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Thread: Avatar: The Way of Water

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    Switzerland Avalon Member Nasu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    IMHO I thought it was a total load of rubbish, a very long winded load of rubbish. Sure great visuals but zero story, zero effort put into the character development. After the first hour or so I realized that i don't care about any of the protagonists, human or otherwise, amazing cgi animals and water scenes but that's it.

    The story from the first movie is about a human soldier who is sent via an avatar into an alien society to spy on them so as to discover their weaknesses and attempt to move them from their current location above a huge deposit of the metal or mineral that underpins the reason for humans being on the planet, he eventually falls in love and empathizes with the plight of said aliens against the cruel and mean human interlopers, who have advanced technology and who are dead set on mining the planet of Pandora for Unabtamium, a rare metal/mineral used in human technology. I liked the visuals and the story, it was a modern dances with wolves type deal, whereby the low tech inhabitants finally band together and oust the human interlopers.

    Ten years or so later, comes this second movie...

    Our human / avatar character has settled down and had kids and is living in peace on Pandora, when the dastardly humans come back, this time better prepared and better armed in order to mine the planet again. Once again our main guy attacks them with his tribe, but decides he is too much of a threat to his tribe so leaves, presumably leaving them to fight on without him or his leadership. He takes his family to a distant tribe who mostly live underwater to hide out. This new tribe doesn't like him or his family. Meanwhile the humans are up to their old games of destroying everything, natural resources and animals, so now he has to fight again, with his new tribe. They beat the humans, again and finally his new tribe accept them all as family.

    Presumably the next movie will have him move on again to hide his family and then fight with a new tribe like the old Hulk series or Cane from Kung foo, forever moving on, perhaps this next tribe will live underground, the way of caves or something similarly banal. Eventually one hopes they kick out those pesky humans once and for all, or maybe become pals, who the hell cares...

    In a nutshell, incredible graphics, long sh!t story. If you haven't seen it, don't, have a nice long bath instead, much more meaningful.........x.......... N

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    The best film to come out this year Bill was "Everything Everywhere All at Once" the winner of seven Oscars at the 2023 Academy Awards. The last time I walked out the Cinema and felt like this was in 1999 after watching the Matrix. After the film I stood with my back against the wall people watching people exit the cinema. Nobody who came out was the same as the one who had entered. We had all been shifted!

    ps. Don't watch any trailer! It will ruin the experience.
    Thanks for the recommendation! I've not watched it yet, but here it is, download available for 7 days.

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    South Africa Avalon Member arwen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    The best film to come out this year Bill was "Everything Everywhere All at Once" the winner of seven Oscars at the 2023 Academy Awards. The last time I walked out the Cinema and felt like this was in 1999 after watching the Matrix. After the film I stood with my back against the wall people watching people exit the cinema. Nobody who came out was the same as the one who had entered. We had all been shifted!

    ps. Don't watch any trailer! It will ruin the experience.
    I absolutely agree. It was a rare movie that had me utterly riveted the entire way through.

    On Avatar: The Way of the Water - yes, the boring war scenes made it overly long, and the predictable narratives made me irritated but the ocean scenes were exquisite.

    I do have to say it - ever since the first Avatar movie, and then Corey Goode's "Blue Avians" - I have always wondered if he got the idea for the Blue Avians from the movie Avatar...

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Thanks for the view.

    It was a great cartoon!

    I really liked the scenes with Spider in them.

    There's still that disconnect between the character and the environment - like they are floating on air and the laws of physics don't apply to them.

    Nice fake scenery. Good caricature. Clever new imaginal animals. Same old nasty humans. The end.

    I hear there are going to be more of these made?
    Can hardly wait.
    The first one was good...
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I may have been one of the few who'd not seen this yet, and yesterday the high quality version was released on DVD. Here it is, a download available for 7 days:
    It was an interesting viewing experience. Many critics have reviewed this far more eloquently (and critically!) than I could easily do in a short post here, but my briefest summary is that it's a mixed feast.

    I had no idea of the storyline when I came to watch it last night, and groaned when it soon became evident. I groaned again when the shallowness and triteness of the dialog also showed itself immediately.

    In 13 years, couldn't they have come up with at least a little more subtlety, character and depth?? There seemed to me to be little or no clever new invention that had wowed audiences (and critics, and me) back in 2010. A lot of it was really a kind of copy-and-paste with one or two sparkly trinkets added to make it only slightly different in concept.

