Peeling the onion - discovering Denial.

[Ewan]

Prompted by a brief exchange with Matthew yesterday and begun, inadvertently, by Pam
here I wanted to talk more about Denial, how difficult it is to see (in yourself) and also explain what I mean by ego.

PAM: The MSN lady that is an alleged doctor, does she really believe that a common cold turned into myocardititis? That's a first. I'm pretty sure she might get long covid as well. I would love to know if they really, really believe this, or just are too fearful, arrogant, programmed or proud to know that what she is saying is ridiculous?

Ewan: Denial is a self (ego) protection device that is pretty hard to overcome, those who succeed are usually, understandably, devastated for some time. The way things are going I think there are going to be a lot of devastated people in the next year or two.

Matthew: I'd argue it's ego malfunction, or abuse. The ego gets a bad rep but it has a noble job to do... sometimes its job is painful for such a sensitive part of us. When the ego does it's job well and works then there is no issue, but that can take courage.

Ewan: I see what you are saying but first I guess we would have to establish what we mean by ego, there are many different interpretations depending on what you have been reading. I'm sure we could come to an agreement but that's going off-topic here.

Firstly ego. As there are (at least) three different definitions that I know of and as each is quite different, it is quite important to establish which one is being used.

1: ego is the sense of self, that which experiences and reacts. The ego will defend itself if it percieves a threat. A threat could be as innocous as another persons thoughts if they do not align with your own. (Probably why extremes on a Bell Curve always end up hating each other).

2: Freud's ego was much more rational. I would suggest his id is what I call ego, and probably for most people who haven't studied some psychoanalytical works.

3: Alice Bailey's (Dwaj Kuhl's) Ego was always written with a capital as part of the Logos, the trinity. I would say that particular definition of ego most equates with what we think of as our soul.

I have previously written the following here as my explanation and understanding of ego. Edited for clarity.

The guy who introduced me to an awakening said at one point to me.. "..you can't function in this dimension without an ego, but let it be the passenger and not the driver."

He also used to tell a tale where there was a coach and horses, a coach driver and a passenger. He said the average human sits in the carriage unaware where he is going, the ego holds the reins and the emotions (horses) are much too free to do as they please.

The awakening human would climb up onto the seat next to the driver providing directions but noticing they sometimes still ended up off course.

Further along the path this ever more aware human would insist the ego take the back seat and take the reins themselves. With the horses under full control and the voice of the ego now back in the carriage there was no reason the driver could not reach whatever destiantion he set his mind to.

Holding on to the emotions, directing them and ever mindful of the passenger.

Now on the subject of ego, it comes with a variety of subterfuges and tricks to prevent you from unmasking it. (Don't, as I did at one point, consider it your enemy. It is part of you and you have to learn to get along).

The ego is perfectly capable of joining your crusade to become a priest and educate the masses about god, for instance, or make the world a better place as a politician, or a doctor. It would even happily start a charity with you to provide solace to the poor and hungry, but you should probably take at least 20% of donations for yourself, after all you deserve it - working so hard.

One of the tricks the ego developed was blotting out awareness of uncomfortable facts. Cognitive dissonance is the buzz term and I often see it being used to decry others when the speaker almost certainly suffers the very same affliction.

Let me give you my own example first posted here. Edited for clarity

..snip..

The first book was Fear of Freedom by Erich Fromm. Most critics/reviews describe it as an essay about the psychology of the Nazi. I personally feel it is much more than that.

There was a passage I was reading that gave me an uneasy feeling but I didn't know why. I turned the page and kept reading. The feeling would not desist though so I went back and read it again.

Still nothing - I moved on once more. A few pages later yet this feeling will not leave me, I was missing something.

I returned again to the elusive passage and then I saw it! What I had been failing to see were words that accurately described a part of my own behaviour.. I'd read the thing three or four times and had been completely oblivious to it. That's denial!

Well, what an eye-opener that was, talk about revelation, and afterwards a lot of recrimination. Mostly 'how could I have been so blind?'.

Denial can stare you in the face and you might not even see it. It's called a blind spot, and we all have them.

You can actively hunt them out by challenging everything you believe to be true with further examination, introspection and exploration. Is something making you feel uncomfortable, you might be getting close. Persevere.

Perhaps the brightest part of uncovering denial, (and as a consequence looking ego right in the eye), was that no matter whenever the ego surfaces now, and it does, I am quickly aware of what just happened and can set about correcting that.

[Matthew]

Doesn't taking responsibility for ones own opinion require their ego? Ego gets a bad reputation but it has an important job to do. If you try to express your opinion without your ego, or trying to avoid saying "I", then it comes out lofty like you're saying it's 'the truth' rather than YOUR opinion on the truth. Everyone's opinion is inherently flawed which is why 'truth' must be anchored to an ego-centric opinion. That doesn't mean they think their opinion is the best, ...that is a crude understanding of ego imho. That's describing ego malfunctions and since the ego has to face the world, in a way much of our gestault doesn't, so no wonder it goes wrong; it has the hardest job of meeting our internal dialogue and facing the world.

People are in denial because the truth is too frightening. Stages of grief makes sense. Denial stars in grief models. Denial tries to protect people from overwhelming grief or nasty surprises.

Stages of grief breaks the experience down to five or seven superficial bullet points:
[shock]
denial
anger
bargaining
depression
acceptance
[processing grief]

These look a lot like the change curve derived from George Kohlrieser's book 'Hostage at the table' who draws from his experience as a veteran hostage negotiator. The model is iterative, with people going back between the stages. Simplifying it we have:

denial
blame
self-blame
confusion (new frame of reference)
acceptance


Not sure it helps to talk about the current medical denial as an ego problem. I'd be keener to frame it as abuse of trust.

[Ewan]

Hi Matthew,

I fear we are not understanding one another. I wonder if it would help if I trimmed Pam's original post down to just.. 'I would love to know if they really, really believe this, or just are too fearful, arrogant, programmed or proud to know that what she is saying is ridiculous?'

The ego I am talking about, and went to some length to describe, is quite happy taking the lead role and espousing whatever opinion it holds to be true at that time, in this case probably the official mantra. The Dr. meanwhile is still in the back of the carriage and oblivious to this as the ego blocks it from her view. (See my own experience with suddenly seeing something right in front of me which I had been totally blind to mere minutes before). The Dr. is following the ego's lead because she hasn't found herself yet. She hasn't begun to awaken. They're simply a follower.

And yes, you cannot function very well without an ego in the three dimensions. The question is are you following the ego, blindly, or is the ego a part of a greater self that doesn't rule the roost any more?

Yes we have to take responsibility for our opinions if we are espousing them as advice, if we are keeping them to ourselves the only person we can harm, assuming our opinions are bat-sh1t crazy, is our own progress.

