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Thread: FREEDOM on this planet

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    Belgium Avalon Member All is one's Avatar
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    Lightbulb FREEDOM on this planet

    FREEDOM on this planet - desire & reality


    Since we all long for more freedom I thought it might be interesting to do a deep dive in the complete meaning, origin and attainability of this desire. Is it a goal we can achieve on this planet or rather a personal feeling to attain?

    Freedom is the desire inherent to every living being.

    Yet, in this world all existence is demarcated and true freedom can only be experienced within the limitations of this creation. A positive way in which freedom can be experienced is as a desire for self expression and uniqueness giving colour to this world.

    The desire for freedom, according to my personal understanding, stems from the souls memory of total freedom and completeness. This memory leaves a conscious or subconscious mark on the soul. It might also provide us the understanding that this desire/mark is present in every living being on this planet. Making us capable of experiencing unity on a soul level and making us more compassionate towards the soul journey of each individual.

    Therefor the urge for freedom in its purest form has more correlation with compassion for every living being and all of creation. For itís entwined with the wisdom that every living being wants to reunite with this state of total harmony and completeness.

    Yet the desire for freedom can also take a wrong turn.

    The desire for total freedom can also take on a darker more egoÔstic form. Too much desire for freedom will lead to a person wanting to infringe on divine limitations of our existence. An unrealistic desire for freedom will always trespass ethical boundaries in one way or another. It is part of the reason why one person would disrespect the rights of another person (just to be able to feel unblocked and feel some sort of fake reunion with higher powers & freedom).

    Quote Thus in some people the urge for freedom is so big that it can either propel those people to:

    - devote themselves to create more harmony and understanding in this world in order to create & experience more of this divine freedom
    or
    - it can either express itself in a more service-to-self way: as in people desiring materialistic pleasures, power, wealth and fame to the maximum
    Thus freedom can be the highest good to strive for or a swamp of desire to drown in.

    Since the desire for freedom can both be used as a force for good or bad & since its such an important good it would be a pity to hollow out the meaning of this word. We thus should be more thoughtful about when and how to use this word, so that its positive meaning does not get squandered and lost.

    In my opinion total freedom is a noble goal we can strive for in this world, in our personal lives by trying to find our unique self expression and on a global level by by having a plan/outlook on how to create more harmony in this world and amongst each other.

    And this goal is especially important since current structures are oppressing much of the the natural harmonious and healthy ways in which humanity could exist.


    What do you think?


    Quote What does freedom mean to you?


    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:41.
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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    Ja !
    Dank U voor een post die perfect is.
    Uw Naam herinnert ons eraan waarom we hier zijn.

    Yes!
    Thank U for one post that is perfect.
    Your name, All is one, reminds us..
    Why we are here.

    We may think of some, share some insights...
    But your insight is at the core of all worth we have,
    while existing within
    the impermanence of these short lives we experience here.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 16th November 2022 at 15:41. Reason: fixed 'All is one's name

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    We have to consider what the opposite of it might be at the same time.

    And, consider where we are experiencing either of them, which is here in this world, as distinct from anywhere else or in any other form, ie, a spiritual form of some kind or other.

    Is freedom a freedom from any kind of external coercion or is it a freedom from an internal anchor to something, either good or bad ?

    Free will, what is that ? . . . is it a game we play or what ?

    I think it comes down to identifying that there's an individual responsibility, and if there's an individual responsibility there must be some kind of individual identity for each of us.

    How do we combine an individual identity for each of us with the idea of being 'all one'. In the ego mind domain, that's an oxymoron ( or whatever the best word for that is ). But, through a solid 'faith' link up through a source or central spiritual point, we can be both purely individuated AND purely 'all one'.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    We have to consider what the opposite of it might be at the same time.

    And, consider where we are experiencing either of them, which is here in this world, as distinct from anywhere else or in any other form, ie, a spiritual form of some kind or other.

    Is freedom a freedom from any kind of external coercion or is it a freedom from an internal anchor to something, either good or bad ?

    Free will, what is that ? . . . is it a game we play or what ?

    I think it comes down to identifying that there's an individual responsibility, and if there's an individual responsibility there must be some kind of individual identity for each of us.

