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Thread: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    • Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?
    From a "Depopulation-Agenda" perspective WARS are high up in the Top 10 of "practical solutions" ... on top of that from their point of view WARS help Cover Up their role in the Giant Pyramid Scheme called: Fiat Monetary System ... They know what happened in 2008 is not really "fixed" but just postponed with "bail out money" payed by tax paying citizens who are helping to keep them in power even if it is 100% proven they were the cause of the crisis.

    The "too big too fail" bankers excuse did not fly in Iceland, they fired and jailed the corrupt bankers who were co-responsible for the 2008 crisis! ... And Iceland did not "collapse" after doing that ... and still other countries defended the criminals to continue their money schemes the same type of corrupt people are now making it much worse!
    • * If all totalitarian alternatives to "solve" the Giant Money Scam are not accepted aka rejected by the masses they always can fall back to WARS!
    • People are confronted with sold "excuses" to allow tyrannical measures during any from of a (big) crisis ... WARS is just one of many options for them to have it their way violating basic human rights & the constitution to "fix" things "faster". So called "emergency measures" to bypass normal democratic processes with NO ACCOUNTABILITY to those who are part of this big scam!
    If World War I and II never happened we would still face HUGE monetary crisis that will lead to massive civil wars & mass famine & hunger! >>> "WARS" was & is a perfect way to cover up (ultra distraction of) what the core problem was and still is today. Ron Paul among others discussed this issue ad nauseam.



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    August 23, 2022 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 23rd August 2022 at 20:19.
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by Chester (here)
    This is why, one day, there will be a single global government.
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    So the real problem on a global nation-state level is that there's no reliable, workable and functioning equivalent to address serious international conflicts. .
    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    For me, this question boils down to sovereignty. I am willing to defend my sovereignty from anyone who attempts to take it from me. Hence, I am in a justified war against that person or nation.
    Yes, sadly I could not agree more, I honestly believe the world is heading towards an inevitable global government. This has been the plan for more than a century, the League of Nations started in 1920 and failed, and the United Nations started in 1945 and is currently failing but the European Union started in 1993 (third time charmed) seems to be taking hold (with the exception of the UK). Once they homogenize countries into large geographic regions and sovereignty is greatly diminished or removed it will be an easy process to blend it all together into some form of global governance. We are already seeing attacks on gender, culture, history, all institutions and even race. It would be impossible to remove all of these things but enough will be taken out to bring national pride or patriotism to a screeching halt. At this point, a workable, functioning global government will be put in place

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    The other type is where the media fills people's heads with lies
    I think this is already happening and that the media and the PTB are forcing people to choose sides in the conflict. We are already seeing the alignment of Russia, China and Iran against the USA, Europe and NATO. It could very well be that WWIII is inevitable. No better way to grab control and lower the population on a global scale than another world war. Of course, the minute one has chosen a side they have lost the battle. It is very much like the lotto, you may think or even believe that you have won but the truth is the government was always the winner week in and week out.

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    Ireland Avalon Member JackMcThorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    You cannot have 'self-defence' if there was not a pending imminent threat that requires a posture of 'self-defence'. Using an excuse such as 'what is in our best interests' does not necessarily dove-tail with 'self-defence'.

    The best way to deal with a civilisation without the need for war; would be to provide civilisation without a need for money //root of all evil//. [This is the case in an ideal Star Trek earth; but even though war is eradicated from the face of the planet, many contacts off-world result in violent conflict. A posture of self-defence still exists to protect the Federation as well as the Earth.]

    In 1992 in a secondary american history class the teacher indicated that america has not seen a period greater than 8 years of peace at any given time in its history. [For example, I took his word for it but I really should check. I know there have been plenty of conflicts since 1992.]

    Peacefulness is not only exclusive to 'not war'.

