Personal Protection

[TomKat]

If next month or year is going to be chaotic as some predict, you'll need a pistol for protection, especially if you're female or old.

I made the mistake years ago of buying a semi-automatic pistol, because I didn't know about guns. Semi-autos have a clip (magazine) with a spring which will wear out if it's stored with bullets in it, and probably jam when you fire it. Therefore, you need a revolver that is small enough to carry if need be, but in any case, you'd want to store at home fully loaded (unless you have kids).

But you should pay cash because all the credit card companies have announced they are categorizing all gun and ammo purchases (for reporting to govt).

I also, years ago, bought a pump shotgun because someone had told me that the sound of pumping it will scare any burglar away. However, a pump shotgun also has a spring magazine, so it can't be stored with shells in it or the spring will wear out and jam. So if you get a shotgun, get one that has an ordinary firing mechanism that can be stored ready to fire.

Just imagine how nervous you'd be if woken up at 3am by a burglar! Loading a magazine is not what you want to have to do, you want it ready to fire.

[Anu Raman]

but but but what about phazers? ... I need a 300 petawatt pulse rifle please! (haha)

But on a serious note, yea.. got to have some kind of protection, just in case..

Credit cards restricting firearm purchases? Blah.. I go and take some cash out of the ATM.. then buy the firearm.

[Nasu]

Not a bad idea, depending where you live. However the magazine spring thing is less of an issue than you have stated, imho. Many people, including myself, have stored magazines for years, loaded, without any issue. The easiest way to mitigate the problem is to underload your mags. So a ten round pistol mag, for example, would be loaded as nine plus one. Meaning that you have nine in the mag and one in the chamber. The same goes for pump or semi shotguns, underload it by one.

The second issue which is more important, imho, is understanding and familiarising yourself with your weapons of choice. Which means being able to clear a jam quickly and reliably. Not all bullets are created equal, even when they come off the production line on the same day. Which means that some bullets will have bad primers, or be slightly under filled with powder, resulting in a short stroke jam, or the projectile or bullet not being perfectly seated in the case, or a small unnoticeable dent in the case. All these imperfections can result in a different type of jam, irrespective of whether the gun was loaded today or last year. So therefore understanding how to quickly clear any jams is more important than the time the gun has sat loaded.

Revolvers are much less prone to jamming but carry far fewer rounds, so a trade off is made between capacity and reliability. Some modern revolvers can hold eight or nine rounds, but the vast majority will be five or six rounds only. Meaning that each shot has to count, which translates to far more time and cost of ammo being required on the range to increase your skill level to only need five or six shots. The old adage is that nobody ever wished they had fewer shots in a gun fight. Then you come to reloading, compared to a semi auto, revolvers are very slow. The speed loaders for revolvers are much more bulky and so fewer can be comfortably stored in a pocked or pouch. Some people, Jerry Miculek for example, can run a revolver as fast as a semi auto and reload in parts of a second, but for the rest of us mere mortals, revolvers are much much slower.

A small side note is to try to understand the correct terminology so that when discussing things we can all understand each other, for example a magazine is not a clip, nor vice versa. A magazine holds bullets and can, but not always, be removed. A clip however usually holds five or ten rounds by the rim, or back portion of the bullet and is inserted directly into a rifle, I can’t think of any model pistol that uses this method, think a Lee Enfield or Garand and is either dropped or ejected once the gun has been loaded or after the gun shoots the last round.

A gun without training is useless imho. So more important than which type of gun you choose, is the time spent training. All that being said, I commend anyone wishing to understand better their own protection, by whatever means available. As for the moral implications of self protection, I heard a good one a while back; it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six……….x…………. N

[TomKat]

Posted by Nasu (here)
Not a bad idea, depending where you live. However the magazine spring thing is less of an issue than you have stated, imho. Many people, including myself, have stored magazines for years, loaded, without any issue. The easiest way to mitigate the problem is to underload your mags. So a ten round pistol mag, for example, would be loaded as nine plus one. Meaning that you have nine in the mag and one in the chamber. The same goes for pump or semi shotguns, underload it by one.

