Heartbreak

[onawah]

There are so many walking wounded about these days, which isn't surprising given how very screwed up the world is now.
Wearing rose-colored glasses doesn't help us to deal with that reality, and especially when it comes to romance which is all too often where we can make a wrong turn.
A lot of us on the forum are empaths (at least according to one poll) and that makes us especially vulnerable to narcissists.
Unless you have frequented the thread about narcissism, you may not have an accurate picture of what that really is.

Narcissists are extremely wounded people who have learned how to put a convincing mask on their wounds and fake being normal, but they are far from that.
They can't really help themselves for the most part as they are in the grip of a very destructive mental disorder.
Anyone who engages with them without realizing that is in for a painful ride, though it may take some time before they realize it.
The warning signals are only obvious if you are really familiar with the patterns and how they manifest.
(Even then it can be tricky!! Narcissism comes in a lot of disguises...)

On another, but related topic, we have all heard the old cliche about how we tend to marry the person who most resembles our parent, even if that parent was abusive.
That is often the case with daughters of abusive dads and sons of abusive women, both of whom can become addicted to abusive partners.
Even once they understand the pattern, it is still a long road to recovery, both for the abused and for whoever they become involved with along that road.

I think what we see when we become attracted to such a person is the essence of what that person was like before they became wounded.
Even after we see the wounds, being empathic, we want to heal and rescue them.
But what often happens is we become their energy supply and scapegoats, similar to the enablers of alcoholics.
And then we discover that we need to work on recovery ourselves...

[XelNaga]

Great posts guys, you are all amazing as always.

I have to read your posts again before replying.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Mike (here)
So you do that...and then you wait. How long? Weeks, months, maybe years even. But what you'll find is this: even though the pain is all-consuming now, it will eventually wane. It seems impossible now, but it will happen.

So true. Eventually it does diminish, but it can take a while. For me it was a long while. You see, I continued to see Amy each and every day at work for the next year. I mentioned the 'year of hell'. This was it. The worst part? I was at this point friend-zoned. Used up goods. Out of the picture. My colleagues however were not. They were fair game to Amy who I learned was, how shall I say, irrepressibly promiscuous. This served not only to cheapen what we had when we were together (it was not as special to her as it was to me), but I had to stand by and witness her with other guys. She had at least two flings with my colleagues that I know of. I suspect there were more. That place was a meat-market. Seriously!

Because when Amy came along I had been with this another girl, one that was really into me, and she was beautiful - better looking in fact than Amy. But I wasn't into her. At all.

Looks aren't everything, nor even personality - this other girl was as sweet as sugared candy. Regretfully (and I do sort of regret it, I could have made a future with her), I called it off. I wrote something about that here. I simply had no choice. I only had eyes for Amy. Amy did something to me I could not explain. She squeezed my heart and scrambled my mind. No other girl could hold a candle to her. To this day I don't really know what it was. My only theory was some deep, inner spiritual connection. Perhaps past-life.

Anyway, that year of hell went on to have several sequels. For the year she worked with us Amy became part of our social circle. When she left she continued to be friends with just about all of us. When we (as colleagues) hung out, there she was, very often with a guy (colleague or otherwise). I wouldn't call her a sl*t (although some girls might). It wasn't like that. The more appropriate epithet is 'social butterfly', which I used earlier. She flitted from one guy to the next, never wanting to settle down. It was just the way she was. I remember during this period having a conversation with her Dad, a really nice guy. He quietly told me how he wished his daughter had stayed with me as I was by far the best of the bunch (of the string of guys she went out with). I took it as the compliment it was meant as, but inside I was saying 'Ya think?'. Most of the guys she chose were in it only 'for a piece of tail'. I knew it, she knew it, and her dad knew it. Powerless, I was forced to sit back and watch her play the field with this guy, and that guy, with next to no care in the world.

[Mike]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
So you do that...and then you wait. How long? Weeks, months, maybe years even. But what you'll find is this: even though the pain is all-consuming now, it will eventually wane. It seems impossible now, but it will happen.

So true. Eventually it does diminish, but it can take a while. For me it was a long while. You see, I continued to see Amy each and every day at work for the next year. I mentioned the 'year of hell'. This was it. The worst part? I was at this point friend-zoned. Used up goods. Out of the picture. My colleagues however were not. They were fair game to Amy who I learned was, how shall I say, irrepressibly promiscuous. This served not only to cheapen what we had when we were together (it was not as special to her as it was to me), but I had to stand by and witness her with other guys. She had at least two flings with my colleagues that I know of. I suspect there were more. That place was a meat-market. Seriously!

Because when Amy came along I had been with this another girl, one that was really into me, and she was beautiful - better looking in fact than Amy. But I wasn't into her. At all.

