+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

  1. Link to Post #21
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    3rd July 2018
    Posts
    4,352
    Thanks
    39,684
    Thanked 33,457 times in 4,332 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    ...

    ... this could be a solution to counter that same very global application being fostered on humanity to keep it on its knees:

    Quote "People will let themselves be led by someone who is in the next level up on the scale. Therefore, all of the gullible souls in the Fear band can be easily influenced and pushed into action by the 1.5 (anger fixation)."--Ruth Minshull (How to choose your people p119)
    Source: http://whale.to/v/tone.html

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Gwin Ru For This Post:

    arwen (25th July 2023), Bill Ryan (13th December 2022), Harmony (25th July 2023), Icare (23rd April 2023), Sue (Ayt) (13th December 2022)

  3. Link to Post #22
    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th July 2015
    Location
    South East England
    Language
    English
    Age
    51
    Posts
    4,138
    Thanks
    25,644
    Thanked 36,189 times in 4,071 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    If you don't think you're influencing anyone then tough luck you are anyway. If you're trying to influence you probably aren't.

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Matthew For This Post:

    arwen (25th July 2023), Bill Ryan (14th December 2022), Harmony (25th July 2023), Icare (23rd April 2023), Sue (Ayt) (13th December 2022)

  5. Link to Post #23
    United States Avalon Member Casey Claar's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th April 2022
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Language
    English
    Age
    58
    Posts
    731
    Thanks
    3,895
    Thanked 6,973 times in 728 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ... Discuss.
    cough-cough... what for?
    Made me laugh.

    It really seemed to me to be one of those paradoxes (or anomalies) that we never discuss at all. It comes a little close, maybe, to being an Emperor's New Clothes type of thing.

    There are zillions of examples all over social media, but let's just take the microcosm of the Avalon forum. Below are some of the issues sometimes fiercely discussed in the last few years.

    The vast majority of posters on these subjects already have fairly (or very) well-set views, and the number of instances of someone saying [something like] "Hey thanks, I see your point of view, you've explained it very well, and I think I've changed my mind" is tiny.
    • Vaccine effectiveness
    • Ivermectin effectiveness as a covid treatment
    • Trump's legacy as US president
    • Biden's legacy as US president
    • QAnon's claims and statements
    • Global warming
    • Ukraine/US vs Donbass/Russia.
    There are many more, but those come to mind immediately.

    What I notice again and again is that exchanges between those with opposing views get nowhere at all. It often comes close to literally being a waste of time.

    So that leads to the question: What's the value of exchanging opinions?

    I might suggest the answer: Much less than we may assume.

    So what's the value of discussing anything at all?

    I think the true value — which is important and significant — actually lies in expanding the nuances of our understanding of issues we broadly already agree with. As a kind of crude metaphor, we're educating one another about geophysics, not arguing about whether the earth is spherical or not. We're way past that point now.

    And here's a very real example, not a metaphor at all. I'm personally as sure as I can be that a lost major civilization, probably a global one, existed prior to about 12,500 years ago. What I am interested in reading about and learning much more about is the ongoing discovery of artifacts and other evidence that may tell us more about what the civilization was like, where and when it flourished, and what eventually became of it.

    And the same for the existence of ETs, UFOs, and off-planet (or maybe interdimensional) civilizations that are interacting with us on Earth. I'm 100% certain this is all very real. But I still want to learn more about the possible details, agendas, history, phenomena, and so on.

    So there's an important distinction that can be made about the kinds of information we're all sharing here every day — and why we're sharing that information at all.

    Here's a thought experiment. We've not had this happen on Avalon yet, but supposing a new member appears who starts advocating some of the aspects of 'woke' culture that I'd suspect many (or most, or maybe all!) of those reading this would consider abhorrent, socially destructive, and maybe even a symptom of a kind of modern mental illness.

    Do we allow them a platform to express their views?

    If your view is 'yes' — then why??
    I will dive in here:

    "So that leads to the question: What's the value of exchanging opinions?"