The second issue which is more important, imho, is understanding and familiarising yourself with your weapons of choice. Which means being able to clear a jam quickly and reliably. Not all bullets are created equal, even when they come off the production line on the same day. Which means that some bullets will have bad primers, or be slightly under filled with powder, resulting in a short stroke jam, or the projectile or bullet not being perfectly seated in the case, or a small unnoticeable dent in the case. All these imperfections can result in a different type of jam, irrespective of whether the gun was loaded today or last year. So therefore understanding how to quickly clear any jams is more important than the time the gun has sat loaded.

Revolvers are much less prone to jamming but carry far fewer rounds, so a trade off is made between capacity and reliability. Some modern revolvers can hold eight or nine rounds, but the vast majority will be five or six rounds only. Meaning that each shot has to count, which translates to far more time and cost of ammo being required on the range to increase your skill level to only need five or six shots. The old adage is that nobody ever wished they had fewer shots in a gun fight. Then you come to reloading, compared to a semi auto, revolvers are very slow. The speed loaders for revolvers are much more bulky and so fewer can be comfortably stored in a pocked or pouch. Some people, Jerry Miculek for example, can run a revolver as fast as a semi auto and reload in parts of a second, but for the rest of us mere mortals, revolvers are much much slower.

A small side note is to try to understand the correct terminology so that when discussing things we can all understand each other, for example a magazine is not a clip, nor vice versa. A magazine holds bullets and can, but not always, be removed. A clip however usually holds five or ten rounds by the rim, or back portion of the bullet and is inserted directly into a rifle, I can’t think of any model pistol that uses this method, think a Lee Enfield or Garand and is either dropped or ejected once the gun has been loaded or after the gun shoots the last round.

A gun without training is useless imho. So more important than which type of gun you choose, is the time spent training. All that being said, I commend anyone wishing to understand better their own protection, by whatever means available. As for the moral implications of self protection, I heard a good one a while back; it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six……….x…………. N

Good info. My assumption is hat a revolver wouldn't be used in a gunfight, but as a deterrent to an attacker. Semi-autos would be preferable in a gunfight, but I seriously doubt I'll ever be in a gunfight. I'll keep my semi-auto as it will only get more valuable with time. But I won't load the clip. I might trade it for a revolver at a gun show, though.

[pyrangello]

My buddy decided that my mom having a gun in her house was a bad idea period. I agreed. We decided the best protection for my mom to have in her house were a few cans of Bear Repellant spray. Stuff shoots 30ft plus and will put an approaching human down no problem.great alternative to no guns

[Satori]

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Nasu (here)
Not a bad idea, depending where you live. However the magazine spring thing is less of an issue than you have stated, imho. Many people, including myself, have stored magazines for years, loaded, without any issue. The easiest way to mitigate the problem is to underload your mags. So a ten round pistol mag, for example, would be loaded as nine plus one. Meaning that you have nine in the mag and one in the chamber. The same goes for pump or semi shotguns, underload it by one.

The second issue which is more important, imho, is understanding and familiarising yourself with your weapons of choice. Which means being able to clear a jam quickly and reliably. Not all bullets are created equal, even when they come off the production line on the same day. Which means that some bullets will have bad primers, or be slightly under filled with powder, resulting in a short stroke jam, or the projectile or bullet not being perfectly seated in the case, or a small unnoticeable dent in the case. All these imperfections can result in a different type of jam, irrespective of whether the gun was loaded today or last year. So therefore understanding how to quickly clear any jams is more important than the time the gun has sat loaded.

Revolvers are much less prone to jamming but carry far fewer rounds, so a trade off is made between capacity and reliability. Some modern revolvers can hold eight or nine rounds, but the vast majority will be five or six rounds only. Meaning that each shot has to count, which translates to far more time and cost of ammo being required on the range to increase your skill level to only need five or six shots. The old adage is that nobody ever wished they had fewer shots in a gun fight. Then you come to reloading, compared to a semi auto, revolvers are very slow. The speed loaders for revolvers are much more bulky and so fewer can be comfortably stored in a pocked or pouch. Some people, Jerry Miculek for example, can run a revolver as fast as a semi auto and reload in parts of a second, but for the rest of us mere mortals, revolvers are much much slower.

