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Thread: WHY space colonization is so vital

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    In case you're concerned about money - that's a symptom of money madness. To colonize outer space will require the abandonment of money madness and its limitations.

    The money does not exist.
    https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
    Search report for "currency in circulation"
    (approx. 2 trillion dollar bills are in circulation)

    Even the promise of space colonization and exploitation is skewed by money madness. This site shows over 600,000 asteroids listed with “economic value” denominated in trillions and quadrillions of “dollars.”
    http://www.asterank.com/

    What if an entrepreneur (or a group of billionaires) walked into the biggest bank in the world, and said, “I would like to borrow 100 trillion dollars to be used to mine asteroids whose net worth is 40 quadrillion dollars, and gladly pay you ten percent interest per year....”

    Can not happen.
    The money does not exist.
    (For CONgress to authorize more "dollar bills" it would have to "borrow" them into existence, via deficits. Yeah, insane.)

    This is also the problem with usury, the abomination. Usury is mathematically unsustainable in a finite money token system due to the exponential equation used for compound interest. Over the long term, one needs an infinite money supply. That is not possible, thus a portion of debtors must default because enough money never existed to pay all outstanding usury (principal and interest). In short, usury was and is a scam to rob people, which explains why it was denounced for “only” 3500 years and proscribed by every religion that I checked.

    SO any objections about "cost in money" are based on insanity. Ditto, for "return on investment."

    In reality, labor multiplied by tools and machines is what generates the surplus needed to sustain us. Once freed of the limitations of money madness, we might see some real progress in colonizing the up and out.

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by Tyy1907 (here)
    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    We should fix the human condition.

    Space colonisation would be regarded as a spreading cancer, under current management and conditioning.


    It would fix the problems here on earth too. We're trashing the planet, but the trashers are the very same people who are trying to sell the idea that we're screwed because there are too many useless eaters. Who created useless eaters ? They did. We can fix all this, but not until we get them out of the bloody way, at the very least.

    They just don't want to change the things that need to be changed to make living on this planet actually work well. They want to continue to be spiritually ignorant selfish idiots living in a firm belief that they can always get away with that as long it's only a few of them being such toxic vandalistic litter louts.

    That is SO ass backwards. If there's any culling to be done it's very obvious where to start. They know that too, that's why they work so hard to make the rest of too confused and stupid the figure it out.
    Here here

    This is what could be thought of as the human dilemma! Who are these UNELECTED globalists anyway? What or who gave them the right infiltrate our world and impose THEIR ways on us?

    In a sense, through our collective weakness, we were taken over.

    This speaks to what can happen when INTERLOPERS infiltrate a society and poison it by imposing materialistic GODLESS ideologies devoid of Love or Compassion. Installing Authoritarian governments thar rule by fear.

    That being said it's still not too late to recall, invite, call on the Highest Source of all that is good, our true nature's, for help. Just as we help a brother in need, the Divine CAN and in fact ARE coming to our rescue. Their power truly comes from our intentions for something better.
    "Cancer"?
    If more abundant life is cancer, and sterile universe is not, bring on the big "C".
    Only humans can significantly "thicken" the life bearing volume of a finite surface area on a planet like Earth - and in outer space.
    Mother Nature's best attempts are trees and beavers.

    "Help"?
    I doubt big "G" would interfere. If He gave us "free will" any interference is a violation of that gift.
    And if one believes in scripture, Ezekiel 18:13 KJV pretty much condemns the "faithful" as "dead men walking" if they have personal, interest bearing bank accounts (Even Jesus whipped the usurers out of the temple).

    PUNK AMISH
    Once the production of new colonies outstrips the population growth of humans, there will be plenty of "empties". Any like minded group could commission one and surf gravity to a new orbit. Would be interesting to see the results after a few generations.


    MANY EARTHS
    Surface area of Earth: 510,072,000 km2 (196,940,000 sq mi), or one “Terrestrial” or Terr.
    . . .
    An “Island Three” O’Neill dual cylinder space habitat has an equivalent of 0.0021 Terrestrials, in surface area. (If subdivided into concentric cylindrical decks)
    . . .
    To reach one Terrestrial, 475 space habitats would need to be constructed. If the production cycle was 20 years per habitat, and each habitat built another, it would only take 9 cycles or 180 years (9 x 20 years).
    If we started building Colony One in 2040 - - - -

    2040: 0
    2060: 1
    2080: 3
    2100: 7
    2120: 15
    2140: 31
    2160: 63
    2180: 127
    2200: 255
    2220: 511 <<1.07 Terrs.
    2240: 1023 <2.14 Terrs.
    2260: 2047 <4.38 Terrs.
    2280: 4095 <8.76 Terrs.
    . . .
    3000: 2.815 e+14 < 5.911 e+11 Terrs (0.591 Trillion Terrs)
    4000: 3.169 e+29 < 1.331 e+27 Terrs (3.169 Octillion Terrs)

    The obvious point is that colonizing space via orbiting habitats is far more efficient and practical than seeking equivalent terrestrial planets, or terraforming planets in our own solar system.
    Big G

    This is precisely why requests must be made for an intervention, Because freewill will not be violated. But with an invitation, a yearning, a conviction to want what is in fact ours to begin with, directed to Creator, will be acted upon. You can take this to the bank.

    Divine warnings are being issued about our safety. Do we have ears to hear them.

