View Poll Results: Dead or Alive?

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51. You may not vote on this poll
  • Biden is dead

    17 33.33%
  • Biden is alive

    32 62.75%
  • Trump is dead

    5 9.80%
  • Trump is alive

    43 84.31%
  • Putin is dead

    10 19.61%
  • Putin is alive

    37 72.55%
  • Paul McCartney is dead

    21 41.18%
  • Paul McCartney is alive

    26 50.98%
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Thread: Dead or Alive

  1. Link to Post #21
    Canada Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Speaking about body doubles.
    Have they only been used for nefarious purposes (apart from Hollywood casting, professional/amateur impersonators etc.) ?
    Are there any examples where we have proof of it (or admissions)?
    Last edited by DaveToo; 12th April 2022 at 19:38.

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  3. Link to Post #22
    England Avalon Member Spiral's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by Le Chat (here)
    you may find this pertinent/interesting, and touches on 'Mike/Paul' who is featured in the video link you posted...

    http://mileswmathis.com/paul8.pdf

    Thanks for that, very interesting indeed.

    I've seen the Winged Beatle vid & read about the fake Paul / Faul thing, but at the time it was posted (some years ago & not sure where) Modwiz said it couldn't be right because the guitar playing stayed the same & no one can play exactly like anyone else. That always stuck with me because he's a guitar player & would hear what I can't.

    Well it's possible if it was Mike all along isn't it !

    Hmmmmm.

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  5. Link to Post #23
    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    I think they are all alive but the British Queen could be dead

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  7. Link to Post #24
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    I always thought Kurt Russel and Patrick Swayze looked alike, and often times mixed them up...

    It would not surprise me to learn that most actors are being cloned, rumor has it they are already... One would think that if a "Look" sells well, why not create others with the same look?

    I followed the link and agree, most do look very much alike. Some of the younger females especially, many were not even listed... While it is said we all have dopplegangers, I don't think it is as much of a coincidence as most would tend to believe... But that's just my opinion. Especially given how some of them behave... Perhaps drones not functioning properly? Wouldn't at all surprise me.

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  9. Link to Post #25
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Most Avaloners who have read this post and/or taken part in the poll are probably scratching their heads wondering what this is all about.
    If not for a fairly recent occurrence, I for one would belong to that group of confused members.

    Before I explain what I mean, let me say this about the poll.
    This is not rocket science. On this planet a person can either be dead or alive, much like a woman can either be pregnant or not pregnant.

    Is it possible for someone to have died/been murdered etc. and the public not have been notified about? Of course.
    But even in those cases, there is no grey area. The person would be dead, but most of the public wouldn't have learned about it.
    In cases like this, it is possible that a body double could be used.

    Is it possible for someone to fake a death and have a body double take their place? Of course. But again there is no grey area. The person would still be alive.

    So what was the inspiration for this poll?
    A certain woman (Kim Goguen) has declared that Biden, Trump and Putin are all dead (and she is serious about it). There is a thread dedicated to her here at Avalon. I have yet to hear her opinion on Paul McCartney's current status.

    For all those who took part in the poll (and Kim), who voted that any of the four men are dead, the onus should be on you to prove your position, rather than others to prove the men are alive.

    In other words, much like in law, "innocent until proven guilty", we have "alive until proven dead".

    So for all those who voted that any of these men are dead, if you have the time an inclination, please do show us your proof.

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  11. Link to Post #26
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    When I have some time without obligation, I will look for this "Proof"... At least some compelling things that I have seen that led me to my opinions on such things. I do not claim to know for certain, these are just my opinions..

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  13. Link to Post #27
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Just for fun, this is an interview about what they're putting on the market, imagine what they're hiding, and have been, for obvious reasons.. The video is already 3 years old


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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by Denise/Dizi (here)
    Just for fun, this is an interview about what they're putting on the market, imagine what they're hiding, and have been, for obvious reasons.. The video is already 3 years old

    Denise, how about another one more just for fun? When I heard the news reporter say, “Customizable robot clones,” what came to mind was the movie, “Lars and the Real Girl”. Fun movie. Great acting.

