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Thread: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

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    Belgium Avalon Member All is one's Avatar
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    Lightbulb A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    As everybody knows safety and justice are the most important things for the harmony and prosperity of any group/society. Yet, when people come together to form groups there at one point always arise conflicts, which can destroy much of the harmony and ethics of the group if left unsolved.

    The way to getting to complete harmony on this planet therefor always seems like a conundrum that can not be solved. Or the future "solutions" that are forced upon us are really unbalanced.

    Yet, I’ve got some ideas of how things can still work out. (Combining ancient and modern knowledge and modern technology while still having real people in charge.)
    I would love to hear all your opinions; ideas & get constructive feedback on this.

    I was thinking of a system that will PREVENT the escalation of any conflict and can be used to SOLVE escalated conflicts as well.
    The system should be FREE and ACCESSIBLE to everyone. It should be structured by using simple to follow steps. Like anyone should be able to send a dispute about anything that disturbs them … That can be escalated to a claim …

    And there should be a group of real & EMPATHIC PEOPLE who look into each problem to try to give the right ADVICE or give steps that need to be followed to solve any escalated conflict.

    For having a more just system the group of people in charge of giving the advice could amongst other things, use ancient KNOWLEDGE, like numerology, to gain more clarity about each situation and all people involved, which I think would be advisable. Also things like numerology could be useful in choosing innate empathic people, who are responsible and balanced enough for being in charge of giving advice in conflict situations.

    Quote Summary of the requirements for a successful new Justice System to prevent and solve conflicts:

    - FREE and ACCESSIBLE to everyone
    - structured by using SIMPLE to follow steps
    - run by REAL PEOPLE who have all the talents necessary for doing the job correctly (EMPATHIC, responsible, balanced, smart)
    - DIGITAL accessibility by ethernet, wifi etc. ( in anticipation of wireless connections that are more beneficial to human heath)
    - accessibility by telephone? (for the people that have/know no other way): but least easy option
    - using all harmonious MODERN & ANCIENT TECHNIQUES to gain clarity about any conflict situation
    Anyway these are just some ideas for how our new justice & safety system could look in the world we want to create. Above ideas are not 100% complete yet.

    Any and all suggestions of how things can be improved or what you’d like to see as how a new justice & safety system could look are welcome.

    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:56.
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    Ireland Avalon Member JackMcThorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Just to be a devil's advocate, but a lot of the alternative subculture is not in favour of a new world order.

    Further:

    The exact quotation, which is from a letter that Franklin is believed to have written on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly, reads, those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    Basically, your ideas are sound, but possibly a little naive. I do not mean this in a bad way, I mean it from the perspective that it is a very imperfect world and countless organizations specialize in diplomacy and yet serious [violent] conflicts continue.

    The psychology of a school yard altercation is not much different from the psychology of opposing world leaders. A bully is a bully, regardless of stature.

    Consider the escalation of 2 parties involved in a divorce. [Not necessarily violent, but there are many records of violence in the home, [particularly in america, where I am from].]

    The law accounts for these issues and although many smaller areas of conflict might not be reported, we see more than our fair share in the media or in courts with backlogs of criminal and civil cases.

    There are three key aspects to world conflict: [However, even some of these conversations between 2 people can escalate.]

    1. Politics
    2. Religion
    3. Property including Territory

    The best diplomats in the world, the best mediators in the world: still cannot manage conflict from escalating into violence.

    My history teacher in secondary school mentioned america has not gone more than 8 years without being involved in some kind of violent conflict during its entire history. America won in 1991 The Gulf War or the Liberation of Kuwait, the only win since WWII. And they think they have the best or smartest diplomats in the world. It is pathetic. America is supposed to be an example and walk tall, and it is far from any example.

    I've grown a bit cynical over the years. You have some nice ideas; however, it will be a long, long time before humanity is ready for them.
    Irishness is not primarily a question of birth or blood or language; it is the condition of being involved in the Irish situation, and usually of being mauled by it. ~ Conor C. O'Brien [1917-2oo8]

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    I think a major issue for humanity is that human emotion is very delicate and sensitive to negative energy - it only takes one tiny drop of poison and it kills the whole pond, so it has to be drained and started again. At the same time one cannot be threatened with good, only bad, which is how the world is presently ruled

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    United States Avalon Member melissanederland's Avatar
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    I don’t want a new justice system or a new world order. I want the corrupt out of power and persecuted everywhere.