    Is it opinions we are really sharing? I would suggest we are sharing much more than this, something far more intimate, either knowingly or unknowingly. We are sharing ourself. The value of this comes in the doing. Doesn't it? In the process of this we refine ourselves. It is quite the cooking process, isn't it? But the refinement can somewhat easily be seen and understood by considering first a more feral kind of man and situating this alongside any one of us, anyone who has learned how to express themselves, share of themselves, including the exchange of raw information. The value is that through this we evolve, both as an individual and as a species.

    Quote "I think the true value — which is important and significant — actually lies in expanding the nuances of our understanding of issues we broadly already agree with. As a kind of crude metaphor, we're educating one another about geophysics, not arguing about whether the earth is spherical or not. We're way past that point now."
    I would go significantly further.

    I think we learn - grow - very little, relatively speaking, in a petrie dish of those we are already in agreement with. I do agree, as you have said, Bill, that what can be learned are ever greater nuances and intricacies, however only of a SINGLE color, rather than all color. I think the really important thing we are all learning is not a view, or even spectrum views, but how to allow these to peacefully coexist. How to not go to war against 'other' views, nor run from, segregate, demonize, marginalize or omit them. This is what I think, as a species we are at the cusp of learning. How to do this. How to live, breathe, think and behave in harmony with ALL that is. It is a process, though, and beginning with a solid basis in understanding ourself, even deep down into all those nuances is a good, intelligent and profound start. The immanent question is, how will this progress? Does a sports team, as an example, ever get any better playing against itself? - ( answer : it doesn't ).

    Quote "Here's a thought experiment. We've not had this happen on Avalon yet, but supposing a new member appears who starts advocating some of the aspects of 'woke' culture that I'd suspect many (or most, or maybe all!) of those reading this would consider abhorrent, socially destructive, and maybe even a symptom of a kind of modern mental illness.

    Do we allow them a platform to express their views?

    If your view is 'yes' — then why??"
    My answer would be yes.

    Not just yes but a resounding yes.

    There really is room enough for everyone. Understanding our own processes is one thing, but it is only a start. Evolving ourselves to truly ( and by this I mean accurately ) understand someone else, their processes, where they are in their own unfoldment is another. As is not interfering or impeding upon that. One very large reason we are seeing what we are in the world at present, is that good people, positively oriented people are inclining toward negative thought, action and behavior. The [ + ] orientation is one of inclusion, allowance, and non-infringement upon free-will. It is the [ - ] orientation that fights, dominates, disallows and infringes. Those who have chosen the [ + ] orientation, and in my estimation this is 92+% of the local population have to focus more into the fact of their choice and spend more of their time actively developing it.

    This indeed is what will turn the tides. ( clearly, yes? ).

    Practice is required. So, yes, open the stage.

    Always trust in the potential of an open and pure heart. <-- let Avalon be where this is developed.

    Nothing can overrun or overturn this. Save ourselves.

    Is our love strong enough?

    Let's run the LIVE test.
    "Love is what is left when you let go of everything you no longer need." —Raj

  6. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Casey Claar For This Post:

    arwen (25th July 2023), Bill Ryan (14th December 2022), edina (20th December 2022), Harmony (25th July 2023), Icare (23rd April 2023), Pam (25th July 2023), Sue (Ayt) (14th December 2022), T Smith (14th December 2022)

  7. Link to Post #24
    Avalon Member Digit's Avatar
    Join Date
    18th April 2023
    Location
    Earth, Sol star system, for now.
    Language
    netspeak
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 65 times in 11 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    Jumping straight in to offer initial response to:

    Quote Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    ... Discuss.
    Perhaps "rarely", but not never.
    So there's a chance.

    However, perhaps it's better to approach with some kind of epistemological method, than reliance on mere guesstimation of statistical chance.

    Maybe I'm yet to discover an even better method. Or even just need to better practice.

    I've still a long way to go at reliably deploying a warm, inviting, curiosity-evoking version of the socratic method. But I think it's good to keep trying to develop. Any other ideas how?

    Also, which social media?

    I suspect one can find different results, on, say, diaspora than mastodon. Different results on GNU Social compared to Zot. And even differences between different servers in the same protocols, e.g. catcatnya (mastodon fork with long form) compared to any more w.h.o. censorship adherent mastodon servers. And between anything of the fediverse and corporate social media. ... I'm just presuming with that last one... I don't do corporate social media. I just presume it's a very high probability of low caliber mind apertures among those who stayed on The Corporation's casino-like addictive datamining & censorship sites.

