The Third Secret of Fatima

[Delight]

Posted by Journeyman (here)

Posted by wondering (here)
I understand that these messages, Garabandal and Medugorje, for example, were experienced quite a few years ago. Given the dynamic nature of the energy of the Universe (an understatement) how could we believe that what was predicted decades ago would still be the path that would unfold for the world. Where does free will enter into it and the constant choices made by the millions and millions of individuals that would conceivably alter the nature of the world and what would be needed to alter a predicted path?

To take it one step further. If the universe is mental, then what could a secret society achieve by seeding prophecies over a very long period of time? Could the fostering of an apocalyptic mythos help to create the very events which are being 'foretold'?

EXACTLY what I think.

[Kryztian]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
If I may say this without causing anyone anywhere any offense, it seems to me that one has to kind of step away from formally dogmatic Catholic doctrine and view this from a much more elevated general viewpoint.

No offense taken whatsoever (and I am a Roman Catholic, but that does not limit my world view), however, I did a presentation on Marian apparition since Fatima, and I took the post modern approach, you have to view everything from several different perspectives to understand what is going on, and none of them are necessarily the last word. If you are a scientist and you are trying to understand how light behaves, you need to look at it as both a particle and a wave, two very contradictory perspectives. When it comes to Marian apparitions and prophecies, you need to look it is from:

1. the dogmatically skeptical/atheist perspective that looks at this as a phenomenon of mind and belief, and sometimes involves self delusion and deception. Even if you don't believe there is any reality to this happenings, they occur within the context of a very powerful institution that has a place on the world geopolitical stage: the Roman Catholic church. And there are about a billion Roman Catholics on our orb who are influenced by these narratives.
   
   
2. the non-catholic/paranormal perspective. The idea that some entity is communicating with a group, mostly Roman Catholics, but others are sometimes others are involved, and that the entity is trying to change human events. A few months after the Fatima apparitions culminated in Portugal in October 1917, there was a complete change of government and after many decades of suppression, the Catholic church was given back it's power as an free institution there. Other Marian apparitions are also connected to political events (e.g. Medugorje with the collapse of socialist Yugoslavia, Zeitoun, Egypt with the 6-Day War, etc.
   
   
3. from the hard core fundamentalist Catholic perspective. Whatever the entity is, it is communicating to someone who has been exposed to certain religous dogmas and ideas and it speaking to them at there level. You have to understand what is being communicated at their level.

When you look at most of these narratives, the solution given is: praying the rosary, fasting and practicing other Catholic devotions as well as adhering to conservative Catholic moral practices: ending abortion, disdaining those who practice non-reproductive sex, etc. Some how I don't think that is the directions most Avalonians are turning to. But if it is, well then,

Ave Maria! Salve Regina! Laus tibi Domine Jesu Christe!

[Eagle Eye]

If it ever was a real Mary apparition, would have said that she and Jesus are servants of God and would bring good news for the believers of God, not words of destruction.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Kryztian (here)
the non-catholic/paranormal perspective.

Linda Howe's Earthfiles livestream of 19 April (a couple of weeks ago) was all about this.

No mention of Fatima, Catholicism, or the Virgin Mary. But plenty about a big event to [probably] come that seems to involve a nuclear exchange and/or "Fire in the Sky".

It doesn't really belong on this thread! But Linda shares how she agonized about whether even to do a program on this topic. And in her own very poetic and impassioned pleas for an urgently needed transformation of humanity, she echoes much of what the Virgin Mary has been reported to request of so many witnesses — but in very different language.

I had to grit my teeth through some of it, as (maybe predictably) the US is yet again presented as the great hope for freedom and liberty for the planet, while Russia and China are depicted as the bad guy totalitarians.

Linda, and also the two experiencers whom you showcased, you have the global geopolitics all the wrong way round. But that might not actually be important: it's the bigger picture that counts... whatever it is.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=c8mht2EQA0E

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
If it ever was a real Mary apparition, would have said that she and Jesus are servants of God and would bring good news for the believers of God, not words of destruction.

Yes, I take the point. I believe it's possible to make a convincing argument that the many Marian apparitions were never the "real Virgin Mary" at all, but some other transdimensional entity — who may well be caring and benevolent, of course — appearing to the witnesses in the optimum form for them to be accepted and heard in the context of their specific culture and beliefs.

