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Thread: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

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    Canada Avalon Member Justplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    Despite the violations that I've heard of that the Ukraine has perpetrated, such as forcing Russians not to speak their language, blocking water to Crimea and soldiers using human shields, there are enough live feeds from Ukraine showing a massive resistance by the Ukrainian population to this invasion Let's cut the bullsh!t. The vast majority of Ukrainians don't see Russia as anything other than ruthless invaders, and atleast a quarter of the adult population are willing to take up arms against them. Russia should pack up and go home and find some other way to get a lasting peace. Russia can be real bastards, just look at what they did to Grozny a few decades ago. And the west isn't afraid of Putin's threats. If Putin and his regime keep this up they will live to greatly regret their decision.

    And China knows not to attack Taiwan, the west is well enough equipped to handle both it and Russia.

    Don't push it guys, or it'll be a huge mess and Russia and China will come out the big losers.

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    Finland Avalon Member muxfolder's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    President Sauli Niinistö interviewed on Fox News. Day by day it's getting more and more clearer that we are being prepared for war. It's not that we want to. It's because we have to. We're waiting.

    Last edited by muxfolder; 6th March 2022 at 10:30.

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    Finland Avalon Member muxfolder's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    Preparing for war? Yes. But this is like it's been written by Putin himself.

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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    Seems most like ”karma of the nations” type of situation. Physical world is often about competition, who’s king of the hill. As above, so below: man’s struggle in nation’s form.

    (So Putin isn’t likely a NWO agent. Even the name comes from New World = American continent, in old english)

    USA has had monopoly over the world (since cold war), and now Russia, and China etc are challenging that.

    Ukraine is USA’s honeypot for Russia. Since at least 90’s they have known, that NATO eastward expansion would irritate Russia, no country want its enemies’ military bases near it (remember Cuban missile crisis). And geopolitical strategy of the king of the hill (USA), is try to make (potential) enemies weaker.

    (I think NATO expansion is the main reason, there are other things too)


    Ukraine region is bit more (or lot?) important to Russia than Finland / Sweden, because there’s more oil pipes and military bases, and geopolitics again: access to middle east, and central europe.




    (I can recommend this French think thank analysis. It can be translated to other languages from the right corner. https://cf2r.org/documentation/la-si...re-en-ukraine/ )





    From Zbigniew Brzezinski:

    ”In this vein, he became one of the foremost advocates of NATO expansion. He wrote in 1998 that "Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire."

    ”In brief, for the United States, Eurasian geostrategy involves the purposeful management of geostrategically dynamic states and the careful handling of geopolitically catalytic states, in keeping with the twin interests of America in the short-term preservation of its unique global power and in the long-run transformation of it into increasingly institutionalized global cooperation.

    To put it in a terminology that hearkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together.”

    Sources: Grand chessboard-book and this wikipedia-page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski


    Earlier heartland theories may explain it more simply (grand chessboard is just more recent theory in the same vein). If europe and asia would unify, that would just be too terrifying opponent for USA, if any of it’s forthcoming leaders happened to turn against USA in the future. That’s their reasoning.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ge...vot_of_History




    Of course that kind of cynical strategy won’t work forever (self-fulfilling prophecy?), if we’re for world peace. Also lots of people from USA are against that strategy


    ”In an open letter to President Clinton at the end of June 1997, fifty former US senators, cabinet secretaries and ambassadors, as well as US arms control and foreign policy specialist, stated their belief that 'the current US-led effort to expand NATO . .. is a policy error of historic importance'.


    NATO Expansion: 'A Policy Error of Historic Importance'

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20097504

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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    Terve!
    I didnt know that.
    God I'm so happy to learn new things from this forum every day.
    I like this down to earth guy explaining importance of boarders. (IN SWEDISH)


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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    As a Scandinavian I suppose I should comment. This has now caused the fact that Finland is seriously considering to join NATO this summer and that might mean that Sweden will follow suit. I have never believed that Russia would pose any threat to Finland and in fact the relationship between our countries was quite cordial at least until recent times. Even without NATO Finland has had good defence forces which have been built to counter the imaginary attack of Russia. Of course we neither couldn't probably survive a full scale war, but it would not be in any way the interest of Russia to do any such thing. That's why I have never seen any reason for joining NATO. I don't like the idea that our country is a plaything between NATO, USA and Russia. There's a saying in Finnish which goes something like this: "Who bows to one bends over to others." All actions will have consequences, some more unfortunate than others. It is unpleasant to see these kind of tensions rising on European soil again. It is also ironic that USA is wagging it's finger now when it has been causing wars and destabilization all over the world, it's like a pot calling the kettle black. The epitome of hypocrisy. Peace is the highest ideal, may it come.
    Last edited by Wind; 24th April 2022 at 16:44.
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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    Noting this just for the record — though personally I don't agree with him. Scott Ritter is adamant that Russia will go to war and destroy Finland if it joins NATO. He makes these comments in this interview, starting in at 13:45.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 26th April 2022 at 11:21.

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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Noting this just for the record — though personally I don't agree with him. Scott Ritter is adamant that Russia will go to war and destroy Finland if it joins NATO. He makes these comments in this interview, starting in at 13:45.

    It really is something to consider. The thing is, we're going to be part of NATO very soon. It's weeks or couple of months now. And we are waiting how the Russians are going to react to all of this. They should react very very soon because this is really going to happen it seems. Personally I think it's going to be us against the Russians like always and no one's coming to save us. That's the tradition, history repeats itself etc.

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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    This is very interesting from Scott Ritter. It's called an 'interview', but it's really a 48 minute solo presentation. The first 8 minutes are his biography and background. The rest is largely about Russia and Finland.

    Earlier in this thread, I posted that I didn't think Russia would attack Finland or the Baltic States. I'm now not quite so sure.

    With Finland hell-bent on joining NATO (and "hell-bent" might be the appropriate description), all that changes. Look at how close St Petersburg (at the lower right of the map) is to Finland. St Petersburg is Russia's second city after Moscow.

    If the US neocons lost their minds (or lost their minds even further!), it'd take a NATO missile based in southern Finland about 60 seconds from launch to wipe out St Petersburg, with zero time to respond.



    Scott Ritter's strong opinion is that there's no way the Russians will allow this. If this is correct — and it might well be — then Russia would attack Finland before it joins NATO.

    One would assume that in order to avoid this, Russia is telling Finland right now that this would happen... so don't do it.

    Turkey has also expressed profound doubts, and as a major NATO member itself (where consensus is needed to approve any new membership proposal) Turkey could veto Finland's application. So Russia is certainly talking to Turkey about this as well.


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    Default Re: The Russian aggression against Finland/Sweden/Baltic countries

    I don't claim to know much about military matters even if I like history. One thing I do know however and that is Finland has one one of the strongest armies in Europe. Some of the soldiers have been here in conditions which even US marines aren't used to. If Putin would choose to attack (which I still can't imagine happening) then that will result in the deaths of tens of thousands of Russians and Finnish people and possibly more. It could further escalate into WW3 and the downfall of Putin and possibly quite fast too, just total madness.

    The question is, would he really want that? I am not a fan of NATO and I do find all of this quite sad indeed. There are Finnish people in Russia and Russians in Finland. There's much I could tell about connections and tragedies, but the thing is that we are all (mostly) human and would just wish to live in peace. For what it's worth, our president did call Putin and everything seemed to be fine mostly. I think these are quite perilous times though, the echoes of times just before WW2 are quite strong. There will be no winners in world wars anymore.
    Last edited by Wind; 15th May 2022 at 20:10.
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