A small side note is to try to understand the correct terminology so that when discussing things we can all understand each other, for example a magazine is not a clip, nor vice versa. A magazine holds bullets and can, but not always, be removed. A clip however usually holds five or ten rounds by the rim, or back portion of the bullet and is inserted directly into a rifle, I can’t think of any model pistol that uses this method, think a Lee Enfield or Garand and is either dropped or ejected once the gun has been loaded or after the gun shoots the last round.

A gun without training is useless imho. So more important than which type of gun you choose, is the time spent training. All that being said, I commend anyone wishing to understand better their own protection, by whatever means available. As for the moral implications of self protection, I heard a good one a while back; it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six……….x…………. N

Good info. My assumption is hat a revolver wouldn't be used in a gunfight, but as a deterrent to an attacker. Semi-autos would be preferable in a gunfight, but I seriously doubt I'll ever be in a gunfight. I'll keep my semi-auto as it will only get more valuable with time. But I won't load the clip. I might trade it for a revolver at a gun show, though.

I urge you to get at least two more magazines, or clips.

It is fine to keep the magazines loaded. Just be sure to cycle the rounds through the magazines/clips every now and then. You can do that by firing the rounds or simply by either putting the clip in the weapon and pulling back on the slide until all rounds are ejected, or by removing the clip and pushing the rounds out of the clip with your thumb or fingers. This will allow the spring to decompress. Let the spring rest, so to speak, for a while. Then load the clips again.

An unloaded weapon is useless if and when you need it. Every split second is critical, so keep the weapon safe and secure, but loaded and ready.

I have springs that are decades old and they work just fine. You can also buy springs and keep them in reserve.

[silver birch]

I don't mind discussing guns, as I have been a pistol/revolver target shooter all my life ...
My home country is one of this planet's most restrictive on gun ownership, so having a gun
for protection is out of question.
Apart from that reality, I would like to add a few points from my experience, which may
be interesting for anyone on their way to the gun dealer.

* IF you decide to get some kind of gun for personal protection, please train like a pro,
or at least practice till you can hit a grapefruit in 25m (82ft).
That is not some "standard", but it is good if you can hit a shoulder instead of the
head, a leg instead of a stomach and so on. I will explain why later.

* I would also recommend some PPC-training (various spelling depending on region,
but Practical Police Course shooting in USofA) as real world gun fights are not always
in good light, lots of room and no old ladies suddenly turning the corner.

* My next aim is some practical thoughts on the value of guns for protection.
There is a small town (if my memory is with me, in South Dakota) where
"everybody" owns a gun, and a famous restaurant with open carry staff.
I think that town has the lowest "gun death" rate in USofA.

* In case you don't live there ...
I suggest you read "Non Violent Communication" by Marshall B. Rosenberg,
and especially the part where he is laying on the ground with a dope addict
on his chest, threatening him with a gun.
My point here is that if you have a gun for protection, it may provoke any
tense situation into a gunfight.
There is a reason mr Rosenberg lived to write the book.

* Another important drawback with guns, is that it may give you a
partly false feeling of being protected/safer, but when you imagine
the aftermath of shooting another human, with potentially non-intended
consequences, I suggest it is not only rosy cheeks.

* My own experience of fights and threaths is limited to non-gunfights,
luckily, but I had one robbery attempt with baton and teargas in the face,
and as I had no weapon, it got into manual combat.
When the fight was over, the robber run away without my money
or serious damage and I was left with teargas in the eyes and problems breathing.

Later i thought a lot about which weapon could have been to my advantage.
A knife or a gun would probably not have been any good, as it was in a narrow
area, and I would have had teargas in my face and a split skull from the baton
as soon as I tried to draw my weapon.
Any bad guy with a gun will probably shoot the moment you reach for your gun.

