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Thread: How Lucifer became Satan

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    Default How Lucifer became Satan

    I will tell the story of Lucifer/Satan according to the Revelations.

    From everything that God has created, one of the important creation was Lucifer, created before humans from the element of fire. He was on a high rank in heaven and given so much priorities. God knows well His creation and their fate, even those who has been granted free will and Lucifer was one of them. At later times God created the first man, from the element of earth (from clay) and was called Adam. God gathered the angels and among them Lucifer too and said:
    [7 : 11] And We have certainly created you and given you form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees (Lucifer). He was not of those who prostrated.
    [7 : 12] ( God ) said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" (Lucifer) said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

    Lucifer couldn't accept that a weaker creation (in his eyes), would be higher than him. He rebelled and gathered his army and fought against the highest angels (Archangels), but was defeated and humiliated. After that God condemned Lucifer and was ready to cast him into Hellfire, but Lucifer begged God to reprieve him until the Day of Judgement and he will make sure to mislead most of humans from the right way, because many of them aren't worthy to be saved. So he and his army were descended to earth and became the Fallen Angels and their leader became Satan.

    [7 : 14] (Satan) said, "Reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected.
    [7 : 15] ( God ) said, "Indeed, you are of those reprieved."
    [7 : 16] (Satan) said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.
    [7 : 17] Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful.
    [7 : 18] ( God ) said, "Get out of Heaven, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."

    After that God put mankind to the greatest test. He put Adam and Eve to the garden of Eden and told them to eat from every kind of fruit and food, but do not approach the forbidden tree and eat the forbidden fruit.
    That was the moment where Satan begin the deception and made them disobey God and they ate the fruit, both of them. In that moment Adam asked forgiveness to God, because realized the great mistake. God forgave Adam, but the mistake had severe consequences.
    [7 : 23] They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
    [7 : 24] ( God ) said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
    [7 : 25] He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."

    And so we are being tested until the Day of Judgement, in same place with our greatest enemy. Satan has sealed his fate to go to Hell, but until the last day, he will try take with him as many as he can.
    [35 : 5] O mankind, indeed the promise of God is truth, so let not the worldly life delude you and be not deceived about God by the Deceiver.
    [35 : 6] Indeed, Satan is an enemy to you; so take him as an enemy. He only invites his group to be among the companions of the Blaze.
    Last edited by Eagle Eye; 17th July 2022 at 19:03.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    I never remember reading such passages in the Revelation and checked them out. Revelation 7 only has 17 verses and there is no chapter 35 in Revelation. Is there another version of Revelation that is not in canon of the Bible?

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    I never remember reading such passages in the Revelation and checked them out. Revelation 7 only has 17 verses and there is no chapter 35 in Revelation. Is there another version of Revelation that is not in canon of the Bible?
    Among the many Revelations that has been made since the beginning, the most important are Torah, Gospel and Quran. Those verses are from the final Revelation, that is Quran. From among all Revelations, the last one is very clear on important matters and don't go into too much details because it can cause confusion and disputes like the previous ones.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    It depends on which book you wish to consider correct .... that does not mean it is truth!

    THE FORBIDDEN RELIGION
    Jose M. Herrou Aragon 2007

    Quote Gnostics of later times, at the beginning of Christianity,who came to be known as Christian Gnostics or Gnostic Christians, regarded Christ as the Serpent of Genesis. This was because Christ, much later than the events in the earthly paradise, came carrying a liberating message, just like the Serpent. A message which frees man from this impure world. These Christian Gnostics believe that it was this knowledge which allowed man to make contact with the other world, the one opposed to the demiurge: the unknowable world of the True God.
    Christ, the bearer of this message, this Gnosis, has been likened to the Serpent of Genesis, who returns to Earth for a second time to help humanity.

    The first coming was Serpent Lucifer and the second was Christ Lucifer.

    According to christian Gnosis, when Christ came to the world, it was his second time, since the first time was in the earthly paradise.

    In both cases it was, actually, Lucifer, the Messenger of the Unknowable.