[Eagle Eye]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Yes, I take the point. I believe it's possible to make a convincing argument that the many Marian apparitions were never the "real Virgin Mary" at all, but some other transdimensional entity — who may well be caring and benevolent, of course — appearing to the witnesses in the optimum form for them to be accepted and heard in the context of their specific culture and beliefs.

Many countries have stories of Mary apparition, including balkan countries and made people worship Mary as goddess, something that real Mary would have never approved. Every chosen of God, has begin the guidance with the words, I am only a servant of God and than continues with teaching. That what makes Mary apparition a contradiction to her real way of guidance. She would never want people to worship her or Jesus.

[Isserley]

Posted by Kryztian (here)
When you look at most of these narratives, the solution given is: praying the rosary, fasting and practicing other Catholic devotions as well as adhering to conservative Catholic moral practices: ending abortion, disdaining those who practice non-reproductive sex, etc. Some how I don't think that is the directions most Avalonians are turning to. But if it is, well then...

This is exactly my thinking. As a born Roman Catholic, I always considered those messages from the place of Marian apparitions too dogmatic, biased and exclusive only for Catholics, which made no sense to me. I was in Medjugorje out of curiosity and noticed that they have quite commercialized the whole story with the apparition of the virgin. I didn't like that.
I felt more positive energy in Visoko.
I cannot claim that the messages are untrue, only in my opinion they do not act as messages of some advanced spiritual being, but the work of people - Catholic conservatives.

[Kryztian]

Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
If it ever was a real Mary apparition, would have said that she and Jesus are servants of God and would bring good news for the believers of God, not words of destruction.

In Christian, Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity and therefore God, not the servant of God. For Roman Catholics, Mary is the "mother of God."

Not sure why you think they would present themselves to Christians and Catholics according to the theology of Islam?

[Eagle Eye]

Posted by Kryztian (here)

In Christian, Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity and therefore God, not the servant of God. For Roman Catholics, Mary is the "mother of God."

Not sure why you think they would present themselves to Christians and Catholics according to the theology of Islam?

A long discussion that will change the topic, because just by saying that God has a mother is a great contradiction itself. People need to focus on their message and teachings, not to put them in one specific religion. They brought a message for the world not for a group, so try to find out what was that message and how reliable is the source from where you got it.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Isserley (here)
I cannot claim that the messages are untrue, only in my opinion they do not act as messages of some advanced spiritual being, but the work of people - Catholic conservatives.

But maybe the combination at work here is that they are the messages (or attempted messages!) of some advanced spiritual being, but once filtered through the lens of the beliefs of a devout Catholic (who is maybe an unsophstictated young person), then all the dogma and conservatism come into play. So maybe the original intended message — whatever it was — becomes very much lost or changed in translation.

Here's something very serious to think about. The witnesses all report that they hear spoken words. But maybe those words aren't spoken at all in any audible sense.

They may be thoughtforms projected directly into the mind of the witness, which then deciphers the original 'signal' in ways consistent with their own beliefs, upbringing and culture. It has to be possible that if a Marian witness (these days!) were to try to record the 'voice' with their smartphone, the recording would be blank.

[Applesprig]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7SBJxj489DA

Something to consider re the inconsistency between the last reveal of the 3rd secret and that which was seen by only a few. I think that the Vatican has used an imposter, there are too many contradictions. They are hiding something. See website " Sister Lucia Truth".

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Applesprig (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7SBJxj489DA

Many thanks, and I never knew about that whole controversy (so I'm not in any way equipped to comment ). Here's the website referenced in the video:

• https://SisterLucyTruth.org
  ...which is updated with a new website from the same research team:
• https://SisterLucyTruth.com

On that site is a 142 page PDF:

https://b7a5p3z2.rocketcdn.me/wp-con...atima_2019.pdf

[Bill Ryan]

If anyone wants to dive into this labyrinthine rabbit hole, they may never come out.

• http://unitypublishing.com

(This is only a partial list of the sections)

• How to Test Apparitions
  All you need to know -30 pages

• Apparition Investigations
  69 Investigation Articles

• Questions And Answers
  42 Most asked questions

• True Apparitions
  List From 1st to 20th Century

• False Apparitions
  List From 1st to 20th Century

• Medjugorje
  48 Articles on False Apparitions

• Garabandal
  Maybe the most dangerous apparition

[Kryztian]

Posted by Eagle Eye (here)
A long discussion that will change the topic,

Indeed a long off topic discussion that will derail the thread, which you once again have initiated here when you use the forum to showcase your superior theological values and chastise us lesser people.