    Lars and the Real Girl (3 min)


    Last edited by RunningDeer; 19th April 2022 at 08:24.

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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by Mari (here)
    What about the clones? I've read Putin and Biden are, so I suppose then that the originals of those are dead? No real idea, just throwing it out there...
    Clones, doubles, look-alikes... or whatever you want to call them, they are ALL not the original person.

    So let me be absolutely clear.

    If Biden is alive, they STILL could be using a clone/double/look-alike etc.
    If that was the case you should answer: Biden is alive (even though the person they put in front of us all the time would not be Biden).

    If Biden is dead, and they are using a clone/double/look-alike etc.,
    you would answer: Biden is dead.
    There's a school of thought that some of the characters are taken to "the spa", which is GTMO, i.e. Guantanamo Bay detention camp which is a United States military prison located within Guantanamo Bay Naval Base. There are other "spas" across the world as well. Replacements are used to keep the movie going.

    It's hard to know who's been nixed, who waits for their comeuppance, or how much of it is fueled 'hopium.'

    I've given myself a time out from it all.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 21st April 2022 at 13:46.

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  19. Link to Post #30
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    I've given myself a time out from it all.
    Good idea!

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  21. Link to Post #31
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    I can't help but reflect on some of the testimony given back in the day about the "Others", and the comments about people being worried that they couod be walking among us without us knowing, like "Stranger at the Pentagon".. And even when it was suggested they could even be in the White House... And then people like James Forestall began to get bumped off...

    Just knowing what we have commonly available now, makes one wonder, what do they have that we aren't aware of? It doesn't take much effort to begin to piece together technologies for this and that, and realize that absolutely they could be using such things. If they only present the tech in bits and pieces, they hope we won't figure out that it all can be compiled into one such being.

    Sometimes during the day I ponder such things and just go quiet in my daily routine. Really one cannot share what they're really thinking about when someone is whining about something mundane lol... I think I would go nuts if The Avalon community didn't exist hahaha.

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  23. Link to Post #32
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    Smile Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Most Avaloners who have read this post and/or taken part in the poll are probably scratching their heads wondering what this is all about.
    If not for a fairly recent occurrence, I for one would belong to that group of confused members.

    Before I explain what I mean, let me say this about the poll.
    This is not rocket science. On this planet a person can either be dead or alive, much like a woman can either be pregnant or not pregnant.

    Is it possible for someone to have died/been murdered etc. and the public not have been notified about? Of course.
    But even in those cases, there is no grey area. The person would be dead, but most of the public wouldn't have learned about it.
    In cases like this, it is possible that a body double could be used.

    Is it possible for someone to fake a death and have a body double take their place? Of course. But again there is no grey area. The person would still be alive.

    So what was the inspiration for this poll?
    A certain woman (Kim Goguen) has declared that Biden, Trump and Putin are all dead (and she is serious about it). There is a thread dedicated to her here at Avalon. I have yet to hear her opinion on Paul McCartney's current status.

    For all those who took part in the poll (and Kim), who voted that any of the four men are dead, the onus should be on you to prove your position, rather than others to prove the men are alive.

    In other words, much like in law, "innocent until proven guilty", we have "alive until proven dead".

    So for all those who voted that any of these men are dead, if you have the time an inclination, please do show us your proof.
    The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.

    I also admitted I don't really have any idea, reliant as are we all, on media that could be faked or distorted? I've never met any of these people, they exist only on screens and in newspapers. All of which can be faked. In fact, please prove these people exist before I tell you if they're dead and solve the problem of hard solipsism whilst you're at it

    Now you could easily say 'aha he can't back his claim up so now he's trying to weasel out of it!' but that's not the case, well not quite . It may be hard though to support that claim without making others and providing proof would take forever.

    With the excuses lodged, this is my thinking....

    We live in an artfully constructed matrix, the bars are invisible and they govern our thinking, what we conceive. Control is exerted over politics, economics etc but the biggest object of all is control over the focus and development of human consciousness.

