View Poll Results: Do you believe in God ?

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  • I believe that God is the prime Creator of everything.

    55 61.11%
  • I believe in many gods.

    0 0%
  • I believe in god that had a human form.

    2 2.22%
  • I believe in spirituality only.

    10 11.11%
  • I still have to clear up my concept of God.

    16 17.78%
  • I don't believe in existence of God.

    7 7.78%
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Thread: Do you believe in God ?

  1. Link to Post #121
    Albania Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Could you please provide proof to everyone here that Jesus was born from a virgin?
    It's mentioned several times in the Gospel and the Quran, but if you refuse all Scriptures, you won't believe this either.

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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Could you please provide proof to everyone here that Jesus was born from a virgin?
    It's mentioned several times in the Gospel and the Quran, but if you refuse all Scriptures, you won't believe this either.
    I had a feeling I would receive a reply along these lines.
    To me, written words promoting a belief is not proof.

    I don't believe Jesus was born from a virgin.

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  4. Link to Post #123
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Many things in this system are created from lies well covered. Just one big lie can change the course of mankind. Jesus wasn't born on 25 December, but it was appointed by Romans, because it's a pagan celebration for the sun. They worshipped the sun and still do, if you recognise the symbols. Second most important one is that Jesus didn't die on cross, also most probable the person crucified wasn't Jesus at all. Jesus lived after that day and people thought he was resurrected but he was just gone. Some say he went to India and others say he went to Japan, we don't have more information after that. Jesus was indeed born from a virgin, he also did miracles, but was a human. A human chosen by God to bring a message to mankind with clear evidences of what God is capable to create and also to teach them for the path they should follow.
    You talk sentence after sentence as if with absolute certainty.
    Could you please provide proof to everyone here that Jesus was born from a virgin?
    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Could you please provide proof to everyone here that Jesus was born from a virgin?
    It's mentioned several times in the Gospel and the Quran, but if you refuse all Scriptures, you won't believe this either.

    Apologies to the OP if this is too OT, but to the posters above, would you consider considering that perhaps the whole virgin story is not actually about the veracity (or otherwise) of the physical birth of a godchild to an actual physical "virgin" but is in (Spiritual) reality, an esoteric device, a myth/archetype/story that conceals a deeper truth?

    Quote In Hinduism, Lord Krishna is believed to be virgin born even after his mother Devaki had five previous children. The Virgin Mary birthed Christ, while Buddha was born of the Virgin Maya. Egyptians worshiped Isis as the Virgin Goddess and Mother of Horus. In Greek mythology, there was Myrrh the Virgin Mother of Adonis, while Dionysus was revered as a 'Twice Born.' Mithra is an Indo-Persian-Roman God whose birthday is celebrated around the winter solstice December 25 as he was Virgin born in a cave for an egg-shaped stone. There is an endless trail of miraculous events leading to the birth of each God, mystifying aspirants with a sense of awe and wonder even to this day.
    https://mythicspiral.blogspot.com/20...gin-birth.html

    It is possible to read the myth in many ways, here is an example..

    Quote Viewed from the perspective of the Kundalini thesis 'Virginity' symbolizes the 'Sublimation of Sexual energy' leading to a connection to the individualized soul. Phrases such as 'Reborn,' 'Born again,' 'Twice Born,' and 'Resurrected' reflect the tremendous physical and mental expansion caused by this transformation. A transformation that may occur suddenly, sometimes within months, but usually, it takes many years (or decades) for the brain and nerves to physically evolve. This process completely alters the normal state of consciousness as if the old personality died and was 'born again' or 'resurrected' from the dead. It is this spiritual transformation of body and mind, that is the foundation on which religions, mythology, and legends are built.

    There is a long historical precedent in the ancient religious practices which considered chastity and celibacy an indispensable practice for spiritual advancement. Even to this day, Catholic and Buddhists monks take a vow of celibacy. Different religious sects had understood the link between sublimation of sexual energies and spirituality but through the long march of history have lost its significance. While in Yogic and Taoist Philosophies this knowledge of the biological nature of recirculated sexual essences has never been forgotten and is taught openly. Western patriarchal religions regard sexual procreation as a legitimate avenue open to expression, but Urdhva–Retas , (i.e., sublimation) does not factor into their belief system except in a subconscious manner. There are particular faiths such as the Catholic religion that still practices celibacy but without any link to higher consciousness.