Looks aren't everything, nor even personality - this other girl was as sweet as sugared candy. Regretfully (and I do sort of regret it, I could have made a future with her), I called it off. I wrote something about that here. I simply had no choice. I only had eyes for Amy. Amy did something to me I could not explain. She squeezed my heart and scrambled my mind. No other girl could hold a candle to her. To this day I don't really know what it was. My only theory was some deep, inner spiritual connection. Perhaps past-life.

Anyway, that year of hell went on to have several sequels. For the year she worked with us Amy became part of our social circle. When she left she continued to be friends with just about all of us. When we (as colleagues) hung out, there she was, very often with a guy (colleague or otherwise). I wouldn't call her a sl*t (although some girls might). It wasn't like that. The more appropriate epithet is 'social butterfly', which I used earlier. She flitted from one guy to the next, never wanting to settle down. It was just the way she was. I remember during this period having a conversation with her Dad, a really nice guy. He quietly told me how he wished his daughter had stayed with me as I was by far the best of the bunch (of the string of guys she went out with). I took it as the compliment it was meant as, but inside I was saying 'Ya think?'. Most of the guys she chose were in it only 'for a piece of tail'. I knew it, she knew it, and her dad knew it. Powerless, I was forced to sit back and watch her play the field with this guy, and that guy, with next to no care in the world.

Ugh, sorry Mark. That's murder! I've been thru something kinda the same.

I was just discussing something similar with a friend of mine. There's this weird phenomenon that happens after you have that first heartbreak(which may just be necessary in some way for growth, but that's a different topic) where you know conceptually how painful it was, but being so long ago you can't help but not properly appreciate how emotionally destructive it is when it happens to a friend.

What I mean is this:
For better or worse, I keep my pain to myself. I don't talk about it with friends. Maybe a little in the beginning, but that's about it.

My friends are the exact opposite. They'll moan and groan and spill their heart all day long if you'll indulge them. For weeks. Months even. Or longer.

I'm fully aware of the pain they're in, and I sympathize, but there's some voice in my head that's saying, "Come on, it's been 3 days! Pull yourself together already!"

In other words, I have no patience for their whining. Rightly or wrongly, my thinking is this: I didn't trouble you when I was grieving my breakup for an entire bloody year, so please stop troubling me."

I'll give someone in pain the emotionally uplifting speech one time, and that's it. It's so exhausting. In reality you can't really lift anyone out of an emotional morass; they have to lift themselves. They don't know it initially, so they're looking for endless distractions, including calling their friends - in my case - up to a dozen times a day, and sometimes at ungodly hours.

They don't yet know what's ahead of them. And having had the broken heart experience, you do. You understand it's largely a solo battle, something one has to endure mostly on one's own. And on the deepest level, continuing to indulge them in conversation about the girl is only hindering the inevitable journey they must go on.

But they either don't get it or are in denial about it; meanwhile the pain is so great that they're thrashing around and willing to drown everyone as they go down. They become energy vampires, sucking every last bit of energy you have.

I have a 2 week limit. I'll patiently listen to a friend complain about the breakup endlessly during that period of time. After that, one is obliged - for their health and the the health of everyone around them - to shut the f#ck up about it and just get on with things. That's my feeling anyway.

It's not because I'm cold-hearted, it's because I understand the futility of words in those situations. And I understand the value of energy, and refuse to waste it so foolishly. But I'll listen if you wanna talk. And after my 2 week limit I'm happy to take the friend out, buy him beers, or whatever it takes to help him get thru the night. Go to the gym, shoot hoops, you name it. I don't disappear and abandon people in emotional need, but I refuse to endlessly chat about the breakup. Just can't do it. Does any of that make sense?

[Denise/Dizi]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
XelNaga

you started off you post saying, " So, a silly topic I know." And I am so happy to see how much this post mattered to people on this forum. This forum has range in such far reaching directions and dimensions.
It is good to see your recognition of things said here, although no cure for your heartache, you know there are friends who have been there and have love and care for you.
On a personal level, the best help for my aching soul has been the NDE,s I have studied. The Jeff Mara podcast is excellent in all things human and beyond that I listen to most every night.
There are two kinds of people i now identify: those who view this life as the entire thing, where we need to be the winners, amass the signs of success etc and fear our impending and inevitable death, and those who see this life as a journey chosen by them to experience this duality before we return home. I was the first, I am now the latter.
I hope I didn't take this topic off course . Good luck to you.

Denise, maybe I should start a Dougs love life page! lol

HAHAHA I would read it and even contribute lol.

[XelNaga]

Posted by Vangelo (here)
Wow! There is extraordinary truth, wisdom, empathy, and compassion in every one of these replies. I am sure the posts that follow will be just as insightful. Thank you XelNaga for giving us this opportunity.

