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Thread: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

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    Default Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    This thread is an expression of The Resistance in the western sphere.

    Many of these posts are comprehensive and take some concentration.

    This later post on The Barrator might be a more effective five-minute bird's eye using things that should be familiar to most.

    I have introduced this view in various threads now scattered. It mostly, but not fully, fits what is going on today. I say "not fully" because I am thinking of something older and a bit more magical than most. It will deal with numerous secret societies and things of this nature.

    The trouble is that time is spent formulating responses to various threads--and in some cases, it appears that the OP does not even read the responses. None of them wind up going far, so, it does not amount to a dialogue, and it just goes away and is lost. So the end of this post might be link collection for work that otherwise fades away. The body of this post will be some very large sources and specific arguments designed to counter and overcome particular bodies of disinformation and thought control.

    For a similar operation in the east, here is a separate thread:


    These days we have been forced into a sharp delineation of "the West" as the mainly Anglophile minority of an admittedly "mono-polar order" of truly Orwellian proportions. But it seems artificial, as if it doesn't belong. And so this will put together some historical information about a type of olive branch that has come forward a few times, to repeated failures, given the state of the news today.

    Any Russian can list multiple examples going back to the Great Schism of 1054 showing menacing behavior on the part of "the West".

    We can find an even larger historical trend that tells us what has tried to graciously "come in" or manifest itself, compared to what stands now.

    In respect to this, the American Revolution was very significant. After which there were two central banks from 1791-1837, which were forbidden from using Treasury Bonds. In 1863, President Lincoln authorized a national banking system which *does* use them, and this situation has remained in place ever since.


    Lincoln's Empire refers mostly to this.

    A name like "Avalon" refers to a Druidic culture, which as far as we know was native to parts of Europe. In history, I can, for example, rewind in writing the path of my DNA into something that was called--by cartographers at least--"Lexovi", and then there simply is no more written information going back before around the year 500. The simplest consideration is that they were followers of a Druidic Cult such as Cernunnos, and then all these areas were gradually "Romanized", using force if necessary. The Romans got rid of the Druids and installed Bishops. However, they tended to leave most of the local authorities in place.

    We are mostly going to take a Greek look at things, but concerning Rome:

    Virgil's Ecologue discusses a Golden Age, which has been reinterpreted as prophesying Jesus. However, there "was" a Golden Age, at the time when Saturn, a refugee from the Trojan War, settled the Latium area and founded Latin Culture. This carried forth peaceful trading relations with the Etruscans, until the rise of the City of Rome ended all that.

    Byzantium, however, was founded as early as ca. 600 B. C. E., was essentially always the trading and cultural capital, until finally being overwhelmed around 1450 when its sphere of influence moved to Moscow.

    All of the early Church Councils were dominated by hundreds of Greek speakers, with only a small handful of Latin priests, coming from what was comparatively nearly a backwater. Greek was the lingua franca of education. Yet even from an early stage, there is an idea that the Bishop of Rome is authoritative.

    Going through this, considering the view of Pythagoras and Plato, the white knuckle grip on future imported scriptures sounds quite insane. But that is what happened. In ancient Greece, people were regularly executed for Hubris, but there is only one known example for Blasphemy. Usually--such as in India--religious doctrines were a matter of debate, not force.

    The Greek language and mythology are largely a cognate of Sanskrit. Perhaps on the side of life, there were Pythagoras and Plato, against whom, Aristotle has been used to embody forces that can be described as empiricism, behavioralism, reductionism, materialism, and so on. The nutshell analogy would be School of Aristotle...Capitalism.

    As an attempt at its sustenance, there was the School of Alexandria and Neo-Platonists I:

    An eclectic pantheistic school of philosophy founded in Alexandria by Ammonius Saccas, of which his disciple Plotinus was the head (A.D. 189-270).

    Falling a martyr to the fiendish conspiracy of Theophilos, Bishop of Alexandria, and his nephew Cyril, she [Hypatia] was foully murdered by their order. With her death fell the Neo Platonic School.

    Hypatia being killed in the 400s is the beginning of a Dark Age; Greek education is pressed out of western countries like Spain around the 600s and continues to be rolled back, creating the situation for Neo-Platonists II:

    In the year 527, when the Emperor Justinian closed the Neoplatonic School in Athens and banished the last seven great Neoplatonists, the teachings of Plato and the Neoplatonists disappeared from Christian Europe for almost a thousand years. In the fifteenth century a revival of Neoplatonism arose through the efforts of Nicolas de Cusa, a Catholic Cardinal of German birth. Directly opposing the personal God of the Church, Cusa defined Deity as “the absolute Maximum and also the absolute minimum, who comprehends all that is or can be.” This laid him open to the charge of pantheism, which he did not deny. He also declared that Deity can be apprehended only through intuition, an exalted state of consciousness in which all limitations disappear. Cusa’s efforts to revive Neoplatonism were continued in Germany by Reuchlin, Trithemius, and Cornelius Agrippa, and in France by Bovillus. The chief stronghold of the Neoplatonic revival, however, was the city of Florence, where Theosophical principles reappeared under the protection of the powerful house of Medici.

    We are not trying to say that every Medici always did the holiest things, but yes, the significance of Florence around the 1400s is corroborated by non-Theosophical sources. The demise of the Medici dynasty resulted in them bequeathing their wealth to the State of Tuscany.

    What they are trying to return to Europe is Byzantine Humanism:

    Byzantine science was in every period closely connected with ancient-pagan philosophy and metaphysics.

    Sometimes, Humanism tends to have a secular meaning, however:

    Giovanni Pico della Mirandola undermined the dominance of Aristotelian philosophy by revitalizing Sextus Empiricus' skepticism.

    So it is not unusual to understand the Byzantine Background of the Medici Renaissance.

    What is not apparent from those articles is the existence of the initiatic center formed by the Knights of Malta in allegiance with at least some of the Holy Roman Emperors. This operates in conjunction with the Florentine Renaissance, dramatically punctuated by HRE Rudolf II:

    Under his reign, there was a policy of toleration towards Judaism. Rudolf was tolerant of Protestantism and other religions including Judaism. He largely withdrew from Catholic observances, even in death refusing the last sacramental rites. He had little attachment to Protestants either, except as counter-weight to papal policies. He put his primary support behind conciliarists, irenicists and humanists. When the papacy instigated the Counter-Reformation, using agents sent to his court, Rudolf backed those whom he thought were the most neutral in the debate, not taking a side or trying to effect restraint...

    In 1583, he moved the court to Prague.

    Of his library possibly including the Voynich manuscript:

    The collection became an invaluable research tool during the flowering of 17th-century European philosophy, the "Age of Reason [Enlightenment]".

    The court and administration were gradually moved from Prague to Vienna after 1612. The new emperor was less interested in art than Rudolf II and most court artists soon turned their backs on his court.

    In that approximate area, or Swabia, in the corner of France and Switzerland, we find the religiously tolerant anti-extremist Order of St. Joachim on the Enlightenment:

    Duke Karl Christian Erdmann von Württemberg-Oels, was one of the original 14 founders of the Order [1755]. The Dukes of Württemberg were known as patrons of the arts, but also were key figures in the beginnings of Rosicrucianism. In the late 1500s and early 1600s, the court of a previous Duke of Württemberg was well known as a centre of alchemical and occult activities, with Simon Studion and Johann Valentin Andreae as its most notable Rosicrucian figures.

    The Gold Rosicrucians was headed by Johann Karl Baron von Ecker und Eckhoffen, who in 1787 was Chancellor of The Order of Saint Joachim. Baron von Ecker und Eckhoffen is named as a member of several other mystic societies, including the Christian Masonry of Bohemia in 1756, and the Asiatic Brethren.

    Von Ecker had started a "Fratres Lucis" in Vienna, 1781, which did not last long in that form, re-casting itself into the "Asiatic Brethren". Further:

    Historical records do show that a few Illuminati were later members of The Order of Saint Joachim, as the Illuminati did initially attract many prominent German individuals. These people were both free-thinking Catholics as well as German Protestant nobles at continual odds with the expansionist political ambitions of the Catholic powers in Bavaria and the Austrian Empire.

    Proving the Knights of Malta are not Masons, one of the ex-Illuminati:

    In 1789 Kollowrat founded the first Masonic Lodge in Malta itself – St. John’s Lodge of Secrecy and Harmony – until it was ordered closed by the Inquisition in 1792.

    Well, the Knights had actually confiscated the property of the Jesuits, and used the proceeds to invest in the University of Malta. Once this order is defeated by Napoleon and removed from Malta, we will no longer claim it to be the same entity--name only.

    In fact this principle applies to the majority of movements and organizations, subordination.

    with re-constructed clock tower

    I do not have a religion, but I do have a Masonic heritage from Lodge Zero Mother Kilwinning. I have nothing to do with it, other than to say it is not Freemasonry, which is a later adaptation. Masonry has Four Degrees. You cannot be a Thirty-third Degree Mason. Advanced degrees come from Rites, which are the Freemasonic optional additions.

    Instead, from a somewhat early age, I became a convert to Buddhism, which I don't exactly see as "a religion". A few years later, I found its original English dispensation to be in United Lodge Theosophy. It turns out this name is very important, because it is not the "Theosophical Society" of CWL and Annie Besant, or any later "version"--which should have been obvious, as it calls itself a once-per-century broadcast.

    None of that was what got my attention.

    I discovered The Mahatma Letters, which indeed had material that perked my Buddhist leanings, although some of it was a bit mystifying. It was easy to see that there were writings from people who were, in fact, Indian Buddhists, dealing with English and Americans for the first time. There is also a
    Wiki with a letter-per-page including the actual copies from The British Museum.

    There are numerous allegations and controversies about the Theosophical Founders, most of which do not hold up. One possibly legitimate criticism is that it was "a Buddhist propaganda". If so, then when I consult the Letters, they record a conversation with the person considered to be the superior of the Theosophical Mahatmas. This is from around 1881, a few quotes of Letter from the Mahachohan:

    Quote Buddhism stripped of its superstitions is eternal truth, and he who strives for the latter is striving for theo-sophia - Divine Wisdom, which is a synonym of truth.

    To achieve the proposed objects a greater, wiser, and especially a more benevolent intermingling of the high and the low, of the alpha and the omega of society, was determined upon. The white race must be the first to stretch out the hand of fellowship to the dark nations, to call the poor despised "******" - brother. This prospect may not smile to all; - He is no Theosophist who objects to this principle.

    In view of the ever increasing triumph and at the same time misuse of free-thought and liberty (the Universal reign of Satan, Eliphas Levi would have called it), how is the combative natural instinct of man to be restrained from inflicting hitherto unheard of cruelties and enormities, tyranny, injustice, etc., if not through the soothing influence of a brotherhood and of the practical application of Buddha's esoteric doctrines?

    In a word, how, once that the main objects of the T.S. are misinterpreted by those who are most willing to serve us personally, are we to deal with the rest of mankind, with that curse known as the "struggle for life," which is the real and most prolific parent of most woes and sorrows and of all the crimes? Why has that struggle become the almost universal scheme of the universe? We answer, because no religion with the exception of Buddhism has hitherto taught a practical contempt for this earthly life, while each of them, always with that one solitary exception, has through its hells and damnations inculcated the greatest dread of death. Therefore do we find that struggle for life raging most fiercely in Christian countries, most prevalent in Europe and America. It weakens in the Pagan lands and is nearly unknown among Buddhist populations.

    The main point is you have to discard supremacy, whether racial, religious, etc., and we see this seems to be the defining characteristic of the West today. From his view, the hubris or arrogance referred to has been considered somewhat of a crime since the 1600s. They were perfectly aware of colonialism. And if you spend a lot of time with those Letters, you get the impression that almost everything about English would-be Theosophists is contaminated by, at the least, skepticism, all the way up to that ridicule which derives from supremacy. It is like in 1880 they were deaf. That makes it easy to spot the tiny handful of exceptions.

    A massive track of the defeat of Humanism or Natural Science and the formation of modern systems is covered by Webster Tarpley in Against Oligarchy. This also helps explain how university education was warped. It is a close look at the influence of Venice developing into the current British system. He goes into Calculus being used to remove the mathematics of Leibiniz. Correspondingly, somewhere on our General Science forum there is Maxwell's Quarternions, based on Arrays, which again were simplified by Calculus into the Four Fundamental Forces of Physics.

    In modern academic intolerance, David Pratt has some Theosophical articles including suppressed views, such as No Tectonic Drift and No Big Bang.

    One of the best tools for cleansing what one may have been given as misleading political secret society claims is available in Anti-Masonry Refuted by G. L. of British Columbia and Yukon. That list makes it apparent how a "reverse propaganda" was begun almost immediately after the French Revolution, which becomes traceable as the Anti-Masonic Party --> Pro-Bank Whigs --> Republican Party. This is for example quite close to the John Birch Society and the modern Knights of Malta. Many kinds of religious Fundamentalism.

    Capitalism has two branches in the United States--the one above, and the other can be summarized by ISGP Pilgrims' Society. Significantly, this website disposes of the "Eye in the Pyramid" or "Them" or some kind of unknown that you are sure must be doing everything. It has a humongous pile of modern information. Here we are looking more at historical ones as the flow of ideas that have shaped things. I am not trying to say much from the twentieth century forwards which are mostly on that site. The two examples are polarized enough that someone--I forget who--was quoted as saying:

    "I joined the Council on Foreign Relations when I renounced the John Birch Society".

    Tarpley is pretty good for the Renaissance period, and then ISGP is pretty good for the modern era. I would not say they are the final word on anything, but I would say they are fairly accurate without anything misleading, in your face, at least.

    Most writers on secret societies or Theosophy are in the fog, or have an agenda.

    Theosophy is not yoga or spiritual practice of any kind. It is an intellectual weapon to help you combat two forces, dogmatic religion and materialistic science. Even in 1880, the Catholic dictation thing was still a huge deal. We may not have that problem, now, but we would still question why anyone should take any scripture so seriously that you go out and start fights about it.

    When I have gone through the trove, I found HPB to be a true character and perhaps even a hero. She had joined Garibaldi's forces at Metana in 1867 and got nearly killed. On her mother's side, she was Rurikid and Dolgoruki. She must be a thousand times more powerful than British drawing room ladies. But a few of them became her friends.

    Katinka Hesselink hosts HPB Collected Writings, composed of articles mostly not from her major books. Here, we find, for example, a very accurate explanation of the assassination of Tsar Nicholas II, the world's first suicide bombing. It closely concurs with what we can study from other sources today. It just happened to be an early, if not the first known example clearly telling us how Antifa or Nihilism works, and I guess no one figured that might be important.

    Theosophy is not really political in any way. But she said that her personal precursor was Franz Mesmer:

    He was an initiated member of the Brotherhoods of the Fratres Lucis and of Lukshoor (or Luxor), or the Egyptian Branch of the latter.

    More information there, or on another Mesmer page, easily shows his association with Cagliostro and St. Germain. Her personal testimony associates him with von Ecker.

    Concerning St. Germain, there is a biography of him by Isabel Cooper-Oakley 1912, which is mostly good, except she was tricked by the 1820 Countess Adhemar letters, which were a forgery. So we will not suggest anything other than he perished as described at Schleswig-Holstein.

    There, of course, we are going to find a mountain of political involvement.

    Neither HPB nor the Theosophists are that great at Buddhism. The Society jumps to the conclusion that this is all based in 100-year missions owing to Tson kha pa of Kokonor. That is an idea which has little other representation. What we can say is that HPB's work gained her friendship with the Panchen Lama. Previously, around the time of Mesmer, 1773, there was also an emissary from the Panchen Lama to the Maharajah of Benares in India. The eventual motto of the first Theosophical Society is the motto of the Maharajah of Benares.

    HPB did not personally name any "messengers" prior to Mesmer, and I am certain that if we read Tson kha pa, it would be quite upsetting to her. My impression is that she latched onto one of the archives of Chinese Buddhism. This is not particularly reliable, and some of it is mixed with Manicheanism. She was not a Mason, but, she knew the western system so well, she was handed an honorary certificate by John Yarker. In Buddhism she had no rank other than was allowed to participate.

    Annie Besant made some kind of editorial changes to Voice of the Silence. By working with the Eighth Panchen Lama, Alice Cleather scraped the changes and re-printed it. The Eighth also said his predecessor knew HPB well.

    Importantly, Alice also wrote a rather short but sympathetic biography, HPB As I Knew Her 1923, which argues against all of the elaborations and disputes against "the original".

    From a young age, HPB wanted to be Lady Liberty. She was an aristocrat who really did not like the upper class and preferred the company of poor people. She can be credited with turning down large bribes from the Jesuits and from Sassoon of the East India Company.

    HPB celebrated Thomas Paine, who was great friends with Nicholas Bonneville.

    Paine is generally held to be an eleventh-hour inspiration for the American Revolution, as Bonneville certainly was in France.

    What happened in America was not really anti-monarchial. The source of the problems was not really the King, but the British Parliament. Note that the King could only grant Denizenship. To become a Subject required an Act of Parliament. So the British had been imposing restrictive immigration practices, and then they raised the taxes. Although the colonies revolted in favor of a new set of laws, this was not inherently an anti-monarchist platform, since there resulted in a substantial movement to appoint Washington as King.

    In Europe, the same ideals were not anti-monarchist at all. An example of an anti-monarchist platform is Chinese Communism. In Europe, it would appear that most republican revolutions did not convey Humanism, or the Enlightenment, but wound up working for the Money Power.

    The use of "Enlightenment" also refers to the presence in Europe of Confucian teachings. Voltaire thought Confucius was Deism.

    The Jesuits understood and imported Confucianism as early as the 1600s, saying Buddhists were superstitious idol worshippers. In the 1700s, another Jesuit tried to take it seriously, but neither he, nor Carl Jung, ever understood Emptiness or Sunyata. These are the cream of the intellectual people. I am not surprised. Buddhism is not an affair of the intellect.

    Seeing as how it has practically no English members, but it is largely identical with the American ideals, there is basically the same qualification for the Enlightened Monarch:

    Enlightened rulers may have played a part in the abolition of serfdom in Europe.

    Enlightened absolutists held that royal power emanated not from divine right but from a social contract whereby a despot was entrusted with the power to govern through a social contract in lieu of any other governments. The monarchs of enlightened absolutism strengthened their authority by improving the lives of their subjects. The monarch’s taking responsibility for his subjects precluded their political participation.

    In other words, the phrase "consent of the governed" as used in the Declaration of Independence is the same idea that had been given by John Stuart Mill towards Kings, and voluntarily applied by Russia, before the American Revolution. Its origin lies:

    ...in 1433 by Nicholas of Cusa in De Concordantia Catholica. In 1579 an influential Huguenot tract Vindiciae contra tyrannos was published which Sabine paraphrases: "The people lay down the conditions which the king is bound to fulfill. Hence they are bound to obedience only conditionally, namely, upon receiving the protection of just and lawful government…the power of the ruler is delegated by the people and continues only with their consent."

    Such consent is the ideal of Popular Sovereignty:

    Popular sovereignty is the principle that the authority of a state and its government are created and sustained by the consent of its people, who are the source of all political power. Popular sovereignty, being a principle, does not imply any particular political implementation.

    Republics and popular monarchies are theoretically based on popular sovereignty. However, a legalistic notion of popular sovereignty does not necessarily imply an effective, functioning democracy.

    The American Revolution marked a departure in the concept of popular sovereignty as it had been discussed and employed in the European historical context. American revolutionaries aimed to substitute the sovereignty in the person of King George III, with a collective sovereign—composed of the people. Thenceforth, American revolutionaries generally agreed with and were committed to the principle that governments were legitimate only if they rested on popular sovereignty – that is, the sovereignty of the people. This was often linked with the notion of the consent of the governed—the idea of the people as a sovereign.

    In the American Revolution, you took an Oath to the State--at that time you actively consented to be governed. By this, you became a Citizen, generally as contrasted to an Alien, but there were exemptions for non copos mentis, prisoner of war, and so on, a disenfranchised status. If you did not enter this social contract, consequences ranged from eviction to possibly even the death penalty. There were a few cases of religious exemption, meaning if your religion refused to let you take up arms and fight, then you were a non-citizen who was taxed at a higher rate. Originally, in the Constitution, State citizenship was presumed equal to United States citizenship, which was otherwise undefined or had no significant meaning. This was subject to later developments.

    Originally, the State was the Militia--gun control mostly meant you were supposed to own a gun, and if you were called for duty you would be given bullets and powder.

    That is how the Americans were different--yes they actually removed the monarch, although that was not a consensus motive of the rebellion. This is how they begin living out their Enlightenment ideals.

    Seeing as this was a very non-English phenomenon, some members of the brief list of enlightened monarchs:

    Maria Theresa (1740–1780)

    Empress Catherine II of Russia sponsored the Russian Enlightenment. She incorporated many ideas of Enlightenment philosophers, especially Montesquieu, in her Nakaz, which was intended to revise Russian law.

    Montesquieu is invariably the root of American government, due to Separation of Powers:

    It was not unusual for eighteenth century Americans to speak of Montesquieu as an “oracle” of political wisdom whose work is “always consulted.”

    To them we would next associate Marie Antoinette. Not the French King. Between these three ladies and their peers, one finds the friendship of Benjamin Franklin and St. Germain. This is a fledgling, or maybe even a homonculus that we are not sure can survive out of the vat, but it is something like the beginning of The Resistance.

    In 1776, there was a level of common mentality in those four countries, warning about Money Power. After this being crushed, the Italian and Greek Carbonari were also similar. Garibaldi wound up restoring Victor Immanuel. So he was a revolutionary that was not anti-monarchist. Mazzini however more famous for "Young Italy" became compromised by the British and so most of the "Youth Movements" and "republican revolutions" turn out to be manipulations in this vein.

    As well as by Tarpley, the British side is fairly well summarized in Ghost of Oliver Cromwell, which has a handful of its own links roughly tracing the continuity from the Bank of England to U. S. Neocons. It happens to suggest that Jews are Edomites without explaining it. At one point, Edom overran and miscigenated Judea, which contaminated their temples and bloodlines.

    One adjustment that happens, as we can find Jesuits having a center in London, is that also around the late 1800s particularly the American Jesuits developed a new strategy which is nothing like dogmatic Catholicism. They realized they could work with any weak, watered-down from of Jesus. This allows them to, so to speak, "infiltrate the New Age". They also become intimately bonded to Rockefeller Medicine.

    Because things like the Rosetta Stone were being discovered around Egypt, it leapt from the back of everyone's mind into something that maybe some people could explain. Egyptian mythology. There has always been a Coptic, that is, Greek speaking segment of that country. And, ancient Greece is believed to have had its Orphic Mysteries, and then augmentation by training in Egypt. I am going to start from the view that the Orphic person who is directly trained has more prominence than latter-day assertions based in archaeology.

    Compared to untold numbers of ceremonies and degrees and so forth, in Egyptian Rites, or Rosicrucian Soceities, etc., there is something quite simple from Pythagoras.

    When I say I don't have a religion, this is partly because what I think I am doing is a form of yoga, related to Ayurveda. So this requires a belief in Life Force. If I then turn to classical Greece, and say was there a close parallel, that turns out to be the case. It is based on the Pentagram:

    The ancient Pythagorean pentagram was drawn with two points up and represented the doctrine of Pentemychos. Pentemychos means "five recesses" or "five chambers", also known as the pentagonas — the five-angle, and was the title of a work written by Pythagoras's teacher and friend Pherecydes of Syros.

    On Pherecydes:

    He was considered the first writer to communicate philosophical ideas in prose as opposed to verse. However, other than a few short fragments preserved in quotations from other ancient philosophers and a long fragment discovered on an Egyptian papyrus, his work is lost. However, it survived into the Hellenistic period and a significant amount of its content can be conjectured indirectly through ancient testimonies. His cosmogony was derived from three divine principles: Zas (Life), Cthonie (Earth), and Chronos (Time). In the narrative, Chronos creates the Classical elements and other gods in cavities within the earth. Later, Zas defeats the dragon Ophion in a battle for supremacy and throws him in Oceanus. Zas marries Chthoniê, who then becomes the recognizable Earth (Gê) with forests and mountains. Chronos retires from the world as creator, and Zas succeeds him as ruler and assigns all beings their place.

    Later hellenistic doxographers also considered him as one of the first thinkers to introduce a doctrine of the transmigration of souls to the Ancient Greek religion, which influenced the metempsychosis of Pythagoreanism, and the theogonies of Orphism. Various legends and miracles were ascribed to him, many of which tie him to the development of Pythagoreanism or Orphism.

    Yes, there, I begin to detect a resemblance to the Indian Puranas and so on.

    From an example for kids:

    The ancient, and one could argue real, Pythagorean pentagram was two points up and represented the doctrine of Pentemychos.

    The pentemychos is in Tartaros.

    In very early Greek thought, Tartaros was the first existing Darkness from which the cosmos is born. While it was locked away after the emergence and ordering of the cosmos, it still continued to have an influence. In fact, it was known as "the subduer of both gods and men" (Homer), and it was from this that the world got its "psyche" (soul) and its "daimon". The Boundless Darkness held influence through Mychos or Krater.

    The Underworld as the source of wisdom was the rule...Note that she speaks of the Heart. The inmost chamber is the Mychos...this Underworld of the Greeks and Pythagoreans is also the "inmost chamber" and the Core of Inner Being.

    Another pentagram from Agrippa’s book. This one has the Pythagorean letters “γιεια” or Hygieia, Health, inscribed around the circle, which was used by adherents as a form of greeting:

    In the image above of the two points up pentagram from Agrippa's book, the notion of Health that is within and inside a living being, is "bounded between the rings". According to myth, Tartaros was locked away by iron (fashioned by Zeus) and bronze (fashioned by Zeus' brother Poseidon. The iron of Zeus is the aither spoken of earlier ("space") and the bronze is demiurgos, or the waterforce which binds things into matter (Poseidon was often referred to as "he who shakens the earth" and the god Proteus, who carries the seals of Poseidon has ever since Antiquity been seen as a representation of matter.) To sum it up; even if seen as the medieval elements, Living Things are the things traveling the Wheel of Life, and not directly connected to or part of the Pythagorean pentagram itself, which is at their core in the center, a Core of Inner Being (the "soul" of "the stuff"). When one had Health, they were considered Zoös and in their hearts there was Eros (the word did not mean "erotic" in the sense we mean it today at all). To not have Health was to be Thanatos - a word that does not exactly mean dead as in "dead and buried," but means dead inside but alive, like a shell.

    Same as Pluto:

    Julius Caesar, in his Commentaries on the Gallic Wars (VI:18), states that the Gauls all claimed descent from Dīs Pater. This is an example of interpretatio romana: what Caesar meant was that the Gauls all claimed descent from a Gaulish god that he equated with the Roman Dīs Pater.

    Metaphysically, one might say that is practically inevitable, in the sense of Underworld as above.

    The second thing if you now look at the interior pentagon, it now resembles a house, mas, maison, the idea of a Mason. The Craft Masons who made Kilwinning Abbey were not Scottish. They had come from Tiron, France, and probably included a few Italians. This was in the early 1100s. At this time, most crafts professions ran in Guilds, who all had things like costumes and mystery plays and parades that were done on the numerous religious or saint's days. What was unusual about Masonry by having secret handshakes and code words is because typically a worker had to go hundreds of miles to do a project that would last several years. Different languages were involved. So there were trade secrets involved to "prove" who you were to the local foreman.

    Particularly in English Freemasonry, one finds a form of Jesuit tampering that begins a creed of Templar origin and a doctrine of revenge. On the Continent, this found favor with the Lodge of Strict Observance. Within the Bavarian Illuminati, there were members who favored this system, and others who did not. And so what Cagliostro is doing is going round looking for dissenting Masons to bring into the Egyptian Rite. Over time, this is what drifts into the Carbonari, against the English system. Instead, the Grand Lodge of England gets its hands on a Frankfurt Lodge, which becomes the source of the Golden Dawn.

    Further along this dissenting or Egyptian line are J J C Bode, Nicholas Bonneville, and Karl of Schleswig-Holstein, friend of St. Germain--who was not a Mason. He was, however, present and involved at some of the meetings.

    On a real time historical basis, Bode and two other authors wrote texts on Jesuit involvement in English Masonry, this being the plague of radicalism in the French Revolution. Immediately after them are Jesuit and other writings which concoct the Illuminati scare and so forth, and much of later history is saturated with this view. Published shortly after Bode had passed away, this may sound familiar at the launch of Judeo-Masonic theory:

    The first to detail a masonic conspiracy was the French Jesuit Abbe Barruel in 1797. He traced the French Revolution back to a plot hatched by the Knights Templar, who, surviving their attempted extermination in 1314, reconstituted themselves as a secret society of Freemasons to wreak revenge on all monarchs and the papacy, seeking to establish a world republic by means of preaching liberty to the masses.

    That article is really on Belgrade 1941 where it is fairly clear that it is anti-monarchist of two kinds, capitalism and communism. That is what they say. Barruel is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, since the English soon charter a Jewish Lodge in Germany. Yet as soon as we start to complain "only Jews charge usury", then we should remember that Christians forced this situation.

    Correspondingly with the Egyptian Rites is a revolutionary who was not anti-monarchist,
    Marquis de La Fayette:

    After the storming of the Bastille, he was appointed commander-in-chief of France's National Guard and tried to steer a middle course through the years of revolution. In August 1792, radical factions ordered his arrest, and he fled into the Austrian Netherlands. He was captured by Austrian troops and spent more than five years in prison.

    By "middle" here, we have in mind something like not clinging on to an old regime, and not killing and destroying everything in order to change it. This may resemble "moderate Liberal" or, i. e. a person of republican nature who might compromise with a monarch.

    If it is not hereditary or life term, I am not sure there is a great difference between Constitutional Monarch and President.

    I am also not sure that an Absolute Monarch is a better idea, but, it turns out to be some of these who were most generally interested in Enlightenment. America and its cycle of Presidency are supposed to be the same. However it does not really look like they have been successful.

    I can say the old Greek system is at least fairly close to the Indian. The handshake is palpable. There was not a separated "the West" in that sense of the word. Although the Mughals and European colonials were highly disruptive to Indian culture, it has never "lost" its old systems.

    Debt Jubilee was a King's mode of suppressing insurrection even up to Athens in 594 B. C. E. The Pharisees shifted its power to priests. It is arguably referred to in the Book of Leviticus; the Liberty Bell using a neighboring Leviticus quote.

    Michael Hudson speaks on it, and says not knowing about it causes Christianity to be misunderstood.

    Or from Jubilee and Social Contract:

    The ancient precedent for these institutions was the Mesopotamian debt cancellations declared by the king, often at the beginning of his reign. These older debt releases were a form of the pardon power, a positive version of the sovereign decision analogous to divine grace.


    At the same time, the moral opprobrium was felt toward creditors. They were blamed for impoverishing society at large by their selfishness. The Greeks called this hubris, money-love and wealth addiction. And rulers saw an independent creditor class turning its wealth into large landholdings of creating a rival power to the palace. In addition to cancelling debts owed to the palace, rulers thus restored widespread independence from large wealthy families whose economic interest lay in resisting royal Clean Slates. Large fortunes thus seem to have disappeared in Larsa and Babylonia around the 18th and 17th centuries BC. They didn’t have any President Obama to defend them from the “mob with pitchforks.” Hammurabi said that he was serving Shamash, the sun-god of justice. And Nanshe was a prototype for Greek Nemesis, punishing hubris and abusive wealth, protecting the poor and needy (already in 3rd-millennium Sumer).

    This concept is very hard for Westerners to understand. Yet it was at the center of the Old and New Testaments, in the form of the Jubilee Year – taken out of the hands of kings and placed at the center of Judaic religion.

    Even in Egypt:

    The Rosetta Stone text confirms that the tradition of debt cancellation was upheld in Egypt by the pharaohs from the 8th century B.C., before Alexander the Great conquered the country in the 4th century B.C. It relates that the pharaoh Ptolemeus V cancelled all debt due to the Throne by the people of Egypt and beyond, in 196 BC.

    In the present day, debt repayment has become a taboo subject. Heads of State and of governments, central banks, the IMF and the mass media, all present it as though it were inevitable, unquestionable, and obligatory. Citizens must resign themselves to paying off the debt. The only discussion possible focuses on how to distribute the burden of sacrifice needed in order to free up enough budgetary resources to fulfil the commitments of the indebted nation. The governments who have borrowed were elected democratically, goes the reasoning, therefore their actions are legitimate. The debt must be paid off.

    We must pierce the smoke-screen of creditors and re-establish the historical truth. Generalised debt cancellations have been enacted repeatedly throughout history. These cancellations correspond to different contexts. In the cases mentioned above, proclamations of general debt cancellation were made at the initiative of rulers concerned with upholding social peace. In some cases, cancellations resulted from social struggles exacerbated by economic crisis and the rise of inequality. This was the case in Ancient Greece and Rome.

    That is on monuments, such as the Code of Hammurabi. It is arguable from the Bible. It sounds like an attempt at social contract although no elected leader does this. At least I don't think so.

    I have no political answer about the best kind of social contract.

    I think we have some very fake Greek roots by "proclaiming Democracy". I don't see much that looks like Enlightenment values mixed with human productivity. I do not have a religion, although I have visited services of several denominations. I did not get it. However that was different when I became a regular visitor of a Syrian Mission of Orthodoxy. One unmistakable difference is many icons of a living Jesus rather than Crucifixion. That simple image again sounds like a draconian difference in the two spheres.

    It may be mostly an intra-Christian concern, but, that is the religion of Jerusalem, and the denominations, aren't. This is a non-European religion. The West hasn't got a religion, it removed whatever may have been there. Subsequently, this language, English, barely existed before the 1500s. It is not geared to promote the ideas of Pythagoras or even Orthodox Christianity. It is more like a mix of religious Fundamentalism with Atheism. That is the kind of background it grew up in.