    "They will deceive even the very elect,"
    "Without the human request, nothing will happen."

    "This must never be forgotten, that the human has the power to prevail."

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    ASTEROIDS R US

    Scientists think the M-type (metallic) asteroid 16 Psyche is comprised mostly of metallic iron and nickel similar to Earth’s core.
    https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroi...yche/in-depth/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16_Psyche
    16 Psyche (asteroid) mass : (2.23±0.36)×10^19 kg

    From this one asteroid, one could build 546,256,494,080 battleships of the Iowa Class.
    IOWA class battleship weighs 45,000 tons (40,823,313.3 kg, or 40,823 metric tonnes)

    {Of course, we’d rather build autonomous space colonies, instead of armored dreadnoughts in space.}
    [An O’Neill cylinder 5 miles x 20 miles, 1304 decks, holding approx. 10.36 million crew.
    Massing 26,742 megatonnes per colony]
    ONE ASTEROID could be the source of an
    Estimated 833,895 space colonies

    Hosting population of 8.637E+12 (8.637 trillions)

    Surface area equivalent to 877 Earths

    THAT'S JUST FROM ONE ASTEROID.

    http://www.asterank.com/

    But we have plenty of candidates that are closer to home - - -
    It is currently estimated that there are about 1,000 Earth-crossing asteroids larger than 1 km (0.6 mile). Just liberally sprinkle with autonomous, self replicating factory scouts, and, in time, have a "round up" of finished products and materials.

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    I find it odd, that there are so many who object to engineering a multitude of habitats that can vastly exceed the habitat capacity of the Earth. Isn't more abundant life the goal of life?

    Remember, environmental preservation is suicidal. We need environmental amplification - vastly increasing the life bearing volume of Earth - and of outer space.

    What is objectionable about converting raw materials (outside Earth), and "free" sunlight into habitats and vivariums hosting an abundance of life ?

    Frankly, once there is a significant amount of habitat in orbit around the sun, planets, and moons, Earth has an "insurance policy" in the event of a terrestrial calamity. There will be plenty of sources to restock any population that has been impacted.

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    Orbis Oceanus

    = = = =
    Imagine, if you will, living within an ocean, but not getting wet. If you could look, with X-Ray eyes, you would see an ocean in all directions. This fantastic vision is how life is sustained within our orbiting vivarium, a giant habitat in outer space.

    This anthropogenic earth like environment contains multitudes of climates, topographies, and oceans, in nested cylinders, all spinning to impart that essential feeling of weight from gravity.

    The outermost shell is the grand ocean, spinning at one G. The ocean shell provides the ideal shield from beta particles, cosmic rays, decelerates hypervelocity micrometeoroids, plugs holes with ice, and provides habitat for a multitude of aquatic life... oh, and is a reservoir for the colony’s water supply. The ocean is 10 kilometers deep, holding 625,176,938 cu km. (The earth’s oceans, seas, and bays hold 1,338,000,000 cu km - a little over twice that of the sky ocean in one cylinder.)

    Life in the mothership is a heady mix of activity. Our mission is simple - more abundant life. We expand habitat - of all life. We tend to wildlife and its habitat, we have food production, and we have human habitat, all within a spinning cylinder 1000 km in radius and 10,000 km long (621.3 mi in radius x 6213.7 mi).

    If you only had human habitat shells, the total surface area would be that of 2,020 earths. Of course, we don’t human format the whole vessel. Large volumes are reserved for varied climates, ecologies, and wildlife habitats, to support life in almost infinite diverse combinations. Still, with the potential for 2020 earths per cylinder, the wisdom in building titanic orbital habitats instead of terraforming planets and moons is obvious.

    Ironic that the ancient futurists and science fiction writers had not imagined this destiny for Terran life - and its slow, steady migration across the galaxy.

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    = = = =
    EXOTIC MATERIALS
    = = = =

    NEW SUPER MATERIAL
    Linear acetylenic carbon... a sci-fi author's dream material
    - - -
    Carbyne chains have been claimed to be the strongest material known per density. Calculations indicate that carbyne’s specific tensile strength (strength divided by density) of 6.0–7.5×107 N·m/kg beats
    • graphene (4.7–5.5×107 N·m/kg),
    • carbon nanotubes (4.3–5.0×107 N·m/kg), and
    • diamond (2.5–6.5×107 N·m/kg).
    Its specific modulus (Young's Modulus divided by density) of around 109 N·m/kg is also double that of graphene, which is around 4.5×108 N·m/kg.

    Stretching carbyne 10% alters its electronic band gap from 3.2 to 4.4 eV. Outfitted with molecular handles at chain's ends, it can also be twisted to alter its band gap. With a 90-degree end-to-end rotation, it becomes a magnetic semiconductor just by stretching the material by 10% and finally, when twisted by 90°, carbyne also turns into a magnetic semiconductor.

    Carbyne chains can take on side molecules that may make the chains suitable for energy and hydrogen storage.

    The material is stable at room temperature, largely resisting crosslinks with nearby chains. The rods' stiffness prevents them from coming together in a second location, at least at room temperature.

    https://futurism.com/first-direct-pr...gest-material/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_acetylenic_carbon
    = = = =


    :-:-: Metallic Hydrogen :-:-:

    Potential Solution for Spaceflight
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...=facebook-post
    https://www.inverse.com/article/2696...ogen-100-years


    Scientists created the metallic hydrogen by pressurizing a hydrogen sample to more pounds per square inch than exists at the center of the Earth. This broke the molecule down from its solid state and allowed the particles to dissociate into atomic hydrogen.