We are a remarkable tribe.

Remarkable, indeed. Communities like our dear Avalon are rare.

[XelNaga]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
XelNaga

you started off you post saying, " So, a silly topic I know." And I am so happy to see how much this post mattered to people on this forum. This forum has range in such far reaching directions and dimensions.
It is good to see your recognition of things said here, although no cure for your heartache, you know there are friends who have been there and have love and care for you.
On a personal level, the best help for my aching soul has been the NDE,s I have studied. The Jeff Mara podcast is excellent in all things human and beyond that I listen to most every night.
There are two kinds of people i now identify: those who view this life as the entire thing, where we need to be the winners, amass the signs of success etc and fear our impending and inevitable death, and those who see this life as a journey chosen by them to experience this duality before we return home. I was the first, I am now the latter.
I hope I didn't take this topic off course . Good luck to you.

Denise, maybe I should start a Dougs love life page! lol

Hello Doug,

I'm also that second type of person. I look at life as a play, or a game, and try not to stress too much about anything.

I guess that is why I'm so flabbergasted by what I have allowed to happen to myself. Ridiculous, haha..

[XelNaga]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

Posted by XelNaga (here)
How do you deal with heartbreak?

It sounds trite to say 'I know you how you feel' losing this girl, but truly, I do know you how you feel because an almost identical thing happened to me.

I felt compelled to answer in depth, maybe because I need to get this off my own chest. I recently experienced a different type of heartbreak, but it brought some other stuff to the surface, like what it means to lose, to be bereft of something you hold, or held, most specially dear, and what it means to survive the aftermath. I've never told this story before, but here it is.

It was 18 years ago now. This girl - and I'll call her Amy - was a new employee at the place I was working at the time, and the moment I saw her, the moment I looked into her eyes, I went to some other place. It was an incredibly powerful experience. I mean life altering. I've never felt it or known it before with anyone. It really wasn't about the face or the body or any of that (although those were all very nice too!), it was the eyes that did for me. The only word I have for it is "wow".

However, she was in a relationship (of course she was), but I was singularly determined like I had never been before (or since) to win her.

I played it carefully from day to day. I didn't go after her, I didn't cling to her or bother her, I barely even spoke to her. That was hard to do, it was a busy work environment and people were around all the time. Amy was what I would call a social butterfly, extremely popular with everyone, especially with the guys - competition was fierce. She was a decade younger than me, so I knew I stood little chance, probably no chance. She was just out of my league. But something told me this was different. I was different. I don't know how, or why, I just was. Whenever I was in her presence I was different. I felt...light. Buoyantly light. I'd never experienced that sensation before. It really was something else.

I proceeded carefully, keeping my eyes and ears open. I soon came to discover that her boyfriend was a total douchebag, borderline criminal too. Why oh why do nice girls like this always chose ***holes? And he hit her, frequently! Once, he even came into the workplace during a nightshift to 'check on her' (translation: send a message to her co-workers that she was taken). He was a big, nasty bastard, and I certainly couldn't take him on. I continued to stay watchful and keep my head down.

At this time, however, she was just some girl I fancied, and a lot. That was all though. Her smile, her laugh, those unbelievable green eyes, like two bright emeralds - I was spellbound, but not in love. That never actually occurred to me because I didn't know what that was, even though at the time I was in my thirties. I'd always been a loner - maybe a bit like you, and had little romantic experience.

Everything changed one afternoon on the golf course with a work buddy. While lining up a shot on the fairway he mentioned that that evening he was going into town for a few beers with two or three people from work - one of them was Amy. What? I learned he had gotten hold of her number and invited her. I didn't have her number, so why did he have her number? Did I mention competition was fierce? If I wanted to acquaint myself more closely with her I had to up my game, get in on the action, so to speak - and this was my chance. So I threw caution to the wind and 'invited' myself to this little get together. I offered to be designated driver. That was my 'in'. No more sitting idly in the background 'waiting for an opportunity'. I had to make that opportunity. For the first time in my life I was going on the front foot with a girl.

The arrangements were made. I would pick up my friend (the golf buddy) at 7.30pm and drive to the nightclub. I didn't yet know Amy had no idea that I was going to be there. I'd never seen her out of work before. What would she look like? What would she be wearing? How would she be, you know, away from work? I'd never seen her in a casual environment, or in anything but her dull work uniform (we worked at an airport). I remember that drive. I rehearsed and rehearsed what I was going to say and how I was going to act. The weirdest feeling was the butterflies. No girl, before or since, has given me butterflies just thinking about her. One thing I did not consider, at the time, was whether her boyfriend would be there. It never even entered my mind. No idea why. I guess I was existing on pure adrenaline - no time for rational thoughts. I had tunnel vision and my only focus was her.