Its all an ego problem. You can reframe it any way you like it is still an ego problem. I fully agree with the stages of denial. I've been through them more than once, they get easier and swifter to process.

I didn't label the topic medical denial, simply denial. I don't believe there is an abuse of trust if the Dr's stating their opinions are blind to the truth - a very different matter if they become aware and keep espousing the same opinions to protect their status/security whatever. (Psychopaths excel at this, Fauci et al).

That is more than an abuse of trust, its downright criminal. But as Wade Frazier often points out, and correctly I have concluded, one of the biggest problems with humanity is a lack of integrity.

[Matthew]

> That is more than an abuse of trust, its downright criminal. But as Wade Frazier often points out, and correctly I have concluded, one of the biggest problems with humanity is a lack of integrity.

I see this, it's easy to unite round this terminology. Whatever side of this demarcation that people will fall on when the wind changes, well good luck to them - it's crystal clear where we are

We know the wonders of the world available to people who have humility (the world opens up)... we see the problems caused because of a lack of humility, possibly integrity is difficult without humility? I just can't bring myself to describe lack of humility as 'ego', because humility needs the ego's cooperation. But you're right this is a language issue, not a core belief difference

[Vangelo]

Excellent topic and great example of denial. This form of cognitive dissonance is exactly what Anthony Martino calls "Emotional Blindness" in his books. I have experienced it many times as well and am always stunned when I finally see what is so obvious to everyone else.

Posted by Ewan (here)

..snip..

The first book was Fear of Freedom by Erich Fromm. Most critics/reviews describe it as an essay about the psychology of the Nazi. I personally feel it is much more than that.

There was a passage I was reading that gave me an uneasy feeling but I didn't know why. I turned the page and kept reading. The feeling would not desist though so I went back and read it again.

Still nothing - I moved on once more. A few pages later yet this feeling will not leave me, I was missing something.

I returned again to the elusive passage and then I saw it! What I had been failing to see were words that accurately described a part of my own behaviour.. I'd read the thing three or four times and had been completely oblivious to it. That's denial!

Well, what an eye-opener that was, talk about revelation, and afterwards a lot of recrimination. Mostly 'how could I have been so blind?'.

Denial can stare you in the face and you might not even see it. It's called a blind spot, and we all have them.

...

RE: Definitions of ego.
I'd like to add to that discussion as well. Specifically, I see ego as the primary or controlling personae. One of many we possess but it is the one that defines who we think we are and it is the one that controls when we present our other personae as we interact with the outside world. This point of view is based on my understanding of Voice Dialog as defined by the originators of this form of therapy.

Ultimately, I agree with

Posted by Matthew (here)
... But you're right this is a language issue, not a core belief difference

[norman]

Integrity doesn't come from the mind.

Clever and well 'trained' minds can do an excellent job of convincingly mimicking integrity but cannot do the real thing.

It's a bit like how a computer can never spontaneously burst out laughing, genuinely, with a real sense of humour, but a very well crafted software program can do a good job of faking it.

[ExomatrixTV]

The ego is just a tool to express your uniqueness ... How, when & where you use it in what context determines if it is "egotistical" or "altruistic" / smart or dumb / uplifting-empowering or oppressing etc.

To discourage to use this tool, which originally is neutral >>> just like a using a knife, it can be used for good like surviving in the woods, but it can also be used to do harm.

• To be discouraged to be unique can have multiple reasons:

Status quo, powers that be, that wants you to "fit in" their corrupted system and not expose what they are really doing to all of us ... and if you do expose them >>> others may feel threatened to be reminded that they too have the same tool to be unique and use that uniqueness but failed to do so ... others may feel jealous and only assumes the bad aspect of the tool.

"Big ego" means big presence means big allowance of "the self" to express that uniqueness (for good or for bad) ... the bigger the presence, the fewer others feel "recognized" or "seen" or "heard" unless you have the gift to expose injustice many are experiencing ... to be like that you have to have certain courage to withstand: prejudices, ad hominem attacks, slander, false accusations but also healthy criticism & constructive feedback.

If you are able to deal with all of it on a psychological level, most are not! >>> even when it is right what you are doing, you always find people that are not happy that you have that gift, and they do not >>> some of them will use any means to allegedly "expose" you for having a "big ego" which again: is just a tool for good or bad depending on how you use it.

• There are more reasons why they do not want you to express your uniqueness >>> which is seen as having an "ego" >>> you're supposed to shut up and follow the herd.
• ... and never forget ... it takes an ego to accuse someone else that he or she has an ego, and every time when I see that, I find it hilariously funny

How many people feel comfortable to express their uniqueness freely but failed to do so and see (falsely assumed) their "sacrifice" as the opposite of "the ego" ... What if millions of real good people had something unique to offer which humanity actually needed but did not do it because they ASSUMED it was the "ego" ... Do you now see how "the ego" (which is just a tool for good and bad) got demonized?



cheers,
John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
February 8th, 2023 🦜🦋🌳

[Pam]

Posted by Ewan (here)
Hi Matthew,

I fear we are not understanding one another. I wonder if it would help if I trimmed Pam's original post down to just.. 'I would love to know if they really, really believe this, or just are too fearful, arrogant, programmed or proud to know that what she is saying is ridiculous?'

The ego I am talking about, and went to some length to describe, is quite happy taking the lead role and espousing whatever opinion it holds to be true at that time, in this case probably the official mantra. The Dr. meanwhile is still in the back of the carriage and oblivious to this as the ego blocks it from her view. (See my own experience with suddenly seeing something right in front of me which I had been totally blind to mere minutes before). The Dr. is following the ego's lead because she hasn't found herself yet. She hasn't begun to awaken. They're simply a follower.

And yes, you cannot function very well without an ego in the three dimensions. The question is are you following the ego, blindly, or is the ego a part of a greater self that doesn't rule the roost any more?

Yes we have to take responsibility for our opinions if we are espousing them as advice, if we are keeping them to ourselves the only person we can harm, assuming our opinions are bat-sh1t crazy, is our own progress.

Its all an ego problem. You can reframe it any way you like it is still an ego problem. I fully agree with the stages of denial. I've been through them more than once, they get easier and swifter to process.

I didn't label the topic medical denial, simply denial. I don't believe there is an abuse of trust if the Dr's stating their opinions are blind to the truth - a very different matter if they become aware and keep espousing the same opinions to protect their status/security whatever. (Psychopaths excel at this, Fauci et al).

That is more than an abuse of trust, its downright criminal. But as Wade Frazier often points out, and correctly I have concluded, one of the biggest problems with humanity is a lack of integrity.