    It's fun to seek out different perspectives. Approach them with your mind open, and more likely to garner similar in return.

    [Edit:
    PS: regarding:
    Quote
    • Vaccine effectiveness
    • Ivermectin effectiveness as a covid treatment
    • Trump's legacy as US president
    • Biden's legacy as US president
    • QAnon's claims and statements
    • Global warming
    • Ukraine/US vs Donbass/Russia.
    I've expanded my conceptions of all of these, learned much from others, and usually, it goes unsaid, the learning and delving into more nuance, continuing after whatever helpful pointers/seeds/clues/links shared in some post on the fediverse.

    So keep offering good offerings. You may never know how many storms you whip up, by flapping your butterfly wings. ]
    Last edited by Digit; 23rd April 2023 at 18:30.
    If ignorance is bliss, give me agony. (&, The ignorance that dies, is not you.)
    Time flies when you’re not in pain or prison. We are psychenauts, and we are not afraid.
    Educate yourself so you may educate others.

  8. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Digit For This Post:

    Akasha (30th August 2023), arwen (25th July 2023), Bill Ryan (23rd April 2023), Harmony (25th July 2023), Icare (23rd April 2023), Miller (25th July 2023), Pam (25th July 2023), Sue (Ayt) (25th April 2023), Tintin (25th July 2023)

  9. Link to Post #25
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Posts
    945
    Thanks
    3,830
    Thanked 4,531 times in 811 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    One of the reasons that social media may not be effective at changing people's minds is that it can be a echo chamber, where people are exposed primarily to views and opinions that align with their own. This can create a biased and skewed view of reality, and it may make it difficult for people to consider alternative perspectives. Additionally, people may be more likely to engage with content on social media that confirms their existing beliefs, rather than content that challenges or contradicts those beliefs.

    Chat GPT
    I don't fault what you have posted but from my point of view .... people seldom change their current indoctrination!

    I was a .... well lets say 'mod' on a well known forum and I near never saw members 'change their mind' because of the posts created by other members!

    Never happened. (<< and that is over years)

    The alternative community will cling on to an idea or concept (disregarding most all negative information to their held belief) as badly as the mass of people!

    There isn't really much of a distinction between the mass and the alternative (<< sorry I know how that reads ... but it would seem to be correct? I am happy to be wrong!)
    Normal..!

  10. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to lake For This Post:

    arwen (25th July 2023), Bill Ryan (23rd April 2023), Harmony (25th July 2023), Icare (23rd April 2023), Miller (25th July 2023), Pam (25th July 2023), Tintin (25th July 2023)

  11. Link to Post #26
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,268
    Thanks
    208,959
    Thanked 457,528 times in 32,788 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.


  12. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    arwen (25th July 2023), avid (26th July 2023), Harmony (25th July 2023), Mark (Star Mariner) (25th July 2023), Matthew (25th July 2023), Miller (25th July 2023), Pam (25th July 2023), Tintin (25th July 2023), Yoda (25th July 2023)

  13. Link to Post #27
    Australia Moderator Harmony's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th May 2020
    Language
    English
    Posts
    2,610
    Thanks
    92,100
    Thanked 18,754 times in 2,614 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    My observation is people posting on PA like to offer information for others to contemplate, join dots or maybe delete them thus forming a bigger picture of what is going on around us. Rather than changing minds I think our overview evolves. Adding more understanding of how things unfold, which is really quite complex, sometimes helps us develop compassion and love as well.



    If we can understand how things happen, we have the power to change them or not repeat them again. I really like perusing new ideas or information, just putting them on the back burner for later where they often fit in the puzzle of life somewhere.

  14. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Harmony For This Post:

    Akasha (30th August 2023), arwen (25th July 2023), avid (26th July 2023), Bill Ryan (25th July 2023), Delight (25th July 2023), Ernie Nemeth (25th July 2023), Ewan (25th July 2023), Isserley (25th July 2023), JackMcThorn (25th July 2023), Mark (Star Mariner) (25th July 2023), Matthew (25th July 2023), Tintin (25th July 2023)

  15. Link to Post #28
    South Africa Avalon Member arwen's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th December 2014
    Posts
    655
    Thanks
    4,444
    Thanked 6,493 times in 653 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    I remember clearly the early days of the Usenet. 1994 - 1995 for me.