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    @ JackMcThorn:

    BE THE CHANGE:

    Okay, well everyone most likely likes to feel safe in the world they know. No one really likes the idea of change because it activates a sense of uncertainty and fear.
    But things change continuously and the world/societal structures are changing at a rapid pace whether we like it or not.

    I think that it is better that all the people come up with new ideas for a new world that is safe and just for everyone than letting things escalate further as what is happening now.

    COURAGE SAFETY and protection of our LIBERTIES:

    That quotation from Franklin is very applicable to how the masses are being misguided now, but does not apply to the ideas for the new justice system I proposed here.

    To bring forth new ideas takes a lot of courage and the safety the new system would provide is based on keeping essental liberties (so I think Franklin would've been happy with it).

    That it is an imperfect world should not discourage us to improve it. If we don’t strive for a better world things will not improve.

    CURRENT SYSTEM:

    To me, the believe in that current organization are capable of solving any conflicts is an illusion which is easily broken if you’ve ever needed to rely on any of these systems. This does not mean that there are no kind people working in these flawed systems! It just means the structure, knowledge and capability of all these organizations is very limited.
    Also all current organizations are functioning in a capitalistic system and in essence do not and can not really help victims of conflict/crime or cure criminals.

    Mostly their focus is on helping people when things have already escalated beyond repair.

    With the new system; conflicts can be dealt with before they become a problem, making a lot of other help unnecessary.

    (I’m not really in to psychology, although it can certainly also give us necessary insights.)

    I myself don’t see world leaders as different from the other people (except for them getting a place on the world stage and most of them not choosing to take everything in the right direction). But I’m not trying to involve myself on that level either.

    WORLD CONFLICT:

    I believe that positivity and solutions can start anywhere and everywhere. Whether the positivity and solutions start from the base or top of society does not matter. Once we get the structure and foundation of a new just system going the rest of society will automatically be influenced.

    The reasons why there are world conflicts are very complex and are a result of all the disharmony in the world. Things can not change by snapping one’s finger, but one has to start somewhere or positive change will not happen at all.

    And yes divorce; violence in marriages; violence and abuse in relationships and in families are big issues in our society today. But through using numerology (and probably other techniques) one can get a much better picture of the psychology and functioning of a person, which will help in advising people what they can do best in these situations. Here it will also help that people can reach out to a system which can guide and support them before conflicts really arise.

    Also current justice systems mostly don’t really solve any of those violence situations. Mostly it is the more aggressive, dominant and wealthy person that wins any conflict issues. The other one almost just gets labeled by our current justice system as having lost, although they might have been the one telling the truth all along.

    @ Yelik:

    HUMAN EMOTIONS - ROBOTS:

    Yes, emotions are very fragile. Yet one can not drain the emotions out of humans. It would not solve anything. It would just make us robots.

    I think due to the complexity and fragility of humans, their emotions and situations it would be very wise to be able to be able to gain clarity in how people function, the energy of any situation etc. using neutral techniques like numerology. In addition to studying all other aspects of the situation and people involved.

    EXECUTION OF LAW:

    And you’re correct to say the system I propose does not force any execution or follow up of their insights; advice or steps that one needs to follow. My suggestion is that there needs to be a seperate service for that.

    @ MelissaNederland:

    I know. But the reason why you want them out of power is because you want justice and a better more just world, I hope.
    The world we are currently living in is far from fair.

    Change can be good if we all make sure that we make it a positive change for a better New World.


    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:56.
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Quote Posted by melissanederland (here)
    I don’t want a new justice system or a new world order. I want the corrupt out of power and persecuted everywhere.
    I agree completely if by "persecuted" you mean "prosecuted."

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    While I feel your heart is in the right place, I doubt this will ever happen in our lifetime... The world is still too divided, and wars are still being fought over ideals, and what people believe is the proper way to handle things... It's a bit premature to start making a game plan in my opinion, until humans grow up a little.

    I suppose as an exercise we could all debate until we are blue in the face, as to what would be better... But and until we can all at the very least "Get along"... No border walls will be dropping any time soon to embrace new ways of running nations, and eventually the entire world.

    But kudos for remaining optimistic!

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Even if people resent the idea that we’re moving in to a “new world order” or new world. I hope they still want a future?

    Thus the question is what kind of future do we want? If you don’t dare to think or discuss this subject then I’m sure the New World Order, the one everyone is very afraid of, will create the future in a way that you will not like (and that probably even ain’t good for them as well).

    Therefor to try to save the future of our world it’s essential we think out a kind of justice system that can function for everyone; everywhere at any time.
    For anyone to be able to do this, I think, one needs to be able to look at the emotional and material situation of this world at a large enough distance that allows to have clarity of thought?


