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Thread: Not flat earth but...

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

    [ ... a long and detailed post that must have taken 20 minutes to write ... ]
    It won't make any difference!

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

    [ ... a long and detailed post that must have taken 20 minutes to write ... ]
    It won't make any difference!
    Haha ... well, maybe if it re-affirms anything to anyone on the fence or who knows the earth is a sphere, but also wonders why the photos don't look all the same, it was worth the time.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Hi & thanks it will make a difference to me. I haven't chosen a side. My inquiry comes from a question in wondering if math can be used to help answer or support either side.

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  7. Link to Post #44
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    My inquiry comes from a question in wondering if math can be used to help answer or support either side.
    Math enabled you to write that post and make it visible for others. Math is what makes your car start when you turn the key. Math is what gets $$$ in your hand when you go to the ATM. Math is what kept the plane in the sky the last time you flew.

    There's lots of math available to help you figure it all out. A bump of my earlier reply to you:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    A recommendation: go look up Eratosthenes. You don't actually have to do the calculations, but the concept of what he did is really easy to understand. (And that was 2,200 years ago, too.)

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Thanks Bill, I checked it out & pretty much is the mainstream & what everyone believed after the Renaissance Although it was interesting or timely to see this...
    Quote

    Welcome to the Eratosthenes Experiment platform!

    Register by creating your account (Registration is now open). If you have already created one in the past, just log in and check "Yes" in the "I want to participate in Eratosthenes Experiment March 2023" participation box.
    Come in contact with a registered school at the same longitude with you (this info will be provided to you by the organizing team)
    Join efforts with the matching school and record your data
    Calculate the circumference of the Earth
    Submit your data
    The Eratosthenes experiment March 2023 will take place on the March equinox day, Tuesday the 21st of March

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  11. Link to Post #46
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by mojo (here)
    Hi & thanks it will make a difference to me. I haven't chosen a side. My inquiry comes from a question in wondering if math can be used to help answer or support either side.
    There was a guy on the forum a while back, can't recall his name ... and together we went about using some complex math to try to prove the earth was flat (not that I believed that, but its funny how its very often easier to show the truth by trying to prove yourself wrong, than trying to prove yourself right - try it - try to prove the earth is a sphere instead of trying to prove that its not - results will probably be enlightening).

    We took a set of long distance photographs to try to discount curvature of the earth. After calculating in atmospheric light refraction, expected curvature if it was a sphere vs expected results if it was flat, the evidence mounted for it it being a sphere. Not that it should take all that work - but in the end I had helped convert a flat earther. It was well worth all the effort, lol.

    The math 100% supports the earth not being flat. You might find small bits of math here and there that casts doubt, but when you look at the math that actually counts, and the totality of all the calculations, its not a question anymore. I can personally debunk almost any "reasoning" someone comes up with for it being flat - the problem is, as Bill indicated above, is that people don't care for evidence because they want their beliefs to be right - so they will just disbelieve the evidence because it doesn't align with their beliefs. I have heard a flat earth keep saying "yeah but what about this!? Yeah but what about this!? Or this!?" - when one of those debunkings should have made them pause to think. No thinking however, seemed to be involved.

    That is not science. That is cult like brainwashing. Even dismissing one debunking of the reasons - for example, this reasoning: "The continents are different sizes in the photos! They used a fisheye lens! They made a composite image!" should cast doubt on the ability of the people making that reasoning on their ability to reason. Like I said, for me, the explanations are so incredibly simple and extremely mundane - when you know enough truth. Not knowing enough truth to reason properly, therefore, MUST cast doubt on any of the reasoning by those same people herein.

    If I say this rock contains no metal, because I don't see any evidence of metal, I hook up electrodes and it conducts no electricity - all I see is rock, then, someone, through scientific process proves to me that the rock contains metal, I have to admit I know jack-sh!t about which rocks contain metal or not, and the reasoning I used is wholly inadequate to come to any truthful conclusion. For some reason, flat earthers refuse to do this, and this is further telling of their ability to properly reason. Asking questions is fine, ignoring sound reasoning out of ignorance, or desire to disbelieve betrays cult-like susceptibilities.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    United States Avalon Member Strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    It's driving me crazy that I can't remember where this documentary came from. If memory serves me correctly, it was basically a documentary that followed flat Earthers. At the end of the doc, they set up an experiment to prove it was flat, but instead proved it to be round.

    (Less than 1 minute)
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday. Tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    The close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule from members here is no different to the close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule of the pro covid vaccine crowd.

    Utterly disgraceful.
    Well, thank you for all your pleasant comments, which seem to be in much the same vein.