Very interesting thread, Ewan. I spent years and I mean years as an avid student of Echart Tolle and mistakenly looked at any form of ego as the enemy. I worked and worked on eradicating it. I did gain much from this experience. I learned that the ego is actually just a tool. I need some form of identity to navigate in this reality and an ego or persona is appropriate. The problem arises as I see it when it is no longer a tool but the master. Where I believe my thoughts and understanding are fact and I need to act on that.

I used to literally believe my thoughts were reality. Now I understand and can recognize many times that the ego is creating a narrative to keep me separate so it maintains relevance.I can now go for long periods without thinking about anything other than what I am doing. The imbalanced ego needs drama so it creates thought forms. I realize I don't have to act on them at all. In fact they will pass if I don't energize them. They will float away, that simple. I definitely have not mastered this 100% of the time but I continue to practice recognizing when the ego is wanting drama to validate it exists. One of my personal main issues and I have said this several times on the forum is a tendency of the ego to want to create a scenario where I can mentally obsess with some story line that allows me to feel righteous indignation. I am now aware of it so I can choose to let it go.

Seeing the ego as "the enemy" and total eradication of it is like a dog chasing his tail. But recognition of it and realizing that I don't need to act on it has been a huge game changer for me. But living hell, at least for me was believing all of my thoughts. I believe that cognitive dissonance that is baked into our culture to allow us to do all sorts of things that are insane and actually believe them.

Also, It takes a lot of courage to realize you have been totally duped. I have spent the last few years seeing the absurdity of so much of my life and the craziness of much of what I accepted as truth. If your ego has a strong enough hold on you and you believe your thoughts as always true it would be very easy to totally have blinders on because the ego does not want you doubt it if it is imbalanced and running the show.

It would be much more acceptable for the Doctor to believe the absurd than to admit maybe she made some mistakes, maybe she was wrong. Maybe her career is not so noble as she wanted to believe. Maybe she is playing a role of worldwide genocide. Not to mention cancel culture. So her ego tells her that a common cold caused myocarditis and she may be able to add to mental confirmations that is was a really bad strain of the cold virus.

Understanding the role of the ego and understanding the empathy, narcissism spectrum have really made all this insanity easier to understand.

[Pam]

Posted by Pam (here)

Posted by Ewan (here)
Hi Matthew,

I fear we are not understanding one another. I wonder if it would help if I trimmed Pam's original post down to just.. 'I would love to know if they really, really believe this, or just are too fearful, arrogant, programmed or proud to know that what she is saying is ridiculous?'

The ego I am talking about, and went to some length to describe, is quite happy taking the lead role and espousing whatever opinion it holds to be true at that time, in this case probably the official mantra. The Dr. meanwhile is still in the back of the carriage and oblivious to this as the ego blocks it from her view. (See my own experience with suddenly seeing something right in front of me which I had been totally blind to mere minutes before). The Dr. is following the ego's lead because she hasn't found herself yet. She hasn't begun to awaken. They're simply a follower.

And yes, you cannot function very well without an ego in the three dimensions. The question is are you following the ego, blindly, or is the ego a part of a greater self that doesn't rule the roost any more?

Yes we have to take responsibility for our opinions if we are espousing them as advice, if we are keeping them to ourselves the only person we can harm, assuming our opinions are bat-sh1t crazy, is our own progress.

Its all an ego problem. You can reframe it any way you like it is still an ego problem. I fully agree with the stages of denial. I've been through them more than once, they get easier and swifter to process.

I didn't label the topic medical denial, simply denial. I don't believe there is an abuse of trust if the Dr's stating their opinions are blind to the truth - a very different matter if they become aware and keep espousing the same opinions to protect their status/security whatever. (Psychopaths excel at this, Fauci et al).

That is more than an abuse of trust, its downright criminal. But as Wade Frazier often points out, and correctly I have concluded, one of the biggest problems with humanity is a lack of integrity.

Very interesting thread, Ewan. I spent years and I mean years as an avid student of Echart Tolle and mistakenly looked at any form of ego as the enemy. I worked and worked on eradicating it. I did gain much from this experience. I learned that the ego is actually just a tool. I need some form of identity to navigate in this reality and an ego or persona is appropriate. The problem arises as I see it when it is no longer a tool but the master. Where I believe my thoughts and understanding are fact and I need to act on that.

I used to literally believe my thoughts were reality. Now I understand and can recognize many times that the ego is creating a narrative to keep me separate so it maintains relevance.I can now go for long periods without thinking about anything other than what I am doing. The imbalanced ego needs drama so it creates thought forms. I realize I don't have to act on them at all. In fact they will pass if I don't energize them. They will float away, that simple. I definitely have not mastered this 100% of the time but I continue to practice recognizing when the ego is wanting drama to validate it exists. One of my personal main issues and I have said this several times on the forum is a tendency of the ego to want to create a scenario where I can mentally obsess with some story line that allows me to feel righteous indignation. I am now aware of it so I can choose to let it go.

Seeing the ego as "the enemy" and total eradication of it is like a dog chasing his tail. But recognition of it and realizing that I don't need to act on it has been a huge game changer for me. But living hell, at least for me was believing all of my thoughts. I believe that cognitive dissonance that is baked into our culture to allow us to do all sorts of things that are insane and actually believe them.

Also, It takes a lot of courage to realize you have been totally duped. I have spent the last few years seeing the absurdity of so much of my life and the craziness of much of what I accepted as truth. If your ego has a strong enough hold on you and you believe your thoughts as always true it would be very easy to totally have blinders on because the ego does not want you doubt it if it is imbalanced and running the show.

It would be much more acceptable for the Doctor to believe the absurd than to admit maybe she made some mistakes, maybe she was wrong. Maybe her career is not so noble as she wanted to believe. Maybe she is playing a role of worldwide genocide. Not to mention cancel culture. So her ego tells her that a common cold caused myocarditis and she may be able to add to mental confirmations that is was a really bad strain of the cold virus.

Understanding the role of the ego and understanding the empathy, narcissism spectrum have really made all this insanity easier to understand.

I just had to come back and share this. I think it is a confirmation of a universe that is very aware of each of us. It is kind of funny and a great example of what I called the unbalanced ego, which I do believe plays a huge role in denial, along with cognitive dissonance.

I gave a personal example of my own inclination to want to create my identity with righteous indignation. I did not make clear the fact, that having righteous indignation might be perfectly appropriate. It's when the story get's played in my head over and over to create the original feelings of it.

This morning I needed to go to the store and there is a volunteer group callled "Friends of the Library" that has been here a long time. I think they used to sell only old library books but they have expanded to take books from people that donate them. I have been there twice. The first time I asked a question about whether there are any kinds of books they don't want. I was met with an eye roll like I was brain dead and a kind of smart ass remark. I explained that I thought they might already have too many of some topics so I was just checking. The volunteer annoyingly told me what they don't take.