    Metallic hydrogen could potentially enable rockets to get into orbit in a single stage, even allowing humans to explore the outer planets. Metallic hydrogen is predicted to be "metastable" — meaning if you make it at a very high pressure then release it, it'll stay at that pressure. A diamond, for example, is a metastable form of graphite. If you take graphite, pressurize it, then heat it, it becomes a diamond; if you take the pressure off, it's still a diamond. But if you heat it again, it will revert back to graphite.

    Metallic hydrogen has also been predicted to be a high- or possibly room-temperature superconductor. There are no other known room-temperature superconductors in existence, meaning the applications are immense — particularly for the electric grid, which suffers for energy lost through heat dissipation. It could also facilitate magnetic levitation for futuristic high-speed trains; substantially improve performance of electric cars; and revolutionize the way energy is produced and stored.

    = = = =
    (Mag-lev catapults could also drastically cut the cost for vehicle launches into orbit)

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    RADs

    COSMIC SHIELDING
    Though space habitats are often shown with large expanses of transparent shells, it is highly unlikely.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...om_cosmic_rays
    Several strategies are being studied for ameliorating the effects of cosmic radiation hazard for planned human interplanetary spaceflight:
    _ _ Spacecraft can be constructed out of hydrogen-rich plastics, rather than aluminium.

    What's wrong with metals?
    Secondary radiation.

    Radiation reference:
    http://www.clavius.org/envradintro.html
    Beta particles are very small and can penetrate centimeters into the body. But luckily they're too small to cause much damage if they hit anything. But there's a special problem here. When beta particles hit large atoms, the impact causes those atoms to give off x-rays. Metal atoms are usually quite heavy, and so are especially susceptible to this kind of re-radiation which is known by its German name "Bremsstrahlung". In fact, this is how x-rays are produced intentionally for medical applications.

    The best materials to shield against beta particles have lots of hydrogen atoms in them. Hydrogen atoms are light, and so absorb the particles without giving off x-rays. Plain old water works very well. In fact, 4 inches (10 centimeters) of water will block almost all background beta particles.

    Surrounding a space vehicle with a shell filled with water makes a lot of sense. Plus it can be part of the dynamic equilibrium system that compensates for mass moving within the spinning vehicle.

    SPIN DIZZY
    The instability - or rather the tendency to reorient for the minimum kinetic rotational energy for a fixed angular momentum (this being the maximal-inertia axis) - becomes a problem if the material inside the rotating cylinder can move around. And if there are people living inside the habitat, they will move around and they will move things around, too.

    The height to width ratio of the rotating cylindrical space habitat should be 2.45 or less. (Or height = 4.9 x radius)

    For a colony with a 5 mile diameter, the maximum height of the cylinder should not exceed 12.25 miles. Therefore a 20 mile long colony would have to be subdivided into at least two 10 mile long cylinders. If these cylinders are spun in opposite directions, that would dampen coriolis forces.

    It is generally believed that at 2 rpm or less, no adverse effects from the Coriolis forces will occur. At 2 RPM, to generate 1.0g, you need a minimum radius of 733.1 ft (223.5m). Any smaller radius at 2 RPM, will generate lesser G forces. And larger radii require lower RPM - the bigger the better - to prevent "spin dizziness."

    Bizarre behavior of rotating bodies in zero-G.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VPfZ_XzisU

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    A little informed commentary as to why Musk et al are looking at colonizing space.
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Ongoing Disaster | Q and A
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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    One explanation for the LACK OF INTEREST in space colonization by national governments (and the banksters that run them) - - -
    USURY cannot operate in an autonomous, self sufficient space colony. Nor can money madness.

    What’s wrong with usury? Other than it’s mathematically unsustainable in a finite money token system, requires an infinite money token supply due to the exponential equation used for calculating compound interest, and proscribed as an abomination for “only” 3500 years - nothing really. (Sarcasm off)
    Usury is a scam, derived from applying the concept of “natural increase” - the ancients’ rate of return on investment - to money. Since money is a dead thing and does not reproduce, the whole premise of usury is built upon a connivance and fraud. As long as the debtor cannot create the money token, the demands of usury will cause a proportion of debtors to default and lose their collateral, simply because enough money never can exist for all to repay their debts. In short, usury is a scam to cheat and rob, and protected by every government (usually in hock to those same usurers).

    Restating: the function of any medium of exchange is to facilitate trade beyond simple barter. Whatever is used as that medium basically passes an equitable value to a future trade, thus all parties are satisfied. (If the value was inequitable, someone would be cheated) And when those who generate the goods and services (labor and industry) do not also generate the money tokens used to acquire their products, they're being victimized by those who DO.

    Once in orbit, in a self sufficient habitat, utilizing "free" power from Sol, there's nothing to "buy" with money. All that is available for trade is that which is generated within the colony, itself. Anything shipped from a gravity well like Earth or from a distant colony, will involve either a large amount of resources (fuel) or a large amount of time (from "surfing gravity" via the Interplanetary Transport Network).

    In short, the prosperity of the colony is totally dependent upon the surplus goods and services it generates, equitably traded and enjoyed. There's no way bankers can take a skim of that!