    Would you like to comment on Mashika's post about the MiG-29 flight to 60,000 ft? I'd asked her privately if she could write something about that, thinking it might possibly be helpful and interesting.
    I merely responded in kind. I thought this place was full of open minded individuals but the responses here to my perfectly polite discussion, were indeed disgraceful.

    Regarding the video... It's a fish eye lense. The horizon is curved when they are barely above the ground ... and the horizon becomes concave when below centre of the frame, which suggests the horizon is perfectly flat if a normal lense was used. By your logic then, is this proof that the horizon is concave half the time? I'm genuinely trying to fathom your line of reasoning here. That video is the furthest thing from evidence of your argument I could possibly imagine.
    Last edited by MorningFox; 1st February 2023 at 15:02.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    It's driving me crazy that I can't remember where this documentary came from. If memory serves me correctly, it was basically a documentary that followed flat Earthers. At the end of the doc, they set up an experiment to prove it was flat, but instead proved it to be round.

    (Less than 1 minute)
    ... and this one is a random, mostly dark and non-viewable video of a few blokes inferring that a light cannot be seen. THAT's your proof? Genuinely that's all you have? I mean, if that's all you need to be convinced, I could probably convince you that Santa Clause exists

    Nevermind, your paradigm is perfectly safe. I've learnt my lesson here to not try to even bother. If you're unable to discuss new ideas here, then this is not the place for me.

    Anyone who claims they know for a fact that the earth is round is just as foolish as anyone who claims for a fact that they know it's flat.

    Unless you've been to space and seen it with your own eyes of course. If not, I suggest some humility and an open mind.
    Last edited by MorningFox; 1st February 2023 at 17:36.

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    United States Avalon Member Strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    It's driving me crazy that I can't remember where this documentary came from. If memory serves me correctly, it was basically a documentary that followed flat Earthers. At the end of the doc, they set up an experiment to prove it was flat, but instead proved it to be round.

    (Less than 1 minute)
    ... and this one is a random, mostly dark and non-viewable video of a few blokes inferring that a light cannot be seen. THAT's your proof? Genuinely that's all you have? I mean, if that's all you need to be convinced, I could probably convince you that Santa Clause exists

    Nevermind, your paradigm is perfectly safe. I've learnt my lesson here to not try to even bother. If you're unable to discuss new ideas here, then this is not the place for me.
    Well aren't you a little ray of sunshine. You're not asking me questions, so I wont answer. If this puts me into a 'brainwashed round earther' category then so be it.

    I do genuinely have a question, and believe it or not I'm not taking a shot at you, I'm truly curious. You are not convinced the earth is flat or round. What is your opinion? Like assign a percentage of which shape the earth most likely is, like if you had to bet all your money. 50% it's round or less? What are your thoughts, you don't need to provide any evidence I'm just curious given your research what you think.
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday. Tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

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    Serbia Avalon Member XelNaga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    The close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule from members here is no different to the close mindedness, arrogance and ridicule of the pro covid vaccine crowd.

    Utterly disgraceful.
    Well, thank you for all your pleasant comments, which seem to be in much the same vein.

    Would you like to comment on Mashika's post about the MiG-29 flight to 60,000 ft? I'd asked her privately if she could write something about that, thinking it might possibly be helpful and interesting.
    I merely responded in kind. I thought this place was full of open minded individuals but the responses here to my perfectly polite discussion, were indeed disgraceful.

    Regarding the video... It's a fish eye lense. The horizon is curved when they are barely above the ground ... and the horizon becomes concave when below centre of the frame, which suggests the horizon is perfectly flat if a normal lense was used. By your logic then, is this proof that the horizon is concave half the time? I'm genuinely trying to fathom your line of reasoning here. That video is the furthest thing from evidence of your argument I could possibly imagine.
    Brother, you keep talking **** about this forum and members of this forum, but from what I have seen here, it is you who doesn't seem to belong here.

    One should have an open mind, absolutely, but you seem to have an open head, and I'm afraid your mind has fallen out.

    So sad.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    The fact that the only evidence anyone can provide so far is a fish eye lense video and nonsense video of a few random people saying they can't see a light, implies it's certainly not easy to be certain, doesn't it?

    There isn't a single proof of a round earth. Only Photoshop and fish eye lense. Only freemasons are allowed 'into space'. If you could really go up there then there would be a huge industry. People would be monopolising on space travel. Richard Branson promised space tourism decades ago but of course nothing came to fruition.

    Time and time again objects can be seen on the horizon far further than they should be if the earth is the size and shape they say it is. I've verified this for myself. You can too. Every time this happens the sceptics only explanation is that it's a mirage. Basically it's magic 😂

    There are multiple independent balloons that have been sent up there, that didn't use fish eye lense, which shows the horizon perfectly flat and rising to eye (lense) level. Impossible on a ball.

    The fact that the sun gets SMALLER as it sets, there are many videos online you can find of this. Literally impossible if we're orbiting it in the system they tell us we are.

    The reflection of the sun on the sea suggests it's flat, not round. You can recreate this phenomena yourself. It shouldn't be a straight line reflection if the earth is curved, it should be a spot, but it's only ever a straight line reflection.

    Ships don't disappear over the horizon, high level zoom cameras have proven that it's perspective and with enough zoom they can be brought back into view.

    Eclipses prove we're being lied to. Never once has the moon been seen before or after an eclipse. Just a black shape covering the sun. Most likely this is the black sun or Rahu in Hindu mythology.

    If you believe the official story as to how our solar system was formed, the chances that the moon is EXACTLY the same size as the sun on an eclipse is statistically beyond impossible. It's just foolish to believe this is chance.

    Every single video NASA and other space agencies put out is using a fish eye lense. Every single blue marble image of earth they've put out is different to the other, with continents being different sizes on each one. Some of them having exactly the same cloud formations, proving it's Photoshop. The official blue marble images from NASA show countries lit up by the sun at the same time that are never in full daylight at the same time.

    The fact that a full moon is lit 100% from edge to edge without any gradient is physically impossible on a sphere. No sphere on earth looks like that. Ever. All 3D balls have a gradient of light with a lighter area and a darker edge, so that you can tell they're 3D. The moon does not.

    The idea that gravity is a force pulling everything to earth but the moon stays in orbit is questionable at best. The idea that we only ever see one side of an orbiting moon is too.

    'Craters' on the moon are all perfectly spherical, which means that every single asteroid would have had to come in at a perfect 90 degree angle.

    The fact that direct sunlight is warmer than the shade, where as direct moonlight is COOLER than the shade. This suggests the moon gives off it's own light, rather than reflecting the sun's light.

    The fact that every single rocket NASA sends up has an arc that very obviously doesn't go into space but comes back down to earth.

    The fact that there are multiple satellites that have crashed in remote places and have balloons on them. The fact that NASA is the largest user of helium on earth.

    The fact that every single part of the moon landing footage is very obviously fake to anyone with a brain.

    The fact they haven't gone back in 70 years, and tell us they can't go back because they lost the technology.

    The fact that all the telemetry data from the moon landings was 'lost'.

    The fact that every ancient culture, with far superior technology and wisdom, believed the earth was a flat realm with the heavenly worlds above and the nightmare realms below. And only in the last few hundred years, since the deception has been the greatest, have proven freemasons told us it's round.

    The idea that we are a meaningless accident on just one world of trillions is a very obvious deception to hide God and creation from the people. This is a prison, and if people believe there is nowhere else to go, that's a very easy way to contain them.

    The fact that there is only one magnetic pole, and many schools of mysticism believed that at the centre of the earth was mount meru, the magnetic mountain from which creation pours out.

    The fact that almost all world maps pre 1700s show the north pole to be a black mountain with four green landmasses around it with four rivers coming from the centre, just as the Bible describes.

    Admiral Richard Byrd went to the Antarctic and came back saying there is a landmass the size of America there with tropical climates. Most people are so stuck in the heliocentric model that they rationalise that he must have gone into a hollow earth, but it's far more rational to suppose there is simply more land they are hiding from us.

    The fact that no one is allowed to go and explore the antarctic and despite decades of wars and disagreements, every country has kept their agreement of the antarctic treaty and stopped people from going and exploring freely.

    All of these things suggest we are being lied to about the very nature of our realm.

    To not only blindly believe without question what you were taught in school, but also to ridicule and dismiss anyone that wants to discuss the possibility of it not being true, is pure foolishness. And if you're offended by me saying that, then maybe that's because you recognise an element of truth in it.

    Here is an image dump of some of the images I've saved over the years, to illustrate some of my points. As we all know... a picture tells a thousand words.

    Question everything, my friends.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 10th February 2023 at 14:12.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    ...and the last few it didn't let me include...








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    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    You couldn't possibly see the curvature from plane altitude. Planes windows are curved, that was almost certainly an illusion from the curved window. I'm not saying earth is flat, I'm just saying that you cannot see curvature from that altitude.
    You do on a night flight. I know, I've seen it.

    Update to add - what have the windows got to do with it? In any case, it was only something small like a BAC 1-11 that were common then so the windows wouldn't be large. Travelling north-west to London at about 9pm, the horizon would have been backlit by the sun over the horizon.

    Argue all you want, I know what I saw and my brothers remember it vividly too.