    In both cases, the message was the same: Gnosis that disturbs, causes changes, wakes up and liberates those who listen to it.

    For Christian Gnostics, the Serpent is Christ, the Saviour who came to this world twice.
    There is a Gnostic diagram of a crucified serpent, hammered onto a cross, which further shows the Gnostic identity between the Serpent of Genesis and Christ.

    There are myths which state that the cross on which Christ was crucified was made of wood from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
    Normal..!

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Among the many Revelations that has been made since the beginning, the most important are Torah, Gospel and Quran.
    The majority of people here on Avalon are from English speaking nations that are, at least historically, Christian. When you include those here who first language is Spanish, French or a Germanic language, that majority becomes even greater. So when you quote chapter and verse and say "according to the Revelations", the vast majority of us are going to assume this is the Book of Revelation of St. John of Patmos, the final book of the Christian Bible. Just to make the source of your quote clear to your readers, I would suggest you cite the Quran as the source text.

    Quote Among the many Revelations that has been made since the beginning, the most important are Torah, Gospel and Quran.
    The Book of Revelation is not part of the "Gospel". The term Gospel only refers to four books of the New Testament of the Christian Bible. The Book of Revelation is the last book. In the same way, the "Torah" only refers to the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, and does not include the revelations to Isaiah and other prophets.

    We have a lot of posts on Avalon about the Christian and Hebrew Bibles, but not many about the Koran, so it is good that you are here, posting this material.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Also verses from Bible:

    Revelation 12:7-9 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Interesting topic!

    I learn some of the Bible and like Jesus best. Pls have a read about the information of Satan from Lifechanyuan values, thanks!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    耶稣和撒旦同等重要

    撒旦是两仪中的一仪,撒旦无法被消灭,也不能被消灭。

    对宇宙生命而言,耶稣和撒旦同等重要,是对立的统一,人类总是把撒旦视为仇敌,把撒旦误为吞噬生命的魔鬼,这是天大的误会和冤枉。撒旦实际上是在尽职尽责地忠实履行着自己的天职,他和他领导下的邪灵必须要想尽一切 办法,比如金钱、美女、权势、地位、享乐、名誉、特异功能、宗教冲突等迷惑人的灵性,防止人们都涌向生命的上界,这就像警察把住中央会议大厅的门口,阻挡人们蜂拥而入一样。

    上帝给我们以自由意志,是上天堂还是下地狱,完全由自己选择,撒旦及其率领的邪灵只是尽力以满足我们的物质和肉体欲望牵引我们,并不能完全控制我们,自己的路,归根结底,还是靠自己选择和行走。

    人间是天堂地狱的中转站,形形色色的旅客混杂其间,有去千年界的,有去万年界,有去极乐界的,有去动物层的,有去地狱的,还有返回的,从而,乱想纷呈,杂说叠出,佛魔同争,莫衷一是。

    当万物和谐时,没有尊卑贵贱之别,人类的苦难来自撒旦的意识一闪念——“我就是上帝”。从此,撒旦开始了编剧生涯,受教唆的天使从原体中分裂而出,有些来到人间也开始了造人,造食肉动物,分化开始了,对立形成了, 天堂地狱也出现了,现在已经清楚了,走上帝之道的回归天堂生活,不走上帝之道的,将被惩罚到地狱,忏悔的,生命不断向高层空间发展,傲慢的,生命不断向低层生命空间发展,每个人的命运掌握在了自己手里,“种瓜得瓜 ,种豆得豆”,善恶果报,如影随形了,这一切是各自的咎由自取,怨不得上帝。

    Jesus and Satan are equally important

    Satan is one of the two, and Satan cannot be destroyed and cannot be destroyed.

    For the life of the universe, Jesus and Satan are equally important. They are the unity of opposites. Humans always regard Satan as an enemy and mistake Satan as a life-devouring devil. This is a huge misunderstanding and injustice. Satan is actually fulfilling his vocation dutifully and faithfully. He and the evil spirits under his leadership must think of all means, such as money, beauty, power, status, pleasure, fame, supernatural powers, religious conflicts, etc. Human spirituality, preventing people from flocking to the upper realm of life, is like the police holding the door of the central conference hall to prevent people from swarming in.

    God has given us free will, and whether to go to heaven or hell is entirely up to us to choose. Satan and the evil spirits he leads only try their best to satisfy our material and fleshly desires and lead us, but they cannot completely control us, our own way, in the final analysis. , or rely on their own choice and walking.

    The human world is a transit station for heaven and hell. There are all kinds of travelers mixed in it. Some go to the Millennium World, some go to the Ten Thousand Years World, some go to the Elysium World, some go to the animal level, some go to hell, and some return, so, There are many random thoughts, miscellaneous theories are piled up, Buddhas and demons compete with each other, and there is no consensus.

    When all things are in harmony, there is no distinction between high and low, and human suffering comes from a flash of Satan's consciousness - "I am God". Since then, Satan has started his career as a screenwriter, and the angels who have been instigated split from the Primarch. Some of them came to the world and started to create humans and carnivores. The differentiation began, the opposition was formed, and heaven and hell also appeared. Now it has been Clearly, those who follow the way of God return to life in heaven, those who do not follow the way of God will be punished to hell, those who repent, their lives will continue to develop to higher dimensions, those who are arrogant, those who are arrogant, will continue to develop their lives towards lower levels of life, the fate of everyone It's in my own hands, "Grow melons and get melons, and sow beans and get beans", and the retribution of good and evil goes hand in hand.


    撒旦想成为上帝就变成了魔鬼

    撒旦本来是天使长,但他想成为上帝,结果,撒旦就变成了魔鬼。

    任何一个自己想成为上帝的人,都是魔鬼的化身或代表;任何一个教唆他人想成为上帝的人,都是魔鬼的代表和帮凶。

    教唆部长、省长、总理、政协主席、委员长、宗教领袖去当国家主席,不是魔鬼是什么?

    上帝为什么不把撒旦剪出,为什么还让它继续扰乱秩序?这是人的疑问,站在上帝的角度,这一切好玩着呢,总裁让个别下属捣蛋,也有无穷乐趣,至于人,上帝从来没有关闭自己的大门,只要寻求他,不断敲他的门,他就开门 ,从来不冤枉一个人,从来不遗弃一个人。但是,我们选择背弃上帝,那是我们自己的意识造成,怨不得上帝。

    孙悟空再厉害,逃不出如来佛的手掌心,撒旦再能耐,逃不出上帝的道,撒旦很焦躁,终日惶恐不安,坐卧不宁,脾气很大,无事生非,到处教唆人“你就是上帝”,“你创造了自己的上帝”,由此,人类就没有宁 日。


    撒旦的告示

    我叫撒旦,是上帝疼爱的儿子,是上帝忠实的仆人,我的职责是维护宇宙生命的动态平衡,保障我父亲创造的宇宙的完美和谐和统一。

    我和耶酥是双胞胎,“无极生太极,太极生两仪”,太极就是我们的父亲上帝,两仪就是耶酥和我撒旦。

    我和耶酥构成了宇宙的对立统一,我俩性格相反,互相排斥,却共处于一个统一体中,无我,无耶酥;无耶酥,无我。耶酥代表光明、正义、生、阳,我代表黑暗、邪恶、死、阴;耶酥代表真善美,我代表假恶丑,我俩是邪不胜 正,正不胜邪,互相对抗,又亲密无间。

    宇宙从银河系到芝麻粒,从人体到昆虫,其生命的结构是对称性的,生命的结构越对称,就越完美,越稳固,生命力越强,越持久;生命的结构越不对称,就越丑陋,越松散,生命力越弱,越易消亡。整个宇宙是一个大生命,人 类就是一个个小生命,就好比人是一个大生命,人体的每一个细胞是一个个小生命。宇宙这个大生命的对称性主要体现在天堂和地狱,物质和反物质。所谓天堂,主要指生命结构相对完美的小生命生活的空间,如千年界、万年界 、极乐界;所谓地狱,主要指生命结构相对丑陋的小生命存在的空间,如阴间、冰冻层、火炼层。

    人间,恰恰处在宇宙对称生命结构的中轴上,所以,人类很容易进入天堂,也很容易进入地狱。人类已经认识到了电子的波粒二象性,当电子以粒子的形式出现时,就看不到它波的特性,当电子以波的面貌出现时,就看不到它粒 子的特性,人类中的每一个成员,就象是一个个电子,当人身上体现出真善美特性时,他假恶丑的一面就消失无踪,但当他表现出假恶丑的特性时,他身上的真善美就隐遁无迹。这个意义是说,当一个人表现出真善美特性时,就 可以随耶酥进入天堂,当表现出假恶丑特性时,就可以随我撒旦去地狱。

    天堂和地狱是对称的,没有天堂,就没有地狱,没有地狱,就没有天堂,维护天堂的存在和维护地狱的存在同等重要,这就象要保持一艘乘坐着百人的船在大海上航行,船的左右两面乘坐的人数必须基本等重等量,如果大家都坐 到一面去,这船就会失去平衡,非翻船不可。所以,从微观上讲,我撒旦是邪恶的,但从宏观上讲,我撒旦是善良的。

    我们的父亲上帝最公正,上帝给了每一个人自由意志,何去何从,完全由每个人自己做主,我和耶酥只起导引作用,并没有强迫任何一个人去天堂或地狱。比如,我创造出金钱、权势、你们可以去争夺,也可以不屑一顾,你去争 夺了,就可以拥有金钱和权势,就可以吃香的喝辣的,让人羡慕、让人尊敬,过人上人的日子,穷人连公共汽车都乘坐不起,你们可以坐飞机周游列国,住高级宾馆,玩高级女郎,多舒服惬意啊。当然,有得必有失,天堂与你们 就无缘了,你们只能去地狱了,因为耶酥明确地告诉你们:“骆驼穿过针眼比富人进天堂还容易。”你们不要妄想把天上人间的好事都占尽,享尽了人间的荣华富贵,还想到天堂去享受生命的永恒,天上地上哪有那 样的美事?

    有些人骂我是魔鬼,你们才是魔鬼呢,我堂堂正正,明确告诉你们,我的目的是引导你们去地狱,可你们一方面兴高采烈地享受着我给你们的权势、地位、金钱、名利、美色,一方面又骂我引导了你们,你们既想当婊子,又想立 贞洁牌坊,这魔鬼难道不正是你们自己吗?“种瓜得瓜,种豆得豆”,你们种了豆却想得到瓜,难道这不是魔鬼心理吗?

    人类的部分人善于嫁祸于我,自己造孽,却想把罪责全推给我,好象自己多么天真无邪、多么纯洁善良,多么高尚正直,多么正大光明,告示你们,不要欲盖弥彰,自欺欺人了,跟我下地狱吧!


    Satan wants to be God and becomes the devil

    Satan was originally an archangel, but he wanted to be God, and as a result, Satan became the devil.

    Anyone who wants to be God himself is the incarnation or representative of the devil; anyone who instigates others to become God is the representative and accomplice of the devil.

    Instigating ministers, provincial governors, prime ministers, CPPCC chairmen, committee chairmen, and religious leaders to become state presidents, what is not the devil?

    Why didn't God cut Satan out, and why did he let it continue to disrupt the order? This is a human question. From God’s point of view, it’s all fun. The CEO makes some subordinates make trouble, and it’s also endless fun. As for man, God never closes his door. As long as he seeks him and keeps knocking on his door, he will Open the door, never wrong a person, never abandon a person. However, our choice to turn our back on God is caused by our own consciousness, and we cannot blame God.

    No matter how powerful Sun Wukong is, he can't escape the palm of the Buddha's hand. No matter how capable Satan is, he can't escape the way of God. Satan is very restless. ", "You have created your own God", and thus there is no peace for mankind.


    Satan's Notice

    My name is Satan, I am God's beloved son and God's faithful servant. My duty is to maintain the dynamic balance of life in the universe and to ensure the perfect harmony and unity of the universe created by my father.

    Jesus and I are twins, "Wuji begets Taiji, Taiji begets Liangyi", Taiji is our Father God, and Liangyi is Jesus and I, Satan.

    Jesus and I constitute the unity of opposites in the universe. We have opposite personalities and are mutually exclusive, but we are in one unity, without self, without Jesus; without Jesus, without self. Jesus represents light, justice, life, and yang, and I represent darkness, evil, death, and yin; Jesus represents truth, goodness, and beauty, and I represent falsehood and ugliness.

    From the Milky Way to the sesame seeds, from the human body to the insects, the structure of life is symmetrical. The more symmetrical the structure of life, the more perfect and stable it is, the stronger and more durable the life force is; the more asymmetrical the structure of life, the more Ugly, the looser it is, the weaker its vitality, and the easier it is to die. The entire universe is one big being, and human beings are small beings, just like humans are big beings, and every cell in the human body is a small being. The symmetry of this big life in the universe is mainly reflected in heaven and hell, matter and antimatter. The so-called heaven mainly refers to the space where small beings with relatively perfect life structures live, such as the Millennium World, the Ten Thousand Years World, and the Elysium World; the so-called hell mainly refers to the space where small beings with relatively ugly life structures exist, such as the underworld, the frozen layer, and the fire. refining layer.

    The human world is precisely on the central axis of the symmetrical life structure of the universe, so it is easy for human beings to enter heaven and hell. Humans have recognized the wave-particle duality of electrons. When electrons appear in the form of particles, they cannot see the characteristics of waves. When electrons appear as waves, they cannot see the characteristics of particles. Each member is like an electron. When a person exhibits the characteristics of truth, goodness and beauty, his false, evil and ugly side disappears without a trace, but when he shows false, evil and ugly characteristics, the true, good and beautiful in him disappear. Escape without a trace. This means that when a person exhibits the characteristics of truth, goodness and beauty, he can go to heaven with Jesus, and when he exhibits the characteristics of false, evil and ugly, he can go to hell with me, Satan.

    Heaven and hell are symmetrical. Without heaven, there is no hell, and without hell, there is no heaven. Maintaining the existence of heaven is as important as maintaining the existence of hell. It is like maintaining a ship with a hundred people sailing on the sea. The number of people on the left and right sides of the boat must be basically equal in weight. If everyone sits on one side, the boat will lose its balance and must capsize. So, on a micro level, I Satan is evil, but on a macro level, I Satan is good.

    Our Father, God, is the most just. God gave everyone free will to decide what to do. Jesus and I only play a guiding role, not forcing anyone to go to heaven or hell. For example, I created money and power, you can fight for it, or you can disdain it. If you fight for it, you can have money and power, and you can eat and drink spicy food, which is enviable, respected, and outstanding. In the days of the Master, the poor couldn't even afford to take a bus. You could travel around the world by plane, stay in high-end hotels, and play with high-end girls. How comfortable and comfortable. Of course, there will be gains and losses. Heaven will have no relationship with you. You can only go to hell, because Jesus clearly tells you: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven." You have taken up all the good things, and you have enjoyed the glory and riches of the world, and you still want to enjoy the eternity of life in heaven. How can there be such beautiful things in heaven and earth?

    Some people call me the devil, but you are the devil. I am upright and I tell you clearly that my purpose is to lead you to hell, but on the one hand, you are happily enjoying the power, status, money, fame, and beauty that I have given you. On the one hand, you scolded me for guiding you. You both want to be bitches and you want to set up a chastity arch. Isn't this devil you yourself? "Grow melons and get melons, and sow beans and get beans", isn't this the devil's psychology?

    Some human beings are good at blaming me and doing their own sins, but they want to put all the blame on me, as if they are so innocent, how pure and kind, how noble and upright, how upright and bright. , go to hell with me!


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I use Google translate.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    So you have humans on Earth that wants you to focus on "Satan & Lucifer" (without real evidence without direct knowledge) what does do to (y)our psyche? ... To me looks like an obsession ... and when giving it almost permanent attention is maybe the whole idea!