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    Hans Rosling - (27 July 1948 – 7 February 2017) was a Swedish physician, academic and public speaker.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Rosling

    Hans Rosling has several talks online before his passing in 2o17. I selected one of them for your perusal, but I recommend a quick search to reveal his other talks [They have been around for a while[years]].

    In the video I selected he discusses what is happening with the world population and the pace for the next century. The alarmist mentality of population growth is unfounded, according to him.

    Why the world population won’t exceed 11 billion [Part 5 of 6 - 17 minutes]:

    Irishness is not primarily a question of birth or blood or language; it is the condition of being involved in the Irish situation, and usually of being mauled by it. ~ Conor C. O'Brien [1917-2oo8]

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
    Hans Rosling - (27 July 1948 – 7 February 2017) was a Swedish physician, academic and public speaker.
    Why the world population won’t exceed 11 billion...
    I can't determine if he's blind, an apologist for socialism, or a disinformation agent.
    FACTS that dispute his conclusions:
    [] Socialist "paradises" are exhibiting substantial drops in birthrates, and some, like Russia and Ukraine, have dipped into NEGATIVE population growth.
    It has nothing to do with relative prosperity, or development. And China's 1 child policy has really caused havoc, due to a preference for male children (to better support the parents).

    [] NON-socialist countries (and Islamic countries) have a much higher birthrate, regardless of relative prosperity (see: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, etc.). And they're exporting their "surplus" population to (guess where?) "socialist paradises." In many cases, the immigrants are disguising the genocidal drop in fertility.
    [SEE: "Graying of Europe"]

    Before "glorious" socialism, security in old age was dependent upon one's family or private charity. So po' folk had plenty of children, to ease the burden for their eventual care. Along comes socialism, with the allure of "taxing other people's children" for your retirement, and whammo - bammo. Birthrates dropped. Plus, the socialist tax burden has pushed all adults into the workforce, which means women of childbearing years are discouraged from having "expensive" child(ren) - especially when day care can eat up half a day's salary. Ironically, in the "evil" pre-socialist days, a single working man could support a wife to stay at home and care for their child(ren).

    Well, the "bill" has come due - the growth rate of recipients is far outstripping the growth rate of donors (taxpayers). At this time, in the USA, there are less than TWO taxpayers per recipient. When that drops to less than ONE taxpayer per recipient, what do you think will happen?
    [] Recipient riots? -or-
    [] Taxpayer revolts?
    Either one is nasty.
    And when the socialist paradises are overrun with non-socialists, wonder what will happen then?
    The future belongs to the descendants. Fail to make enough, and your neighbors enjoy the posterity your ancestors fought to bestow on you.

    SOME REFERENCE DATA - - -

    BIOWAR Population Challenge
    Who will make the future descendants?
    =:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
    ANNUAL POPULATION GROWTH RATE

    Lithuania . . . -1.63%
    Latvia . . . . . -1.18%
    Romania . . . -0.79%
    Portugal . . . -0.45%
    Spain . . . . . -0.21%
    Japan . . . . . -0.12%
    = = = = = = = = = =
    Belarus - - - - 0.01%
    Poland - - - - - 0.02%
    Russia - - - - - 0.04%
    Germany - - - 0.06%
    Italy - - - - - - - 0.07%
    Cuba- - - - - - - 0.14%
    Ireland - - - - - 0.31%
    Netherlands - - 0.35%
    Denmark - - - - 0.42%
    France - - - - - -0.45% (under one half world avg)
    UK - - - - - - - -0.63%
    United States - 0.75%
    Canada - - - - -1.04%
    Switzerland - -1.16%
    WORLD AVG 1.18% <<<<
    Mexico - - - - - 1.37%
    Israel - - - - - - -1.66%
    Turkey - - - - - -1.69%
    Guatemala - - - 2.08%
    Pakistan - - - - -2.11%
    Saudi Arabia - - 2.32% (double world avg)
    Yemen - - - - - - 2.52%
    Nigeria - - - - - - 2.67%
    Palestine - - - - - 2.75%
    Afghanistan - - -3.02%
    Jordan - - - - - - -3.06%
    Iraq - - - - - - - - -3.31%
    Niger - - - - - - - 4.00% (triple world avg)
    Kuwait - - - - - - 4.81% (quadruple world avg)
    Lebanon - - - - - 5.99%
    Oman - - - - - - - 8.45% (7 times world avg)
    SOURCE:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...on_growth_rate
    UN 2010-2015 column data
    – – – – – –

    Population doubling (in Years)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170814...y%20Nation.pdf

    RUSSIA : NPG
    UKRAINE : NPG
    GREECE : ZPG
    DENMARK : 990 years
    AUSTRIA : 990 years
    POLAND : 573 years
    U.K. : 433 years
    FRANCE : 204 years
    CANADA : 127 years
    USA : 116 years
    AUSTRALIA : 100 years
    KOREA, S : 75 years
    CHINA : 67 years
    TURKEY : 43 years
    KOREA, N : 39 years
    INDIA : 36 years (1.2 billion to 2.4 billion in 2058!)
    MEXICO : 32 years
    TANZANIA : 23 years
    NIGERIA : 23 years
    SAUDI ARABIA : 23 years
    LIBERIA : 22 years
    WEST BANK : 21 years
    NIGER : 21 years
    : : : : : : : : : : : :

    The total fertility rate at replacement is 2.33 children per woman. (23.3 per thousand)
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...elds/2054.html
    .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
    Japan . . . . . 7.8 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Canada . . . 10.3 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Russia . . . . 11.3 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Australia . . 12.1 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Norway . . . 12.2 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    China . . . . .12.4 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    USA . . . . . .12.5 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Iran . . . . . . 17.8 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Mexico . . . 18.5 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    - - - not replacing ^^^^^^^^
    Iraq . . . . . . 30.9 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Afghanistan 38.3 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Uganda . . . 43.4 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)
    Niger . . . . . 44.8 births/1,000 population (2016 est.)