    How do we combine an individual identity for each of us with the idea of being 'all one'. In the ego mind domain, that's an oxymoron ( or whatever the best word for that is ). But, through a solid 'faith' link up through a source or central spiritual point, we can be both purely individuated AND purely 'all one'.
    Yes. I know it's a simple answer, but YES, norman.
    My answer may seem trivial, yet your post is a very affirmative YES, much more than a Thanks,
    and a Thanks too.

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    They say in america that Liberty is granted by God and freedom is government granted. So I generally have a mind-set relative to liberty than to freedom as anything touched by government is sure to be exploited; and it has and is exploited more than less.

    The definitions of Liberty vs. freedom are a bit different. But I have come to learn that official definitions are not always at play in any given area.

    I think if one has sufficient liberties - not at the expense of others, this is indeed going to lead to a satisfying existence. I think the most basic of liberties is one based on a live and let live philosophy without getting too caught up in details. The devil being in the details. This is what liberty means to me.
    Irishness is not primarily a question of birth or blood or language; it is the condition of being involved in the Irish situation, and usually of being mauled by it. ~ Conor C. O'Brien [1917-2oo8]

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    One thing I've learned about freedom is that there is a 1-1 relationship between it and responsibility. To exercise freedom requires a corresponding amount of responsibility. Maximum freedom requires maximum responsibility. To give up responsibility is to give up freedom. It's a spectrum, so there is every degree of possibility between each endpoint. This dynamic is covered under the concepts of self-government or self-control.

    Quote "Those who will not govern themselves are condemned to find masters to govern over them" -- Steven Pressfield

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    I think about this question of freedom and responsibility, having a sovereign self yet being a part of the whole often. It does seem to be key for a civilisation to move forward.

    I think having a connection to the "whole" or source, even though we may not be able to conceptualise what that means, but being open to explore that whole and expanding our understanding of how that interaction works is a desire many have. What we do or even think or "be" as part of that oneness is like a holographic fractal that changes the dynamics of the whole.

    Sometimes I feel it is an ultimate free choice to choose that responsibility to care without coercion or rules or rewards where our sovereign self feels united with other sovereign selves with a deep trust that it is reciprocated in the highest honour through the God (source) in me to the God in you .

    Finding that unity seems hard when we look around or feel the world where we stand today in "time". If enough sovereign individuals can change enough "fractals" of the whole can that help make the change easier for others that follow. There is so many places the mind takes us trying to make sense of it all, so perhaps we have to be "out of our minds" to bring that essence to where we are now and create with that essence of "love" or wholeness through and with our minds to create freedom on the planet.

    It's a great question All is one
    Last edited by Harmony; 26th November 2022 at 07:24.

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    To my way of thinking, freedom exists only when and where one is not dependent upon anyone else for anything. That does not mean being an anarchist, a hermit, or declining all offers of assistance or hospitality, nor preclude being hospitable yourself, nor being without compassion or love. But rather, it means being able to meet and satisfy all needs anywhere at all times, even when circumstances do not favor you.

    Most people do not want that freedom.

    To many people, freedom means being comfortable, free from worries that can be a matter of life and death, success and failure. Free from having to take real responsibility for yourself.

    More like freefrom, than freedom.

    For what itís worth.

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    Humans are gregarious in nature; we require social interaction with others of our kind. This interaction has rules. Most of those rules are unspoken, yet they are common knowledge. It is within these parameters that personal responsibility is formed.

    Freedom stems from personal responsibility. Since personal responsibility derives its meaning and direction from society, freedom is only possible to the extent that the society is civilized.

    Civil society is just a veneer stretched thin over an intolerant, belligerent, and entirely antagonistic animal disposition hidden just below the surface. We are not very civilized, nor are we very responsible, individually or as a collective. And so we cannot be free.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless ó like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    Ok, Norman youíve got a point. Maybe there are different levels/types of freedom.

    Would it be easier to talk about the subject if we divide the discussion/analysis in to different parts?
    Let's try


    A) Different types/levels of FREEDOM

    1) Freedom on a soul level (having a human experience)

    2) Freedom in relation to societal structures:

    What does freedom in society mean?

    What would a society in which everyone would have the maximum amount of freedom ,within the limits of a functioning societal structure, look like?

    3) Freedom in relation to relationships?