[I was going to make this 'a long story short' conclusion, but I felt like I wanted to, or needed to, tell it all. I've never put this to words before. It's sort of therapeutic. Anyway, I digress...]

I remember that night like it was yesterday. It's engraved in my memory like ultra powerful memories are. When I close my eyes I'm right back there. The lead up, and immediately afterwards are a bit vague, like that special Christmas Day as a kid that you recall so fondly - but you don't remember Christmas Eve at all, or the day after, only Christmas Day. What was about to take place was like all my Christmas Days condensed into one moment.

We arrived a few minutes late at the club. I assumed everyone else was already inside. The club was located on the second floor. I have a crystal clear recollection climbing those stairs, their deep red carpet, my buddy following, and the music gradually getting louder and louder. I still remember the song that was playing - some dance number that I'd never cared for or paid any attention to until that moment. Whenever I hear it on the radio today I'm instantly back on those stairs. By now the butterflies had flapped up a storm in my stomach; I was probably red-faced and sweating, too - purely because she was inside, somewhere, and I was moments away from seeing her.

Where would she be? It suddenly occurred to me she wouldn't be alone. How did I expect to chat her up? Even if that opportunity did present itself, what the hell was I going to say?! I'm a total wuss when it comes to this stuff. Even if I managed to get anything out it was bound to sound stupid or cliched... A sort of panic seized me. I had blundered into this strange situation with little thought or planning. What was I doing? She'd have her boyfriend with her anyway, so I was kidding myself! All I was going to find here was disappointment. More than likely I was going to make myself look, or at least feel, like a complete twat. I'd probably get off one "hello, nice to see you," have a beer and that will be that. For about 15 seconds, as these thoughts flitted through my mind, I was filled with a sense of melancholy. But then something happened.

I reached the top of the stairs, and was confronted with a large, lively crowd of 'boozy revellers'. I was never much of a reveller or a boozer. I had long retired from the saturday night party scene. That was years behind me, so I felt a little out of place. I was the wrong side of 30, and all these other people were not (including Amy). But it was too late to turn back now!

The coloured lights were flashing, the music blaring, and people milling around everywhere...then everything slowed down. Time itself literally slowed down, at least my perception of it. Like the Red Sea a passage opened up between the revellers. Dead ahead about twenty feet away I saw our group. And there was Amy.

She turned around and saw me. She didn't see my golf buddy at all, she saw me. And she flew right up to me, an unbelievable smile on her face. It was one of delight and huge surprise. "Look at you in your leather jacket," she said grabbing at the leather and touching it - she'd never seen me away from work either. "I didn't know you were coming tonight!" She looked like a million dollars. And damn, that smile... and those eyes. As they looked up at me, and I looked down into them, that was it. That was the moment I knew I was in love.

The night was a blur after that. All I remember was that she seemed to be as pleased to be in my company as I was in hers. Her boyfriend never appeared.

My natural shyness dissolved over night, and the next day I called her. That single phone conversation lasted four hours. I'd never had a four hour phone conversation before, and haven't had one since. I've no idea what we talked about.

A short while after, she split from her abusive boyfriend. I don't feel guilty for playing a part in that. It tore me up how he treated her. It was hard for her to break from that situation. I totally understood that. He was insanely possessive and very jealous. I don't mind saying he scared me to death actually. Fortunately nothing bad happened, and I didn't have to wait long until we went on our first date, and to the very same club as before - this time just me and her. No exaggeration, that was a magical night - one, I might add, that she offered to end with 'a little bit more magic' back at her place, if you get my meaning. I'm a bit old fashioned, so declined. I wasn't in any rush. Besides, lust was not a factor - even though she was plenty gorgeous it just wasn't. For the first time in my life I'd thought I'd found my soul mate.

And boy, because I was dating Amy I'd like to say I got some jealous looks (and comments) from my colleagues. So I will: I got some seriously jealous looks and comments from my workmates. That made me feel wonderful. Just for change I was the guy that other guys envied!

The rest of that summer was amazing. No other period in my life comes close. If I died today and God asked me, "so what did you like best?" I'd answer immediately, "Amy and the summer of 2004."

Of course it didn't last. I will have to wrap this up, this post is already way too long.

She cheated with that abusive knuckle-dragging asshat that was her ex, and ended up going back to him. I've no idea why. His persuasion, her susceptibility to it - I don't know. I reached the conclusion she'd rather be treated like dirt, than a diamond. I've seen it many times actually, and I do not understand it. I don't mind saying, I have absolutely no clue whatsoever what makes women tick. Their minds are Gordion Knots to me. I cannot figure them out. I would have given Amy every thing I had, but she turned it all down for an ***hole. I was thrown on the trash - just like you, my friend. I have since made that place my home. I've been there ever since.

