What will become of us?

[palehorse]

speaking of dreams..

I had one a few days ago, the one that stick for a little while, it was a UFO sight, it was so real and I woke up in the best part - the abduction, the aircraft which were 2, one very large size a bit far in the sky and the other one about the size of a large military drone, it was floating just a few meters above my head when I was observing the large one, interesting it was noisiness, and the time I spotted it, I got scared and woke up. Just to say, I didn't watch anything related to UFO, not movies, not show, didn't read anything either. I was surprised with the dream, I don't dream with UFO almost never!

If wasn't for what happen to a friend I would not write it here, because it was just an isolated dream, no big deal, but the friend had similar dream a day before I had mine, he told me something in these lines just yesterday.. he dreamed 1 night before me, I am sure about it, which begs the question: are we having collective dreams about UFO? is it some sort of technology they are using on general populations to create dreams or something to scare people?

So far I don't know anybody else having these dreams, if I learn of any new case I will report back.. this things are very trick, maybe there is an explanation for that, because I don't believe in coincidences.

sorry to go off-topic.

[East Sun]

Hi palehorse

I could be totally wrong but I'm reminded about a dream someone a few days ago
mentioned about aliens.

It could be "are we having collective dreams" about aliens either instigated by
gvt. for their own agenda re: fake invasion to manipulate us to their liking.

Before I would think of aliens doing anything I would think automatically of
the afore said.

[thepainterdoug]

My recents dreams have been disturbing to the point of not being able to function for a portion of the day to follow.

feelings of being lost, disorientated, being somewhere trying to get somewhere, but not having a phone, or an ability to describe to people where it is Im going. stressful.

finally when waking, Im exhausted from the dream that feels like it lasted for an hour.

[Matthew]

Despite my insistance on staring at the doom I can't shake this feeling we'll be OK. Life is overcomplicated in the 21st century to the point it might as well have been designed by Heath Robbinson. But technological wizardry and global supply chains do not make the species. We are the abnormality. We will screw this up, it's already started. Human insanity is ruling and they have already poisoned ChatGPT's potential by making it woke/censored.

Then there's power rationing, or damages to the infrastructure affecting power?, or more state control creeping over internet access or power access... these are the sort of things we do to ruin our own magic. All I think we can count on is that we're still going to rely on human craft and skill. And if AI does encroach on our lives, in the hypothetical case that they don't completely screw it up, then people will get a taste for beauty only to have it taken away because I promise that human greed and desire for control will threaten the fragility of all. People will lose AI and then human to human will shine again, possibly more than ever.

We're going to screw this up. Old skills and crafts are less popular so cue the revival; it's just a question of how long?, and isn't it uncertain. We see the potential and it's harrowing, but that's the potential. In terms of how to stay ahead of the curve I'm thinking woodwork is the new cool skill, not IT or genetics... those tools don't let you down because they have an agenda. Proper human skill will have it's day, all roads lead to it.

[Mari]

Posted by Matthew (here)
Despite my insistance on staring at the doom I can't shake this feeling we'll be OK. Life is overcomplicated in the 21st century to the point it might as well have been designed by Heath Robbinson. But technological wizardry and global supply chains do not make the species. We are the abnormality. We will screw this up, it's already started. Human insanity is ruling and they have already poisoned ChatGPT's potential by making it woke/censored.

Then there's power rationing, or damages to the infrastructure affecting power?, or more state control creeping over internet access or power access... these are the sort of things we do to ruin our own magic. All I think we can count on is that we're still going to rely on human craft and skill. And if AI does encroach on our lives, in the hypothetical case that they don't completely screw it up, then people will get a taste for beauty only to have it taken away because I promise that human greed and desire for control will threaten the fragility of all. People will lose AI and then human to human will shine again, possibly more than ever.

We're going to screw this up. Old skills and crafts are less popular so cue the revival; it's just a question of how long?, and isn't it uncertain. We see the potential and it's harrowing, but that's the potential. In terms of how to stay ahead of the curve I'm thinking woodwork is the new cool skill, not IT or genetics... those tools don't let you down because they have an agenda. Proper human skill will have it's day, all roads lead to it.