    To that end, the actors on the world stage, politicians, diplomats, CEO's etc. are key players. Not because they're making the decisions, that's all taken care of elsewhere, but because they're the focus for the big narratives that the masses will follow.

    If you're investing time and resources in these individuals you need to ensure a few things. Control could be via blackmail, but to a large extent it's not required because they're drawn from bloodline families that are already part of the game. These are the same families that supply the leading actors and I do not perceive any real difference between a leading actor and a head of state. They play each roles assigned to them. Maybe the most talented go to Hollywood and the also rans have to settle for being President

    The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.

    All of this may sound fanciful and I get that. I wish there was a shortcut way to get as crazy as I am :D However, there's one thread on Avalon that helped me get a better understanding of Hollywood and it's relationship and importance to the control structure of the world. I think anyone who reads all of it will get at least a glimpse of a second occulted world beneath the 'real' one in which most live. A world that hints at planning over decades, hidden levers of power exerted via blackmail and secret society penetration of industry and politics.

    That's the real 'real' world, a place where the control of public opinion and behaviour is the paramount goal of world governance and a goal to which massive resources are deployed. Leaving complex plans concerning world leaders to the chance of an unforeseen heart attack or accident wouldn't be sound planning, so my guess (that's all it really can be) is that provision is made for certain key characters to live just as long as their role in the script demands.

    There, that's even nuttier than I thought it was going to be :D

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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy, you cannot emulate a distinctive, talented and accomplished man like Mr McCartney, can't be done, his voice and his playing style, his song writing has not altered (you might not like his later work, but it is definitely Paul McCartney) plus his brother, Michael McCartney who formed the much less successful, but still famous comedy group 'Scaffold' has just published a retrospective biography, with photos of the early Beatles and stories of Paul and his own exploits, it is just impossible that Paul died. I admit there are some weird elements to the Beatles story, but they were spectacularly talented guys, also with bent senses of humor, nope I have never bought into the 'Paul is dead' malarkey.

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  27. Link to Post #34
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.
    Great post, Journeyman. (as usual ). If folks don't have a lot of time, then skip to the last 30 seconds. It's the perfect visual of this manipulated game of life.

    “…so much of our world today comes to us through these screens. Which brings me back to that question of trust. Of whether what we see and hear is always as it seems on behalf of myself your queen and all at channel four, I trust…”
    Deepfake Queen: 2020 Alternative Christmas Message (3:45)
    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Before I explain what I mean, let me say this about the poll.
    This is not rocket science. On this planet a person can either be dead or alive, much like a woman can either be pregnant or not pregnant.

    So for all those who voted that any of these men are dead, if you have the time an inclination, please do show us your proof.
    The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.

    I also admitted I don't really have any idea, reliant as are we all, on media that could be faked or distorted? I've never met any of these people, they exist only on screens and in newspapers. All of which can be faked. In fact, please prove these people exist before I tell you if they're dead and solve the problem of hard solipsism whilst you're at it

    Now you could easily say 'aha he can't back his claim up so now he's trying to weasel out of it!' but that's not the case, well not quite . It may be hard though to support that claim without making others and providing proof would take forever.

    With the excuses lodged, this is my thinking....

    We live in an artfully constructed matrix, the bars are invisible and they govern our thinking, what we conceive. Control is exerted over politics, economics etc but the biggest object of all is control over the focus and development of human consciousness.

    To that end, the actors on the world stage, politicians, diplomats, CEO's etc. are key players. Not because they're making the decisions, that's all taken care of elsewhere, but because they're the focus for the big narratives that the masses will follow.

    If you're investing time and resources in these individuals you need to ensure a few things. Control could be via blackmail, but to a large extent it's not required because they're drawn from bloodline families that are already part of the game. These are the same families that supply the leading actors and I do not perceive any real difference between a leading actor and a head of state. They play each roles assigned to them. Maybe the most talented go to Hollywood and the also rans have to settle for being President

    The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.

