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Thread: Something is wrong with the Pope…

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    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Something is wrong with the Pope…

    On Christmas Eve I was up late and I happened to catch the Midnight mass on public television, that was taped from the St Peter’s Basilica and with the pope presiding.
    It was already a coincidence that I caught this on tv because I never do but somehow it got my curiosity as well as nostalgia from my childhood and younger years of attending midnight mass with my parents many years ago.

    I enjoyed the sistene choir music. As I observed and listened to the priest that interpreted the readings etc, what got my attention the most was observing the pope every time the camera was turned on him.
    He looked forlorn and dejected to me. That’s how I’d describe him. There was a grayness about him I cannot explain other than there’s something wrong with him. He’s not this assertive , in charge person, just what looks to me a broken person. I was even surprised when I heard his voice reading his sermon. It was a soft voice and no passion, just hurriedly reading through the papers he held in his hand.

    At the end he was wheeled out in a wheelchair because his knee needs surgery. He really looked sad to me. I don’t think he was acting this up either. He must know something that’s making him look kind of broken or maybe it’s just a simple explanation of old age caught up with him. Whatever secret is doing that to him I don’t know. I know he is old but I was surprised by his demeanor.
    Who knows…..is it just my imagination?
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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    I was brought up Catholic and remember Midnight Mass also. [My faith has changed over the years for reasons.] Ireland is very Catholic [as you probably already know] and the Pope is in the news from time to time but I would point out that he was in the news in the past couple weeks here in case you are interested to see. I think he is 86 years old now and he might just be succumbing to the age. Catholicism dominates the belief system in Ireland and recently Catholics outnumbered protestants in Northern Ireland for the first time ever this past year. It is not because they were growing, it is because the protestants population was shrinking.

    This was in the Irish state media on December the 25th:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1225/1343670-pope/

    This was in the Irish state media on December the 18th:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1...-pope-francis/
    Irishness is not primarily a question of birth or blood or language; it is the condition of being involved in the Irish situation, and usually of being mauled by it. ~ Conor C. O'Brien [1917-2oo8]

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."


    Idolatry in plain sight.






    This was their last show, but it was always like this, since vatican introduced the worshipping of the statue of Jesus in cross. They never followed what Jesus taught people about God.
    Last edited by Eagle Eye; 26th December 2022 at 15:45.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
    On Christmas Eve I was up late and I happened to catch the Midnight mass on public television, that was taped from the St Peter’s Basilica and with the pope presiding.
    It was already a coincidence that I caught this on tv because I never do but somehow it got my curiosity as well as nostalgia from my childhood and younger years of attending midnight mass with my parents many years ago.

    I enjoyed the sistene choir music. As I observed and listened to the priest that interpreted the readings etc, what got my attention the most was observing the pope every time the camera was turned on him.
    He looked forlorn and dejected to me. That’s how I’d describe him. There was a grayness about him I cannot explain other than there’s something wrong with him. He’s not this assertive , in charge person, just what looks to me a broken person. I was even surprised when I heard his voice reading his sermon. It was a soft voice and no passion, just hurriedly reading through the papers he held in his hand.

    At the end he was wheeled out in a wheelchair because his knee needs surgery. He really looked sad to me. I don’t think he was acting this up either. He must know something that’s making him look kind of broken or maybe it’s just a simple explanation of old age caught up with him. Whatever secret is doing that to him I don’t know. I know he is old but I was surprised by his demeanor.
    Who knows…..is it just my imagination?
    I am generally new to Catholicism and was introduced from more of an historical perspective. I do feel the religion itself has been abused and taken advantage of due to its sheer power and nothing makes me think things are different today. That being said, it could just be that maybe he feels he has been defeated. I have not done enough research to speak on the issues but there is a severe tare in the Church and many do see Francis and the direction he has moved as being more a symbol of the anti-Pope.

    If he is the anti Pope, well, Church attendance among the faithful has grown in many areas despite Francis. It is standing room only in the 3 Latin style masses in my area, something unheard of, except for Christmas or Easter 10 years ago. This is something that Benedict brought back and Francis has tried to oppress. The admiration for this Pope is just not as strong among Catholics.

    Now, if he is not the anti Pope and he really feels his ways are just and right with God, then wouldn't this also leave him feeling defeated? He wrote of ‘the evil that quietly lurks among us’ just recently. In his mind, maybe he lost that battle.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
    I was brought up Catholic and remember Midnight Mass also. [My faith has changed over the years for reasons.] Ireland is very Catholic [as you probably already know] and the Pope is in the news from time to time but I would point out that he was in the news in the past couple weeks here in case you are interested to see. I think he is 86 years old now and he might just be succumbing to the age. Catholicism dominates the belief system in Ireland and recently Catholics outnumbered protestants in Northern Ireland for the first time ever this past year. It is not because they were growing, it is because the protestants population was shrinking.

    This was in the Irish state media on December the 25th:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1225/1343670-pope/

    This was in the Irish state media on December the 18th:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1...-pope-francis/
    Thank you for those articles because I do not keep up with the pope news.

    I can tell you the picture in that media article from December 25th, the pope looks a lot brighter than the pope I saw at the midnight mass.

    Also I didn’t know he gave his resignation letter in 2013, thank you for that news.

    And thank you for that information about more Catholics in Ireland, I didn’t know that.

    Something else I noticed while watching the mass is that when they started to pass holy communion to the congregation the camera kept going back to the pope and always his left side of his face and there was a small patch of dried blood on his neck under his ear, like from a shaving cut. Only reason I remember this clearly is they kept showing it and also I was surprised because I assumed the pope has assistants to help him dress and wouldn’t someone have noticed this before mass?
    Last edited by Ravenlocke; 28th December 2022 at 03:05.
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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."


    Idolatry in plain sight.






    This was their last show, but it was always like this, since vatican introduced the worshipping of the statue of Jesus in cross. They never followed what Jesus taught people about God.
    The baby Jesus he carried to the crèche after mass was not the one in this picture. The one at midnight mass had longer hair and light colored eyes. The pope carried it in his lap, as he sat in the wheelchair and he kissed it before the assistant took it to place in the crèche. They also had young children, boys and girls from various countries that walked alongside the pope as he was wheeled down the aisle to the crèche.
    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
    - - - - Emily Elizabeth Dickinson. 🪶💜

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."


    Idolatry in plain sight.






    This was their last show, but it was always like this, since vatican introduced the worshipping of the statue of Jesus in cross. They never followed what Jesus taught people about God.
    You clearly don't know what an idol is nor what the Catholic position is on statues and images, you can't just transpose your own beliefs onto such things as being facts, when they aren't.

    These objects aren't idols and Catholics don't worship them.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)

    You clearly don't know what an idol is nor what the Catholic position is on statues and images, you can't just transpose your own beliefs onto such things as being facts, when they aren't.
    These objects aren't idols and Catholics don't worship them.
    To follow that commandment someone has to prove to be ready to break every carved image in pieces. Can they break in pieces that statue, a Jesus statue or even the cross?! I don't think so.
    They are ready to break the commandment, but not the carved image. So be very careful about the Vatican and who they represent.
    Last edited by Eagle Eye; 28th December 2022 at 11:14.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    He looked a lot better earlier, I think it could be put down to a very long day and age, I couldn't do a two hour mass late at night, even with a wheelchair.



    Full midnight mass


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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)

    You clearly don't know what an idol is nor what the Catholic position is on statues and images, you can't just transpose your own beliefs onto such things as being facts, when they aren't.
    These objects aren't idols and Catholics don't worship them.
    To follow that commandment someone has to prove to be ready to brake every carved image in pieces. Can they brake in pieces that statue, a Jesus statue or even the cross?! I don't think so.
    They are ready to break the commandment, but not the carved image. So be very careful about the Vatican and who they represent.
    Like I said previously you don't understand what an idol is. An idol is NOT just any image, be it a picture or a statue. Statues and carvings are just that, they are not idols, just because you mistakenly believe the two are the same thing doesn't make them so.

    Idols are something that goes back to thousands of years ago, they were created by elaborate magical rites that caused a spirit to be trapped within a statue, the spirit was then appeased in various ways in return for "favours" of a magical nature.

    Carving, sculpting or painting doesn't create an idol, it creates art, not the same thing at all.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    Like I said previously you don't understand what an idol is. An idol is NOT just any image, be it a picture or a statue. Statues and carvings are just that, they are not idols, just because you mistakenly believe the two are the same thing doesn't make them so.

    Idols are something that goes back to thousands of years ago, they were created by elaborate magical rites that caused a spirit to be trapped within a statue, the spirit was then appeased in various ways in return for "favours" of a magical nature.

    Carving, sculpting or painting doesn't create an idol, it creates art, not the same thing at all.
    If you answer my question, you will know what an idol is. The statue of Jesus in cross is an idol, every church has normalised the worshipping of Jesus in Cross and Vatican has invented this ritual. Jesus prayed and worshipped God ( the Father, the Creator of the worlds) and yet people continue to break two of the most important commandments, because Vatican has normalised these rituals and changed what Jesus taught.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    Quote Posted by Spiral (here)
    Like I said previously you don't understand what an idol is. An idol is NOT just any image, be it a picture or a statue. Statues and carvings are just that, they are not idols, just because you mistakenly believe the two are the same thing doesn't make them so.

    Idols are something that goes back to thousands of years ago, they were created by elaborate magical rites that caused a spirit to be trapped within a statue, the spirit was then appeased in various ways in return for "favours" of a magical nature.

    Carving, sculpting or painting doesn't create an idol, it creates art, not the same thing at all.
    If you answer my question, you will know what an idol is. The statue of Jesus in cross is an idol, every church has normalised the worshipping of Jesus in Cross and Vatican has invented this ritual. Jesus prayed and worshipped God ( the Father, the Creator of the worlds) and yet people continue to break two of the most important commandments, because Vatican has normalised these rituals and changed what Jesus taught.
    If you aren't going to look any of this up & just believe what ignorant people say about Catholicism without any knowledge, or experience there is no point going any further with this futile exchange. Like many people who make huge presumptions when attacking the Catholic faith & practices you don't know what you are talking about.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
    “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below."

    Idolatry in plain sight.

    This was their last show, but it was always like this, since vatican introduced the worshipping of the statue of Jesus in cross. They never followed what Jesus taught people about God.
    Your comment is off topic and disruptive. The topic here is about the health of Pope Frances, not about your fundamentalist views and condemnation of other religious practices. If you want to make a point about images and idolatry, then find a existent thread on that topic or start a new one. But it is unfair to Ravenlocke and others who want to discuss this issue for you to derail the thread like this.

    Nevertheless, you comment requires a reply.

    In every religion in the world except Islam there is religious art depicting deities, saints, ordinary people, stories, miracle, etc. Every other religion! If you find a creche with the baby Jesus to be an abomination, then here are some more images that should be equally blasphemous to you.














    If the image of baby Jesus is an abomination, then so is all the art above.

    In a world filled with theft, extortion, murder, war, criminal schemes, pollution, poverty, and other forms of human degradation, if the only thing that offends you is an old man putting an image of the baby Jesus in a creche, than there is some serious deficiencies in your moral view of the universe.

    Good luck to you.


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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    If 10 commandments aren't in christianity, then they do not follow the teaching of Jesus.
    Every culture has craved images and worshipped them, but that doesn't mean that everyone followed them. Even they were heavily promoted, the people were divided and still are.
    Following the commandments doesn't solve the problems of humanity in this life, but surely they prevent evil from spreading.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Well, the pope is doing much better than "the pope emeritus".

    Pope Francis asks for prayers for Benedict XVI
    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/n...i-prayers.html

    At the end of the General Audience, Pope Francis asks for “special prayers” for Benedict XVI “who is very ill.” The Holy See Press Office director confirms there has been an aggravation in his health condition but says the situation remains stable.

    Concluding the General Audience on Wednesday, Pope Francis invited the faithful to say a "special prayer" for his 95-year-old predecessor, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

    Quote I would like to ask you all for a special prayer for Pope Emeritus Benedict, who in silence is supporting the Church. Remember him - he is very ill - asking the Lord to console him, and sustain him in this witness of love for the Church, until the end.”
    Advanced age

    Answering questions put to him by journalists, the Director of the Holy See Press Office, Matteo Bruni, confirmed, "In the last few hours there has been an aggravation of his health due to advancing age.”

    He added that the situation “at the moment remains under control,” and that the Pope Emeritus is constantly monitored by doctors.

    Mr. Bruni also said that after the General Audience in the Paul VI Hall, Pope Francis went to the Mater Ecclesiae monastery in the Vatican where Benedict XVI resides.

    “We join him in prayer for the Pope Emeritus,” Mr. Bruni said.

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Glenn: My visit to Vatican City
    Glenn Beck
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    Jan 5, 2023

    "During his Christmas address last December, Pope Francis warned cardinals to be vigilant of an ‘elegant demon’ lurking in the Vatican. Additionally, Pope Benedict XVI’s personal secretary plans to release a tell-all book that his publisher says will describe certain ‘dark maneuvers.’ But Glenn also has his own, personal experiences in Vatican City that lead him to believe there could be sinister forces attempting to gain a foothold there. In this clip, Glenn describes the last time he visited the Vatican, and the “spooky” meeting he had there. His story, Glenn says, proves that evil isn’t just spreading in America — it’s all over the world. But, there are good guys fighting it everywhere as well…"

    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Benedict died in the meantime, I think last Saturday? So this thread might have been prompted by something in the ethers

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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    No it wasn’t tiredness from old age or staying up late for a two hour mass that I noticed in his face.
    But the death announcement of Pope Benedict and now this news item..may have contributed to Pope Frances “look”.

    https://www.rt.com/news/569619-pope-...n-secret-plot/


    Cardinal claims ‘secret plot’ to oust Pope Francis – media


    Following the death of Pope Benedict XVI, a group of cardinals in the Vatican has embarked on a project to pressure the sitting Pope Francis to resign, an unnamed cleric told the Turin-based La Stampa. This revelation of a supposedly secret plot has been picked up by other outlets, notably several tabloids in the UK.

    The Express and the Daily Mail both published their versions of the story on Monday, referring to an article that appeared in La Stampa the day before. Both carry the quote from an anonymous cardinal – said to be Italian – that the plan will unfold along “various axes and phases” but with the sole objective of placing the papacy “under such stress that Francis will have to resign.”

    The plotters are a minority right now, so they will need time to weaken Francis and win over other cardinals, the source allegedly said. Their campaign will supposedly focus on the pontiff’s “doctrinal choices” that have fostered discontent among the more conservative Catholics – notably regarding homosexuality, abortion and divorce – as well as on his failing health.

    Francis, 86, has had several surgeries over the past year and has on occasion had to use a wheelchair to move around.

    Former Pope Benedict XVI dies aged 95
    Former Pope Benedict XVI dies aged 95
    His predecessor Benedict XVI took the unusual step of resigning in February 2013, citing his advanced age. He passed away last month, at 95. According to speculation by the media, the “plotters” did not wish to move against Francis while Benedict was still alive, to avoid the unprecedented situation of having two retired living popes.

    La Stampa saw something suspicious in the fact that Francis has recently met with Cardinal Georg Gaenswein, Benedict’s former personal secretary and still officially the prefect of the papal household, who remains sore that the new pontiff essentially retired him in all but name.

    The Italian outlet said Francis had addressed the German-born cardinal’s accusations in his Sunday sermon, telling the faithful that “Gossip is a lethal weapon, it kills, it kills love, it kills society, it kills brotherhood.”

    Francis has also made several political gaffes in recent months. The Vatican apologized to Russia for the pope’s interview with an American Jesuit magazine, in which he had described the Muslim Chechens and mainly Buddhist Buryats as the “cruelest” Russians. Moscow protested the offense against the minority communities, while Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov criticized the pope’s words as “strange” and “unchristian.”

    Last month, Francis described the conflict in Ukraine as “a global war,” adding that such wars begin “when an empire begins to weaken.”
    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
    - - - - Emily Elizabeth Dickinson. 🪶💜

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    Australia Avalon Member s7e6e's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Your comment is off topic and disruptive.
    Teachings should be held in natural open spaces, not shouted from balconies by men dressed as emperors. The house of God is in our hearts not in these dens of thieves.

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    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something is wrong with the Pope…

    From the description it makes me wonder if the pope got a similar infection to what I just had last month. ( In my case, a mysterious bacterial infection that could not be explained by the doctors).


    https://twitter.com/EWTNVatican/stat...68171846516737



    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1641411265179402242

    Last edited by Ravenlocke; 30th March 2023 at 13:01.

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