    Quote Each year, the Institute for Economics and Peace releases the Global Peace Index. This is a study of 163 independent nations and territories around the world, comprising approximately 99.7% of the world’s total population, that analyzes which nations are the most peaceful, as well as which are the most dangerous. The GPI evaluates a total of 23 indicators to compile the list, which can be sorted into three distinct categories: militarization, safety and security, and domestic and international conflict. The indicators are then combined into a single Peace Index Score.
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...eful-countries

    The psychology of war between nations that starts with its leadership is akin to a regular argument escalating to fisticuffs. When diplomacy fails, violence ensues. Humanity can be very violent; even at the local, home level. So the eradication of money is not the only answer. Education is not the only answer either. Most people know better than to resort to violence, but many still do. The legal system is not the only answer because many local types of violent conflict never get reported.

    As long as humanity is its various forms continues to act like animals [which humans are] there is a pressing need for a proper posture of self-defence; at the local level as well as the international level.
    Irishness is not primarily a question of birth or blood or language; it is the condition of being involved in the Irish situation, and usually of being mauled by it. ~ Conor C. O'Brien [1917-2oo8]

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    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    I believe there's an old Romulan saying: "Peace is merely the interruption of war."

    And so it is on this barbaric world. But I believe war IS justifiable when it comes to self-defence - such as to repel an invasion. As others have said, sovereignty is key. Sovereignty means nothing if, when it comes under attack, you do nothing to uphold it.

    You could argue the Red Army were engaged in exactly that sort of conflict during WWII. Yet, some of the atrocities they committed were on a par with those they were fighting.

    War is fertile ground for the savage within us to flourish. Rules of Engagement delineate certain limitations of what conduct is acceptable in war. This is further overseen by the Geneva convention. That such a convention is even necessary tells you all you need to know about the human race and the planet we live on.

    But in order to understand war, you have to recognise what drives it. It isn't wrath, revenge or bloodlust. Not really. At the end of the day the first directive of war is PROFIT. Elites get fat and rich on its plunder. That was the case in ancient times, and it's still the case today. There's another type of profit involved, and that's CONTROL. There's a kind of war going on right now outside your own front door, and across every city in the West. It's the war for control of your Mind, perhaps even your soul...

    And in standing up to those subversive agendas YOU, right now, are at war.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    United States Avalon Member Casey Claar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    For me, this question boils down to sovereignty. I am willing to defend my sovereignty from anyone who attempts to take it from me. Hence, I am in a justified war against that person or nation.

    I don't think anyone has the right to take away anyone else's sovereignty and I believe the vast majority, if not all wars, are waged specifically to take someone else's sovereignty.

    Taking this to the question of mask mandates, vaccines, etc... the argument justifying those actions are, you must surrender your sovereignty and take the vax, etc. to protect your neighbor. For those of you who don't believe war is justifiable, you are agreeing to comply and surrender that bit of your sovereignty.
    Bingo.

    And the sovereignty is the sovereignty to choose, to make our own choices.

    The fundamental choice we are all making is relative to our polarity, [ + ] or [ - }, this is the crux of any additional choice we could make.

    The statement of the [ + ] is that ALL are sovereign. The statement of the [ - ] is that all are not sovereign.

    This is the torque and friction in which we live/play.

    Taking this whole structure in at once, it can viewed as simply our world, our 3D Earth-life existence. <-- Is this necessary? ( yes ). Is it justified? ( yes ). Everything is so much more than we realize. Each one of us, as well as all-together in our totality are the living expression of a particular dance, a fluctuating ratio of light and shadow. Were each of us not necessary to the dance we simply would not be. Were the totality of the dance not necessary it simply would not be.

    Where it is most beneficial to place the attention is on our own choice of [ + ] or [ - ] and growing this into the equivalent of making the grade, graduating this level of reality. <-- this is what so many of us fail to do, instead focusing on the choice of others, which is truly what brings up the urge to fight, to force one's own will over others whether that be thought of as for [ + ] or [ - ].