    Those vaults of ideas go along with objective history, and so we are going to fold in recent archaeology and genetics. Following a couple tracks of written history:

    Zoroaster --> Yazidism

    Abraham --> Mandaeanism

    This takes a few pages and is not really in order, so here is a summary of what is posted. The sub-posts in this thread bear out in great detail very many of the issues which are dim or absent elsewhere. This is like a thirty year project combining other thirty years projects, e. g., HPB, Tarpley, Aurobindo, Talageri, ISGP, and so on.

    8: Chaucer and citizenship laws

    9: Mariupol, Greece, Rose Croix, Cagliostro Jewel

    10: Against Oligarchy, HPB, the Sikh Empire, Buddhism and Hesychasm

    11: World Government

    12: HPB, Russian ancestry, Orthodoxy, goddess Fortuna

    13: Fixed Cross, Nychthemeron, original Theosophy and Buddhism, goddess Fortuna

    15: Zodiac and Sophia

    16: Zionist Ezekiel, goddess Hathor, Simonian Emanations

    18: Goddess Ma'at, western and eastern Zodiacs and magic

    20: Athanasius Kircher

    22: Sanskrit and Virgo in Nepal

    23: Gemini, Antimony, Hingula Mata, Saffron, Bogazkoy Seal

    24: Zodiac, Lukshur, proto-Greece and Egypt, Atlantis maps, Dwarka

    25: Indian History, Time cycles and Ages, King Harsha

    26: King Amsuvarman, Bhrkuti and the 600s in India

    27: Lapis Lazuli behind all civilizations

    28: First suicide bombing and related links

    30: Aristotle and Mabel Talvas

    31: Patrick Henry and Anti-Federalism

    32: Russian Sobornost

    33: Conspiracy Theory

    34: Rockefeller and Fascist Argentina; island of Hvar, Croatia

    34: Senzar and Buddhism

    36: Planes and Theos

    37: Lexovii and Apollo, Gospels and Genesis, Saturn, the Mandaeans

    38: Sibyl and Christos

    39: Paul

    40: Pistis, Charis, Eucharist, Decanates

    41: Eden in Sri Lanka

    42: Harran, Mandaean Zodiac

    43: Mountain Jews

    44: Milton, Dante, and Swabia

    45: Inversion of Paul, Eusebia, and Hesychia

    Other related threads around Avalon:

    The Plantation of Northern Ireland

    1871 and 1933 laws

    Debt Jubilee


    Individual posts on Zionism and the Throne of David

    Democracy Ending


    Dimension discusses the term and the Spherical Trigonometry of the Platonic Solids; Wheel of Ezekiel.

    Individual post on St. Gaudens and the Pilgrim
    Last edited by shaberon; 30th October 2023 at 11:47.

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    Exclamation Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    • "2 Kinds of Freedom"
    My subjective perspective grounded in real mass psychological mechanisms:

    The use of the word "capitalism" was created/designed to trap people in labels ... identity politics makes people talk in tunnel vision narratives <<< all by design, and it works: ... So many refuse to look any further ... Thinking in soundbites & talking-points spoon-fed to them 24/7 by (among others) mass brainwashing media.

    01. Vulture Capitalism vs 02. Restrained Capitalism:
    Both use: "Freedom" (let that sink in for a moment)
    • 01. Freedom to exploit anything for a buck and abuse power ... No matter what the consequences are ... Profits above Ethics & Morals.
    • 02. Respecting & following The Constitution ... Bill of Rights ... Nuremberg Code of Ethics etc. etc. >>> NOT taking Freedoms away nor abusing powers to obtain even more power (control) & profit!

    John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
    April 12th, 2023 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 17th April 2023 at 00:19.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Shaberon, thank you.

    To just quote one of those languages that are not English, i.e. French: “il y a à boire et à manger”.

    Something that you may not be so familiar with – which would explain its absence in your grand panorama: the relationship of Christianity with Islam (Christians both from “Rûm” (Constaninople) – the non-Christian philosophers chased from Constantinople went to the Sassanian court and thus contributed, together with Aramaean/Syriac Christianity, to the preservation of classic philosophy in the Arabic and Persian tradition and transmission – and from “Rome” – through the Spanish Muslim Kingdoms and the Crusades: mainly the first of those through Sufism’s inseminating Western Christiany’s post-1000 mystic traditions (role of the Troubadour traditions and courtly love), mainly the second of those through Arabic mystic futuwwah = Persian mystic javânmardî (Arabic fatan and Persian javânmard both meaning “young man”) inseminating the guilds (and hence the original Masons as cathedral builders). This is important for your point because both sufism and futuwwa are not about reason but about reason and intuition “married” (as in Blake), i.e. “mutually transformed by synthesis” (thanks to the Golden Mean — yes, Pythagoras' "five" symbolism).

    Two attempts at linguistic embellishment:

    • Coptic is not Greek, it is the latest version/descendant of Old Egyptian. (“Copt” is the transformation of (Ai-)gupt-os.). (Its present alphabet is derived from the Greek alphabet, though.) I think that Christianity should be understood through not only the Roman and Orthodox versions, but certainly also through the Aramaean texts (arguably the original, still extant (!), versions of the Greek Gospel texts), and most certainly the Coptic versions – where the link between Christianity and Egyptian mysteries is upheld;

    • yes, Greek is a cognate of Sanskrit, but as any Indo-European language family is: Latin, Celtic (!), Germanic, Baltic, Slav, Albanian, Armenian, Persian etc., as well as a few more important “dead” languages..

    As an anecdote: I happen to be a proud and honoured friend of a modern-day French fatan/javânmard, to be more precise: a “compagnon du devoir” who is at present rebuilding the roof of the Paris Notre Dame cathedral (which was, as you may know, incinerated a few years ago by order of the NWO in its attempt to deal a deadly blow to Christianity..).
    Last edited by Michel Leclerc; 12th April 2023 at 21:14.

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Hi Shaberon
    If you don't mind me saying this, what you have posted is not an article but a whole course. And what a terrific course it would be!
    Your knowledge of history appears impressive and many of the subjects you touched upon are ones I find very interesting. I therefore persevered with reading your post for nearly half an hour, but I found the many topics and connections a bit overwhelming. Could you perhaps summarise your whole argument, or where you are going with the dichotomy you pose, so that all the detail is in clearer context ?

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    CAPITALISM - An economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are privately owned and operated for private profit.

    PRIVATE PROPERTY - "As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
    - - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217
    If you concatenate capitalism with private property, you can see the "inconvenient truth".
    ❏ - Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit. -

    If you think about it - the Declaration of Independence states that we are endowed with (natural) rights that include absolute ownership - which makes capitalism a "right" not a "privilege."

    This definition of absolute ownership (capitalism) does NOT include usury, gambling, speculation, extortion, limited liability, or other predatory practices usually attributed to "capitalists". It excludes corporations because they are artificial persons with only qualified ownership - a government privilege.
    • A farmer who owns his own farm is enjoying capitalism.
    • A farmer in hock to the bank is a victim of so-called capitalists.
    And capitalism is diametrically opposed to collective ownership (State ownership) of the means of production, distribution and exchange. (And also opposed to compulsory labor for the benefit of another - compulsory charity under socialist slavery). And let’s not forget to include the indirect control over all business and labor via oppressive taxation and bureaucratic regulation, by the collective State. That definitely voids the right of “absolute ownership of private property”!

    It might be summed up as "What's yours is yours, what's mine is mine, don't trespass."
    Of course, it all boils down to ownership. If you absolutely own yourself, your labor and that which your labor acquired, you're free. If someone else owns you, whole or in part, you're their [censored].

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Thank you Ozmirage.

    Could you, for further clarity, elaborate on the similarity or difference of "Corporations" (corporation/corporate ownership) and “State ownership" (collective ownership)?

    Second question: if there is a difference between the capitalism of the "so-called capitalists” (the bankers, as you say – probably because of the usury component) and the "capitalism" the "farmer who owns his farm" "enjoys”, why call it by the same name? Would it not be helpful to consider "capitalism", as all "-isms" are, an ideological construct (targeted by Marx, among other thinkers), and "capital" as a phase, or a component, of trade and value?

    Or, in other words, doesn’t the concept of “own-ness” and/or “proper-ness” not by its very existence call into existence the concept of “common-ness” and/or “shared-ness”? Hence wouldn’t imply one the other?

    Wouldn’t in that case both capitalism (or “propertyism”) and communism (or “commonism”) be equally ideological as they both turn on the hinge of the “exclusive” and the “absolute”, which in John Rawls’ concept of law, would just not be “fair”?

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Posted by Violet3 (here)
    Hi Shaberon
    If you don't mind me saying this, what you have posted is not an article but a whole course...Could you perhaps summarise your whole argument, or where you are going with the dichotomy you pose, so that all the detail is in clearer context ?

    It is exactly like that.

    Up versus Down.

    It is the same whether using two words or spanning to infinity.

    It is not really my argument either--I am suggesting that if you go through "Against Oligarchy" that it comes out practically identical to what Theosophy calls "materialistic science". All of these are fairly closely related. In the intra-Christian sense, it would seem to me to be an important question about why Greek Orthodoxy which is pushed towards Moscow is unlike the churches of the West?

    It seems to me that quite plainly, we can see the school of Pythagoras and Plato quashed at the beginning of the Dark Age, attempting to re-introduce itself through the Florentine Renaissance, and yet largely being pushed away again while forces we can specify as international banking took over with their own system.

    Any Russian can go into detail about the Great Schism, the Crusades, multiple military invasions, resulting into what is still happening. Same story. Why doesn't the West "fit"?

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
    • yes, Greek is a cognate of Sanskrit, but as any Indo-European language family is: Latin, Celtic (!), Germanic, Baltic, Slav, Albanian, Armenian, Persian etc., as well as a few more important “dead” languages..

    Yes to some extent they are, but Greek is "closer", particularly in its mythology. A significant amount of Indian culture is Hellenized. And, thank you, Coptic only refers to the alphabet.

    No I have never said much about the Islamic world but that is true about the Troubadors and is the reason that there is Romance in the West. Took it from the Arabs.

    Could probably say the same for Alchemy, which is of course dual, referring to substances as well as the human being.

    Islam is a relatively late development; Pythagoras, Buddha, and Confucius were almost contemporaneous, 500s B. C. E. In looking at the Middle East of this time, then, from the Indian perspective, "West" is a degraded branch of Zoroastrianism leading to a kind of redacted Judaism favoring the Demiurge, and the extreme dualism of Mani. This, so to speak, shakes hands with Aristotle to bring us "West" as we know it.

    What seems a bit odd is that Prophet Mohammed PBUH spoke Sunnas coming from a trance which appeared to be the result of an epileptic seizure. Of "miracles" performed by Jesus, some, such as transmuting water to wine, have been held by theologians to probably be metaphorical; what he actually did was believed to be about twenty healings. Many of these dealt with what appeared to be epilepsy which he called "possession". Can this be resolved with "possession by Gabriel" as maybe not being a disease?

    In addition to the Troubadors, whereas the Druids were wiped out, their close cousins the Bards continued.

    Following through from them, the approximate birth of readable English begins with Chaucer, whom, according to Tarpley:

    The degeneracy of English society during these years of Venetian
    ascendancy is chronicled in the writings of Chaucer - the greatest English writer of the age - who
    was an ally of the anti- Venetian Dante- Petrarca- Boccaccio grouping.

    Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Chaucer went to Italy, where he was able to find the Tyrant of Milan, a Republic in Florence, and in Venice. Previews of papers show he took on the early concepts of:



    And as his Perfect Knight:

    Given the times, Theseus, the peacemaker, is an ideal historical
    exemplar. Current opinion held that he was the founder of
    knighthood, the first to bring philosophy to Athens, and the founder
    of political councils for reasoning together. Chaucer makes his
    hero all of these. That he was a historical and not a mythic figure was
    held by the fourteenth-century chroniclers of the history of the
    world. His first epic celebrator, Statius, was a man whom Dante
    made the spokesman for ethical philosophy leading from the encyclopedic lore of the pagans and Virgil to the single truth centered in Christian charity of Beatrice (or theology).

    Now, being a protege' of the White Guelph, Dante, of Florence, then the pits of boiling pitch in hell--those are the shipyards of Venice. These were the times of the Black Plague, when a Venetian mercantile oligarchy was infesting London. This concerns trade across the Silk Road as well, and why Venice becomes significant not just to Rome but to the Byzantines. Chaucer might know something because he learned something brand new right there in Venice:

    Double Entry Bookkeeping

    By allegory:

    In Chaucer's Shipman's Tale, a rich merchant is too tied up with his accounts to notice his wife being wooed by a clergyman.

    Nor do those accounts rescue him from an audacious con.

    The clergyman borrows the merchant's money, gives it to the merchant's wife - buying his way into her bed with her own husband's cash - and then tells the merchant he's repaid the debt, and to ask his wife where the money is.

    Accountancy is a powerful financial technology - but it does not protect us from outright fraud, and it may well lure us into complacency. As the neglected wife tells her rich husband, his nose buried in his accounts: "the devil take all such reckonings!"

    That was the only way you could say things without getting into a lot of trouble. Coming from a Dark Age, then, yes, popular poems and songs would have been the necessary way to creep around authority, by vague hints and suggestions. Dante and Chaucer were at a time when Venice had been a unit for five centuries. Quite early on, the Duke had been subjugated by a Council of oligarchy. This becomes a recognizable trait of their influence. Even from its origin, it developed inheritable Pillars of Wealth, Fondi, origin of today's Foundations. As private wealth it had no difficulty transferring to England, and the eventual fate of Venice became irrelevant.

    As one can see, it must be the rival of the central authority systems of the Pope and France. Such enmity is the main conditioning factor that envelops most of the European continent.

    In response to other comments, I had some resources from the political discussion, and this will also brush a huge pile of Arabic gratitude. Have to look closely.

    It is an interesting question about how "private ownership" ought to work. Many communities around Jesus owned no property, largely by choice, some elected for total communes.

    Without making a doctrine totally opposing ownership--it is possible that an aspect of Capitalism may be useful, but, what we want to criticize can only be given amorphous names like Politcal capitalism, a system of wealth extraction:

    Political capitalism is closer to fascism than to either capitalism or socialism.

    Political capitalism is a system in which the
    policies are designed by the economic elite to enable them to retain
    their dominant positions. This is not the market economy described
    by comparative economic systems, nor is it some mixture of markets
    and central planning.

    So when Western countries call themselves Capitalists, as if theirs was the only kind, and no other "market economy" was possible, we can just accept the name they give themselves. Since none of the "-isms" exist in nature, they are only a manner of talking. The main show has to do with private banks taking losses, causing the tax payers to clean up the mess, and shifting the blame.

    Considering who may "privately own" something, if a citizen is reduced to things such as Real Estate, I am going to suggest it is not the status of citizen which is at fault, but those laws which make things into estate.

    I have spent time looking at why American citizenship is a "trick", that some wise people in the early 1800s must have avoided in order to assert their rights, and I haven't found them. If only an American National could have private property, something has gone wrong. Who are these people? The term "national" only has significance internationally, and what it means internally is up to the individual country.

    It is the basis of "different kinds of persons" in Citizenship Definitional 1911:

    In English law, "national" has one sole meaning, "subject".

    French law however clearly recognizes two kinds of nationals, just as in the title of the piece by M. de La Fayette which is the Preamble of every Constitution, still valid and enforced as recently as 1971:

    Declaration of the Rights of Man, and of the Citizen

    Lafayette prepared the principal drafts in consultation with his close friend Thomas Jefferson.

    The declaration defines a single set of individual and collective rights for all men. Influenced by the doctrine of natural rights, these rights are held to be universal and valid in all times and places. For example, "Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions may be founded only upon the general good." They have certain natural rights to property, to liberty, and to life. According to this theory, the role of government is to recognize and secure these rights.

    Because of the requirements set down for active citizens, the vote was granted to approximately 4.3 million Frenchmen out of a population of around 29 million.

    So the citizen is an Elector, and can participate in government. In France, you are not born as, but have to take additional steps, to become a citizen.

    America follows the British model, although it is not quite hermetically sealed. Here, "national" means "citizen", with few certain exceptions. In general, the citizen is not a higher or special class of "man" like in France. It is primarily based in having taken an Oath to the State during the Revolutionary era. That is what Jefferson means by "consent".

    You became a citizen, or they threw you out. Then, your descendants are automatically citizens, unless you take additional steps to refuse it.

    The colonies did not like restrictive British policies on adding new subjects. Subsequently, the Constitution is a way to raise a taxing base and so there is even more desire to admit new workers to pay more taxes. Yet compared to the British, Americans might only have been said to have relaxed policies towards Catholics and Jews in the Naturalization Act of 1790:

    The law limited naturalization to "free White person(s) ... of good character", thus excluding Native Americans, indentured servants, enslaved people, free black people, and later Asians, although free black people were allowed citizenship at the state level in many states. The courts also associated whiteness with Christianity and thus excluded Muslim immigrants from citizenship until the decision Ex Parte Mohriez recognized citizenship for a Saudi Muslim man in 1944.

    I'm guessing they weren't associating Christianity with Islam, but some of those immigrants must have become American Nationals.

    A person is not born as a non-citizen national, and becoming a citizen by some act. There are certain terms about how one may be born a non-citizen national in Nationality Act of 1940, page three, Sec. 204. It takes place in "outlying possessions". This has the Pacific Islands in mind.

    The Supreme Court ruled in favor of citizenship by birthright in 1830. In 1853, it was noted that an Austrian refugee who had been living and working in the United States for a number of years was a national, but not a citizen.

    American citizenship, as in the case of a minor during the Revolution, there was the disputed election of Smith 1789:

    ...I must own that I feel myself at liberty to decide, that Mr. Smith was a citizen at the declaration of independence, a citizen at the time of his election, and consequently entitled to a seat in this legislature.

    Cong. Register description begins Thomas Lloyd, comp., The Congressional Register; or, History of the Proceedings and Debates of the First House of Representatives … (2 vols.; New York, 1789; Evans 22203–4). description ends , I, 391–95. The House decided overwhelmingly in favor of Smith. Many years later JM recalled this contested election when composing his essay on sovereignty (“Sovereignty,” [1835], Madison, Writings [Hunt ed.] description begins Gaillard Hunt., ed., The Writings of James Madison (9 vols.; New York, 1900–1910). description ends , IX, 570).

    He was a citizen simply by living, regardless of oath.

    Having received this form of rebuke, the accuser wrote an apologetic tract on the current views in Ramsay 1789:

    ...citizens possess
    in their own right original sovereignty.
    There is also a great difference between citizens, and
    inhabitants or residents.
    Any person living within a country or state, is an inha
    bitant of it,. or resident in it.
    Negroes are inhabitants, but not citizens. Citizenship
    confers a right of voting at elections, and many other privileges not enjoyed by those who are no more than inhabitants...

    So, yes, they recognized non-citizen nationals then, too.

    For the most part, citizenship means not necessarily having fought in, but agreed to the pact of, the Revolution.

    Ramsay explains the requirements for President from Article II:

    No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

    This was drafted in 1787 when it would have been physically impossible to have been a citizen for fourteen years, although you could have been resident.

    Certainly the group of "free white people" were citizens, and it may be interesting to find the first case of anyone revoking consent for socio-economic reasons. If the fight is over, why would we take an Oath?

    Did the original fighters know they would pass us along to a Totalitarian Democracy, wherein the right to vote is a ruse? The idea behind the Constitution is that the country assumes the debts of the States, and gains power to raise more taxes. This could not have worked under the Articles.

    The perhaps more pressing difficulty is illustrated by the first two National Banks. There were two, because corporations were limited to twenty-year charters. They were mostly for infrastructure projects like bridges and canals. They were routinely investigated and sometimes broken up. In 1871, corporations become legally accepted as "persons". The idea of slavery, that a person is property, has been replaced by corporatism, that property is a person.

    Some have also complained that a "second government" was born around that time--but that is just the corporate form of the town of Washington, D. C., because all localities and municipalities are corporations. This means they can be bankrupted, while a Sovereign--State or Country--cannot.

    If laws are unfavorable to the citizenry, no, I don't think the Revolutionaries would have wanted that. They did something for the first time, which may be expressed more clearly in France as Man and the Citizen. Because the term "national" has a main meaning of "a subject", I am not sure where the interpretation "not a subject" might come from.

    There are countries with No Property or Real Estate Tax such as Croatia, Malta, and Sri Lanka. Usually when we pay this, we do not directly pay for services. Most likely the Fire Department gets its budget from a Bond, and the tax revenue is for financing bonds. If you had Private Property rather than Real Estate, you would not have to pay this tax--or they could repeal the tax.

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Hidden in Mariupol

    Here is another look at how something from a few centuries ago continues to condition us today.

    These posts are not an attempt to say that everything Greek is better or right, nor that everyone involved understood all the possibilities and details. But it is saying something about what has effectively been purged and replaced by substitutes over the course of time, in strongly related scenarios.

    I had not thought of the possibility as in the previous post that Chaucer knew Dante.

    But then if so, one can be somewhat confident that apparent similarities are not by chance. Among peers, such as Thomas Jefferson and M. de La Fayette, similar expressions probably do mean the same thing. Not a big jump.

    Such personages make reasonable historical markers, and there are not that many of them.

    Another famous writer, who attaches to Hellenic culture, is Lord Byron. Of him personally, we don't need to say much, other than for no apparent reason, the Greek cause sounded important to him and he went to contribute.

    It sort of becomes a culture without a country.

    A culture is a Nation; a country is a State. A State can be invented overnight. A Nation can be, and often is, stateless, or has less power in its country than someone else. In fact, the names of many countries refer to an invading group that overwhelmed the locals, like a string on a map, Scotland, England, France are not "aboriginal", neither is Turkey. Turkish is a Central Asian culture, which migrated quite far. It wound up seizing a lot of Biblical and Greek areas, and would have gone farther into Europe, except for knights such as "Count Dracula" who defeated them.

    At first, they were allied tribes, rather than an Empire. Then, like Clovis, one of the local chieftains, Osman, gained superiority over the others and became the namesake of a country.

    The Ottoman Empire had formed in Asia Minor, with the assistance of Venice, to the detriment of the Byzantines. Constantinople fell around 1453, however:

    Due to tension between the states of western Europe and the later Byzantine Empire, the majority of the Orthodox population accepted Ottoman rule as preferable to Venetian rule.

    The Muslims developed a form of segregation which said, well, you can be a religion "of the Book", in which case you are going to pay additional taxes.

    Naturally, this leads to vested interest in keeping Christians alive, and relatively well off, so they could pay more taxes:

    The grand influence of mercantilism made Ottoman Greece a rich state; maritime trade was the source of funding for schools and parishes. The dominance of the Greek Orthodox Church played a pivotal role in the preservation of Greek national identity.

    Centuries after the Great Schism, any original unity of culture with the West had crumbled:

    ...in 1573–81 a lengthy correspondence was initiated by Lutheran scholars from Tübingen (in Germany). Although interesting as a historical event, this correspondence, which includes the Answers of Patriarch Jeremias II (patriarch 1572–95), shows how little mutual understanding was possible at that time between the reformers and traditional Eastern Christianity.

    Some people were surprised that there was Christianity in these regions.

    And so a little further along there comes the idea of a type of Monarchist Revolution. Every place in Ukraine ending with -pol came about as part of The Plan:

    The Greek Plan or Greek Project (Russian: Греческий проект) was an early solution to the Eastern Question which was advanced by Catherine the Great in the early 1780s. It envisaged the partition of the Ottoman Empire between the Russian and Habsburg Empires followed by the restoration of the Eastern Roman Empire centered in Constantinople.

    Like her predecessors, Catherine concerned herself with the Orthodox Christians under Ottoman rule...

    In May 1780, Catherine arranged a secret meeting with Joseph II, the Holy Roman Emperor, in Mogilyov. In a series of letters from September 1781, Catherine and Joseph discussed their plans to partition the Ottoman Empire and restore the Byzantine Empire. The Austro-Russian alliance was formalized in May 1781.

    The Greek Plan was masterminded by Prince Potemkin who gave Greek names to the newly founded towns in New Russia (e.g., Odessa and Kherson).

    Joseph's death in 1790, followed by the Treaty of Jassy and the Treaty of Sistova, in which Austria gained little, effectively ended the agreement.

    For a while, everyone's attention went to the French Revolution and Napoleon. But then shortly--no longer emphasizing removal of the Ottoman by replacement of the Byzantine--the revolutionary ideal moves forward as Greek Independence, 1821:

    Afraid of the complications the partition of the empire might raise, the British foreign minister Viscount Castlereagh, Austrian foreign minister Prince Metternich, and the Tsar of Russia Alexander I shared the same view concerning the necessity of preserving the status quo and the peace of Europe.

    The news of the revolution was greeted with dismay by the conservative leaders of Europe, committed to upholding the system established at the Congress of Vienna, but was greeted with enthusiasm by many ordinary people across Europe.

    Citizens of the United States, from elite as well as modest socioeconomic backgrounds, supported the Greek cause, donating money and supplies to numerous philhellenic groups in both the northern and southern United States.

    In the 1820s, most of the western world was excited about Greek independence and either sent money or actually went to fight. They perhaps have no clue about the culture, other than the Turks must be lesser. If there had been any danger of a Byzantine restoration, note how deftly it is swept under the rug:

    ...the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca, under which Russia had a vague claim to be the protector of all the Orthodox peoples of the Ottoman Empire, would lead to Russia going to war against the Ottomans. In turn, the British Foreign Secretary George Canning wrote, rather than run the risk of Russia defeating the Ottomans alone, Britain would have to intervene to stop the "barbarisation project" as the British did not wish to see the Russians conquer the Ottoman Empire.

    They believed the Turks were going to begin a system of deportation, which was probably not true. Once the revolution started, because there were pogroms, that legitimized British interest in "Christians". This proceeded to something relatively easy:

    These measures led to the increase of British influence. This influence was reinforced by the issuing of two loans that the Greeks managed to conclude with British fund-holders in 1824 and 1825. These loans, which, in effect, made the City of London the financier of the revolution, inspired the creation of the "British" political party in Greece, whose opinion was that the revolution could only end in success with the help of Britain. At the same time, parties affiliated to Russia and France made their appearance. These parties would later strive for power during king Otto's reign.

    Oh. So far, from other sources, we found this new British Foreign Secretary as the first major public figure to make a blatantly racist anti-Russian remark, which exactly is the same attitude as seen today:

    In May 1832, Palmerston convened the London Conference. The three Great Powers, Britain, France and Russia, offered the throne to the Bavarian prince, Otto of Wittelsbach...

    That doesn't sound like the Plan working out as intended. There was still an Ottoman Empire, Crimean War, and so on. They really wanted to install Leopold of Belgium who refused. It has become heavily Anglicized and the British had nothing to do with it originally.

    The original idea is the exact area that Russia is recovering these days.

    Prior to him, it was not quite so bad:

    After her victories in the war, Catherine II was depicted in portraits dressed in the military uniforms of Great Britain, which was initially a willing ally to Russia because of the trade between the two countries.

    There was a fairly solid relationship for a while, but not for Palmerston. There is a relatively rapid, apparently irrational, change in national consciousness, appearing to stem from or relate to his cold calculations.

    Catherine's plan would have created the red and blue countries. You can't miss Venice as the bright blue green which holds a swath of the sea:

    This is the trend of conservative powers, which as we have seen are not quite a consensus with the people:


    Prussia, Austria, and Great Britain offered to mediate the dispute between Russia and the Ottomans to halt Russia's expansion.


    ...the friction caused by the mutual complaints of infringements of the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca, which had ended the previous war, stirred up public opinion in Constantinople, while the British and French ambassadors lent their unconditional support to the Ottoman war party.


    ...if not for the French Revolution, the Ottoman Empire's situation could have been much worse.

    The outcome did not turn out to be another Byzantine Monarch.

    It is entirely likely that British interest in the French Revolution was also a way of buying time for the Russian Idea to go away and leave the Ottomans intact. After the revolts in Greece:

    Under pressure from Russia, the Porte finally agreed on the terms of the Treaty of London of 6 July 1827 and of the Protocol of 22 March 1829. Soon afterward, Britain and France conceived the idea of an independent Greek state, trying to limit the influence of Russia on the new state.

    Greece is now a Monarchy--of the imported Bavarian variety, Otto, not an Enlightened Monarch representing Popular Sovereignty:

    They also insisted that his title be "King of Greece", rather than "King of the Hellenes", because the latter would imply a claim over the millions of Greeks then still under Turkish rule.

    Britain and the Rothschild bank, who were underwriting the Greek loans, insisted on financial stringency from Armansperg. The Greeks were soon more heavily taxed than under Ottoman rule; as the people saw it, they had exchanged a hated Ottoman rule for government by a foreign bureaucracy, the "Bavarocracy".

    Armansperg and Rundhart, established a controversial policy of suppressing the monasteries.

    Otto was overwhelmed by the arcana of Orthodox Church doctrine and popular discontent with his Roman Catholicism (while the Queen was Protestant).

    Tolerance of other religions was over-supported by some in the English Party and others educated in the West as a symbol of Greece's progress as a liberal European state.

    From then on it is heavily Anglicized and just keeps having hard times. There were two revolutions under Otto, which produced a Constitution, so the next king actually had Greek votes even though he was Danish.

    Howell 2002 on Bavarian farmers meeting global capitalism in the 1880s:

    Bavarian peasant-farmers of the Kaiserreich may have believed that they
    could remain small-farmers, secure their best interests, and participate in the greater system of
    capitalism and markets. However, the fact that they (and others like them) slowly bought into a
    system that would consequentially transform their way of life, shows that they did not quite
    understand the ramifications of their participation.

    That is how it seems to go. The Dalai Lama or the Greek Revolutionaries probably weren't aware of what western collusion could get them into. Neither were most Bavarian folks at home.

    Carbonari type organizations are usually anti-Absolutist, but may accept a Constitutional Monarch. Like the Americans, they probably don't have a Constitution in hand which they simply install. The origin of the Greek revolutionaries was from the Greek Hotel formed in Paris, 1809. Its main inspiration appears to be from a scholar of ancient Greece, the Monarchist French ambassador to Ottoman Empire:

    Empress Catherine the Great became friends with him and gave him lands and a domain in what is now Lithuania.

    He did not return to France until the Amnesty of 1802.

    The Greek platform was unclear, other than it was anti-Ottoman.

    The core of it was almost exclusively a Masonic Oath.

    The Friendly Society also had a founding member who was part of the Freemasonry of
    Lefkada, one of the Ionian islands, fascinating enough for its own history and its Castle.

    Grand Lodge Greece does not quite seem to show its full backstory. The home page lists the Lodges with dates of their current charters. Not that many of them are very old.

    We can discover the first Lodge opening from a Brief History:

    1740 in the Italian-dominated Corfu...

    taking authority from:

    ...Verona based in Padua, with the concurrence of the Scottish Directory of Italy, which belonged to the General Directory of Lyon. The diploma is dated June 13, 1782 and is signed by the Grand Master Count Markos Harvouris. The Cephalonian by origin, famous physician and chemist of his time and first professor of chemistry in the chair he founded the University of Padua, presides over the Italian Lodges and we must mention his close relationship with General Melissinos who will establish the first purely Russian Masonic system who will rule for years in this great empire of the east. The reference is made to note the relationship but also the influence that Greek brothers have on European Masonic development, long before the existence of the modern Greek state.

    In 1816 and after the Ionian Islands have come under the rule of the English, Romas motivates the brothers to establish an independent Greek national power, the Sérénissime Grand Orient de la Grèce/ Serene Grand Orient of Greece .

    In 1862 former members of the Astir Lodge together with English officers founded in Zakynthos the Symbolic Lodge “Star of the East” no. 880 which is the only Lodge in the Greek Territory that is still under the auspices of the United Grand Lodge of England.

    I believe that is why all the modern charters reflect this Serene Grand Orient.

    Ionian Masonry probably comes from this trek which recognizes Mother Kilwinning:

    Around 1726, there is information about the operation of a Masonic Lodge in Constantinople and in the region of Galata.

    There is no evidence of the Grand Lodge from which it was even named, but many Greek scholars mention this Lodge. It is likely that it was made up of European diplomats and merchants, mostly Genoese, operating at the time in the capital of the Ottoman Empire.

    In 1744 the Scot Alexander Drummond was appointed consul of Great Britain in Aleppo, Syria. At the same time he is authorized by the Grand Lodge of Scotland to establish Lodges in the eastern Mediterranean and has been given the title of “Regional Grand Master for the Mediterranean countries of Europe and Asia”.

    He then arrives in Smyrna where there was Masonic activity as early as 1738 and according to his testimony he founds a Masonic Lodge. Finally, passing through Cyprus, he ends up in Aleppo and establishes another Lodge. Both used the name of the Kilwinning Mother Lodge of Scottish Freemasonry.

    The easiest way I can explain it is that Mother Kilwinning is accepted by all Masons as having Lodge minutes at least as early as 1642. But it is not, directly, "Lodge One" of the charter-granting system of English Freemasonry. Inarguably, it "is" Scottish, and this is exactly what has to be dissected from Scottish Rite Templar myths. There was a guy called Chevalier Ramsay who grew up near Rosslyn Chapel. From admiring this, he formed his own conclusion, and he went to London where in 1736 he suddenly "announced" it. Obviously some people swallowed it wholesale. This is what we are criticizing as that part of the English system which becomes purloined by Jesuits, in the Hegelian mode of exacerbating problems so you will turn to the R. C. C. for solutions. So of course that "works like" the Carbonari, but, for different purposes. Almost nothing can be monolithic. Various regional Carbonaris could easily have multiple differences from each other.

    Just to re-think the "Judeo-Masonic" theory of the Jesuits:

    Following a subject we might call Phoenix Lodge in the Greek Diaspora, the Parisian Greek Hotel was not a success.

