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Thread: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

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    United States Avalon Member Vangelo's Avatar
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    Default Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Although this quote is from the US Declaration of Independence, I do not intend this thread to be about the US, its form of government, or political arguments, pro or con.  
    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
    My intent with this thread is to discuss the willingness of people to give up their sovereignty to an authority of some sort.  I am both baffled and dismayed.  

    The motivation for this post came from recent discussions I have had with folks about the recent Roe Vs Wade decision which had the effect of re-establishing the rights of the States to determine abortion laws.  My conversations ultimately lead to discussions about the sovereign individual and unalienable rights. This principle of unalienable rights upon birth is a fundamental principle meaning many, if not all, of the other laws and principles are based on it.  You change that principle, and it impacts everything dependent upon it. 

    I also contrasted this principle of 'unalienable rights upon birth' against other governments that grant rights to the individual as they see fit.  In this way, the people I was discussing this with would understand an alternative principle/approach.  The critical concept here is that people born on those lands are not born free until their govt. grants them rights.   

    Some of the people I discussed this with immediately understood where the logic would lead and said straight out, they are willing to give up their rights for the 'greater good'.  When I asked who determines the greater good, they said everyone as in democratic/majority/mob rule.  This lead to discussion about the shortcomings of that.  I won't bother going down all the rabbit holes this lead too.  In they end, they were firm.  They wanted to grant all rights to an authority.

    Some of the people I discussed this with immediately wanted their unalienable rights until they realized that there would be certain scenarios which would lead to outcomes they didn't want.  At which point they were willing to give up their rights for the majority rule position even though they understood that it would also lead to scenarios which they did not like.  In the end, they wanted someone else to take care of the problem for them.

    Finally, there were those who understood the pros, cons, and benefits etc. and preferred having unalienable rights.  

    What surprised me about these conversations was that they evolved into discussions about taking ownership and responsibility for your life.  Making hard decisions and finding solutions to your problems, for yourself, without expectation of a helping hand.  The majority of people wanted a father figure to come, protect them and make the decisions for them.  Although I knew this to be a common, if not universal, desire, I was surprised at the depth of the need and their willingness to give away everything.

    I now see the WEF/Davos, ESG, woke, cancel culture, identity politics, fear porn, etc. in a very different light.  These activities are all about instilling fear and offering a savior at the same time.  These movements are a direct assault on our unalienable rights and also an assault on the sovereign individual because they want to destroy that core belief before they can implement the single government envisioned by Klaus Schwab and the WEF.

    Comments?
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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Doesn't look particularly good, does it, given that Schwab et al are far from finished with us. I was astounded by the level of compliance shown over the last two years, until I Watched prof. Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis as an answer to why so many have sold their souls.
    Makes absolute sense, as the primary driving force here is the person's willingness to do what's required for the greater good It's their mantra, in a cult, a new religion, which gives meaning to their lives, when nothing much did before.

    Its exactly why the world's religions have held so much power over the ages, as humanity has been bred to lean on institutions for it's governance. Boy, are such people in for a shock when the truth starts to have dominance for a change. Even then, there will be many many, who will dive back under the covers rather than grow up.

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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 4th July 2022 at 15:26.
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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    The Law of Nations is a book about the laws of nature as they apply to human societies. It recognizes that people can and will give up their sovereignty, and further that entire nations can choose to dissolve themselves. It happens. What matters is... what are you going to do about it? If your society dissolves, do you still have unalienable rights?

    Rights are predicated upon others being responsible enough to respect them. If they can be granted, they can be taken away. That means they are not actually rights, but are in fact privileges. A government granting rights is not how freedom works.

    You are correct that there is an aspect of responsibility to all of this. True responsibility scares many people because they have not known it and have grown up in a society that prevents them from developing it. They fear the unknown. An irresponsible population that would give up their rights 'for the greater good' will be unable to respect your individual sovereignty. Unfortunately for them, freedom requires responsibility, and so it as Franklin said: those who give up liberty for safety deserve neither.

    Further research yields this as a dynamic of immature human thinking. The 'greater good religion' Mari described is a result of errors in thinking, based on false premises, poor logic, ignorance, fear, apathy, desire over law, and a lack of technique to reason about things in a way that scale gracefully. It is not possible for mob or even majority rule to determine 'greater good' because that is an unconscious mode of thinking and will bear things out in the autonomous way that nature does -- it is not intelligent, and it will cause injury and distress -- and it is a bastardization of democracy. They defer to authority because they do not know any better.