    It is those with the more [ + ] orientation who have the greatest struggle at this particular awareness. If all are sovereign there is no-one to fight. There is only within oneself a right and harmonious balance to maintain. This is why one who is truly working in a [ + ] fashion is synchronously working away from the tendency to infringe upon the free will of any other. I will stress here, any other.

    It is a process. It is a very long process.

    Observing ourselves in thought, energy and action is key.

    Genuine, steady observance.


    Casey
    "Love is what is left when you let go of everything you no longer need." —Raj

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

    War is fertile ground for the savage within us to flourish.
    I agree with this statement if we allow it to happen but evolution is inevitable over time and by that, I mean learned experiences that are eventually accepted by all of society. What I am getting at is altruism - the belief or practice of disinterested and selfless concerns for the well-being of others. Once something like this takes hold in civilization it removes much of the savage in mankind or at the very least does not allow it to flourish. Thereby making war obsolete.

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    I agree with this statement if we allow it to happen but evolution is inevitable over time and by that, I mean learned experiences that are eventually accepted by all of society. What I am getting at is altruism - the belief or practice of disinterested and selfless concerns for the well-being of others. Once something like this takes hold in civilization it removes much of the savage in mankind or at the very least does not allow it to flourish. Thereby making war obsolete.
    Totally agreed but, the system we have allows the least altruistic to rise to the top and control everything. Altruism to them is as alien as brutality and savagery is to the rest of us. So long as this system remains nothing will change.

    [Personally speaking, I do not believe that system can change save for a radical if not revolutionary shift in global consciousness/vibration, one in which the malevolent and destructive do not exist - because they cannot exist.]
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Lightbulb Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    When you are conquered by others who have total different values & belief-systems that will eventually be imposed upon you and your family and future generations to come with dire consequences ... you may reconsider why it is necessary to defend (y)our sovereignty & self-determination rights ... as you do that not only for yourself but all who are dear to you too >>> plus all future generations to come.
    • most will attest to that!
    • same goes for what the WEF is doing to the whole planet right now! << the worldwide resistance to this technocratic tyranny is only growing rapidly right now >> (asymmetric warfare).
    cheers,
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    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 23rd August 2022 at 16:31.
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    [Personally speaking, I do not believe that system can change save for a radical if not revolutionary shift in global consciousness/vibration, one in which the malevolent and destructive do not exist - because they cannot exist.]
    I have no doubt that there will be a global awakening at some point. In other words the waking of the silent majority. Once that happens we could easily watch changes in behaviours occur overnight. We could essentially shut down the war machine in a matter of days. We could either close or force a change on every company on the planet that profits from war. Nations that profit from war could suffer greatly. The only question I have is when is the shift going to occur, before or after WWIII, I am afraid it will probably be the later.

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    The other type is where the media fills people's heads with lies
    I think this is already happening and that the media and the PTB are forcing people to choose sides in the conflict. We are already seeing the alignment of Russia, China and Iran against the USA, Europe and NATO. It could very well be that WWIII is inevitable. No better way to grab control and lower the population on a global scale than another world war. Of course, the minute one has chosen a side they have lost the battle. It is very much like the lotto, you may think or even believe that you have won but the truth is the government was always the winner week in and week out.
    The USA & Europe are NATO, in truth a minority of the worlds population and they are utterly out numbered & out gunned by the others, and it's not they who have come out against NATO, it's the other way round, just compare how many wars & conflicts Russia & China have started & then compare that with the USA, Britain & France.

    Out of all of NATO only the USA has a large force, but it's been made sick with experimental medical treatments, equipped with vastly overpriced & under-performing kit (due to corruption at every level) ...and then there's the problem with recruiting, between the corporations pushing junk food & the CIA flooding the country with drugs it's now a serious problem finding young people fit to be soldiers.

    The European branch of NATO has tiny forces that have been under funded for decades, the french admitted they have enough ammunition for three or four days full combat.....besides the cuts, there is also the woke PC agenda that doesn't want big threatening men in uniform.....