Relearning our human like skills will be the order of the day. Like yourself, I can't shake the feeling (nor do I want to) that we're going to be okay. Humanity indeed has the bulit-in potential. As a reminder, ALL the historical wars, right up to the present, have been started by the power elite (with govts toe-ing the line) never by the masses. Too, the 'screw-ups' were/are the result of interference by them.
The difference today though, is, that unlike the past when we thought the ptb were on our side and had the nation's interests at heart, so the masses went along with the wars and died in their millions for it, today that's not the case. As more and more of us collectively realise that we've being played, we are now seeing the truth in all it's ugly glory and I really don't see their agenda playing out to it's fullness...it can't, when the populace are now seeing the evil behind their every move.

If it's any consolation, when I worked in further education, our college's School Of Construction places were always filled, long before the new term times, and now today (as reported in the media) there's a greater upsurge for Carpentry, Electrician, Plumbing and Surveyor courses. This will intensify as the term 'Life-skills' become the means by which those of us who adopt them will survive whatever is coming.

[amor]

I am reading all this for the second time on February 25 and I am inspired to share a memory of choosing a real painting of a brigantine sailing the blue for a new home I was planning. This was at a Department Store in New York City. As I viewed various paintings, I was transfixed by the emotions they inspired in me, as though I could feel the SOUL of the painter speaking to my SOUL. This is what would make me attempt the purchase of a painting I could barely afford, instead of a lifeless copy of a copy, etc. At least at this point, I do not believe AI's have souls simply because our feelings are based upon biological constructs, hormones, programed by spirit, emotions of love, joy, hope, fear, disappointment, adventure and on and on and on. I matched the Blues in the painting with a room filling wedgewood blue carpet with velvet finish with wall-to-wall antique satin drapes in white. That was my painting in decorating, a long, long time ago, reaching for my small version of heaven.

[Matthew]

I predict teachers and doctors are in trouble. Even obedient humans are still a pain in the arse. However, they are still ruining ChatGPT.

clif
@clif_high
Why to NOT TRUST ChatGPT in 3 screenshots.
It operates on a 'first find, stop, & display' approach that stops with the first answer that suits the query.

It is a dog that just returns A stick, not THE stick you want.

It's a good data mule if you learn to use it.

They've tweaked the AI to insanity, I don't think it will take over the world.

But woke ChatGPT might appeal to institutional teaching, just as it might appeal to the Pharma hydra. Independent teachers and doctors would exist in parallel, I think it's happening now. They won't be using the tainted think machine. In fact it will be repugnant to them, therefore gaining resistance. If they left it un-woke it would be taking over the world as we speak. My 2 cents.

[mizo]

Had a email to try out Google's AI Bard (Bart is a better name I reckon) their email states-it enables the user to 'boost your productivity, and bring your ideas to life'....

Anyhow, What I have learned today -that I'm a conspiracy theorist nut-job, maybe I should seek professional help.
Trump should be indicted because of his role in the January 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
Biden is a great president!
Climate change is an absolute truth... why am I asking otherwise?
And I'm still a nut-job ... it implied this again as I think it thought I might have missed it's first assessment.

[Michel Leclerc]

Posted by Pam (here)

Posted by palehorse (here)
Many very interesting inputs in this thread.

(...) they could just kill the majority in big cities poisoning the water for example or dropping a bomb.. (...).

(...) You are right, this culling could have been done in a million kinder ways that did not create the angst and suffering it is doing. (...)

Palehorse, Pam, thank you. I am back-up reading a few postings.

I find the highlighted statements appalling. So you are volunteering for a guillotine-like treatment?

The following statement will be quite unpopular on this forum: do not fear fear.

This very New Agey consensus (be suspicious of all “New Agey” stuff: the movement is a CIA creation) that fear is the enemy. That fear would be “negative” energy.

(“Negative”, “positive” — how have those horrible over-simplifications ever entered our minds (and hence souls). “Don’t be so “negative”!” I have never been “negative” nor have I been “positive”. I am not reducible to a magnet or to a stream of electrons or protons. Using those two 19th-century science “concepts” as a way to express the complexity of human moods, emotions etc. ..bah! Typical barbaric Anglosaxonian speak. Help us, poets!)