    But (of course) the CGI visuals were staggering. Much of it is set underwater in a coral reef ocean environment, and that was something very special, well worth the long film for that alone. I'd have happily skipped all the set-piece (and predictable!) warfare scenes just to wonder at the magical and marvelous Pandora sealife, all on its own.

    This extract from one of the many critics strongly struck me. (The reviews on Rotten Tomatoes are sometimes even more entertaining than the film. ) The last paragraph was very acutely observed.

    ~~~
    Where the first Avatar had a negative eye towards mankind with its Dances with Wolves inspired love story set on an exotic world, Avatar: The Way of Water goes full Extinction Rebellion in its portrayal of mankind as not only as the destructor of its own world, but the ravager of another.

    The film's human characters are portrayed as cruel, violent, and stubborn (which, coincidentally is how many describe Cameron’s behaviour when on set). Cameron’s representation of the marine characters in the film, led once again by the always formidable Stephan Lang, is almost comical in their cavalier brutality. An extended sequence, in which Quaritch leads a group of scientists on a hunt of Pandora’s whale species, feels more like a PDA from Sea Shepherd.

    The result is something of a bizarro alien invasion movie. With Avatar: The Way of Water it is clear the threat is us. Where the Na’vi are shown as an almost perfect species that are in perfect sync with their environment, the human species - who are essentially refugees fleeing their dying planet – are pure agents of destruction.

    It wasn’t always this way with Cameron. His two Terminator movies, in which time travelling future warriors protect present day mankind from a robot uprising, was not only filled with high stakes and engrossing storytelling, but presented humanity as worth saving. Somewhere between the Earth and the sea, Cameron had lost hope in mankind.
    ~~~

    As a personal note, I confess to empathizing with Cameron, despite his predictable film-making-by-numbers — saved by the extraordinary and wonderful CGI natural world he creates. I've addressed this peripherally on a couple of threads, which I can comment on more below if anyone's interested.
    Edit to add

    And also this fascinating claim, which has always struck me as real:
    Sounds like a Disney movie ... wonder how much their hands were in this.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    UK Avalon Member mizo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    The best film to come out this year Bill was "Everything Everywhere All at Once" the winner of seven Oscars at the 2023 Academy Awards. The last time I walked out the Cinema and felt like this was in 1999 after watching the Matrix. After the film I stood with my back against the wall people watching people exit the cinema. Nobody who came out was the same as the one who had entered. We had all been shifted!

    ps. Don't watch any trailer! It will ruin the experience.
    Thanks for the recommendation! I've not watched it yet, but here it is, download available for 7 days.
    Thank you! I've now watched it twice -a tad overlong maybe, but thoroughly enjoyable. (Didn't fall asleep either) I particularly enjoyed Michelle Yeoh's role -I read today she won the Oscar for best actress.

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    If depressed by Avatard, fear not !

    There is a quirky, low budget, sci-fi flick, you may enjoy : ALIENATED (2021)
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10364272/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
    BLURB: David Bennett, a struggling OCD (dirt triggers a panic attack) scientist (Michael Aaron Carico) with father issues has a life-altering encounter with a UFO and winds up falling for Jordan Waters (Gracie Lacey) a quirky and mysterious female artist who, unbeknownst to him, turns out to be an alien (with a strange taste in clothing) who's being hunted by Ray Watts (Paul Hayes), a determined conspiracy theorist.
    It has some “interesting” physics dialogue that’s unusual for a mass market movie.
    One of the writers channels the extraterrestrial entity, Bashar. Many of the plot points are directly from Bashar's messages. For example, Bashar has said, that movement through space was done because everything in space time has a vibration which includes a location component. Superimpose a different location vibration on an object and that object just moves to the new location. End result, interstellar travel.

    Currently available on Amazon Prime

    This trailer is lame - but the movie isn’t.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPwSXe6j_Y4
    . . . .
    And then there’s the HISTORY OF FUTURE FOLK (2012)
    The possibly exaggerated origin story of the real life alien bluegrass band, Future Folk, that has been playing for NYC audiences for the better part of a decade. (Wink,wink,nod,nod)
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2245195/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
    One reviewer summed it up : If this doesn't warm your heart I'm sorry. You ain't got one.
    {Watch out for the "Tickle Monster" !}
    It’s been dropped from Netflix, but now YouTube has it “free”.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2oKGSmr9oo

    The trailer does a great job without divulging too much “good stuff.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZrDALCsKwI

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Addendum : THE MAN FROM EARTH (2007)
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0756683/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0
    Available on FREEVEE.
    An impromptu goodbye party for Professor John Oldman becomes a mysterious interrogation after the retiring scholar reveals to his colleagues he has a longer and stranger past than they can imagine.

    Written by Jerome Bixby (Star Trek, Twilight Zone), who also wrote the episode Requiem for Methusaleh. Several Star Trek alumnae also star in the movie.

    SPOILER ALERT
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth
    (The article reveals the BIG SECRET - that he was born in the Paleolithic period. He states that he has lived for more than 14 millennia... but that's not all.)

    The trailer - - -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mOIxyRTY5I

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Just finished Avatar II ...

    As for as movie making goes, this ticked all the boxes. Extremely well made in every conceivable area. The pacing great, perhaps it was a little fast in places - resulting in very slow or lack of character development, but that aside, the pace worked well with the length of the movie to keep you engaged.

    I do see the point in Bill's opening post on this thread about the only quality portrayed here by humans was evil, war, death, and destruction to the point it seemed like that was the take home message. Connectedness, compassion, love and joy were portrayed, but strictly as alien qualities.

    I somewhat suspect, and hope at least, that the next movie will get back to a more broad portrayal of humanity in other qualities than what was portrayed here.

    All in all though, not a bad movie, and quite entertaining.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 6th April 2023 at 05:36.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    "I do see the point in Bill's opening post on this thread about the only quality portrayed here by humans was evil, war, death, and destruction to the point it seemed like that was the take home message."



    "Connectedness, compassion, love and joy were portrayed, but strictly as alien qualities."

    Yeah, like showed in all abductions and their results world wide...

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    I find the adrenochrome analogy particularly disturbing.

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    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Watched both, not my piece of cake. Boring story with absolutely amazing CGI.
    Anyway, in terms of film/movies I do prefer a good story over amazing graphics, better if both.

    "Valerian and the city of a thousand planets" (from 2017) is a much better option to Avatar, not many people knows about this movie.
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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    Great Britain Avalon Member Jambo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Quote Posted by s7e6e (here)
    I find the adrenochrome analogy particularly disturbing.
    I hadn't spotted that, but totally agree now that you've pointed it out.

    SPOILERS - If you haven't watched the film then please stop reading.

    So true... the extraction of that yellow liquid from the brains of those avatar planet's whale-like creatures ($80 million per vial?), that can extend the life of the richest humans from earth does follow that idea.
    Good observation!
    Last edited by Jambo; 7th April 2023 at 13:58.

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    "Valerian and the city of a thousand planets" (from 2017) is a much better option to Avatar, not many people knows about this movie.
    I saw Valerian and the city of a thousand idiots.
    The introductory montage was more entertaining than the rest of the movie.
    :
    :
    :
    [spoiler alert]
    :
    :
    :
    Alpha Station is sent off to “journey into the unknown...”
    FOUR Centuries later, it has traveled <ahem> 700 million miles since it left the terrestrial orbit... says the computer.

    Wait. Are these people IDIOTS?
    Jupiter's Aphelion = 8.16x 10^11 meters (5.45 AU) or 507.03 x 10^6 miles.
    They barely got past Jupiter’s orbit and they’re in another star system?

    Whoever wrote it, was a science illiterate, unable to deal with big numbers.
    Also, the actors were gawful, or were poorly directed. And didn't quite represent the comic book personalities - especially the "girl out of her time" Laureline. She's from the 10th century, and not a super savvy techno-babe.
    . . . . . .
    In contrast, the French-Japanese cartoon was far better.
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0429462/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_4
    Time-Jam - Valérian & Laureline
    Original title: Valérian & Laureline
    TV Series: 2007–2008 (40 episodes)



    PLOT
    Time Jam

    Space Time Agent trainee Valerian breaks the first rule of time travel and rescues Laureline, a girl about to be executed in 10th century France. The resulting shock wave alters the universe. When he and Laureline return to the future, Earth has disappeared and it is up to them both to repair the damage they caused. Hopefully without writing themselves out of existence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_J..._%26_Laureline

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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Speaking of far better writing -
    Titan A.E. (2000)
    (after Earth)

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120913..._flmg_t_25_act
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_A.E.