    4) Freedom in regards to free will (reincarnation; karma, Ö)

    Maybe we first need to understand each level/way in which freedom can manifest itself or can be blocked.

    But at some point I think all these levels influence each other & merge in to one.


    B) POWER DYNAMICS: The capability of the masses to self governthe responsibility of those in power

    COLLECTIVE ATTITUDE

    For itís our collective attitude towards freedom and personal sovereignty that decides the dynamics between the leaders and the masses.

    CAPABILITY OF THE MASSES


    Itís the capability of the masses to govern themselves (and take thus responsibility for their behavior towards others etc.) that directs the level of freedom a society can be constituted of.

    RESPONSIBILITY OF THE LEADERS


    But itís also the responsibility of the leaders to provide structures that are in sync with the capacity of the masses and if possible of each individual to govern themselves. For if those two are not in sync than that societal construct will fall.

    ➔When the masses are oppressed they will burst out of the structures that contain them.
    ➔But when the masses are being given or take more freedom than they can handle they create the chaos and suffering for and amongst themselves.

    As Tiyaira explained in her post:
    Quote "Those who will not govern themselves are condemned to find masters to govern over them" -- Steven Pressfield
    Thus the freedom that each individual can responsibly handle is related to the level of freedom by which that society can function.


    @ JackMcThorn: Yes, I love the way you describe:
    Quote LIBERTY: Sufficient liberties - not at the expense of others, based on a live and let live philosophy

    A person with a good intentions will only need the above explanation to know how to live their lives.
    Unfortunately people and society are so complex and torn apart that most people will a lot of the time not live according to the above principles.


    C) FREEDOM - SELF-SUFFICIENCY

    @ Satori:
    Yes, I agree healthy freedom has a lot to do with being self sufficient. And I think making people more self sufficient is a big part of evolving towards a more harmonious society. There are just not the right structures in place at the moment to make this transition possible.

    And I also agree in that most people nowadays really want FreeFROM responsibility & worries.

    Maybe thatís the essence of this discussion as long as people mistake FreeDom for FreeFROM there will never be harmony.


    D)POSSIBLE CAUSES OF DISHARMONY and thus lack of FREEDOM

    @ Ernie Nemeth

    "We are not very civilized, nor are we very responsible, individually or as a collective. And so we cannot be free. " I agree to an extend.

    A lot of the lack of people to self govern is because they can not control their basic instincts and vices (greed, anger, hate jealousy, Ö). But also because there's a huge unbalance in wealth and opportunities; a lot of personal and collective traumatization Ö & a myriad of flaws in the structures of society ..

    I think if the system and mindset of the people could be changed towards self sufficienty much of the uncivilized and unresponsible behavior would disappear.

    For example if the whole system would be constructed on the basic principle that everyone should own a piece of land large enough to live self sustainable people would maybe be propelled towards taking up more self responsibility to provide for themselves and contribute to a harmonious and civilized society Ö


    @Harmony & Norman

    EGO & ONENESS

    Being an individual and having an ego does not block oneself to be able to experience unity or oneness.

    The ego is needed for the soul to experience the journey of life.

    But the ego is only like a tool/vehicle for the soul.
    The soul is the real driving force for the journey.

    However when the ego gets too strong/big we lose our driving force and connection to why it is weíre driving Ö and those people oftenly look for material and other worldly things to make up for the lost driving force of the soul.

    Either it takes them to slow down and realize again whoís driving or it takes a car crash for the ego to realize that the soul is the driving force.

    Quote Either way weíre all connected through the spark of life energy given to us at birth and the evolutionary road weíre on (past & present & future). Ö
    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 19th November 2022 at 20:40.
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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    > 2) Freedom in relation to societal structures:

    Quote What does freedom in society mean?
    • The ability to do what you want to do
    • The ability not to do what you don't want to do
    The trick is to want to act respectfully, morally, honourably and not want to act the inverse. It can't be compelled, it must be developed.

    Quote What would a society in which everyone would have the maximum amount of freedom ,within the limits of a functioning societal structure, look like?
    Maximum freedom requires maximum responsibility. Self-sovereignty. But self-sovereignty is an oxymoron in international law. Sovereignty is the political authority of a state [ß1] and the sovereign are those invested with it. Self-sovereignty technically implies a state of one, but such a state is not recognized in international law. As it is typically used, people are really expressing a desire for autonomy.