They accept books on Mondays and Wednesdays between 9 and noon. I pull up and it says closed but I see people in there so I hopped out of the car and opened the door and asked if they are accepting books today. This place is huge and there must have been 8 volunteers in there. Several right in front of me. A woman comes bolting up from the back of the store. I can see she is angry, almost shaking with anger. Instead of telling me that this particular Wednesday they would not be accepting books she gets right in my face and asks me to read the sign on the door. I read it . It looks like the same sign on orange paper. When I read it, even though I knew it only accepted books on Monday and Wednesday I said Monday through Wednesday. This sent the woman into a even greater state of anger. Correcting me that they do not take them on Tuesday, which I said I realized I simply misspoke. She is screaming at this point. She apparently duplicated the regular sign but had added in small print that they would not be accepting books on 2/8. She wants me to read this out loud, which I didn't. Then she goes on a tirade about before I tell her the website says they are open on these days she had added that it would not be open today and she should know, she handles the website. It was just insane. The other volunteers have their heads down...

Next I did what I love to do in these kind of situations, I smiled at her and thanked her for the great job they are doing on the bookstore. This was not what she wanted. She wanted me to retaliate so she could feel "guess what" righteous indignation at the stupid people that donate books and can't read signs ect. I left her speechless and she looked like a fool.

I could see her narrative is she is a hard working volunteer and people are so stupid or whatever it is and I didn't play the game of getting angry. From a few other things she said a few people had been unhappy to have driven the books down and been turned away by this very nasty lady.

I felt the humor of the universe and actually left chuckling to myself as I got a great example of a ego that is driving the narrative and creating a reality that allows it to feel righteous indignation, or maybe that people are stupid. Even though it means being miserable, she's going with that narrative.

Whatever it is, it was such a perfect example. Instead of enjoying her day volunteering she was creating a reality that was making her so angry and indignant I wouldn't be surprised if she had a heart attack. All of this because someone did not read the sign. It's also interesting to note that the added closure for the day was very small. I don't carefully read a businesses hours before entering. I wonder if subconsciously she kind of set that up. And her eagerness to be the one to teach me to read a sign before I ask questions was just crazy stuff.

The other thing is, the behavior was so over the top,I mean it was comical but it makes me wonder are the vaccines effecting her behavior. I haven't known her but that was bizarre.....anyway I just had to share a great example of the lengths the ego will go when it is running the show versus being a tool that is managed.I bet she believes every thought she has is the gospel truth.
Crazy world....

[Matthew]

Posted by Pam (here)
...

I bet you also gave the other people in there some humor, and respite from The Controlling Child. What a horrible life she must have. Never forget: it takes in the region of 43 muscles to frown, but only about four or so to give someone a slap in the face. Warning: do not actually slap anyone in the face, I'm talking imaginatively not literally. And try not to laugh in their face as you imagine it, that can go down worse than a slap in the face.

[Ewan]

Posted by Ewan (here)
I wanted to talk more about Denial, how difficult it is to see (in yourself).

..snip..

The first book was Fear of Freedom by Erich Fromm. Most critics/reviews describe it as an essay about the psychology of the Nazi. I personally feel it is much more than that.

There was a passage I was reading that gave me an uneasy feeling but I didn't know why. I turned the page and kept reading. The feeling would not desist though so I went back and read it again.

Still nothing - I moved on once more. A few pages later yet this feeling will not leave me, I was missing something.

I returned again to the elusive passage and then I saw it! What I had been failing to see were words that accurately described a part of my own behaviour.. I'd read the thing three or four times and had been completely oblivious to it. That's denial!

Well, what an eye-opener that was, talk about revelation, and afterwards a lot of recrimination. Mostly 'how could I have been so blind?'.


Denial can stare you in the face and you might not even see it. It's called a blind spot, and we all have them.

One of the interesting aspects of the above experience was how it led to much introspection about who 'I' really was.

Who/what was giving me that nagging feeling that I was missing something, and with much hindsight it seemed that another aspect of the same self had tried to hide that information.

It seemed as though there were two I's (and language breaks down here in conveying thought) but I can't now say who is the 'I' experiencing two aspects of self as that would now mean there are three of us - where does it end. I concluded that we are all split personalities in greater or lesser balance depending on the level of awareness - but on a higher level we are just a spectator to an unfolding drama that is our, and everyone else's, story.

As Shakespeare noted ~

"All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts... "

Why the 'sleeping' aspect of a personality rises to get your attention is simply a matter of time combined with the sum of experiences, ~I think.

Musing aloud...

If more people are awakening at this moment in earth's journey might it not explain all the collective madness and doubling down of the less aware as they sense some subliminal fear at the potential rising tsunami that would expose them all.

The psychology of a crowd pertains to the mass of humanity also at some level.

[pueblo]

Great thread, thanks to all contributors....

My take away is that ego becomes a problem when we 'over identify' with it, assuming that this is who and all we truly are and thus giving it free rein as both the driver and navigator of our lives while our true essence sits in the back as the captive passenger.

Perhaps a similar process is at work with people who 'over identify' with the physical body?

[Pam]

Posted by pueblo (here)
Great thread, thanks to all contributors....

My take away is that ego becomes a problem when we 'over identify' with it, assuming that this is who and all we truly are and thus giving it free rein as both the driver and navigator of our lives while our true essence sits in the back as the captive passenger.

Perhaps a similar process is at work with people who 'over identify' with the physical body?

That is the core issue, in a nutshell. I love the way you summed it up in what seems to take me a book writing to try to say the same thing. Lovely and concise.

[thepainterdoug]

LONG ARTICLE WARNING!!! On the EGO by Osho. ITS THE BEST THING i ever read on the topic.



Osho: Ego — The False Center


The first thing to be understood is what ego is. A child is born. A child is born without any knowledge, any consciousness of his own self. And when a child is born the first thing he becomes aware of is not himself; the first thing he becomes aware of is the other. It is natural, because the eyes open outwards, the hands touch others, the ears listen to others, the tongue tastes food and the nose smells the outside. All these senses open outwards.

That is what birth means. Birth means coming into this world, the world of the outside. So when a child is born, he is born into this world. He opens his eyes, sees others. ‘Other’ means the thou. He becomes aware of the mother first. Then, by and by, he becomes aware of his own body. That too is the other, that too belongs to the world. He is hungry and he feels the body; his need is satisfied, he forgets the body.

This is how a child grows. First he becomes aware of you, thou, other, and then by and by, in contrast to you, thou, he becomes aware of himself.

This awareness is a reflected awareness. He is not aware of who he is. He is simply aware of the mother and what she thinks about him. If she smiles, if she appreciates the child, if she says, “You are beautiful,” if she hugs and kisses him, the child feels good about himself. Now an ego is born.

Through appreciation, love, care, he feels he is good, he feels he is valuable, he feels he has some significance.