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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Quote Posted by Mari (here)
    Doesn't look particularly good, does it, given that Schwab et al are far from finished with us. I was astounded by the level of compliance shown over the last two years, until I Watched prof. Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis as an answer to why so many have sold their souls.
    Makes absolute sense, as the primary driving force here is the person's willingness to do what's required for the greater good It's their mantra, in a cult, a new religion, which gives meaning to their lives, when nothing much did before.

    Its exactly why the world's religions have held so much power over the ages, as humanity has been bred to lean on institutions for it's governance. Boy, are such people in for a shock when the truth starts to have dominance for a change. Even then, there will be many many, who will dive back under the covers rather than grow up.
    Mari, do you have a link to Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis? I'd like to watch it. I did a quick search on the internet and found a couple of articles declaring that Mass Formation Psychosis has been discredited by "medical experts". Looks to me they are very threatened by what he says.
    Last edited by Vangelo; 4th July 2022 at 03:26.
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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Powerful response Tiyaira, thank you.
    Quote Posted by Tiyaira (here)
    The Law of Nations is a book about the laws of nature as they apply to human societies. It recognizes that people can and will give up their sovereignty, and further that entire nations can choose to dissolve themselves. It happens. What matters is... what are you going to do about it? If your society dissolves, do you still have unalienable rights?
    Obviously not and it is frightening. Having said that, this topic is triggering lots of questions for me. For instance if I flip the scenario around, what happened in former soviet bloc countries like Poland who now have a thriving capitalistic democracy. I wonder how difficult the transition was for the Polish people (I am making an assumption that they went from being dependent upon the authorities to self-determination - I actually don't know if that is true.)

    Quote Rights are predicated upon others being responsible enough to respect them. If they can be granted, they can be taken away. That means they are not actually rights, but are in fact privileges. A government granting rights is not how freedom works.
    Well said.

    Quote You are correct that there is an aspect of responsibility to all of this. True responsibility scares many people because they have not known it and have grown up in a society that prevents them from developing it. They fear the unknown. An irresponsible population that would give up their rights 'for the greater good' will be unable to respect your individual sovereignty. Unfortunately for them, freedom requires responsibility, and so it as Franklin said: those who give up liberty for safety deserve neither.
    Benjamin Franklin hit the nail on the head. Your comment about growing up in a society that prevents them from developing it (responsibility), brought me to the participation trophy phenomenon where our kids get a trophy whether they win or not and many youth leagues don't keep score. That promotes lack of responsibility to your teammates because it does not impact the end result, no one loses (or wins). Oyyyyy!

    Quote Further research yields this as a dynamic of immature human thinking. The 'greater good religion' Mari described is a result of errors in thinking, based on false premises, poor logic, ignorance, fear, apathy, desire over law, and a lack of technique to reason about things in a way that scale gracefully. It is not possible for mob or even majority rule to determine 'greater good' because that is an unconscious mode of thinking and will bear things out in the autonomous way that nature does -- it is not intelligent, and it will cause injury and distress -- and it is a bastardization of democracy. They defer to authority because they do not know any better.
    It is indeed immature human thinking. I am also wondering if some mental illness is a direct result of not taking responsibility and therefore ownership of your life.
    Happiness comes from within, nowhere else.

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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Powerful response Tiyaira, thank you.
    Quote Posted by Tiyaira (here)
    The Law of Nations is a book about the laws of nature as they apply to human societies. It recognizes that people can and will give up their sovereignty, and further that entire nations can choose to dissolve themselves. It happens. What matters is... what are you going to do about it? If your society dissolves, do you still have unalienable rights?
    Obviously not and it is frightening. Having said that, this topic is triggering lots of questions for me. For instance if I flip the scenario around, what happened in former soviet bloc countries like Poland who now have a thriving capitalistic democracy. I wonder how difficult the transition was for the Polish people (I am making an assumption that they went from being dependent upon the authorities to self-determination - I actually don't know if that is true.)

    Quote Rights are predicated upon others being responsible enough to respect them. If they can be granted, they can be taken away. That means they are not actually rights, but are in fact privileges. A government granting rights is not how freedom works.
    Well said.