    In 1790 in Vienna an organization similar in some respects to the Masons was formed by Greek merchants and intellectuals. It was called “Bon Cuisins,” and was presumably associated with the Greek pre-revolutionary intellectual Rigas Feraios...

    In the Friendly Society:

    ...the members of the organization were inevitably high-born and ambitious, and included many Phanariots living in Russia. They firmly believed in the mutual obligation to the Etairia’s secrecy, to the extent that those who revealed its secrets were murdered.

    With such severity was the Filiki Etairia able to maintain its cohesion and, in less than seven years, to encompass the length and breadth of Greek populations in Europe, from Alexandria and Antioch to Budapest and Trieste. Most importantly, it created the intellectual foundations upon which a revolutionary uprising could be established.

    Phanar is the Greek Quarter in Constantinople. This is saying from 1814-1821 the movement became popular enough to have been sent 40,000 rifles. The Church was not favorable to Masonry or revolutions. The Friendly Society was more like a revolution using Masonry as a recruiting ground; or, generally, being a Mason is equivalent to a period of "Carbonari probation" if you were not. Consequently, most members probably were Orthodox. The Phanariots have been sitting on the nexus of the Silk Road since about 600 B. C. E. and so of course they have long been wealthy from mercantilism. Not necessarily in a predatorial fashion.

    This movement is not saying "destroy church and monarch", and it more or less puts in another monarch, but not to the extent of eliminating the Sultan.

    As the anti-Ottoman movement spreads, in Bulgaria:

    Slavophiles, led by Fyodor Dostoevsky, saw in the impending war the chance to unite all Orthodox nations under Russia’s helm, thus fulfilling what they believed was the historic mission of Russia, while their opponents, westernizers, led by Ivan Turgenev, denied the importance of religion and believed that Russian goals should not be defense of Orthodoxy but liberation of Bulgaria.

    The American view at this time would certainly be that such Ottomans were not welcome as citizens, as there was the presumption of "Christian", for which Greek usually qualifies, even if the difference is not obvious. There was a kind of nationalistic idolization since education or knowledge was believed to have come from Greece. America designed buildings based on what it makes of Greek architecture. This situation may not have been grasped by them.

    The liberation or independence of a country is not quite the same as the question of culture. A culture resembles a monarch, and the idea of revolution is not inherently anti-monarchial, which would be the Communist kind. This Greek situation was happening around the time of Mazzini, compared to whom, it perhaps is likely that Garibaldi had figured out the international challenges a little more sharply, for example he refused to work for Abraham Lincoln. He unified Italian culture in a way other than the Pope.

    If Greece is not Byzantium and not a powerful ally of Russia, that would be Palmerston, whose ideology provided the dispute in Ukraine we are currently seeing.

    Catherine would have simply given it to her grandson, who was raised for the purpose, b. 1779:

    ...the second son of Emperor Paul I and Sophie Dorothea of Württemberg.

    Mom in this case is the namesake of Mariupol: Maria Feodorovna in Russia. Same person. She is of Wurttemburg, which as we have seen, was the lair of old Rosicrucianism, it was moderately rebellious against the HRE, and the Pope:

    During 1534 to 1537 Duke Ulrich introduced the Protestant Reformation, and the country became Protestant.

    Ulrich died on 6 November 1550 at Tübingen...

    Oh. This is where the Germans don't understand the Greeks, but at least they talk to them.

    Maria's emblem of office is that which HPB used to explain Rose Cross:

    But in her case, HPB personally owned and was giving a description of the very famous Cagliostro Jewel:

    H.P.B. calls the pelican “the most important” and “the best known of the Rosicrucians’ symbols.” In Hindu mythology, the swan (Hansa) is the symbol of the primordial Ray emanating from darkness. A universal matrix, water, is postulated for the reception of the one ray (the Logos) containing the other seven procreative rays. Thus, the swan, or any aquatic fowl—a pelican, as chosen by the Rosicrucians—represents the Spirit of the unrevealed, abstract Deity moving on the waters, and then from the water giving birth to other beings.

    The true significance of the Eighteenth Degree of the Rose-Croix is precisely this, though poetised later on into the motherly feeling of the Pelican rending its bosom to feed its seven little ones with its blood.

    That is from a more extensive article giving a better view of Cagliostro.

    Wurttemberg was most certainly the "Rosicrucian capital", influencing Hegel, the Moravian Comenius, and having as its Princess Antonia:

    This article explores the complex interweaving of kabbalistic and Christological concepts within the kabbalistic “teaching panel” (Lehrtafel) of Princess Antonia of Württemberg. The essay discusses the artwork in the context of visual representations of the ten sefirot, the divine attributes or vessels in Jewish mysticism. Executed as an altarpiece for the church in Bad Teinach in Southern Germany, the work integrates the sefirot into a pansophic concept that served devotional and educational purposes with a salvific goal.

    HPB explained the Eighteenth Degree to others who were themselves Masons and Rosicrucians, etc., and yet it would appear to have been understood better by the Mother of Constantine. New Byzantium would have been its own country, not a part of the Russian Empire. Independent Greece appears to have become a competition between various foreign interests.

    Regarding the original Plan, the Knights of Malta were originally granted territory precisely because they had defeated the Ottomans. Not the empire but a decisive battle. They were driven off Rhodes in 1522, moved to Malta and successively defended it in 1565:

    After seven years of moving from place to place in Europe, the Knights became established in 1530 when Emperor Charles V, as King of Sicily, gave them Malta, Gozo and the North African port of Tripoli in perpetual fiefdom in exchange for an annual fee of a single Maltese falcon, which they were to send on All Souls' Day to the King's representative, the Viceroy of Sicily.

    [1565]...This victory became one of the most celebrated events of sixteenth-century Europe, to the point that Voltaire said: "Nothing is better known than the siege of Malta." It undoubtedly contributed to the eventual erosion of the European perception of Ottoman invincibility...

    If anything, their first personal goal would have been re-taking Rhodes, although this is not quite what happened.

    Because of Napoleon:

    The Russian Emperor, Paul I, gave the largest number of knights shelter in Saint Petersburg, an action which gave rise to the Russian tradition of the Knights Hospitaller and the Order's recognition among the Russian Imperial Orders. The refugee knights in Saint Petersburg proceeded to elect Tsar Paul as their Grand Master – a rival to Grand Master von Hompesch until the latter's abdication left Paul as the sole Grand Master. Grand Master Paul I created, in addition to the Roman Catholic Grand Priory, a "Russian Grand Priory" of no fewer than 118 Commanderies, dwarfing the rest of the Order and open to all Christians. Paul's election as Grand Master was never ratified under Roman Catholic canon law, and he was the de facto rather than de jure Grand Master of the Order.

    What we know as Sovereign Military Order of Malta is a different organization. Several Protestant countries have branches.

    The group as a whole was originally supported privately from Amalfi:

    During the late 9th century, long-distance trade revived between Amalfi and Gaeta with Byzantine, the latter which benefited from a flourishing trade network with the Arabs.

    An independent republic from the 7th century until 1073, Amalfi extracted itself from Byzantine vassalage in 839 and first elected a duke in 958; it rivalled Pisa and Genoa in its domestic prosperity and maritime importance before the rise of the Republic of Venice.

    Along with Venice, Crusades and Ottomans.

    Those three more or less erased the Greek Nation, which we can only say has come back as a liberated State.

    It is not that hard to understand Malta as a type of initiatic center towards Europe for something that would not have been accepted or understood by most people. To the extent this involves "revolution", it is not strictly anti-monarchist, not even in America. In some way, also, it is not strict Catholicism, which was risky. HPB takes it back to the Druze who are Neo-Platonic:

    An ancient
    Druze manuscript— the Unique Fifth Science
    — identifies these eight sages as Pythagoras,
    Socrates, Aristotle, Plotinus, Plato, Parmenides, Democrates and Empedocles.

    What was literally happening at her time was the Papal Bull of Infallibility 1870.

    Leo XIII 1880:

    Reinstates the privileges of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits), nullifying the bull Dominus ac Redemptor Noster of 21 July 1773.

    It has been suggested Pius IX was again to suppress heresy, such as the Johannite Heresy.

    The Johannite idea is visible in Levi's Dogma and Ritual:

    ...the French Revolution, daughter of the great Johannite Orient and the ashes of
    the Templars...

    and even moreso in History.

    It is found in Dresden 1810, is also Scottish, and banned in England from 1818.

    There was a French Johannite Church, along with its rumors of condemnation by Pius IX aimed at the chief of the sect, Bernard Fabre-Palaprat.

    The schism actually entered Constantinople in the 400s.

    A Catholic apology for Pius IX blames Palmerston for Bismark, Mazzini, and Garibaldi.

    The lore aspect of Johannism is most likely substantial, although personal claims most likely not. The real Johannites are named in Isis Unveiled:

    "Pythagoras correctly regarded the 'Ineffable Name' of God . . . as the Key to the Mysteries of the universe." — Pancoast: Blue and Red Light.

    Glancing rapidly at the Ophites and Nazareans, we shall pass to their scions which yet exist in Syria and Palestine, under the name of Druzes of Mount Lebanon; and near Basra or Bassorah, in Persia, under that of Mendaeans, or Disciples of St. John. All these sects have an immediate connection with our subject, for they are of kabalistic parentage and have once held to the secret "Wisdom Religion," recognizing as the One Supreme, the Mystery-God of the Ineffable Name. Noticing these numerous secret societies of the past, we will bring them into direct comparison with several of the modern. We will conclude with a brief survey of the Jesuits, and of that venerable nightmare of the Roman Catholic Church — modern Freemasonry. All of these modern as well as ancient fraternities — present Freemasonry excepted — were and are more or less connected with magic — practically, as well as theoretically; and, every one of them — Freemasonry not excepted — was and still is accused of demonolatry, blasphemy, and licentiousness.

    Our object is not to write the history of either of them; but only to compare these sorely-abused communities with the Christian sects, past and present, and then, taking historical facts for our guidance, to defend the secret science as well as the men who are its students and champions against any unjust imputation.

    And another warning from Trials and Triumph:

    Yet, there never was an Occult Society, however open and sincere, that has not felt the hand of the Jesuit trying to pull it down by every secret means. The Jesuits infected mankind with passivity, ignorance, and superstition in order to impose their Universal Despotism unopposed.

    It seems correct that Papal power bites the dust after this era.

    The English reason for it is not the same as the Russian.

    The Hospitallers named the original hospitals for John the Baptist and Mary Magdalene. HPB quite specifically says that the Templars were initiated by Theoclete, and that the "modern" French version is Jesuitry, the Charter of Larmenius being an invention.

    It is possible that Pius IX was intimidated by the possibility of any confirming evidence that Johannism--though likely not being a legitimate French inheritance--nevertheless is real or is an actual culture. What perhaps is even more threatening, is that not only is it not Christian, it is not Jewish either. It respects Adam and many of the same Patriarchs and Prophets, but looks like a completely different story. It has nothing really to do with Europe, but has not been overwhelmed, dissipated, or censored either.

    Druzeism is not at odds with Orthodoxy in the milieu of HPB:

    ...in a letter to her sister, Vera de Zhelihovsky, dating from February 1877, where she writes that “the Orthodox faith of my Russian brethren [is] sacred to me! . . . I will always defend that faith and Russia, and shall challenge the attacks of the hypocritical Catholics against them, as long as my hand can hold a pen, without fear of either the threats of their Pope or the wrath of the Roman Church—la Grande Bête de l’Apocalypse” (“the Great Beast of Revelation”; Algeo, 289).

    While writing Isis Unveiled, Blavatsky was anxious to make sure that its extensive critique of Christianity would not be understood amiss by her favorite aunt, Nadyezhda de Fadeyev. In a letter dated July 19, 1877, Blavatsky wrote to her, “Understand me; our own Orthodox Faith stands by itself. The book does not mention it. I have refused point blank to analyze it, as I wish to preserve at least one small corner of my heart where suspicion could not crawl in a feeling put down with all my strength . . . The Master himself admits this and says that the only people in the world whose faith is not a speculation, are the Orthodox people” (Algeo, 315–16).

    Moreover, in a letter to Mme. de Fadeyev, dated October 28–29, 1877 (shortly after the publication of Isis Unveiled), Blavatsky wrote, “Of course you will not find one word therein against the Orthodox Church. Why? Your Church is the purest and the truest, and all the ugly human things, as well as all the little ‘enemies’ . . . will not suffice to desecrate it. In the Russian Orthodox Church alone is Divine Truth established, firmly established.” She adds, however, that this truth “is buried in the foundations; it cannot be found on the surface” (Algeo, 343).

    However the Druze may have something to do with India as related in The Mahatma Letters in reaction to the British bombardment of Alexandria, 1882:

    The Egyptian operations of your blessed countrymen involve such local consequences to the body of Occultists still remaining there and to what they are guarding, that two of our adepts are already there, having joined some Druze brethren and three more on their way.

    The main thing that appealed to them in Europe was the discovery by Crookes of Plasma in 1879. There is also a little-known theory by the Materialist Baron d'Holbach which reasons its way to the conclusion that consciousness must also be some form of matter. The Mahatmas agree that this is correct in a way that is above/beyond Plasma as the Fourth State of matter. This would seem to refute the current definition that a Bose-Einstein Condensate is the Fifth Form simply because it is "another form" and not a normal type of environment where humans live.

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    At first here I pulled up a handful of sources, which usually have their strengths and weaknesses.

    ISGP is excellent for the modern period, and then almost useless for ancient history.

    The Masonic site on Anti-Masonry is excellent for that, and of course remains couched in a normative Christian understanding.

    What ISGP contends is something I also found myself. In terms of relatively modern research, Lyndon Larouche turns out to be the most factual--and there again you just need to draw the line at his own propaganda. He ran a type of pyramid scheme for a political platform that could best be described as "everyone against the Communists". For years, they created a magazine, Executive Review, and for example when he got started, one of John Coleman's most important "inside sources" was a few boxes of the Executive Review. Well, the parts of it that are true remain true, and we might suspect both of those guys had some additional agenda.

    Webster Tarpley split from the Larouche organization. I haven't gone through the whole story, but I think he might have needed to wash his hands. The material I have looked at is not quite against a political party, but a mentality.

    In a comparative analysis of two stories, what Tarpley and Theosophy have in common is they both intend to represent Neo-Platonism and argue against Aristotelianism.

    Here is an archive of Against Oligarchy on one page--which makes things rapidly searchable.

    Tarpley is quite good from an academic political science perspective, but, he has failed to realize that the Theosophists and certain Rosicrucian adepts are the same as the Medici Renaissance (Platonic) that he paints as the main rival to Venice (Aristotelian). For one thing he has not quite distinguished the State from the Greek Nation:

    ...if the Ottoman Empire is considered as the Ottoman dynasty of an ongoing Byzantine Empire...

    and he makes a common misunderstanding:

    Count Cagliostro (Giuseppe Balsamo)

    One wonders if he has missed the point, almost completely, except otherwise he is fairly accurate. As with most, we don't expect him to be particularly good at unravelling Philhellenism. His book came from lectures given in the 1990s, so I don't know if anything more recent is more accommodating.

    He foresees the threat of Entente:

    For Britain to rule the world, the Holy Alliance of Austria, Russia, and Prussia had to be broken
    up. There is also the matter of the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire. Starting with Lord
    Byron's Greek Revolution in the 1820s, British policy has been to play the card of national
    liberation against each of these rival empires.

    That would be the Communist platform, anti-monarchial is what they mean by "liberation".

    And, adding another racist forerunner in the early nineteenth century:

    Urquhart also thought
    that late Ottoman feudalism was a model of what civilization ought to be. In Turkey, Urquhart
    became convinced that all the evil in the world had a single root: Russia, the machinations of the
    court of St. Petersburg. A very convenient view for Palmerston's Britain, which was always on
    the verge of war with Russia. For Urquhart, the unification of Italy is a Russian plot.

    But Tarpley's main subject is Venice. This is what he is trying to obliterate. He goes through their early days of old world slavery, and, briefly summarizing their rise in importance:

    What was the Venetian political intelligence method? The classical Venetian predicament is that of
    the weaker power attempting to play off two or more major empires. This was the case when the
    Venetian power was in its very infancy, and survival depended upon playing off the Langobard
    Kingdom of Italy against the Byzantines. This ploy was later replaced by the attempt to play the
    Byzantines off against the Carolingian Empire in the West, an attempt that almost misfired when
    the army of Charlemagne under Pippin laid siege to Venice inside its lagoons. That siege,
    however, was not successful.

    In the eleventh century, the Venetians successfully incited the Norman barons operating out of
    Sicily under Robert Guiscard to attack Byzantium, and then moved in to offer the desperate
    Byzantines protection. The price for that protection was indicated by the famous Golden Bull of
    1082, a decree of the Byzantine Emperor by which Venice acquired tax customs-free access to
    the whole of the eastern empire, where the Greeks themselves had to pay a tax of 10 percent on
    their own transactions. Thus began a hatred for Venice among the Greek population which
    persists down to the present day.

    The most spectacular example of Venetian manipulation of the dumb giants of this world has gone
    down in history as the Fourth Crusade.

    In the sixteenth century, Venetian strategic doctrine was to play the Ottoman Turks against the
    Spanish and Austrian Hapsburgs, and then to correct any residual strategic imbalance by playing
    the Hapsburgs off in their turn against the French. Sometimes Venice attempted to play the
    Portuguese rival power off against the Dutch. Later this was expanded to include playing the
    Dutch against the English, and the English against the French.

    But the essence of their strategic doctrine was something more abstruse, something sometimes
    described as the "collapse of empires" scenario. Venice parasitized the decline of much larger
    states, a decline that Venice itself strove to organize, sometimes in a long and gradual descending
    curve, but sometimes in a quick bonanza of looting.

    Venice was repeatedly confronted with the problem posed by a triumphant enemy, at the height of
    his power, who would be perfectly capable of crushing the Serenissima in short order. This enemy
    had to be manipulated into self-destruction, not in any old way, but in the precise and specific way
    that served the Venetian interest. Does this sound impossible? What is astounding is how often it
    has succeeded. In fact, it is succeeding in a very real sense in the world today.

    So even though he is perfectly aware of the Greek resentment, he does not follow this with any consideration about what might have been New Byzantium, in other words he is not from this sphere, and, like most, does not detect it.

    The basis of his point is simple enough from descriptions of the Latin Empire 1204-1261:

    The Latin Empire was intended to replace the Byzantine Empire as the Western-recognized Roman Empire in the east, with a Catholic emperor enthroned in place of the Eastern Orthodox Roman emperors. The main objective of the Latin Empire was planned by Venice, which promoted the creation of this state for self-benefits.

    He criticizes the Club of Rome and the Society for European Culture which seeks to erode the sovereignty of nations, and adds:

    The Venetian problem remains with us today. Truly, the most urgent task of this generation of
    mankind is to definitively liquidate the horror that is Venice.

    Originally Venice took over parts of Italy, but then was nearly exterminated by the League of Cambrai in the early 1500s. He gives some ideas about how they absorbed a new country:

    Francisco Zorzi of Venice, the close friend and relative of Gasparo Contarini, who was sent by the
    Venetian oligarchy to England as the sex advisor to Henry VIII, was a Cabalist and Rosicrucian.
    In 1529, Zorzi came to London to deliver his opinion, and he remained at the court for the rest of
    his life, building up an important party of followers - the nucleus of the modern Venetian Party in
    England. In 1525, Zorzi had published the treatise "De Harmonia Mundi," which uses the
    cabalistic Sephiroth to expound a mystical, irrationalist outlook and to undercut the influence of
    Nicolaus of Cusa.

    During the 1670s, Charles II became the satellite and toady of Louis XIV
    of France, who paid him a subsidy which he used to circumvent Parliament. This enraged the
    Venetian Party. By now, the Venetians wanted to use England against the growing power of
    France, which had supplanted Spain at the top of their hit list.

    That his brother and successor James II had also become a Catholic had been known and was the
    center of political battle for some time. The Whig party, the main vehicle of Venetian rule, made
    its mark at this time as the group most devoted to a Protestant succession to the English throne.

    Milton was close to the Rota Club, a pro-Venetian salon dominated by James
    Harrington, author of the book Oceana and one of the most important Venetian ideologues in
    England. Harrington was the direct precursor of the great Whig aristocrats of the Venetian Party
    who were frequently in power after 1688.

    Within a few years after the Glorious Revolution
    there was a Bank of England and a national debt. When George I ascended the throne in 1714, he
    knew he was a Doge, the primus inter pares of an oligarchy.

    The regime that took shape in England after 1688 was the most perfect copy of the Venetian
    oligarchy that was ever produced.

    Why are the British liberal imperialists called the Venetian Party? Well, for one thing, they call
    themselves the Venetian Party. The future prime minister Benjamin Disraeli will write in his novel
    "Conningsby" that the Whig aristocrats of 1688 wanted "to establish in England a high
    aristocratic republic on the model of [Venice], making the kings into doges, and with a 'Venetian

    He also says:

    The modern Venetian Party in France was founded by Paolo Sarpi (1552-1623)...

    but since this was French, there were more machinations to make it pro-British:

    In order to create the myth of Newton as the great modern
    scientist, Conti was obliged to do what might well have been considered impossible at the time: to
    create a pro-British party in France. Conti succeeded, and stands as the founder of the
    Enlightenment, otherwise understood as the network of French Anglophiles. Those Frenchmen
    who were degraded enough to become Anglophiles would also be degraded enough to become
    Newtonians, and vice versa. The British had no network in Paris that could make this happen, but
    the Venetians did, thanks most recently to the work of such figures as Montaigne and Pierre

    The "myth" is along the lines that Newton just made mathematical laws about mechanics and so forth. That would have been supportive of atheism or non-existence of the soul. In actuality it is known that Newton was thoroughly involved with Alchemy and Rosicrucianism.

    Tarpley does not seem to grasp that Neo-Platonism from the Greek view was always outside of, beyond, and against both the Papal and Venetian regimes. Because of having more of an intra-European view, he therefor easily believes that all non-Catholics are therefor pro-British or Venetian. It might be better to say "sometimes temporarily allied to" until one discovers what is under the hood.

    Renaissance Neo-Platonism "is" Florentine, but, again, somewhat inseparable from Malta in a way he does not express. From an article on Alchemy in 1600 at the University of Florence:

    ...having been granted a charter in 1348 by Holy Roman Emperor Charles IV. The charter was a response to a personal appeal by Archbishop Piero Corsini.

    The Knights of Malta ran two churches in Florence and Neri can be connected to both.

    The order traces its roots to the crusades and has various associations with alchemy such as George Ripley.

    In Florence, any resources for schooling in alchemy by the knights would have been overseen by its most prominent local official; that official was Neri’s benefactor Don Antonio de’ Medici, Grand Prior of Pisa.

    After the Crusades, there was not a lot of opportunity to acquire anything from the east. Not culturally. There became various East India Companies, which, originally, may have been quite beneficial. If those had simply been good jobs and everything was carried out peacefully and justly, they should have been fine. In a lot of cases, we still find dominance, church missions, etc., and the idea of "making reports" with a lot of printed information. In the height of this is someone who baffles Europe.

    St. Germain is said twice to have entered the east, first to the court of the Shah of Persia, 1737-1742.

    That is almost meaningless, because Nader Shah only had a mobile military camp, such as entered by Hanway 1743 who:

    ...became a partner with Mr Dingley, a merchant in St Petersburg, and in this way was led to travel in Russia and Persia. Leaving St Petersburg on 10 September 1743, and passing south by Moscow, Tsaritsyn and Astrakhan, he embarked on the Caspian Sea on 22 November and arrived at Astrabad on 18 December. Here his goods were seized by Mohammed Hassan Beg, and it was only after great privations that he reached the camp of Nadir Shah, under whose protection he recovered most (85%) of his property.

    Nader Shah was well known to the European public of the time. In 1768, Christian VII of Denmark commissioned Sir William Jones to translate a Persian language biography of Nader Shah written by his Minister Mirza Mehdi Khan Astarabadi into French.

    "Persian Court" however may be relevant to the Safavid dynasty, which he temporarily interrupted. After the demise of Constantinople, Venice tried to get them to turn on the Ottomans starting in 1463. A little further:

    More came of Abbas's contacts with the English, although England had little interest in fighting against the Ottomans.


    The English at sea, represented by the English East India Company, also began to take an interest in Iran, and in 1622 four of its ships helped Abbas retake Hormuz from the Portuguese in the Capture of Ormuz (1622). This was the beginning of the East India Company's long-running interest in Iran.

    So, there were some tenuous European connections, but if St. Germain went to something resembling a standing court, it would have been:

    School of Isfahan which refers to alchemy and yoga.

    ...it was here that he began to understand the secrets of Nature.

    Isfahan was "court of the Shah of Persia" for quite some time, it does sound quite eclectic and Alexandrine, similar to Neo-Platonism and Theosophy, with additional sources. Nothing more explained who or what happened here. Evidently it was cathartic. But his full mastery came in India in 1755. He gives just enough hint to understand it:

    ...under Vice Admiral Watson. On my first journey I had only a very faint idea of the wonderful secret of which we are speaking; all the attempts that I made in Vienna, Paris and London, are worthless as experiments; the great work was interrupted at the time I have mentioned.

    Provided, again, he is not exactly part of the military campaign, the base in question turns out to be Fort St. George:

    Founded in 1639, it was the first English (later British) fortress in India. The construction of the fort provided the impetus for further settlements and trading activity, in what was originally an uninhabited land.

    The English settlement at Fort William, India sought assistance from the Presidency of Fort St. George at Madras, which sent Colonel Robert Clive and Admiral Charles Watson.

    There is not much reason to suggest St. Germain was interested in attacking Calcutta, compared to an obvious destination which had been standing for a long time. It is in the same area as the Theosophical Headquarters in India after 1882, Madras.

    Concerning his last few years after 1779:

    Writing of the knowledge and alluding to the early education of M. de St. Germain by the Duc de Medici, the Prince says:

    "This House (Medici), as is well known, was in possession of the highest knowledge, and it is not surprising that he should have drawn his earlier knowledge from them; but he claimed to have learned that of Nature by his own application and researches. He thoroughly understood herbs and plants, and had invented the medicines of which he constantly made use, and which prolonged his life and health..."

    "Sometimes he fell into a trance, and when he again recovered, he said he had passed the time while he lay unconscious in far-off lands; sometimes he disappeared for a considerable time, then suddenly re-appeared, and let it be understood that he had been in another world in communication with the dead. Moreover, he prided himself on being able to tame bees, and to make snakes listen to music."

    The author seems unaware that the ordinary Yogis of India have this power over snakes; and doubtless M. de St. Germain learned his knowledge in India.

    He has practically made a scale there, in potency of knowledge, first Renaissance, then Persian, then Indian. He was around Madras for a year or two at most.

    Was there someone from original Theosophy related to there, yes.

    Mahatma Narayan.

    He was living near Arcot, not far from Madras, when H.P.B. and Col. Olcott saw him about April 30, 1882.

    Arcot was captured by Clive 1751 in driving out the French.

    Narayan also wrote from the less-densely populated Thiruvalam. His letter to the magazine is almost identical to something HPB or the Mahatmas would write, he is talking about a single doctrine. Aside from that article, nothing is really known about this Mahatma. Without saying that he, too, must be well over a hundred years old, we might say that a local Ashram most likely would have a memory and explanation of dealing with a European in the 1700s. So there probably would be a continuity and connection from the source(s) for St. Germain as well as the original Theosophical Society.

    There is a 1930s reaction to HPB from the Tibetan Gendun Choepel:

    Singhalese monks’ minds are narrower than the eye of a needle but even so there are many of them who currently praise her. It is said that Dharmapala, who restored the sacred site of Drangsong Lhungpa [i.e. Sarnath] first developed faith in the Buddha through her. Her Dharma makes connections with the view of today’s ‘new reasoning’ – the perspective of contemporary science – and by explaining her religious teachings this way she has captured the attention of all Westerners. Specifically, more than just demonstrating miraculous, magical feats to foreigners who previously did not believe in super-human magical capacities, she brought such things as the transformation of matter through the power of magic together with the fundamental perspective of science.

    This is accurate for Sarnath (Deer Park):

    ...pilgrims at Sarnath can visit the Mahabodhi temple built by Anagarika Dharmapala, where relics of the Buddha are enshrined, next to a bodhi tree planted in 1893 from the oldest bodhi tree in Sri Lanka.

    Dharmapala (1864-1933):

    He went as far as Chicago where in 1893 he addressed the first parliament of religions, thus giving the first Buddhist teaching in the West. He was also responsible for the first contacts in centuries between Theravada and Mahayana Buddhists.

    It is not that unusual for Mahatma Koothoomi to be a Buddhist, because Alchi in Ladakh is the oldest continuously-functioning Buddhist institution. There are at least two Buddhist schools in Ladakh. Morya however personally says he is a Rajput, is a Buddhist, was never an Adwaitee. It is not impossible he was a Sikh convert. Buddhism was mostly evicted from Punjab. It is almost impossible to think of a Sikh Raja as somehow getting involved with Buddhism. However he was well-known to Indians in several places who said he was 125-300 years old.

    Both of them had been to Europe. HPB however has muddled the accounts of meeting Morya in London. She had a principle of not using the early parts of her life and personal and family matters in Theosophical debates. She said something to the effect that "everything from 1880 onwards is an open book", but at first, she was a runaway, there were no travel diaries, and what exists are a few re-tellings from decades later. She was in London multiple times; according to Wiki:

    She later claimed that she then headed back to Europe by ship, surviving a shipwreck near to the Cape of Good Hope before arriving in England in 1854, where she faced hostility as a Russian citizen due to the ongoing Crimean War...

    According to Theosophy:

    While she provided various conflicting accounts of how they met, locating it in both London and Ramsgate according to separate stories...

    However, she told Countess Constance Wachtmeister that “Ramsgate” was a blind, and that this took place in Hyde Park, London. She told A. P. Sinnett that this was "in the year of the first Nepal Embassy", that is, in 1850.

    It is almost certain that H.P.B. was in London in the Summer of 1854, because she says that she met her Master again "in the house of a stranger in England, where he had come in the company of a dethroned native prince". This was undoubtedly Prince Dhuleep Singh, Mahârâja of Lahore.

    Her first biographer Sinnett does not mention London 1851.

    What HPB says in Caves and Jungles of Hindostan:

    I met him in the house of a stranger in England, whither he came in the company of a certain dethroned Indian prince.

    This is a fictional, suggestive story. It at least has gotten to the normal Wiki. Duleep Singh, the last Maharaja of the Sikh Empire.

    Duleep Singh arrived in England in late 1854 and was introduced to the British court.

    In 1854, Madame Blavatsky, the founder of the Theosophical Society, met her Master Morya in England, who was in her words, "in the company of a dethroned native prince". This "native prince" according to general consent was Sir Duleep Singh.

    Again, maybe it should not be presented as so "factual" since it comes from a "suggestive description", but the picture at the time is very well-known. Is what she wrote in "Caves and Jungles" ever said to anyone else? Wouldn't anyone in England recognize Duleep Singh and start talking?

    He had recently surrendered the Koh-i-Noor:

    In 1850, an eleven-year-old Indian prince named Duleep Singh was ordered to complete
    a fraught diplomatic task: his mission was to present Queen Victoria with the famed
    Koh-i-Noor diamond in a contrived spectacle to show Indian submission to British rule.

    This went into the Great Exposition of 1851, which had a large Indian court. Also a good ruse for a meeting.

    Because Morya declined to meet the Queen, HPB says:

    The newspapermen of those days, when the influence of Byron was still great, discussed the "wild Rajput" with untiring pens, calling him "Raja-Misanthrope" and " Prince Jalma-Samson," and inventing fables about him all the time he stayed in England.

    Theoretically, he would stand out from the rest of the group.

    On Singh from the UK:

    Granted permission to travel, he arrived in London in 1854, staying at Claridges Hotel before being invited by Queen Victoria to stay with the Royal family at Osborne House on the Isle of Wight.

    or from old photos:

    He was later to settle in England, to which he paid his first visit in April 1854. He met Queen Victoria at Buckingham Palace in July of the same year and later stayed with the Royal Family at Osborne House from 21 to 24 August.

    Shown in 1854 Isle of Wight.

    From a Sikh source:

    On 19 April 1854, the Maharaja and his party sailed for England where they reached in May 1854. In England Maharaja Duleep Singh lived in the first instance with the Login family and was presented to Queen Victoria who took very favourably to him.

    Login had the kid, the diamond, and the Punjab treasury.

    Lena Login 1890 on them both.

    All she says is the Punjabi retainers never disembarked, except for the convert Nehemiah Goreh. Duleep Singh does not appear to have any "group", and, what is more, this phase of his life was about conversion to Christianity, which is the kind of people he had around him.

    1854 seems unlikely to represent the correct situation. HPB said to Charles Johnston:

    I met him first when I was twenty,—in 1851...

    From Countess Constance Wachtmeister:

    In London, in 1851, she was one day out walking when, to her astonishment, she saw a tall Hindu in the street with some Indian princes.

    The next day she went into Hyde Park for a stroll, that she might be alone and free to think over her extraordinary adventure. Looking up, she saw the same form approaching her, and then her Master told her that he had come to London with the Indian princes on an important mission...

    It is possible that Countess Wachtmeister confused the date with H. P. Blavatsky’s previous visit with her father to London in the '40s. Mme. Blavatsky wrote to Mr. Sinnett: "I was in London and France with Father in '44 not 1851." Though in this letter she explains that she does not remember well what happened in years past, she told Mr. Sinnett how she met the Master:

    I saw Master in my visions ever since my childhood. In the year of the first Nepaul Embassy (when?) saw and recognised him. Saw him twice. Once he came out of the crowd, then He ordered me to meet Him in Hyde Park. I cannot, I must not speak of this. I would not publish it for the world.

    In European counting, when she was twenty, would probably have been 1850.