    How then to generate self-sovereignty? Have the people be invested with the public authority. That means the people actually have the ability to manage the state as in a true democracy. Not a representative democracy. Not a republic. Under this construction, self-sovereignty can be recognized within the affairs of the society.

    But note the trick: only those who have developed themselves sufficiently can play the self-sovereign game. It does not work otherwise because under-developed people will inevitably run afoul of the law and bring severe consequences to themselves and their society. They don't know what they are doing! Thus, you have the sane and the insane, and a mission to produce the former, reduce the latter, and qualify the boundary.

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    @ Tiyaira

    TOTAL HARMONY ~ COMPLETE FREEDOM

    Complete freedom, on a societal level, would indeed be a possibility if all people would always behave respectfully, morally & honourably.

    Alas this is not the case. I think this is in part because the awareness of people of their responsibility towards the whole (other people, nature, etc) is too low. People have lost connection between their own existence and what sustains them. Many people have also too little awareness of the importance of their own input in the outcome of things in their lives.
    Because they have lost this connection they behave irresponsible etc. and can at the moment not yet live self-sovereign or free.

    THE SUBJECT OF POWER

    Hence right now sovereignty is connected to the power of the state.

    But that's not yet a solution. For then we get to the subject of the dangers of concentrated power.
    Power tends to be linked to corruption. And when there are not enough checks and balances or different people who have enough input. that concentrated power can become really corrupt.
    (On the other hand it's not possible yet to give all the power back to the people because of the problems with basic instincts and vices Ö for which the whole system was set up).

    CURRENT SYSTEM A COIN WITH TWO SIDES:

    Recently I heard someone proposing we would be better off focussing on the positive side of our current system ...
    I think this is only half a truth. Indeed the system weíre living in now does in one way give a good order to things, but the coin has two sides.
    Itís due to the flaws in this current system weíre needing to deal with the mess weíre in globally right now (environment, financial unstability, doubtful medical therapies, ...).
    I think the cause of our current system disfunctioning in essence comes from deep rooted patterns in humanity (being present in the masses as well as in many leaders).
    Hence I think anyone defending this system just does not want to see the problems or find a solution. Theyíre just trying to bypass the issues in the hope they wonít be confronted with those again.
    But since these issues arose from those deeper patterns in humanity they will always pop up again as long as we didnít find any solution for them yet.


    THE SOLUTION:

    ➜CHANGING STRUCTURES


    Since the solution does not lie in giving the state or the people complete power; I think the solution must be sought in changing the structures.
    Quote To achieve real harmony & freedom we would need a structure that can protect the masses from power abuse of the leaders as well as provide a matrix in which the vices of the people can not thrive.
    Because a correct structure protects the masses from power abuse of the leaders as well it is a mold shaped in a way that the vices of the people can not thrive. Hence the structure is almost decisive for the level of wealth and freedom a society can attain.

    ◉TRUE DEMOCRACY

    I do like the idea of true and more direct democracy Ö

    Ideas for direct democracy: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1496112

    But then itís a question of whether there should be a divide between who is fit for this & who is not? For some people will not have the brain but other smart people will maybe not have enough consciousness to vote for the right decisionsÖ Thus the result of such system would always be a reflection of the level of consciousness and intelligence of the whole group.

    ◉RAISING CONSCIOUSNESS

    To make such a societal model functioning one would need to raise the level of awareness & morality and consciousness, philosophy and debate amongst the people. This so that each person can contribute their highest wisdom when taking part in such a system of direct democracy.

    ◉POSSIBILITIES FOR MORE SELF SUSTAINBILITY & SELF RESPONSIBILITY

    Iím a proponent of a type of system in which people would be given their own piece of land, and would need to help in creating their own homes and food. This would help raise the peopleís awareness and responsible behavior. It would also make each person more self sustainable, self-responsible and more sovereign (to a degree each person can definitively handle).

    ◉JUSTICE

    But even then one would still need some kind of justice system, for the human vices are partly inborn.
    Possibility of some kind of justice system: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1492918



    In essence I think that if we want to achieve freedom for everyone on this planet weíll have to invent a new & harmonious way of structuring the world.
    Anyone interested in helping to invent such a system?