I had to work alongside her after that for nearly a year until she moved on to a different job. Suffice to say that was a year of hell. Not tumultuous, as in we fought all the time. We didn't fight at all. It was extremely amicable, because I insisted on it. She was all, "I'm sorry, but I did have a lot of fun," and I was like, "sure, never mind..." I bit down on my devastation and pretended everything was fine - pretended that it was, as she put it, 'just a fling'.

For me it wasn't a fling. It was the love of my life. Emotionally, I was ruined.

Heartbreak and how to deal with it? I don't know. I didn't deal with it for a long time. I sulked, badly, for six months at least. Even now, rarely a day goes by when I don't think about her. And I stay in touch, actually. Every single year I text her on her birthday and at Christmas, and sometimes she texts back. After me she had it hard. Lots of relationship heartaches of her own. In fact once or twice she reached out to me and made advances to the tune of maybe trying again. Part of me yearned for it, another, and the wiser part, said no, don't do it, you'd only be setting yourself for yet more pain. So I did not rise to it. I was second prize after all. I didn't want to be second prize, because they're not that valuable and they usually end up in the trash - again. I didn't want to experience the same heartache twice. Once was more than enough.

Dear Mark, my brother in pain

I'm glad that you got the chance to get this of your chest. Our stories are truly similar. Especially how we both were completely blown away just by those gorgeous eyes. There was something more behind those eyes. I felt like some magic is happening, like I'm under some love spell or some **** like that
As far as physical looks are concerned, this girl looks just how I like it. But the thing is that I have not noticed that at all, just the eyes, and the personality. It took me 2, or 3 days to notice all those physical attributes, it's ridiculous.

And as someone else have said, you really have a gift for writing. Reading your post was amazing (except of course for the pain that the whole experience brought to you) and I could imagine everything in my mind as I was reading it. You should start writing novels my friend, those would be bestsellers for sure.

I didn't want my original post to be too long, so I skipped a bunch of details. But I have to add a couple of them now.

My friend who I mentioned and I were planning a holiday. Both of us, of course, are pure bloods, so I told him that we can only go on a holiday in Serbia, as to avoid potential PCR tests. So for a couple of days, I was looking online for places where we could go. We planned a little 7 day road-trip, but without any definite destinations, so our whole trip was random. We decided on our first destination only when we packed our bags and started the car. Than the circumstances, without any plans, brought us to the mountain where I met this girl, even though that place was nowhere at the list of our potential destinations.

Another strange coincidence was with her shifts. She works as a head waitress at the hotel/restaurant that we were staying at, and she only works first shift. But some things happened with her colleagues and she worked second shift, only those days while we were there. This is more important than it sounds, because we wouldn't spend any time together if she was working first shift. We get up in the morning, have coffee and breakfast and we're gone the entire day, only come back for dinner. So her being second shift was what gave us time to get to know each other, otherwise it wouldn't happen. Than when the time came for me to ask her out on a date, she worked first shift tomorrow so we had a chance to spend that wonderful day together. Like it was all according to plan.

So, it's our last day at that place, the day after our first date. She worked first shift, and was constantly with me or around my table, we couldn't get our eyes from one another. It was magical as the day before. I was waiting for her to finish work, so we could spend some more time together before my friend and I had to go home. We (my friend and I) went for a little walk around the premises, and we got to the crossroad. He said let's go right and as we started walking, I sad no, let us go on the left path. I'm in good relationship with the universe and often times receive "messages". So as we started walking along that path, I looked up at the sky and said: come on Universe, help a brother out, give me some sign on what should I do (I asked that because I was a little bit concerned with how much I went crazy about this girl in a such a ridiculously short amount of time, that was totally unusual for me. And also because we live some 220km away from each other, which is financially problematic in Serbia). And as soon as I asked that, I took couple of steps forward and looked at the ground, and there it was, the sign. It was a piece of duct tape, branded with some company name, a long company name. But that little piece of torn duct tape that was standing in front of me only had six letters, which said NEVENA (that is her damn name, lol). It that wasn't a sing, I don't know what is

So all those circumstances seemed to point out that "it was meant to be", as some would say. And I guess it was meant to be, just not the way I wanted it, but the way I needed it. It turned my world upside down, and to be honest, I'm glad it happened. I'm still little disappointed and still a little bit sad, but I have become a little different, and a little better being than I was before that holiday.

[XelNaga]

Posted by Hym (here)

Posted by XelNaga (here)
Hello dear Friends,

When we went on a date, it was like we have known each other our whole lives. We spent some 9-10 hours together that day, and there was not a second of silence. That was one of the best days of my life.

