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Thread: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    im using yandex for few days now and damn great for search for stream movies aka Spidey no way home and as for non-mainstream stuff seems better and i feel like 2011 where i got into alternative media what mainstream called Conspiracy.

    looking for other search engine beside yandex right now for news(just go thought what MSM saying and know their narrative) and general stuff/local stuff...

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    I wrote to DDG last week and expressed my disappointment about their google-like censorship. Haven't heard from them so far...
    A million galaxies are a little foam on that shoreless sea. ~ Rumi

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    In the end they're all playing the game, "mens erger je niet" magnificus!


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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    More stupidity. I updated Firefox on one of my machines today before looking at the details of the update. Then decided to find out what was in the update. Their quote:

    'Firefox allows users to choose from a number of built-in search engines to set as their default. In this release, some users who had previously configured a default engine might notice their default search engine has changed since Mozilla was unable to secure formal permission to continue including certain search engines in Firefox.'

    In other words, Mozilla Firefox doesn't want you to use certain search engines. That's my assumption. They don't want to tell you that they are purposefully denying you easy asscess to 'certain search engines.' I also question who it is that is denying Mozilla Firefox so-called 'formal permission' to include 'certain search engines.' Let's Go Brandon maybe?

    I wonder which search engines they are willing to provide access to? The list is easy to guess: Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Amazon, Ebay, Wikipedia, and, wait for it, Brave. However, I suspect that Brave is in the list because I have the addon running that loads the Brave search engine into Firefox.

    Firefox has pushed at least two updates in the past couple of days. This latest one also messes with your chosen procedure for downloading files. They have a 'new' file download panel that appears to be useless unless you are truly dumb.

    Sorry to any whom I've offended by that statement but that's my opinion. If you've chosen to have file downloads go to your download folder that default is now changed to make things more difficult for you.

    I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.
    Last edited by helium; 15th March 2022 at 07:16.

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    Quote Posted by helium (here)
    More stupidity. I updated Firefox on one of my machines today before looking at the details of the update. Then decided to find out what was in the update. Their quote:

    'Firefox allows users to choose from a number of built-in search engines to set as their default. In this release, some users who had previously configured a default engine might notice their default search engine has changed since Mozilla was unable to secure formal permission to continue including certain search engines in Firefox.'

    In other words, Mozilla Firefox doesn't want you to use certain search engines. That's my assumption. They don't want to tell you that they are purposefully denying you easy asscess to 'certain search engines.' I also question who it is that is denying Mozilla Firefox so-called 'formal permission' to include 'certain search engines.' Let's Go Brandon maybe?

    I wonder which search engines they are willing to provide access to? The list is easy to guess: Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Amazon, Ebay, Wikipedia, and, wait for it, Brave. However, I suspect that Brave is in the list because I have the addon running that loads the Brave search engine into Firefox.

    Firefox has pushed at least two updates in the past couple of days. This latest one also messes with your chosen procedure for downloading files. They have a 'new' file download panel that appears to be useless unless you are truly dumb.

    Sorry to any whom I've offended by that statement but that's my opinion. If you've chosen to have file downloads go to your download folder that default is now changed to make things more difficult for you.

    I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.

    Yes, firefox has weird behavior, that's why I built my own (I mean compiled), it took quite a lot of time and after hundreds of tweaks (literally) I was able to finish compilation, to realize that I don't even need that.. but anyway, there is quite a few websites out there that will block access if you are not using the very last version of a modern browser.. I decided to investigate why is that.. the first thing I did was to spoof my browser user/agent string to the last version of Firefox, something like that >>> "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:97.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/97.0" <<< well, the websites now worked fine.. The second thing i checked was the number of requests to an ordinary website, which depends on how many add-ons you have installed (all alien piece of code not originally developed by mozilla are an alien code block and they call their home server ), not getting into many details, the number of requests is just absurd, you can try to do the same using another browser like GNU IceCat or Pale Moon, you will see those requests cut by half.

    Google Chrome is even worse.

    Fingerprinting is another big issue with browsers, and from my tests Tor Browser is the ONLY one that stand strong in the crowd, but you have to run it on the safest security level, otherwise it falls in the crowd.

    Today the swing is, you sacrifice functionality for safety, the more functionality you have the more unsafe you become.
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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    This thread has become an informative read, thanks lots folks.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    I echo Norman's comment above and having being utterly ignorant to what fingerprint meant in this context. (I literally thought it was for laptop/touchscreen fingerprint entry!)

    Having read the linked article highlighted I was set to throw my hands in the air and give up trying to maintain privacy, the more secure you make your browser the more unique you are. The more unique you are the more you stand out.