* To summarize my bullet-list, the conclusion I came to is that a "bear spray" or
similar probably is the best personal protection apart from NVC.
And perhaps most importantly, to have it in your hand before the bad guy has
drawn his weapon.
(bear spray is also illegal in my country ...)

[I am B]

I am so jealous guys...

The last 48h we've had 3 murders in my region (catalonia), 2 of em by firearm. Still normal populus is barelly allowed to own and even less carry.

As an airsoft enthusiast I got myself a nice high powered airgun (which is, imho, worthier than a gun to hunt small game or birds in a collapse situation), but that is nothing compared to a real gun for home defense.

I've been thinking about getting a "blank firing" gun for disuasory purposes, but even those have extreme regulation here.

If this situation goes on I don't know what I'm gonna end up doing. I managed to have access to great black market stuff, but the prices are outside my reach...

[TomKat]

Posted by silver birch (here)
I don't mind discussing guns, as I have been a pistol/revolver target shooter all my life ...
My home country is one of this planet's most restrictive on gun ownership, so having a gun
for protection is out of question.
Apart from that reality, I would like to add a few points from my experience, which may
be interesting for anyone on their way to the gun dealer.

* IF you decide to get some kind of gun for personal protection, please train like a pro,
or at least practice till you can hit a grapefruit in 25m (82ft).
That is not some "standard", but it is good if you can hit a shoulder instead of the
head, a leg instead of a stomach and so on. I will explain why later.

* I would also recommend some PPC-training (various spelling depending on region,
but Practical Police Course shooting in USofA) as real world gun fights are not always
in good light, lots of room and no old ladies suddenly turning the corner.

* My next aim is some practical thoughts on the value of guns for protection.
There is a small town (if my memory is with me, in South Dakota) where
"everybody" owns a gun, and a famous restaurant with open carry staff.
I think that town has the lowest "gun death" rate in USofA.

* In case you don't live there ...
I suggest you read "Non Violent Communication" by Marshall B. Rosenberg,
and especially the part where he is laying on the ground with a dope addict
on his chest, threatening him with a gun.
My point here is that if you have a gun for protection, it may provoke any
tense situation into a gunfight.
There is a reason mr Rosenberg lived to write the book.

* Another important drawback with guns, is that it may give you a
partly false feeling of being protected/safer, but when you imagine
the aftermath of shooting another human, with potentially non-intended
consequences, I suggest it is not only rosy cheeks.

* My own experience of fights and threaths is limited to non-gunfights,
luckily, but I had one robbery attempt with baton and teargas in the face,
and as I had no weapon, it got into manual combat.
When the fight was over, the robber run away without my money
or serious damage and I was left with teargas in the eyes and problems breathing.

Later i thought a lot about which weapon could have been to my advantage.
A knife or a gun would probably not have been any good, as it was in a narrow
area, and I would have had teargas in my face and a split skull from the baton
as soon as I tried to draw my weapon.
Any bad guy with a gun will probably shoot the moment you reach for your gun.

* To summarize my bullet-list, the conclusion I came to is that a "bear spray" or
similar probably is the best personal protection apart from NVC.
And perhaps most importantly, to have it in your hand before the bad guy has
drawn his weapon.
(bear spray is also illegal in my country ...)

Police in thte USA recommend, for home, wasp spray. It will disable your attacker but not put you in legal jeapardy. For outside the home, I guess pepper spray is the way to go.

[pyrangello]

And I would 2cd wasp spray as well. My buddy taught self defense, he was telling me they did a simulation of 1 person having a gun and 1 person having a knife. The guy having a knife the attacker was using a red magic marker. Both standing 20 feet apart they gave the signal for the man with the knife to pursue the person with the gun . What shocked everyone was that everyone that stood and had a gun ended up with a red mark on their chest before they could get 1 shot off. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The attacker with a knife was faster to get to them with his knife than the others could fire a round off. ................................... What was the solution , nobody could figure it out until it was brought up that the person with the gun when confronted with a person with a knife should have started backing up as the person with the knife was approaching giving him more time to pull and discharge the gun. Think about that one.