    I remember engaging in exciting discussion with people all over the world, using the Deja News bulletins boards to find areas of mutual interest.

    I remember the AMAZING level of high quality conversations. The early pioneers were those kinds of people. Curious, open to debate, new ideas, civil.

    Then came the masses. Then came the World Wide Web. Then came trolls and spam and bots to disrupt conversations and amplify emotions. Then came social media to corral the anarchic Usenet groups into controllable echo chambers. Then came intelligence agency and government covert influence campaigns with massive budgets.

    So given all that, nope, mostly nobody will change anyone's mind on anything unless they are all mutually agreed to share ideas and learn from each other.

    The Internet was and has been such a magnificent gift - in the beginning, it lead to exponential evolution in human communication. It honestly worked better in terms of exchange of ideas and opinions and useful discourse back in the days of the Usenet. Social Media was deliberately structured in my opinion to default to the lowest common denominator. But one can still use it strategically to enjoy the original benefit - filtering out noise and antagonists and tuning into what is valuable.

    Avalon is thus an oasis, reminiscent of the old Usenet, where quality conversations on a variety of really interesting topics take place. Disruptions are occasional, and able to be managed BECAUSE of the Moderators, to whom we all owe a great gratitude and appreciation for their time.

    In my humble opinion. You do not have to agree with me.
    Last edited by arwen; 25th July 2023 at 16:14.

  16. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to arwen For This Post:

    Akasha (30th August 2023), Bill Ryan (26th July 2023), Delight (25th July 2023), Ewan (25th July 2023), Harmony (26th July 2023), Matthew (25th July 2023), Miller (25th July 2023), triquetra (30th August 2023)

  17. Link to Post #29
    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th July 2015
    Location
    South East England
    Language
    English
    Age
    51
    Posts
    4,138
    Thanks
    25,644
    Thanked 36,189 times in 4,071 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it read and accept your tweet deep into its soul. Social media is a useful echo chamber because news travels fast, it's digested across a wide demography and feedback is near instantaneous. It's a fantastic echo chamber, ...so useful! Is anyone influenced by anything? Other than the bombardment of advertising, trash tv and state fear? I'm not sure. More than five years ago I guess, but those who are transformed didn't transform by me giving them a 10 minute rant monologue about virus theory vs 5G. Their trust was broken, it had little to do with me.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Matthew For This Post:

    Akasha (30th August 2023), arwen (25th July 2023), Bill Ryan (26th July 2023), Harmony (26th July 2023), Miller (25th July 2023)

  19. Link to Post #30
    Avalon Member triquetra's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd February 2015
    Posts
    350
    Thanks
    224
    Thanked 1,631 times in 335 posts

    Default Re: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.

    The difference is like navigating a hall of mirrors alone, compared with navigating a labyrinth together with everyone of a like mind to your own across the entire world.

    Everyone has taken themselves up with the hall of mirrors, caught up in the fast moving bouncing of light that is over and over again just a reflection of themselves, each direction looking equally viable as the last.

    Few have remembered that in places like Avalon, you CAN navigate the labyrinth (and even the abyss) through what you have learned from your comrades as you work together. Even as some of us have found dead ends, we are able to communicate them to one another to better find our way together.

    Maybe most people on Earth needed to become even more lost before they could find themselves again through cooperative discussion, rather than freezing themselves in place, arguing (to themselves) that their determined path through the hall of mirrors is the right one. When a social network is really just a way of funnelling data to the company that runs the network, and interacting with others is just an illusion in order to reinforce the ego and generate even more data for the company in your thrashing about, that's all that can really happen.

  20. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to triquetra For This Post:

    Akasha (30th August 2023), Bill Ryan (30th August 2023), Delight (30th August 2023), Harmony (30th August 2023), pabranno (30th August 2023), Vangelo (30th August 2023)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts