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Thread: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Everyone is spiritual, not always obvious
    Not profess, profess too much or bleed from every pore?
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Life has provided us all with lessons for sure. How we react to them and what we learn from them will be an individual thing. I have a feeling most on PA have experienced some very difficult times and it shouldn’t be underestimated how much suffering some have been through in what ever circumstances they have encountered.


    Feeling outraged at some of the events we see that happened or are happening in the world is natural if we care about the integrity of the world as a “whole”. Distilling the events we experience into wisdom that is useful in determining action if there is any we can take, either physically or energetically or just something to store away for latter use can be a helpful thing in navigating a direction for that response.


    I was looking for a video to add here that I saw many years ago about outrage but instead came across this video that I would encourage anyone feeling “what the heck is going on” to have listen to if you have time. The interview with Neil Kramer is about 1 hour and 17 minutes long and gets into current issues that some may find helpful, including the difficult feeling we are having surrounding views of people regarding the vaccine and many other relevant topics, looking at them from a philosophical view and the practical view of what we are facing.
    p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }



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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Thanks for this, and it's an important and fascinating issue to discuss. I'd love to hear everyone else's views and experiences.

    Here's a starting point. Many will have seen this before, but it's worth repeating. And it's true.



    What this means, I think, is that anger needs to be
    • Directed at the right target.
    • Proportional to the "offense".
    And something that Aristotle didn't say is that this is all a subset (an aspect) of being honest.

    That's the larger issue. Making nice with someone who you feel furious with for a well-justified reason isn't honest. Not with the other person, and not with yourself.

    And there are ways of expressing anger that are more responsible than others.

    Screaming at someone that they're a ******* jerk and punching them on the nose (or worse!) might not be as effective as sitting them down and telling them very strongly and directly that you're extremely angry with them, and explaining exactly why.

    My own personal experience is slightly qualified, a little unusual inasmuch as I'm a minor public figure. And there are people to this day, some who've I've never met or ever interacted with, who post stuff on social media about me that's hateful, snide, inaccurate, vindictive and immature.

    When I first encountered this, I was bewildered and hurt. It was like this Larson cartoon:



    Then I developed an increasingly thick skin. One develops that after this has happened over and over again. I still get hurt sometimes, but only very rarely, only when someone who I really thought was a true friend had suddenly (in my opinion) betrayed me. The last time that happened was 3 years ago.

    So I've learned not to "be nice", but to ignore the critics and trolls. My energy and time is finite — as anyone's is — and so it's like a strategic management exercise to focus my time, energy and attention on things that seem to be useful, and not to get into firefights with people just because I feel like letting off steam.

    And besides, as a mod here I get to use the one-click "ban" button, which is the internet equivalent of a firing squad. Simply ending someone's virtual existence.

    So with "Gracy May", for instance, and also Frank (Aragorn), whose actions really did anger and disgust me, I simply banned them both and apologized sincerely to the Avalon community for not figuring it all out much earlier.

    But after that, I never said or wrote a thing to them. They can work out their own karma in their own time without any help from me. I'm not their guide, or teacher, or jailer. They can be on their own with all that.

    ~~~

    I get angry about other things as well. The big-picture issue that angers me the most is the wilful, selfish destruction of the planet and its biosphere. I feel that more than anything else. Here's a tiny story, which happened a couple months ago.

    I was on a mountain hike in a very beautiful place, but one which was not that far from a local tourist spot. So I knew that people besides myself sometimes went up there, but not that often and usually just on public holidays — which I carefully avoid.

    As always, I was totally loving being there with my dog and all the tiny, subtle, delicate living things all around me. Then I came across this big pile of trash.

    Someone had just dumped it there after a picnic. It wasn't heavy, just a big bunch of plastic bags, uneaten junk food and empty containers. They could so very easily have taken it back with them.

    I can't properly express how overwhelmed with rage I was. It was so strong, it actually surprised me.

    It was a tiny thing. But for me it epitomized (served as a perfect example of) the way humans now are so utterly disconnected with anything that resembles what used, long ago, to be an unquestioned traditional value of taking guardian care of the whole oh-so-valuable, beautiful world around us.

    It was dumb ignorance. And (for me) it said EVERYTHING about our terminally sick consumer society.

    I collected the trash, every tiny bit of it, and carried it back with me. The hike to the road was maybe 45 minutes.

    In that time, something seemed to awaken within me. It was extremely powerful. And having experienced it strongly for every second, every step, of those 45 minutes, I eventually felt I should force myself to moderate it a little — because Aristotle might have gently pointed out that it was rather out of proportion.

    But here's what I was thinking. I was like some kind of angry god.
    Okay, humans, that was your last chance. There's no more mercy. No more tolerance. I have no more patience. I want you off this beautiful planet. I want you all to experience what you deserve. I want this entire sick, degenerate society to crash and burn and fail. And it will.

    All because of a small pile of ugly trash. But I can reconnect with that feeling quite easily if I "try" to. I do sometimes wonder what power I might have — a serious confession — and like Aristotle, I just try to handle it as best I can.
    A similar emotion arose in me once under a similar circumstance, caused by: (get this!) an abandoned shopping trolley!

    A bit more difficult to do these days, given that practically all supermarkets require some kind of coin or token to use their carts.

    But at the time it it struck a chord so deep it took the best part of a day for angry thoughts such as these to subside...

    Quote If you can't push a trolley a few metres to keep it from blocking parking spaces then go to a country with no functional government, you would fit in much better there.
    Quote People who don't return the shopping cart are why a punitive system of punishment needs to exist.
    Quote Imagine if every single customer left their cart in the lot like you... the car parks would be a total mess.
    And so on and so on lol.

    (But - with the benefit of a calmer mind I still think The trolley is a true test of how well a person can function, and is usually a projection of their inner world and that people of this caliber are doomed to fail in any undertaking).
    Last edited by happyuk; 14th June 2022 at 17:19.

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    Great Britain Avalon Member ian33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    social media encourages pretence of being perfect, as do many other things in life such as the relationship/mating game
    the undeclared self becomes the denied shadow self, which may be quietly projected on others(its not me its you), behind the nice mask..
    with groups of that nature eg religion, we have to contend with a collective shadow reinforced and propped by the group
    some people channel the unconscious shadow of others. manifestation through the line of least resistance..

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ...
    They can work out their own karma in their own time without any help from me. I'm not their guide, or teacher, or jailer. They can be on their own with all that.
    ...
    If people show remorse or an inkling of self-doubt that goes a long way. The problem can be when people stick to their guns and pretend to themselves they don't need to change anything. The former doesn't seem such a big issue only the latter. If someone doesn't know they stink it's the big problem. Self-awareness is key imho

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Hmm, it all depends on how you define 'nice'- it is a description that can be filled with contempt.
    I have to say that anger has been the bane of my life, and my family's. I struggle with it every day, it is so very deep in me, and I don't even know what it is about.
    Did I just grow up with such angry people that it became embedded in me?
    I try to be nice in a genuine way, to not be self-absorbed in my dislikes and demands of myself and others, not be so critical. Sometime I don't feel nice but act it as a way to connect to another way of being that is kinder to others. Sometimes I have to stop being righteous and remind myself that I might be right about something but still do harm or simply be ignored (which makes me so mad) because of my delivery.
    There are so many things to be angry about now- like all the lies and fear-mongering. In this context, trying to be calm and be nice is part of my spiritual practice I guess, but by that I do not mean not being true to myself as far as I can work that out. And it is really hard for me.

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Playing nice while covering up your true face/stance/feelings ... is EXACTLY why people are extremely sensitive to "hints" and/or "indirect messages" and/or "body language" and/or "tonality of some ones voice" all to "figure out" what some one "really means" ... Because you assume "the other" is like you "playing nice too" and everybody seems not to live in real self-honesty ... if you did you are called "rude and/or blunt" and "egotistical" because they decided to "sacrifice" their true self being "nice" all the time.
    • What a waste of time & energy ...
    When you are 100% honest to yourself first then to others and super direct without the assumption "you know it all" attitude open to be corrected if need be (to have an antenna open that things could be different that you think it is) <<< that healthy approach not only helps the other to know what you really meant ... it also helps you to learn more about your intuition & assumptions being tested ... Getting feedback ... if you allow to learn from all sides ... but what if "most sides" are not even honest to themselves?

    You know you have to be careful to "please" anyone helping them to continue living the lies they (pretend to) believe to be "real". With all the consequences of that behavior. Self-deception is like self-hypnoses ... If you get "results" by lying to yourself and others >>> slowly it becomes "natural" to you ... of course you will defend your "accomplishments" & "privileges" you obtained by lying to yourself and others until you become victim of "like minded" people MIRRORING back the same behavior.
    • In short ... you reap what you sow ... allowing yourself to express your uniqueness in self-honesty is the true freedom of your Spirit and Soul ... anything less is for weak-minded people mostly blaming everyone else but themselves for the self-deception habits that is going on for decades.
    To be really frank & open is for a lot of people "science fiction" and it only happens when people feel safe with someone ... but after playing nice for so long you may not know who you really are as you never tested yourself outwardly ... Internally you may have many "battles" going on "how to be" and "who to please" in "certain way" ... if you let go of all of that >>> and start being honest then only then you get to know yourself much faster & better.
    • disclaimer: when I use the word "you" ... I do not mean anyone particular ... it is just to describe a psychological mechanism that can happen to everybody! ... Depending where you're at and with whom you are working with.
    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    June 14th, 2022 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 14th June 2022 at 13:16.
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Wow, what a great thread this is. One of the best.

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    United States Avalon Member Vangelo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Quote Posted by ian33 (here)
    social media encourages pretence of being perfect, as do many other things in life such as the relationship/mating game
    the undeclared self becomes the denied shadow self, which may be quietly projected on others(its not me its you), behind the nice mask..
    with groups of that nature eg religion, we have to contend with a collective shadow reinforced and propped by the group some people channel the unconscious shadow of others. manifestation through the line of least resistance..
    Need to bump this one ian33, you packed a lot in 3 sentences. I find it quite helpful in my life to understand the phenomenon described in this thread and people's reactions through the lens of Jung and shadow work. For me, I get empowered when I truly understand how external events and the behaviors of others trigger my shadows. It allows me to consciously and deliberately choose how I will respond (rather than being hijacked by the triggering event) and it also helps me heal my inner wounds.

    My life changed for the better when I began to study shadow integration and Jung (although some of the literature out there takes shadow work in the wrong direction).
    Last edited by Vangelo; 14th June 2022 at 12:19.
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    UK Avalon Member Le Chat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    The Simpsons clip was wonderful....

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Being nice and being righteous are two different things. The first one if it's a constant attitude, it will make a person vulnerable to many injustices. The second one will make a person cautious from evil actions. To be truthful is way better than being nice.

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    Lightbulb Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    I rather be rude or blunt with truth than "nice" with lies (or half truths) ...

    cheers,
    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    June 14th, 2022 🦜🦋🌳


    --o-O-o--


    ... and there many ways to share "your truth" in such a way it is okay for others to correct you if need be ... "nothing is as it seems" is more prevalent nowadays in 2022

    ... even if your untold truth turned out to be (partially) incorrect tell it anyway ... this is the fastest way to grow up
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 14th June 2022 at 13:30.
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    Germany Avalon Member Open Minded Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    I would differentiate between the 'ego' view and the 'society' view here.

    Ego view: It is in a way 'spiritual' (don't like that word strangely because it always gets overused) to be self-aware enough. This means to become the "OBSERVER" behind your THOUGHTS and EMOTIONS. This is also what many spiritual wisdoms teach us.
    However, that in turn - and this often gets misunderstood imv- does not mean that you cannot live out your thoughts and emotions, e.g. getting angry etc. You always should be (at least I strive to be) 'aware' of the observer behind this game you play as a 'person' that is just (rightfully or not) angry, upset, fearful, anxious, etc. So nothing wrong with emotions and also the thoughs that cause them. Some 'nice spiritual' people have this wrong imv when they 'pretend' all is well and high vibration, which it is often not. Of course there are emotions we cannot prevent as they are 'reflexes' and also caused by the hormonal system such as e.g. fear in danger situations, or anger at very bad people or people acting very badly in the moment. This is also 'natural' and playing nice here is out of place, yet again, it is good to be aware of the observer behind it all telling you 'oh, I am / this person that is me is ... angry, upset, fearful,' etc.

    Society: We are here to experience duality and that means the good the bad and the ugly. Simple as that. Some are hermits or live in monasteries to avoid this but even they cannot fully. And society and your environment always 'provokes' you. It is the rule of the game down here to have challenges and be challenged, also emotionally.
    What is important though: I loved the post above about 'choose your fights', that means you should be 'effective' where to put your emotional energy (while still in control by also being aware of the observer behind it all) or you will burn out quickly with all the negative health consequences. Do not let you get angry at everything and let some bad things (including 'just' other opinions you don't agree with) be or happen - unless there is not way out and you need to speak up either to defend yourself or others or while you see a high degree of injustice etc. Not every battle must be fought; not every war must be won at all cost. Choose wisely.

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    I think to be one emotion all the time (being happy) may be a little robotic, we all have an emotional body form so although very nice to be happy all the time your showing one side when in fact you are many emotional feelings. If i knew someone who was really happy all the time i think i would have to ask whether they are so indifferent because they wish to be that way or are they being programmed to be like that.
    It is our perception of separateness that causes all the woes we have in this world. What we do to one, we do to ourselves. There is NO separateness, only ONE-NESS.

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    being cowed by other people to the point of a permanent smile has nothing to do with spirituality, it has to do with cowardice and lack of confidence and personal integrity

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)

    Or you can end up like this lol


    /rant
    (Nedward Flanders, Jr. grew up in New York , currently lives at 744 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield)

    End up like what? Two dimensional?




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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    I’m in complete agreement with the meaning of this thread and thanks to all contributions to the topic 🙏

    It’s so hot in India I’ve almost disassembled number of things in matter of few days or say they’re naturally coming apart so please forgive me if I’m stylistically retrograde.

    I would say, it’s important ( with me) to maintain kind and compassionate inner attitude but not to give people more emotional burden or trauma.
    Whether that plays “nice” for the particular person or people concerned is irrelevant,

    it’s simple as to say learning to say “NO” ( or no , no and no) to various things in human life is important and it’s a long learning curve and each time we fail to say no to something vitally disagreeable with ourselves,
    try to deceive our soul and senses ,
    we pay high price for it.

    If you have kindness and openness in your heart , more wisdom or more spirit - aren’t both a gift to some and hard won boon to others,
    people will eventually start feeling the beats of your heart
    and this we find friends mystically ,
    without talking.

    No I don’t believe in theatrical spirituality and precalculated wisdom.

    I don’t believe in medial smiles, face paints, high heels and golden earrings no matter what your mother and my mother said about it.


    I gave up on many dates&dines with self important people in my life if I figured out I would have to force myself to it

    and I go seeing friends once upon a time only when we all feel blessed and meaningful about the time.


    But no matter how many people do I get to see or meet everyday I look into their meaning , their suffering, their beauty, their revolting spirit,
    so we all respect each other for the truth

    and I refuse and do not repeat their sarcasms about this world being crazy, fake and demoralised because it does not help a bit to be sour .

    I feel in serious and responsible role as elder student and sort of therapist to any society, any country I’ve ever been to because I want to learn and listen to the souls and what do people have to say to all this new world chaos I also call humanitarian disaster

    and find we all actually feel so similar about it there is nothing to pretend.

    I know exactly the same situation Bill quoted about the carelessness of people, their cars taking so much space producing so much heat and pollution and tons of garbage they leave behind , read of microplastic pollution in Antarctica and Borth Pole

    but furthest this has got me is it moved me to tears realising those people aren’t hungry or on brink of starvation anymore.

    I don’t have the 16 year olds power to change to yell or “tell everyone” and there is hardly any true anger left in me from ever and if I get upset it would cost me heart collapse these days so it too is a lesson

    about not getting upset about it all but perhaps,
    start thinking of innovative solutions.

    For example “how to clean the Himalayas” in 3 days and if everyone went out to help on the same days it would be easy.

    Since I don’t have the power to be vocal about it my awareness of many topics has deepened and grown instead and lots of it is ..trash.

    So in matters of advanced consciousness, intelligence and wisdom I feel it’s important to focus on long term tasks ( rather than fighting dog -cat wars ) and keep mind in good shape, cultivate decent linguistic experience ,
    reject vanity and snobbism and “small talks” about nothing.

    It would be great if the current human civilisation could return to some manner instead of over reacting and jumping to conclusions
    and if it found value of silence, peace and contentment

    instead of cultivating artificial hunger and desires for luxuries
    leading to equally fake envy or jealousy

    and co-invented sense of despair for missing something
    you can’t immediately have.


    Young generations around us are coming through much more clear, open hearted and fully resonant with the intelligence of Universe than many of their burdened forefathers

    and there seems to be a hope in every new generation
    being personally more aware, more honest , more educated and truthful with the meaning of everything than the previous ones.

    So it was with us and so I see them coming through now and in future.



    One day the roles will reverse , in faraway future this world will be run by children and it will be fast and efficient organisation I believe.


    😀
    Last edited by Agape; 14th June 2022 at 14:40.

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    United States Avalon Member Denise/Dizi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    I would suggest that being "Nice" and being happy are two different things... But being nice can create more happiness...

    I strive to be nice, friendly, approachable and kind, but there are times when I am not always successful at that... But the way I choose (and it is a choice), to behave around others is to be pleasant, and well... as nice as possible.

    I will however intervene if I can in some way when I find someone else trying to hurt others in some way..

    It's my opinion that one can deal with adversity, or annoying things in a nice way as well, whenever possible... It isn't fake, I am not shorting myself the full range of emotions available to me...

    Funny story, but very true...The first time I met Bluegreen, we danced together, outside, and in front of strangers. We had never met prior to that moment... and we did not know eachother in any way...

    There was music playing, and we were just having a spontaneous moment of random fun together... I later found him in the same room I was going to... and was happy that we had shared that spur of the moment random time together... It was "Nice"

    Had either one of us been averting gazes, grumpy, and unhappy, that experience never would have presented itself...

    So for me, "Niceness" breeds more of the same...

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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
    People handle confrontation differently. My neighbor, who is suffering from the same foolish actions of another neighbor as I am, never gets angry about it. I got so steamed that I wanted to burn his house down. (He is stealing water from another neighbor who has no idea, and lets it fill a tank with no shut-off float. So when the 12,000 liter tank fills, its excess simply flows into the earth around it and is lost. We've asked him to either quit the theft or put a cheap float valve on it - he chooses to do neither). I eventually had to talk to a shrink about it - my blood pressure was getting too high, and I could not get it out of my thoughts. She told me something that I put into practice and will never forget. She said - Luke was not responsible for his dad, Darth Vader. Hitler's dad was not responsible for his son Adolf. Quit getting angry over the actions of others - it won't change things and it will not give you peace. That helped met to get over it after awhile. And now, both I and my close neighbor just smile and consider what an ass the other neighbor is - without raising our blood pressure. So see, some have figured out another way to handle things - perhaps they were once very angry and showed it?
    But then, you still allow the other person to steal, and nothing much changed, you are not getting frustrated but this allows the other person to continue harming your neighbor without any consequences

    This is what i meant by
    Quote it opens some bad doors for behavior of others
    But yeah i understand "sometimes it's just not worth it to fight it", however if done too much then everything becomes plain and bland, and then there's no change happening, life gets stalled in several ways. It's like the bystander effect thing somehow

    Well ..... one can not completely change ones spots. So I have turned him in to the county municipality - for having three houses on his land without building permits for any of them. And since he is the IT guy for the county and does the payroll as well for them, he has to explain to the local TV station why he is such a dick. OR perhaps seek employment elsewhere. But we both know that the ones in government rarely if ever suffer any penalties - pretty sure it will be swept under the rug. But I did get to see him turn red when they showed up.

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    being cowed by other people to the point of a permanent smile has nothing to do with spirituality, it has to do with cowardice and lack of confidence and personal integrity

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)

    Or you can end up like this lol


    /rant
    (Nedward Flanders, Jr. grew up in New York , currently lives at 744 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield)

    End up like what? Two dimensional?



    Not sure what that has to do with the post other then a misconception of the spirit of it, but okay. Obviously exercising dart throwing skills. The target you sought is no longer there, opportunity squandered.

    Quote when I start to make you nervous
    and I'm going to extremes
    Tomorrow I will change
    And today won't mean a thing - Alanis Morissette
    Maybe next time?
    Knock Knock

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    England Avalon Member Spiral's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being nice all the time is not being spiritual, or wise

    There is another side to this too, the mirror image so to speak.

    When nasty, sociopathic & manipulative people use "niceness" to disarm & manipulate others, esp people brought up with too large an emphasis on politeness & not upsetting others.

    In particular the British middle classes have weaponised niceness to the point of an art form. The culture of the BBC being a case in point.

    When someone uses manners & smiles to disarm you & make you either submit, or even go along with something, even if it's just their boring stories, they are being manipulative, not nice, regardless of what your programming says.


    That said, in relation to the need to be "nice", is it because you are afraid of your own reactions & emotions ? If so is that because they really are that bad, or did a parent make you believe that because they weren't developed enough to cope with that ?
    Last edited by Spiral; 14th June 2022 at 17:14.

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