A center is born.

But this center is a reflected center. It is not his real being. He does not know who he is; he simply knows what others think about him. And this is the ego: the reflection, what others think. If nobody thinks that he is of any use, nobody appreciates him, nobody smiles, then too an ego is born: an ill ego; sad, rejected, like a wound; feeling inferior, worthless. This too is the ego. This too is a reflection.

First the mother – and mother means the world in the beginning. Then others will join the mother, and the world goes on growing. And the more the world grows, the more complex the ego becomes, because many others’ opinions are reflected.

The ego is an accumulated phenomenon, a by-product of living with others. If a child lives totally alone, he will never come to grow an ego. But that is not going to help. He will remain like an animal. That doesn’t mean that he will come to know the real self, no.

The real can be known only through the false, so the ego is a must. One has to pass through it. It is a discipline. The real can be known only through the illusion. You cannot know the truth directly. First you have to know that which is not true. First you have to encounter the untrue. Through that encounter you become capable of knowing the truth. If you know the false as the false, truth will dawn upon you.

Ego is a need; it is a social need, it is a social by-product. The society means all that is around you – not you, but all that is around you. All, minus you, is the society. And everybody reflects. You will go to school and the teacher will reflect who you are. You will be in friendship with other children and they will reflect who you are. By and by, everybody is adding to your ego, and everybody is trying to modify it in such a way that you don’t become a problem to the society.

They are not concerned with you.

They are concerned with the society.

Society is concerned with itself, and that’s how it should be.

They are not concerned that you should become a self-knower. They are concerned that you should become an efficient part in the mechanism of the society. You should fit into the pattern. So they are trying to give you an ego that fits with the society. They teach you morality. Morality means giving you an ego which will fit with the society. If you are immoral, you will always be a misfit somewhere or other. That’s why we put criminals in the prisons – not that they have done something wrong, not that by putting them in the prisons we are going to improve them, no. They simply don’t fit. They are troublemakers. They have certain types of egos of which the society doesn’t approve. If the society approves, everything is good.

One man kills somebody – he is a murderer.

And the same man in wartime kills thousands – he becomes a great hero. The society is not bothered by a murder, but the murder should be commited for the society – then it is okay. The society doesn’t bother about morality.

Morality means only that you should fit with the society.

If the society is at war, then the morality changes.

If the society is at peace, then there is a different morality.

Morality is a social politics. It is diplomacy. And each child has to be brought up in such a way that he fits into the society, that’s all. Because society is interested in efficient members. Society is not interested that you should attain to self-knowledge.

The society creates an ego because the ego can be controlled and manipulated. The self can never be controlled or manipulated. Nobody has ever heard of the society controlling a self – not possible.

And the child needs a center; the child is completely unaware of his own center. The society gives him a center and the child is by and by convinced that this is his center, the ego that society gives.

A child comes back to his home – if he has come first in his class, the whole family is happy. You hug and kiss him, and you take the child on your shoulders and dance and you say, “What a beautiful child! You are a pride to us.” You are giving him an ego, a subtle ego. And if the child comes home dejected, unsuccessful, a failure – he couldn’t pass, or he has just been on the back bench – then nobody appreciates him and the child feels rejected. He will try harder next time, because the center feels shaken.

Ego is always shaken, always in search of food, that somebody should appreciate it. That’s why you continuously ask for attention.

You get the idea of who you are from others.

It is not a direct experience.

It is from others that you get the idea of who you are. They shape your center. This center is false, because you carry your real center. That is nobody’s business. Nobody shapes it.

You come with it.

You are born with it.

So you have two centers. One center you come with, which is given by existence itself. That is the self. And the other center, which is created by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing – and it is a very great trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you. You have to behave in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you. You have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you have to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the society appreciate you, and if it doesn’t, your ego will be shaken. And when the ego is shaken, you don’t know where you are, who you are.

The others have given you the idea.

That idea is the ego.

Try to understand it as deeply as possible, because this has to be thrown. And unless you throw it you will never be able to attain to the self. Because you are addicted to the center, you cannot move, and you cannot look at the self.

And remember, there is going to be an interim period, an interval, when the ego will be shattered, when you will not know who you are, when you will not know where you are going, when all boundaries will melt.

You will simply be confused, a chaos.

Because of this chaos, you are afraid to lose the ego. But it has to be so. One has to pass through the chaos before one attains to the real center.

And if you are daring, the period will be small.

If you are afraid, and you again fall back to the ego, and you again start arranging it, then it can be very, very long; many lives can be wasted.

I have heard: One small child was visiting his grandparents. He was just four years old. In the night when the grandmother was putting him to sleep, he suddenly started crying and weeping and said, “I want to go home. I am afraid of darkness.” But the grandmother said, “I know well that at home also you sleep in the dark; I have never seen a light on. So why are you afraid here?” The boy said, “Yes, that’s right – but that is MY darkness.” This darkness is completely unknown.

Even with darkness you feel, “This is MINE.”

Outside – an unknown darkness.

With the ego you feel, “This is MY darkness.”

It may be troublesome, maybe it creates many miseries, but still mine. Something to hold to, something to cling to, something underneath the feet; you are not in a vacuum, not in an emptiness. You may be miserable, but at least you ARE. Even being miserable gives you a feeling of ‘I am’. Moving from it, fear takes over; you start feeling afraid of the unknown darkness and chaos – because society has managed to clear a small part of your being.

It is just like going to a forest. You make a little clearing, you clear a little ground; you make fencing, you make a small hut; you make a small garden, a lawn, and you are okay. Beyond your fence – the forest, the wild. Here everything is okay; you have planned everything. This is how it has happened.

Society has made a little clearing in your consciousness. It has cleaned just a little part completely, fenced it. Everything is okay there. That’s what all your universities are doing. The whole culture and conditioning is just to clear a part so that you can feel at home there.

And then you become afraid.

Beyond the fence there is danger.

Beyond the fence you are, as within the fence you are – and your conscious mind is just one part, one-tenth of your whole being. Nine-tenths is waiting in the darkness. And in that nine-tenths, somewhere your real center is hidden.

One has to be daring, courageous.

One has to take a step into the unknown.

For a while all boundaries will be lost.

For a while you will feel dizzy.

For a while, you will feel very afraid and shaken, as if an earthquake has happened. But if you are courageous and you don’t go backwards, if you don’t fall back to the ego and you go on and on, there is a hidden center within you that you have been carrying for many lives.

That is your soul, the self.

Once you come near it, everything changes, everything settles again. But now this settling is not done by the society. Now everything becomes a cosmos, not a chaos; a new order arises.

But this is no longer the order of the society – it is the very order of existence itself.