    : : : : : : : : : : : :
    YEARS TO DOUBLE POPULATION (by nation)
    https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Download...rd/Population/

    WORLD : 1.18 % (60 year doubling)
    USA : 0.75% (93 year doubling)
    Mexico : 1.37% (51 year doubling)
    . . .
    Lebanon . . . 5.99% . . . 11.7 years
    Kuwait . . . . 4.81% . . . 14.5 years
    Niger. . . . . . 4.00% . . . 17.5 years
    Iraq . . . . . . . 3.31% . . . 21.1 years
    Uganda . . . . 3.27% . . . 21.4 years
    Tanzania. . . . 3.16% . . . 22.1 years
    Pakistan . . . . 2.11% . . . 33.2 years
    India . . . . . . .1.26% . . . 55.6 years
    Iran . . . . . . . .1.27% . . . 55.2 years
    Indonesia. . . .1.28% . . . 54.7 years
    Japan . . . . . . -0.12% . . . 0.0 years
    Russia . . . . . . 0.04% . .1,666.7 years
    Poland . . . . . 0.02% . . 3,684.2 years
    Ireland . . . . . 0.31% . . . 228.8 years
    Denmark . . . 0.42% . . . 166.3 years
    Latvia . . . . .-1.18 % . . . 0.0 years
    Lithuania . . -1.63 %. . . 0.0 years
    Norway . . . . 1.27 %. . . 55.3 years
    Sweden . . . . 0.83 %. . . 84.4 years
    UK . . . . . . . 0.63 %. . . 111.5 years
    Portugal . . . -0.45 %. . . 0.0 years
    Serbia . . . . . -0.47 %. . . 0.0 years
    Slovenia . . . 0.15 %. . . 479.5 years
    Spain . . . . . -0.21 %. . . 0.0 years
    Belgium. . . . 0.66 %. . . 105.4 years
    France . . . . . 0.45 %. . . 155.6 years
    Germany . . . 0.06 %. . . 1,111.1 years
    Cuba. . . . . . .0.14 %. . . 486.1 years
    Haiti . . . . . . 1.38 %. . . 50.9 years
    Dominican
    Republic . . .1.24 %. . . 56.7 years
    Jamaica. . . . 0.38 %. . . 186.2 years
    Brazil. . . . . 0.91 %. . . 77.0 years
    Chile . . . . . 1.07 %. . . 65.5 years
    Canada . . . .1.04 %. . . 67.6 years

    : : : : : : : : : : : :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe
    The ageing of Europe, also known as the greying of Europe, is a demographic phenomenon in Europe characterized by a decrease in fertility, a decrease in mortality rate, and a higher life expectancy among European populations.

    Low birth rates and higher life expectancy contribute to the transformation of Europe's population pyramid shape. The most significant change will be the transition towards a much older population structure, resulting in a decrease in the proportion of the working age while the number of the retired population increases.

    The total number of the older population is projected to increase greatly within the coming decades, with rising proportions of the post-war baby-boom generations reaching retirement. This will cause a high burden on the working age population as they provide for the increase number of the older population.
    : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :

    The data is somewhat confusing, but the point is simple:
    Birthrates have plummeted in certain socialist countries. But overall population may still be rising due to the boom in the elderly (and drop in the death rate). AND those that have socialist insecurity ("taxing other people's children") are running out of "other people's children" to tax. (But even this is skewed by revenue streams from oil)

    This, in turn, has instigated policies to encourage IMMIGRATION to boost the tax rolls. Unfortunately, many immigrant pools come from less educated or incompatible cultures, which are causing problems. Especially, when the illegal / undocumented migrants work "under the table" and don't pay as much taxes.

    One correspondent suggested a "science fiction" solution - rapid development of robotic servants to care for the booming elderly population. But that does nothing to encourage the fertile portion to start "getting busy." Once a population starts into decline, it is difficult to reverse that trend.

    Birthrate BioWar
    Dar-es-Salaam
    http://www.gees.org/articulos/will-i...gion-of-europe
    Colonel Muammar Gaddafi declared that “Islam should become the religion of the whole of Europe.” (not by guns, but by birthrate)

    Gaddafi’s vision of an Islamicized Europe is closer to becoming a reality than many Europeans are willing to admit. According to the Pew Research Center, Islam is already the fastest-growing religion in Europe, where the number of Muslims has tripled over the past 30 years. Most demographers forecast a similar or even higher rate of growth in the coming decades.
    - - - -
    Muslims dedicated to Jihad don't care about the predictions of socialists and statisticians.
    Note: It took Spain almost 700 years to expel the Muslims.