    Thus the question is what kind of future do we want?

    - Do we want the corruptness and incapacity of our current system to sacrifice the future of the many for a very short lasting joy ride of the few?

    - Do we want to keep things as they are? Would you openly agree then that you close your eyes for all current injustice? If not: how would you solve all the current injustice?

    - Are we brave enough to look at our own imperfections to realize that even if we want something new, something better, we will absolutely need a more complete and real justice system to succeed?

    - Do we want to find solutions which will restore the balance and are in favor of the future of everyone?

    - If you want the violence and corruption in this world/within your family/ relationship etc. to stop what kind of system do you think would have the best capacity of succeeding in this?


    @Denise: Thanks for you kind reaction!

    But I was just thinking; if my idea or anyone else's idea to make the world a better place does not happen in our life time; then you may be sure that worse plans will be executed on humanity in our lifetime.

    If we don’t go for positive change now; negative change will surely happen. It’s not any more of believing whether it will happen or not. Things are changing. If humanity does not take this change in the right direction, they’re lost anyway.
    There’s no time to wait till everyone grows up. We need to find the exact right direction that humanity should take in this time period.

    All debate and insights to create this better future are welcome.

    The faster everyone can hold the same vision of what our new world should look like the better.

    I know that the world situation will not change over night. But if we all don’t start choosing a system that will be just for everyone, then everyone’s fears of a new world order will become a reality sooner or later.


    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:57.
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    You mean we already have a new world order. I must have missed the celebration. Dont worry about justice then it had just cease to exist

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    My general response will only work here, which is a simple reversion to early American law prior to Lincoln's Empire. That would vaporize the majority of corruption overnight.

    The last thing I would want is a system of everyone enforcing their ideas at me.

    Safety--as in, do my neighbors fail to break the law--cannot be established.

    Our original law was given as the solution to the problems we are still discussing. No other modern country has used it. You are not supposed to understand about this. Not many do. It seems to me the answer was already provided, and then, erased.

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    @ Shaberon:

    - So for the law you suggest to go back to basic rights & laws am I understanding this correct?

    A law that is according to the principles of the Rule of law under which all persons, institutions, and entities are accountable to laws that are:
    Publicly promulgated
    Equally enforced
    Independently adjudicated
    And consistent with international human rights principles.

    If so, I think that can be a good idea.


    - But what about the system itself?

    Don’t you think it would be better if the system would become much more accessible to anyone, anywhere at any time?
    (With current technology this would be possible.)

    A better accessibility of a justice system in and by itself would provide more safety and harmony, I think.



    - Also, is anyone familiar on this forum with ancient techniques that are unbiased & grant more understanding in to situations and people, like numerology?

    If so, what would be your opinion of using these techniques to gain extra insight in addition to following the rule of law and studying each situation separately?


    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:57.
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Dreams vs Reality

    Ok, so today I thought I'd try to discuss our ability to create our dreams vs the reality we need to keep in to account. In other words where can the dreams of a harmonious society flourish and when do we kill our dreams with our own naïvity & ignorance.

    For recently I kind of heard the advice to "just move away from the old system and things will kind of turn out allright".
    This type of advice speaks to the deep desire of everyone that by simplifying our look on life & way of life , and just turn to live away from the system, things will be ok/normal again. It speaks to the nostalgia of groups living according to their ancestors traditions and people coming together automatically creating a beautiful harmonious group. As beautiful as this idea might be. I think this is more a dream than a possibility.

    Though our ancestral lifestyle had loads of knowledge and we can learn a lot from their lifestyle (of how we can live more in tune with the earth etc.). Still even those groups had deep problems, which they naturally tried to hide from the outside world. Therefor it is not helpful to over-romanticize these lifestyles.
    (In history and even today groups that live more according to the original lifestyle mostly also hide very disturbing power structures for the world as well as abuse, violence, jealousy, greed, rape, etc.)

    Due to everyone yearning for this “garden of eden” life now more than ever, I think this form of hypnosis is as dangerous as the one keeping the masses in trance. To make people believe they only need to move away from the old system and everything will work out allright sounds to me like well intended, but very dangerous and too hopeful advice. It’s a way to not look at the negative patterns that brought us here and lays the foundation for history to repeat itself once again.

    In worst case this kind of believing (in the illusion of people being able to quickly live together in harmony without any decent justice system) leads to more hypocrisy; random use and abuse of power; and distortion. It’s like replacing the old power abusive system with smaller and more direct power abusive systems. In other words people do not create a better system/place by not facing their own vices.
    Only when knowing your own and other people’s shadow one can think of possible solutions.

    This is because there can be no justice without truth and no truth when one wants to keep up appearances. Thus when one stubbornly tries to hold on to the idea that people can live together harmoniously without any justice system; one creates an illusion of how the group should appear to function for oneself, the other members and the outside world.

    When then these appearances become the means for the group structure to survive and the group to remain its own order. Then the appearances and naïvety of everyone who wants to believe or hold up those appearances become the very seed for their own demise.


    Quote The rule of thumb is that the better groups look from the outside the higher the hypocrisy within that structure is.
    But instead of letting all this reality discourage us; I think it should propel us forward towards creating structures that will allow real harmony in societies and groups to flourish for everyone.


    If we really care about making an alternative societal system that works, we should care for how justice and balance can be manifested in these groups. When we do not want to just repeat the old negative patterns, which essentially brought us to the problematic situation we’re in today, we will need to look further to newer structures and systems that will enable the vision for a truly harmonious society for everyone everywhere to take place.


    Therefor I think that it’s important that we all try to think about what an honest justice system can look like before (or latest at the same time when) starting up any groups. Otherwise the pleasure and harmony within these new groups will just be short lived experiments. For everywhere some problems will arise and without good education, justice, health care systems etc people just try to covertly or overtly put the blame on each other or superstition gets control of the group with all nefarious consequences.

    That we need a new system and that it’s the people who make up the system is really important. But we should not rush out the old system just to make the same foundational mistakes in the new one.


    I do hope that all the people who try the get the new world going take a note of this before it's too late.


    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:57.
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Our ptoblem is not 'the system'. It is our inability to grasp the significance of self awateness.

    Thrre is a collrctive imperative but no equivalent individual imperative. The collective imperative is enschonced in our biology and is not under threat. The individual imperative has no fundamental importance to the species or its promulgation.

    Unlike the collective imperative, which is hard wired into our survival strategy, the individual imperative comes about because of ability to self reflect.

    It is the urge to express unique individual characteristics that propels the trajectory of basic human rights.

    Since we do not understand this drive, that has no biological imperative, we falter in describing its parameters.

    The individual wants freedom of expression and the right to pursue any avenue to its fulfillment, so long as such sctivity does not interfere with the freedom and rights of others.

    Until we learn to appreciate the unique position sentience has afforded the individual we cannot possibly arrive at conclusions to protect the individual or even to define the goals required to achieve some justice for the self aware.

    The individual has the right to self- determination because for the sentient the continuation of the species is only the start of the discussion.

    (Sorry for mistakes. Writing from phone. Too hard to edit.)
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 20th April 2022 at 11:17.

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Quote Posted by All is one (here)
    Dreams vs Reality

    *That we need a new system and that it’s the people who make up the system is really important. But we should not rush out the old system just to make the same foundational mistakes in the new one.

    All is one

    There is that quote (Einstein?) along the lines of You cannot solve a problem using the same consciousness which created it.

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    @ Ernie Nemeth:

    True everyone needs to get more self aware. And some beings might already be very conscious. But the issue with this is that this is an invisible state that can be faked as well. (Just think about all the religious “leaders” that turned out to have a very dark side to them as well.)

    And even if everyone works on themselve, people still have different ideas, different tempers (and are not all directly on the enlightened level into which humanity will eventually evolve).

    Thus to avoid a lot of the really dark sides of humans to become the problem one needs a real justice system that is accepted on a collective and conscious level.


    A practical justice system for everyone:

    Maybe the best way to think about how this system should be is to think about all the options and functions everyone wants the system to have.

    - I think better accessiblity for everyone by making everything completely digital (but with real empathic people in control) would be a very good and profound change.

    - Also I believe the system can become much more adept at better judging situations and characters, if in addition to listening to both parties etc. one would also use unbiased ancient techniques.

    - The return to basic rights and laws according to the principles of the rule of law


    What do you think?



    - Do you agree with any of the above options and functions?

    - Would you want to add/change options?

    - What do you think would be the best way to change from the old system to the new justice system?

    - Do you think it would be a good idea to have it running parallell to the old justice system, to be of service for the new groups and societies forming?

    - What kind of problems/solutions do you see with the old/new justice system?


    All your inspiration, remarks, premonitions, ..., about these ideas are welcome.


    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:58.
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    7bhttps://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...l=1#post120879

    This is an old thread of mine.
    It lists 10 articles of rights.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Things fall apart, in time across space

    That is the nature of our reality

    Whether we like it or not

    Such a system might enjoy some popular success as well as institutional coherence and authority

    At first

    For a while

    But over time it would degrade as human nature

    Played its role and

    Things changed according to ease and tribal affiliation

    But hey

    Let's do something

    Because something has to be

    Done.

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    @ Ernie Nemeth:

    Thanks for the reaction. It’s great to read that there are other people who realize the importance of having a new legal system ready for when the old structures stop functioning. And it’s surely necessary to think about and discuss all the rights and laws that should be at the core of this system.


    For it's only when enough people collectively agree on what and how a new system should be that it will get it’s sigificance, to really change things for the better.


    @Mark:

    Thanks for the beautiful wording.

    I do agree that no system is really meant to be eternal. Everything evolves and changes over time.

    This system might serve to bring guidance and stability as long as humanity did not yet reach its full potential. But I think it’s a necessary step in between the mess humanity is in now and the enlightened world we want to see arise.

    Thus I hope we can all together create this step.


    All is one


    - If we could all get devoted to creating a better future for each other and the planet we might just succeed in it.
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:58.
    Please don’t use the apples of someone else’s tree to satisfy your own thirst. (If you did eat another’s fruit; have the decency to give some fruit back.)
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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    A NEED FOR SELF-SUFFICIENT LIVING:

    Right now, due to all the changes and uncertainties in food & energy etc. there is a speed up happening of people returning to growing their own food; local self-sufficient communities and collectives.

    The consciousness change to where every person realizes they have some responsibility in (need for) providing options to feed themselves to connect with nature etc. is happening now.

    For self sufficient living in groups:
    - food, clean drinking water, shelter, clean air ➔➔➔are the basic needs.
    - But what only a few people realize is that the ➔➔➔ need for rules and a justice structure in any group emerge at almost the same time

    It’s a structure maybe no one wants to think about until it’s too late and all the conflicts start to destroy all the abundance one has just created.

    - Do we first need to go through al; the fights and conflicts between each other to realize we do need a structure to facilitate harmony in any group?

    - Do we really need all the violence and disharmony as a catalyst of severe change or can and will we create the change without our seemingly collective subconscious need to go through all the struggles first?

    I do hope humanity can be wise enough to create completely new structures which fit their needs in advance of the needs presenting themselves as problems.


    ROADMAP TO OUR FUTURE:

    Your future & the future of humanity can, in a way, be compared to a journey.

    Just like planning a journey one needs to think about the destinations one likes to visit and how one likes to get there and what things one wants to take one the journey and what to leave at home.

    Humanity is kind of on journey to a new future now.

    - What do we/you want to take with you (values, needs, emotional state, ideas, possessions)
    - where do we/you want the destiny to be (desires, wishes, dreams, visions),
    - how do we/you like to get there (structures & systems or problems & chaos) …
    - what do we/you need


    Where do current systems block the flow of abundance and harmony?

    Can we commit to making this world a better place?

    Are we committed enough to also creating the foundation for new legal; financial etc. infrastructures that will truly facilitate the creation for this better world?

    Can we create enough space for everyone to be able to live & act from the peace within themselves and thus contributing to a harmonious whole?
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:58.
    Please don’t use the apples of someone else’s tree to satisfy your own thirst. (If you did eat another’s fruit; have the decency to give some fruit back.)
    IF YOU WANT TO SEE A GARDEN OF EDEN ON EARTH; HELP BY SOWING ANOTHER SEED YOURSELF.

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    Default Re: A NEW JUSTICE SYSTEM for OUR NEW WORLD (order)

    Quote Posted by All is one (here)
    @Mark:

    Thanks for the beautiful wording.

    I do agree that no system is really meant to be eternal. Everything evolves and changes over time.

    This system might serve to bring guidance and stability as long as humanity did not yet reach its full potential. But I think it’s a necessary step in between the mess humanity is in now and the enlightened world we want to see arise.

    Thus I hope we can all together create this step.
    I think we must and we will. Everything seems to be trending toward an overturn of everything everyone holds sacred, everywhere. We won't be able to go back to the past, restore any perceived golden ages of governance, we won't be able to use any of our current isms like capitalism or communism or socialism, because those are academic ideas that have never really manifest as pure examples of type in the real world anyway and if there is anything we have learned from the 20th Century, it is that ideologies and ideologues are the primary modality through which more entrenched interests/powers subvert authority and guide society in predatory and eltists ways.

    Hopefully, we have learned our lesson and such lessons have permeated world cultures to the extent that everybody recognizes that true, humane governance must be geared toward the highest outcome for all of the people, no matter their station in life.

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