    Should you be of the opninion that it is useless to think about another way to structure our society, since everything is so disfunctional & stuck in rigidity.
    Quote Just remember that if we do not think out these new structures they'll never come in to existence.
    We can not wish everything will be solved without daring to think about the solutions.

    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 24th November 2022 at 17:42.
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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    Freedom is derived from free will. If there is the will to be free then freedom reigns.

    But for a mortal being, freedom is always limited.

    In context then, a member of society is as free as the will of its people.

    If the will of the people is to restrict freedom, it will be restricted.

    Other than violence, there is only one thing that can circumvent the will of the people: apathy.

    Since freedom must be actively defended and protected, apathy is the act of choosing not to be free.

    Freedom, for the most part, is instinctive, organic, and natural. For the rest, it must be taught and can be learned.


    Most have no notion of what freedom is, they just assume that they are free.
    We have not known freedom for a long, long time.
    Never yet on this planet.

    Unless one defines their current cell bars as self-condoned 'beneficent limitations' for the good of all concerned...we are not free.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless ó like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    Hey All is one,

    - In agreement with you on Total Harmony ~ Complete Freedom and Current System A Coin With Two Sides.

    - On The Subject of Power, I'm in agreement, but I think properly designing to avoid corruption is superior to "checks and balances". Existing systems have a weakness in that they rely on the strength of character of the people in them, but if the people are corrupted, then that system will fail.

    - For Changing Structures, I'm in agreement, except for the limitation on wealth and freedom. My research indicates the mismanagement of wealth in a society leads to destabilizing factors such as excessive immigration (which itself causes cultural destabilization). A system that recognizes true self-sovereignty can overcome societal limitations on freedom (for the individuals that achieve it).

    - On True Democracy, direct democracies have a trilemma problem to solve, and any system worth considering needs to solve this. Ease of access is not the same as proper system design.

    Quote But then itís a question of whether there should be a divide between who is fit for this & who is not?
    This can't be helped because everybody is at different stages of growth. There will be classism based on character development with the more refined beings achieving self-sovereignty. Not everybody can handle maximum responsibility and that is ok. It's the same thing as not allowing children to drive cars. A couple clarifications: refined development is not the same as celebrity, wealth, or power, and social credit is not the way to do this.

    Quote Thus the result of such system would always be a reflection of the level of consciousness and intelligence of the whole group.
    This can be overcome with a good system design. Think of the democracy as a ship navigating society in reality through time. If the ship has a "map" and a "navigation system", it can chart a course even when the society is of low consciousness or intelligence and not falter. It's related to the trilemma problem above.

    - On Raising Consciousness, if the ship were designed in such a way as to "show people how it's done", it might be able to facilitate upliftment through example and inspiration. Of course, it still needs to reach out and facilitate awareness, interaction, debate, etc.

    - With regard to Possibilities for more Self-Sustainability & Self-Responsibility, I don't see these suggestions as being feasible or related. They would fail under a dense population load. There are also other possibilities beyond this kind of thinking.

    - With regard to Justice, it is not the same thing as a public authority for a society and I wouldn't let a conflict resolution system determine law. I see you're looking for ease of access, empathy, and regional scoping. Maybe they don't have these where you are, but they do here, and even then it is not sufficient. Empathy can be weaponized, for example. Justice systems force people to abdicate responsibility and prevent natural selection. Rights only work if other people are responsible, but what if they aren't responsible or worse, are in fact actual enemies? I prefer not to rely on the faulty "rights" mechanism. If you think numerology can somehow solve a conflict, you have to design how that would work.

    Quote In essence I think that if we want to achieve freedom for everyone on this planet weíll have to invent a new & harmonious way of structuring the world.
    Anyone interested in helping to invent such a system?
    We can't change existing societal structures for various reasons, but we can build something new and go our own way through the process of self-determination and secure our freedom that way. For myself, I've already made some progress towards that end.
    Last edited by Tiyaira; 25th November 2022 at 21:14.

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    @ Ernie Nemeth

    True from the point weíre at now many people will not voluntarily choose freedom. They like the construct of being ruled over. Therefor we can only transit to a system that gives more freedom gradually.