    A further update, I found this on a search on curved windows - an engineer should know.

    I jumped from planes with a parachutes of course, the little planes we used to go mostly was a cesna but up to an-26 (the ones with the door in the rear), all old school planes single and duo motors, i was around 18 years old and I made 21 jumps in total. Earth seems slightly curved to me, no windows to block the view we were usually very close to the opened door.. and then at 16 000 feet free fall could see perfectly how big earth is, the curvature is almost imperceptible but enough to say it is not plain flat line.. also 16 000 feet I guess is not enough altitude for such observation, one should go beyond cruising altitude which is about 35 000 feet to have a strong evidence, but anyway it is not a flat line.

    no go-pro fish-eye lens back then, also I am babbling here based on my own experience.
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Well Mr Science Shill himself Neil Degrasse Tyson says you can't even see the curve from the stratosphere, so by the official narrative you most certainly could not ever see curvature from aeroplane altitude...


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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

    Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

    Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


    Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    I want to know.

    These specific images are difficult to take and I simply don't have the time for it. I know it is debunkable because I know the earth is not flat. If it were there would be so many other areas that would be impacted/implicated by that fact. They are not, in my estimation, amenable to the same sort of manipulation. The extent of the necessary conspiracy involved, its direction, and its ultimate goal, all become far too convoluted to even consider as a viable alternate model of reality.

    Another point by point argument seems - umm,...pointless.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    United States Avalon Member Strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    All that and you still ducked my question.

    Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday. Tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    All that and you still ducked my question.

    Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.
    My opinion is irrelevant.

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

    Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

    Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


    Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?
    lol. You're funny. Why such hostility?

    I've already said I'm not stating the earth is flat, or round, I'm simply questioning our reality and searching for the truth. Why does this trigger you so much?

    Yes please... Debunk every single point. I would love to see it. Despite your bizarre and hostile assumptions about me, I'm simply searching for the truth.

    Oh and if you don't understand the significance of many, many maps from different times and different cultures all portraying the same thing, then I don't know what to say. I never said it proved anything, it's simply interesting and worthy of discussion.

    I'll ask again, why on earth are you so emotionally triggered and hostile?
    Last edited by MorningFox; 1st February 2023 at 18:58.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Not flat earth but...

    Quote Posted by MorningFox (here)
    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    All that and you still ducked my question.

    Again: Assign a percentage as to which is more likely. You can use any shape I don't care.
    My opinion is irrelevant.

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    OMG morning fox ... in several of the images you are posting types of maps ... you honestly seriously consider that a map style dictates the shape of the earth? Maps have various styles because you need to make a sphere flat so you can read it properly. Its painfully simple.

    Several images of reflections on a "flat" vs "sphere" surface - such simple and mundane explanation for this - the relative distance from the surface of a sphere dictates the shape of the reflection (basic geometry) - and in one photo, it would be 10's of thousands of kms and in the other - a few meters. NOT THE SAME. For anyone to not see this is betraying their incredible lack of ability to see clearly, and for anyone to still not understand this when explained to them, betrays an incredible lack of intelligence.

    Every single one of those images you posted are so easily debunkable - and I could easily if you cared to know how they are wrong, but I won't bother. You won't care, will you? You don't want to know what shape the earth is. You don't care to learn ... a true truth seeker seeks truth. That's not you.


    Note to anyone else who actually is a truth seeker: If you want any of the images above debunked, because it raises questions in you, let me know. I'd be happy to help out a fellow truth seeker. Why else are we here if not to seek the truth?
    lol. You're funny. Why such hostility?

    I've already said I'm not stating the earth is flat, or round, I'm simply questioning our reality and searching for the truth. Why does this trigger you so much?

    Yes please... Debunk every single image. I would love to see it. Despite your bizarre and hostile assumptions about me, I'm simply searching for the truth.
    Did you understand the post I put on the previous page, with a detailed explanation and an accompanying graphic as to why composite images are used, fisheye lenses are used, and why the continents and features appear larger in some photos that others?

    Did you thoroughly review that? If you did and still can't understand why none of that evidence for a flat earth is based in reality, then I why should I spend the time? Its very straight forward, and if you can't understand it, then I don't have the tools to assist you.

    You literally posted like two more images above about continent size above - meaning that you still believe that is valid evidence, even after I spent the time to very simply explain it? Its not complicated to understand - A small child could understand it easily.

    Why would I spend the time explaining to someone who either won't read the post, or doesn't have the ability to understand basic logic, or is willing to ignore logic and sense altogether to justify their beliefs? Convince me you actually care.

    I'm not triggered at all, just flabbergasted.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 1st February 2023 at 19:02.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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