Anyway, to cut the long story short, she threw all of that away, changed her behaviour towards me completely, and got back with her ex (guy cheated on her like crazy, but she still loves him). I like to say that she threw me away like a trash

", and there was not a second of silence." That says it all for me.

Walking in the great colors we soak up together, of being able to hear a heartbeat, ours and then the real sounds of those close to us....these experiences cannot be found in speech.

How many of us are so good at talking that we either don't know the value of listening and silence, or we are caught in this quick back and forth exchange that truly shares very little about the worth we could have by being together. Talking is often the great interference, the noise that is the biggest deception, almost a guarantee of loss.

Listening, now therein live the answers, as even listening to the words we share with others, along with our own voices.. is a good start. Yes, we can listen while talking, until we don't need to talk anymore.


How many can recall the rhythm of all the different heartbeats, the breaths, the smells, the tastes....Mmmmm, the tastes.....the up close and very personal in our lives? I know it's called silence, but in these bodies it carries the lasting loves ....

Listening in silence together is the proof of worth, of longevity, of future explorations....together. Silence is a deeper acceptance of others and ourselves. It is a strength we should understand, because it is much harder to hide intention and lack of character, even honesty, when listening.

She has likely done this to men before.
It's not that you both had so much in common, or that you had such an intense exchange, initially. She was soaking you up with none to little care or honest exchange for you. In this case your intentions were very different, and it should by now at least be clear for you to see that women too, just as with the stereotype and impersonality of some men, and often more intensely, can be the most calculating and inhumane towards those they hunt to use, not to grow with, and from.

I've found so many men turn to a callous disregard for their own growth, in a "migtow/mgtow/men going their own way" way, that removes the possibility of mutual loving and living with women, when they find out how so many women have a 2nd, a 3rd, even a 4th option for engagement with men. That runs deeper, even in a survival mode, than many men acknowledge....all judgements aside. Many reasons, but no excuses worthy enough to note.

It's the nature of the beasts that don't have the power of spirit to be honest with others, and who accept thru mimicking examples or in acceptance of the emotional fatality of their own worth from the unacknowledged abuse they survived, that the only self empowerment they can find is in controlling others. Love is not control, not ever.

I talk of this as understanding the motivations for such hurtful callousness and then recognizing it as it shows itself, before you are hurt, is important. No need to get bummed by it. Just move on and believe you deserve better, in strengthening yourself and in finding that compatibility with another.

Some call the need for that intimacy a weakness. That makes me laugh, because it is just such a thing that lives at the core of many of these human experiences and gives value to living.

Your experience tells me that there is a depth of emotion, of spirit in you that has not been lived up to. Consider it's possible positive effects on your life and your life's meaning, it's real worth, as you clearly engage in all of the other activities and even passions that put connection and this thing called Love closer to your Heart, the record of really living.

Your expression of vulnerability here and seeking answers is a very powerful strength of character.

Thank you for a very powerful and valuable post Hym.

I think you are completely right, about both her and me. Now, when I have cooled my head down a little bit, in retrospective, I'm pretty sure she was not who she presented herself to be. And I have also learned that I'm not exactly who I have thought that I am.

So, it actually was an awesome experience and a valuable lesson. Hard lessons are the ones we learn the most from, in every aspect of our lives.

[XelNaga]

Posted by Isserley (here)
Great thread XelNaga brate!

Regarding the topic, I don't have any smart advice, except that time heals all wounds. We are here for the experience, both good and bad, and we have to accept it that way. Don't let this event discourage you, stay open to true love, it will appear when you least expect it.
The same thing happened to me but with a happy ending (at least for now haha ) I can't understand women who "trick" a man into falling in love like that and then reject him. Is it an ego game or what, I really don't know, but it's cruel. She still has a lot to learn and is clearly no match for you.

PS I must say that Mark delighted me with his post - you should write romance novels, you have a gift for it..

Hvala moj dobri komšija

I hope it will last as long as you want it to last

And thank you all for all these valuable and thought provoking posts. I wasn't thinking that this thread would have any value.

But to me it is very valuable. Sometimes in life, no matter what it is about, you need to hear different perspectives. Sometimes we are blind to what is in front of us, and other people see it far more clearly than you.

Hvala brate moj..

[XelNaga]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
 
Something like that happened to me fairly recently, except it had elements that made it a lot worse. My world was destroyed and I was crushed. At the same time I learned a very hard lesson in the difference between infatuation and love. I don't think I have dealt with it properly ever, and have just been left disillusioned with the idea of having a relationship with someone. So I don't have much to offer, except that part where through retrospection you can try to find that clear line between infatuation and love -- its most often an extremely blurry line, and the blurriness can cause a world of pain.