    Titan A.E. is a 2000 American animated science fiction film directed by Don Bluth and Gary Goldman, and starring Matt Damon, Bill Pullman, John Leguizamo, Nathan Lane, Janeane Garofalo and Drew Barrymore. Its title refers to the spacecraft central to the plot with A.E. meaning "After Earth". The animation of the film combines 2D traditional hand-drawn animation with the extensive use of computer-generated imagery.

    The film tells the story of a young man who, after a hostile alien species destroys Earth, receives a mission to save humanity and protect the giant ship his father designed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK7huyUD3i8

    Akima: You can't call a planet "Bob."
    Cale: So now you're the boss. You're the King of Bob.
    Akima: Can't we just call it "Earth"?
    Cale: No one said you have to live on Bob.
    Akima: I'm never calling it that.

    Spoofed by another movie, "Escape from Planet Earth" (2012). The aliens are from Planet Baab ("Bob").
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765446/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1



    Astronaut Scorch Supernova finds himself caught in a trap when he responds to an SOS from a notoriously dangerous alien planet... the "Dark Planet" (Earth)

    Lots of great tongue-in-cheek humor.
    When Scorch (Brendan Fraser) signs his name to the floor it is revealed that many fictional characters have already "signed" their name as well. Among these are ALF (1986), Arthur, Barf, Bender, Beta Ray Bill, Bucky O'Hare, Chewie, Dr. Hephaestus, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982), EVA, Gazoo, Godzilla (1954), Goku, Gonzo, Gozer, Greedo, HAL-9000, IO, Johnny-5, Kal-El, Khan, Kerrigan, Klaatu, Leeloo, Lion-O, Marvin, Mew, Mork, Mulder, Nessie, Odo, Paul, Ratchet, Riddick, Ripley, Santa, Spock, Stitch, Sue, The Thing, Tinkey Winkey, Venom, WALL·E (2008), Wicket, Yogurt, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Zartog, Zeus, Zim, and Zuul.

    Trailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkJXlIPPYe0

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    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    "Valerian and the city of a thousand planets" (from 2017) is a much better option to Avatar, not many people knows about this movie.
    I saw Valerian and the city of a thousand idiots.
    The introductory montage was more entertaining than the rest of the movie.
    :
    :
    :
    [spoiler alert]
    :
    :
    :
    Alpha Station is sent off to “journey into the unknown...”
    FOUR Centuries later, it has traveled <ahem> 700 million miles since it left the terrestrial orbit... says the computer.

    Wait. Are these people IDIOTS?
    Jupiter's Aphelion = 8.16x 10^11 meters (5.45 AU) or 507.03 x 10^6 miles.
    They barely got past Jupiter’s orbit and they’re in another star system?

    Whoever wrote it, was a science illiterate, unable to deal with big numbers.
    Also, the actors were gawful, or were poorly directed. And didn't quite represent the comic book personalities - especially the "girl out of her time" Laureline. She's from the 10th century, and not a super savvy techno-babe.
    . . . . . .
    In contrast, the French-Japanese cartoon was far better.
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0429462/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_4
    Time-Jam - Valérian & Laureline
    Original title: Valérian & Laureline
    TV Series: 2007–2008 (40 episodes)



    PLOT
    Time Jam

    Space Time Agent trainee Valerian breaks the first rule of time travel and rescues Laureline, a girl about to be executed in 10th century France. The resulting shock wave alters the universe. When he and Laureline return to the future, Earth has disappeared and it is up to them both to repair the damage they caused. Hopefully without writing themselves out of existence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_J..._%26_Laureline

    indeed nothing is perfect in the world of entertainment/art
    take star wars for example = technological stagnation ?

    another stupidity is to think that humans are the most advanced race in existence, which is pretty much depicted in almost all sci-fi movies.. HAHA

    I could spend lots of time finding flaws on someone's work, but there is already tons of people doing it on YT, also what is the point to prove that some piece of art is wrong.. it is not supposed to be taking seriously anyway, it is just a movie, an piece of art.. that's the beauty in been human, we make lots of mistakes

    Some are good and other are bad, I agree with that
    Last edited by palehorse; 8th April 2023 at 09:17.
    --
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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avatar: The Way of Water

    The art is the flaws. imo
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    palehorse (9th April 2023)

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