    Still intrigued? Here is another article explaining how the founder of The Silk Road was taken down. It includes a bunch of tips on safety at the end.

    Given that I'm basically against data collection rather than actively trying to buy guns, drugs or doing anything illegal, and bringing my age into consideration, I begin to think what is the point!

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    Quote Posted by helium (here)

    I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.
    what are you replacing it with

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    Quote Posted by leavesoftrees (here)
    Quote Posted by helium (here)

    I'm finally pushed over the edge as far as Firefox is concerned. Tomorrow Firefox will be deleted from all of my machines and replaced.
    what are you replacing it with
    I'm really conflicted as to which browser I want to use. As pointed out above, safety/privacy is a trade-off for functionality.

    There is nothing I've found so far that fits the bill. Palehorse (above) has one solution but it's not an easy one to implement. That was a great post by the way.

    Other items also must be considered than software and settings. Browsing 'smarts' in terms of habits and procedures followed can make or break any solution. I'd like to say more about browsing habits but haven't the time at the moment. Am gleefully preparing for a showdown with a property manager ignorant of federal regulations, while communicating the conflict in detail with evidence to a federal office of inspector general. Lots of fun. These people at the lower levels tend to be quite stupid so they are easy to corner when they break the rules. Trouble is, federal employees such as the office of inspector general are not so interested in doing their jobs, if they are even 'on the job' nowadays.

    The US government is falling apart right in front of our eyes in real time.

    More later about browsing habits and procedures I follow.

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    I have one spare laptop I use in parallel, I have Tails OS on a USB thumb drive, it will not write to the hard disk neither to the USB thumb drive because I do not use the data persistence feature, it is a good setup to make research and communicate with others, but if you have to save something, you still have to download and save it to another external media (do not use cloud storage for that), it is a habit doing it, but it is a safer way to be connected on internet.
    Tails always connect to the Tor network by default, it is slower, Tor adds an extra latency to each packet and if the user do not follow certain procedures well explained in their docs, it won't help. (Always remember nothing is 100% safe)

    https://tails.boum.org/

    Perhaps it is a better way using tails instead of setup everything yourself.. which can be a pain in the ass (I have both cases, one Laptop I did myself all the setup, the other one I use Tails - both are ok, I am bare bones in terms of applications, I only have installed what I use).
    For example, in Linux simple tools like `wget`, `curl`, `ftp` and a few others can denounce/broadcast/compromise your real ISP IP address if not configured properly, you have to configure the proxy option with these tools, otherwise it will use your real IP address. It is a total compromise!!! if you are aiming to use the internet safely. The good thing about Tails, it had done that for you already.

    In Linux some programs has the proxy option available, other not, then you have to open the setting files and configure/set it yourself, some other programs has no proxy features available at all (I personally avoid them, if they somehow has access to internet - a simple ping to an external server is a compromise).

    When talking about these things, the common and lazy argument is "Oh! I have nothing to hide", but if anyone think for just a minute you will realize that it has nothing to do with hiding things (except the dirty secrets of the ones in control haha), it has to do with our freedom of speech that they are taking away from us, it is nothing about selling/buying "parafernalias" online, it is nothing about hiring killers online, just think for a minute, the entire narrative is created around these bad things (and they use it against us, assuming it is all bad - one size fits all).. They want to remove your privacy, your freedom, your anonymity, they want to turn the spotlight right in your face and watch you all the time, tracking and surveilling you, anyone comfortable with that can just ignore and turn a blind eye, but it is what it is, they create control and we mitigate it... mouse and cat game goes on and on and on.. We the people have to circumvent censorship all the time.

    Do not give up your freedom, fight for it, boycott the tech giants, use open source, free software, remember many died and a lot more are arrested because they tried so hard to make their points, to help improve humanity in better ways far out of the freak controllers.

    In doubt just do not use anything that can potentially compromise your safety. It still the best approach. I myself few times decided not to look into certain things because I was not sure if my current setup was good enough. A while ago I was on IRC chatting in a group asking for materials like old scanned books, when someone flagged me, giving my ISP name and very close location from where I was, (a while ago, all customer base of Thai ISPs was public available on internet, yes names, address, CC, etc.. knowing that I immediately correlated the thing - and it was just a DCC automated message that I received, not a person!!! go figure) that scared the beejezus out of me, just saying there is too much technology out there, and too much insecure system (leaking constantly), and we do not know who is in the other side, they can track people down pretty fast nowadays, agents are rooted everywhere.

    I repeat the statement here "In doubt just do not use anything that can potentially compromise your safety."

