China spying and cyberwarfare

[Ewan]

I would have thought by now that the majority would realise when a country comes up in discussion, and a label like 'evil' or any other negative adjective gets used, the commenter is not talking about the populace of a country but rather its political machinations. Those actions which frequently, and sometimes inevitably, lead to negative results elsewhere.

Now a discussion regarding levels of awarenss of a countries populace, or to how much they have been indoctrinated would be an entirely different conversation. Ultimately there would not be a lot of difference if we ranked them against an imaginary fully aware populace. They would all be a distant joint second place. So it might be a rather fruitless conversation.

I remember when Bush was using a phrase as often as he could about the 'axis of evil' and naming Iran, Iraq, and North Korea as the culprits. I was meanwhile thinking, with a derisive snort, that he should be saying the US, UK and Israel. Did anyone at that time think he was talking about the populace of those countries, or their governments and political ideologies?

Then why are we raising the question here?

[TomKat]

Posted by Vangelo (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Vangelo (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)
The most evil country in the world...

... is the USA.

Really?

Admittedly, the US government has done many horrific things, but for me, they don't compare to some of the things done by the governments of other countries.
coul
Having said that, I see no value in participating in a 'tit for tat' comparing the evil acts of different countries.

Maybe the US should make up for its horrific deeds by nuking the hell out of Beijing?

Really?

I am only responding to state that I don't support your sentiment.

Of course not. But China has been installing police stations in North America to keep an eye on Chinese citizens abroad, and I assume mayors like NYC mayor Eric Adams are being paid off to allow it. I'm probably more pissed at the Democrats than their Chinese paymaster.

[Vangelo]

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Vangelo (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Vangelo (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)
The most evil country in the world...

... is the USA.

Really?

Admittedly, the US government has done many horrific things, but for me, they don't compare to some of the things done by the governments of other countries.
coul
Having said that, I see no value in participating in a 'tit for tat' comparing the evil acts of different countries.

Maybe the US should make up for its horrific deeds by nuking the hell out of Beijing?

Really?

I am only responding to state that I don't support your sentiment.

Of course not. But China has been installing police stations in North America to keep an eye on Chinese citizens abroad, and I assume mayors like NYC mayor Eric Adams are being paid off to allow it. I'm probably more pissed at the Democrats than their Chinese paymaster.

The feeling is mutual but I don't limit my anger to the Democrats. I don't really see a difference between them and the RINOs (Republican's In Name Only).

[Vangelo]

Posted by Ewan (here)
I would have thought by now that the majority would realise when a country comes up in discussion, and a label like 'evil' or any other negative adjective gets used, the commenter is not talking about the populace of a country but rather its political machinations. Those actions which frequently, and sometimes inevitably, lead to negative results elsewhere.

Now a discussion regarding levels of awarenss of a countries populace, or to how much they have been indoctrinated would be an entirely different conversation. Ultimately there would not be a lot of difference if we ranked them against an imaginary fully aware populace. They would all be a distant joint second place. So it might be a rather fruitless conversation.

I remember when Bush was using a phrase as often as he could about the 'axis of evil' and naming Iran, Iraq, and North Korea as the culprits. I was meanwhile thinking, with a derisive snort, that he should be saying the US, UK and Israel. Did anyone at that time think he was talking about the populace of those countries, or their governments and political ideologies?

Then why are we raising the question here?

As always, I find your posts to be well stated, pragmatic, and thoughtful. Thank you.

RE: I would have thought by now that the majority would realise when a country comes up in discussion, and a label like 'evil' or any other negative adjective gets used, the commenter is not talking about the populace of a country but rather its political machinations.

Yes, that is indeed my normal point of view. However, within this thread, there were comments made that lead me to question that presumption and I even posted a request for clarification. No response was given. Looking back at that post, I should have properly quoted the people I was addressing with my question. There is no need to pursue it any further, I think maybe I was being a bit overly sensitive.

RE: Ultimately there would not be a lot of difference if we ranked them against an imaginary fully aware populace. They would all be a distant joint second place. So it might be a rather fruitless conversation.

This is indeed an interesting way to look at the issue and I unfortunately agree with your assessment that the vast majority of the populace in each country would be unaware. The only caveat for me is that I believe more and more every day Americans are beginning to see that our politicians and govt agencies are not to be trusted (as is evidenced by the numbers of people who now question the legitimacy of our election system).