    This video on Political Islam is very disturbing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
    Bill Warner - intro to Islam
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjBDDC4wVxk
    https://youtu.be/-ilFbbk9jw4
    . . .
    POLITICAL ISLAM
    Tears of Jihad (1400 years and counting)
    Kafir Deaths (cumulative)
    • Christians : 60 million
    • Buddhists : 10 million
    • Hindus : 80 million
    • Africans : 120 million
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Total : 270 million (conservative) over 800 million (Muslim bragging)
    Source : www.politicalislam.com
    (Not to mention the millions captured, enslaved, castrated and abused.)
    = = = = = = =
    https://www.usdebtclock.org/

    AND THE NEXT SHOE DROPPING WILL BE . . . .
    USA (2022)

    OUTLAYS: . . $6.8 Trillion
    REVENUES: . $3.8 Trillion
    DEFICIT:. . . . $3.0 Trillion

    {Any deficit implies higher future taxes}

    POPULATION : . . 332,832,595
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . % OF POP. total
    WORKERS: . . . . . .158,568,368 ; 48%
    PRIVATE . . . . . . . . .125,214,156 ; 38%
    PUBLIC . . . . . . . . . . 23,270,226 ; 7%
    SELF-EMPLOYED . . . 9,260,536 ; 3%

    Not in Labor Force : . . . . 99,010,047 ; 30%
    Non-Taxpayers : . . . 107,000,000 ; 32%
    Taxpayers : . . . . . . . . . 51,568,368 ; 15%

    vs Taxpayers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . % OF POP. of Taxpayers
    US RETIREES : . . . . . . . 56,372,496 ; 109%
    US DISABLED : . . . . . . . 9,146,091 ; 18%
    MEDICARE : . . . . . . . . . 63,178,498 ; 123%
    MEDICAID : . . . . . . . . . .84,530,677 ; 164%
    IN POVERTY : . . . . . . . . 39,800,442 ; 77%

    vs WORKERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . % OF POP. of workers
    Dependents : . . . . . . . 174,264,227 ; 110%

    Ratios
    1:1 ... 100%
    1:2 ... 50%
    1:3 ... 33%
    1:4 ... 25%

    (Any percentage over 100% means less than 1 taxpayer is supporting the recipient)
    No matter who is elected, you can be sure that : the tax bill will go UP, there will be fewer taxpayers per recipients, the debt ceiling will go UP, and so will the debt service (interest). If you're a recipient, things look great. If you're a donor (taxpayer), you're [bleeped].

    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/..._spending.html
    2022 GDP: $23.499 T, U.S. population : 332.3 M, Per Capita : $70,716.22
    ● Federal spending, per capita : $18,090.2 (percentage of GDP: 25.5%)
    ● State spending, per capita : $ 6,931.7 (percentage of GDP: 9.8%)
    ● Local spending, per capita : $ 6,487.7 (percentage of GDP: 9.1%)
    Summed up, combined government spending takes (approx) 44.4% of the GDP.
    ...
    100 years ago, less than 1% was taken by the Federal government (and we can extrapolate that state and local taxes were equally minuscule).

    SALT IN THE WOUND - The federal government owns 28% of ALL the land in the united States of America. Approximately 635,600,000 acres (roughly 2 acres per capita). Ironically, the Feds act like they're po' relatives asking for more from us.

    But I digress.

    THE POINT - - -
    THOSE folks who aren't making enough descendants will eventually go extinct. (genocidal socialists, environMentalists, etc)

    THOSE folks who are making a surplus, will export that surplus and marginalize the aboriginal / indigenous folks (not unlike what the Europeans did in Americas, Australia, Africa, etc.)

    There will be an IDEOLOGICAL CONFLICT between Islam and everyone else. (It's inherent in Islam - jihad is mandatory)

    THE FINAL TALLY may be far beyond 11 billion or a tiny sliver (500,000,000) if the Georgia Guidestones have any validity.
    On which one will you "bet your life"?
    IMHO, rapid colonization of outer space is critical if we wish to avoid the approaching chaos.

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    Great Britain Avalon Member Mari's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    My thoughts...

    Current Humankind has been 'quarantined' from colonizing space for a very long time. Advanced civilizations will not allow us to 'spread' ourselves out there until we've cleaned up our own mess. Despite our current technology, and it is puny in comparison with other Interdimensionals/off-worlders' tech, we are still regarded as a kindergarten barbaric war-loving species. We'd be a danger to any life forms out there lower than us.
    And talking of war-like... in our current paradigm, guess who would be the first to 'leave' and travel out there? It certainly wouldn't be humble Joe Bloggs/Mister ordinary, but the reps of the most most powerful and rich countries, out to spread out their little empires beyond the confines of Earth.

    Colonization will come, but not until we've evolved into a more loving, benign species, deserving of being included in the Galactic hierarchy.

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    Ireland Avalon Member JackMcThorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    I can't determine if he's blind, an apologist for socialism, or a disinformation agent.
    I do not want to argue with you, but I will try to address some of your points, you obviously took some time to put this missive together.

    Quote FACTS that dispute his conclusions:
    [] Socialist "paradises" are exhibiting substantial drops in birthrates, and some, like Russia and Ukraine, have dipped into NEGATIVE population growth.
    It has nothing to do with relative prosperity, or development. And China's 1 child policy has really caused havoc, due to a preference for male children (to better support the parents).
    How is Russia and Ukraine 'a socialist paradise'? People are not flocking to these countries and recently millions have fled Ukraine for obvious reasons. America is not really considered socialist and has a negative population growth for some time, this is not a surprise. These stats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVimVzgtD6w [2o minutes of your time] indicate that it has everything to do with prosperity and development. Further, China abandoned its one child policy in 2o15. How do you 'prefer' a gender? You can't force yourself to have a son over a daughter. 'You know what they say in economics: development is the best birth control,” says Song Limin of the Population Research Institute at Liaoning University.'

