contact with any neighbor would rather be unlikely).

    Ideal would be neighbors that are like-minded and prepared/organized to live off grid as well. Like-minded neighbors most probably will gladly help you when needed, at least with valuable advice.

    In my opinion, a good relationship with neighbors, when off grid or semi off grid is ideal for many reasons.

    Thinking about other important issues, I remembered George Ure (https://urbansurvival.com/) and checked his webpage, which I have not checked for years. Some of the books he wrote, seem to be interesting for anybody considering an off grid existence

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    United States Avalon Member edina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Yesterday, while I was looking for a link to a pdf of the Back to Basics book I stumbled across another book that I thought may also be helpful.

    I wanted to read through it, before I recommended it, and have just finished going through it. Chapter 4 offers some really good property-related type questions.

    Her Top 10 Reasons to Live Off the Grid shows some more of the various reasons why people make that choice. And a person's reasons do influence what sort of property they want to purchase. These are probably a good starting point for some one to clarify their "why".
    Quote The Top 10 Reasons to Live Off the Grid
    1. To create a more self-sufficient lifestyle for you and your family
    2. To be more conscious of the environment and your impact on it
    3. To feel more secure away from the issues associated with urban areas
    4. To be the master of your own destiny
    5. To have a simpler, more satisfying lifestyle
    6. To raise your own vegetables, fruit, and livestock
    7. To live free from debt and learn how to be frugal
    8. To know that no matter what happens in the world, your family is prepared
    9. To learn to live off the land
    10. To give your children a legacy of independence
    It looks to me that my husband's "why" seemed to be primarily "independence" and "autonomy".

    In her book, Terri Reid addresses a wide range of options, I really appreciate this. She speaks more to the family, and kids, sort of issues in off-grid living.

    When I moved here my daughter was 10. The closest bus stop was 5 miles away. And there are no other kids around. Very early on, I taught her how to drive the old farm truck, for safety concerns.

    Proximity to schools, hospitals, other young families ... these may also be a consideration when looking at property.

    She also addresses the financial questions. We did "cash and carry". If we didn't have the cash to pay for something we didn't do it. We saved what we needed, then did the next thing. That's time consuming. And can be stressful. Right now it's great, because we don't have those bills.

    Another couple I know, after so many years of doing it that way, the woman, who is one of the most competent women I know in this area, decided she was tired of building that way. After 15 years, their home still wasn't built, and she was sick of living full time in what was supposed to be temporary shelter. To finish the house they got a mortgage loan through the bank. To get that loan the bank required them to connect to the local electrical grid.

    I guess I should note, we could never get insurance on our home, for that reason. We just don't fit insurance companies "specifications". It was challenging for the electrical guy to okay our permit because the house wasn't connected to the grid. That was 18 years ago. I'm not sure we could do now, what we were able to do then.

    I'm leaving a link to this book here, because it addresses so many potential issues and a wide range of ideas on how to think about "off-grid" living.

    The Everything Guide to Living Off the Grid: A back-to-basics manual for independent living
    Last edited by edina; 9th February 2022 at 16:32.
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Thanks for that book-link Edina!
    It looks very promising.

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Drainage, drainage, drainage...
    Seriously what happens when you get a big downpour?
    Does you're beautiful little off-grid cabin flood?

    I would check the flood plain drawings to determine how far the building site is above the 100 year flood mark. 20+ ft would be good; 50+ ft - no worries

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Bring a gallon milk jug filled with water when you go. Find the area with the best drainage - as in a place where you might wish to put your cabin or house since it is slightly higher than the rest of the property or can be fixed with french drains to become so. Pour the water out and see how it disappears into the ground. Too slow and you are dealing with clay, which won't be that sweet for crops. If it disappears fairly quickly then you have land that percolates, and you probably will have little trouble with it. If it begins to unite with the soil and become mushy, you have some swamp tendencies and this will not support your base or floors, which actually are the load bearing part of your dream home.

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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    How about "Who actually owns the land?" If you don't pay the so-called "taxes", what happens after that? Hmmmm........So you don't actually OWN your land? WAKE UP PEOPLE! STOP BEING OBEDIENT SLAVES!

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    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    That was exactly what I said in my post above:

    Quote I personally would not worry much about laws in the country regarding that (because they can change anytime - it is useless)
    Extending a little bit on that: It is not only about taxes, it is about whatever they think it is about. This happened to my family, when the local government came to them time ago, and took over of 1.5 hectares of their land and with the excuse they were going to build a facility and some sort of garage for their trucks and tractors, our farm was and still fully paid, not a single year goes by without a tax been paid, the most absurd thing was, when they took over our land, they quickly cut down 1.5 hectare of native forest in that area and sold the wood, they did it all without our consent, after our complain about the invasion a case was opened in the court, and they quickly claimed that land because it was in the interest of the county and that gives them the right to seize lands or whatever they want. It happened in 2015 and until today the case still dragging in the court.

    I wrote above about PUBLIC LAND (".. hunting land; or recreational land; or something on these line..") and I said it is much cheaper, well it is FREE LAND actually, all people have to do is to take over. In my home country they "legalized" squatters after 5 years in the land. Here where I live has a similar thing, they want you to pay tax after all, because they do not have control over the land.

    Are they going to send troops to remove 1 or 2 squatters, nah I do not think so. Organize and take over, just like they do, we are in great numbers.
    Last edited by palehorse; 1st March 2022 at 12:38.
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    Here is another reason to go off the grid. Not much related, but interesting video to consider.

    It's Already Here! Look at this...... (8:19m) from DOUG & STACY (Channel recommended by Edina)
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    Default Re: Questions to ask when purchasing land

    I will say:
    - It's possible to build a well, where I can find wather? The wather it's safe?
    - Ask a tecnician like Geometra or other what are the rules about wath you can build (I say that becouse where I work, in italy, you can't build nothing new without special permissions and requirements, the bureaucracy it's crazy, you can't imagine the amount of paper I must do for each of my client maybe in other country it's better)
    - The sun it's also important, how many sun you have during the day?

    Personaly, I would prefered, hilly areas with good exposition to the sun and a river that it's near the propriety, and with a woodland yours or near.

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