    Quote You are correct that there is an aspect of responsibility to all of this. True responsibility scares many people because they have not known it and have grown up in a society that prevents them from developing it. They fear the unknown. An irresponsible population that would give up their rights 'for the greater good' will be unable to respect your individual sovereignty. Unfortunately for them, freedom requires responsibility, and so it as Franklin said: those who give up liberty for safety deserve neither.
    Benjamin Franklin hit the nail on the head. Your comment about growing up in a society that prevents them from developing it (responsibility), brought me to the participation trophy phenomenon where our kids get a trophy whether they win or not and many youth leagues don't keep score. That promotes lack of responsibility to your teammates because it does not impact the end result, no one loses (or wins). Oyyyyy!

    Quote Further research yields this as a dynamic of immature human thinking. The 'greater good religion' Mari described is a result of errors in thinking, based on false premises, poor logic, ignorance, fear, apathy, desire over law, and a lack of technique to reason about things in a way that scale gracefully. It is not possible for mob or even majority rule to determine 'greater good' because that is an unconscious mode of thinking and will bear things out in the autonomous way that nature does -- it is not intelligent, and it will cause injury and distress -- and it is a bastardization of democracy. They defer to authority because they do not know any better.
    It is indeed immature human thinking. I am also wondering if some mental illness is a direct result of not taking responsibility and therefore ownership of your life.
    I agree with all the commentary so far. I think you also have to add in the impact of mind control to explain the mass adherence to absurd dictates, the fear of being different, the reluctance to be seen as selfish, the avoidance of meaningful independent thought/ research/ fact-checking (how that term has been manipulated!) and hence the willingness to give all decision-making to idiots and psychopaths. Joseph Farrell's last book was all about the deep and pervasive techniques of modern mind control. Deep down I think many people know that the 'authorities' are not trust-worthy, but there is a strong and induced preference to remain unconscious rather than pursue rights and responsibilities.

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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Quote Posted by Mari (here)
    Doesn't look particularly good, does it, given that Schwab et al are far from finished with us. I was astounded by the level of compliance shown over the last two years, until I Watched prof. Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis as an answer to why so many have sold their souls.
    Makes absolute sense, as the primary driving force here is the person's willingness to do what's required for the greater good It's their mantra, in a cult, a new religion, which gives meaning to their lives, when nothing much did before.

    Its exactly why the world's religions have held so much power over the ages, as humanity has been bred to lean on institutions for it's governance. Boy, are such people in for a shock when the truth starts to have dominance for a change. Even then, there will be many many, who will dive back under the covers rather than grow up.
    Mari, do you have a link to Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis? I'd like to watch it. I did a quick search on the internet and found a couple of articles declaring that Mass Formation Psychosis has been discredited by "medical experts". Looks to me they are very threatened by what he says.
    f


    This thread may be helpful. Mass hypnosis, or "Mass formation": how large populations become extreme. There are some good interviews with Mattias Desmet that may help to find more information.

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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Quote Posted by Harmony (here)
    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Quote Posted by Mari (here)
    Doesn't look particularly good, does it, given that Schwab et al are far from finished with us. I was astounded by the level of compliance shown over the last two years, until I Watched prof. Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis as an answer to why so many have sold their souls.
    Makes absolute sense, as the primary driving force here is the person's willingness to do what's required for the greater good It's their mantra, in a cult, a new religion, which gives meaning to their lives, when nothing much did before.

    Its exactly why the world's religions have held so much power over the ages, as humanity has been bred to lean on institutions for it's governance. Boy, are such people in for a shock when the truth starts to have dominance for a change. Even then, there will be many many, who will dive back under the covers rather than grow up.
    Mari, do you have a link to Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis? I'd like to watch it. I did a quick search on the internet and found a couple of articles declaring that Mass Formation Psychosis has been discredited by "medical experts". Looks to me they are very threatened by what he says.
    f

    This thread may be helpful. Mass hypnosis, or "Mass formation": how large populations become extreme. There are some good interviews with Mattias Desmet that may help to find more information.
    I just listened to Mattias Desmet on Our Grave Situation. Thank you Mari and Harmony for the links. It certainly does describe what is happening and the impact on us all. The connection to totalitarianism and how a society gets there was very interesting and it explains a lot. I also did not know the difference between a classic dictatorship VS. a totalitarian society. I am glad he described that difference, it is quite apropos.
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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    So often we hear the word "democracy" parroted by politicians and the general public but that word does not exist in the Declaration of Independence or the United States Constitution, which is the "supreme Law of the Land". In fact, the US Constitution states in Article IV, Section 4: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government".