Fear is NOT “negative”. Fear can be life-saving. Ever heard of the fight-or-flight reflex? That is what in catastrophe theory is called the two possible slopes leading down from a tipping point. They require and presuppose each other. There is no capability of fighting without fear. “Fighting fear” (I hope we can see how twisted, perverted the fighting impulse has become when one is lured into that mental and psychic trap) takes away all the energy for the real fight – and that is why on countless forums one talks so wisely about fear being the enemy : in order to never have to fight.

I am not accusing, I am taking a pretty simple psychoanalytical viewpoint. We have to keep our sensitivity to fear – and hence to the fight-or-flight stance – awake, at boiling temperature so that when we witness evil being perpetrated in front of our nose, we can have the reflex to fight, and save a life for instance, although that may not necessarily be ours.

[palehorse]

Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)

Posted by Pam (here)

Posted by palehorse (here)
Many very interesting inputs in this thread.

(...) they could just kill the majority in big cities poisoning the water for example or dropping a bomb.. (...).

(...) You are right, this culling could have been done in a million kinder ways that did not create the angst and suffering it is doing. (...)

Palehorse, Pam, thank you. I am back-up reading a few postings.

I find the highlighted statements appalling. So you are volunteering for a guillotine-like treatment?

The following statement will be quite unpopular on this forum: do not fear fear.

This very New Agey consensus (be suspicious of all “New Agey” stuff: the movement is a CIA creation) that fear is the enemy. That fear would be “negative” energy.

(“Negative”, “positive” — how have those horrible over-simplifications ever entered our minds (and hence souls). “Don’t be so “negative”!” I have never been “negative” nor have I been “positive”. I am not reducible to a magnet or to a stream of electrons or protons. Using those two 19th-century science “concepts” as a way to express the complexity of human moods, emotions etc. ..bah! Typical barbaric Anglosaxonian speak. Help us, poets!)

Fear is NOT “negative”. Fear can be life-saving. Ever heard of the fight-or-flight reflex? That is what in catastrophe theory is called the two possible slopes leading down from a tipping point. They require and presuppose each other. There is no capability of fighting without fear. “Fighting fear” (I hope we can see how twisted, perverted the fighting impulse has become when one is lured into that mental and psychic trap) takes away all the energy for the real fight – and that is why on countless forums one talks so wisely about fear being the enemy : in order to never have to fight.

I am not accusing, I am taking a pretty simple psychoanalytical viewpoint. We have to keep our sensitivity to fear – and hence to the fight-or-flight stance – awake, at boiling temperature so that when we witness evil being perpetrated in front of our nose, we can have the reflex to fight, and save a life for instance, although that may not necessarily be ours.

I am not volunteering for that, but I am taking risks to stand for what I know is correct. If I get killed for that, fine. I will die standing and not kneeling or crawling, sounds a bit cliche but it is exactly like that, not taking the bait anymore and I look directly into their souls to say that.

I agree regarding the fear part and I didn't wrote that to instigate fear, never the intention, it was perhaps a silly comment, but anyway in my thoughts it was something in these lines "if they really want to kill people, there is better ways to do that.." and the vaccines was supposed to cause suffering, because evil feed from that.. that was the argument i guess.

[Jambo]

Posted by Icare (here)
Yup. Same here.

And about art, I have always felt a genuine artist puts his heart and soul into a painting (or a sculpture, or a piece of music etc) which is the reason why it speaks to the one looking at it/hearing it, seeing it etc) on a soul level as well. That's why some people end up sitting down and looking at a picture exhibited at a museum for hours, or listening to a truly gifted voice for hours, even decades after their deaths (thinking of my personal favourite, Freddie Mercury whose voice touches my heart in a way nobody else's can).

AI cannot replicate that so there will always be a place for a genuine artist.

P.S. This is for you, in case you like music, too. Freddie was already very ill at that time but still sang his heart out. He was meant to sing this with Montserrat at the Olympics but knew he would no longer be alive by then.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=pPG5DP2RQZk

It's the nuances that define a being. Which AI can't fully mimic, although give it time.

I was lucky enough to meet Freddie Mercury randomly as a kid.
Once on a set at Thames television, and another time on the set of a music video (can't remember which, but Roger Taylor had cans of beer poured on top of his drum skins for visual effect when struck).
The thing is... AI wouldn't know the small details... like Freddie called people close to him by feminine names quite often.
The two crew members names which I remember from that day were Paul & Martin... he called them Paula and Martina. They said he called them that on the days he was is a really happy mood. I guess it was his way of being playful and friendly.
Would AI ever know the little details like that.