    Starting in May, 1851, Hyde Park was full of the Great Exhibition. You could not have been alone. The scene described more closely resembles the previous year with the Nepal delegation:

    Jaṅga Bahādura Rāṇā, during
    his trip to London and Paris (15 January 1850 until 29 January 1851), came to esteem printed
    books with an almost magical sense as the expression of Western superiority.

    First Nepalese Mission is well-documented, taking place on a steamer with a capacity of 1,200 and the King having an entourage of twenty-five.

    Translated by Whelpton 1983, there is an Indian diaspora:

    ...in Marseilles, when he met two women who had been born in the Panjab and could hold a conversation with him without the aid of a British interpreter, he assured them that much as he admired the English he found their severe manner less to his liking than French warmth...

    The two royal individuals are connected by Singh's Mother:

    In 1843, Maharani Jind Kaur, the youngest wife of King Ranjit Singh, became the regent of the Sikh Empire for king Duleep Singh was still an infant. Punjab went to war with the British Raj under her leadership in 1845. She requested military help from Kathmandu. Unfortunately, King Rajendra Bikram decided not to support the Anglo-Sikh War which turned out to be the biggest mistake of his life.

    Duleep Singh ended up reclaiming his Sikh heritage and turned against the British establishment. He tried to persuade the Tsars of Russia to invade British India. The communication was discovered because the British had spies follow his every move. The last King of Punjab lived his final years in a Paris hotel room desperately seeking forgiveness of Queen Victoria of England. He died in Paris in 1893.

    As for Jang Bahadur taking her in:

    ...he made arrangements for the Khalsa army to reside in cleared forests near the town of Nepalgunj where their descendants can be found living even today in villages called Sikhanpura, Jamunaha and Bankatwa.

    End of the Sikh Empire:

    Despite going through Bahadur's related press articles, I do not notice anyone unusually tall or roguish behavior. The twelve to fifteen princes attracted public attention around Richmond Terrace, Covent Garden, quite close to 10 Downing Street.

    Kingsland gives the meeting as:

    July 1851

    but also says in 1850:

    she quitted Paris precipitately and went to London...

    In January 1851 she returned to Paris, leaving again in July in order to go to Canada, to which place she was attracted by the idea that the Red Indians could supply her with some of the occult knowledge for which she was seeking. She appears to have passed through London...

    "Appears to" because of the date he used. HPB's letter using "Ramsgate" says:

    12 Août, 1851

    That is a code for her own birthday in the Russian calendar (July 31). She has already admitted it was a false location, which makes the timing suspect.

    But instead of using dates, when referring to events as she said to Sinnett, Nepal delegation reached London:

    26 May 1850.


    29 July

    The group as a whole was slightly segregated:

    ...their refusal to eat cooked food of any kind at the functions they were invited to. They used to cook and eat with great care as they could lose their caste by intermixing with the foreigners.

    Sinnett had not heard of an 1851 meeting. In Letters to Sinnett at that time:

    This latter year I was alone and lived in Cecil St. in furnished rooms at one time, then at Mivart’s Hotel...

    It happens in 1854 to become Claridge's Hotel where Duleep Singh does in fact stay, in 1854. It is strangely true she was "in the house".

    From available materials, it appears she was in Constantinople in 1850, made it to Paris, and had a distasteful encounter which made her continue to London. This contradicts the idea that she left Constantinople for anything significant through Egypt, which is another part of the story.

    In Constantinople, she met a family friend, and also a famous singer, who was in the process of being stabbed. Research on Metrovitch does not clarify what happened in Constantinople in 1850.

    Looking at Rawson leads to conflicting dates for her time in Egypt. It appears to negativize part of it:

    Rawson’s claim that he and Blavatsky were in the Near East in 1851 and 1852 before arriving in New York in 1853 via Paris. This is very unlikely if for no other reason than the fact that Rawson was imprisoned for theft from September 15, 1851 to June 22, 1852.

    To Sinnett on Metrovitch, she calls him:

    ...a revolutionist of the worst kind, a fanatical rebel. He hated the priests, fought in all the rebellions, and escaped hanging by the Austrians, only because — well, it’s something I need not be talking about...Then comes Venice, Florence, Mentana. The Garibaldis (the sons) are alone to know the whole truth; and a few more Garibaldians with them. What I did, you know partially; you do not know all. My relatives do, my sister does not, and therefore and very luckily Solovioff does not.

    Dallas Tenbroek truncates some things and gives the chronology:

    1849 In the company of an old family friend [Countess Kisselev], HPB travels in Greece, Turkey and Egypt BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH) Vol. I xxxviii

    1850 In London with her father, HPB meets the first time the Master of my dreams" Master Morya, who at that time was traveling in the suite of the Prime Minister of Nepal, visiting as ambassador to England. HPB SPEAKS Vol. I 20, FIVE YRS OF THY. p. 305, GLOS 217, C W B IX p. 20, Kingsland: THE REAL HPB. p. 40-41

    1850 Meeting in Hyde Park, they conversed for several hours. He gives her a preview of her future mission and work. HPB TO APS p. 150, PATH IX p. 298, HPB SPEAKS II p. 20, B C W I p. xxxix, Irish Theosophist. Vol. 2, p. 128

    Katinka Hesselink is similar but cannot really improve on it. As we see, the above ignores Metrovitch and Rawson. It suggests she left Constantinople with the Countess quickly enough to make a tour of a few places, and could have reasonably reached England by mid-1850.

    In later age, Countess Sofia Kiselyova was well-known at Monte Carlo.

    She has taken world famous events like the surrender of the Sikhs and cloaked it in "a certain dethroned prince". The Great Exhibition as if never happened. But then she adds newspaper details which sound sensible but do not emerge from clippings of the time. That is not to say they could not be from elsewhere, it is just unrecognizable.

    Some Sikhs definitely do have something to do with Nepal around 1850. That would expose them to Buddhism. That particular context is sensible.

    Moreover, Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism, made a temple in Nepal. It has Nepali followers, not Punjabi transplants.

    Before the Anglo-Nepalese War 1814-1816 concerning the Gorkhas:

    Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the ruler of the Sikh state in Punjab, intervened and had driven the Nepalese army east of the Sutlej River by 1809.

    But we were told in consequence:

    Two decades after Sugauli treaty, Nepal made a secret alliance with Punjab (an independent kingdom of that time) to oppose the British.

    Both Nepal and Punjab were preparing for war with the British Raj, but King Ranjit Singh of Punjab died mysteriously in 1839 after which the Sikh Kingdom started to disintegrate.

    Maharani Jind Kaur tried to recover this, but it did not work out. Too many traitors.

    The Sikhs and Nepalese are practically opposite poles in their status at this point.

    Also as a report of a tall figure, Olcott met Morya multiple times at Bombay. He signed a letter to Sinnett:

    M. "Chohan Rimbochey"

    which is an old attempt at spelling Tibetan, which would be a Buddhist title.

    These Mahatmas did not continue with the public face of the Theosophical Society. Done by 1900. The ULT is a preservation of this, only.

    Olcott confirms Morya's impressive height. Physically, there is also such a thing as Rajputs of Nepal for most of its history, and:

    The Baleshwar Inscription of King Krachalla (or Krachalla Deva) of Khas Malla Kingdom at capital Dullu self proclaimed that he belonged to a Buddhist Jina family of hill Rajput background. Sinja Valley was the ancient capital city and powerful town of the Khas Mallas between 12th and 14th century and the centre of origin of Nepali (Khas) language.

    He also used the expression:

    It's voice is that of the war sankh of my Rajput ancestors...

    Neither Sikhism nor a geographical location are ever mentioned for him. However, the Nepali language itself comes from Rajput Buddhists. It is originally called Khas. Nepal is Kathmandu. The Gorkhas or Khas took it over, and used the name for the state and language, making Khas into a high caste.

    Anagarika Dharmapala's Theravada Mahabodhi movement was seen unfavorably in Nepal as nationalistic and socio-revolutionary. Cycling its history, Ceylon or Sri Lanka also has everything to do with the development of Mahayana Buddhism. If Mahabodhi was truly "nationalistic" they would have to see this.

    Notice it tried to present Theravada to Mahayana, but this is what already had taken place in the seventh century. It took Olcott to raise Ceylonese Buddhism to a functional assembly. Nepalese Mahayana had been the same the whole time.

    Another important motivation in Theosophy was criticizing arbitrary translations of Asiatic texts, i. e., "orientalism". The first English translation from Sanskrit was Bhagavad Gita in the 1700s. Buddhism was hardly even distinguished as a subject. And so the Mahatmas railed on Max Muller and most pioneers in this field.

    In this case, there turns out to be something much simpler and clearer which could have helped everyone a whole lot.

    The first British Resident in Nepal 1833 was Brian Hodgson who:

    ...wrongly assumed that the Sanskrit texts were older than those in Pali. He however became an expert on Hinayana philosophy.

    Hodgson was partially interested in Buddhism, in fact he already understands the more basic Hinayana which is similar to Theravada because the information remained available. From what I have seen, Buddhism in Nepal is all Sanskrit. It has already penetrated to the heart of the onion skins or nested dolls of all these other social and cultural misunderstandings. If one looks in Tibet, China, etc., one gets derivative offshoots.

    Hodgson was into dry information, he did similar projects for lumber, bird watching, and just about anything. But in terms of Nepalese culture, he was forced to contend with Sanskrit Buddhism. Fortunately, he was not just copying material, but gained the assistance of:

    Pandit Amritananda Sakya

    whose first interview is quoted there.

    Hodgson received something like a blowtorch, compared to which, Buddhism in Theosophy is an unlit match.

    By around 1840, he had something which can barely be improved upon.

    He did not start a movement, although he did send the Lotus Sutra to Eugene Bournouf. But if the academic circles had simply taken Hodgson as a seed and worked from there, then by 1875 the TS would have been superfluous. It was still in the business of reviving Theravada Buddhism in Ceylon. Tibetan and Chinese languages got a lot of attention. Nepal was not "opened" for western cultural exchange until 1995. So what was simple for Hodgson remained buried.

    He had this job because the 1816 treaty made Nepal a semi-independent Protectorate until 1923, over the period of an uprising the Mahatmas said they were against:

    The friendship between the two countries reached its pinnacle during the reign of Jang Bahadur Rana. During the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857, Nepal also involved itself in support of the East India Company.

    Nepalese culture was not completely destroyed by the Mughals or rotted away by the British. After the failed Sikh wars, the Mahatmas thought the Sepoys would be a bad idea even if they won the battle. They did not want to attract rival colonists and invaders by weakening the British.

    What HPB responded to was Emil Schlagentweit's 1863 Buddhism in Tibet which is online. It is his assessment of a pile of manuscripts collected by his brothers in the 1850s. The Tibetan manuscripts are mostly their version of something from Sanskrit. Hodgson was working from a library and the guidance of a priest. Nothing was changed or moved around.

    Appendix B in Hodgson's Essays starting at page 115 of the pdf is a type of numerological system similar to Kabbalism.

    A scan of it into text is copy-able, although it messes up a lot of the letters.

    I cannot use HPB's terminology like "true Oriental Kabala" or "Chaldean Book of Numbers", etc., but this is the practical aspect or actually is a yoga usually translated to English as "Gnosis". Pythagoras's teaching of Five is similar here. This is just a primer for a very extensive system. It is not like nineteenth-century Egyptian Rites and the like, most of which are arbitrary declarations about fragments. Western ceremonial magic is similar, but different. Hodgson is talking about something that once covered the Indian sub-continent.

    It was published in 1874 from existing material, some of which had appeared in magazines. So you would have had to have been in a selective audience to even see it.

    —The authority for these details is the Dharma Samgraha, or catalogue raisonne of the terminology of the Bauddha system of philosophy and religion.

    Dharma Samgraha was published by Muller's Japanese student Kenjiu Kasawara in 1885. Or, they transcribed his notes after he passed away at an early age. It is a list of lists. Most of them are valid and applicable in Buddhism.

    Although seen with Gelugs, there could still be a possibility the Mahatmas knew pre-Gelug practices. One time Koothoomi was called a "tantrika" and took it as a compliment. The occasional white dress of Morya may have been different things, but it also matches the Tibetan healer called Ngakpa:

    Traditionally, many Nyingma ngakpas wear uncut hair and white robes and these are sometimes called "the white-robed and uncut-hair group" (Wylie: gos dkar lcang lo'i sde).

    In Bhutan, and some other parts of the Himalayas, the term gomchen is the term most often used to refer to this type of Vajrayana priest.

    In Tibet, the Gelug order took over a ninth-century tradition usually now called the Nechung Oracle.

    Being Tibetan, we can find the original name with its set of Art:

    Nechung Chogyong

    with a more standardized spelling:

    The dharmapalas are 'protectors of the law' and in Tibetan are called chos kyong.

    In nineteenth-century approximations, chos kyong became Chohan. In that sense, Tibet has multiple Chohans, and the Great Chohan would mean Nechung Oracle.

    I am far from the first to find the similarity; Pranic Healing accepts chos kyong as "Chohan".

    The Chohan has a ceremony a few times a year, to which it is possible that Koothoomi could participate, and spend most of the rest of the time living, as he said, in caves.

    Chances are they were intimately familiar with pilgrimage routes.

    Even the Dharma Samgraha shows what we will find to be standard for the larger contents of Nepalese texts:

    ...unsupported by the Cambridge MS. and by the Chinese Version.

    The DS and Appendix B are a lot more elegant and powerful than such articles may seem, of course, they require explanations. One thing that is very unusual for Buddhism is that Hodgson reports a system of Nine, which is very suggestive of Hindu Durga. This one happens to have planetary representatives. This turns out to be the way to distinguish Indian Astrology from Western. It starts with the Seven Sacred Planets and adds the Nodes of the Moon for a total of nine.

    Some of the interior portions of both texts are the same.

    On the Newar Buddhism page:

    It is the oldest known sect of the Vajrayana tradition outdating the Tibetan school of Vajrayana by more than 600 years.

    Yet from the smattering of sources, the first solid one looks like Gellner 1992. This book's header says that the publication of comprehensive material goes Hodgson...Gellner.

    Hodgson is however the source for Svabhavat which is in The Secret Doctrine and it is in The Mahatma Letters. It is on this where the Mahatmas suggest the superiority of "Sanskrit Buddhism". In fact, it is among the most stringent of the quotes:

    Study the laws and doctrines of the Nepaulese Swabhavikas, the principal Buddhist philosophical school in India, and you will find them the most learned as the most scientifically logical wranglers in the world. Their plastic, invisible, eternal, omnipresent and unconscious Swabhavat is Force or Motion ever generating its electricity which is life.

    Yes: there is a force as limitless as thought, as potent as boundless will, as subtile as the essence of life so inconceivably awful in its rending force as to convulse the universe to its centre would it but be used as a lever, but this Force is not God, since there are men who have learned the secret of subjecting it to their will when necessary.

    This was researched originally by David Reigle, who in the 1970s started trying to take seriously some of the technical terms that had been used by HPB that were scoffed at or dismissed by scholars. Prajnaquest hosts a lot of this. A lot of the material is substantiated. Did Sinnett turn around and uplift Nepali Buddhism? No. But that is a pretty direct suggestion about something which is true.

    One of the main occult drivers of Theosophy is in Hodgson's book.

    The fact that Gelugpas deny that anything in the universe has any svabhāva has in the last few decades become well-known in the world outside of Tibet.

    HPB says:

    “The Svâbhâvikas, or philosophers of the oldest school of Buddhism (which still exists in Nepaul), speculate only upon the active condition of this ‘Essence,’ which they call Svabhâvât, and deem it foolish to theorize upon the abstract and ‘unknowable’ power in its passive condition.” It is the inherent nature (svabhāva) of this essence (the one element, dhātu) to periodically outbreathe, and this produces what we perceive as the manifestation of the world.

    It is not really "a school" or any particular kind of person, but, one of four primary views or expressions. What is more telling is how Reigle connects it into Indian Buddhism. Most of this appears correct.

    Well, if there was any more Theosophy it would not have been any of the intervening variants, it would have been something coming after 1975, which matches this vindication of at least some of the original material.

    That is to say as a global knowledge base, Newar Buddhism has appeared as:

    1875...a few notes in obscure places

    1975...beginning to examine the notes and see where they go

    Conversely, Tibet appeared in older times as a fountain of ancient wisdom, which is a relatively recent phenomenon, with additional linguistic loss.

    Nepal is the "source", so to speak, by having most of the original Sanskrit.

    That only reflects on the India of the first Neo-Platonic era, which was well-known for an excellent university system, drawing students from China, Arabia, Rome, and Greece. In Theosophy of course there is a heavy case that original Plato was a neo-Orpheus and Hermes which in their turn were drawn from India. And perhaps the second thing about him is also the story of Atlantis.

    Nepal and Bhutan remained nominally independent throughout the British period, though both eventually became British protectorates.

    Both of them retained monarchies.

    Tibetan anecdotes say that people such as Mahatmas or Ngakpas used to be seen, but they vanished during the early 1900s. The Oracle was clear enough that Tibet had forewarning of trouble with China. That did not seem to make any difference.

    The Mahatmas also turned against Dayanand Sarasvati, who had a lot to do with forming the Arya Samaj which is nationalistic, and still has some members who believe in a Greater India or reconquista of whatever may have been a part of it ever.

    It seems to me that their whole project vanished; in the whole literature, I think there were eighty-four accepted disciples, out of whom, four were considered successful, none of those being European. The "succession" did not really go to Annie Besant and the named Theosophical Society, but, to the teenage children of Nobin Bannerjee who were sent to a Maitreya temple in China.

    Hodgson's notes on Swabhava are rather lengthy. However as soon as you start looking at it, you can tell that Koothoomi transcribed this to A. P. Sinnett. Hodgson says that the "schools" are really Amritananda's Sastra, that is, his personal way of categorizing views he had encountered. It is partly interesting that this rather plain English seems to have become an elusive quest through The Secret Doctrine, but, Hodgson himself was alert enough to distance it from the dominant Gelug view and associate it with Neo-Platonism:

    ...others of them have insisted that it is eternal repose, and not eternal annihilation § (Sunyata)

    § This interpretation of the Swabhavika Sunyata is not the general one, though the
    opponents of Buddhism have attempted to make it so ; for the prevalent sense of the
    word among the Buddhas, see on. Plotinus contended that the most perfect worship
    of the Deity consisted in a certain mysterious Self-annihilation or total extinction of
    all our faculties. See M. Laurien's account of Newton's discoveries p. 387. This
    explains the Tathagata doctrine of Dhyana, and partially that of Sunyata also.

    I would extend it to add the Hesychasm of Orthodoxy, which has no known counterpart in the West.

    HPB was a little more precise by saying "Yogacara" for Hodgson's "interpretation" of Sunyata. Otherwise, he is correct that this is an important doctrinal position, and, the passages appear practically ghost-written into Theosophy. Moreover, he gives what we might call the Sanskrit Kabala in the same book. This is not a reconstituted fragment, but, an uninterrupted system from medieval India.

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
    Could you, for further clarity, elaborate on the similarity or difference of "Corporations" (corporation/corporate ownership) and “State ownership" (collective ownership)?

    This reminds me, I can't remember the name, it was a veterinarian from Denver who in 1996 did a book and tour on the issue of Emergency Banking Powers not having been stopped in 1976, which is true, except they were the following year.

    I sense a certain zone of this nature.

    Sometimes my questions are only indirectly answered about these subjects. There are very limited ways in which I have encountered this school of thought. Most of these ideas seem to be on a limited handful of sites like Family Guardian. It has subjects like:


    Anna Von Reitz Forms and Process (OFFSITE LINK)
    Article 928
    Getting help
    One Page Declaration

    And seems to be mostly based on King James:

    "We ought to obey God rather than men."

    [Acts 5:29,Bible]

    Having as some of its first Primary Sources non-binding documents such as:

    The Spirit of Laws-the basis for our modern republican government
    Quotes from Thomas Jefferson on Politics and Government
    Articles of Confederation
    Declaration of Independence

    It has a significant section dedicated to:

    Christian Heritage

    God and our State's Constitutions
    Founding Fathers Quotes: Was the United States Founded as a Christian Nation?
    Was America Founded as a Christian Nation?-Antishyster News Magazine

    So, we can be pretty sure it is a religious interpretation of the founding of the United States. Most of them were Deists, which is Confucian. We can agree not to forbid or compel any particular liturgy.

    Of course, by far the most crucial argument here offered me many malwares when I clicked this link:

    Why you are a "national", "state national", and Constitutional but not Statutory Citizen-THE most important document on this website, by far

    Ok, well, if you won't play nice, maybe this similar page is second--the extensive coverage of Illegally Deceived:

    The U.S. Supreme Court identified where all the current confusion over citizenship comes from. Here is their explanation:


    [Rundle v. Delaware & Raritan Canal Company, 55 U.S. 80, 99 (1852) from dissenting opinion by Justice Daniel]

    It's not a Supreme Court Ruling, it is an opinion.

    It's not a deception, it automatically happens, always has.

    This is a big layout, it is about as complex as Avalon, but sloppier. There are no leaders, or there isn't quite a site theme or thesis that distinguishes what is going on here. There are conspicuous absences, like "Heritage" does not mention the religion of Jerusalem, and there isn't quite anything on the Revolution.

    If we scroll back up, as is known, what Thomas Jefferson means by "consent of the governed" is the Revolutionary Oath.

    What this means is that all became citizens, which is freely granted to one's descendants. So, the majority of what is being discussed in these arguments is backwards.

    It is true in France, you are automatically not a citizen.

    It is true that there is such a thing as a Non-citizen National, as from an attorney, Zhang & Assoc.:

    Non-citizen nationals are also protected by the United States Bill of Rights on top of the laws of their home government.

    Concerning taxation, non-citizen nationals are exempt from paying a federal income tax or taxes to the federal government on wealth accrued within the territory. Territories, commonwealths, and possessions may, however, implement taxation plans which mirror those of the United States. They also receive economic assistance through some, but not all, national benefit programs or services such as Social Security.

    Maybe they get Social Security? What? Well, according to the State Department:

    Section 341 of the Immigration and Nationality Act:

    (b) A person who claims to be a national, but not a citizen, of the United States may apply to the Secretary of State for a certificate of non-citizen national status. Upon - (1) proof to the satisfaction of the Secretary of State that the applicant is a national, but not a citizen, of the United States...

    The other conspicuous absence is any people from all history who revoked consent from the Federal government. In fact, they only first opened the door as a way to hopefully say sayonara to the Japanese in the Renunciation Act of 1944:

    Prior to the law's passage, it was not possible to lose U.S. citizenship while in U.S. territory except by conviction for treason; the Renunciation Act allowed people physically present in the U.S. to renounce citizenship when the country was in a state of war by making an application to the Attorney General. The intention of the 1944 Act was to encourage Japanese American internees to renounce citizenship so that they could be deported to Japan.

    Oh. It was just because of war. Ask during times of peace about Relinquishment:

    "Nationality" and "citizenship" are distinct under U.S. law: all people with U.S. citizenship also have U.S. nationality, but American Samoans and some residents of the Northern Mariana Islands have U.S. nationality without citizenship. Both citizens and non-citizen nationals may undertake the process of relinquishment of United States nationality. A citizen who undertakes that process gives up both citizenship and nationality. It is not possible to relinquish U.S. citizenship while retaining U.S. nationality.

    This was the decision, although it was a slightly different issue in the Matter of Davis 1978:

    At the exclusion hearing-below, Davis related how he declared a
    "world government" on September 4, 1953, while in Maine, "after having received a mandate of upwards of 675,000 individuals from all over
    the world who registered at the international registry [of] world citizens
    in Paris. The world government came about five years after my renunciation and was mandated by a registration of 750,000 people who declared themselves as world citizens from all over the world, more than
    100 countries at the international registry of world citizens in Paris,
    which I also founded." (Tr. at p. 37)
    Davis has frequently travelled across international borders with a
    passport issued by his "world government," which he calls the World
    Service Authority. This 'organization is based in Basel, Switzerland.
    Davis' passport lists his occupation as "world coordinator." His previous
    occupation was that of an actor.

    He was making oaths, changing citizenships, and so forth, which is not what the "American National" is trying to do.

    The legal issue is because "National" only has significance internationally, and, what it means internally is up to the state.

    Everything here is talking about an overt act in an official capacity.

    The "Remedies" suggested by the website are adjustments to paperwork. Re-filing. The status is so minor that the State Department would not issue a certificate process, and just makes an annotation on a passport.

    I suppose if the subject were narrowed down to "Tax Loopholes under the Nationality Acts", it might be mostly true.

    But, it's not, it is about Satan in the Form of Deceit. Except it is exactly backwards to how the country of America was started, and applied to no one. I bet no one ever had the idea until World Government guy. And yes, an American can attempt to avail themself of something that was intended to remove the Japanese. I don't think that the tax resistance necessarily "terminates" the citizenship, it just stops using it.

    What gets me is that it is true that the Revolution was certainly not fought for the express purpose of Federal citizenship. That is because it was meaningless. What was established was State citizenship. That actually is a difference because then you have the issues of how to Unite, or why the Articles were unsatisfactory and what happened that has usually seemed to benefit New York.

    Perhaps the main idea is expressed here:

    All just rights spring from responsibilities/obligations under the laws of a higher power. If that higher power is God, you can be truly and objectively free. If it is government, you are guaranteed to be a slave because they can lawfully set the cost of their property as high as they want as a Merchant under the U.C.C.

    There are NO constitutional limits on the price government can charge for their monopoly services or property. Those who want no responsibilities can have no real/PRIVATE rights, but only privileges dispensed to wards of the state which are disguised to LOOK like unalienable rights. Obligations and rights are two sides of the same coin, just like self-ownership and personal responsibility. For the biblical version of this paragraph, read 1 Sam. 8:10-22. For the reason God answered Samuel by telling him to allow the people to have a king, read Deut. 28:43-51, which is God’s curse upon those who allow a king above them.

    Usually, the thing that wants to move government out of the way is private capital.

    I tend towards the view that a King or a Socialist Politbureau is rather there to protect me from private capital. I would care less who actually does it as long as it was being done.

    Quite some time ago I started calling Anna von Reitz the "lady without a case" which appears similarly here.

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    We have shown something about the formation of the Greco-Russian area that is being recovered from Ukraine. Here is something else that is related.

    This has to do with "Blavatsky" is meaningless as a name--but it is very informative to ask, who was the family of Helena von Hahn.

    Anyone's first guess would be that means it must be her mother who was Russian.

    According to Charles Johnston:

    Through her grandmother, Princess Dolgoruki, Madame Blavatsky was descended from Prince Yuri Dolgoruki, that is, Yuri the Long-armed, who founded the city of Moscow in the year 1147, and was its first Tsar.

    Madame Blavatsky’s grandmother, Princess Dolgoruki, was the last descendant of the elder line.

    Her Tree shows this to be true, with the other possibly surviving branch being the Wittes.

    "Moscow" is probably the wrong expression; it means the fort of the Kremlin. Currently in Moscow:

    Like most statues of Yuri Dolgoruky, this statue depicts him holding out his arm, as Dolgoruky means the Long-Armed, a sobriquet he earned due to his decision to rule Kiev from afar.

    The large statue looks even more impressive as it does not stand on a pedestal but at ground level, allowing people to walk right up to it.

    For Yuri, Grand Prince of Kiev:

    In 1121 Yuri quarreled with the boyars of Rostov and moved the capital of his lands from that city to Suzdal. As the area was sparsely populated, Yuri founded many fortresses there.

    Noted for successfully curbing the privileges of the landowning boyar class in Rostov-Suzdal and his ambitious building programme, Yuri transformed this principality into the independent power that would evolve into early modern Muscovy.

    His patron saint, Saint George appears on the coat of arms of Moscow slaying a dragon.

    (George and Theodore are both dragon slayers.)

    As is told:

    Maternally, H. P. Blavatsky’s lineage goes back through Prince Michael of Chernigov to Rurik, founder of the Russian state at Novgorod.

    There is one part. We understand about Kievan Rus and now we see a personal name with a certain meaning in relation to it. Ruled from afar.

    Then moving forward about six hundred years, according to Witte:

    Sergei Witte wrote that his grandfather, P.V. Dolgorukov, during his daughter’s marriage had blessed his daughter and new son-in-law with an ancient cross which, according to family legend, belonged to the Grand Prince of Kiev, St. Michael of Chernigov. Later, this cross passed into the hands of Helena Pavlovna and further to Sergei Witte.

    Michael is the story of how Europe failed to unite against the Mongols.

    From her childhood:

    Great-grandfather of Helena Blavatsky, Prince Pavel Vasilyevich Dolgorukov (1755-1837), Major General of the time of Catherine II, had the highest military award - the Order of St. George and was a friend and colleague of Kutuzov.

    His wife was Henrietta Adolfovna de Bandre du Plessis (died 1812), a daughter of a military officer (of French [Huguenot] descent) who had command of an army corps during the Crimea campaign and, according to A.M. Fadeyev, was a favorite of Suvorov.

    The man with St. Michael's cross also had a staggering collection of Alchemical and other magic and occult books. He had the map from St. Germain. If this is from the Rosicrucianism of Wurttemberg, it goes back to Florence, to Malta. The largest number of Maltese Knights are also soon to enter Russia. It is believed HPB studied his library a few years after he had passed away, in her teens. There is no indication she ever talked to him. This all came from an unusual transmission.

    On p. 2 it appears he was involved in the system of Nikolai Novikov, a Rosicrucian system of nine degrees with chiefs in different countries that sound like HPB's destinations. This is an important article by a different Johnston. The emphasis is on the Dolgoruki library. She had exhausted Paracelsus, Agrippa, etc., by the time she was fifteen. Her head was soaked in untold amounts of Rosicrucian literature. Of course it inspired her. She also met the Kalmyck Buddhists. She was familiar to these, respectful towards Orthodoxy, and rabidly anti-Catholic as a child. This mold is already set--not surprising.

    This will become rather strange, but, Theosophical Path vol. 2 contains a childrens' story about HPB. It introduces her as Helena Hahn, and presumes the children know who both Czar Peter the Great and Madame Blavatsky are. Hahn is not a big secret, her father was from Mecklenburg, Germany. This story, which portrays her growing up as a little princess, then informs us that she was born of the noble blood of Russia, Germany, and France. It tells us that her great-grandfather married a Countess du Plessy, a French Huguenot.

    As of 2022 we can find an entry for Henrietta du Plessis:

    Birthdate: between 1724 and 1784
    Death: 1812 (27-88)
    Immediate Family:
    Daughter of Adolphe-François Marquis de Bandré du Plessis and Helene Christine (Helene Ivanovna) de Bandre du Plessis
    Wife of Павел Васильевич князь Долгоруков
    Mother of Elena Pavlovna Fadeeva and Анастасия Павловна Сушкова

    We can find out who her father was because of a famous portrait by Unknown:

    In his early youth, he served in the Royal Saxon Army, fought in The Seven Years’ War from 1756 to 1763 on the territory of Pomerania, and after the end of the war, he was invited by Catherine II to join the Imperial Russian Army as Captain.

    The article has a detailed bio, and then on the back of the painting, there is an inscription:

    General Lieutenant Adolphe-Francois de Bandre du Plessis was born in 1729, died on June 15, 1793. Was married to Elena Ivanovna Brazeman von Nettig. They had one daughter, Henrietta Adolfovna, who was married to Prince Pavel/ Vasilievich Dolgorukiy, mayor general, who were the parents of Elena Pavlovna / Fadyeva. Bandre du Plessis is an ancient French surname with the title of marquise; a branch called Marné du Plessis, still exists in France. Adolphe-Francois started serving in the Russian armed forces at the invitation of the Catherine the Great,/ empress of Russia, and not only fought in all the wars of that time but also carried out diplomatic missions.

    Then the little princess childrens' story informs us the Hahns had a French maid, name not given. However, her story is that during or after the revolution, she was paraded on the streets of Paris as the Goddess of Liberty (likely the 1830 revolution here). Young Helena Hahn immediately declares, "I want to be a Goddess of Liberty!" This comes across as very profound and influential both for HPB and to be inspirational towards the audience.

    Huguenot affiliation was once with House Bourbon which took power in 1589, and, in the mid-1700s, is said to have lacked a national bank and trapped itself in short-term loans. In most accounts, war debts over religion and England are held to be an insurmountable pressure towards the revolution. Henry IV repented to Catholicism and there were not any further Huguenot Bourbon Protestant kings.

    Even from the earliest "resistance" times, Huguenots are understood to be either "of the church", against Latin and the papacy, or "of the state", to rebel against Catholic authorities.

    The transition removing the Jesuits from France started with a Jansenist plot that replaced the judiciary, which is the power that was used to shut them down. Jansenists believed that Jesuit science was a waste of time compared to the only worthwhile pursuit, salvation. It is not a very good name as Jansen wished it to remain obedient to the church, and it is more like his school of Augustine of Hippo. Cardinal Richelieu (Armand du Plessis) arrested the Jansenist leader Duvergier in 1638. The Jesuits started attacking them around 1644 after prohibiting the Augustinian book. Works including the letters of Pascal replied by denouncing the Jesuits. Around 1654, Jansenists were protected by Roger du Plessis, duke of Liancourt. In Richelieu's time, Catholic Hapsburg Spain is reported to be funding Protestant French Huguenot rebels.

    Because that name has numerous branches, we are lucky to have that portrait.

    Her great-grandfather was apparently taking the Strict Observance system. But it was Rosicrucian Masonry. This is a thing. Who brought it?

    Novikov was a writer and philanthropist most representative of his country's Enlightenment. Frequently considered to be the first Russian journalist, he aimed at advancing the cultural and educational level of the Russian public.

    Novikov belonged to the first generation of Russians that benefited from the creation of Moscow University in 1755. He took an active part in the Legislative Assembly of 1767, which sought to produce a new code of laws. Inspired by this kind of freethinking activity, he took over editing the Moscow Gazette and launched satirical journals...