    Quote [] NON-socialist countries (and Islamic countries) have a much higher birthrate, regardless of relative prosperity (see: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, etc.). And they're exporting their "surplus" population to (guess where?) "socialist paradises." In many cases, the immigrants are disguising the genocidal drop in fertility. [SEE: "Graying of Europe"]
    Some middle eastern countries enjoy prosperity and larger families but this is not a pattern covering the globe. Syria is war-torn and not exactly prosperous. Many African nations are improving in development but are still having larger families and have higher mortality rates. Many of these countries are Third World or Second World and do not uniformly enjoy prosperity at the rate the 1st World does. A socialist vs. non-socialist delineating factor seems like a broad brush. These countries are not really 'exporting' surplus workers. People are leaving due to war [violence/persecution] and legal reasons. I am currently staying at an asylum centre in Ireland. There are about 7o,ooo Ukrainians in Ireland and 8,ooo asylum seekers from countries in the east of Europe, Middle East and Africa mostly. The system here due to the Ukrainians is at a bursting point, some of them were stuck at the airport with no accommodation for weeks. Part of the fault lies in america with its 'interests' in the middle east and part of the fault lies with Europe. You know historically Europe pretty much invaded the world, especially the U.K. and France and they hate the immigration issues they are currently dealing with.

    Quote Before "glorious" socialism, security in old age was dependent upon one's family or private charity. So po' folk had plenty of children, to ease the burden for their eventual care. Along comes socialism, with the allure of "taxing other people's children" for your retirement, and whammo - bammo. Birthrates dropped. Plus, the socialist tax burden has pushed all adults into the workforce, which means women of childbearing years are discouraged from having "expensive" child(ren) - especially when day care can eat up half a day's salary. Ironically, in the "evil" pre-socialist days, a single working man could support a wife to stay at home and care for their child(ren).
    There is an argument in america that po' folk had many children due to many hands making light work on the farm. Social Security in america started in 1935 as a measure to care for the elderly and disabled; this was before the post-war Baby Boom. A full life of paying into the system by working generates a meagre benefit in your later years, one in which some take advantage of working limits to $1k per month to make ends meet. My ex-wife was able to stay at home part of the time, this is still possible in the modern era.

    Quote Well, the "bill" has come due - the growth rate of recipients is far outstripping the growth rate of donors (taxpayers). At this time, in the USA, there are less than TWO taxpayers per recipient. When that drops to less than ONE taxpayer per recipient, what do you think will happen?
    [] Recipient riots? -or-
    [] Taxpayer revolts?
    Either one is nasty.
    And when the socialist paradises are overrun with non-socialists, wonder what will happen then?
    The future belongs to the descendants. Fail to make enough, and your neighbors enjoy the posterity your ancestors fought to bestow on you.
    [All things being equal, america got itself into this mess. I wouldn't call america a socialist paradise. I voted with my feet 4 years ago.]

    Quote SOME REFERENCE DATA - - - clipped The total fertility rate at replacement is 2.33 children per woman. (23.3 per thousand)
    Many countries are not replacing their population, this is not new, the ones in trouble are well aware of it. Most of the population increases are from the obvious countries and Africa in the near future. But this data also reflects less of an urgency regarding overpopulation.

    Quote The data is somewhat confusing, but the point is simple:
    Birthrates have plummeted in certain socialist countries. But overall population may still be rising due to the boom in the elderly (and drop in the death rate). AND those that have socialist insecurity ("taxing other people's children") are running out of "other people's children" to tax. (But even this is skewed by revenue streams from oil)
    Countries like Bahrain pay their populace an annual stipend based on oil earnings. I am not convinced of 'other peoples children' paying the bulk of security due to a long worker's history of its own contributions. The average age has not increased by much. Age of collection of benefits is often adjusted as people are living longer. Death rates average about 1/2 of birth rates at the moment and about 75% of the birth rate since 195o.

    Quote This, in turn, has instigated policies to encourage IMMIGRATION to boost the tax rolls. Unfortunately, many immigrant pools come from less educated or incompatible cultures, which are causing problems. Especially, when the illegal / undocumented migrants work "under the table" and don't pay as much taxes.
    Europe right now is hating immigration for the problems you cite and more. I say its their own fault. The U.K. is considering sending refugees to Rwanda. They haven't sent one yet. It is a very touchy topic in Europe.

    Quote SALT IN THE WOUND - The federal government owns 28% of ALL the land in the united States of America. Approximately 635,600,000 acres (roughly 2 acres per capita). Ironically, the Feds act like they're po' relatives asking for more from us.
    The feds would never get what that land is worth and most of it is protected national parks.

    Quote THOSE folks who aren't making enough descendants will eventually go extinct. (genocidal socialists, environMentalists, etc)

    THOSE folks who are making a surplus, will export that surplus and marginalize the aboriginal / indigenous folks (not unlike what the Europeans did in Americas, Australia, Africa, etc.)