    But what is a "Republican Form of Government" (which has nothing to do with the Republican party)? The definition can be found in Black's Law Dictionary: "Republican government: One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated."

    Therefore, as Sovereigns we have a choice to either exercise our powers directly or through representatives. That is why elected and appointed officials (including the President) are called "civil servants" or "public servants". The key word, of course, is "servant".

    The same Black's Law Dictionary defines a "Sovereign" as: "A person, body, or state in which independent and supreme authority is vested; a chief ruler with supreme power; a king or other ruler in a monarchy."

    Enough said.

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    Smile Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Quote Posted by Mari (here)
    Doesn't look particularly good, does it, given that Schwab et al are far from finished with us. I was astounded by the level of compliance shown over the last two years, until I Watched prof. Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis as an answer to why so many have sold their souls.
    Makes absolute sense, as the primary driving force here is the person's willingness to do what's required for the greater good It's their mantra, in a cult, a new religion, which gives meaning to their lives, when nothing much did before.

    Its exactly why the world's religions have held so much power over the ages, as humanity has been bred to lean on institutions for it's governance. Boy, are such people in for a shock when the truth starts to have dominance for a change. Even then, there will be many many, who will dive back under the covers rather than grow up.
    Mari, do you have a link to Mattias Desmet's presentation on Mass Formation Psychosis? I'd like to watch it. I did a quick search on the internet and found a couple of articles declaring that Mass Formation Psychosis has been discredited by "medical experts". Looks to me they are very threatened by what he says.

    There are many interviews by Mattias Desmet with this subject. Here is the one which opened my eyes. Its a tad long, at over 2 hours, but there are many shorter interviews with him out there - surprisingly still on YouTube.

    Professor Mattias Desmet talks about Mass formation Psychosis to explain today's society
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDDAcZDhvLY
    Last edited by Mari; 4th July 2022 at 17:56.

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    Default Re: Unalienable Rights and the Sovereign Individual VS. the World Economic Forum (WEF)

    Quote Posted by TrumanCash (here)
    But what is a "Republican Form of Government" (which has nothing to do with the Republican party)? The definition can be found in Black's Law Dictionary: "Republican government: One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated."

    Therefore, as Sovereigns we have a choice to either exercise our powers directly or through representatives. That is why elected and appointed officials (including the President) are called "civil servants" or "public servants". The key word, of course, is "servant".

    The same Black's Law Dictionary defines a "Sovereign" as: "A person, body, or state in which independent and supreme authority is vested; a chief ruler with supreme power; a king or other ruler in a monarchy."
    There is a great belief or dream that individuals are sovereign, and even I thought this way for a while, but this is not how sovereignty works. Sovereignty is specifically reserved for those who operate a state as part of its supreme authority. The number of people in the sovereignty determines the type of government: one for dictatorship/monarchy, few for aristocracy, many for democracy (this according to The Dictator's Handbook).

    By way of representatives, a republic elects a few people out of all possible people to the government. Republics are another form of aristocracy by that mechanism. The function of representatives is not to represent your interests. The function is to make decisions. Whatever they decide is what they decide, and if they are an idiot, puppet, tyrant, or traitor, then you're out of luck. There is no function or agreement between a representative and any people to consider their interests or opinions and therefore no citizen has indirect power in the system. Even if any citizen directly occupied a position in the system, they still have no power, because that's not how systems work. They are a servant in the system, but they are not counted among the sovereignty, which owns and controls the system. The government does not serve the citizenry. It serves the sovereignty. In the case of the United States, its aristocratic sovereignty comes from the posterity of the founding fathers.

    Now, people certainly want autonomy over self, which is respectable, and individual sovereignty is also a noble goal. No society to date has been designed to facilitate individual sovereignty. If we want to realize this goal, we must create a society that allows it.
    Last edited by Tiyaira; 5th July 2022 at 03:17. Reason: Clarification

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