[Spiral]

The trouble with carrying a firearm or any weapon for that matter as some kind of talisman, is that it isn't a talisman, it's a tool & if you aren't proficient with it there's more than a fair chance your attacker will take it off you & use it against you.

Like say you are fumbling for it in the bottom of a bag & your adrenaline is flooding so you can't move in a cool & collected kind of way, and then when you do find it you can't remember how the safety catch works, at that point the far more nimble & streetwise youth you are dealing with has punched you & grabbed it out of your hands....

Even if you do manage to get a shot or two off, pistols are not the easiest weapon to use, it's not like in the movies where they shoot someone at 100 yrds with pinpoint accuracy.... you have in truth little chance of hitting anyone at that distance, and even if they are closer, much closer, & have you factored in where those bullets will end up ? Even if you hit the guy in the chest it could still kill a child behind them, as happened in Liverpool the other week .


I would recommend buying any weapon with cash, even airguns (more for hunting), and be prepared to give a fake name & address, so you aren't going on some list.


BTW there is movement afoot in the UK to ban lead bullets & air pellets by 2025...prep now.

[Casey Claar]

I would rather work on deepening my connection with my Guidance system to position me away from bodily harm. I would never shoot anyone regardless of the situation so for me it seems the more viable option. I may also have at my disposal ways of making myself invisible. It is necessary ( in my case ) to think out beyond the current life and cause no harm that could cause me more harm than good. We all have our roles to play. I am just pointing out that the tools at our disposal go WAY beyond guns. Which does not exclude them but simply offers more choice. Big subject, and I thank the OP for bringing it to the floor.

[ramus]

Too add my two cents ........

The pepper ball gun is by far one of the best non-lethal weapons available on the market for self-defense. about. $150.00. There are inert ball to practice with.

The co2 cartridges can sit in the gun, and are not punctured til you pull the trigger .... cartridge is good for 7 shots ..The ball move thru the air 270 feet per sec.
Has a laser for aiming and flash-light

https://www.amazon.com/PepperBall-Li...768211&sr=8-13

Product details
Brand PepperBall
Range 40 Feet
This Kit Includes : 1 LifeLite Mobile Launcher, 6 Live SD PepperBall Projectiles, 12 Inert Practice Projectiles, 3 CO2 Cartridges
Built on the success of the first generation, LifeLite Mobile is designed to be more portable and convenient to transport or carry. Equipped with a dual LED flashlight and built-in PepperBall launcher, LifeLite Mobile offers covert protection in plain sight. Designed to launch PepperBall projectiles from as far as 40 feet away, the built-in laser guide helps the user find and hit the target with ease.
Bright flashlight with integrated PepperBall launcher. Holds 3 pepper balls at a time. Semi-automatic firing system. Dual LEDs emit 350 lumen of light. C02 power launches pepper balls up to 40 feet. Pepper balls release pepper cloud upon impact to stop assailants instantly. Disperses in a 12-foot radius.
Does not have to hit attackers to be effective. Includes inert projectiles for practice firings. Shell color indicates payload; red live, purple inert. 100% water proof projectiles. Non-flammable.

[TomKat]

Tucker Carlson tells it like it is about Democrat-inspired lawlessness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH7cnmGHNxw

[Satori]

Posted by Casey Claar (here)
I would rather work on deepening my connection with my Guidance system to position me away from bodily harm. I would never shoot anyone regardless of the situation so for me it seems the more viable option. I may also have at my disposal ways of making myself invisible. It is necessary ( in my case ) to think out beyond the current life and cause no harm that could cause me more harm than good. We all have our roles to play. I am just pointing out that the tools at our disposal go WAY beyond guns. Which does not exclude them but simply offers more choice. Big subject, and I thank the OP for bringing it to the floor.

I sincerely wish you luck with that approach if, G-d forbid, you ever find yourself in a position to call upon your Guidance system to reposition you out of harms’ way.

[Satori]

Posted by ramus (here)
Too add my two cents ........

The pepper ball gun is by far one of the best non-lethal weapons available on the market for self-defense. about. $150.00. There are inert ball to practice with.