    Warning: I have no intention of scaring anyone, in doubt always have a second opinion with someone you trust, but things are what they are. Be safe friends.
    Last edited by palehorse; 17th March 2022 at 06:17.
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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    Agree with everything palehorse said just above.

    Anyway here's another
    List of free, open source and privacy respecting services and alternatives to privative services
    at github for those who like to dive into such things.
    The only place a perfect right angle ever CAN be, is the mind.

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    Installed Palemoon this morning. I didn't get the latest one as it is based on Firefox's latest builds and Firefox 99.x is horrific imo.

    However.... when going into settings there is an announcement that "Your browser is being managed by your organisation." ?insert several question marks liberally interspersed with exclamation marks?

    Under Privacy and Tracking Protection you cannot select the strict option!

    In about:config settings several disturbing discoveries.

    privacy.trackingprotection.enabled is set to false and is also locked! I can't change it.

    security.dialog_enable_delay is also locked and cannot be set to (zer)0

    There is no setting for canvas.poisondata which was in earlier incarnations of Palemoon and obfuscated fingerprinting effectively.

    I tested a few sites and discovered 100's of trackers were being used. Then realised I had not installed my favourite add-on NoScript. After marking Google.com as untrusted the tracking was vastly reduced but some still exist.

    I habitually run Ccleaner after any seesion as a matter of course which immediately removes those trackers.

    So, better than the latest incarnation of Firefox but still suspect.

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    I thought DDG was the answer to dumping google (I won't cap that name). I'll re-start my search for a search engine not tied to google. Thank you for the information.

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    i love Yandex...great search for stream stuff, do quick search for sport stuff with typical channel and i got it...i was stuggling finding sports stream like NBA on others but on yandex able to find it so easy.

    just tried typical TV channel on yandex and found few stream...i have heard from various people saying Yandex is great for stuff such as streaming movies-tv shows..ect.
    Last edited by apokalypse; 29th April 2022 at 11:21.

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    i'll stick to google search, i see no difference in any of them, "false options, same narrative" ~



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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Installed Palemoon this morning. I didn't get the latest one as it is based on Firefox's latest builds and Firefox 99.x is horrific imo.

    However.... when going into settings there is an announcement that "Your browser is being managed by your organisation." ?insert several question marks liberally interspersed with exclamation marks?

    Under Privacy and Tracking Protection you cannot select the strict option!

    In about:config settings several disturbing discoveries.

    privacy.trackingprotection.enabled is set to false and is also locked! I can't change it.

    security.dialog_enable_delay is also locked and cannot be set to (zer)0

    There is no setting for canvas.poisondata which was in earlier incarnations of Palemoon and obfuscated fingerprinting effectively.

    I tested a few sites and discovered 100's of trackers were being used. Then realised I had not installed my favourite add-on NoScript. After marking Google.com as untrusted the tracking was vastly reduced but some still exist.

    I habitually run Ccleaner after any seesion as a matter of course which immediately removes those trackers.

    So, better than the latest incarnation of Firefox but still suspect.

    I did some dig into it, and found out that PaleMoon team developers left intentionally set per Mozilla default many of these parameters, they say the ones that are relevant to them are set like that.

    I am using Pale Moon Version 29.4.2 for Linux (older version) and these parameters you mentioned above are "togglable" for me.

    Another thing that worth to mention: Every time we "the users" set the tracking (Do not track me), a flag is added to the header of the request for that website, it is entirely up to the website been requested to obey or not that request, it is something that is not under our "the users" control, that's why you will find in some security circles or browser team developers, they do not care much about these settings, anything that lies beyond user's control, is not that important in the eyes of a security research, these are external variables.

    Here is how I deal with that:



    I also have installed the add-ons:



    - uBlock Origin (seems to work nicely with google)
    - eMatrix (more or less as NoScript)
    - Secret Agent (nice plugin that allow to change HTTP headers - I rotate my header with every single HTTP request - no need to say it won't work for many websites behind proxies like cloudflare, they see this behavior as a treat)



    Old article showing request with Tracking On/Off, the results are very subjective, that only shows that certain websites respected that request, it is from 2014, things changed a lot since then.
    https://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote...ng-protection/
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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    I'm still using Firefox and not pleased. Same with Brave search. It's a dud. Haven't found any good replacements though.

    Ewan:

    There could be registry hacks under windows that would release that administrator control for security settings. At least I know there's a simple hack to prevent the latest Firefox from naggin you to death to download updates. Many updates don't pertain to my use and are not security related. Search for 'undo admin lock on firefox' if I find anything relevant I'll share it.

    The message I get when I try to manually update using the registry setting is 'your administrator is mananging updates.'