    Together with Johann Georg Schwarz, Ivan Lopukhin, and Semyon Gamaleya he brought martinism and rosicrucianism to Russia.

    When the French Revolution started, Catherine changed her attitude towards the likes of Novikov...

    Catherine initially had no problem with it, but, yes, the Revolution affected the reputation of Masonry. But they say the same ting about Coffee.

    So there is an odd mention of this Rosicrucian Lodge. It doesn't come from or originate within Masonry.

    Here it is from the view of Masonry, which Rosicrucianism obviously was not a part of:

    At this juncture, the relationship between Freemasonry and Rose Cross was only the result of specific individuals who decided to explore and cross pollinate. However, in 1777, one of these circles became a unified group and took the name of The Golden and Rosy Cross of the old system. Its structure was masonic and it was composed of nine high degrees. They required their members to take a strict oath regarding rites and initiations, and they maintained a rigid hierarchical structure. This initiatic group recruited many Freemasons who were interested in the esoteric sciences, such as: Alchemy, Qabalah, and Christian esotericism. The group initiated members of different political affiliations; since they worked in harmony with each other, the group became quite socially influential. Despite this fact that it grew in size very quickly, the Order disappeared approximately nine years after its birth.

    On a Muse review, his Lodge is the center of a deep and complex milieu:

    These works stimulate a constructive debate about a part of modern culture that, three centuries after its foundation, is still surrounded by legend and suspicion. Russian Freemasonry remains a riddle that historians have been unable to unravel.

    Smith's work opens with Novikov's arrest in 1792; the author returns to Novikov and his Muscovite Rosicrucian circle several times, highlighting its crucial role in the "increasing differentiation of tastes and interests." The public and public opinion in Russia appeared at roughly the same time as in the rest of Europe, despite the backwardness of Russian society, and the Typographical Company started by Novikov played a key role. "The works Novikov published with the Moscow University Press and the Typographical Company could be purchased in about twenty provincial book shops".

    ...for Rosicrucian Masons. They introduced radically new models of behavior and developed a reform plan similar to many utopian projects that pervaded European cultural life in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    ...the utopianism of the Rosicrucian movement, which played an important role in Russia.

    The Russian Rosicrucian Freemasons directed their movement, both ethically and socially, against domination by ancien régime society and the individualism on which modern Western society was being built. Indifference to key social values and the prestige of rank and chin worried the authorities. The Rosicrucians matched the social hierarchy with one of spirit, awareness, and faith that did not overlook the basic equality of mankind. This led to a complete inversion of values and to the exaltation of humility (smirenie) as a fundamental ethical principle.

    What should be added is that contemporary historiography also distinguishes between different Enlightenments, in order to highlight nuances and peculiarities that cannot fit within a universal concept. The same needs to be done when investigating the multi-faceted phenomenon of 18th-century Freemasonry, both in Russia and in the West, which was a huge cauldron of different and often contradictory values and ideas. There can be no doubt about the links between Freemasonry and democratic constitutionalism, on the one hand, and conservatism, on the other: this web of contrasting stimuli can only be understood by examining the various Masonic systems, or "observances," in which the Brotherhood realizes itself. Each system had its own universe of values and behavior, a different way of relating to institutions, to civil society, to politics and to governments. Between the extremes of accepting the contemporary order and its values, and the hidden subversive impetus behind the utopianism of Bavaria's Illuminati, the range of choices open to Russian and European Freemasons was vast and filled with nuances. A sociological analysis of Russian Freemasonry that overlooks the history of the ideas will miss these distinctions.

    From Russian Freemasonry:

    Rosicrucianism was accepted by Schwarz and Novikov as the one true form of Freemasonry, and became a highly secretive practice directly subordinated to Wöllner and Theden and operating under the facade of the lodge of Harmony that officially belonged to the Strict Observance system. The elite of Russian Masonry was enrolled in the exclusive "theoretical degree of Solomonian sciences" (ranking above three regular degrees), the Constitutions of which were obtained by Schwarz from the Three Globes in Berlin in 1781. Novikov administered this organization and Schwarz provided intellectual guidance, but the control over the organization came directly from Berlin. As a result of the Wilhelmsbad Convent, Wölner's Lodge of Three Globes declared its independence from the Strict Observance on 30 January 1784.

    However, already in 1776, many Freemasons in Russia were warned to be ware of the fact that "the Hydra of the Strict Observance that raised her head in Russia again".

    In the 1780s, Russian Freemasonry' s most illustrious period, several Russian lodges formed a close association with the Berlin lodge of Three Globes, headed by J. C. Wöllner, and dedicated their work and studies to theosophical mysticism. In P.3 we will thus investigate the reasons that foreign Freemasons used for spreading the Craft into Russia.

    In an attempt to reconcile different Masonic systems, Duke Ferdinand of Brunswick proposed that the various orders and rites, mainly the three currents in the German Masonic world -- Rosicrucians, Strict Observance Freemasons and llluminati of Bavaria -- meet at Wilhelmsbad for the Convent.

    During the Convent, the following questions had to be answered: "Does the order truly originate from an ancient society, and if so, which? Are there really Unknown Superiors, keepers of the ancient Tradition, and if so, who are they? What are the true aims of the order? Is the chief aim to restore the order of the Templars? The questions also included the problem of whether the order should concern itself with the occult sciences."

    That is significant. It was done three times. No conclusions were ever reached.

    Rummaging through those larger articles one easily sees that the Lodges host "any and all" political types and so on. Different ideas about mystical vs. Enlightenment, tradition and progress, in fact it is like they are identifying that the wide variety of opinion is out there. It is suggested this is one of the reasons for the "vows of secrecy", so you could voice an opinion without fear of repercussion.

    Thomas Jefferson thought the Illuminati would have had no need for secrecy if they had been in the American Colonies; and the general reason that Carbonari movements faded away is the same.

    How would the Rosicrucians know to resist the individualism on which the West was being built?

    Why is this coming up in Russia on a group which goes off in a flash in the 1780s?

    It is at the time of first free press guy. When you are first, you can't go back and do it again. But at first, they are already wary about something from the West on a psychological plane.

    The German Rosicrucians:

    While clearly Protestant, the Rosicrucians were anything but anticlerical, were pro-monarchic and held views clearly conflicting with the Illuminati vision of a rationalist state run by philosophers and scientists. The Rosicrucians were not above promoting their own brand of mysticism with seances. A conflict became inevitable as the existence of the Illuminati became more evident, and as prominent Rosicrucians and mystics with Rosicrucian sympathies, were recruited by Knigge and other helpers. Kolowrat was already a high ranking Rosicrucian and the mystic Prince Charles of Hesse-Kassel had a very low opinion of the rationalist higher grades of the Illuminati.

    The Prussian Rosicrucians, under Johann Christoph von Wöllner, began a sustained attack on the Illuminati.

    Wollner's is the ca. 1750 Fictuld tradition which is indeterminable.

    In Gould's History around 1814:

    At this period the Grand Orient of France was in communication with the Grand Lodges of Baden in Swabia, of the kingdoms of Italy and Naples, of Poland and Lithuania, of the Three Globes at Berlin, of the Duchy of Warsaw, of Vienna and of the kingdom of Westphalia (Kloss, op. cit., vol. i, p. 5 8z). The Grand Lodges at Frankfort, Hanover, The Hague, etc., were ignored by French Masons as having no right to exist in territory occupied by France.

    After the 1782 Convention, these Rosicrucians add Egyptian rites, and then become interior to Egyptian Rite Masonry:

    According to the writings of the Masonic historian E.J. Marconis de Negre, who together with his father Gabriel M. Marconis is held to be the founder of the "Rite of Memphis-Misraim" of Freemasonry, based on earlier conjectures (1784) by a Rosicrucian scholar Baron de Westerode and also promulgated by the 18th century secret society called the "Golden and Rosy Cross", the Rosicrucian Order was created in the year 46 when an Alexandrian Gnostic sage named Ormus and his six followers were converted by one of Jesus' disciples, Mark.

    That is the normative Rosicrucian self-story, but what HPB was closer to mentally and personally was Coptic Orthodoxy:

    Suwwah (Arabic: سواح, plural of Arabic: سائح = traveller, wanderer, itinerant) are Coptic Christian anchorites in Egypt.

    Madame Blavatsky had an interest in the suwwah, and spent time with a Coptic magician, Paolos Metamon. She considered that the suwwah to be survivors of a mysterious brotherhood, transmitters of an ancient pre-Christian system of beliefs.

    Most likely this refers to the Therapeutae, such as with Valentinus:

    Valentinus, who has been called the “profoundest Doctor of the Gnosis,” was educated in Alexandria in all that Egypt and Greece had to offer. His unusual learning and eloquence are admitted even by his bitterest enemies, and no word has ever been uttered against his moral character. While Valentinus was living in Alexandria, he came in contact with those communities which have already been described: the Therapeutae and the Ophites. From them he learned of the existence of the Gnosis, that original Source from which all true systems of religion and philosophy have sprung. Realizing that the various Gnostic Schools were presenting but aspects of the Gnosis, Valentinus resolved to synthesize these different aspects, and from this synthesis to formulate a universal system which would include them all, even Christianity. But the exclusive policy of the orthodox Church was definitely opposed to anything which denied the uniqueness of the Christian religion. And so Valentinus, like Basilides and Marcion, was excommunicated and his works destroyed. Another “heretic” was removed from the ranks of Christianity, and another door to knowledge closed. Again the work of the Theosophical Movement was frustrated by those who failed to realize its importance.

    Coptic New Testament first half of Acts of the Apostles, Codex Glazier:

    The Philae Temple of Isis was converted:

    If you go into artistic detail, you will notice the standard Maltese and Coptic Crosses both have three points at the end of their limbs, so, e. g., the Twelve Apostles.

    Therapeutae from Isis Unveiled:

    During the stormy days of Irenaeus the Platonic philosophy, with its mystical submersion into Deity, was not so obnoxious after all to the new doctrine as to prevent the Christians from helping themselves to its abstruse metaphysics in every way and manner. Allying themselves with the ascetical therapeutae--forefathers and models of the Christian monks and hermits, it was in Alexandria, let it be remembered, that they laid the first foundations of the purely Platonic trinitarian doctrine.

    "The altogether mystical coloring of Christianity harmonized with the Essene rules of life and opinions, and it is not improbable that Jesus and John the Baptist were initiated into the Essene Mysteries, to which Christianity may be indebted for many a form of expression; as indeed the community of Therapeutae, an offspring of the Essene order, soon belonged wholly to Christianity" ("Yost," i., 411--quoted by the author of "Sod, the Son of the Man").

    In The Key:

    Josephus proved that the Essenes
    of Carmel were simply the copyists and followers of the
    Egyptian Therapeutae (the healers).

    Therapeutae, or Therapeuts {Gr.) A school of Jewish mystic
    healers, or esotericists, wrongly referred to, by some, as a sect. They
    resided in and near Alexandria, and their doings and beliefs are to this
    day a mystery to the critics, as their philosophy seems a combination of
    Orphic, Pythagorean, Essenian and purely Kabalistic practices.

    In a letter:

    As to Paul, no one, I know of, ever mistook him for an adept, and (since his history is pretty well known) least of all, our occultists. A simple tent-maker (not “a fierce soldier,” as “Zero” puts it), he became first a persecutor of the Nazarenes, then a convert and an enthusiast. It is Paul who is the real founder of Christianity, the Reformer of a little body, a nucleus formed from the Essenes, the Nabatheans, the Therapeutae, and other mystic brotherhoods (the Theosophical Societies of old Palestine)—and which was transformed over three centuries later, namely, under Constantine, into “Christians.” Paul’s visions from first to last point him out rather as a medium than an adept, since to make an adept requires years of study and preparation and a solemn initiation under some competent Hierophant.

    More from Isis:

    The Koinobi lived in Egypt, where Jesus passed his early youth. They were usually confounded with the Therapeutae, who were a branch of this widely-spread society. Such is the opinion of Godfrey Higgins and De Rebold. After the downfall of the principal sanctuaries, which had already begun in the days of Plato, the many different sects, such as the Gymnosophists and the Magi--from whom Clearchus very erroneously derives the former--the Pythagoreans, the Sufis, and the Reshees of Kashmere, instituted a kind of international and universal Freemasonry, among their esoteric societies. "These Rashees," says Higgins, "are the Essenians, Carmelites, or Nazarites of the temple." * "That occult science known by ancient priests under the name of regenerating fire," says Father Rebold, " . . . a science that for more than 3,000 years was the peculiar possession of the Indian and Egyptian priesthood, into the knowledge of which Moses was initiated at Heliopolis, where he was educated; and Jesus among the Essenian priests of Egypt or Judea; and by which these two great reformers, particularly the latter, wrought many of the miracles mentioned in the Scriptures."

    Plato states that the mystic Magian religion, known under the name of Machagistia, is the most uncorrupted form of worship in things divine.

    The mysterious Druzes of Mount Lebanon are the descendants of all these. Solitary Copts, earnest students scattered hither and thither throughout the sandy solitudes of Egypt, Arabia, Petraea, Palestine, and the impenetrable forests of Abyssinia, though rarely met with, may sometimes be seen. Many and various are the nationalities to which belong the disciples of that mysterious school, and many the side-shoots of that one primitive stock. The secresy preserved by these sub-lodges, as well as by the one and supreme great lodge, has ever been proportionate to the activity of religious persecutions; and now, in the face of the growing materialism, their very existence is becoming a mystery.

    According to Philo:

    The name, “Therapeutae”, was a Greek cultic term for worshippers, particularly of an Hellenistic Egyptian god, Serapis. An association of this god, on an inscription in Delos, calls its members Therapeutae. Another sanctuary of Therapeutae to Serapis has been found in Magnesia. This will explain the emperor Hadrian’s odd remark: “The Christians and the worshippers of Serapis are the same.


    Communities of Therapeutae were widely established in other regions, Philo understood, for "this class of persons may be met with in many places, for both Greece and barbarian countries want to enjoy whatever is perfectly good."

    From an article on Parallels:

    Dec 30, 1896. Swami Vivekananda was fast asleep on the ship which was taking him back to India after a whirlwind tour of Europe and America when he had a vivid dream. An old and bearded man appeared before him, saying, “Observe well this place that I show to you. You are now in the island of Crete. This is the land in which Christianity began.” In support of this origin of Christianity, the speaker gave two words, one of which was Therapeutae, and showed both to be derived direct from Sanskrit roots. “The proofs are all here,” added the old man, pointing to the ground, “Dig and you will find!”. The Swami woke, feeling that he had had no common dream, and tumbled out on deck, to take the air. As he did so, he met a ship’s officer, turning in from his watch.

    “What is the time?” he asked him.
    Midnight,” was the answer.
    “And where are we?”
    “Just fifty miles off Crete !”

    This unexpected coincidence startled the Swami, lending inevitable emphasis to the dream itself.

    Scholars who have investigated these similarities have proposed that either or both of the following could be true:

    (a) Jesus absorbed Buddhism from the Therapeutae sect during his youth in Egypt, and it is this interaction that gave rise to the similarities that are found in the teachings.

    (b) The gospel writers, who had access to Buddhist monks or scriptures, deliberately burnished the biography of Jesus in order to gain more converts to what was then a minor Christian sect which was being actively persecuted by the Roman rulers.

    It has become a standard question on Therapeutae:

    Philo's description of the doctrines and practices of the Therapeutae leaves great ambiguity about what religion they are associated with. Analysis by religious scholar Ullrich R. Kleinhempel indicates that the most likely religion the Therapeutae practiced was Buddhism.

    It is unlikely that Theraputta was the source of the name since there are similar Greek words much older.

    HPB does not assert this, she would have gone sixty miles high if she had heard of this. She thought they were Jewish originally. If there was something to this, perhaps members of the community would have suggested it. It does not really add up that you would spontaneously re-name yourself "Child of the Elders" in a foreign language because some missionaries showed up. If they had this intent, you would find Theravada temples and the like, but the most compelling evidence is just that it is accepted there was an Indian presence around the Mediterranean. If they employed Theravada, then yes, it probably would appear "religiously ambiguous" compared to the many related sects. But it is not quite "a religion" and not much about healing. I would hesitate to say that they did more than "accepted its tenets". Similarity f names must be rejected in some cases, where in others it works:

    Nasrani are the Indian Nazareans, followers of St. Thomas.

    Alexandria is the Church of Mark, which makes the Rosicrucian statement impossible to refute. It doesn't verify it, but is plausible.

    When the church was founded during the reign of the Roman emperor Nero, a great multitude of native Egyptians (as opposed to Greeks or Jews) embraced the Christian faith.

    They were booted from Eastern Orthodoxy at Chalcedon 451 for the Miaphysite doctrine, but:

    Since the 1980s theologians from the Oriental (non-Chalcedonian) Orthodox and Eastern (Chalcedonian) Orthodox churches have been meeting in a bid to resolve theological differences, and have concluded that many of the differences are caused by the two groups using different terminology to describe the same thing.

    Mark is held to have founded the Didascalium of Alexandria, the first Christian school.

    "The Council of Constantinople, convened in 381", a little while after the death of St. Athanasius of Alexandria, "had far-reaching effects for Egypt". After declaring the primacy of the Bishop of Rome at the expense of Alexandrian authority, riots destroyed the school.

    From what I have seen, several of the Eastern churches have decided their heretical schisms are more of an iconoclasm or jousting for supremacy of words, even though in some cases they are trying to establish a similar meaning. This 381 decision is different though. Permanent and different. All Orthodoxy is mostly similar to itself, whereas Rome and certain other deviations have different beliefs and practices in an incompatible way.

    Theosophy seems unmotivated towards Protestantism. Although it may have initially been good to pry back the fingers of papal authority, without much specifically of value to contribute, HPB felt it was already into its phase of Decay:

    That the whole area of Protestantdom is now ready to embrace some new faith which seems more consoling than Protestantism and more reasonable than Romanism, is so palpable and undeniable that no well-informed, disinterested observer will gainsay the statement. This conviction induced the founders of our Society to organize for the quest after primitive truth. And it makes some of us believe that the auspicious hour has come for the Buddhists to begin preparing for a new propaganda of Buddhism.

    It also comes up somewhat indirectly from her diatribe on Jesuitry which has the epic conclusion:

    “When the conquerors of all the ancient nations are in their turn conquered by an army of black dragons begotten by their sins and born of decay, then the hour of liberation for the former will strike.” Easy to see who are the “black dragons.” And these will in their turn see their power arrested and forcibly put to an end by the liberated legions. Then, perhaps, there will be a new invasion of an Atilla from the far East. One day the millions of China and Mongolia, heathen and Mussulman, furnished with every murderous weapon invented by civilization, and forced upon the Celestial of the East, by the infernal spirit of trade and love of lucre of the West, drilled, moreover, to perfection by Christian man-slayers—will pour into and invade decaying Europe like an irresistible torrent. This will be the result of the work of the Jesuits, who will be its first victims, let us hope.

    She has as one source Lord Robert Montagu:

    ...the Roman Catholic Church is now “the largest secret society in the world, beside which Freemasonry is but a pigmy.”

    Protestantism is slowly, insidiously, but as surely, infected with Latinism—the new ritualistic sects of the High Church, and such men among its clergy as Father Rivington, being undeniable evidence of it.

    Think of even a part of it—the Jesuit Society—with its Nihilist adherents in Russia, its Socialist allies in Germany, its Fenians and
    Nationalists in Ireland, its accomplices and its slaves in its power; think of that Society which has not scrupled to stir up the most bloody wars between nations, in order to advance its purposes; and yet can stoop to hunting down a single man because he knows their secret and will not be their slave—hunting him down, discrediting him, and thwarting him at every turn, with the cool calculation that they will either drive him mad or make him put an end to himself, so that the secret may be buried with him. Think of a Society which can devise such a diabolical scheme, and then boast of it; and say whether a desperate energy is not required in us. . . .

    If you had been behind the scenes . . . . then you would still have before you the labour of unravelling all that is being done by our Government, and of tearing off the tissue of lies by which their acts are concealed. Repeated attempts will have taught you that there is not a public man on whom you can lean. Because, as England is “between the upper and nether millstone” none but adherents or slaves are now advanced; and it stands to reason that the Jesuits, who have got that far, have prepared new millstones, for the time when the present ones shall have passed away; and then, again, younger millstones to come on after, and wield the power of the nation.

    And Kenneth Mackenzie:

    ‘Their spies are everywhere, of all apparent ranks of society, and they may appear learned and wise, or simple and foolish, as their instructions run. There are Jesuits of both sexes and all ages, and it is a well-known fact that members of the Order, of high family and delicate nurture, are acting as menial servants in Protestant families, and doing other things of a similar nature in aid of the Society’s purposes. We cannot be too much on our guard, for the whole Society, being founded on a law of unhesitating obedience, can bring its force on any given point with unerring and fatal accuracy.’

    One of her sources is fairly well-known:

    British politician Lord Robert Montagu called the Roman Catholic Church "the largest secret society in the world" and gave a great warning on the power of the Jesuits (1886).

    Recent Events and a Clue is rather long.

    Catholic Telegraph 1888 reports a demonstration in Manchester denouncing Jesuits for all the invasions.

    England has nearly a mythology on it:

    One need look no farther
    for evidence of Catholic perfidy than to the attempted assassinations
    of Queen Elizabeth, the Gunpowder Plot of 1605, the Irish massacre
    of 1641, and the Great Fire of 1666.

    A similar quote of Lady Mary Montagu 1717:

    ...the barbarous persecution of the protestant
    Religion by the Emperour Leopold. That Prince has left behind him
    the character of a most extraordinary Piety and was naturally of a
    mild mercifull temper, but putting his conscience into the hands of a
    Jesuit, he was more cruel and treacherous to his poor Hungarian
    Subjects than ever Turk has been to the Christians, breaking without
    scrupule his Coronation oath and his faith solemnly given in many
    public Treatys.

    Overall, the English were really glad for the coming of the House of Orange. William immediately led Everyone against France in the Nine Years' War. I am not sure why Tarpley harasses the Glorious Revolution or accession of William and Mary to England in 1688. It is correct that the charter for the Bank of England is shortly after his arrival. But this is the next step from what was the major foundational change brought by the Lord Protector for Life:

    As Lord Protector, Cromwell was aware of the Jewish community's involvement in the economics of the Netherlands, now England's leading commercial rival. It was this—allied to Cromwell's tolerance of the right to private worship of those who fell outside Puritanism—that led to his encouraging Jews to return to England in 1657, over 350 years after their banishment by Edward I, in the hope that they would help speed up the recovery of the country after the disruption of the Civil Wars. There was a longer-term motive for Cromwell's decision to allow the Jews to return to England, and that was the hope that they would convert to Christianity and therefore hasten the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, ultimately based on Matthew 23:37–39 and Romans 11.

    He died the following year.

    He is praying for Zionism to international financiers. Nothing has changed since then. England can rid itself of Catholic monarchy, but not this. Again, this is a Christian belief, that perpetually offering salvation to Jews, and/or them residing in Palestine, is of benefit to Jesus himself. This does not come from Orthodoxy, Catholicism, or even Luther who see them as committing a grave error for having refused this salvation in the first place.

    Nothing from St. Germain seems to be pro or con Christianity, in fact he seems to have nothing to do with it. Nor is there a clear sign he had converted to Islam or been raised as a Jew. He was described as epitomizing Lucretius, who was a pre-Christian influence on Virgil. He introduced Epicureanism to the Roman public, saying that the universe was run by Fortuna, not divine intervention. This philosopher had disappeared from mainstream study until:

    ...it played an important role both in the development of atomism (Lucretius was an important influence on Pierre Gassendi) and the efforts of various figures of the Enlightenment era to construct a new Christian Humanism:

    Christian humanism regards humanist principles like universal human dignity, individual freedom, and the importance of happiness as essential and principal or even exclusive components of the teachings of Jesus. Proponents of the term trace the concept to the Renaissance or patristic period, linking their beliefs to the scholarly movement also called 'humanism'.

    Ashmole promoted the use of therapeutic remedies drawing on both Galenic and Paracelsian principles, and his works attempt to merge the two schools. The Way to Bliss (1658) recommends ways to prevent illness: a balanced diet, moderate exercise and enough sleep. His works were avidly studied by other natural philosophers, such as Isaac Newton.

    This does not seem specific to any kind of religion, but, a broad set of principles accessible to all. Fortuna is not merely "chance", but an ancient Etruscan goddess which was introduced to Rome:

    During the early Empire, an amulet from the House of Menander in Pompeii links her to the Egyptian goddess Isis, as Isis-Fortuna.

    Evidence of Fortuna worship has been found as far north as Castlecary, Scotland and an altar and statue can now be viewed at the Hunterian Museum in Glasgow.

    In Dante's Inferno (vii.67-96), Virgil explains the nature of Fortune, both a devil and a ministering angel, subservient to God.

    Fortuna lightly balances the orb of sovereignty (Globus Cruciger) between thumb and finger in a Dutch painting of ca 1530:

    It appears simple enough, it is scientific law which is certainly not "random", nor is it dead because it has divinity, which is not the superstitious or story-book variety.

    After returning from India 1755, some of the only discernable politics of St. Germain occurred in:

    The Seven Years' War (1756–1763)

    George Washington started this, which put Britain in debt, which made America rebel, which put it in debt, which he presided as the Constitution became the effective way of nationalizing the individual state debts.

    One has to be careful in the ICO book because she has the Adhemar forgery in there, but, citing other sources:

    Not least amongst these stands Voltaire, the sceptic, who in his voluminous correspondence with Frederick of Prussia says, April 15th, 1758: "Your ministers are doubtless likely to have a better outlook at Breda than I; M. le Duc de Choiseul, M. de Kaunitz, and M. Pitt do not tell me their secret. It is said to be only known by a M. de St. Germain, who supped formerly at Trent with the Council Fathers, and who will probably have the honour of seeing your Majesty in the course of fifty years. He is a man who never dies, and who knows everything."

    The important point in this letter is that Voltaire refers to a political connection of M. de St. Germain with the Prime Ministers of England, France and Austria, as if he were in the intimate council of these leaders. The Baron de Gleichen gives some details in his memoirs, and as he became later deeply interested in the mystical work of the Comte de St. Germain, his version is of much value, giving as it does an insight into some of the complications in France. He writes: "The Marshal [de Belle-Isle] was incessantly intriguing to get a special treaty of peace made with Prussia, and to break up the alliance between France and Austria, on which rested the credit of the Duc de Choiseul. Louis XV. and Madame de Pompadour wished for this special treaty of peace. . . . The Marshal drew up the instructions; the King delivered them himself with a cipher to M. de St. Germain."

    Thus, then, is the mission duly signed and sealed by the King himself, but, as we shall see, even the royal protection could not avert the suspicion and distrust which so unpleasant a position naturally incurred, and when M. de St. Germain arrived at the Hague he came into collision with M. d’Affry, the accredited Ambassador from France.

    Passing, however, rapidly on to follow the events at the Hague, we next have some interesting despatches from M. de Kauderbach, Minister from the Saxon Court at the Hague, wherein he recounts much that has already been given in these pages in praise of the Comte de St. Germain, of his powers and knowledge and then goes on to say: "I had a long conversation with him on the causes of the troubles of France, and on the changes in the choice of Minister in this kingdom. This, Monseigneur, is what he said to me on the subject: 'The radical evil is the monarch's want of firmness. Those who surround him, knowing his extreme good nature, abuse it, and he is surrounded only by creatures placed by the Brothers Pâris, who alone cause all the trouble of France. It is they who corrupt everything, and thwarted the plans of the best citizen in France, the Marshal de Belle-Isle. Hence the disunion and jealousy amongst the Ministers, who seem all to serve a different monarch. All is corrupted by the Brothers Paris; perish France, provided they may attain their object of gaining eight hundred millions! Unhappily the King has not so much sagacity as good nature; he is not, therefore, aware of the malice of the people around him who, knowing his lack of firmness, are solely occupied in flattering his foible, and through it are ever preferably listened to. The same defect as to firmness is found in the mistress. She knows the evil and has not courage to remedy it.' It is he then, M. de St. Germain, who will undertake to cure it radically; he takes upon himself to put down by his influence and operations in Holland the two names so prejudicial to the State, which have hitherto been regarded as indispensably necessary. Hearing him speak with so much freedom, one must look upon him either as a man sure of his ground, or else as the greatest fool in the world. I could entertain your Excellency much longer with this singular man and with his knowledge of physics, did I not fear to weary you with tales which must seem rather romantic than real."

    Belle-Isle's page accepts the anecdote. He had been fervently anti-Austrian his whole career.

    M. Antoinette "knows" and is basically inert.

    On the whole, from the Seven Years War, Britain increased, most countries remained status quo, and France lost:

    France was deprived of many of its colonies and had saddled itself with heavy war debts that its inefficient financial system could barely handle.

    The war restructured not only the European political order, but also affected events all around the world, paving the way for the beginning of later British world supremacy in the 19th century, the rise of Prussia in Germany (eventually replacing Austria as the leading German state), the beginning of tensions in British North America, as well as a clear sign of France's revolutionary turmoil.

    In France, there was a movement called Anglophile or Anglomanie, exemplified by Voltaire and Montesquieu:

    The general slogan of "freedom" is here ensconced in social ethics. The well-known attributes of the separation of powers, trial by jury and so on do not alone characterise the English political world. It is a civilian world, in which the military does not play a role; it is a middle-class world, in which social rank is less important than on the continent. This is the ideal of "taking the leash off those who work hard" bound up with the conviction that this unimpeded self-realisation also guarantees salus publica. German observers, by visiting London coffee houses and experiencing the tumult of parliamentary elections, by listening to the great speakers in the House of Commons and reading the newspapers, partook of some of the freedom they wished at home.

    The main difference in Montesquieu's design--which is the template for most federal governments today--was in legitimizing the Judiciary. In England it mainly functioned as a mouthpiece for the King. The French idea is that it makes non-biased decisions just based from the law and precedent. Europe had been infiltrated by coffee from the Siege of Malta:

    Once the drink was safely cleansed of sin and the people of Europe were successfully protected from it, coffee really started to take off across the continent - but the danger wasn't over. By the mid-seventeenth century coffee houses had sprung up across all of the major cities and they fast became centres of intellectual debate about politics and religion. All of the great philosophers, writers and orators would gather to spread their ideas and discuss the finer points of society while sipping their coffee, and while it ushered in a new age of enlightenment, not everybody was pleased. By 1675 there were over 3000 coffee houses in England alone as as the general public spent more and more time discussing esoteric matters of governance and religion, the authorities - and the King - grew more and more frightened.

    In 1675, the King of Great Britain and Ireland, Charles II, was feeling a little uneasy on his throne. He was the first King after the Glorious Revolution saw his father executed, and despite the relative peace of his rule, he was unable to produce a male heir. Knowing of the whispering that was going on in coffee houses across the kingdom he began to fear another uprising, and the figure at the centre of his worry was coffee, the stimulating drink adored by radical thinkers.

    He did not succeed in abolishing it, but, we see that coffee houses were a "revolutionary threat" significantly before Freemasonry or other secret societies. This was what foreigners liked about England, it had become street culture, it was unusual to be able to express yourself or think differently from what you are told. This makes sense although, by extension, "Anglophile" could come to mean that you favor that country over your own, and therefor decide to Anglicize it. And so it is probably fair to say that "within the Anglophiles and Encyclopedists" were Frenchmen who were siding with England, not that those broad umbrellas are synonyms for "traitor".

    Part of the point in referring to St. Germain previously is that, although lacking in detail, it is a quite early statement about finance being able to control a king and corrupt society. It is superficially unclear exactly what Duverney's malignant effect was; however:

    He spent 18 months in the Bastille, was released in 1728, and retired to his estates in Champagne, where he entered into a long correspondence with Voltaire.

    He was Administrator-General of Provisions from 1736–1758. This post and his extensive network of contacts enabled him to exercise extensive influence over government policy.

    From 1760 he protected and financed Pierre Beaumarchais, whom he introduced to the business world in exchange for favours at Court and for commercial and financial missions.

    Beaumarchais was an Anglophile:

    In 1759, Caron met Joseph Paris Duverney, an older and wealthy entrepreneur. Beaumarchais assisted him in gaining the King's approval for the new military academy he was building, the École Royale Militaire, and in turn Duverney promised to help make him rich.

    While in Spain, he was mostly concerned with striking business deals for Duverney. They sought exclusive contracts for the newly acquired Spanish colony of Louisiana and attempted to gain the right to import slaves to the Spanish colonies in the Americas. Beaumarchais went to Madrid with a letter of introduction from the Duc de Choiseul, who was now his political patron.

    Upon first reading a manuscript of Beaumarchais's play, King Louis XVI stated that "this man mocks everything that must be respected in a government" and refused to let it be performed.

    Shortly after the death of Voltaire in 1778, Beaumarchais set out to publish Voltaire's complete works, many of which were banned in France.

    In the same category, but, evidently on the opposite side from this group, M. de Belle-Isle is the very first in a French view of Anglomanie.

    As the way of recognizing Anglophilia as simply an inspiration:

    The zenith of Anglophilia ended with the French Revolution. Well-known representatives of Anglophilia such as Archenholtz and Wendeborn broke with their ideal of England, seeing now the humanist goals of freedom and equality being realised in France, at least during the early phases of the French Revolution.


    ...seeing that the developments in France confirmed their belief that England in fact embodied more reasonable, stabile and harmonious inclinations. After 1800, Anglophilia was therefore no longer unequivocally a matter for progressives and liberals, but in part a component of the restorationist ideal of conservatives who followed Edmund Burke.

    Fievee' 1802:

    ‘If civilization … is the art of rendering society pleasing, agreeable and congenial, the English constitute the least civilised nation of Europe.’

    Again..."first contact" was great, and then a few years down the road, not everyone is so sure they want to be thoroughly Anglicized. As to whether this is the "individualism" the Russians warned of, one cannot be sure, but it seems likely.