    There will be an IDEOLOGICAL CONFLICT between Islam and everyone else. (It's inherent in Islam - jihad is mandatory)

    THE FINAL TALLY may be far beyond 11 billion or a tiny sliver (500,000,000) if the Georgia Guidestones have any validity.
    On which one will you "bet your life"?
    IMHO, rapid colonization of outer space is critical if we wish to avoid the approaching chaos.
    I have some problems with your commentary on colonizing space but I will reserve my comments for another missive. I re-read the entire thread and it answered most of my questions.
    Last edited by JackMcThorn; 18th December 2022 at 09:47.
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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    To simplify things, consider that prosperity is based on prodigious production of surplus usable goods and services, equitably traded and enjoyed. Money has nothing to do with it... unless the society is money mad.
    - - - - -
    If you owned all the money in the world, you would be "poor". Why? Because everyone else is trading without needing YOUR money. For any money token to have trade value, it has to be DESIRABLE & SCARCE. Scarcity is essential for the usurers to skim their vast fortunes. The remedy is the private issuance by the people who can create their OWN mediums of exchange, not borrowed at usury.
    - - - - -
    Consider that all production is based on labor multiplied by tools, machines, automation and mass production. IF populations are growing, then surplus should be phenomenal. . . we should be prosperous, and living in opulence. But instead we observe poverty and want. That is an artifact of money madness and the scarcity of the money token used for trade. Such a system THROTTLES TRADE. So there are unemployed, underemployed, closed retailers, downsizing factories, etc, etc. All because of money madness.
    Imagine what would happen if 90% of all trade was by barter?
    - - - - -
    Collectivism (slavery by government) in its various names is genocidal and suicidal. Compulsory charity and confiscation of surplus is tantamount to laboring for the benefit of another (slavery) and theft by government (expropriation of surplus). The downside is that there is no incentive to generate surplus. Why work harder if gubmint will take it from you. Thus we get scarcity - equitably distributed by the collective (omitting the managers).
    Voluntary charity is a blessing.
    Compulsory charity is a curse.
    - - - - -
    It's no surprise that the proponents of socialism (public charity), argue that when workers lose their jobs, exhaust their savings, can't get private charity, they are compelled to commit crimes to survive. Ergo, the state must be their benefactor - by taking from everybody else - via taxes.
    However, socialist taxes have a bitter side effect. Penalizing producers and rewarding consumers / recipients shift the value system of a society. Anyone with half a brain seeks to become a protected recipient, and avoid being a burdened donor.

    And as the tax levy mounts, women are pushed into the workforce, which is responsible for the steep drop in birthrates in "socialist paradises" [/sarcasm]. Ironically, such socialist paradises have declining standards of living, inflation (debauched money tokens), and intrusive regulations.

    Another terrible consequence of taxing labor and industry is tax shifting. Any tax has to be shifted to the last guy in line - the consumer. Where else do laborers and businesses get their money to pay their taxes? And when one cannot shift taxes, one goes bust, broke, or worse.
    But those shifted taxes accumulate in the retail price, as inexplicable inflation. Remember, "official" inflation is "too much money chasing too few goods." Go check the total amount of circulating money tokens and see for yourself. We have had a money token drought for generations. Bill Gates, et al, are NOT bidding up the price for milk and cookies. The eCONomists are shills for the Powers That Be.

    The point about the Federal government holding 28% of all land was not the "cash value" (money madness again!), but the exclusion of the American people from that land. [... and NO, it's not "all park land" ]

    LAND OWNERSHIP, or as Thomas Jefferson euphemistically put it : the pursuit of happiness. This meant your own domain upon which no one is your master - no landlord - no one else's permission needed for you to pursue your happiness.
    If you had your own domicile, your private property, absolutely owned, you would have a place to exercise sovereign prerogatives.

    Why would any government seek to exclude others from millions of acres? In America, governments are not the masters, but the servants to the people. . . unless we consent otherwise.

    THAT is the core problem - 99.9% of Americans are unaware of how and when they consented, and thus surrendered /waived their endowed rights to life, liberty (natural and personal), inherent powers, absolute ownership of private property, and so on.

    If the populace "woke up" and withdrew consent, refused to participate in voluntary national socialism (FICA), ceased trading with usurers, diminished the government (and its tax burdens), and became intolerant of predators hiding in the institutions and organizations that serve us, things would be far different.

    A nation where 97% are sovereigns, domiciled upon private property, with untaxable endowed rights, and basically enjoying natural and personal liberty ("freedom!"), would be left alone. While the remaining 3% who are running the government instituted to secure rights (i.e. adjudicate disputes, prosecute criminals, and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic) could get into little trouble with so few to govern and tax. No politician would get rich and powerful under THAT kind of handicap.

    It would be a national tragedy when the president lost his bus pass. [/sarcasm]
    Last edited by ozmirage; 26th April 2023 at 15:53.

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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    Assuming that money madness is sanity - - -

    http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/resource.html
    ● NASA has estimated the mineral wealth of the entire Asteroid Belt could be as much as $700 quintillion, or a seven followed by 20 zeroes. That’s $100 billion for every one of the 7 billion people on Earth!
    NOW if $100 billion caused the invisible pink unicorn of socialism to fart rainbows of goods and services for you, that $100 billion per capita might be worth something...

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHY space colonization is so vital

    Deleted due to being posted in wrong thread
    Last edited by T Smith; 26th April 2023 at 23:19.

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