Is War Ever Necessary or Justified?

[Chester]

Posted by onawah (here)
I have to agree with that--I miss a lot of former members too.
But the forum has gone through a lot of ups and downs, and I'm just grateful it's still here at all, given the way the internet is being censored and manipulated more and more.

Posted by Chester (here)

Where are those minds that I used to find all over this forum?

This is to you, personally, Onawah. You once wrote a post which happened to be on June 18, 2019. This post was, for me, so exceptional, that I copied and pasted it to a WORD document where I, from time to time, re-read it. It was also far more than 1,000 words, but like Bill's lengthy post yesterday, explaining himself from his heart (based on his experience with the strangeness that occurred on the Darya Dugan thread) you wrote what is still, for me, the #1 post I ever read on this forum. You can imagine also the respect I have for the one who penned it.

This is that post - https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1297909

I have been in and out of this forum. When I take breaks, it is always with so many of the points you made in this post foremost in my mind.

[Mari]

Posted by rgray222 (here)

Is war so entrenched in the human psyche that it will be impossible to end?

I would love to hear your thoughts.

I don't think war is entrenched in the general human psyche, but it has always been used as a control tool by the ruling elites throughout our history. War is about control of the populace, the carving up of territories and is massively profitable. The war machine has been rolled out to shape chosen elitist narratives...the Ukraine debacle being the latest theatre show.

[rgray222]

Posted by Tyy1907 (here)
So the question becomes what throws us off to lose that altruistic nature?

Would a child even conceive of killing another human being? It's not on their radar. Clearly, it is a force acting in this world that influences us.

Some evidence points to humans being innately cooperative but not necessarily altruistic. It appears to be a trait that is naturally picked up if the environmental (relationship) conditions are just right. Also, there are some studies that indicate that the further mankind evolves the more likely he is to take up altruistic behaviours.

It is such an important issue because it has much to do with how we treat our fellow man. While there have been a lot of studies nobody is willing to give definitive answers about altruism because Darwin suggested that the discovery of altruism would annihilate his theory of natural selection, especially between species. That being said I don't put a lot of stock into Darwin because I no more think we climbed out of a swamp than the moon is made of green cheese. The evolution of mankind can be seen after we arrived. The missing link is still missing.

Sorry did not mean to get so off track but I do believe altruism may be ultimately what saves man from our own eradication.

[onawah]

Thanks Chester, it's very nice to be appreciated!
And I extend that flower in peace if I've ever posted anything that made you feel disheartened.

As you can see, I didn't take my own advice and here I still am, spending so much of my time online and on this forum in particular.
As for the book The Infinite Jest, I did start to read it but couldn't get through it!

But I do still read a lot, so my internet addiction hasn't completely enslaved me, at least...
A synchronicity: Mike and I have been having a great conversation about Heyoka, or, in Tarot, the Fool, an element which has played a large part in both our lives.
I often repeat that old cliche:" if you don't have your health, you don't have anything", but that sure goes for a sense of humor as well in this increasingly crazy world.

Would you please provide the link for Bill's post that you mentioned? I haven't been following that story, but I would be interested to read his post.
Thanks again.

Posted by Chester (here)

Posted by onawah (here)
I have to agree with that--I miss a lot of former members too.
But the forum has gone through a lot of ups and downs, and I'm just grateful it's still here at all, given the way the internet is being censored and manipulated more and more.

Posted by Chester (here)

Where are those minds that I used to find all over this forum?

This is to you, personally, Onawah. You once wrote a post which happened to be on June 18, 2019. This post was, for me, so exceptional, that I copied and pasted it to a WORD document where I, from time to time, re-read it. It was also far more than 1,000 words, but like Bill's lengthy post yesterday, explaining himself from his heart (based on his experience with the strangeness that occurred on the Darya Dugan thread) you wrote what is still, for me, the #1 post I ever read on this forum. You can imagine also the respect I have for the one who penned it.

This is that post - https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1297909

I have been in and out of this forum. When I take breaks, it is always with so many of the points you made in this post foremost in my mind.

[Chester]

Posted by onawah (here)
Would you please provide the link for Bill's post that you mentioned? I haven't been following that story, but I would be interested to read his post.
Thanks again.

This one... https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1513813

[Delight]

Posted by Chester (here)
I have been on this forum for a decade and have gotten to know it pretty well. Those who come in with opposing world views and/or spiritual beliefs are treated pretty roughly here... a place where I had hoped intellectual discussion of the matters could occur more respectfully. Understand, I am not alone in this view. Just speak with many who have left and you'll hear quite the same.

I don't have the same perception as you on this at all. I am aware of some who "left" who NEVER "LEFT" as they cannot stop thinking about PA, writing about it and hating it. SAD.

We are all a lone POV attempting to share it IMO. Considering the various lives , languages and history of people, I think this forum is very collegial.

More and more I feel that my reality is not at all in the same book as many others. However, I am experiencing that I am safe, I am respected, I am MAYBE invisible but in every way I am able to stand solidly on my own inner knowing... what anyone else thinks/believes will not sway me but WILL entertain.

[onawah]

PS It may also be that some of the departed members that I miss (who I don't think number among those who became inimical to the forum) actually overcame their own internet addiction and are pursuing other interests....just a thought.

[Casey Claar]

Posted by Chester (here)

I was specific about two areas that I have found are all but undiscussable on this forum. World views and spiritual beliefs. That is what, for me, is disheartening. I have been on this forum for a decade and have gotten to know it pretty well. Those who come in with opposing world views and/or spiritual beliefs are treated pretty roughly here... a place where I had hoped intellectual discussion of the matters could occur more respectfully. Understand, I am not alone in this view. Just speak with many who have left and you'll hear quite the same.

An example of this is when focusing on a single point, one is met with a 1,000 word response that goes all over the place. What does someone do with that? Most just walk away.

Look at the response so far to this post?

Not one "thanks" - 16 views initially and none since soon after posting - one hour ago. My conclusion... just too intellectually challenging for most (not all... but most).

Where are those who can speak to the content discussed in the video of the OP? Would anyone wish to discuss or debate the merits (or otherwise) of Jorjani's Prometheism?

Is anyone willing to consider an expansion or a complete revision in their currently held world view and established spiritual beliefs?

Is anyone willing to explore Jorjani's views related to what is actually "eugenics" (gene improvement) beyond their biases by doing the homework to even have such a debate?

Is anyone willing to consider what may actually be going on "on Earth and surrounding heavenly bodies" instead of simply settling for what they wish to believe? Including what they believe about our history?

Where are those minds that I used to find all over this forum?

Chester,

I don't know about others, but if all is posted is a video with a few words, I generally pass by. Unless, that is, the person who posted the video is also who created it. For the most I am interested what those who are here are experiencing themselves, their own insights, observations, feelings, experiences. What it is they are learning. Politics and religion do not interest me. YOU do. - ( consciousness does, <-- where you are or may be spiritually ). Btw, just to say, of all those I have read from here on this forum, you stand out in the ability to be vulnerable, to let your genuine energy go out and be felt. I appreciate this. It is one of a few reasons I have felt hope here. This is just to say, you are necessary---needed. Find hope in that you give it to others. The rest will fill itself in.


Casey

[East Sun]

Yes, to defend your country against aggressors. That is the
duty of anyone who is capable of doing the right thing.

Fighting with an army that invades another country is not
a noble endeavor. Millions have done so having no choice
in the matter, others because they were told that they belonged
to a number one country that had a right to rule. Another
example of brainwashing of the gullible poor duped masses.

[Tyy1907]

Posted by rgray222 (here)

Posted by Tyy1907 (here)
So the question becomes what throws us off to lose that altruistic nature?

Would a child even conceive of killing another human being? It's not on their radar. Clearly, it is a force acting in this world that influences us.

Some evidence points to humans being innately cooperative but not necessarily altruistic. It appears to be a trait that is naturally picked up if the environmental (relationship) conditions are just right. Also, there are some studies that indicate that the further mankind evolves the more likely he is to take up altruistic behaviours.

It is such an important issue because it has much to do with how we treat our fellow man. While there have been a lot of studies nobody is willing to give definitive answers about altruism because Darwin suggested that the discovery of altruism would annihilate his theory of natural selection, especially between species. That being said I don't put a lot of stock into Darwin because I no more think we climbed out of a swamp that the moon is made of green cheese. The evolution of mankind can be seen after we arrived. The missing link is still missing.

Sorry did not mean to get so off track but I do believe altruism may be ultimately what saves man from our own eradication.

I think you're onto something here. Altruism - the selfless concern for others.

How can this concern for others be utilized practically? In the context of this thread. Who is behind the antagonizing, the dirty tricks being used to induce the next war. If they succeed at getting a full blown war going the fate of humanity could be on their heads. Who could be capable of such monumental depravity?

[Johnnycomelately]

“Is war ever necessary or justified?” Apparently yes, because it exists.

War is not qualitatively different than anybody’s sh*ty actions resulting from selfishness. It is a symptom, a manifestation, of exactly that. Try to not throw the first stone, is all we can do.

[Casey Claar]

Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
“Is war ever necessary or justified?” Apparently yes, because it exists.

War is not qualitatively different than anybody’s sh*ty actions resulting from selfishness. It is a symptom, a manifestation, of exactly that. Try to not throw the first stone, is all we can do.

It is quite literally being out of alignment with ourself. ( yes )

Which is why I keep pointing to what I do.

[TargeT]

Posted by Casey Claar (here)

Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
“Is war ever necessary or justified?” Apparently yes, because it exists.

War is not qualitatively different than anybody’s sh*ty actions resulting from selfishness. It is a symptom, a manifestation, of exactly that. Try to not throw the first stone, is all we can do.

It is quite literally being out of alignment with ourself. ( yes )

Which is why I keep pointing to what I do.

There are many facets to our various experiences.

and based on (planned IMO) the nature of our different experiences, often our perspective and events are most influential; while not disregarding other's (often drastically) different experiences we do not seem to give them full weight when compared to our own.

"War" as a term is interesting and I bet that most of us have vastly different definitions of that term. My personal take is that "war" is not bound by scale, there are multiple documented "family feuds" that could easily be sliced out of some larger conflict (all conflict really comes down to the base level of the parties that agree to be there, even if it's just two people).

If someone is violent with people I care about or myself, why would I not "go to war" with them; who can say how far they will go and why should I gamble that they won't kill or maim my loved ones?

So if we are talking about war based on scale, I guess I think the discussion is a bit lost, everything starts locally; is self defense not "war"?

[Chester]

Posted by Casey Claar (here)

Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
“Is war ever necessary or justified?” Apparently yes, because it exists.

War is not qualitatively different than anybody’s sh*ty actions resulting from selfishness. It is a symptom, a manifestation, of exactly that. Try to not throw the first stone, is all we can do.

It is quite literally being out of alignment with ourself. ( yes )

Which is why I keep pointing to what I do.

But imagine a world where all beings were "perfectly aligned" (and what would that be, anyways?)... wouldn't that become incredibly stagnant?

[Casey Claar]

Posted by Chester (here)

Posted by Casey Claar (here)

Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)
“Is war ever necessary or justified?” Apparently yes, because it exists.

War is not qualitatively different than anybody’s sh*ty actions resulting from selfishness. It is a symptom, a manifestation, of exactly that. Try to not throw the first stone, is all we can do.

It is quite literally being out of alignment with ourself. ( yes )

Which is why I keep pointing to what I do.

But imagine a world where all beings were "perfectly aligned" (and what would that be, anyways?)... wouldn't that become incredibly stagnant?

Relative to here [ 3D ], yes I would say so. 3D it would seem is where most the heavy lifting gets done. ( pun intended, lol ).

But we've quite the potential distance to go to get to anything as still as all that.

I think the idea in our own present density is simply to CHOOSE the aim.

To be singular within ourself and not acting at our own odds.

Perfection is not something that occurs squarely here.

Plenty of room for blunder. And thereby ample compassion for other stumblers in the dark, eh?

What would happen if more hearts opened in genuine compassion?

Would war "lessen"?

[Casey Claar]

I read Chester's sentence, "but imagine a world where all beings were "perfectly aligned" ( within themself )". To keep it on track.

Choice and change is all of the self. Wholeheartedly agreed.

I would add also, that when this is known, war begins to be a thing of the past.

If only more people would see it. And at least endeavor to work toward it.

[Chester]

Posted by Casey Claar (here)

Posted by Chester (here)

I was specific about two areas that I have found are all but undiscussable on this forum. World views and spiritual beliefs. That is what, for me, is disheartening. I have been on this forum for a decade and have gotten to know it pretty well. Those who come in with opposing world views and/or spiritual beliefs are treated pretty roughly here... a place where I had hoped intellectual discussion of the matters could occur more respectfully. Understand, I am not alone in this view. Just speak with many who have left and you'll hear quite the same.

An example of this is when focusing on a single point, one is met with a 1,000 word response that goes all over the place. What does someone do with that? Most just walk away.

Look at the response so far to this post?

Not one "thanks" - 16 views initially and none since soon after posting - one hour ago. My conclusion... just too intellectually challenging for most (not all... but most).

Where are those who can speak to the content discussed in the video of the OP? Would anyone wish to discuss or debate the merits (or otherwise) of Jorjani's Prometheism?

Is anyone willing to consider an expansion or a complete revision in their currently held world view and established spiritual beliefs?

Is anyone willing to explore Jorjani's views related to what is actually "eugenics" (gene improvement) beyond their biases by doing the homework to even have such a debate?

Is anyone willing to consider what may actually be going on "on Earth and surrounding heavenly bodies" instead of simply settling for what they wish to believe? Including what they believe about our history?

Where are those minds that I used to find all over this forum?

Chester,

I don't know about others, but if all is posted is a video with a few words, I generally pass by. Unless, that is, the person who posted the video is also who created it. For the most I am interested what those who are here are experiencing themselves, their own insights, observations, feelings, experiences. What it is they are learning. Politics and religion do not interest me. YOU do. - ( consciousness does, <-- where you are or may be spiritually ). Btw, just to say, of all those I have read from here on this forum, you stand out in the ability to be vulnerable, to let your genuine energy go out and be felt. I appreciate this. It is one of a few reasons I have felt hope here. This is just to say, you are necessary---needed. Find hope in that you give it to others. The rest will fill itself in.


Casey

The post I featured was an error, I had meant to link to the one above it (which I will correct). Context is provided there for both videos.

[rgray222]

Julian Assange saying that nearly every war for the past 50 years has been the result of media lies.

[Casey Claar]

So long as that finger is directed outward, we are STILL not getting it. There is but one destiny to positioning ourselves so. ( the wheel )

[rgray222]

Just a one minute video but makes a lot of sense.