It is what Buddha calls Dhamma, Lao Tzu calls Tao, Heraclitus calls Logos. It is not man-made. It is the VERY order of existence itself. Then everything is suddenly beautiful again, and for the first time really beautiful, because man-made things cannot be beautiful. At the most you can hide the ugliness of them, that’s all. You can decorate them, but they can never be beautiful.

The difference is just like the difference between a real flower and a plastic or paper flower. The ego is a plastic flower – dead. It just looks like a flower, it is not a flower. You cannot really call it a flower. Even linguistically to call it a flower is wrong, because a flower is something which flowers. And this plastic thing is just a thing, not a flowering. It is dead. There is no life in it.

You have a flowering center within. That’s why Hindus call it a lotus – it is a flowering. They call it the one-thousand-petaled-lotus. One thousand means infinite petals. And it goes on flowering, it never stops, it never dies.

But you are satisfied with a plastic ego.

There are some reasons why you are satisfied. With a dead thing, there are many conveniences. One is that a dead thing never dies. It cannot – it was never alive. So you can have plastic flowers, they are good in a way. They are permanent; they are not eternal, but they are permanent.

The real flower outside in the garden is eternal, but not permanent. And the eternal has its own way of being eternal. The way of the eternal is to be born again and again and to die. Through death it refreshes itself, rejuvenates itself.

To us it appears that the flower has died – it never dies.

It simply changes bodies, so it is ever fresh.

It leaves the old body, it enters a new body. It flowers somewhere else; it goes on flowering.

But we cannot see the continuity because the continuity is invisible. We see only one flower, another flower; we never see the continuity.

It is the same flower which flowered yesterday.

It is the same sun, but in a different garb.

The ego has a certain quality – it is dead. It is a plastic thing. And it is very easy to get it, because others give it. You need not seek it, there is no search involved. That’s why unless you become a seeker after the unknown, you have not yet become an individual. You are just a part of the crowd. You are just a mob.

When you don’t have a real center, how can you be an individual?

The ego is not individual. Ego is a social phenomenon – it is society, its not you. But it gives you a function in the society, a hierarchy in the society. And if you remain satisfied with it, you will miss the whole opportunity of finding the self.

And that’s why you are so miserable.

With a plastic life, how can you be happy?

With a false life, how can you be ecstatic and blissful? And then this ego creates many miseries, millions of them.

You cannot see, because it is your own darkness. You are attuned to it.

Have you ever noticed that all types of miseries enter through the ego? It cannot make you blissful; it can only make you miserable.

Ego is hell.

Whenever you suffer, just try to watch and analyze, and you will find, somewhere the ego is the cause of it. And the ego goes on finding causes to suffer.

You are an egoist, as everyone is. Some are very gross, just on the surface, and they are not so difficult. Some are very subtle, deep down, and they are the real problems.

This ego comes continuously in conflict with others because every ego is so unconfident about itself. Is has to be – it is a false thing. When you don’t have anything in your hand and you just think that something is there, then there will be a problem.

If somebody says, “There is nothing,” immediately the fight will start, because you also feel that there is nothing. The other makes you aware of the fact.

Ego is false, it is nothing.

That you also know.

How can you miss knowing it? It is impossible! A conscious being – how can he miss knowing that this ego is just false? And then others say that there is nothing – and whenever the others say that there is nothing they hit a wound, they say a truth – and nothing hits like the truth.

You have to defend, because if you don’t defend, if you don’t become defensive, then where will you be?

You will be lost.

The identity will be broken.

So you have to defend and fight – that is the clash.

A man who attains to the self is never in any clash. Others may come and clash with him, but he is never in clash with anybody.

It happened that one Zen master was passing through a street. A man came running and hit him hard. The master fell down. Then he got up and started to walk in the same direction in which he was going before, not even looking back.

A disciple was with the master. He was simply shocked. He said, “Who is this man? What is this? If one lives in such a way, then anybody can come and kill you. And you have not even looked at that person, who he is, and why he did it.”

The master said, “That is his problem, not mine.”

You can clash with an enlightened man, but that is your problem, not his. And if you are hurt in that clash, that too is your own problem. He cannot hurt you. And it is like knocking against a wall – you will be hurt, but the wall has not hurt you.

The ego is always looking for some trouble. Why? Because if nobody pays attention to you, the ego feels hungry.

It lives on attention.

So even if somebody is fighting and angry with you, that too is good because at least the attention is paid. If somebody loves, it is okay. If somebody is not loving you, then even anger will be good. At least the attention will come to you. But if nobody is paying any attention to you, nobody thinks that you are somebody important, significant, then how will you feed your ego?

Other’s attention is needed.

In millions of ways you attract the attention of others; you dress in a certain way, you try to look beautiful, you behave, you become very polite, you change. When you feel what type of situation is there, you immediately change so that people pay attention to you.

This is a deep begging.

A real beggar is one who asks for and demands attention. And a real emperor is one who lives in himself; he has a center of his own, he doesn’t depend on anybody else.

Buddha sitting under his bodhi tree…if the whole world suddenly disappears, will it make any difference to Buddha? -none. It will not make any difference at all. If the whole world disappears, it will not make any difference because he has attained to the center.

But you, if the wife escapes, divorces you, goes to somebody else, you are completely shattered – because she had been paying attention to you, caring, loving, moving around you, helping you to feel that you were somebody. Your whole empire is lost, you are simply shattered. You start thinking about suicide. Why? Why, if a wife leaves you, should you commit suicide? Why, if a husband leaves you, should you commit suicide? Because you don’t have any center of your own. The wife was giving you the center; the husband was giving you the center.

This is how people exist. This is how people become dependent on others. It is a deep slavery. Ego HAS to be a slave. It depends on others. And only a person who has no ego is for the first time a master; he is no longer a slave. Try to understand this.

And start looking for the ego – not in others, that is not your business, but in yourself. Whenever you feel miserable, immediately close you eyes and try to find out from where the misery is coming and you will always find it is the false center which has clashed with someone.

You expected something, and it didn’t happen.

You expected something, and just the contrary happened – your ego is shaken, you are in misery. Just look, whenever you are miserable, try to find out why.

Causes are not outside you. The basic cause is within you – but you always look outside, you always ask:

Who is making me miserable?

Who is the cause of my anger?

Who is the cause of my anguish?

And if you look outside you will miss.

Just close the eyes and always look within.

The source of all misery, anger, anguish, is hidden in you, your ego.

And if you find the source, it will be easy to move beyond it. If you can see that it is your own ego that gives you trouble, you will prefer to drop it – because nobody can carry the source of misery if he understands it.

And remember, there is no need to drop the ego.

You cannot drop it.

If you try to drop it, you will attain to a certain subtle ego again which says, “I have become humble.”

Don’t try to be humble. That’s again ego in hiding – but it’s not dead.

Don’t try to be humble.