    All of this may sound fanciful and I get that. I wish there was a shortcut way to get as crazy as I am :D However, there's one thread on Avalon that helped me get a better understanding of Hollywood and it's relationship and importance to the control structure of the world. I think anyone who reads all of it will get at least a glimpse of a second occulted world beneath the 'real' one in which most live. A world that hints at planning over decades, hidden levers of power exerted via blackmail and secret society penetration of industry and politics.

    That's the real 'real' world, a place where the control of public opinion and behaviour is the paramount goal of world governance and a goal to which massive resources are deployed. Leaving complex plans concerning world leaders to the chance of an unforeseen heart attack or accident wouldn't be sound planning, so my guess (that's all it really can be) is that provision is made for certain key characters to live just as long as their role in the script demands.

    There, that's even nuttier than I thought it was going to be :D

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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy
    Mike, that's not even in my top 10 I take your point on the playing style but I think if you state 'impossible' I'm worried Dave is going to hammer you with the burden of proof you're assuming

    Fwiw although I picked the Faul side, it's not something I have any certainty over. What I am certain of is that if it didn't happen, there's some very odd aspects that would still require an explanation and that deception of one form or another is likely. I sometimes think that there's a deliberate attempt to surround many activities with a patina of uncertainty. False trails, deceptive breadcrumbs, call it what you will. It's remarkable to me how many different rabbit holes there are and how if you dig diligently enough you will often find corroboration. One of my favourite YT content makers says this is an actual feature set of the reality we inhabit, now that's another deep claim that will be too far out for many!

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  31. Link to Post #36
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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    The poll is not clear at all.
    Is this just one vote or is it multiple votes?
    Do you have to pick just one, deciding which is the most dead or most alive?
    Or is it a vote for each, whether dead or alive?
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    The poll is not clear at all.
    Is this just one vote or is it multiple votes?
    Do you have to pick just one, deciding which is the most dead or most alive?
    Or is it a vote for each, whether dead or alive?
    Sorry Ernie.
    I thought it would be intuitive.

    Here are ALL the possibilities:

    1. Don't partake in the poll.
    2. Partake in the poll and make a single choice.
    3. Partake in the poll and make two choices.
    4. Partake in the poll and make three choices.
    5. Partake in the poll and make four choices.
    6. Partake in the poll and make five choices.
    7. Partake in the poll and make six choices.
    8. Partake in the poll and make seven choices.
    9. Partake in the poll and make eight choices.

    Because we don't have control of how the poll function works, we are
    left with the above possibilities.

    If I was allowed to program the poll, I would make it so that
    the person could decide whether they wanted to vote for one, two,
    three, or four of the people, but they could only vote for 'dead' OR
    'alive' (not both).

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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)

    The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.
    I don't think you'd carry a burden in either case, this being Project Avalon.

    But if you simply took part in the poll, it would be strictly anonymous.
    Writing about your poll choice here reveals your position.
    Starting a thread as you named it, would not to my mind, carry any more 'skin' so to speak.

    Quote
    The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.
    To an amateur, the broadcast may well be convincing. Just for starters, to anyone with a keen sense of hearing, the difference in their voices would be an immediate giveaway.

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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy, you cannot emulate a distinctive, talented and accomplished man like Mr McCartney, can't be done, his voice and his playing style, his song writing has not altered (you might not like his later work, but it is definitely Paul McCartney) plus his brother, Michael McCartney who formed the much less successful, but still famous comedy group 'Scaffold' has just published a retrospective biography, with photos of the early Beatles and stories of Paul and his own exploits, it is just impossible that Paul died. I admit there are some weird elements to the Beatles story, but they were spectacularly talented guys, also with bent senses of humor, nope I have never bought into the 'Paul is dead' malarkey.
    Yes, many don't seem to understand that bringing out a body double convincingly is not child's play!
    Beyond the visual (in Paul's case) if you could get all of that sorted out,
    at the bare minimum you'd need to take care of:

    a) his talent for writing songs in a very specific style.
    b) his ability to play bass guitar left-handed.
    c) his ability to sing and play bass guitar in his distinctive style.
    d) the qualities of his voice, down to detailed pitch analysis (akin to a fingerprint!)
    e) his speech phrasing
    f) his mannerisms (without any slip ups)
    g) his memory
    h) his personality traits
    i) etc...