    The ancient philosophers believed that humanity was a reflection of the universe, as indicated in their universal motto, "As Above so Below." Interpreted in this way, the Gods, Goddess, and Divine child become personifications of psychological forces within oneself. Therefore the trinity of forces exists within, as the Virgin Goddess is a personification of Kundalini. She is the dormant Shakti, whose feminine creative energy (Shakti) rises upward to meet the archetypal masculine God, that flows downward from the heavens starting with the crown chakra. Once the two opposites are purified, conjoined and married,(symbolized by the sacred marriage), a Divine Child (spirit) is born within.

    In India, Kundalini is worshiped as a Goddess. Her activities, actions, and wisdom portray the effects of an intense awakening. The emphasis on virginity teaches purity, restraint, chastity, and self-discipline because these efforts are an integral part of the biological and psychological conditions necessary for enlightenment. Similarly, the Greek Virgin Goddess Athena and Egyptian Isis have the same function in denoting in mythic form the proper practices for further evolution. Arthur Avalon presents an insight into this aspect in his book “Serpent Power.”

    “Man is a microcosm, (Ksudra-Bramanda).3 the world is a microcosm (Bramandra), there are numberless worlds, each governed by its own Lords, though there is one great mother of all whom these Lords themselves worship, placing on their heads the dust of her feet. In everything, there is all that is in anything else. There is thus nothing in the universe which is not in the human body. There is no need to throw one’s eyes into the heavens to find god. He is within, being known as the ‘’ ruler within ‘’ (Antarymina) or “Inner Self” (Antaratma).” (2)

    The birth of the Divine child takes place by the power of the “Great Mother of All,” the Goddess, Kundalini. When she rises up the Sushumna into the crown chakra the individual experiences, an expansion of consciousness which lasts until the Pranic energy in the form sublimated essences (Ojas) is expended. Brahmacharya is a major biological factor responsible for spiritual enlightenment; it is the energetic component bonding together two ends of spirit and matter. Without a considerable amount of Ojas obtained from sexual essences, no expansion of consciousness can occur. It has been stated in yogic philosophy that continuous celibacy over a period of twelve years is required for a permanent state of Samadhi. Yoga and Taoism have understood the intimate connection between the physical body and higher awareness. Yogic practices such as Brahmacharya and The Taoist “Microcosmic Orbit’’ are based entirely on re-circulation and sublimation of sexual essences.

    Physical postures (asana) along with pranayama were predicated on the knowledge gathered through observing initiates spontaneous awakenings. By repeating the exact movements, the yogi could attune the body to the increasing intensity of the Pranic spectrum. Why would anyone believe that the physical stretching (asana) or Breathing (Pranayama) could affect the spiritual unless of course the human body itself is saturated with cosmic intelligence? The yogic system is focused on merging individual consciousness with Brahman; the vital energy for this is provided in Brahmacharya; to understand the symbol of the "Virgin Birth" one needs to be conversant with Yogic Philosophy. Sri Swami Sivananda has written these thoughts on Brahmacharya:
    https://mythicspiral.blogspot.com/20...gin-birth.html

    I have read somewhere that Belief and Gnosis (knowledge) are polar opposites.
    Last edited by pueblo; 16th June 2022 at 20:36. Reason: to be clear

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  6. Link to Post #124
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    One thing is important to be mentioned, that since the beginning until later times, there were chosen people, called also prophets or messengers that brought the same message in different times and place. They brought the message in different ways about one monotheistic religion and one God. We can find Scriptures about monotheistic religion in many countries and cultures, but needs to be read with caution because some texts has been corrupted from the original. When a prophet came to the people and spoke about one God, he brought conflict to the community, because people wanted to believe what they desired and not what someone tells them it's right to believe. So almost everyone of them were threaten with their life. There are many stories about them, but I will mention some: The story of Noah and the Ark, Abraham in Babylon, Moses in Egypt, David in Israel, the story of Jesus and Muhammad in Arabia. They were all targets of the leaders of that country and also of most of people. Despite from the challenges, all of them fulfilled their task successfully, but it would never be possible for them to succeed, without divine intervention.
    Last edited by Eagle Eye; 16th June 2022 at 21:25.

  7. Link to Post #125
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)

    Other totem manifestations:
    Grounding coin/ totem/ stone/ crystal
    Soothing coin/ totem/ stone/ crystal
    Sensory coin/ totem/ stone/ crystal
    (to name a few)

    Knock Knock

  8. Link to Post #126
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)
    To me that's a very interesting take!

    For me it's like saying "Knowing something to be true and believing something to be true" are the same.

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  10. Link to Post #127
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)
    To me that's a very interesting take!

    For me it's like saying "Knowing something to be true and believing something to be true" are the same.
    Yes,

    without either being THE true itself
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)
    To me that's a very interesting take!

    For me it's like saying "Knowing something to be true and believing something to be true" are the same.
    Yes,

    without either being THE true itself
    Sure OK, I'll give you that one.
    But surely you believe certain things in this world are THE truth?
    It's those truths that I was referring to, not the other ones.

    They can't be two sides of the same coin.

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  13. Link to Post #129
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)
    To me that's a very interesting take!

    For me it's like saying "Knowing something to be true and believing something to be true" are the same.
    Yes,

    without either being THE true itself
    Sure OK, I'll give you that one.
    But surely you believe certain things in this world are THE truth?
    It's those truths that I was referring to, not the other ones.

    They can't be two sides of the same coin.
    What's the coin made of? Are not the side(s) made of the same stuff?
    Knock Knock

  14. Link to Post #130
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)
    To me that's a very interesting take!

    For me it's like saying "Knowing something to be true and believing something to be true" are the same.
    Yes,

    without either being THE true itself
    Sure OK, I'll give you that one.
    But surely you believe certain things in this world are THE truth?
    It's those truths that I was referring to, not the other ones.

    They can't be two sides of the same coin.
    What's the coin made of? Are not the side(s) made of the same stuff?
    Sure I know what you mean.
    But when I said "They can't be two sides of the same coin" I meant that literally.

    So when you have THE truth, it can NEVER occupy the other side of a coin that has believing on one side.

    Believing can't come anywhere near THE truth, or someone will always say,"Oh that's just two sides of the same coin."

    You need a separate coin for THE truth and a separate coin for believing.
    and preferably have THE truth on both sides of one coin and believing on both sides of the other coin.

    This way, East is East, and West is West, and never the coin shall meet!

    Understand what I'm saying now?

  15. Link to Post #131
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)
    To me that's a very interesting take!

    For me it's like saying "Knowing something to be true and believing something to be true" are the same.
    Yes,

    without either being THE true itself
    Sure OK, I'll give you that one.
    But surely you believe certain things in this world are THE truth?
    It's those truths that I was referring to, not the other ones.

    They can't be two sides of the same coin.
    What's the coin made of? Are not the side(s) made of the same stuff?
    Sure I know what you mean.
    But when I said "They can't be two sides of the same coin" I meant that literally.

    So when you have THE truth, it can NEVER occupy the other side of a coin that has believing on one side.

    Believing can't come anywhere near THE truth, or someone will always say,"Oh that's just two sides of the same coin."

    You need a separate coin for THE truth and a separate coin for believing.
    and preferably have THE truth on both sides of one coin and believing on both sides of the other coin.

    This way, East is East, and West is West, and never the coin shall meet!

    Understand what I'm saying now?
    which side?

    Knock Knock

  16. Link to Post #132
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    I prefer to believe in the truth...
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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  18. Link to Post #133
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Proof and belief are two sides of the same coin. That very coin is worthless in comparison to the ineffable itself. Putting ineffable and coin side-by-side is a literary device of communication, not exactly reality. Just like scriptures of any kind is not purely reality.

    The whole of scripture, used in a particular way, is like a totem one carries in hand along a path. (On a path of appearances they have limited value. Wilderness can be intimidating to say the least)
    To me that's a very interesting take!

    For me it's like saying "Knowing something to be true and believing something to be true" are the same.
    Yes,

    without either being THE true itself
    Sure OK, I'll give you that one.
    But surely you believe certain things in this world are THE truth?
    It's those truths that I was referring to, not the other ones.

    They can't be two sides of the same coin.
    What's the coin made of? Are not the side(s) made of the same stuff?
    Sure I know what you mean.
    But when I said "They can't be two sides of the same coin" I meant that literally.

    So when you have THE truth, it can NEVER occupy the other side of a coin that has believing on one side.

    Believing can't come anywhere near THE truth, or someone will always say,"Oh that's just two sides of the same coin."

    You need a separate coin for THE truth and a separate coin for believing.
    and preferably have THE truth on both sides of one coin and believing on both sides of the other coin.

    This way, East is East, and West is West, and never the coin shall meet!

    Understand what I'm saying now?
    which side?

    If you insist on using coins, then the question should be:

    Which coin, THE truth coin, or the believing coin?

    I will always choose THE truth coin.
    Which one will you choose?

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  20. Link to Post #134
    Australia Avalon Member Anchor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    I don't get the "two sides of a coin" analogy being used here.

    The truth - a fact or in accordance with reality.

    Belief (in that truth) - the state of recognizing and accepting something as truth (there might be a crossover with faith here).

    A hypothesis - something that could be true but is subject to further exploration

    Belief (in that hypothesis) - faith?

    Obviously this pins on an acceptable definition of reality which is pretty much impossible - and the set of what is real exceeds what we can perceive in varying measures. Given that, then the precise truth and what might be true is going to be different for everyone as we all have different levels of discernment.

    How does the two sides of a coin analogy work with moving goalposts? For example: how many times have you believed something to be true, only later on you have found out that it wasn't... then you set about figuring out how your discernment let you down.

    I mean I used to believe in Santa. Then later on I found out I was being willfully deceived.

    Fun fact: I was the last person to figure it out in my peer group and so felt pretty foolish and badly humiliated - to the extent that I told my younger brother the truth so he didn't have to go through that, and I got in a lot of trouble for that at the time, but I don't care!

    Its a lot easier to believe something was true if you have experienced it. Even then trickery throws you off. I mean, I know I saw Santa once in a grotto in a shopping center and he gave me a really cool plastic mushroom shaped piggy-bank with a little padlock on it that you could save up pocket money in - that was definitely real right? Well it was, the experience was, the core deception was.

    Growing up innocent and gullible was hard, but ultimately helped me a lot.

    Sooner or later you realize practically everything you thought was true isn't, and if you want the truth you need to look inside and not outside - as for what is outside, your discernment is vital.

    I believe in ME, everything else has potential.
    Last edited by Anchor; 18th June 2022 at 08:43.

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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    I will add one more thing and my intention is just to speak the truth, not to fight a group or a religion, but things must be made clear and try to make aware those still committed to this system of lies. Since we made some posts about who Jesus was, if you read the testimonies carefully, we will find out that it was Peter who betrayed Jesus and later as a reward for him, the foundation of Vatican was made in his name (the foundation of lies and betrayal). If you want to begin to know who the Deceiver/Lucifer/Satan is, than go no further than Vatican and the country who controls it, guard it and finance it, that is Switzerland. Just learn it's history and watch closely it's symbols and you will find out what I'm talking about. If you want to hide something well, then hide it in plain sight and divert it with a fake story.
    Last edited by Eagle Eye; 19th June 2022 at 09:37.

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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    I will add one more thing and my intention is just to speak the truth, not to fight a group or a religion, but things must be made clear and try to make aware those still committed to this system of lies. Since we made some posts about who Jesus was, if you read the testimonies carefully, we will find out that it was Peter who betrayed Jesus and later as a reward for him, the foundation of Vatican was made in his name (the foundation of lies and betrayal). If you want to begin to know who the Deceiver/Lucifer/Satan is, than go no further than Vatican and the country who controls it, guard it and finance it, that is Switzerland. Just learn it's history and watch closely it's symbols and you will find out what I'm talking about. If you want to hide something well, then hide it in plain sight and divert it with a fake story.
    Religion is not in your OP question. Needs a different thread.
    Last edited by Johnnycomelately; 19th June 2022 at 10:47.