Nobody can try humility, and nobody can create humility through any effort of his own – no. When the ego is no more, a humbleness comes to you. It is not a creation. It is a shadow of the real center.

And a really humble man is neither humble nor egoistic.

He is simply simple.

He’s not even aware that he is humble.

If you are aware that you are humble, the ego is there.

Look at humble persons…. There are millions who think that they are very humble. They bow down very low, but watch them – they are the subtlest egoists. Now humility is their source of food. They say, “I am humble,” and then they look at you and they wait for you to appreciate them.

“You are really humble,” they would like you to say. “In fact, you are the most humble man in the world; nobody is as humble as you are.” Then see the smile that comes on their faces.

What is ego? Ego is a hierarchy that says, “No one is like me.” It can feed on humbleness – “Nobody is like me, I am the most humble man.”

It happened once:

A fakir, a beggar, was praying in a mosque, just early in the morning when it was still dark. It was a certain religious day for Mohammedians, and he was praying, and he was saying, “I am nobody. I am the poorest of the poor, the greatest sinner of sinners.”

Suddenly there was one more person who was praying. He was the emperor of that country, and he was not aware that there was somebody else there who was praying – it was dark, and the emperor was also saying:

“I am nobody. I am nothing. I am just empty, a beggar at our door.” When he heard that somebody else was saying the same thing, he said, “Stop! Who is trying to overtake me? Who are you? How dare you say before the emperor that you are nobody when he is saying that he is nobody?”

This is how the ego goes. It is so subtle. Its ways are so subtle and cunning; you have to be very, very alert, only then will you see it. Don’t try to be humble. Just try to see that all misery, all anguish comes through it.

Just watch! No need to drop it.

You cannot drop it. Who will drop it? Then the DROPPER will become the ego. It always comes back.

Whatsoever you do, stand out of it, and look and watch.

Whatsoever you do – humbleness, humility, simplicity – nothing will help. Only one thing is possible, and that is just to watch and see that it is the source of all misery. Don’t say it. Don’t repeat it – WATCH. Because if I say it is the source of all misery and you repeat it, then it is useless. YOU have to come to that understanding. Whenever you are miserable, just close the eyes and don’t try to find some cause outside. Try to see from where this misery is coming.

It is your own ego.

If you continuously feel and understand, and the understanding that the ego is the cause becomes so deep-rooted, one day you will suddenly see that it has disappeared. Nobody drops it – nobody can drop it. You simply see; it has simply disappeared, because the very understanding that ego causes all misery becomes the dropping. THE VERY UNDERSTANDING IS THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THE EGO.

And you are so clever in seeing the ego in others. Anybody can see someone else’s ego. When it comes to your own, then the problem arises – because you don’t know the territory, you have never traveled on it.

The whole path towards the divine, the ultimate, has to pass through this territory of the ego. The false has to be understood as false. The source of misery has to be understood as the source of misery – then it simply drops.

When you know it is poison, it drops. When you know it is fire, it drops. When you know this is the hell, it drops.

And then you never say, “I have dropped the ego.” Then you simply laugh at the whole thing, the joke that you were the creator of all misery.

I was just looking at a few cartoons of Charlie Brown. In one cartoon he is playing with blocks, making a house out of children’s blocks. He is sitting in the middle of the blocks building the walls. Then a moment comes when he is enclosed; all around he has made a wall. Then he cries, “Help, help!”

He has done the whole thing! Now he is enclosed, imprisoned. This is childish, but this is all that you have done also. You have made a house all around yourself, and now you are crying, “Help, help!” And the misery becomes a millionfold – because there are helpers who are also in the same boat.

It happened that one very beautiful woman went to see her psychiatrist for the first time. The psychiatrist said, “Come closer please.” When she came closer, he simply jumped and hugged and kissed the woman. She was shocked. Then he said, “Now sit down. This takes care of my problem, now what is your problem?”

The problem becomes multifold, because there are helpers who are in the same boat. And they would like to help, because when you help somebody the ego feels very good, very, very good – because you are a great helper, a great guru, a master; you are helping so many people. The greater the crowd of your followers, the better you feel.

But you are in the same boat – you cannot help.

Rather, you will harm.

People who still have their own problems cannot be of much help. Only someone who has no problems of his own can help you. Only then is there the clarity to see, to see through you. A mind that has no problems of its own can see you, you become transparent.

A mind that has no problems of its own can see through itself; that’s why it becomes capable of seeing through others.

In the West, there are many schools of psychoanalysis, many schools, and no help is reaching people, but rather, harm. Because the people who are helping others, or trying to help, or posing as helpers, are in the same boat.

…It is difficult to see one’s own ego.

It is very easy to see other’s egos. But that is not the point, you cannot help them.

Try to see your own ego.

Just watch it.

Don’t be in a hurry to drop it, just watch it. The more you watch, the more capable you will become. Suddenly one day, you simply see that it has dropped. And when it drops by itself, only then does it drop. There is no other way. Prematurely you cannot drop it.

It drops just like a dead leaf.

The tree is not doing anything – just a breeze, a situation, and the dead leaf simply drops. The tree is not even aware that the dead leaf has dropped. It makes no noise, it makes no claim – nothing.

The dead leaf simply drops and shatters on the ground, just like that.

When you are mature through understanding, awareness, and you have felt totally that ego is the cause of all your misery, simply one day you see the dead leaf dropping.

It settles into the ground, dies of its own accord. You have not done anything so you cannot claim that you have dropped it. You see that it has simply disappeared, and then the real center arises.

And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or whatsoever you want to call it.

It is nameless, so all names are good.

You can give it any name of your own liking.

Mindfulness and Ego

Mindfulness can’t be used in any selfish way, either. It is nonegoistic alertness. There is no ‘me’ in a state of pure mindfulness. So there is no self to be selfish. On the contrary, it is mindfulness which gives you the real perspective on yourself. It allows you to take that crucial mental step backward from your own desires and aversions so that you can then look and say, “Ah ha, so that’s how I really am.”

In a state of mindfulness, you see yourself exactly as you are. You see your own selfish behavior. You see your own suffering. And you see how you create that suffering. You see how you hurt others. You pierce right through the layer of lies that you normally tell yourself and you see what is really there. Mindfulness leads to wisdom.

Question on Ego

Question – Can we not love and accept our head, our mind, our ego, as part of the whole life? Why reject them?

Osho – I have not told you to reject them. How can you reject something which is not? I have been telling you only to see, to look into them. I am not telling you to reject them – rejected they will remain, rejected they will remain deep in your unconscious, repressed. They will remain. Rejection means repression. What will you do? Rejected they will not disappear, they will move into the dark corner of your soul and they will function from there.