The co2 cartridges can sit in the gun, and are not punctured til you pull the trigger .... cartridge is good for 7 shots ..The ball move thru the air 270 feet per sec.
Has a laser for aiming and flash-light

https://www.amazon.com/PepperBall-Li...768211&sr=8-13

Product details
Brand PepperBall
Range 40 Feet
This Kit Includes : 1 LifeLite Mobile Launcher, 6 Live SD PepperBall Projectiles, 12 Inert Practice Projectiles, 3 CO2 Cartridges
Built on the success of the first generation, LifeLite Mobile is designed to be more portable and convenient to transport or carry. Equipped with a dual LED flashlight and built-in PepperBall launcher, LifeLite Mobile offers covert protection in plain sight. Designed to launch PepperBall projectiles from as far as 40 feet away, the built-in laser guide helps the user find and hit the target with ease.
Bright flashlight with integrated PepperBall launcher. Holds 3 pepper balls at a time. Semi-automatic firing system. Dual LEDs emit 350 lumen of light. C02 power launches pepper balls up to 40 feet. Pepper balls release pepper cloud upon impact to stop assailants instantly. Disperses in a 12-foot radius.
Does not have to hit attackers to be effective. Includes inert projectiles for practice firings. Shell color indicates payload; red live, purple inert. 100% water proof projectiles. Non-flammable.

What do you propose to do when the target, or the person or persons who intend to do you harm, is/are more than 40 feet away and are firing lead or other munitions at you?

[pueblo]

Guns not an option here, so this...




Plus some of these (infused into a water/alcohol mix)





Should do the job nicely!

[ramus]

As in any scenario .. you can have a situation that is hard to defend ...run or die .. or pull out a gun ..

[AriG]

Well after moving to the RPZ redneck protection zone) a few years ago, we own 2 glocks, 1 pump shotgun, 2 AR 15, and a 38 special revolver I purchased in 1991. We also have two 135 pound livestock guardian dogs who also see us as part of their herd. Electric livestock fencing around our acreage and well placed barb wire and thorny scrub and trees. Weapons are a necessary evil but strategic property planning is important. Even if you live in the city.

[Jim_Duyer]

Posted by TomKat (here)
If next month or year is going to be chaotic as some predict, you'll need a pistol for protection, especially if you're female or old.

I made the mistake years ago of buying a semi-automatic pistol, because I didn't know about guns. Semi-autos have a clip (magazine) with a spring which will wear out if it's stored with bullets in it, and probably jam when you fire it. Therefore, you need a revolver that is small enough to carry if need be, but in any case, you'd want to store at home fully loaded (unless you have kids).

But you should pay cash because all the credit card companies have announced they are categorizing all gun and ammo purchases (for reporting to govt).

I also, years ago, bought a pump shotgun because someone had told me that the sound of pumping it will scare any burglar away. However, a pump shotgun also has a spring magazine, so it can't be stored with shells in it or the spring will wear out and jam. So if you get a shotgun, get one that has an ordinary firing mechanism that can be stored ready to fire.

Just imagine how nervous you'd be if woken up at 3am by a burglar! Loading a magazine is not what you want to have to do, you want it ready to fire.

Rather than purchase anything at a store that might have cameras on the street outside, why not try your local flea market? I have purchased Mac-11 submachine pistols there (not automatic until you make it so), as well as a variety of other rifles and pistols, and never had to even show ID. Texas, especially West Texas is still a good place to shop, and if there are no flea markets then buy it from an individual selling it at his home.
Automatics have the advantage of giving you more shots for your buck. Yes the springs get old - but have a half-dozen magazines if you want - I do. And the Glock's frame, magazine body, and several other components are made from a high-strength nylon-based polymer invented by Gaston Glock, called Polymer 2. Not as obvious on some far-distant wanding devices (not to be considered as undiscoverable by any means).
If you do decide on a revolver, get a good size caliber.
And for those who have problems seeing short distances, or who have not had the time to practice,
a shotgun is always good. The pumps can go as good as 5 rounds and with deer pellets you really
make an impression.
Good luck.