    We saw that England never pursued an Enlightened Monarch, and, is not quite the birthplace of the arts--so Anglophilia more or less corresponds to British Enlightenment:

    This chapter discusses British Deism, the rejection of republican radicalism, and the French anglicisme in the mid-18th century. Voltaire, Montesquieu, and Maupertuis, the giants among the French philosophes in the mid 1740s, were, in various ways, all ardent protagonists of the ‘British Enlightenment’. Around 1745, the movement which d’Alembert dubbed anglicisme was indeed at its zenith, with d’Alembert himself frequently extolling Newton and Locke in these years while the young Diderot joined in with his part translation and part reworking of Shaftesbury’s Inquiry Concerning Virtue (1699), published in 1745.

    At that point, we know that a slanted distortion of Newton is what is used to deaden science. That is not to say the whole Encyclopedia is false, but it is a hidden assumption that removes knowledge by not giving the full story.

    Voltaire was opposed to the church and welcomed the Jesuit suppression. He, however, admired Jesuit science, believing it to be integral to the Enlightenment. The problem was that it was in the hands of the main obstacle to free thought, the church.

    Rousseau in turn rejected science and culture as a waste of time against man's savage nature. Voltaire's Reason was intellectual and atheistic and related to the dead matter materialistic belief and the Encyclopedists. Noble savage went more towards the concept of heart centered-ness. In 1802 along with a Pope/Republic concord, Chateaubriand wrote Genie du Christianisme, attempting to synthesize religion with both scientific reason and the wild heart, which may be among the first and only examples of such a unity statement.

    There was publication of, and in fact an organized smuggling ring of heretical books in the 1540s, mainly supplied by Pietro Perna in Basel, and at least three receivers in Venice. Venice was massive in the early printing days, but was low on Natural Philosophy.

    Some of the Rosicrucian names had been researched in an article which I did not recognize but is part of a larger work by
    A. E. Waite, who has some other remarks about Russia:

    We shall see also that
    Masonry and the Rosy Cross were known in common par-
    lance and were identified, politically speaking, under the
    generic name of Martinism.

    It seems to have permeated all Masonic systems in Russia, as it did in a
    number of French Rites and in the German Strict Observance, when the latter
    came over to France.

    The original Strict Observance:

    ...the great Rite of Baron von Hund had effected
    an entrance so far back as 1765? but had found no soil in
    which to take permanent root.

    at the convention:

    ...he met with persons who “ hid from the other
    Masons.” They were in fact Rosicrucians but distin-
    guished apparently by a different policy than was followed
    by Baron Ecker und Eckhoffen at the same time in the same place.

    It is on record that Baron Hans Heinrich von Ecker und Eckhoffen
    was engaged actively in the precincts of the Congress conferring his Grade
    called True Rosicrucian, being part of the system known as Asiatic Brethren.

    ...out of the Rosy Cross in Russia
    there was produced the idea of an Interior Church as conceived by the
    mystic Lopukhin.

    ..the only
    country in which it was enabled to illustrate the thesis that
    it was fons et origo of ancient Freemasonry by having
    Masonry under its wing.

    There is a story that Catherine got mad at Nikolai because she was trying to ask how deep Paul had got into Masonry and he would not give any answer. On ascendancy, Paul could have re-instated Masonry but he:

    ...became instead Grand
    Master of the Order of Malta.

    And in
    whatsoever places of hiddenness there was also and remained
    the Russian Rosy Cross. I have had reports concerning it
    by word of mouth, testifying to a time when it reposed in
    the bosom, so to speak, of certain families, as if it were a
    family tradition, a skeleton in the cupboard of certain
    noble houses, a secret abiding under their armorial bearings.
    I have had reports of it later still, also by word of mouth,
    and according to these some branch or phase or remnant was
    subsisting under a rose of many petals in Petrograd, prior
    to the War.

    As I have been told that in Russia, prior to the recent revolution and
    indeed before the War there was still a Rosy Cross which was a kind of
    family inheritance, concerned solely with Magic and have set it aside for
    want of evidence, though the communication was made in good faith, so I
    have heard and left over some vague rumours that the chief secret of the
    Order was a sex-mystery. It does not happen to come from those who,
    groping in the dark over cryptic texts, have suggested to themselves and
    others that the Key to alchemical literature should be sought in this direction.

    He seemed to have a somewhat favorable view of that branch on a spiritual basis.

    Theosophy is not Rosicrucianism, but reports on it and notes the similarities. In most of their literature, HPB's adepts have it that their greatest secrets were taught world-wide in Masonry, but at least in England and on the continent, the real Grand Masters or gurus died out, and their authentic manuscripts were reduced to ashes starting towards the end of the 1600s and pretty much all erased by 1720 with something that belonged to Nicholas Stone. Elias Ashmole (1617-1692) is usually counted as among the last of the knowing. St. Germain attempted to leave his masonic history in England, but even this was found unsafe and it was returned to Amritsar.

    This last bit is mentioned in something by Yarker on Gothic Builders:

    But on the death of the Gothic Builders and the attenuation of their Lodges there arose, temp. Jas. I., a young Englishman of the name of Inigo Jones, whom the Earl of Pembroke took into Italy.

    He studied with much interest, amongst the disciples of Palladio and the Comicini, the classic works of Italy, and on his return reorganised such bodies as existed on the model of the {421} Italian academies, and brought over Italians to instruct the Guilds in the classical Masonry of old Rome, and it became a fashion to term the magnificent Gothic erections a barbarous style? Our principal authority for this statement is Anderson who says that the account was recorded in a MS. by Nicholas Stone which was burnt in 1720, in order, we may suggest, that it might not fall into his hands.

    Ashmole (1617-1692) is considered a type of Royalist Freemason. He clearly follows William Backhouse, who was a benefactor of St. Paul's Cathedral (considering the Great Fire).

    From Hieroglyphic King and Civil War:

    However, the nationalist Masonic agitation in Scotland had unex-
    pected ramifications in England. In the painful spring of 1641, Charles
    I watched helplessly as the militant party in Parliament ordered the
    imprisonment of Laud in the Tower and the trial of the archbishop's
    principle advisor, Thomas Wentworth, First Earl of Strafford. The
    earl had made an architectural name for himself through his pro-
    jects in Yorkshire and an ambitious construction scheme in Ireland,
    where he served as Lord Deputy. He shared the Stuart belief that
    "good architecture made for the seemly exercise of good govern-
    ment," and he saw his restoration work at Dublin Castle as com-
    plementary to Laud's at St. Paul's Cathedral. Strafford hoped to
    implement Inigo Jones's building regulations in Ireland, and he aspired
    to equal him in architectural design...

    While William
    Murray, John Mennes, and brothers of the Fancy secretly worked
    on a project to liberate Strafford from prison, the Puritan party
    pushed through an order for his execution on grounds of treason.

    The reasonable view of Masonry is that there is *no* continuity to "ancient fraternities" but it *does* originate within Gothic Builders:

    If, on the other hand, the attempt be only to show that Freemasonry contains survivals and inheritances of the cultural experiences of all past times, the undertaking is by no means difficult. Such an attempt naturally presupposes a hypothesis that the origins of the Fraternity as a separate institution are to be sought in a period which would be calculated to give it the peculiar and distinctive traits it has been known from its earliest provable history to possess. The nascency of Gothic architecture supplies precisely such a period. If the guilds of the Gothic builders did not give origin to Freemasonry, it is at least certain that Freemasonry first appears in a recognizable form among those guilds. To go behind the records which prove that, is to abandon the realm of history for that of speculation and fancy.

    We can chisel at this forever, but, we will probably remain with this basic situation. That around the time of Ashmole there was, in 1600s England, a blend of Rosicrucianism, Masonry, and even Coffee which was not anti-monarchist and was not anti-religionist. This however was stamped out by Puritans. Afterwards, what comes out as British Enlightenment is heavily weighted on the side of Voltaire, which is much closer to anti-monarchism and dead souls science.

    Past this point we are unable to credit England as being much vanguard of Neo-Platonism, whereas it has anchored institutions which remain today as bastions of Capitalism.

    For a few more ideas on these Rosicrucians:

    Between 1603 and 1625 several important books appeared in which the Fraternity was mentioned, the most important being the Apologia of Robert Fludd, which was published in 1616 and is still preserved in the British Museum. In 1623 there were said to be only thirty-six Rosicrucians in Europe, scattered about in six different countries. By the end of the seventeenth century many prominent men (among them the German philosopher Leibniz) were identified with the Rosicrucians, and in the eighteenth century Cagliostro and the Count de St. Germain travelled throughout Europe trying to unite the Masons and the Rosicrucians on the common basis of Eastern Occultism. With the “death” of Cagliostro the last real Rosicrucian disappeared from Europe.

    One of the aims of the Rosicrucians was to combine the various branches of Occultism into a synthetic whole. Many of the Brothers were alchemists, seeking for the invisible “spirit” in inorganic as well as organic matter. To these alchemical Rosicrucians is attributed the rediscovery of the secret of the “ever-burning lamps,” known to many ancient nations but which had been lost for 1500 years. Three of these lamps, which had been burning in Roman sepulchres for fifteen centuries, were found in Italy shortly after the death of Christian Rosencrenz...

    The Rosicrucians denied the ordinary chemical theory that the nourishment of kindled fire must of necessity be converted into vapor, declaring that the “spiritual essence” of liquid gold (gold being the metal which wastes least when heated or melted) can be made to absorb its oily humidity, thus continuously feeding its own flame. “The Hermetic gold,” said Robert Fludd, “is the outflow of the sunbeam, or of light suffused invisibly into the body of the world. Light is sublimated gold, and gold is thus the deposit of light, which of itself generates.”

    And finally, finding a compendium on Blavatsky on Masonry:

    From the French name ‘Maçon’, derived from ‘Mas’, an old Norman noun meaning a house’, comes our English ‘Mason’, a house builder.

    Who was, in fact, the first operative Mason of any consequence? Elias Ashmole, the last of the Rosicrucians and alchemists. Admitted to the freedom of the Operative Masons’ company in London, in 1646, he died in 1692. At that time Masonry was not what it became later; it was neither a political nor a Christian institution, but a true secret organization, which admitted into the ties of fellowship all men anxious to obtain the priceless boon of liberty of conscience, and avoid clerical persecution. [I.U.349]

    The entrance of such men as Elias Ashmole into the Operative Fraternity paved the way for the great ‘Masonic Revolution of 1717', when SPECULATIVE Masonry came into existence. The Constitutions of 1723 and 1738, by the Masonic impostor Anderson, were written up for the newly-fledged and first Grand Lodge of ‘Free and Accepted Masons’ of England, from which body all others over the world hail today. [I.U.II, 389]

    Notwithstanding its great youth, this grand lodge has ever claimed the acknowledgment of its supremacy by the whole body of the fraternity throughout the whole world, as the Latin inscription on the plate put beneath the cornerstone of Freemasons’ Hall, London, in 1775, would tell to those who could see it. [I.U.350]

    Masonry – not the political institution known as the Scottish Lodge, but real Masonry, some rites of which are still preserved in the Grand Orient of France, and that Elias Ashmole, a celebrated English Occult Philosopher of the XVIIth century, tried in vain to remodel, after the manner of the Indian and Egyptian Mysteries – Masonry rests, according to Ragon, the great authority upon the subject, upon three fundamental degrees: the triple duty of a Mason is to study whence he comes, what he is, and whither he goes; the study that is, of God, of himself, and of the future transformation. Masonic Initiation was modelled on that in the lesser Mysteries. The third degree was one used in both Egypt and India from time immemorial, and the remembrance of it lingers to this day in every Lodge, under the name of the death and resurrection of Hiram Abiff, the “Widow’s Son”. In Egypt the latter was called “Osiris”; in India “Loka-chakshu” (Eye of the World), and “Dinakara” (day-maker) or the Sun – and the rite itself was everywhere named the “gate of death”. The coffin, or sarcophagus, of Osiris, killed by Typhon, was brought in and placed in the middle of the Hall of the Dead, with the Initiates all around it and the candidate near by. The latter was asked whether he had participated in the murder, and not withstanding his denial, and after sundry and very hard trials, the initiator feigned to strike him on the head with a hatchet; he was thrown down, swathed in bandages like a mummy and wept over. Then came lightning and thunder, the supposed corpse was surrounded with fire, and was finally raised.

    If the Masonic temples are lighted with three astral lights, the sun, the moon, and the geometrical star, and with three vital lights, the Hierophant and his two Episcopes [Wardens, in French Surveillants], it is because one of the Fathers of Masonry, the learned Pythagoras, ingenuously suggests that we should not speak of divine things without a light ....

    Such passages prove to us that in those days the primitive Church worshipped the great architect of the universe in its image the sun, sole of its kind .....

    On documents left by St. Germain with a friend in England, 1760:

    He did so on the conditions that these documents would become the secret heritage of all those descendants of the Kabbalists who became Masons. These papers, however, were of value to but two Masons: the father and the son who has just died, and they will be of no use to anyone else in Europe. Before his death, the previous documents were left with an Oriental (a Hindu) who was commissioned to transmit them to a certain person who would come to Amritsar, City of Immortality, to claim them.

    J.M. Ragon, a Belgian by birth, and a Mason, knew more about Occultism than any other non-initiated writer.

    A high Mason told the writer that Ragon had corresponded for years with two Orientalists in Syria and Egypt, one of whom is a Kopt gentleman.

    It is also told, confidentially, that the famous founder of the Lodge of Trinosophists, J.M. Ragon, was also initiated into many secrets by an Oriental, in Belgium, and some say that he knew Saint-Germain in his youth. This might perhaps explain why the author of the Tuileur général de la Franc-Maçonnerie, or Manuel de l’Initié, affirmed that Elias Ashmole was the real founder of modern Masonry.

    I personally do not see a political answer as being found. The arguments on "freedom" do not hold out as absolute, because that can only make sense if I am an ultra shamanic hunter-gatherer and I just live off the land in the face of the elements, under my own power. The small common ground I have with Masonry is the issue of finding Peace while at the same time we must live with a "price for civilization". Having a fixed house and some manner of sanitation provided. I cannot be all that "free" if I am in fact highly inter-dependent on the services of others. It is easy to find in fourteenth-century Italy or even nineteenth-century Dorset cottages that a "house" was still quite close to mud and usually an illiterate, very bland lifestyle. The idea of the Renaissance was to upgrade this. The English kind is its own and I suppose gets its own name at an early stage.

    It sounds quite weird, almost alien, to me, to contemplate that kind of a heritage. By adapting cultures that are not part of my native surroundings, it seems perfectly natural to me to understand actual lineages that reach back for centuries, if not millennia. These are very important, are what gives us a "more than mud" existence. It sounds like Europe had a branch tip of something similar, and it just did not work out. Russian censorship was at least never coming from the Pope. It was less affected by British Freemasonry. Kiev, however, is "free" and obviously friendly to the Anglosphere, which is different. We can trace England mutating since the early days of free speech or the press. So of course this language is inadequate for Asiatic spirituality.

    Both Greece and India have what I would call deviations which begin to assert that reason, the intellect, etc., is man's mind which is divine, and we would say this is a theological error. From within this branch, you get that Aristotelianism which leads to reductionism and materialism, etc., as used in Capitalism.

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    There were some posts on what we might call the Greco-Roman sphere, and this one will be more Greece and India.

    In the West, for the most part, in the nineteenth century, no one really knew anything about India, let alone Buddhism.

    Mahatma Letter 120 or 85 explains how the Chohan himself wants Anna Kingsford to be President of the London Lodge because she is into Hermeticism. A. P. Sinnett was told the Chohan also wants to make it possible for people to directly study or perhaps join Buddhism. This was an intentional decision because it was believed the sensitivities of English audiences would respond better to Kingsford, whereas the ongoing presence of Sinnett would keep them both at their wits.

    The letter praises Hermetic Philosophy as something universal, while thinking that Buddhism will probably always seem sectarian to those outside of it.

    To me, it works backwards, since it is due to Theosophy that I give Hermetics or Christianity some amount of consideration.

    We found that both the Coptic Church of Alexandria, and some Rosicrucians, attribute their origin to Apostle Mark the Lion. This name will make more sense in a moment.

    In early times, one of HPB's first magic teachers was Paulos Metamon, a Copt who was supposedly well-known around Cairo. It seems to be accepted that Max Theon at one point was another student of his. By using what I call "couched" language, which abounds with vague phrases like "is linked to", people find proof of heinous allegations through these points. Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, again, is its own thing, distinct from the Brotherhood of Luxor, and HPB repudiated it.

    The question was raised recently by Alighieri:

    Broadly speaking, Blavatsky's public life can be divided into an "Egyptian" or Hermetic period, beginning with her attempt to form a magic club or "société spirite" in Cairo in 1872, and an "Indian" or Oriental
    period, beginning with her arrival in Bombay at the beginning of 1879.

    This is also a cycle--she had also gone to Egypt around 1849 or 50 as alluded by Albert Rawson, and thence eventually on to New York. In the early 1870s, she was in Egypt again, and then back to New York, on a mission.

    On her second Egypt, the attempted group failed and she:

    ...went to live in Boulak near the Museum. Then it seems, she came again in contact with her old friend the Copt of mysterious fame, of whom mention has been made in connection with her earliest visit to Egypt, at the outset of her travels. For several weeks he was her only visitor. He had a strange reputation in Egypt, and the masses regarded him as a magician. The Egyptian high officials pretending to laugh at him behind his back, dreaded and visited him secretly. Ismail Pasha, the Khedive, had consulted him more than once, and later on would not consent to follow his advice to resign.

    Blavatsky had left Egypt to go to Odessa, where her family were; but she had already left there in the spring of 1873 to stay with one of her von Hahn cousins in Paris.

    Evidently Madame Coulomb and the continuing membership of the Société Spirite were on one level, that of conventional spiritualists and their mediums, while Blavatsky and Metamon were involved in practical occultism that had nothing to do with the putative spirits of the dead.

    That is the beginning of some big trouble. Coulomb is a Spiritist, and HPB is going to New York specifically to combat Spiritism. The trouble is the name "Luxor" is being copied, so she makes the refinement:

    The name Luxor is primarily derived from the ancient Baloochistan city of Looksur, which lies between Bela and Kedgee, and also gave its name to the Egyptian city.

    She is doing this while saying that *already* in the United States existed the real "Brotherhood of Luxor", contrasted to any recently-named club. The group she means was heavily involved with the pre-Theosophical Society:

    Olcott received at his law office an impressive document written in gold ink upon thick green paper, signed by Tuitit Bey. This informed him that three other masters were also interested in him: Serapis Bey, Polydorus Isurenus, and Robert More. Moreover, the brief letter thrice urged Olcott to "TRY."

    Alexander Galitzin is said to have sent HPB after Metamon and the other Masters.

    The competition, or imitators, may be seen in that Rawson had gone back to New York and was acting weird. One might think he is full of "hot air". It is like aping a style without getting the substance. The Polish had already fervently dressed themselves in Persian silks and it didn't do much.

    So you have to examine closely to find specific points where HPB picks off the likes of Rawson, the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, the Golden Dawn, and practically everything that may sound similar to but is not Theosophy. Otherwise this "guilty by association" mentality leads to conclusions like she is heavily involved in Surrendering Islam. Such a study does bear a great amount of detail, but has out-of-context selectivity. She was trying to do something not aligned to any other group, as in a few more quotes from Alighieri:

    I was sent from Paris on purpose to America to of the Spiri-
    tualistic theories of ''Spirits." But how could I do it best? I did not want people at large to know that I could
    produce the same thing at will. I had received ORDERS to the contrary, and yet, I had to keep alive the reality, the genuineness and possibility of such phenomena in the hearts of those who from Materialists had turned Spiritualists and now, owing to the exposure of several mediums fell back again, returned to their skepticism. And: Truth in modern Spiritualism, and it is my most sacred duty to unveil what is, and expose what is not. I am here, in this country sent by my Lodge...

    The first formal announcement of Blavatsky's mission was an advertisement addressed to spiritualists and placed by Henry Olcott on 17 April 1875 in The Spiritual Scientist. After he had written it, Blavatsky told Olcott to sign it: "For the Committee of Seven, Brotherhood of Luxor."

    What will, perhaps, still more astonish American readers, is the fact that, in the United States, a mystical fraternity now exists, which claims an intimate relationship with one of the oldest and most powerful of Eastern Brotherhoods. It is known as the Brotherhood of Luxor, and its faithful members have the custody of very important secrets of science. Its ramifications extend widely throughout the great Republic of the West. Though this brotherhood has been long and hard at work, the secret of its existence has been jealously guarded. Mackenzie describes it as having "a Rosicrucian basis, and numbering many members" ("Royal Masonic Cyclopaedia," p. 461). But, in this, the author is mistaken; it has no Rosicrucian basis.

    HPB was never "under" any of the modern Speculative Freemasons or any of these people, and was not trying to give them cover for subversive activity. She tried to deal with them and agree as far as it was possible, and, in pretty much every case, ran up on something that did not fit. Here, I am not really sure how Mackenzie could possibly know what she is talking about, or, if there was such a thing, it would not be Rosicrucian. One cannot distinguish whether the Masonic Founders, or, perhaps later, Greek immigrants are intended here. It could be read that Luxor only means the Eastern headquarters, and the Americans are just "related" to it. I am not sure we can ever get objective facts in this direction. We could say she is about to combat a continent, and maintains that she already has a few supporters here.

    We should keep in mind that she was astrally clairvoyant, and knew what she was talking about to a large extent because she was dealing with other people who acted similarly. Several of them she met "in real life".

    It is not terribly secret that we can uncover some of the western branch of the Eastern Brotherhood:

    Serapis Bey (chief of Ellora section), Polydorus Isurenus (Solomon section), Robert More (Zoroaster section). Serapis Bey is sometimes referred to as "Maha Sahib" (sahib, respectful title towards westerners) and also, "youngest of the Chohans" (an initiation above Mahatma). It's thought that Col. Olcott did his magnetic healing based from a lock of hair from Serapis Bey. They also knew Hilarion, a Greek Cypriote. Whatever this group was, vanished around 1882, escaping the British bombadment of Alexandria (presumably).

    HPB met Hilarion Smerdis/Ooton Liatto in 1860. Same fellow that visited her in New York (on the way to Japan) with an older adept, who produced "dry rains" in Olcott's room upstairs. He eventually headed to Bombay then Tibet in 1881 for an initiation, and never was known to return to Cyprus or Egypt after the British occupation. Put together with Koothoomi's statement, it sounds very much like the Egyptian lodge was dismantled and folded into the Druze. We thought the Druze took the other remaining Gnostics in the 900s. According to this, some remained in Alexandria; but no longer after this event.

    Serapis was a very famous deity until the destruction of the last Serapeum 391:

    The statue suitably depicted a figure resembling Hades or Pluto, both being kings of the Greek underworld, and was shown enthroned with the modius, a basket / grain-measure, on his head, since it was a Greek symbol for the land of the dead. He also held a sceptre in his hand indicating his rulership, with Cerberus, gatekeeper of the underworld, resting at his feet. The statue also had what appeared to be a serpent at its base, fitting the Egyptian symbol of rulership, the uraeus.

    Similar to Hecate and the Underworld of Pythagoras, he is a form of Osiris, the character of the death and resurrection motif.

    On a grand scale:

    Egypt (exoterically) moved from a time of Serapis, which is Asr-apis, Osiris in Apis bull form, being predominant, to the Ram (Amon) of Mendes (later rendered into the Goat of Mendes, Baphomet). Allegorically, Moses may have repeated this by having a problem with golden bull worship, and setting up the ram in relation to passover.

    Without inflaming sectarian strife, the Bull and Ram probably have another significance.

    It starts when the Pole Star was Thuban (Alpha Draconis).

    This may quickly become familiar, but, to understand the East, we must alter the typical thinking somewhat. Certainly one of the foremost entities we should become familiar with is Spica:

    Spica is the brightest star in the constellation Virgo and was the star that helped unearth the 26,000 year cycle known as the Precession of the Equinoxes.

    As the story goes a temple in Thebes built around 3000 BC was originally aligned with Spica but the Heliacal sighting was found to have significantly drifted off target some 3200 years later.

    In ancient Egyptian times (3000 BC) the northern pole star was Thuban in the Constellation Draco, and in around 12000 years time the pole star will have moved close to brilliant Vega.

    At the time of building Stonehenge and the Pyramids, the star nearest the Pole was Thuban in the constellation Draco.

    "Pole" is approximate, as it just means a visible star closest to where the pole itself really is. As the general history of Precession:

    In 3000 BCE, when Thuban was the pole star, the Vernal Equinox was
    already well situated in the constellation Taurus. Between about 2000 BCE
    and 100 BCE, the Vernal Equinox resided in Aries. By the time of Claudius
    Ptolemy, 100 CE, it moved into the constellation of Pisces where it will
    reside for several hundred years until it
    slowly migrates into the constellation

    So, yes, there is something about passage from a Bull to a Ram.

    By making the Tropical system, you have a permanently-fixed projection of the mathematical Equinox, through which the whole Zodiac would appear to rotate, because the Point of Aries is the Equinox. Therefor the Sign Aries does not stick to the stars that are in the constellation Aries. The constellations or asterisms are always the same, yet someone has decided that perfect thirty-degree abstract pie wedges spin across these stars.

    Eastern time is a physical clock, where the mathematical Equinox is allowed to be the thing that freely rotates through physical star signs which themselves don't move.

    Again, of course, the physical observable is what man always went by, until some Greek mathematicians made the universe more geo-centric, I suppose.

    The Age of Taurus is preserved as the Fixed Cross (Crucifix) from Ezekiel's Wheel within a Wheel:

    Ezekiel describes four creatures, which we have understood to be the 4 fixed signs of the zodiac (Aquarius, leo, Taurus, and Aquila,) and their corresponding Ages. He then says that he looked and saw a wheel the color of beryl beside each of the creatures. Beryl is the color of a blue-green sea. The heavens were considered to be a great sea or ocean, so naturally would be the color of beryl. The wheel had a wheel inside the wheel. The outer wheel would be the counter clockwise 24,000 year, Great Year, which completes the 360 degree cycle. The inner wheel would be the faster moving clockwise 365 day mundane year. In actuality, the ancients once used a 360 day year.

    To the Romans, a "crux" is simply a frame, and persons were frequently executed on an X, T, or I, and there is not an objective reason to say it must have been a +. Astrology starts to say how man is fixed to what we call a cross shape. When symbolized with four points per limb, as with the Copts and Maltese, this reminds us of Twelve Signs.

    I do not know the real origin of Western expressions like "Fixed Cross" and probably most of my familiarity derives from the Theosophist Alan Leo:

    His work stimulated a revival of astrology in the Western world after its decline at the end of the 17th century.

    Leo wrote the first Esoteric Astrology and I think it is in there, but, he is also already tainted with pseudo-Theosophy. "Lesson of Three Crosses" on p. 284. Astrology for All reminds us that the Pythagorean Heliocentric system was forgotten until Copernicus.

    HPB does not seem to use such terms although she defines the same thing as Cherubim:

    Hayyoth Haq-Qadosh (Hebrew) Ḥayyōth haq-Qādōsh [from ḥayyāh a living being + haq definite article + qādōsh holy] Holy living creatures; Qabbalistic term for the four creatures of Ezekiel’s vision, generally referred to as the cherubim. These holy living creatures are the four symbolic beasts which in the zodiac are called Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, and Aquarius.

    S. D.:

    The Evangelical zoolatry -- the Bull, the Eagle, the Lion, and the Angel (in reality the Cherub, or Seraph, the fiery-winged Serpent), is as much pagan as that of the Egyptians or the Chaldeans. These four animals are, in reality, the symbols of the four elements, and of the four lower principles in man. Nevertheless, they correspond physically and materially to the four constellations that form, so to speak, the suite or cortege of the Solar God, and occupy during the winter solstice the four cardinal points of the zodiacal circle. These four "animals" may be seen in many of the Roman Catholic New Testaments where the portraits of the evangelists are given. They are the animals of Ezekiel's Mercabah.


    The Merkabah is a mystical tradition whose name came from the first chapter of the book of Ezekiel when Ezekiel ascended with his chariot. This tradition is believed to have been current during the Second Temple period in Jewish history (c. 538 BCE - 70 CE). Its primary sources are the Greater and Lesser Hekhaloth, which speaks of the various halls or palaces that the mystic must go through in order to enter the Merkabah.

    From another angle, we just presume it to be Chaldean:

    The Ancients in their wisdom had drawn from the riddle of the Sphinx four basic rules for conduct of human life -knowledge with the human brain; will with the lion's strength; daring (or lifting oneself) with the bold strength of the eagle's wings; silence with the powerful concentrated bulk of the bull.

    Often the figure of Christ is depicted at the heart of the Tetramorph, as a Pantokrater, that is, an omnipotent Ruler over All.

    As for whether early Christians knew that John's vision referenced back to Ezekiel which itself originated from Babylonian astrological symbolism; one can only presume it be nothing other than an act of knowingly supplanting one set of religious symbols over another.

    It was in fact the early Church Father Saint Jerome who is credited as first nominating the symbols of Bull, Eagle, Angel and Lion to the four Gospel authors. Jerome's selection of the so-called 'Fixed Cross' of Astrology, (Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius) as emblematic 'Logo's' to the 4 Gospels is a superb example of syncretism...

    Without knowing where Leo got his terms and explanations, Ezekiel's idea remains well-known as the Persian Royal Stars:

    Aldebaran marked the vernal equinox and Antares marked the autumnal equinox, while Regulus marked the Summer Solstice and Fomalhaut the Winter Solstice. While watching the sky, the dominant star would appear in its season, each having a time of the year when most noticeable. Regulus was seen as the main star because it was in the constellation of Leo, giving it the power of the lion, signifying the strength of kings with large implications.

    In Persia, Regulus is important because it is "in" Leo. If we turn to the Golden Dawn instructions, we can find that they misplace Regulus, defining it as the Cusp if I recall correctly. Israel Regardie of the Golden Dawn said the beginning of the Zodiac is marked by Regulus. It's 5 deg Leo; he didn't explain it.

    The primary of Regulus A has about 3.8 times the Sun's mass. It is spinning extremely rapidly, with a rotation period of only 15.9 hours, which causes it to have a highly oblate shape. It is emitting polarized light because of this.

    I found a different application of Ezekiel and the Royal Stars:

    According to Puranic sources, Krishna's death marked the end of Dvapara Yuga and the start of Kali Yuga, which is dated to 17/18 February 3102 BCE.

    There are a few astrological stories which discuss this as being a conjunction of all the planets. But this did not turn out to be particularly important, as it is not hard to find five or eight examples which would be much better for this. So I tried making a special kind of star chart.

    The program defaults to Fagan-Bradley offset, which can be changed, but I'm not sure it needs to. Signs in Vedic (clockwise) order.

    We are looking at the normally accepted date of Krishna's death at Balkha Tirtha (pilgrimage site) in Gujarat.

    I have removed western components such as Asc and MC and turned off the aspects, so we have a clear picture only of the "nine grahas"--the planets and the moon's nodes.

    I was able to add the Royal Stars, as we have found, at this time, the Vernal Equinox was at Aldebaran, the Bullseye of Taurus. Aside from the Nodes, we are only looking at actual physical objects mapped to each other, there are no abstract signs precessing. Aries simply begins opposite Spica, in contrast to Regardie or the Tropical system.

    Ordinarily, there is a sixty-year Shaka which resets in a similar way along with a Sun-Moon Conjunction. Krishna's date is even more intricate.

    The Moon showing up within one degree of "day one", the first lunar mansion at the beginning of Mesha-Aries...is noticeable. Jupiter is close enough to be in the same lunar mansion as the Moon.

    The reason that is intriguing is because these are the "hands of the clock". The Moon is a "fast hand" ticking day by day, and Jupiter is a "slow hand" of twelve years, considered among the larger units of time that a human typically comprehends. The customary sixty-year cycle is five Jupiter transits, or Jupiter multiplied by the five-year period of Venus. Samvatsara is both the esoteric explanation of the five-year period, and a sixty-year cycle.

    Indian Astrology is simply this physical clock, in an uninterrupted chain, using this date as a major reset or a "new zero hour" for all intents and purposes.

    It happens to be about as dead center to the Fixed Cross as one could ask for.

    Also I am quite positive the Central Sun as referenced in Theosophy is not the galactic core as associated with Mayan Astrology.

    In India, Krishna's brother is Hercules or story of labors in the twelve signs, and the constellation Hercules containing the solar apex and central sun.

    Compared to the core, the Sun/Solar system itself seems to be just orbiting the galactic center, while bouncing above and below the galactic plane like a sine wave. Sagittarius A is not even in the constellation Sagittarius, but fairly close to it; the "Teapot" asterism "spouts out" the galactic bulge where it is:

    So far, I have no information or esoteric lore that would suggest anything at all about this region. That is where it is and it is not our Central Sun in Indian spirituality.

    In the 1870s, HPB had nothing at all to do with this, but was in the United States where some very strange things happened.

    John King was the equivalent of a celebrity of the dead, and had been used by mediums for years, as the ghost of a British pirate. Col. Olcott, who had been investigating Spiritualism for years, met HPB when she was sent to counter it, and quickly realized that what she was doing was very different than what mediums of the dead were doing.

    At one point she makes the statement that the ordinary person would not be able to tell the difference between a ghost and the astral projection of an adept.

    This is exactly what she used to her advantage.

    Her John King was a mix of elementals and the astral projection of a living person. Elementals were used to cause knocks or raps in answer to questions. One time Olcott challenged her, and went through a series of questions which kept being answered correctly. Finally, it was "How many keys are on my ring (which was in his pocket)?". Again-correct. Olcott himself didn't know how many there were. HPB explained it and said it was easy--even though you don't "know" how many, the memory is there in your subconscious, and all I do is read that and tell him how many. To her, that was nothing.