    The situation ATM is that the stronger nations outside the Anglo Saxon sphere have prepared them selves carefully, and are now standing up, other nations that have suffered & been plundered by the West are flocking to their banner, they are openly boasting of a new multi polar world with no one nation or political entity having dominion, the question is what are the satanic psychopaths who run the West going to do in relation to this ?

    Who do we look to ? Senile Brandon who isn't in charge of anything, (so who is ???) Over here we have a siting duck Prime Minister, and two idiots lined up to replace him with the slight problem that you can only be the PM if the Monarch says so.....and there isn't one, the Queen passed over a while back. I can't post a source for that but I bet no one can prove she is still alive.

    There is literally no one to negotiate with Russia or China (or anyone else).

    This is where the real danger lies IMHO.

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    First let me state that I am in complete agreement with those of you that wish for a world where we did not disintegrate to the point of war. I too yearn for the Nirvana described by many here. Having said that, I think we must acknowledge the flaws of our humanity. See the reality of what humanity is capable of.

    Let me describe this idea using this quote from Jack...

    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
    Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?
    ...
    The best way to deal with a civilisation without the need for war; would be to provide civilisation without a need for money //root of all evil//. [This is the case in an ideal Star Trek earth; but even though war is eradicated from the face of the planet, many contacts off-world result in violent conflict. A posture of self-defence still exists to protect the Federation as well as the Earth.]
    ...
    I would change the wording slightly from 'Money' to 'any resource'. This is ultimately about the concept of scarcity. Humanity fights for scarce resources; if for no other reason, survival i.e. I can't stand by and watch my kid starve to death...

    Some will extend this argument to the idea of zero point energy i.e. if we had free energy then we could provide all resources to everyone. I truly hope we can harness it some day ...

    However, I believe there is one other thing some humans crave and are willing to start wars over ... Power. Just think of any tyrant from history. Those tyrants didn't just pop into power... Often times they started with a small, but divisive, topic. One where the charismatic leader convinces the populace to give up one tiny piece of their sovereignty, then another. They set up a dichotomy of them versus us and therefore promote identity politics. Then they ... no need for me to continue, you all know the methodical process where we currently living in.

    To repeat my previous post, its all about sovereignty and sovereignty begins with freedom of speech and freedom of speech begins with the freedom to think and believe what you want (as described so well in Orwell's 1984).
    Happiness comes from within, nowhere else.

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    If my (informed) speculations are reasonably accurate, we are dealing with a hyperdimensional breakaway civilization (including an opposing "rebel" faction with the same '5D level tech' (ie. time travel)) as perhaps the greatest challenge the masses of humanity face. There's other challenges for sure, but this one may be the most immanent and ominous one of all. In fact, if my (informed) speculation is reasonably accurate, 'humanity, as we think we know it' was a hybrid creation of the primary hyperdimensional civilization which created us as slaves for their usage. If my (informed) speculations are reasonably accurate, they are millions and millions of years ahead in technological development than what we even speculate as possible from even the most imaginative minds within this 'terrestrial humanity' that was their creation.

    This leads me to speculate that if I were "them" I would have focused on the development of a quantum AI computing system which would advise "them" on moves "they" should make whereby real-time input constantly updates the data set and where adjustments in plans are always offered by the system. Because "they" have time travel technology, they also have the capability to go back in time as many times as they wish so as to adjust current trajectories. Anyone can see that a civilization armed with this level of technology combined with a sense of themselves as a species ABOVE the masses of humanity (again, as we know it and again, that they created) would likely have no empathy for us whatsoever.

    Whereas, the hypothesized "rebels" (if they be as I suspect) have taken the side of humanity. Which gives me some confidence that from within the original breakaway, conscience can still arise and doing the right thing can still emerge from those who bring forth what I refer to as the Promethean ethos.

    My only suggestion to anyone is that each put some time into studying this "story" and what the key elements of the story of Prometheus represent. I have never come upon a more inspiring story.
    Last edited by Chester; 23rd August 2022 at 17:27.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by Vangelo (here)
    Having said that, I think we must acknowledge the flaws of our humanity. See the reality of what humanity is capable of.

    I would change the wording slightly from 'Money' to 'any resource'.
    You make a strong point regarding resources. Even the scarcity of water can be an issue.

    The crux of the problem lies in psychology, in my opinion.

    A Global shift in psychology seems absolutely impossible. From the under developed third world nations to rulers such as royalty or even elected officials, a change in collective psychology won't happen in our lifetimes. There are still kingdoms on this planet. There are still isolated indigenous peoples on this planet. There is still domestic abuse. Consider the brutality of riots in america. This is a third-world example of misbehaviour in 'the land of the free'. Insofar as the american way is often thought of an example to the world, and in this one example it fails miserably. And there is plenty more failures as you already are aware.

    Consider the spiritual and intellectual value of Project Avalon. PA is a good example of this future psychology. Sure there are brief instances where people do not get along and the occasional unsubscription. But PA is not a society and far from a civilisation. The scale is very small in the scheme of humanity. The powers that be do not visit PA for intellectual stimulation or spiritual guidance. They are typically consuming [or producing] the MSM.

    Some people embrace an impossible challenge, but inflicting a spiritual and intellectual value upon the world in which humanity could 'agree with' is not exactly in arms reach. The basis for disagreements at the local, national, and global levels are indeed impossible as well. A third world war might not be enough. The Second one was the one to end all wars if you remember.
    Irishness is not primarily a question of birth or blood or language; it is the condition of being involved in the Irish situation, and usually of being mauled by it. ~ Conor C. O'Brien [1917-2oo8]

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    [Personally speaking, I do not believe that system can change save for a radical if not revolutionary shift in global consciousness/vibration, one in which the malevolent and destructive do not exist - because they cannot exist.]
    I have no doubt that there will be a global awakening at some point. In other words the waking of the silent majority. Once that happens we could easily watch changes in behaviours occur overnight. We could essentially shut down the war machine in a matter of days. We could either close or force a change on every company on the planet that profits from war. Nations that profit from war could suffer greatly. The only question I have is when is the shift going to occur, before or after WWIII, I am afraid it will probably be the later.
    There is only one way out of war for the [ + ].

    It is the actualizing of the statement "all are sovereign." The [ + ] are sovereign, the [ - ] are sovereign, ALL are sovereign as all are the potential expressions of a core Singularity. Seeing the oneness of all things, ie: what is "fundamental" to the "array" is the way the [ + ] spin more [ + ]. Without first seeing this it is an infinite challenge. The sole conquering, to quote John's choice of concepts, is over once's basic pole, ie: the [ - ] getting the [ + ] to work, act and function toward its own deficit ( and vice versa ). Which the statements above in bold are fair examples of. The primary attention on self, the alignment within oneself, with oneself is what will yield the peace those here say they wish. It is what will grow each and every potential expression of being out beyond where it is now. I do understand, though, there are miles and miles to go to get here.
    Last edited by Casey Claar; 23rd August 2022 at 18:32.
    "Love is what is left when you let go of everything you no longer need." —Raj

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    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by Chester (here)
    If my (informed) speculations are reasonably accurate, we are dealing with a hyperdimensional breakaway civilization (including an opposing "rebel" faction with the same '5D level tech' (ie. time travel)) as perhaps the greatest challenge the masses of humanity face. There's other challenges for sure, but this one may be the most immanent and ominous one of all. In fact, if my (informed) speculation is reasonably accurate, 'humanity, as we think we know it' was a hybrid creation of the primary hyperdimensional civilization which created us as slaves for their usage. If my (informed) speculations are reasonably accurate, they are millions and millions of years ahead in technological development than what we even speculate as possible from even the most imaginative minds within this 'terrestrial humanity' that was their creation.