    But that does mean we need to go the right direction and take the right turns from now on whenever & wherever we can. Therefor we do need to know and agree upon what type of societal structure we would like see at the end of the whole process.

    Also some people might be designed to keep wanting/needing more rulership. Some people might also be scared of too much responsibilities or independence, because they think it will be a more egoÔstic self-centered way of living. But I think the contrary effect might also exist. I think that the more responsibility, self-sovereignty each individual has, the more likely they will be empathic towards other people and work together.

    For I think if people live more in balance with themselves & nature (not stressed about trying to pay off debts that are not connected to their karma, not needing to fight against polluted food air, water, corrupt systems etc.) they will have greater awareness of how we all are connected and responsible for each other and thus would automatically help each other more. For thatís, I think also an inborn trait of humans. But one thatís not been rewarded or stimulated the same way as the negative traits in humans and therefor real compassion and empathy in society is harder to find.
    Please donít use the apples of someone elseís tree to satisfy your own thirst. (If you did eat anotherís fruit; have the decency to give some fruit back.)
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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    @ Tiyaira

    First of all also thanks for your post.

    "properly designing ... is superior"

    True proper design is definitively superior.

    "Existing systems have a weakness in that they rely on the strength of character of the people in them, but if the people are corrupted, then that system will fail."

    Well the system is created and sustained by people. So if the people are corrupt, the system will be corrupt. But I do think if the people in charge are corrupt itíll have more influence than if those with less power are corrupt.

    "limitation on wealth and freedom"

    Well, what I actually wanted to say was: that a correct functioning system will create more wealth and stability. Iím not seeing wealth as a limiting factor.

    "mismanagement of wealth in a society leads to destabilizing factors "

    I do understand that mismanagement of wealth leads to destabilizing situations.

    Somehow each country should have a balance between their wealth and capacity and what they are trying to do. If they do not keep this balance in to account more problems are created than there are solved. But for each separate country to achieve the best balance there needs to be good communication between the different countries, I think Ö for each country has its strengths and weaknesses.

    "A system that recognizes true self-sovereignty can overcome societal limitations on freedom (for the individuals that achieve it)."

    The more responsible and independent a person can be, the better. Self sustainable living should be incentivized. But I do not think it is possible yet for each individual to have complete self sovereignty because the awareness of people of their responsibility towards the whole (other people, nature, etc) is still too low.

    "Ease of access is not the same as proper system design."

    Thatís indeed true. Itsís more important that the justice system has proper design. But ease of access is a really important part of creating a society that is more just and at the same time gives more freedom.

    "There will be classism based on character development with the more refined beings achieving self-sovereignty."

    I actually think there should not be a divide. Who would decide about whoís fit for complete sovereignty anyway. What will these decisions be based upon? Intelligence, consciousness, goodness, religious principles. I'm not trusting much in any authority making selections ...

    Maybe letting people voluntarily participate if they are interested and motivated to participate is your best bet for having the people with the highest capacity contribute the most.

    For people who are really not capable of much thought wonít bother to participate in such direct democracy system.

    On the other hand I think it should be accessible enough, so that it does not become a system for the intellectual elite. For theyíre not always the people with the highest consciousness or best intentions towards the whole.

    "This can be overcome with a good system design. Think of the democracy as a ship navigating society in reality through time. If the ship has a "map" and a "navigation system", it can chart a course even when the society is of low consciousness or intelligence and not falter."

    True if we decide in advance the destination that we want to reach and map out how weíre going to get there. Society will build that ship automatically.

    "if the ship were designed in such a way as to "show people how it's done", it might be able to facilitate upliftment through example and inspiration. "

    The problem with that is that the ship still needs to be build. Thus we can not yet show how it is done. At the moment we can only show pictures of the destination. And only when the majority agrees on the destination the ship can be build. That does not mean that some pioneers, who already possess the sailors mentality or those who can explain more about the destination we might choose, can not already uplift and inspire people.

    "more Self-Sustainability & Self-Responsibility, I don't see these suggestions as being feasible or related. They would fail under a dense population load. There are also other possibilities beyond this kind of thinking."

    Anything is feasible if thereís a large enough mass wanting to create it. Yet, this will not be an instant change. It can only be seen as a destination we can choose to sail to. If enough people agree on this, and those in power start taking better actions Iím sure there will be a way in which this can be achieved, that benefits everyone on this planet.

    If you have other ideas on this subject Iíd love to hear.

    "I wouldn't let a conflict resolution system determine law. I see you're looking for ease of access, empathy, and regional scoping."

    I think if the justice system would be more shaped as a resolution system, there would be much less power abuse and corruption within the justice system itself. Direct acces will also prevent the escalation of many conflicts and other situations, thus giving people more justice. For such a resolution system to be a neutral & uncorrupted system it would need to be free & disconnected from the capitalistic system weíre in somehow.

    With empathy I also mean the opposite of the bureaucratic capitalistic technological system weíre in now.

    True a person can fake empathy or so, but thatís not what I mean. Some people are born with high awareness; empathy & intelligence. Such people would be very fit for the job and would be a blessing for such a system.

    And one can also design the system in such a way that if one does not have a good connection with the person solving your case one can choose to be helped by another person Ö That could be part of such a systemís design.

    What do you rely on or would like to rely on when you are faced with serious problems than?

    I do not believe numerology can resolve conflict. But I do think it can give valuable insights in some conflict situations.

    "We can't change existing societal structures ..., but we can build something new"

    Ok, but to built something new you got to know what youíre building, right?
    There needs to be some direction you want to go and destination you want to achieve?

    That's kind of what I'm trying to look for in my threads a destiny we will all want to go to, the type of ship that needs to be build to get there and if possible mappig out the road on how to get there ...

    At the moment our complete freedom does not exist yet, except for in our own internal experience.
    Itís what we noticed with the lockdowns that were so easily imposed upon the masses. All the freedom that was taken from us the last couple of years only shows that the current system was likely not designed ( or is not functioning) with the priorities of harmony & freedom in mind. 


    Last edited by All is one; 26th November 2022 at 19:43.
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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    The first thing that needs to be done is to get over ourselves. The question isn't how do we get to keep what we worked so hard for and ask instead how can we ensure that the least of us are taken care of and can live a full life. It is the poor and the disenfranchised that drive the counter-revolution. They are the reason we even have a class struggle.

    Corporate capitalism is the bane of society. It has to be dismantled. Only governments should be allowed to create deals between them. Each company must have a base and it is that base, that country, that must control its international dealings. There cannot be global companies because in that scenario they can circumvent the laws of every country. A company that ignores the laws of its originating country has committed treason and undermines the interests of that country.

    But if the goal is to have a world government that controls the vassal states, formerly sovereign countries, then ignore this post.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless ó like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    @ Ernie Nemeth
    ďThe first thing that needs to be done is to get over ourselves.Ē

    SELF-IMAGE & COMFORT⟺ NECESSARY CHANGE

    Completely agree. The self-image many people like to uphold is one of the major obstacles for them to dare to think about changing anything. Also a lot of people are comfortable with their level of wealth and would rather continue poisoning themselves & their children than to change their way of life.
    Itís sad to see actually; that people refuse to change their lifestyle, even though at some level they know they & their children are going to pay the price Ö


    GRADUAL CHANGE~COMFORT


    Anyway I also donít think people should be put in more uncomfortable situations Ö Rather
    Quote the change should be in the vision we hold for the future and the direction we take to get there.

    BIG PROBLEMS - NEED FOR FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE

    If we continue the same way, and donít dare to look at the essence of the problems (also in the structures) and how they can be solved, nobodies future will look bright. The system has never completely functioned in the best interest of the planet and its inhabitants, but now itís just way more obvious (with the medical system, the financial system, the environment, corruption etc Ö).

    Right now I think the problems humanity is facing are so big that all the people who still got a brain cell to think know something fundamentally needs to change.


    THE ILLUSION OF HARMONY CREATED BY PROPAGANDA OF MAJOR CORPORATIONS

    True, if the people and corporations with the most money can/will keep destroying any correct functioning of society (the environment, the health of people, people's lives) nothing will change. I think the goal for a global government probably comes from some of the same people that own the biggest companies that are now damaging our world.

    Weíre all confronted in some way with the problems and life sucking energy of those major players in the world that are heading a destructive direction.