Clear communication, and patience are extremely valuable tools for a relationship I think, but I'm probably not the best person to be giving advice on that topic, lol. Not even sure now why I responded except to say "me too!" ... lol.

Thank you for your contribution brother. So sorry to hear that, but don't give up.
We can't let mistakes or misfortunes from the past ruin our future.

Oh and, I learned a new word from you: "infatuation"

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Mike (here)
In reality you can't really lift anyone out of an emotional morass; they have to lift themselves.

Absolutely Mike, perfectly said. That's the right approach. You're not feeling what they're feeling anyway, you can only provide a crutch. It's really up to them to stand up and get themselves moving, and under their own power. Give them sympathy, yes, and solace, but if you provide too deep a cushion they might never get up again.

I did not inflict my hell on anyone else, not for any length of time. What good would it serve? They did not experience this small miracle that happened to me. They did not form the connection I had formed - so how could they possibly understand the loss of it? Words alone could not adequately describe it. I did of course try with a couple of close friends, but all that happened was I became intensely self-aware of how pathetic I sounded. For the most part they were spared, and I suffered in silence.

Grief is a personal thing - at least for a man it is. Which brings up an interesting point: how men and women handle the same emotional situations. It can be quite different. I guess we men are bred to internalise our struggles and keep a stiff upper lip, while women console each other openly, sometimes loudly. The latter is probably the more healthy approach. Women should know that just because men don't do this it doesn't mean we're unfeeling. We feel exactly the same things, because we're both the same - we're human. It's just our nature not to show it. Obviously it's different in every case, with some men being more outwardly emotional than others. But as a rule, we perceive grief and heartache as a form of vulnerability - not a weakness (there's a big difference), but a chink in our armour, one that we're primordially hardwired to hide and protect. It's a survival thing.

[XelNaga]

Posted by onawah (here)
There are so many walking wounded about these days, which isn't surprising given how very screwed up the world is now.
Wearing rose-colored glasses doesn't help us to deal with that reality, and especially when it comes to romance which is all too often where we can make a wrong turn.
A lot of us on the forum are empaths (at least according to one poll) and that makes us especially vulnerable to narcissists.
Unless you have frequented the thread about narcissism, you may not have an accurate picture of what that really is.

Narcissists are extremely wounded people who have learned how to put a convincing mask on their wounds and fake being normal, but they are far from that.
They can't really help themselves for the most part as they are in the grip of a very destructive mental disorder.
Anyone who engages with them without realizing that is in for a painful ride, though it may take some time before they realize it.
The warning signals are only obvious if you are really familiar with the patterns and how they manifest.
(Even then it can be tricky!! Narcissism comes in a lot of disguises...)

On another, but related topic, we have all heard the old cliche about how we tend to marry the person who most resembles our parent, even if that parent was abusive.
That is often the case with daughters of abusive dads and sons of abusive women, both of whom can become addicted to abusive partners.
Even once they understand the pattern, it is still a long road to recovery, both for the abused and for whoever they become involved with along that road.

I think what we see when we become attracted to such a person is the essence of what that person was like before they became wounded.
Even after we see the wounds, being empathic, we want to heal and rescue them.
But what often happens is we become their energy supply and scapegoats, similar to the enablers of alcoholics.
And then we discover that we need to work on recovery ourselves...

So, so true. I'm also an empath in a way, and luckily I'm usually a good judge of character. I must admit that I was never in a romantic relationship with a narcissist, but had a lot of friends like that. Obviously had to let them go, but before that have tried so hard to heal and rescue them, as you said.

This girl is wounded, deeply. She is a damaged person, she had a really, really hard life. And I knew that and I could see that in her eyes. Behind that awesome bright light in her eyes that made me fall in love with her, there was a very deep well of sadness and hurt. But that wasn't going to stop me from trying, I'm a stubborn person

The guy that she was with before me for 5 years have cheated on her, he had another girlfriend for at least 9 months along side her. She is again with him, no sane person would do that to herself

[Mike]

Mark, "Grief is a personal thing." Well said, and I s'pose I could have just written that and spared you all my last wordy post.

Vulnerability is a very human thing. We're all confronted with it at some point. I think it only becomes a weakness when one wallows in it for too long. You get used to it...you get used to the sympathy offered, you get used the sense of victimhood and all its perks, and so on. And over time, you become that person.

There certainly is value in talking about your troubles. The trick is realizing when the talking has become a crutch and a distraction and less of a therapeutic mechanism. Very few people want to truly confront the issue emotionally, so they just talk endlessly around it. That's what I've observed anyway. And I behaved like that too early on in my adulthood!