    This leads me to speculate that if I were "them" I would have focused on the development of a quantum AI computing system which would advise "them" on moves "they" should make whereby real-time input constantly updates the data set and where adjustments in plans are always offered by the system. Because "they" have time travel technology, they also have the capability to go back in time as many times as they wish so as to adjust current trajectories. Anyone can see that a civilization armed with this level of technology combined with a sense of themselves as a species ABOVE the masses of humanity (again, as we know it and again, that they created) would likely have no empathy for us whatsoever.

    Whereas, the hypothesized "rebels" (if they be as I suspect) have taken the side of humanity. Which gives me some confidence that from within the original breakaway, conscience can still arise and doing the right thing can still emerge from those who bring forth what I refer to as the Promethean ethos.

    My only suggestion to anyone is that each put some time into studying this "story" and what the key elements of the story of Prometheus represent. I have never come upon a more inspiring story.
    Anyone interested in considering the attitude that an advanced (technologically) breakaway civilization might hold... consider watching the following.



    Would you "lay down" to this or "fight?"
    Last edited by Chester; 23rd August 2022 at 18:16.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Canada Avalon Member Tyy1907's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

    War is fertile ground for the savage within us to flourish.
    I agree with this statement if we allow it to happen but evolution is inevitable over time and by that, I mean learned experiences that are eventually accepted by all of society. What I am getting at is altruism - the belief or practice of disinterested and selfless concerns for the well-being of others. Once something like this takes hold in civilization it removes much of the savage in mankind or at the very least does not allow it to flourish. Thereby making war obsolete.
    So the question becomes what throws us off to lose that altruistic nature?

    Would a child even conceive of killing another human being? It's not on their radar. Clearly it is forces acting in this world that influence us.
    "Without the human request, nothing will happen."

    "This must never be forgotten, that the human has the power to prevail."

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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    I think it's obvious! You say that strife is necessary and makes creativity thrive, yet you become disheartened when you observe strife on the forum, resulting in difficulty in having a civil debate.
    Strife also can cause people to become uncivil and often unreasonable.
    A forum is all about discussion. If everyone agreed about everything, there really wouldn't be much discussion.

    I think it should be remembered that the work of distinguished researcher Marija Gimbutus ( http://mmstudies.com/scholars/gimbutas/ ) showed significant evidence that matriarchal cultures did not engage in war and that was largely because the goal was to see that everyone's basic needs were met.
    Of course, modern Communism professes to have that same goal at its heart, but in reality nothing has been further from the truth.
    Possibly in part because women still don't have an equal say in how things work in most parts of the world.

    Quote Posted by Chester (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    There seems to be a contradiction in your reasonsing here.
    Quote Posted by Chester (here)
    Strife is the fundamental driver of evolution. Creativity thrives the most during strife. Without it, complacency sets in and eventually entropy and that is the end of "the story." With consciousness as the fundamental substance, "story" makes meaning out of life. Story without strife never lasts long... it becomes too boring, too stagnant.
    Even deeper entrenched are their metaphysics and spiritual beliefs. Just look at the sharp folks on this forum that then go at the throats of others when their spiritual beliefs are challenged or their metaphysical world views are challenged. It is almost impossible to have an intellectual discussion or a civil debate about these matters, again... even on this forum.
    And I find this very disheartening.
    Point it out. I'm open, but you need to point it out.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    United States Avalon Member Casey Claar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by Tyy1907 (here)
    So the question becomes what throws us off to lose that altruistic nature?

    Would a child even conceive of killing another human being? It's not on their radar. Clearly it is forces acting in this world that influence us.
    It is necessary to point to.

    We ourself - ( self ) - is the priori, influence is subsequential. Meaning first there is a self, a "you, me, we, us" then potentially there can be influence. It is important to glean. Saying that influence is coming from somewhere outside ourself, that we are being influenced by another, is the same sentence as "I am a slave." Ie: someone or something has, or is having control over me. It is not a good position to place oneself in. Yet there can be the tendency to do it frequently >> to ourself << with our own thinking.