The reason I mentioned "mother of God" is because it is part of the vocabulary of the persons receiving the message or seeing the apparition, and of the entity that is communicating to them. I have no interest in explaining this issue any further and I don't think many of the readers here who aren't Catholic or Christian care either.

If you want to start another thread where you can prostelytize on this issue, I would suggest reading this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos

[Isserley]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
So maybe the original intended message — whatever it was — becomes very much lost or changed in translation.

Exactly, and now the question arises - why would an advanced spiritual being choose such a medium that is not able to convey such a message in the right way? .. and what would be the right way?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Isserley (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
So maybe the original intended message — whatever it was — becomes very much lost or changed in translation.

Exactly, and now the question arises - why would an advanced spiritual being choose such a medium that is not able to convey such a message in the right way? .. and what would be the right way?

That's a really excellent question, and I have very little in the way of a good answer.

The best guess I have (but it's a pure guess, and maybe not a very good one!) is that if these many messages come from genuinely well-meaning non-human emissaries, their own race or culture is so distantly removed from humans that they simply don't really understand very well how humans actually work.

[Kryztian]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
If anyone wants to dive into this labyrinthine rabbit hole, they may never come out.

• True Apparitions
  List From 1st to 20th Century

• False Apparitions
  List From 1st to 20th Century

Looks like fire and brimstone fundamentalist Catholicism to me. Basically it seems that any message the confirms what we already know and want to believe is automatically labeled "true", and anything that contradicts it is what we want to believe is "false." Why would these entities come here to tell us what we already believe?

Among the "false" apparitions is Nostradamus who was secretly Jewish (therby automatically invalidating his claims). They also claim he plagarized all his prophecies from books he was entrusted with. Many of the "false" apparitions here contained messages of corruption within the church. They are labeled as false by the church, however, the church never investigated them and overlooked miraculous healings. For example "Januszkiewicz of Marlboro, NJ" may have predicted in the early 1990s the story of priestly pedophilia that was about to unfold over the next few decades. The message may have been "You are about to find out horrible things about your priests - but don't loose faith." There was even a miracle associated with these apparitions. The Diocese was given the evidence of the miracle (here, a mysteriously blood stained Eucharistic host) and had pretty much hidden it away and remained silent on the matter.

Medugorje is also considered false here, because there are several children who received messages in the 1980s and have kept them secret (which they were ordered to do) and I believe the church feels threatened by these messages.

There is this idea that Marian apparitions support the Roman Catholic church, when in fact, many of them challenge it's authority.

[Delight]

Adding this here.

The Fatima Prophecies with James Tunney

New Thinking Allowed with Jeffrey Mishlove
Apr 8, 2022
James Tunney, LLM, is an Irish barrister who has lectured on legal matters throughout the world. He is a poet, a scholar, and author of The Mystery of the Trapped Light: Mystical Thoughts in the Dark Age of Scientism plus The Mystical Accord: Sutras to Suit Our Times, Lines for Spiritual Evolution; also Empire of Scientism: The Dispiriting Conspiracy and Inevitable Tyranny of Scientocracy, TechBondAge: Slavery of the Human Spirit, and Human Entrance to Transhumanism: Machine Merger and the End of Humanity. His website is http://www.jamestunney.com.

Here he describes a 1917 series of events that took place in Fatima, Portugal, involving apparitions of "Our Lady" that appeared to three children – and eventually to a large crowd of tens of thousands of people. Various prophecies have been associated with the Fatima occurrences. Tunney examines the existing records concerning these prophecies and relates them to the rise of scientistic materialism, the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, and the loss of belief in the supernatural – even within the Church itself. As this interview was recorded, the Pope was engaged in a ceremony to consecrate Russia and Ukraine to the immaculate heart of the holy virgin.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TyO_exlJwP8

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Delight (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TyO_exlJwP8

Many many thanks. I was riveted by this from beginning to end, and I found it by far the most helpful and insightful commentary I've read, watched or heard so far.

[Satori]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Delight (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TyO_exlJwP8

Many many thanks. I was riveted by this from beginning to end, and I found it by far the most helpful and insightful commentary I've read, watched or heard so far.

I’ve always enjoyed and appreciated Jeffrey Mishlove and his guests. Watched him way back when his TV show was Thinking Allowed, now he has New Thinking Allowed.

I just heard this guest mention having met with Mishlove and his wife in Albuquerque. I did not know Mishlove lives here.