    When we use labels & names does that make us "experts" and really knowing what it is all about? ... Or do we need others dictating how to interpreted these things? ... And if we succeed to study the "best" interpretations does it really help us or is it just a way to steer people in to a "mission" spreading the word of God written by humans and translated by humans with human agendas.
    • We have had this discussion before over and over and over and over again.
    Is Project Avalon a Religious Platform? ... I think not ... I have seen many Christians wanting to hijack chat rooms, other forums, and many other platforms for their own personal mission.
    • The vast majority of Christian Truthers or Christian Conspiracy Researchers are not like that >>> have many religious friends who are not fanatic.
    --o-O-o--

    When anyone claims "I believe that God is the prime Creator of everything"
    • my follow up question to that belief is ...
    How much of that belief is what humans interpreted/edited/translated FOR you? ... they did "the work" for you ...

    How much trust do you place in The First Council of Nicaea a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325 who are all humans not the "Prime Creator"!

    Now you understand that any "believe" is heavily related to others do the "interpretation work" connected to their agenda of control-mechanisms even if it was done with "good intentions" they still can become victim of: peer pressure, bias, having assumptions, pleasing power structures, hierarchical thinking & behavior at the time etc. etc.
    • In my view, to question all of that does not make you "evil".
    To me the real Prime Creator is beyond any man-made and/or alien-made religions!

    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 18th July 2022 at 11:04.
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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    You rarely will see someone bringing all Scriptures together, they are so focused on protecting their small fraction of religion, be that a jew, christian or muslim. It's not my intention to bother anyone who is on their path of seeking truth by hard facts, but sometimes they need to get also this part of perception. If the members of the forum or Bill thinks that I have overflow the forum with religious content and this is not part of this forum journey, then I will not write a single word anymore. I would suggest to not dismiss the Scriptures, but you have to find that out by yourself.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)

    When anyone claims "I believe that God is the prime Creator of everything"
    • my follow up question to that belief is ...
    How much of that belief is what humans interpreted/edited/translated FOR you? ... they did "the work" for you ...

    How much trust do you place in The First Council of Nicaea a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325 who are all humans not the "Prime Creator"!

    Now you understand that any "believe" is heavily related to others do the "interpretation work" connected to their agenda of control-mechanisms even if it was done with "good intentions" they still can become victim of: peer pressure, bias, having assumptions, pleasing power structures, hierarchical thinking & behavior at the time etc. etc.
    • In my view, to question all of that does not make you "evil".
    People have said “The devil is in the details.”. I think of God as being in the details, the way we have to find/discover the positive in people or situations that we might dislike. I much appreciate your messaging of important aspects of the whole.

    Iirc, it was that first big powwow at Nicaea that declared anathema the words of a fellow whose teachings included reincarnation. Well before I learned that, I had both affirmed reincarnation and rejected mainstream Christianity, but it def sharpened my skepticism.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    You rarely will see someone bringing all Scriptures together, they are so focused on protecting their small fraction of religion, be that a jew, christian or muslim. It's not my intention to bother anyone who is on their path of seeking truth by hard facts, but sometimes they need to get also this part of perception. If the members of the forum or Bill thinks that I have overflow the forum with religious content and this is not part of this forum journey, then I will not write a single word anymore. I would suggest to not dismiss the Scriptures, but you have to find that out by yourself.
    My mother was a orphan raised in a strict christian orphan house and later raised with very strict christian foster parents ... she was told at young age multiple times that "The Devil" was "inside" her when she disobeyed and was put in the dark cellar for punishment ... I was a victim of christian pedophile ... so needless to say am extremely critical towards focusing on "The Devil" Satan or Lucifer ... to manipulate people with that kind of psychology.
    • Even if people think they do it all with "good intentions" I still see it as a affecting millions using psychological manipulations.
    100s (some say 1000s) of pedophile priests worldwide were/are protected often relocated to continue the abuse.

    Part of the people's donated money to the church went to silencing victims of pedophile priests. And this happened for a long long time. So many were afraid to speak against the church.
    • The mainstream documentary below is just a tip of an iceberg (taken down on YouTube multiple times especially with Italian sub-titles version):
    Documentary "Sex Crimes and the Vatican"

    A secret document which sets out a procedure for dealing with child sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church is examined by BBC "Panorama".