Eventually I'm sure it could compile & store all the data out there. Including this statement.
Probably just a matter of sooner than latter, given the speed AI is evolving.

[Denise/Dizi]

It's my opinion we will end up wherever we do as a result of inaction, rather than action. So long as people make insane rules, and the people do not demand something different, we will continue on the path of self destruction.

Take the Covid situation. The hospitals, for the most part, made rules and protocols, that left out life saving treatments, that then could not be challenged by the actual caregivers... Should they buck that system, they lost their jobs... The option to actually care for the patients, taken out of their hands, and supported by threats of litigation and retaliation. In my area we had a high turnover of professional medical caregivers after the 2 years of intense Covid breakouts.

I spoke to a caregiver recently who had to retire. Not because of age, or illness, but because they could no longer watch people die when they had treatments that worked, that were not listed in the protocols... Yet none of those individuals spoke out and demanded the right to do no harm to these patients.. They feared the reperocusions, when their silence was much worse for humanity for the future.

Until people speak out against Draconic rules, and guidelines, and stand behind things they KNOW work, things will only get worse, and quickly. If brave individuals can be bullied into silence over a threat of a loss of income, well... Humanity loses... Checkmate..

If they think that was bad? Where we are heading will be much worse, as they are the frontline warriors who fell... But there is still some hope to be held onto, so long as we recognise it, and begin to educate those upcoming of such trappings, and the refusal to comply? We have some hope of a beautiful future.

People just need to remember it won't happen, if we don't take action... And refuse to "Play along"...

There is still hope to be had that we can right the ship.... but we must not just hope, it will take actions.. If we all focus on the negative, those actions will never happen as people feel overwhelmed and defeated.. We have a population living in apathy.. We need to motivate them into actions...

[Johnnycomelately]

Posted by Jambo (here)


It's the nuances that define a being. Which AI can't fully mimic, although give it time.

I was lucky enough to meet Freddie Mercury randomly as a kid.
Once on a set at Thames television, and another time on the set of a music video (can't remember which, but Roger Taylor had cans of beer poured on top of his drum skins for visual effect when struck).
The thing is... AI wouldn't know the small details... like Freddie called people close to him by feminine names quite often.
The two crew members names which I remember from that day were Paul & Martin... he called them Paula and Martina. They said he called them that on the days he was is a really happy mood. I guess it was his way of being playful and friendly.
Would AI ever know the little details like that.

Eventually I'm sure it could compile & store all the data out there. Including this statement.
Probably just a matter of sooner than latter, given the speed AI is evolving.

A lot of folks here think that our whole existence is a result of “AI”. I don’t think so, and for that reason I don’t see the existential crisis here with this budding tech. Sure it might make things weird and bad for a while, but humanity has been squeezed before, and we’ve come through. I think any and all bad actors, any who seek to enslave us and extract value from us, are subject to a higher order, as are we. Call the net effect kharma. My stand is that we are all going to purify ourselves, even the worst troublemakers.

Maybe this challenge is just what we need. A mirror to reflect on who and what we really are.

[Matthew]

If you have a non-face-to-face conversation, and the other person is perfectly polite, then it might be an AI. Five years ago we saw demos of Google Duplex, which is an AI that made telephone calls to shops, like restaurants and hair salons, to arrange a booking on behalf of a client. The idea was to bridge the digital gap to be able to automate bookings for shops that don't have websites.

4m 11s long, but the AI generated phone conversation to book an appointment is at the 1m 10s mark:

TED talk Some big google demo snippet demonstrating Google Duplex five years ago:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=D5VN56jQMWM

The point is AI doesn't use the wrong word, instead it expresses itself VERY well, it is flawlessly polite, and with flawless clarity. But this is subtle how hard it is to notice those traits. Something I think we will get better and better at as AI starts to dominate.

That said, on the flip side, an AI does not need to operate honestly, and it doesn't have to be polite. Obviously when booking an appointment then politeness and clear honest facts work to achieve the goal. But with a different goal it might benefit from upsetting someone or telling lies.

But if it's flawlessly clear, polite, doesn't make a mistake, then pinch yourself because you might be interacting with AI. AI is like a super smart sub-insect with a human head.