No, I am the last person to tell you to reject. I don’t say ’reject the darkness’, I only say ’bring light’. Bring a lamp and see around – where is darkness? It disappears. It is not to be rejected, it cannot be rejected. Look into your ego and it starts disappearing. Not that you reject it, not that you do anything to it – with just a deep insight into it, it disappears. It exists only because you have not looked into it.

It is like a shadow. You are walking and the shadow follows you. Now, if you are alone and in a desert, or in a cemetery, and you become afraid that somebody is following you, you start running. And the more you run, the more the shadow runs with you. Then you become even more afraid and the logical mind will say ’Run faster.’ This way you will not be able to win.

Go faster and faster! But how are you going to win? You can go as fast as you can but the shadow will be with you. All that is needed is to stand and turn around – a hundred and eighty degree about-turn – and look into the shadow. There is nobody. It is your shadow. It is just a shadow. A shadow means nothing. It exists not. That very moment the shadow has disappeared. By disappearance I mean it will not affect you any more. It will not be powerful over you any more. It will not make you frightened any more.

You say: CAN WE NOT LOVE AND ACCEPT OUR HEAD, OUR MIND, OUR EGO, AS PART OF THE WHOLE LIFE? It is impossible because the very mechanism of the ego is that the part tries to pretend, the part tries to claim that it is the whole. That is the whole problem. The ego says ’I am the whole.’ The ego is not ready to accept that it is only a part. The ego says ’I am the king and I am the whole.’

How can you love the ego and accept it as a part? That is the very thing the ego denies. It says ’I am not the part, I am the whole.’ The part claiming to be the whole is what the ego is all about. The head claims ’I am the whole.’

CAN WE NOT LOVE AND ACCEPT OUR HEAD, OUR MIND, OUR EGO, AS PART OF THE WHOLE LIFE? No, there is no way. You will have to look into the ego. When the ego disappears you will know what the whole is – otherwise the ego goes on pretending that it is the whole. And you will never know the whole.

When the ego has disappeared, when no part claims to be the whole, then the whole comes into existence, starts functioning on its own. Then there is great accord, great harmony. And you cannot love the ego because who are you? The ego says that you are not separate. The ego claims your totality. The ego is your identity. When you say ’Can I not love my ego?’ do you think you have two ’I’s? ’I’ and the ego? Who is going to love whom? It is a trick of the ego. The question is from the ego. The ego is trying to befool you.

The ego is saying, ’Why destroy me? Can’t you love me?’ But who are you? If you know yourself as separate from the ego then the question will not arise. Then you have come to be your soul, you have attained to your centre. And in that very attainment there is no ego, there is nobody left to love. And if you think that you can love the ego then you are not. This is the dilemma. If the ego is, you are not. If you are, the ego disappears. They cannot both exist together, just like darkness and light cannot exist together.

And you ask, ’Why can’t one love the ego?’ The ego is the destroyer of all possibilities of love. It kills the heart. It makes it impossible to love. Love disappears. You become a desert, a wasteland. Love no longer grows in you. How are you going to love the ego? Love is not there. If you start being loving you will find the ego disappearing. If love starts flowing in you, you will not find any ego in yourself. Then the heart will become your centre.

That’s what Sufis call heart-wakefulness. Then the heart wakes. And the moment the heart wakes, the head disappears. The head can function only while the heart is asleep. It is – as Gurdjieff used to say – as if the master of the house is asleep and the watchman pretends to be the master. If somebody comes, the watchman talks as if he is the master. And the master is asleep. Then the master awakes and he comes out – the watchman again becomes a servant. He is no more a master. He cannot pretend. The master is present.

Have you not seen it happening in a class of small children? The master is not there, the teacher is not there, and they are all shouting and screaming and doing a thousand and one things. And then comes the master. Suddenly they are sitting at their desks. Everybody is reading very concentratedly, as if there had been no noise, no chaos. What has happened? His very presence has been a transformation.

It happens exactly like that inside you. When you are awake, ego disappears. Then your head and your mind become your servants. You cannot accept them, you cannot reject them, you have only to understand them. And then all happens of its own accord.

Excerpt from Beyond the Frontier of the Mind by Osho

Excellence Reporter 2022

[Miller]

Relevant to this thread perhaps is the phrase "following the science", which was hijacked by the government during the Covid crisis.

"Following the science" became the slogan for government restrictions, including lockdown, all advice relating to Covid, and was spouted (daily) every time there was a press announcement. Google defines science as "the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence". Given what we now know, following the science has rendered science into a questionable source, if not disrepute. Yet they're still saying it.

Aren't all the professions loaded with layers of ego? Most of them have glossaries which the lay person could never penetrate and so remain conceptual to most of us.

[mizo]

This tweet popped up on my feed, thought I'd share it on here.

[Matthew]

Posted by mizo (here)
This tweet popped up on my feed, thought I'd share it on here.

How the ego turns hurtful... But what about when the ego functions as it should without being hurtful? How tempting is it to project our own failings onto this perpetrator called the ego. Almost sounds like the ego is hurtful not the person.

As for "On the EGO by Osho." it says ego is evil. I wouldn't be so cruel myself, because your ego is you. It's like saying my hands are evil.

[Miller]

Posted by Matthew (here)

How the ego turns hurtful... But what about when the ego functions as it should without being hurtful? How tempting is it to project our own failings onto this perpetrator called the ego. Almost sounds like the ego is hurtful not the person.

As for "On the EGO by Osho." it says ego is evil. I wouldn't be so cruel myself, because your ego is you. It's like saying my hands are evil.

This is an interesting point and relates to a comment on another thread by Pam, which was to the effect that our microbes sometimes dictate our behaviour because of their own needs. How much of our behaviour is "them" and not "us" (not that it would stand up in Court I'm sure )

[Pam]

Posted by mizo (here)
This tweet popped up on my feed, thought I'd share it on here.

That is really cool, mizo. I love the simple way it is presented. I would love to have a copy of that to pen up on my wall. A simple truthful reminder. Non judgemental, just helpful.

[Matthew]

Posted by Miller (here)

Posted by Matthew (here)

How the ego turns hurtful... But what about when the ego functions as it should without being hurtful? How tempting is it to project our own failings onto this perpetrator called the ego. Almost sounds like the ego is hurtful not the person.

As for "On the EGO by Osho." it says ego is evil. I wouldn't be so cruel myself, because your ego is you. It's like saying my hands are evil.

This is an interesting point and relates to a comment on another thread by Pam, which was to the effect that our microbes sometimes dictate our behaviour because of their own needs. How much of our behaviour is "them" and not "us" (not that it would stand up in Court I'm sure )

I was trying to make the point we should own undesirable egotistical behavior instead of scapegoating it as 'the ego'. Challenging egotistical behavior we still use our ego afterwards when we're not 'egotistical'. For my own mental health I won't be blaming my own failings on 'the ego' or microbes.