    Crimen Sollicitationis was enforced for 20 years by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became the Pope.

    It instructs bishops on how to deal with allegations of child abuse against priests and has been seen by few outsiders.

    Critics say the document has been used to evade prosecution for sex crimes.
    ps. sexual abuse (especially with children) has happened in almost all religious institutions but so many people assume it is "impossible" to comprehend and refuse to see how we all can be lied too in so many ways.
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 18th July 2022 at 19:13.
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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Still trying to define religion by people actions. Those people are far away from the word of God and I would suggest to stay away from institutions, if you want to find out the truth.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Still trying to define religion by people actions. Those people are far away from the word of God and I would suggest to stay away from institutions, if you want to find out the truth.

    "word of God" is an assumption that we suppose to be looking outside ourselves for answers and (blindly) trusting human "authorities" what words are "approved" ... meanwhile there is no monopoly on genuine authentic connection with the Divine and is very personal (with all the limitations we have being a human) ... "words" written by humans claiming things! <<< this is the whole problem ... people letting others do the thinking for them ... And blaming them later on when things are different ... It is not easy to take full responsibility for your own quality of thinking... it is much easier just to follow some one else's "authority" on interpretations.

    To me they are 100% psychological mind-games even when it is done with "good intentions".
    • Prime Creator is beyond any man-made and/or alien-made religions!
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 18th July 2022 at 19:11.
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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    The inside world and outside world is part of the creation, we can find God in each world if we are guided.

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    Exclamation Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    The inside world and outside world is part of the creation, we can find God in each world if we are guided.
    • Prime Creator is beyond any man-made (and/or alien-made) religions claiming to "guide" people ... I call it for what it really is: psychological manipulations on a massive scale with huge consequences like condemning anyone who dare to question or challenge their authority doctrine.
    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 18th July 2022 at 21:56.
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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    ......I would suggest to stay away from institutions, if you want to find out the truth.
    There is value in the suggestion, Eagle Eye. So much easier 'said' than 'done'. (That alone is a mouthful)

    Most if not all ancient MANuscripts have been 'touched' multiple times. Word of god? More like the word of man. They do, however, offer insight into the human condition just as 'The Hero's Journey' does.

    The moment words are penned they are ADULTerated and so the value comes more via reading between the lines (not the lines themselves).

    Happy trail no matter the chosen path.
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Lucifer[a] is one of various figures in folklore associated with the planet Venus. The entity's name was subsequently absorbed into Christianity as a name for the devil

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Quote Posted by ian33 (here)
    Lucifer[a] is one of various figures in folklore associated with the planet Venus. The entity's name was subsequently absorbed into Christianity as a name for the devil
    I venture to bet, if the tracks have not been lost, it goes further back than even that.
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    Start from evidences found about Nephilims and it will lead to the fallen angels.
    Do you wonder why in ancient times different countries had mythologies that described beings with supernatural powers?
    Why are all those theories about reptilians? Does that lead to the ancient Serpent?

    It's not clear what form had Lucifer in heaven, but on earth Satan is described as Serpent and Dragon, both descriptions leads to the Reptilian form.
    Last edited by Eagle Eye; 19th July 2022 at 18:40.

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    Default Re: How Lucifer became Satan

    According to Steiner's Theosophic or Anthroposophic teachings, there is a triangle of incarnations on Earth in this sucession over millenials: Lucifer - Christ - Ahriman. We are in the time of Ahriman now. Don't know what to make of this material but it makes some interesting reads. Actually, so the real "bad guy" seems Ahriman, not Lucifer (alone). Anyone heard of "him" before?

    https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA191...191101p02.html

    https://anthrowiki-at.translate.goog...er_und_Ahriman

    Quote Through the Luciferic seduction, man descended into the sensual world earlier and deeper than originally planned . Through this he came under the dominion of Ahriman, who works from the depths of the earth:

    "If these Luciferic spirits had not come, man would not have descended into the earthly sphere so early. His passion, his desire for the physical world also made it possible for him to keep his eyes open earlier, so that earlier he was able to see the whole sphere of physical existence. If the advancing spirits had always had their way, man would not have seen the world around him until the middle of the Atlantean period. But then he would have seen her spiritually, not as he does today, he would have seen her in such a way that she would have been the expression of spiritual beings everywhere. Due to the fact that the human being was brought down to the earthly sphere prematurely, that his earthly interests and desires pushed him down, things turned out differently,

    As a result, the Ahrimanic spirits, those spirits that can also be designated by the name Mephistophelic spirits, got mixed up in what man was able to see and understand. As a result, man fell into error, fell into what one could really only call conscious sin. So from the middle of the Atlantean period onwards the group of Ahrimanic spirits had an effect on people. To what did this group of Ahrimanic spirits seduce people, so to speak? It has seduced him into thinking that what is around him is material, so that he does not see through this material to the true underground of the material, to the spiritual. If man saw the spiritual in every stone, in every plant and in every animal,
    (...)

    On the other hand, what have those spiritual beings who want to keep man in his progress done against this seduction, against error and illusion from the sensual? On the other hand, you have taken action to ensure that the human being is actually now only rightly - of course it came about slowly and gradually, but here are the forces that caused it - to be put in a position, so to speak, of gaining the possibility again from the physical world , to get over error and sin and evil, that is, they have given man the opportunity to bear and work out his karma. So if those beings who had to make up for the temptation of the Luciferic beings brought suffering and pain, yes also what is connected with it, death into the world, Thus those beings who had to mend what flows from error into the physical world gave man the opportunity to eliminate all error again through his karma, to wipe out all the evil that he had done in the world. For what would have happened if man had only succumbed to evil, to error? Then, little by little, man would have become, so to speak, one with the error, it would have been impossible for him to advance; for with every error, with every lie, with every illusion we throw an obstacle to progress in our way. We would always fall back so much in our progress as we throw obstacles in our way through error and sin, if we were unable to correct error and sin, that is, in truth we could not attain the human goal. It would be impossible to attain what is the human goal if the opposing forces, the forces of karma, were not at work.

    Just think you do some wrong in a lifetime. This wrong which you have committed means, if it were to remain so in your life, that you have lost the step forward which you would have taken had you not committed the wrong. And with every wrong you would lose a step, and enough steps would be taken backwards. If there were no possibility of rising above error, man would ultimately have to sink into error. But in this way the benefit of karma has come about. What does this benefit mean for man? Is karma something that man should fear, that man should shudder at? No! Karma is a power for which man should actually be grateful to the world plans. Because karma tells us: Have you made a mistake - God is not mocked! What you have sown, you must also reap. This error causes you to correct it; then you have erased it from your karma and you can move forward again.

    Without karma, our advancement in the human career would be impossible. Karma does us the benefit that we must right every mistake, that we must undo everything we have done backwards. Thus Karma occurred as a result of the deeds of Ahriman.
    And yes, as said above, Lucifer is also getting connected to Venus:

    https://anthrowiki-at.translate.goog..._x_tr_pto=wapp

    Quote Lucifer (from Latin lux "light" and ferre "bring"; Greek Φωσφόρος phosphoros "light bringer, light bearer" or Ἑωσφόρος Eosphoros "bringer of dawn"), in Latin also the poetic name of the morning star , i.e. Venus , literally the «Bearer of the light», the red devil full of light , often also called Diabolos ( Greek Διάβολος , Diàbolos = confuser , confuser , from Διά-βαλλειν , dia-balläin =messing it up ) and, according to Rudolf Steiner , identical to the Iblis mentioned in the Koran , is symbolized in the Bible by the snake that sneaks into paradise and seduces people to eat from the " tree of knowledge ". Lucifer is often depicted as a winged dragon ; also as a winged bull in the vision of Ezekiel . Above all, Lucifer anchored himself in the sentient soul that came into being through the transformation of the astral body ( Lit.: GA 107, p. 247 ) and incites the sensual desires and drives .

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