    The forces are not exactly what we tend to think. They are SPIN, rates and ratios of spin, complete and incomplete geometries. I imagine most here will not want to discuss this, and I am limited in my own ability so I will leave off at simply bringing it to the light of the current page with the notation that no inherent judgement is applied at any time to any portion of what this is, manifests as, or does. We apply our own awareness/observation/understanding to this in ways that are of help, or hindrance, ONLY EVER to our own chosen [ + or - ] spin.

    When this, and the ramifications of this are acknowledged and rightly understood,

    This is the beginning, of the ending of war.


    Casey
    "Love is what is left when you let go of everything you no longer need." —Raj

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    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    I think it's obvious! You say that strife is necessary and makes creativity thrive, yet you become disheartened when you observe strife on the forum, resulting in difficulty in having a civil debate.
    Strife also can cause people to become uncivil and often unreasonable.
    A forum is all about discussion. If everyone agreed about everything, there really wouldn't be much discussion.

    I think it should be remembered that the work of distinguished researcher Marija Gimbutus ( http://mmstudies.com/scholars/gimbutas/ ) showed significant evidence that matriarchal cultures did not engage in war and that was largely because the goal was to see that everyone's basic needs were met.
    Of course, modern Communism professes to have that same goal at its heart, but in reality nothing has been further from the truth.
    Possibly in part because women still don't have an equal say in how things work in most parts of the world.

    Quote Posted by Chester (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    There seems to be a contradiction in your reasonsing here.
    Quote Posted by Chester (here)
    Strife is the fundamental driver of evolution. Creativity thrives the most during strife. Without it, complacency sets in and eventually entropy and that is the end of "the story." With consciousness as the fundamental substance, "story" makes meaning out of life. Story without strife never lasts long... it becomes too boring, too stagnant.
    Even deeper entrenched are their metaphysics and spiritual beliefs. Just look at the sharp folks on this forum that then go at the throats of others when their spiritual beliefs are challenged or their metaphysical world views are challenged. It is almost impossible to have an intellectual discussion or a civil debate about these matters, again... even on this forum.
    And I find this very disheartening.
    Point it out. I'm open, but you need to point it out.
    I was specific about two areas that I have found are all but undiscussable on this forum. World views and spiritual beliefs. That is what, for me, is disheartening. I have been on this forum for a decade and have gotten to know it pretty well. Those who come in with opposing world views and/or spiritual beliefs are treated pretty roughly here... a place where I had hoped intellectual discussion of the matters could occur more respectfully. Understand, I am not alone in this view. Just speak with many who have left and you'll hear quite the same.

    An example of this is when focusing on a single point, one is met with a 1,000 word response that goes all over the place. What does someone do with that? Most just walk away.

    Look at the response so far to this post.

    Not one "thanks" - 16 views initially and none since soon after posting - one hour ago. My conclusion... just too intellectually challenging for most (not all... but most).

    Where are those who can speak to the content discussed in the video of the OP? Would anyone wish to discuss or debate the merits (or otherwise) of Jorjani's Prometheism?

    Is anyone willing to consider an expansion or a complete revision in their currently held world view and established spiritual beliefs?

    Is anyone willing to explore Jorjani's views related to what is actually "eugenics" (gene improvement) beyond their biases by doing the homework to even have such a debate?

    Is anyone willing to consider what may actually be going on "on Earth and surrounding heavenly bodies" instead of simply settling for what they wish to believe? Including what they believe about our history?

    Where are those minds that I used to find all over this forum?
    Last edited by Chester; 24th August 2022 at 14:33.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

    I have to agree with that--I miss a lot of former members too.
    But the forum has gone through a lot of ups and downs, and I'm just grateful it's still here at all, given the way the internet is being censored and manipulated more and more.
    Quote Posted by Chester (here)

    Where are those minds that I used to find all over this forum?
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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