    Here is one of many sites with the update registry hack: https://www.geekersdigest.com/how-to...refox-windows/

    I'm not sure if you're windoz or linux. The regisrty hack is a policy setting under Software so maybe the Palmoon devs placed a security setting in that same registry folder.

    I'd just use Tails but I need a dark background and a few other things that Tails lacks. I have a ton of redundant add-ons loaded under Firefox 100. I delete and add them at will to help prevent fingerprinting. It's also fairly easy to spoof the user agent for Firefox, but I'm not doing that right now.
    Last edited by helium; 14th May 2022 at 11:33.

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    Default Re: Looks like DuckDuckGo shot itself in its own foot

    Perhaps it's time for DDG to update their privacy statement for users...

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/new...agreement/amp/

    DuckDuckGo browser allows Microsoft trackers due to search agreement
    May 24 2022

    The privacy-focused DuckDuckGo browser purposely allows Microsoft trackers on third-party sites due to an agreement in their syndicated search content contract between the two companies.

    DuckDuckGo is a search engine that prides itself on its privacy by not tracking your searches or your behavior while performing searches. Furthermore, instead of building user profiles to display interest-based advertisements, DuckDuckGo will use contextual advertisements from partners, like Ads by Microsoft.

    While DuckDuckGo does not store any personal identifiers with your search queries, Microsoft advertising may track your IP address and other information when clicking on an ad link for "accounting purposes" but it is not associated with a user advertising profile.

    DuckDuckGo also offers a privacy-centric web browser for iOS and Android that promotes many privacy features, including HTTPS-always encryption, third-party cookie blocking, and tracker blocking.

    "Tracker Radar automatically blocks hidden third-party trackers we can find lurking on websites you visit in DuckDuckGo, which stops the companies behind those trackers from collecting and selling your data," explains the Apple App Store page for the DuckDuckGo Privacy Browser.

    DuckDuckGo browser allows Microsoft trackers

    However, while performing a security audit of the DuckDuckGo Privacy Browser, security researcher Zach Edwards discovered that while the browser blocks Google and Facebook trackers, it allowed Microsoft trackers to continue running.



    Further tests showed that DuckDuckGo allowed trackers related to the bing.com and linkedin.com domains while blocking all other trackers.

    In response to Edwards' long thread on the subject, DuckDuckGo CEO and Founder Gabriel Weinberg confirmed that their browser intentionally allows Microsoft trackers third-party sites due to a search syndication agreement with Redmond.



    This has led to quite the uproar on Hacker News, where Weinberg has been defending the company's transparency surrounding the agreements with Microsoft.

    However, Weinberg has made it clear that this restriction is only in their browser and does not affect the DuckDuckGo search engine.

    "Tracking is tracking"

    While DuckDuckGo has been transparent regarding the advertisement partnership with Microsoft, it is not clear why they did not disclose the allowing of Microsoft trackers until a security researcher discovered it.

    This revelation comes at the wrong time, as DuckDuckGo recently went after Google for their new 'Topics' and 'FLEDGE' tracking methods, saying, "Google says they're better for privacy, but the simple fact is tracking is tracking, no matter what you call it."



    After publication of this story, DuckDuckGo's Weinberg replied to our Tweet stating that they are working to remove this restriction from their agreement and to be more transparent in app store descriptions.

    "In addition, we are working with Microsoft to remove this limited restriction the article refers to. We're also working on updates to our app store descriptions to have more information. Hope this is helpful context," tweeted Weinberg.

    BleepingComputer was also sent the following statement from DuckDuckGo CEO Gabriel Weinberg, which is in its entirety below:

    "We have always been extremely careful to never promise anonymity when browsing, because that frankly isn’t possible given how quickly trackers change how they work to evade protections and the tools we currently offer. When most other browsers on the market talk about tracking protection, they are usually referring to 3rd-party cookie protection and fingerprinting protection, and our browsers for iOS, Android, and our new Mac beta, impose these restrictions on third-party tracking scripts, including those from Microsoft.

    What we're talking about here is an above-and-beyond protection that most browsers don't even attempt to do — that is, blocking third-party tracking scripts before they load on 3rd party websites. Because we're doing this where we can, users are still getting significantly more privacy protection with DuckDuckGo than they would using Safari, Firefox and other browsers. This blog post we published gets into the real benefits users enjoy from this approach, like faster load times (46% average decrease) and less data transferred (34% average decrease). Our goal has always been to provide the most privacy we can in one download, by default without any complicated settings."

    Microsoft declined our request for comment.

    Update 5/24/22: Added Gabriel Weinberg's statement.
    A million galaxies are a little foam on that shoreless sea. ~ Rumi

  36. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Franny For This Post:

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