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    Default Re: Dead or Alive

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)

    The burden of proof lies with those making a claim, but... there's a difference between someone outright making a knowledge claim and giving their opinion when requested. I don't accept that my burden in answering your question is as big as if I'd started a thread saying 'Putin and Biden are dead!'.
    I don't think you'd carry a burden in either case, this being Project Avalon.

    But if you simply took part in the poll, it would be strictly anonymous.
    Writing about your poll choice here reveals your position.
    Starting a thread as you named it, would not to my mind, carry any more 'skin' so to speak.

    Quote
    The other variable is what if they have a sudden illness or accident in the middle of a narrative that's been decades in planning? Many could easily be replaced but if say Hitler slips in the shower in 1939 it may not be feasible to draft in Himmler as a replacement. How much better if you had an insurance policy? There are methods using twins, lookalikes, surgery, CGI etc etc. Look at the recent alternative broadcast that channel 4 did in the UK with an actress playing the Queen. If tech is more advanced than we know that could've been done many years ago and most would be none the wiser, especially with older tv sets pre HD.
    To an amateur, the broadcast may well be convincing. Just for starters, to anyone with a keen sense of hearing, the difference in their voices would be an immediate giveaway.
    So I mentioned the CH4 broadcast not because it was so perfect that one wouldn't notice a difference, but to illustrate what was available with what we must assume was not a massive budget and without any attempt on the producer to actually fool people that this was the Queen.

    It's reasonable to assume that if one had far greater resources and time one could obtain a much more convincing effect, even with the level of tech that's publicly available. If one accepted that tech levels are likely higher for those with military/intel agency/billionaire level access, then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that all of us have seen broadcasts of people that were not actually what they appeared to be.

    We are currently seeing what appear to be extensive use of green screen tech by Zelensky, Biden and more.

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    The idea that Paul McCartney is dead and they used a 'Faul' look-a-like to carry on is bat-****-crazy, you cannot emulate a distinctive, talented and accomplished man like Mr McCartney, can't be done, his voice and his playing style, his song writing has not altered (you might not like his later work, but it is definitely Paul McCartney) plus his brother, Michael McCartney who formed the much less successful, but still famous comedy group 'Scaffold' has just published a retrospective biography, with photos of the early Beatles and stories of Paul and his own exploits, it is just impossible that Paul died. I admit there are some weird elements to the Beatles story, but they were spectacularly talented guys, also with bent senses of humor, nope I have never bought into the 'Paul is dead' malarkey.
    Yes, many don't seem to understand that bringing out a body double convincingly is not child's play!
    Beyond the visual (in Paul's case) if you could get all of that sorted out,
    at the bare minimum you'd need to take care of:

    a) his talent for writing songs in a very specific style.
    b) his ability to play bass guitar left-handed.
    c) his ability to sing and play bass guitar in his distinctive style.
    d) the qualities of his voice, down to detailed pitch analysis (akin to a fingerprint!)
    e) his speech phrasing
    f) his mannerisms (without any slip ups)
    g) his memory
    h) his personality traits
    i) etc...
    This is why its difficult to support one claim without making others.

    I don't believe the contention is simply that Paul had an accident and was replaced. If that happened, there'd be so many ways it would be likely to come out.

    The Beatles stopped performing live relatively early on in their careers. So the comparison of playing style is mostly regarding their studio output? The only way this works as a theory is if the Beatles were not what they appeared to be, four young working class lads from Liverpool and that this was as some contend a Tavistock operation from the outset. A lot of people will have already rolled their eyes at this point, but if you grant that as a working theory, then some of the questions around the style of music or playing style may not be as strong an objection as they first appear.

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