    So, appropriating the name John King was simply a way to get the foot in the door, so to speak. The Adepts freely admit that--towards probationers--they are deceptive and manipulative. This can be seen in the early letters to Olcott from the Luxor branch. They were using HPB's second marriage to Mr. Bettanelly as a trial, with Olcott as the "hinge". He was to prevent her from returning to Philadelphia without ever giving the real reasons. In doing so, he was watched at one time by the heads of the Ellora, Solomon, and Zoroaster sections (Ellora actually being the fifth section). One night he was watched by no less than seven adepts. HPB was being raised in Ellora; she had said her initiation was with the Druze (of Lebanon).

    John's behavior could often be classified as irritating or nonsensical. He was around almost every night in those days and was pretty nosy and manipulative about money. He helped HPB through a lawsuit by recommending the opposite of her lawyer's counsel, and, at the end, made him beat up the other lawyer. So to appearances sake, he was rather unconventional to say the least.

    Nevertheless, HPB described him as an initiate, but less than a master. There are some other reasons, but, considering Hilarion Smerdis went to Tibet for initiation in 1882, that's most likely who it actually was. He wrote some fictional stories with HPB and two with Mabel Collins. She had known Hilarion and/or John since at least as early as 1860.

    Self-portrait. Drawn from the astral plane. HPB did some of the foliage, but John decided she worked too slowly and finished it.

    In the portrait, we are asked to learn the meaning of the symbols; including the mother/child, the book (which I can make out Alpha-Omega and a Hebrew Shin), the hexagram and Jaina cross, the columns with symbols on top.

    If you can do that, you are nearly an adept.

    Taken from an extensive King archive.

    The early Luxor communications have a distinctively Rosicrucian tone. By this, we do not mean that it was launched by Akhenaton, that they were Lutherans, or formed any public society of that name. Koothoomi was in perfect agreement with the well-known Rosicrucian phrase "To know, to dare, to will, and to keep silence". HPB bequeathed to Annie Besant an "18th degree Rose Croix" pendant which had belonged to Cagliostro. So the "real" Rosicrucians were secret as in dead silent. They had at least five branches in multiple mid-Eastern and European countries, although we cannot attach even a pseudonym to most of the members. Nevertheless, we can see that an "advanced chela" has the ability to project anywhere in the world, and not merely observe, but to carry out actions.

    Thus, "some of our chelas would seem to you like adepts; you couldn't tell the difference". The Brotherhood's plan is to affect public consciousness by slow degrees, which is represented by infiltrating Spiritualism, then starting a small focused society, before issuing a fragment of their secrets to the world wide public, as a direct opposition to materialistic science and a variety of religious dogma.

    Also, Philadelphia was where she hurt her leg moving a bed. It swelled to twice normal size and turned black. She started having 2-3 hour sessions where observers could not detect a pulse and thought she was dead. The doctor wanted to amputate it. She refused. John King healed her by having her keep a little white dog on it. And then suddenly overnight she was normal.

    The house where this happened is now the White Dog Cafe on Sansom Street.

    There are no explanations for the term "Ellora" appearing in the "western branch". The first Order of Tuitit Bey had arisen from the Observatory of Luxor:

    “The sun of Theosophy must shine for all, not for a part. There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling of, and the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is secretly going on in all parts of the world. Even in the T.S. there is a division, managed by a Greek Brother about which not a person in the Society has a suspicion excepting the old woman and Olcott; and even he only knows it is progressing, and occasionally executes an order I send him in connection with it. (…) Europe will not be overlooked, never fear; but perhaps you even may not anticipate how the light will be shed there.”

    HPB was mysteriously helped in writing down long parts of her masterpiece “Isis Unveiled” by Henry More, the neoplatonist who died in 1687. Two hundred years later, in the last quarter of the 19th century, More was firmly established and working in his vast library, in his kama-loka, the first phase of the afterlife. Neoplatonism and neopythagoreanism are under the influence of the Observatory of Luxor or Egyptian-Greek Lodge. The cooperation between Henry More and HPB is described in the first volume of Henry Olcott’s Diary.

    * In Letter LXXXV of “The Mahatma Letters”, which was written by order of the Maha Chohan, there is an emphatic defence of Hermetic philosophy, a school of thought which comes from ancient Egypt and has much in common with neopythagoreanism and neoplatonism. In the letter, the Mahatma tries to preserve in the London lodge of the theosophical movement an equilibrium between two groups of students. On one side were those who preferred the Eastern teachings transmitted by the Mahatmas of the Himalayas. Their leader was Alfred Sinnett, who at the time was living once more in London. On the other side were the students who preferred the Western teachings and were, technically, under the influence of the Observatory of Luxor. Their main leader was Anna Kingsford. Although she had not a direct and authentic contact with the Egyptian Lodge (in fact, she had imaginary contacts)...

    Among these numerous thinkers one finds Epicurus, the founder of the “Garden” whose ideas – as those of every pioneer – were distorted and attacked by narrow-minded people.

    Epicurus is seen by HPB as a true philosopher of the occult wisdom, and the present text should be closed with one of his axioms. While examining the direct relationship between wisdom and happiness, the philosopher taught:

    “It is impossible to live pleasantly without living prudently, well, and justly, nor is it possible to live prudently, well, and justly without living pleasantly. The man for whom this latter condition is impossible cannot live prudently, well, or justly; he for whom the former is impossible cannot live pleasantly.”

    Neither Sinnett nor Kingsford worked out. Annie Besant came under the sway of a Mr. Chakramvarti, an orthodox Brahmin. He greatly accelerated the "falling away" from the original, and the introduction of other things. A few years down the road, one of the real disciples of Koothoomi, B. P. Wadia, an Indian of Zoroastrian (Parsi) descent, who had apparently met the Master at the Elephanta complex, started getting sick of what Ledbeater, Besant, and Bailey were doing, and was instrumental in forming the ULT. He was probably one of the last ones who made an attempt to set some people into direct contact with KH. One of these people turned out to be--Dion Fortune. After a brief period, Dion did not want to be involved, as the "source" did not seem to care for European attitudes or Christianity. I believe she went to Alpha Omega.

    Bhavani Shankar, who had personally met the master, described their teachings as blasphemy, dragged down into modern ignorance.

    The original Theosophy is partially credited to Ramalinga:

    Mme. Blavatsky wrote that "Ramalingam Yogi was verily in the counsels of those who ordered us to found the Society".

    One well-known Mahatma was Ramalinga, who was so luminous he could not be photographed. HPB believed he was a Mahatma with an accurate prophecy: "His prophecy about the Universal brotherhood in India to be established by the wise from Russia and America and the far North India is quite correct. In 1873, I got a command to go from Russia to Paris; in the June of the same year to the United States. I went to New York. It was during this time that the Mahatma was telling what would happen in the future."

    She spoke with someone who witnessed his last day: "This body
    will not be available for burial or for burning. I am in Stidaka Nirvikalpa
    Samadhi (Supreme state of Bliss-Consciousness). For a while I will wander
    as a Siddha. I will work not only in India, but in the western countries too.
    I will return at last with a divine body! Now close and lock all the doors and
    windows; completely close and seal them. But if the curious open this,
    there shall be only emptiness!”

    Then he was gone.

    Along the lines of a non-violent revolutionary, Wadia was responsible for the passage of the Montford Reform Act of 1919, which is about Indians taking back over their own government.

    Some of B. P. Wadia's story has been obtained from Dallas Tenbroeck, a friend who lived with him in the area and witnessed him meet a Toda one time, who then wandered off into the jungle instead of down the road.

    Similarly, in 1883, a year after meeting Narayan around Arcot, HPB took an adventure for three months to Ooty and came out with a five chapter book, originally in French, now translated as The Peoples of the Blue Mountains (Nila, blue, giri, hills). She stayed in the household of General Henry Rhodes Morgan, a Theosophist, who was basically the first/oldest English family in the area (since 1845). It's pretty amazing.

    People of the Blue Mountains

    In the archaic sense, it is said that "western" means a distortion of Zoroaster, who is almost as old as, and supposed to be a legitimate branch of, Vedic Fire Philosophy. Mani was a reformer in the situation where Zoroastrianism had already suffered many conflicts and wipeouts and so forth. It seems to me that his material was lifted out of Persia and used to create the "Devil" that exoteric religion relies on. So B. P. Wadia gives the esoteric explanation about this. Essentially, the West took a distortion of Mani and repressed the rest pretty much until Wadia explained it.

    Wadia's Zoroastrian Philosophy.

    ULT Sweden has scores of Wadia articles.

    Tenbroeck, who met him in Bombay 1942, was of the opinion that--unlike most other Theosophists--Wadia was really following the Master because he did not advertise, promote, or preach from his experience at Elephanta 1907, as explained in his bio Life of Service:

    He spoke of this to several friends assembled around his death-bed, saying that it was there that he had a "vision," and held a dialog with the Master at the "Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva Cave."

    Here are a few other notes on B. P. Wadia.

    He met Robert Crosbie and agreed ULT, and had everything to do with Indian Home Rule. There become a lot of ULT Lodges in India, and Gandhi is quite close to this mindset. Theosophy has something to do with Buddhism--I am not sure if it is really the "Gelug order", but, rather, the personal motivations of the Panchen Lama that are astir. His office published Icons Worthwhile to See in the early 1800s, and Tibet itself was experiencing Rime' or a non-sectarian movement, to put the other philosophies or sects on an even par with the Gelug apparatus. The Panchen's book is a cross-compilation of everything that could be found. That is like a nascent Theosophy of Buddhism, for which we would argue the Tibetan lineages split one main Indian tradition into various interpretations, and so yes, the same deconstruct/reconstruct applies here.

    It may be a little bizarre that the Zoroastrian Wadia shows up related to Buddhism.

    Here is an amazing concatenation beginning in 1882:

    October 1—H.P.B. is at Ghum, staying apparently at the monastery, some 23 miles from Darjeeling. It is on this trip that H.P.B. spent two or three days in Sikkim in the company of the Masters and was restored to much better health.

    It is not the complete name, but there definitely is such a Ghum. The external structure of the building was established in 1850 by the Mongolian astrologer and monk Sokpo Sherab Gyatso, who was head of the monastery until 1905.

    Samten Choling is also quite near Ghum. The monastery, which was built in 1875 by Lama Sherab Gyatso, follows the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism.

    David Reigle arranged a newer translation of HPB's Voice of the Silence with Geshe Lozang Jamspal, who, according to Sylvia Cranston, "During the course of the visit the Muratores showed him The Voice of the Silence, directing his attention especially to the notes. The effect was electrifying. He confessed amazement that such information was available in the West. As to HPB, he said, “She must be a bodhisattva“.”

    From the older Peking edition:

    there is a Comparison of translations.

    Geshe has also helped with a special Lotus Crown Tantra. More famously he worked with Robert Thurman on Maitreya's Mahayana Sutra Alamkara.

    According to a Bhutanese Lama Tinley on the "Golden Precepts--Voice of the Silence":

    It has been found that an original Tibetan text of the Book of the Golden Precepts was seen and studied at the Buddhist monastery of Thongsa Gompa in Kalimpong, Northern India, around 1950.

    That article has more story on the new edition background. Its main editions are H. H. Panchen Lama VII & HPB, H. H. Panchen Lama VIII & Alice Cleather, and this.

    The oldest in the area, Thongsa Gompa 1692 is a Bhutanese Nyingma institute.

    Tharpa Choling, 1912, is Gelug and very international.

    Kalimpong, West Bengal, was sparsely populated by the indigenous Lepcha community and migrant Bhutia, Limbu and Kirati tribes, through the end of the nineteenth century.

    One could call Kalimpong a British-developed ethnic melting pot, also widely accepted as receiving rare texts in wake of the later Chinese invasion, stored at Zang Dhok Palri. The Roerichs lived at Kalimpong, Lama Kazi Samdup was born here (translator for Evans-Wentz and David-Neel). The modern practitioner Sangharaksita was here and in "In the Sign of the Golden Wheel" he mentions having to go to Maitri Bhavan, Bangalore, to study even rarer texts. This was in fact the local ULT center, the residence of B. P. and Sophia Wadia, with whom he became great friends. They heavily focused on Buddhism in relation to what HPB said, and Sophia spoke of taking police protection in Argentina due to the Jesuits.

    The article is in an e-zine but I do not know of a plain text.

    This still shows up as the location of Bangalore ULT. Here is the list of ten or so Lodges he personally opened worldwide. Or here it currently is in Bangalore with numerous Hindu and a few Buddhist schools.

    Bangalore is not that far from Madras, which means it is really far from Kalimpong. Exactly how that may have suited the Wadias having an interest in Buddhism, I cannot tell.

    We are not sure what Buddhist manuscripts they had, but, Theosophy turned out to be the resource for the current Lakshmi Tantra:

    My translation
    is based entirely on the Sanskrit text edited by Pandit V. Krishnama-
    charya and published in the Adyar Library Series, no. 87. I have not
    used any manuscript of the Laksmi Tantra. Therefore, whenever I
    mention the text or the editor’s commentary on it, I refer to
    Krishnamacharya’s edition. Although I have studied the only other
    publication of this text, printed in I elugu and published at Mysore
    m 1888, I have not based my translation upon it since Krishnama-
    charya has utilized it in his edition.

    Adyar was started from the collection of Olcott 1886.

    It is massive and they will not even post the contents. From another location, we are able to find Sanatkumara Samhita of the Pancaratra Agama. This means a practice based on Mars.

    Lakshmi Tantra is mentioned on a survey of Birch Bark:

    Birch bark is still used in some parts of India and Nepal for writing sacred mantras. This practice was first mentioned c. 8th or 9th century CE, in the Lakshmi Tantra.

    I would not say it is entirely correct, since they have overlooked mantric materials that are in the Gilgit manuscripts. However that is telling us that the original Lakshmi Tantra is quite old, compared to a presumably recent manuscript at Adyar--or, rather, it was a published Sanskrit translation from Telugu, now made into English. If you just get this one book, you may not need the other 12,000 that will not even be catalogued anytime soon. Since this is a private collection without the resources of a university or government, maybe it is ok.

    Finding more Europeans showing up at Kalimpong, we might be aware of Sangharaksita:

    While these volumes provide a fascinating overview of his life and interactions in Kalimpong, the information in them must be treated critically due to their genre, Sangharak****a’s privileged position as a white Buddhist in a newly post-colonial society, and the lack of other sources to confirm or challenge some of his arguments and representations.

    I have seen that he did some innovations for convenience's sake, which is the kind of thing we are trying to avoid. He is not quite as ludicrous as perhaps someone like Rawson, however the resurgence of Buddhism around Bombay appears to be more of a caste-rejection socio-political movement with a few Buddhist phrases mixed in. We don't want to water anything down. And so I would kind of keep him at arm's length as merely introductory.

    Sophia Wadia is also quite famous.

    I cannot recall if she discussed mysticism or occultism.

    If Wadia was not successful with Dion Fortune or others in England, here we see an English person (Sangharaksita) who at least "tried". He went to Kalimpong in 1950 and was friends with Lama Anagarika Govinda (German), who had met the same tulku:

    Domo Geshe Rinpoche (1866-1936)

    Wiki omits:

    At the age of 8, he was admitted to the Tashi Lhunpo Monastery. He was ordained in the presence of His Holiness Panchen Rinpoche and was offered the name Ngawang Kelsang.

    Presumably after being at Tashi Lhunpo until age twenty-eight or 1894:

    ...he left the monastery and meditated for 12 years in various caves and retreats in the mountain wilderness of Southern Tibet.

    Domo Geshe Rinpoche was the first of the Tibetan lamas to go on pilgrimage repeatedly to the Buddhist holy sites in India.

    He represents full immersion in what HPB and the Mahatmas were getting at, and, moving in kind of the opposite direction, is given the very same thing:

    A patron from Darjeeling offered him a retreat house at Ghoom Yiga Chöling Monastery and requested him to take care of the monastery. Rinpoche enlarged it and built another famous two-storey Maitreya Buddha statue. In 1919 Tashi Chöling Monastery in Kurseong, near Darjeeling, was completed and consecrated by Geshe Rinpoche, and Tharpa Chöling Monastery in Kalimpong was finished in 1922.

    After his passing in 1936, Dungkar Gonpa requested the Central Tibetan government for permission to embalm the body of Domo Geshe Rinpoche. At the time, only Je Tsong Khapa, the Dalai Lamas, and the Panchen Lamas customarily embalmed and sealed in large stupas. In granting permission, the Regent Reting Rinpoche said, "In Southern Tibet, including Sikkim, etc., Domo Geshe Rinpoche's activities were exactly like those of Je Tsong Khapa. In accordance, we will allow Rinpoche's body to be preserved."

    He was not only spreading Gelug monasteries around the trans-Himalaya but was also doing so with the Ghantapada lineage, Demchog or Chakrasamvara-Vajravarahi tantra:

    It is said that on the circumambulation path around Tashi Lhunpo Monastery an emanation of Tara advised him that it was time to seek his root Guru. Eventually, he found his root guru in Rangjung Lama Lobsang Zopa from whom he received many teachings and initiations. When the Guru conferred upon him the great empowerment of the five-deity Heruka Chakrasamvara mandala of the Ghantapada Tradition (Demchog Trilbu Lha-nga) in Milarepa's temple at Lapchi, the mandala and deity actually manifested and entrusted him with the future of the Demchog Tantra.

    Anagarika founded Arya Maitreya Mandala 1933:

    The order's foundation was inspired by a Lama of the Gelugpa Tradition, Lama Ngawang Kalsang (aka Tomo Geshe Rinpoche), who was Lama Govinda's teacher. His next body founded the Dungkar Gonpa Society 1976, New York (White Conch).

    Lama Zopa went to the first White Conch. He has a personal story of time spent around Kalimpong.

    As for Alexandra David-Neel:

    Lama Kazi Dawa Samdup accompanied Alexandra David-Néel to Kalimpong, where she met with the 13th Dalai Lama in exile, 1912.

    She then spent around four years training in yogic meditation at nearby Lachen.

    Almost everyone else is writing books of greater or lesser value. She actually went and did the practice and got remarkable results. She was a Theosophist and Anarchist and also met Bhaskarananda Saraswati, advisor to the Maharaja of Benares, which we mentioned before as significant towards Theosophy. She also met the Panchen Lama.

    Yogi Chen lived in Kalimpong, India, from 1947 until 1972, and he is not so bad. He frequently speaks in terms of successful yoga practice.

    Magic and Mystery in Tibet is David-Neel's principal autobiography.

    Those two accomplished at least some of the intended practices.

    It is interesting, and again sort of odd. Particularly this area, Sikkhim, and North or Northwestern Bengal. This used to be outside of India. The Bengalese lost most of their own ancient history, and have to retrieve it from Nepal. And then we see at Kalimpong this mixture of Tibetans and Europeans. Sophia was Columbian. None of them are exactly Indian Buddhists. However the very area where they are standing was finally attached to India by someone who was:

    King Ramapala (reigned 1077–1130 AD)

    That is where we will find the real system that HPB, Koothoomi, and Hodgson refer to as Nepalese "Swabhavikas".

    As an individual, myself spending 20-30 years looking at Buddhism in Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, Theravada, Thai Forest, etc., this again is like a massive encyclopedia with numerous different views. It is like an Aristotelian method, i. e., looking at a bunch of tiny little parts with no idea how to find a pattern. Ramapala is very precise. Nepal was never exterminated.

    Nor does it really expand, as in India there is now the Nyingma Namdroling in Karnataka.

    Noticeably more Kagyu:

    March 4, 2023

    Thaye Dorje, His Holiness the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa, spent four days in West Bengal, visiting various projects (Chalsa, Rohini, Cedar Inn, Soreng, Karma Shedrup Ling,) and educational institutes (Diwakar Buddhist School, Karmapa Center of Education, Diwakar Buddhist Academy).

    The second factor against multiple languages is that Ramapala's system is still based in Indian classics, it is not much different from Hinduism and the Puranas. In this sense, HPB was more accurate and reliable. The normal mode of higher education in classical India would have involved a few of the Puranas and other Sanskrit works, and Buddhism would have been a top layer over it. In fact, you could approach the universities that were staffed by Buddhists, and, if you just wanted to get skills in trades, they would teach you that; if you wanted to learn the Brahmanical sciences, they would teach you that. Even if most of the residents were monks, they were encouraged if not required to run businesses, and to buy and sell property.

    That was the type of situation which was mostly eradicated by the Mughals.

    Same thing that had students from China, Arabia, Greece, and Rome.

    One of the mistakes I have seen is the belief that a Buddhist text was transmitted to China very early, ca. 100-200. On further inspection, it turns out to be works on math and astronomy.

    Most math was developed in relation to the stars.

    We have seen something about Spica, and Virgo is unusually important.

    Considering a fresh look at Virgil, here is a slightly fuller rendering of the Ecologue:

    Quote The last era of Cumaean song is now arrived and the grand series of ages begins afresh. Now the Virgin Astraea returns, and the reign of Saturn recommences. Now a new progeny descends from the celestial realms. Do thou, chaste Lucina, smile propitious to the infant Boy who will bring to a close the present Age of Iron, and introduce throughout the whole world the Age of Gold. . . . He shall share the life of Gods and shall see heroes mingled in society with Gods, himself to be seen by them and all the peaceful world. . . . Then shall the herds no longer dread the huge lion, the serpent also shall die, and the poison’s deceptive plant shall perish. Come then, dear child of the Gods, great descendant of Jupiter! . . . The time is near. See, the world is shaken with its globe saluting thee: the earth, the regions of the sea, and the heavens sublime.

    So this refers to a descendant of Jupiter (Thor). In Revelation 22:16, Jesus is a descendant of the Morning Star (Venus-Lucifer).

    From her eighty pages on Pistis Sophia, HPB refers to the Nychthemeron, and eventually to Virgo, the Sixth Sign:

    It will be noticed that the first and last of the female Aeôns of the Dodecad, are respectively PISTIS and SOPHIA. The Soul was the one subject, and the knowledge of the Soul the one object of all the ancient Mysteries. In the “Fall” of PISTIS-SOPHIA, and her rescue by her Syzygy, JESUS, we see the ever-enacted drama of the suffering and ignorant Personality, which can only be saved by the immortal Individuality, or rather by its own yearning towards IT.

    The Virgin of Light. In the Chaldean cosmogony, Ana signifies the “invisible heaven”, the Heavenly Mother of the terrestrial sea: or esoterically Akasa, the mother of the Astral Light. Now Anaitis is one of the names of Kali, the female aspect. Sakti or Syzygy of Siva. She is also called the Annapãrna and Kanya, the Virgin. Her mystery name is Uma-Kanya, the “Virgin of Light.” (The Secret Doctrine I,91, 92.)

    In the Egyptian and other cosmogonies, the first septenary group of emanating potencies is called the “Virgins of Light” and is represented collectively by the six-pointed star; this star “refers to the six Forces or Powers of Nature. the six planes, principles, etc., etc., all synthesized by the seventh, or the central point in the Star.” (The Secret Doctrine, I, 125).

    On reference to Table VI in the Commentary, it will be seen that there are seven Virgins of Light, all aspects of the one Virgin. Now there are, as of everything else, seven aspects, planes or principles of virgin matter, corresponding to the seven principles of man, from the pure, divine Akasa, to the terrestrial Astral Light, the sin-laden atmosphere of our earth. These are the septenary leaves of the Book of the Recording Angel, Le Livre de la Conscience, whither are instantly transferred the deeds, words and THOUGHTS of every minute of our lives, the Karmic record of each imprisoned soul.

    The ancients did know of twelve, but viewed these signs differently from ourselves. They took neither Virgo nor Scorpio singly into consideration, but regarded them as two in one, since they were made to refer directly and symbolically to the primeval dual man and his separation into sexes. During the re-formation of the Zodiac, Libra was added as the twelfth sign, though it is simply an equilibrating sign, at the turning-point––the mystery of separated man.

    The septenary division of the four parts of the lunar phases is as old as the world, and originated with the people who reckoned time by the lunar months. The Hebrews never used it, for they counted only the seventh day, the Sabbath, though the second chapter of Genesis seems to speak of it. Till the days of the Caesars there is no trace of a week of seven days among any nation save the Hindus. From India it passed to the Arabs, and reached Europe with Christianity. The Roman week consisted of eight days, and the Athenian of ten. Thus one of the numberless contradictions and fallacies of Christendom is the adoption of the Indian septenary week of the lunar reckoning and the preservation at the same time of the mythological names of the planets.

    In her Instructions, she gives the shorthand way of arranging the week, which is simply to count "every fourth planet". This is correct but ambiguous towards the details. I cannot even remember if I got these from Apollonius or Hermes or somewhere in Chaldea. From a reply in Valencia:

    We owe the current order to Dio Cassius, a Christian historian of the 3rd century. According to Cassius, astrologists ascribed the 24 hours of each day of the week to the seven wandering stars in a cyclical sequence.

    Apollonius went to India ca. 40-60, and received from Iarchas, seven planetary rings.

    It gets closer in Origins of the Planetary Week:

    The week as known today is the result of the merging of two different cultural traditions: the Jewish, biblical week and the planetary week of astrological origin. Although the idea of dividing the days of the year into cycles of seven days and of naming each of these days reaches far back into biblical antiquity, the seven-day week as a structure of time reckoning was in fact devised in the early Roman Imperial period. In the course of the first two centuries CE the Jewish and astrological traditions gradually converged to create a single, standardised seven-day week.

    Silver statuette of the goddess Fortuna supporting a stand on which rest seven busts
    representing the planetary deities of the week. From Mâcon, France, c. 150-250 CE:

    The earliest mention of the generally accepted explanation for the order of the planets within the week in the literary sources is by the Alexandrian astrologer Vettius Valens (mid-2nd century CE), followed a half-century later by the historian Cassius Dio. The theory is based on the role of the seven planets as rulers of hours. The week was mapped out in 168 hours; the seven planets (in the so-called Chaldean order) were assigned serially to the 24 hours of the day, and then to the 168 hours of the week, the planet assigned to the first hour of each day becoming the ruler of that particular day.

    In fact, this concept is attested at least a half-century before Vettius Valens in a fragmentary inscription from the area of Potenza Picena (ancient Potentia) in central Italy, near the Adriatic coast.

    The Jews start on Saturday and just count to seven for the next Sabbath.

    The Indian and Western systems start on Sunday.

    This is the design. We want to keep the candelabra shape in mind:

    The Sun is in the center. On one arm of the candelabra are the long-period planets in increasing order. On the other side are the short-period planets in increasing order. The physical appearance would be:

    Saturn Jupiter Mars [Sun] Moon Mercury Venus

    The week then begins with the Sun, and you dissassemble the unit and lay the arms in line like this, in "Chaldean order":

    Sun [Mars Jupiter Saturn] [Moon Mercury Venus]

    Starting with the Sun, you then assign planetary rulers to the Hours. Mars rules the second hour, Jupiter the third, and as you go round and keep repeating, the seven planets are not divisible into twenty-four hours of the day. You can do three sets, but then instead of going to twenty-five, it is a new day with a different ruler.

    So the equivalent to twenty-fifth hour or next day is as if this short list was shifted four places. So if you just repeat the phrase as needed, it essentially goes:

    Sun...1, 2, 3, Moon...1, 2, 3, Mars...1, 2, 3, Mercury...1, 2, 3, Jupiter...1, 2, 3, Venus...1, 2, 3, Saturn.

    Those are the days of the week in Latin, Germanic, and Oriental cultures.

    If you ever wondered why the days of the week are in some weird order, that is why. If not, that is still why. If you write out the whole weekly cycle of 168 hours, that is still how it works.

    The Tropical system of nailing the Equinox in place does this so that the Caesars, Julius and Augustus, will always have their months in the high summer. They very flimsily displaced the seventh through tenth months of the numerical system, which as we see that sept-, oct-, nov-, and dec- are now in the ninth through twelfth positions.

    The sequence of rotation through the seven planets is almost buried, almost all the information in the world says "these are the names" and that's it. The lack of this information is Judaicism or we do not know why they just say seven and repeat on the day of Saturn. It is not the shape of the candelabra that is unfamiliar to them. The Gnostic texts show a complex array of Emanations evolving through geometry and so on. Because this involves the descent of Sophia--and this is acceptable in Orthodoxy as well--I think this is relatively close to the Buddhist Prajnaparamita.

    If there is a type of Crucified Jesus who is on the Wheel of Time, and, his Redemption is by, with, or through her, that could also be somewhat similar.

    Astrology is a subjective experience of Time, and the Fixed Cross always means for example the sign Taurus. The constellation Taurus does not move. The Equinox no longer occurs when the Sun is in the sign Taurus. Why would anyone worry about that?

    Mundane time seems to be a Jewish shell hidden in an imaginary Aries chasing the glory of Caesar.

    That's not very natural or is less like what I ordinarily perceive.

    What I see is more like day-to-day increments of the Moon. And so the use of a Lunar Calendar is just the ongoing count of these lunations. About seven days makes the moon change by a quarter. So there are approximately four sevens per month, which is why that fits.

    3102 B. C. E. was not a total close conjunction of everything, but it was like midnight for the clock hands.

    The Mahabharata however is really not even about Krishna, it is about Yuddhisthira, who vanquishes all trials while losing his closest comrades, even on the way to heaven.

    To even begin to understand it, you have to accept a different version of the Underworld, even hell itself. Not only does it have fine architecture and landscaping, there are plenty there who are well-to-do. It is such that in certain regions are areas of inescapable punishment. But one of the most important tenets is with Prahlada, a Demon who devoted himself to holiness.

    HPB said that almost every line in the Mahabharata and Ramayana was magical. That may not be the worst exaggeration.

    And so it is possible that within Esoteric Christianity are all these Astrological symbols and legends attached to the person of Jesus. What seems more likely is that they were already in use with Hercules. We are of the view that Greek Heracles is a cognate of Sanskrit Hari Kula, or Vishnu's family. Krishna's brother is Balarama, "mighty or strong" Rama, and, Harikula.

    Tibet does not use Indian Astrology, nor does it have quite the same history with Greece.

    Indian Buddhism is completely filled with Indian Astrology.

    In Nepal, Saptavara is the Seven Days of the Week, however, it has over-written the normal Hindu deities with Buddhist ones. In several cases, there is a plausible reason to do so. But, perhaps in pure contrariness to the Jewish Sabbath, for Saturn or Saturday, they have actually evoked a new deity.

    In the records, we can turn to the human lineage, and easily see a passage from India to Tibet:

    Jetari, Vajrasana Senior & Junior, Bari Lotsawa Rinchen Drag, Sachen Kunga Nyingpo

    And these figures are already well-known.

    Our word "Planet" means "to wander". In India, the planets do not really have a physical name, although it is a verb:

    Nine grahas (Navagrahas) are used. The Nine Planets of Vedic Astrology or Jyotiṣa are the forces that capture or eclipse the mind and the decision making of the human being-thus the term 'Graha'. When the Grahas are active in their Daśās or periodicities they are particularly empowered to direct the affairs of the person or the inanimate being as the case may be. Even otherwise, Grahas are always busy capturing us in some way or other, for better or for worse.

    When it is you doing it, internally or subjectively, in Buddhism, it is among the worst sins:

    Grāha (ग्राह) refers to “grasping”

    So when it comes to Saturday, we are given a deity with no Hindu or Buddhist antecedent:

    Grahamatrika Mahavidya

    It says she is the Mother of the Grahas, and by calling her a "Mahavidya" it especially means that she is an aspect of Wisdom that only comes from and only exists within her particular practice. I can try to think for myself if perhaps this role makes her similar to Goddess Ganga or Virgo, but for the most part, to get results from her would require some preliminary experience like having a basic understanding about the temperaments of the different planets.

    Here is a sculpture of her from Gyantse in the 1400s:

    If that represents the era of the Medici Renaissance, then, when printing takes off in the 1600s, she, and the other planetaries, become household standards in Nepal.

    Gyanste is not that far from Shigatse, the area of the Panchen Lama. Everything around him represents different sects. The area of the Dalai Lama at Lhasa could be said to be in a Gelug fortress:

    Having mentioned a type of Head Master, we will find he is inseparable from Bengal, even from general information on Seats of Learning:

    A word about the syllabus in these old schools. Some of them confined themselves to teaching the bare texts of the Vedas; they were mere ‘Veda pathasalas.’ Others included one or more of the fourteen supplementary ‘Vidyas’ or branches of studies. These included the six ‘Vedangas’–Phonetics, Grammar, Exegetics, Prosody, Astronomy and Ritual. Besides these, there was the special ‘adhyatma Vidya,’ which was vouchsafed by the Guru only to a loving disciple who approached him with reverence, service, and frequent questionings with a view to clear his doubts and solve his problems.

    The student belonged to the ‘Gotra’ of his teacher. The early Indians solved the problems arising from co-education by prohibiting marriage between members of the same ‘Gotra’ or ‘pravara.’ This helped the boys and girls to look upon one another as brothers and sisters and to preserve their ‘Brahmacharya’ or vow of chastity. Not only did the boys and girls study together but they had women teachers also. Sanskrit has two words, ‘upadhyaya’ and ‘upadhyayini,’ to denote the wife of a teacher and a woman teacher respectively.

    Acharya Jetari, who graduated from this University and obtained his diploma as ‘Pandita’ from king Mahapala himself, was an authority on ‘tantras’ and ‘sutras.’

    According to the current Dhaka Monastery:

    Atish Dipankar was born in 980 A.D at a village Bajrajogini, Bikarampur, Munshigonj, Dhaka. His father's name was King Kallyanasree and mother's name was Queen Prabhabati. Kalyanasree was the local ruler appointed by the Pala Kings. He was pious and qualified. He sent his son Chandragarbha (Atisha Dipankar's early name) to Pandit Jetari (JETARI) who was the resident of Barendra (present Rajshahi).