    THE POWER OF HUMANITY IN CREATING A BETTER DESTINY & CHANGING DIRECTION

    My ďgoalĒ is different. Those major players have a clear vision of the destiny they would like and how they want to get there. Since Iím of the opinion they will unconsciously create a real hell on earth, if they continue their old plans

    I want to create another vision for the future that will benefit everyone and also has the strength to move us away from the dangerous road weíre on.

    Thus I would like to find solutions for where the major deep rooted problems in humanity come from.
    - Basically I would like to find out what type of societal structure would be beneficial for everyone on the planet (& nature etc).
    - Then I would like to know what systems could be set up to navigate towards such a destination.
    This is because Iím of the opinion that we need new systems if we ever want to get rid of the major (power, health & environment, ...) problems in this world.


    Basically humanity would need to agree on a better destination for their future, choose the ship(s) (systems & structures) they want to build for getting there and the road they want to take.

    Once a large enough part of humanity does this then the destructive direction we're on will disappear in thin air.


    All is one
    Last edited by All is one; 27th November 2022 at 19:22.
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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    Let's not be naive. The majority will never get on board with anything unless it is drummed into their brains on the television and social media. And to persuade the elite to please brainwash the populace into wanting change is useless.

    That is why the best we can do is be ready when the conditions become ripe for positive change.

    The change will come only when free energy is delivered to the doorstep of the masses, and not before.

    We are as magnanimous as the ROI (return on investment) of our energy supply allows.
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 27th November 2022 at 17:39. Reason: corrected abbreviation
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless ó like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: FREEDOM on this planet

    It does not need to be the majority, but a large enough group needs to agree on a better matrix to be able to create it.


    STEPS FOR HUMANITY TO GET OUT OF THE DISTURBING TIMES WE'RE IN

    1) Everyone needs to understand what's going on in the world and what the dangers are (we're getting there)

    2) Protecting ourselves from direct dangers and trying to heal the damage that's already done to ourselves, our loved ones and our surroundings

    3) As much people as possible to come together to invent and agree on a better destination/matrix for those who want to stay human

    Strangely enough the first two parts seem to take off, but the last step seems like an impossibility.

    I wonder why that is?


    PEOPLE UNITING FOR A GOOD CAUSE AN IMPOSSIBILITY?

    Because if I start the conversation about how fear or anger is not going to get us out of trouble, but will have quite the reverse effect people jump on this theory from all sides.

    If I warn the world for the dangers of AI for humanity (which is already more difficult to understand) people from all over the world get it and start talking about it.

    If I point out the importance of staying interconnected and of uniting, everyone agrees.

    But if I bring up the need for people to agree on and focus on a better and different outcome no one, not even the alternatives (except maybe 1 or 2), is willing to put even the smallest effort in this. Though the reasons why this is so important are not so difficult to understand, I thought.

    Rather people seem to be of the opinion that if they all have different ideas for the future and head different directions it will be easier to construct a better future & maybe also personally benefit them more. What happens to the whole is mostly much lower on their list.

    Now I get it. The times we're living in are very disturbing on many levels and things need to be done.


    HONOR TO COURAGEOUS PEOPLE

    And a lot of courageous people are doing the right things and speaking up in the field that they have knowledge about. These people are really doing the right things. May all honor go to each of those heroic souls, because they deserve it.


    REASON FOR LACK OF UNITY: PEOPLE ARE BLOCKED FROM THINKING OUTSIDE OF THE MATRIX

    But it's not because one can not be one of those people that one does not have any influence. If enough people can agree on a different and better destination for humanity that will also have a major influence and if strong enough annihilate the technocratic hell future we're otherwise going to head in to.

    If each person thinks it's no use, than it's just more power for the doom scenario being created and conditions will never ripen for positive change.

    It's almost like there's a mental block for people to really focus on anything outside the matrix the PTB want them to see.

    Thus no large enough group of people is uniting to get to a better direction and the PTB use this lack of focus to their advantage.
    Last edited by All is one; 4th December 2022 at 14:10. Reason: There are enough awake people, they just need to unite more. I want people to focus on connecting more and not on the lack of cooperation of those awake and aware.
    Please donít use the apples of someone elseís tree to satisfy your own thirst. (If you did eat anotherís fruit; have the decency to give some fruit back.)
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