I still dream of my first great love...20 years later! A few times a month. I don't think of her often in my waking life but she's still very much alive in my subconscious. In the dreams we're always at some kind of black tie event, and we're circling each other but never engaging. It's like some kind of wild west showdown thing, and the question is always the same: who will crack first and make contact. And neither of us ever does.

Several years after we broke up I found out she hooked up with a friend of mine during one of our brief separations. Even then, several years later, it absolutely gutted me. The sense of betrayal was overwhelming.

Even worse was this: shortly after she hooked up with this guy we went to a party together, and I couldn't have been prouder to be with her. I was on cloud 9 - we'd gotten back together and everything was right with the world again, and so on. We were holding hands and all that, and very much in love (I didn't know she hooked up with the guy at that point, obviously).

But here's the thing: everyone at that party knew she hooked up with my friend, who was also there. And looking back now I can see all the clues in their behavior. The joke was on me. I was a total sucker. I think about that party even now, with me walking around with that silly smile on my face, drunk with love, all while the entire crowd there knew what I didn't, and it makes me sick to my stomach. No one told me. Not one friend pulled me aside and said, hey I have to tell you something. They all let me make a big fool of myself.

The sense of humiliation still haunts me now!

So yeah, I get it. I've had a few rodeos myself. Being in love like that is like walking a tightrope. It's enthralling while you're on it, but one bad move and you're tumbling into an emotional hell. Having said all that, I'm still very much open to love and everything it entails. I'm not in any rush to meet anyone, but if it happens I'll happily play along.

[Vicus]

Never be afraid to lose her

You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness.

You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain.

You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you.

She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself.

Love yourself before you love her.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Mike (here)
Several years after we broke up I found out she hooked up with a friend of mine during one of our brief separations. Even then, several years later, it absolutely gutted me. The sense of betrayal was overwhelming.

I totally feel you on that mate. I have so many stories, some of them nightmares. To this day I don't know if I was truly in love with Amy or just an image of Amy, or the perfect idea of her. She was not what I would call a bad person, but she behaved badly. I put that down to youth (at the time). The things she did and sometimes said in front of me you would not believe. Innocent in her mind, but incredibly inappropriate to me. Like very outwardly flirtatious behaviour, which she was probably not consciously aware of. I'm not a prude, but I draw a line at her discussing, openly around male colleagues, her various sexual experiences, likes and dislikes, etc. I draw a line at that. She was the sort of girl who had few, if any, inhibitions, and it drove me crazy.

One day though, she got her comeuppance. It was entirely my fault, but also not my fault at all.

It was about 6 months after our 'fling'. I still wasn't over her, but I was getting on with things. I continued to see her every day at work, and so I was continuing to be exposed, indirectly, to the drama of her ongoing love life. One day I was sitting in the break room having lunch. Also present was a chap called Ben. I was aware that he also liked Amy, and probably had a good shot with her. He was her age, well-built, good looking, and had a likeable personality. I was still under the delusion that Amy would change, and that I could get her back one day, so Ben was competition.

Sure enough, while having our lunch, the conversation steered onto Amy. I decided to throw him off with a bit of gossip. Amy had recently gone on holiday with a couple of girlfriends to Spain. Only for a week. Well, she'd no sooner than stepped off the plane when she hooked up with a guy called Chris, and shagged him right on that first night. Yeah... That was Amy. So I shared this delightful little anecdote with Ben. I wasn't trying to bad mouth her, I was simply telling him how she was. It wasn't a lie either, it came first hand (to me) from Amy's best friend. I was very surprised by Ben's reaction. He shot up, reached for his phone and stormed out the door with gritted teeth. What the hell was that all about?

About an hour later, back on shift, I received a frantic call from Amy (she was on a day off). Through the sobbing and shouting I learned...that she and Ben were an item, they had been quietly dating each other for over a month - and I had no idea. And until I opened my mouth Ben had no idea about Amy's dalliance in Spain with some random guy called Chris. I had just put my massive foot in it. Oops.

I guess what goes around comes around. I didn't mean to sledgehammer their relationship. I had no knowledge that Amy and Ben were dating. Nobody did. I think Ben had wanted it that way. He split from her there and then that very day.

Amy was furious with me. But over the course of a conversation on the phone that evening something changed in her. I asked her, 'Did Ben really mean something to you?' Apparently he did. He meant a lot. 'Then why did you cheat on him?' Boom. In a heartbeat she went from blaming me to blaming herself. She admitted she had a problem, and she apologised to me, not just for this but for everything - for all her horrendous behaviour these last six months. That was a little moment of closure for me and for her. It helped seal up a wound that had been festering too long.

It's also testament that old idiom: the truth will out. Sooner or later, one way or another, Boom! The truth will out.