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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
    Religion is not in your OP question. Needs a different thread.
    It's still an open thread about God, but let's not forget that there is around 55% of global population who follow the religion of Abraham, as a way to get closer to God and to live their life according to it's teachings. So mentioning it here I think it's the appropriate place.

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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Quote Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
    Religion is not in your OP question. Needs a different thread.
    It's still an open thread about God, but let's not forget that there is around 55% of global population who follow the religion of Abraham, as a way to get closer to God and to live their life according to it's teachings. So mentioning it here I think it's the appropriate place.

    Numbers mean very little in the global thing, why are you even considering them as something important to say "this is something". It means nothing, you need to realize that

    But let's not even think about that anymore. Instead, let's focus on something else

    Let's say that a time machine is invented, and the first person to use it goes back to see Jesus when he was twelve or so and then kills him with a rock. Then what?

    a. It won't happen as there is no way God will allow that (therefore there is no free will)
    b. It happens and then we don't have the same history as we do, but somehow the usual paradox in time exists, therefore God is not almighty as we assumed he is (without he even, ever specifying so)

    Which one would be correct, if any? If there's a third option that you can produce, without referencing the bible or quoting anything by bible characters?

    I am hard on this because i want to say this, you are pondering, but more than that, almost trying to look into other people's souls trying to find if they are or not 'on your side', even if you say 'no that's not true', but "Do you believe in God' is not an open questions, is a yes or no question

    But, do you 'understand what God is'? Or do you follow a simplistic view of a God that is very much an egotistical human being, full of very odd human defects and lack of empathy in lots of instances, plus cruelty and enjoying the pain and death of others?

    See? Everything can be twisted all across 'the board'.

    Which God are you asking if other people here believe in?

    * You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible is right... There is no "The word of God because they Bible says so"

    Here you are on your own, and a single quote of scripture will just prove you don't understand what you think you understand

    Are you willing to discuss after this?

    Last edited by Mashika; 19th June 2022 at 11:05.
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  27. Link to Post #139
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    And the reason i'm asking this in the way i'm asking is, that you already gave an answer just by asking "Do you believe", you are expecting one answer or another, there is no middle ground, either you believe or not "yes o no"

    "you can't have any pudding unless you eat your meat"!!!! kind of situation

    Why do you feel the need to ask that kind of stuff? Has God asked you if you believe in him?

    Does God ever had the need in the first place? Does God goes to the bathroom? I wonder if God clips his nails (And why does it feel like everyone assumes God is a male?) God, Gada? Gaga, Lady GaGa? Do you feel i'm being offensive to God if i call her Lady-O-GaGa? Do you think God cares? Or is it you who cares? God could not possibly care about what those words mean, he created me and then he must have known i would say those words, right? Or not?

    Religion is a dangerous thing, is not 'human-friendly'

    Spirituality is human friendly, but it gets poisoned very often, by religion
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  29. Link to Post #140
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    Default Re: Do you believe in God ?

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)

    Let's say that a time machine is invented, and the first person to use it goes back to see Jesus when he was twelve or so and then kills him with a rock. Then what?

    a. It won't happen as there is no way God will allow that (therefore there is no free will)
    b. It happens and then we don't have the same history as we do, but somehow the usual paradox in time exists, therefore God is not almighty as we assumed he is (without he even, ever specifying so)
    First do you think that someone can travel in time and change whatever he wants? Have you heard of the term Guardian of time? It's seem a fantasy creation but it's not. To answer your question, that person will be gone or dead, before even getting closer.

    Free will isn't interpreted as something that you can do whatever you want. Try to change something big and you will know how fast your free will ends, by the order of things, be that on the good side or evil side, unless you have the right support and the permission to do that.

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