[TomKat]

My frustration with th the sneaky CCP is explained here:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lEEeNYXUTvY

[onawah]

Jimmy Dore ended his recent show about Julian Assange with what is a fair assessment of how little integrity the US government has today, and how little the public seems to be aware of that, although it is beginning to:

Posted by gini (here)
Warmongers CONFRONTED By Journalist At National Press Club Event .dec 9, 2022
During a recent symposium at the National Press Club about the prosecution of Julian Assange, The Grayzone reporter Max Blumenthal asked DC attorney and Assange critic Mark Zaid whether prosecutors should really be depending on testimony from an admitted pedophile and liar like Sigurdur Ingi Thordarson, who has since recanted his allegations, to convict Assange.

Jimmy plays a video of the interaction and then he and Max discuss the weaselly way Zaid attempts to dodge the question and suggests that Assange will get a fair trial in the U.S.----

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EWAV4rK7u9Q

Read Max's work at The Grayzone here: http://thegrayzone.

Posted by Vangelo (here)

Posted by Ewan (here)
I would have thought by now that the majority would realise when a country comes up in discussion, and a label like 'evil' or any other negative adjective gets used, the commenter is not talking about the populace of a country but rather its political machinations. Those actions which frequently, and sometimes inevitably, lead to negative results elsewhere.

Now a discussion regarding levels of awarenss of a countries populace, or to how much they have been indoctrinated would be an entirely different conversation. Ultimately there would not be a lot of difference if we ranked them against an imaginary fully aware populace. They would all be a distant joint second place. So it might be a rather fruitless conversation.

I remember when Bush was using a phrase as often as he could about the 'axis of evil' and naming Iran, Iraq, and North Korea as the culprits. I was meanwhile thinking, with a derisive snort, that he should be saying the US, UK and Israel. Did anyone at that time think he was talking about the populace of those countries, or their governments and political ideologies?

Then why are we raising the question here?

As always, I find your posts to be well stated, pragmatic, and thoughtful. Thank you.

RE: I would have thought by now that the majority would realise when a country comes up in discussion, and a label like 'evil' or any other negative adjective gets used, the commenter is not talking about the populace of a country but rather its political machinations.

Yes, that is indeed my normal point of view. However, within this thread, there were comments made that lead me to question that presumption and I even posted a request for clarification. No response was given. Looking back at that post, I should have properly quoted the people I was addressing with my question. There is no need to pursue it any further, I think maybe I was being a bit overly sensitive.

RE: Ultimately there would not be a lot of difference if we ranked them against an imaginary fully aware populace. They would all be a distant joint second place. So it might be a rather fruitless conversation.

This is indeed an interesting way to look at the issue and I unfortunately agree with your assessment that the vast majority of the populace in each country would be unaware. The only caveat for me is that I believe more and more every day Americans are beginning to see that our politicians and govt agencies are not to be trusted (as is evidenced by the numbers of people who now question the legitimacy of our election system).

[onawah]

You Have to Let it Happen

Posted by onawah (here)
Bumping this thread with some very insightful words of wisdom from Alan Watts, beginning at 13 minutes into the video, about how Democracy inevitably becomes Fascism...
And at 16 minutes in, about why a wise King keeps the Court Fool close by, to remind the King that he too is only human, and not to give himself airs and graces, and to remember that there are forces and domains far beyond his...
And finally, that it is very difficult in our present world to abandon nationality.
(Themes that may also apply to the discussion in the thread "China Spying and Cyberwarfare". )

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=51mBqzhQUGI

[ozmirage]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)
The most evil country in the world...

... is the USA.

_ _ From one perspective, America is the MOST DANGEROUS country. For if our republican form became dominant, and we prospered, it would trigger revolts across the planet, to the dismay of the POWERS THAT BE. So it is vital to stymie America and destroy her reputation, by any means, fair and foul.
_ _ Despite being the only nation with a republican form (no connection with "a republic"), not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define it, its source and origin. Yet all facts are available in the public record, at any county courthouse law library. That is a fantastic victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry.
_ _ Americans are doggedly determined to be arrogant and defensive about their ignorance of law and history, and yet apathetic about learning their own laws. SMH.

[kfm27917]

american Spy balloons

http://www.hisutton.com/US-Navy-CIA-...-Balloons.html

[mountain_jim]

https://twitter.com/JoshMeyerDC/stat...913693697?s=20