    Rajsahi is the location of Somapura Vihara.

    When we turn to pre-dynastic regions of India, in many cases, it is not always the same kind of King:

    The Republics of Ancient India (600 B.C.-400 A.D.)

    In the sixth century B.C., we find a large number of states in northern India and many of these were not ruled by kings but formed petty republics or oligarchies. That was the age of the Buddha and therefore, the republican states of this period have been called ‘Republics of the age of the Buddha’. These were the most ancient existing states not only of India but of the world and, so India is also one of those countries which can feel proud of having experimented with the republican form of constitution in ancient times.

    While the existence of republican states in India, at that time, has been accepted by all scholars, they are divided on the form of their organisation. There is no unanimity among scholars regarding the method of election and qualifications of voters. The Buddhist sources provide sufficient information regarding the then republican state of the Lichchhavis, yet the scholars are not unanimous regarding its form and constitution.

    It seems to span the range from constitutional monarchy, to popularly-elected bicameral legislature.

    In some cases, they go so far as to write a paper on a republican form of government:

    Buddha was full of admiration for
    the internal organisation of the vajjian confederacy and he took a number of the political
    practices and methods prevalent among the Licchavis into his religious sangha. Moreover, its
    frequent meetings and ground arrangements made the Buddha to compare it with the assembly of
    the Tavatimsa Gods. In Santiparva, Bhimsa said to Yudhisthira that ganas united can attain
    material prosperity and outsiders also seek the alliance of confederate entities.

    Above all, the qualities that added to the strength of the ancient republics was
    their high sense of justice. Equality before law and easy approach to the law courts was
    considered to be the bulwark of individual liberty. Indian republics made a remarkable
    advancement in the field of law on administration of justice. The administration of law and
    justice to the Licchavis gana has no other parallel in the history of the ancient world. Bhisma
    says that in criminal offences, justice should be administered through the President. The same
    eagerness for right administration of law and justice is shown by the Buddhist sangha which
    defined the supremacy of law and not that of a person.

    They had a Revolutionary Oath:

    A great reason of the political strength was that a republic was nation-in-arms. The whole community was the army.

    The real danger is more internal then external because enemy can be suppressed,
    vanquished and kept out by a well balanced policy. But the actual danger is the internal policies
    created by disgrunted and disloyal sections of the organisation. They alone form the clog in the
    wheel of the ganas's progress. A gana divided against itself cannot be saved by military power or
    wealth, just as Athen in ancient Greece, divided against itself could not be saved by a wall.
    Bhimsa warns time and again that internal dissension is the real danger to a republic.

    The term for republican government is Ganasangha, and, I think, what they mean is not anti-monarchial, but, anti-hereditary monarch:

    According to the Buddhist sources, key characteristics of the gana sangha seem to include a monarch (raja), and a deliberative assembly (sangha). Elected by the gana sangha, the monarch apparently always belonged to a family of the noble class of Kshatriya Varna. The monarch coordinated his activities with the assembly; in some states, he did so with a council of other nobles. The assembly met regularly, and would discuss all major state decisions. This body also had full financial, administrative, and judicial authority. Other officers, who rarely receive any mention, obeyed the decisions of the assembly.

    Scholars differ over how best to describe the gana sangha governments, and the vague, sporadic quality of the evidence allows for wide disagreements. Some emphasize the central role of the assemblies and thus tout them as democracies; other scholars focus on the upper-class domination of the leadership and possible control of the assembly and see an oligarchy or an aristocracy.

    In actuality, it may have not been much different from the American situation. Whatever may have been the benefits of "citizen" did not apply equally to persons of all castes. There was still slavery. The Licchavi's confederation was centered at Vaisali. Without knowing any of the specific laws or occurrences then all we can really say was there was some degree of voting.

    Berzhin writes Buddha's life as the clash of two Kings and a Republic and says:

    To the west of Kosala, in present-day Pakistani Punjab, was Gandhara (Sa-‘dzin, Skt. Ghandhara), which was a satrapy of the Persian Achaemenid Empire. In its capital, Takkasila (rDo-‘jog, Skt. Takshashila), was the most famous university of that time. There, Greek and Persian ideas and cultures mingled with their contemporary Indian counterparts.

    Resembling Virgo, one can almost read the story of Queen Gandhari in two scenes:

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Amazing how the ancient spiritual knowledge keeps manifesting in different forms, through different cultures, through different ages. Breathtaking!

    Did HPB or the masters ever make predictions that's relevant to todays geopolitics?

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Posted by pounamuknight (here)
    Did HPB or the masters ever make predictions that's relevant to todays geopolitics?

    Not quite.

    I never really tried to bring this up, so, I cannot recall where it came from, but there was a prediction that Europe would suffer a minor cataclysm--i. e. the cumulative karma of its path leading to coastal upheavals and mass casualties and so on, however, this was said to be around 8,000 years towards the future.

    Geo-physically, yes, again I forget the name but HPB said that a fault line would be found around South Africa, and it was.

    She made another prediction that sounds an awful lot like the Nag Hammadi Gospels discovered around the 1940s.

    There may have been another article about a great war, she was describing one of the Germans as if they were the reincarnation of Clovis, Bismark probably.

    More of her comments seemed to be cutting edge, i. e. such as after elaborately praising some of the American Founders, in the 1870s "no one cares about America any more".

    I think the farmers may have, and she just wasn't visiting the farmers.

    The more predictive vein may lie with the Mongolian Buddhists:

    Since the days of Catherine the Great (1729–1796), the Romanov rulers had been considered by Russian lamaists as the incarnation of White Tara, a female bodhisattva typically associated with Buddhist tantric practice...

    In 1767, one of the most authoritative lamas of the region, Damba-Darzha Zaiaiev, was elected as a deputy to the Legislative Commission and visited Moscow and Saint Petersburg. There, he had two audiences with the then empress of Russia, Catherine the Great, who benevolently agreed to include the faith of lamas in the list of tolerated confessions...

    The same Panchen as met by Alice Cleather:

    In 1901, Thubten Chökyi Nyima, the Ninth Panchen Lama (1883–1937), was visited by Agvan Dorzhiev. Although Dorzhiev only stayed for two days at Tashilhunpo, he received some secret teachings from the Panchen Lama, as well as readings of the Prayer of Shambhala, written by Lobsang Palden Yeshe, the Sixth (or Third) Panchen Lama, concerning the Buddhist kingdom of Shambhala, which were of great importance to Dorzhiev's developing understanding of the Kalachakra ('Wheel of Time') tantric teachings.

    Agvan Dorzhiev:

    He was a study partner and close associate of the 13th Dalai Lama, a minister of his government, and his diplomatic link with the Russian Empire. Among Tibetans he earned a legendary status, while raising the British Empire's significant anxiety of Russian presence in Tibet at the final stage of the Great Game.

    HPB's cousin from a detailed article on Buddhism in Trans-Baikal:

    In 1905, a group of Buriat political activists submitted a petition to the then prime minister of the Russian government Sergey Vitte...

    There was nothing that forced Catherine to accept them as decent human beings, and, some of it probably seemed quite weird to her, but it got put on the same platform as Islam or anything else. HPB gives a very good story on the Narodnaya Volya who carried out the world's first suicide bombing against Tsar Alexander II in 1881. Then from similar movements, the Tsars are terminated.

    When we look at some of the issues regarding Monarchy or not, we have not really raised the question of how much a monarch "owns", but, concerning Private Property:

    In England, "property" came to have a legal definition in the 17th century. Private property defined as property owned by commercial entities emerged with the great European trading companies of the 17th century.

    It was undefined prior to being encoded for commercialism? Ok. Well, such property was already of consequence in the unusual form of Celtic Law:

    Celtic law is thus a stateless form of law like most customary law forms. "... the professional jurists were consulted by parties to disputes for advice as to what the law was in particular cases, and these same men often acted as arbitrators between suitors. They remained at all times private persons, not public officials; their functioning depended upon their knowledge of the law and the integrity of their judicial reputations."

    That was based on kinship. It wasn't "a country". If a judgment was given, then the community would retaliate on you. This kind of self-policing--that the People are the Militia--was the form of the original American States, as well as the Republics in Buddha's era. In India, those got taken back over by Monarchs, who were supposed to have been similar to the European Enlightened Monarchs in the principles of Buddhist kingship:

    ...kingship in traditional Buddhist societies was connected with the Sangha as a field of merit: the king took an exemplary role as a donor to the Sangha, and the Sangha legitimated the king as a leader of the state. The monarchy facilitated the Sangha, and was needed to legitimise and strengthen their right to rule. In times of famine or other hardship, it was traditionally believed that the king was failing, and the king would typically perform meritorious activities on a grand scale. In this way the king would be able to improve the kingdom's conditions, through his "overflow karma" (Walters).

    which is not terribly different than an Indian Raja:

    ...the king was to make everything and everyone prosper. If they were not prospering, the king was not fulfilling his dharma. He had to carry out his duties as laid down in the science of government and "not act at his sweet will."

    "Raja" is similar to most languages, such as "Rex" for a monarch of the Roman kings:

    ...were all elected by the people of Rome to serve for life, with none of the kings relying on military force to gain or keep the throne.

    But the actual word "king" does not fit the worldly vocabulary since it is solely derived from Germanic kings:

    The office was received hereditarily, but a new king required the consent of the people before assuming the throne. All sons of the king had the right to claim the throne...

    That is starting to sound like Clovis.

    Buddha, and most reports on, the Indian Republics, said their major weakness would be from within, if there were quarrels instead of agreement. The same would be about true in the American Revolution--you are with us or against us.

    This is also said by the author of The Republic, Plato:

    The platonic Republic might be related to the idea of "a tightly organized community of like-minded thinkers", like the one established by Pythagoras in Croton.

    That's what we don't have now, we probably didn't have it in 1870. We don't have a Nation, that is, a culture.

    If not, the expectations of Buddha or Plato is that the state will not thrive, at best.

    But it is not following the recommendations of either. For example, in The Republic, the members of government, the Guardians, do not have any Private Property.

    Noting that Port Piraeus has been recently upgraded by the Chinese and pumping out more than five times its previous volume, Plato's main concern is not exactly property, but Justice:

    The very opening of Plato’s Republic teaches attentive readers about the relationship between justice and private property. Socrates, goes “down to the Piraeus” to pray and investigate a brand new festival being held there. The Piraeus booms with commercial activity and maintains an extraordinary level of civic diversity. Not only do the citizens exchange different goods and services, they also worship unique divinities.

    would it really be just to return a borrowed weapon to a maniac?

    ...perfect justice rejects a totalizing view of private property rights. There are instances, including insanity, that would justify the confiscation of private property for the protection of society.

    The Republic, however, posits that happiness consists not in the enjoyment of property or material goods, but in virtue of the soul.

    From what we have seen, "pursuit of happiness" in the American documents is an over-write from a draft that said "pursuit of property".

    I did not notice much legalism, but, an esoteric doctrine in Mahabharata Santi Parva 108:

    The father is said to be the Garhapatya fire, the mother, the Dakshina fire, and the preceptor is that fire upon which libations are poured. These three fires are, of course, the most eminent.

    Justice, just for basic Astrology, is like Virgo and Libra.

    Drawing again from Pistis Sophia, this is a quite large work where Sophia descends from the Thirteenth Aeon into Twelve Aeons, losing her light and power and falling to:

    The Underworld (See Table I) has three divisions, Orcus, Chaos and the Outer Darkness. In the allegorical descriptions of the fate of sinning souls, in other words, the fate of the lower principles after death, we are informed that in Orcus (lit. a prison or enclosure), souls are tormented with Fire, in Chaos with Fire, Darkness and smoke; and in the Caligo Externa with added Hail, Snow, Ice, and cruel Cold.

    It is a Christian work which shows Jesus redeeming her towards the end, and, quoting the original:

    [PS 179-181] [And Philip came forward and explained the Hymn of PISTIS-SOPHIA by reciting the one hundred and seventh Psalm (verses 1-21).]

    This is an extensive work where HPB adds in correspondences from the Indian Puranas. It is already difficult because it has dealt with geometry and multiple shapes, then it is a massive amount of Greco-Christian doctrine, which seems to be mostly employed as a vehicle for the Indian material. Then what we get finally after Sophia has made it through:

    This Nirvana however, is a state outside of space and time, as we know them, and therefore can be reached now and within, by very holy men; Naljors and Arhats, who can attain to the highest degree of the mystical contemplation, called in the East Samadhi. For then shall the “Gates of the Treasure of the Great Light” be opened, as described in our text, and the Nirvanic heights be crossed by the “Pilgrim.”

    Here, we simply have been given the Tibetan term for "yogi", which probably would be better written as "Naljorpa". But we get the effect. This highest state of Sophia has been interpreted as Samadhi.

    But I don't know how effective it is for anyone. I have not hear anyone express anything about the uplifting of Sophia or things like this. I am not sure what was achieved by the benefit of the doubt that Hermeticism might be more suitable for a lot of English readers. One time I had numerous meetings with a Rosicrucian. I couldn't get where he was coming from or what he was getting from it.

    Yoga as a system of Samadhi seems a lot more straightforward. In a lot of ways it is the same as thinking of Jesus at the center of Four Apostles. But in a larger sense it is more like Ezekiel's Creatures and the Royal Stars, much older and widely known to astrologers. Starting from here, in the view of Sidereal Astrology, one would say yes the Equinox is changing, but--Aries isn't doing anything. What are you talking about?

    This deviation happened shortly before the Dark Age and so on.

    Instead, we have a fixed Point of Aries:

    Aries (0° Aries or Mesha) is defined by the fixed star Spica.

    It is the Ear of Wheat in Virgo's left hand. And the same star was used to identify precession. Here is a bit more of the fame of Spica:

    Many temples other than the one in Thebes were oriented towards Spica. Some of these temples are:

    The temple of the Sun at Tell el-Amarna 2.000 B.C., two temples at Rhamnus in Greece 1092 – 747 B.C., two temples at Tegea, the goddess Hera’s temples at Olympia 1.445 B.C., the temple of Nike Apteros at Athens 1.130 B.C., and the temple of Diana of the Ephesians 715 B.C.

    Since so many temples were oriented towards Spica, it is an indication that many cultures had knowledge of the precession of the equinoxes much earlier than Hipparchus documented his discovery.

    Spica and the constellation of Virgo, are often associated with Demeter, and Dike, the goddess of justice in ancient Greek culture.

    The Egyptians identified Virgo with the goddess Isis and attributed Spica as Isis’ Lute bearer.

    From HPB on the Zodiac:

    The Sabean doctrine taught that within the double sign Virgo-Scorpio was hidden the explanation of the gradual transformation of the world, from its spiritual and subjective, into the “two-sexed” sublunary state. Conversely the union of these signs into a single entity is said to lead to the destruction of the phenomenal universe.

    In The Secret Doctrine, she knows the exact star chart I made:

    The Persians say that four beautiful stars were placed as guardians at the four corners of the world. Now it so happens that at the commencement of Kali Yuga, 3,000 or 3,100 years before our era, the Eye of the Bull and the Heart of the Scorpion were exactly at the equinoctial points, while the Heart of the Lion and the Southern Fish were pretty near the solstitial points. An observation of the rising of the Pleiades in the evening, seven days before the autumnal equinox, also belongs to the year 3000 before our era.

    That “epoch is the year 3,102 before our era,” he writes. The lunar eclipse arriving just a fortnight after the beginning of the Black Age—it took place in a point situated between the Wheat Ear of Virgo and the star Θ of the same constellation. One of their most esoteric Cycles is based upon certain conjunctions and respective positions of Virgo and the Pleiades (Krittika). Hence, as the Egyptians brought their Zodiac from Southern India and Lankâ, the esoteric meaning was evidently identical. The “three Virgins,” or Virgo in three different positions...

    Those "three" were probably an arbitrary and wrong guess by Mackey.

    Elsewhere, echoing Virgil:

    Astræa, the Goddess of Justice, is the last of the deities to forsake the Earth, when the Gods are said to abandon it and to be taken up again into heaven by Jupiter. But, no sooner does Zeus carry from Earth Ganymedes—the object of lust, personified—than the Father of the Gods throws down Astræa on the Earth again, on which she falls upon her head. Astræa is Virgo, the constellation of the Zodiac.

    On cataclysms:

    ...about 31,000 years ago Aldebaran was in conjunction with the vernal equinoctial point. The part assigned to Taurus, even in Christian Mysticism, is too well known to need repetition. The famous Orphic Hymn on the great periodical cataclysm divulges the whole Esotericism of the event. Pluto, in the Pit, carries off Eurydice, bitten by the Polar Serpent. Then Leo, the Lion, is vanquished. Now, when the Lion is “in the Pit,” or below the South Pole, then Virgo, as the next sign, follows him, and when her head, down to the waist, is below the southern horizon—she is inverted. On the other hand, the Hyades are the rain or Deluge constellations; and Aldebaran—he who follows, or succeeds the daughters of Atlas, or the Pleiades—looks down from the eye of Taurus. It is from this point of the ecliptic that the calculations of the new cycle were commenced. The student has to remember also, that when Ganymedes—Aquarius—is raised to heaven—or above the horizon of the North Pole—Virgo or Astræa, who is Venus-Lucifer, descends head downwards below the horizon of the South Pole, or the Pit; which Pit, or the Pole, is also the Great Dragon, or the Flood. Let the student exercise his intuition by placing these facts together; no more can be said.

    And from Subba Row:

    Kanyâ [the sixth sign of the Zodiac, or Virgo] means a virgin, and represents Shakti or Mahâmâyâ. The sign in question is the sixth Râshi or division, and indicates that there are six primary forces in Nature [synthesized by the Seventh]....

    According to her, the Bible is mostly astrological symbolism. According to the Indians, so is the Mahabharata, in similar symbolism, such as one warrior killing another is one star rising when another sets.

    PISTIS-SOPHIA in the beginning thought she could reach the Light of Lights, and so fell into error. Still she is not even yet entirely freed from the bonds of Matter, for the higher she rises, the stronger are the Powers of Projections sent against her, who proceed to change their shapes, so that she now has to struggle against still greater foes which are emanated and directed by the strongest and subtlest Powers of Matter. Thereupon, PISTIS-SOPHIA is surrounded entirely with the Stream of Light and further supported on either hand by Michael and Gabriel, the “Sun” and “Moon.” The “Wings” of the “Great Bird” flutter, the “Winged Globe” unfolds its pinions, preparatory to its flight. For is not the Infinitude of Space “the Nest of the Eternal Bird, the flutter of whose wings produces life”?

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    Default Re: Neo-Platonism vs. Capitalism

    Here is an easy way to identify a rift between the modern mainstream and something contemporaneous with Pythagoras and Buddha:

    We are in a deep theological conflict over Prophet Ezekiel.

    I got this from a user comment on another site, saying it was the number one most dangerous belief. Many of these churches have a strong devotion to the erroneous belief in:

    Gog and Magog

    From Ezekiel 38.

    They have formed the conclusion that Gog is Russia, which means an enemy of Israel, if not being Satan himself. This festered in British Israelism in the 1700s, and there is a quote from a Cardinal converting to Roman Catholicism in 1845, because he felt this movement was taking over the Church of England.

    This belief has no real precursor, aside from there being many other previous interpretations. The egg hatched right there in post-Cromwell's Ultra Zionist nest.

    However if it is originally about "zaphon", this is simply North.

    In one sense, it may also refer to the famous deity Zeus Kasios or Baal Zaphon:

    Due to mount Zaphon’s image as the cosmic mountain par excellence in Northwest-Semitic religions, the name ‘Baal-zaphon’ was transferred to further Baal-sanctuaries outside Ugarit. In the OT Baal-zaphon is a place name in northern Egypt where Israel rested during the exodus (Exod. 14.2, Exod. 9; Num. 33.7).

    There is even an Egyptian Stele found at Ugarit showing an Egyptian worshipping the Levantine deity.

    Mount Aqraa (also called Jabal al-Aqraa, Zaphon in the Bible, and Mount Casius to the Greeks) is a mountain located near the mouth of the Orontes River on the Syrian-Turkish border around 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) north of Ugarit.

    Rising directly from a narrow coastal plain, Jebel Aqra is a mariners' landmark with a long history as a sacred mountain.

    So, we might tend to suspect that Ezekiel spoke in his own context, meaning the immediate north of Israel, this mountain, or perhaps Israel itself as north of Judea. I, personally, would not launch Armageddon on the offhand chance he might have meant modern Russia, considerably far to the north from Israel, as replaced by the British.

    In the 1800s this view was shared with Americans who picked it up with glee. It has simply continued, for instance, Ronald Reagan.

    It is possible the British had a little inspiration:

    According to Brackney (2012) and Fine (2015), the French Huguenot magistrate M. le Loyer's The Ten Lost Tribes, published in 1590, provided one of the earliest expressions of the belief that the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Scandinavian, Germanic, and associated peoples are the direct descendants of the Old Testament Israelites.

    French Israelism:

    The claim became one of the foundational elements for the Priory of Sion hoax created by Pierre Plantard and Philippe de Chérisey in the 1960s, and it was fused with the notion of a Jesus bloodline and popularized in 1982 by the authors of the speculative nonfiction book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, and in 2003 by Dan Brown for his 2003 mystery thriller novel The Da Vinci Code.

    Published in England 1794 Revealed Knowledge:

    In 1793 Brothers declared himself to be the apostle of a new religion. He began to see himself as possessing a special role in the gathering of the Jews back into Palestine, in particular, the "Jews" who were hidden amongst the population of Great Britain. In similarity to modern British Israelists, Brothers asserted that the "hidden Israel" had no notion of its biological lineage and that part of his role would be to teach them of their true identity and lead them to the land of Canaan. Brothers proclaimed himself to be Prince of the Hebrews, literal descendant of the Biblical House of David, and the Nephew of the Almighty, who would rule over Israel until the return of Jesus Christ. Brothers declared he would achieve all this using a rod he had fashioned from a wild rosebush, with which he would perform miracles, as Moses had done.

    He did not single-handedly pull everything off, but, within a relatively brief span of time, thirty or forty years, it has passed the point of no return, as a fever infecting the soul of a nation, it is in there.

    Instead, we are going to look at perhaps more of a Chaldean context because:

    The prophet Ezekiel lived among the Jews who were exiled to Babylon in the 6th century BC.

    And he is much more interesting at the beginning where something happens which may be known as Tetramorph or Four Creatures:

    In magic, I never quite thought of Astrology as being predictive. I have never really used it that way. I took it as mostly subjective, i. e. the Planets and the Signs particularly equate to an individual's consciousness and experience.

    In the outer sense, they are perhaps more like "timers", less like "X happened because Mars was in a place", and more towards "X happened *while* Mars was in a place".

    Although the knowledge of constellations is archaic, the special set called the Zodiac appears to be Chaldean and from the ca. 500s B. C. E., although in a certain sense there were ten signs if Virgo and Scorpio were counted as an esoteric unit.

    From the same Ezekiel, instead of attacking Russia, for example if we look at a newish Astral Science at U-Berlin:

    This research endeavour develops a new account of the emergence, spread and cross-cultural transformations of zodiacal astral science. ZODIAC is the first in-depth, comprehensive study addressing both textual and iconographic sources from different ancient cultures to reveal the strategies that fostered broad acceptance in numerous new contexts: How can we explain the global spread of the cross-cultural phenomenon of the zodiac?

    It is the example where Greece and India are basically the same. I don't know about globally, but these two have equivalent translations for the same Seven Sacred Planets and Twelve Signs.

    Most anyone would assume Greece is likely similar to Egypt. If so, then Egypt must be similar to India. Then if we drift toward the vein of a title like "Isis Unveiled", that was a last-minute publisher's call, since the working title was a little different, it was going to be Isis without Veil or something like that. Either way, the main part of the doctrine is that "veil" is a state of matter, but not in the usual scientific sense. It has ethereal and mental states, and a formless condition. Formless is the goddess alternatively spelled as Neith, Noot, or Nut. Here is what HPB says about a couple of Egyptian deities:


    ...her principal title was Lady of Amentet (the Holy Land or underworld).

    The Greeks identified Hathor with Aphrodite, for she was the patron deity of beauty and joy in life, of artists and their creative work as was the celestial and earthly Venus. Her chief position, however, was goddess of the Underworld, providing the deceased with food and drink.

    Astronomically she was associated with the star Sept (Sothis or Sirius), which rose heliacally on the first day of the Egyptian New Year. When the sun god Ra entered his boat, Hathor went with him and took up her position as a crown upon his forehead.

    Hathor was closely connected with Neith (at Sais), and in Ptolemaic times with Nekhebet, Uatchet, and Bast. “Hathor is the infernal Isis, the goddess pre-eminently of the West or the nether world” (SD 1:400n). Yet this was but the lower aspect of Hathor, Neith, and Isis. Neith, or the celestial Hathor, was one of the most spiritual, recondite, and abstract of all the deities of the Egyptian pantheon, in this sense the celestial womb of light, out of which came in hierarchical procession the world or the cosmos and all in and of it.


    It was ‘Isis in the heaven’ and called Isis-Sothis, for Isis was ‘in the constellation of the dog,’ as is declared on her monuments. ‘The soul of Osiris was believed to reside in a personage who walks with great steps in front of sothis, sceptre in hand and a whip upon his shoulder.’ Sirius is also Anubis, and is directly connected with the ring ‘Pass me not’; it is, moreover, identical with Mithra, the Persian Mystery god, and with Horus and even Hathor, called sometimes the goddess Sothis. Being connected with the Pyramid, Sirius was, therefore, connected with the initiations which took place in it. A temple to Sirius-Sothis once existed within the great temple of Denderah. To sum up, all religions are not, as Dufeu, the French Egyptologist, sought to prove, derived from Sirius, the god-star, but Sirius-Sothis is certainly found in connection with every religion of antiquity...

    This seems to be accepted in Sirius Matters.

    I have had this come up before, and there was discussion about a few Masons and what the Indian Sri Yukteswar thought of it. They were not quite accurate. We are not really trying to get into versions of the 24,000-year Great Year, but, mostly referring to the past few Ages in relation to a larger body of information. Relating the sky to Isis:

    Both Hathor and Isis were linked to the star Spica (in the ancient constellation which was centered around the modern constellation of Virgo) because the star first appeared around harvest time.

    A further link is provided by the fact that when Horus chopped off Isis’ head (because Isis would not strike the fatal blow against her brother Set) she responded by causing the head of a cow (one of the most common forms of Hathor) to grow in its place. She was also associated with Nut who also took the form of a cow and was associated with the sycamore tree.


    Unlike huge temple complexes, which were largely inaccessible to all but the pharaoh and the priestly elite, most Hathor sanctuaries were places where anyone could offer a petition. Hathor’s principal sanctuary was at Dendera, on the edge of the desert between Luxor and Abydos, where it is believed her cult first began. The present ruins date from a temple completed in the first century CE. However, according to inscriptions, the site had already been sacred to Hathor for ten thousand years; the original temple was a mud hut. Dendera was a healing center, the Lourdes of its day. The Egyptians considered it the Navel of the Universe, Earth’s spiritual center.

    At her Temple:

    There is another temple in the Complex as the Temple of the birth of Isis. There is also a sacred lake and an adobe sanatorium (it was used to bathe in the sacred water to obtain the healing of the goddess).

    According to a visitor on the Doors:

    The axis of the temple was oriented towards the north. The place where the star Alpha Draconis appeared, which we now know as the pole star, represents the principle of maternal force, that is, Hathor.

    There is the main door, which served as a reference to record the movements of this star. They then placed stones in the four corners and perimeter of the temple with an outer wall 10 meters high.

    The second door of the temple is oriented towards the place where the star Sirius, the symbol of Isis, ascended. Sirius after being in hiding for 120 days, on June 21 appeared, beginning the summer solstice. Her appearance marked the 40 days in which the Nile overflowed.

    The zodiac shows a map of the previous sky, no less than 650 years before the construction of the zodiac.

    The ideas from "three Virgos" may not be accurate, but it is generally agreed the Zodiac found there was already historical when it was made.

    However she is not singular, there is such a thing as the Hymn of Seven Hathors.

    Taurine and Seven:

    Egyptian texts often speak of the manifestations of the goddess as "Seven Hathors" or, less commonly, of many more Hathors—as many as 362.

    The Seven Hathors were sometimes portrayed as a set of seven cows, accompanied by a minor sky and afterlife deity called the Bull of the West.

    This idea has no textual evidence for them being Cows:

    On temple walls the Hathors are shown suckling the young god, and sometimes the king, with their milk which bestows upon him all the good characteristics of an exemplary ruler, or beating their tambourines to welcome him into the world and wish him well.

    Wallis-Budge gives many details on Seven Hathors and her other forms. Does not seem to be cows. Usually on Egypt, HPB is going to sound almost exactly like anything modern, since Book of the Dead is and was standard. Her difference is outlinking it to the other systems.

    Hathor herself may be a Cow and:

    These Seven Hathors, in Hathor's context as a mother, were said to dress in disguise as young women, and attend the birth of a child, and then one by one announce aspects of his fate. In later centuries, this 7-fold aspect of Hathor was identified as the Pleiades.

    Their Egyptian name, Athurai or Atauria, means stars of Athy--Hathor.

    Hathor (Coptic: Ϩⲁⲑⲱⲣ, Hathōr), also known as Athyr and Hatur (Arabic: هاتور), is the third month of the ancient Egyptian and Coptic calendars.

    It is visually recognizable from the Indian legend, which says the Pleiades suckle the child Mars. Only six of them are said to do it. That is somewhat comparable. The birth is not the same. But India does not really deal with "a" divine birth, since it is more about multiple reincarnations of Vishnu. This is far more intricate and more like a fractal, for instance the Pig incarnation simultaneously stands for the epoch of the cooling of the earth's crust, as well as the pig month of human fetal development.

    Hathor as Cow is as in The Secret Doctrine:

    Hathor, along with the goddess Nut, was associated with the Milky Way Galaxy during the third millennium B.C. when, during the fall and spring equinoxes, it aligned over and touched the earth where the sun rose and fell. The four legs of the celestial cow represented Nut or Hathor could, in one account, be seen as the pillars on which the sky was supported with the stars on their bellies constituting the milky way on which the solar barque of Ra, representing the sun, sailed.

    In that case the four legs are almost the same as the Four Creatures.

    Similar to Nychthemeron (where she uses "u" instead of "y"), HPB says:

    The favorite representation of Nut is of a woman bending so that her body forms a semicircle — a part of the endless circle of space — upon which the stars are portrayed, while her consort, Seb, prostrate beneath her, completes the circle. Again, the solar boat is represented sailing up over the lower limbs, in order to pursue its journey over the day sky; and sailing down her arms to complete its cycle in the night sky.

    The spelling Nut is common and:

    The Book of Nut is a modern title of what was known in ancient times as The Fundamentals of the Course of the Stars. This is an important collection of ancient Egyptian astronomical texts, perhaps the earliest of several other such texts, going back at least to 2,000 BC. Nut, being the sky goddess, plays the primary role in the Book of Nut. The text also tells about various other sky and Earth deities, such as the star deities and the decans deities. The cycles of the stars and planets, as well as time keeping are also covered in the book.

    Shu separates Earth and Sky:

    Another idea from Hathor as the Mother of a Divine Child and due to its rising exactly at midnight:

    Spica is what we call Christmas.

    The "light" that has been given birth is then the sun's northward course.

    Virgin Birth:

    The virgin, with her god-begotten child, the bright star, Spica, represented as an ear of corn (the meaning of the name of the star), was pictured in the heavens from time immemorial. They are present in the Hindu zodiac, at least three thousand years old, and in the ancient Egyptian one. Virgo commences rising at midnight, on the 25 December, with this star in the east in her arms—the star which piloted the wise men.

    Egyptian and African historians agree.

    As another allegory on Virgo:

    In the temple complex at Dendera there was a bas relief zodiac carved in the ceiling and held aloft on four pillars, each of them women; and the constellation Virgo, the maiden, was shown standing upright (lower left quadrant in the image above, behind the Lion).

    A few centuries later the Greeks were mapping the constellations, but now the pillars of the heaven were given to the male giant Atlas, and Virgo was no longer shown standing upright.

    Former cultures experienced the motion of starry worlds as the speaking of their divine beings ~ and the Divine Feminine was shown upright in the sky. Gradually, this ability to hear the speaking of the stars faded ~ when this began to happen, then Virgo, the divine feminine, was shown lying down. Eventually, any notion of relationship between the human being and the divine in starry worlds was lost, so Virgo as a being didn’t matter. This was prophesied by the ancients as the “silencing of the stars” ~ but this was not the final stage for them! It was also prophesied that eventually the pain of being separated from the star knowledge of the sacred feminine would become so intense that humanity would learn once again to speak with the stars!

    I can conceive of that as the general fall and redemption of Sophia, for whom, this--practically identical to "Yoga"--is the core:

    Syzygy /ˈsɪzɪdʒi/ (from Greek Συζυγία "conjunction, yoked together")

    Syzygy, female–male pairings of the emanations known as Aeon (Gnosticism)

    If someone can learn to think like that, then yes, it is pretty similar to the Buddhist Families of Dhyani Buddhas.

    This has the origin of Primordial Sophia as the paired nucleus of Virgo and Scorpio, emanating and descending through multiple similar pairings, and then being re-assembled by, in one teaching, Jesus. We would tend to think this means "the Hero" such as Orpheus or Hercules bear out similar roles. In general, it is probably easier to teach the system as being about The Leader, and then re-enacting it as one's own experience.

    In India, Six is, broadly speaking:

    The sixth day of a lunar fortnight, an epithet of Durgā in the form of Kātyāyanī, the sign of Virgo (Kanyā).

    Or more in-depth, Sister of the Sun, an aspect of Root Matter:

    ...the Vedic fertility goddess of the new moon, Sinivali-Kuhu, and Shri-Lakshmi, the Vedic antecedent of Lakshmi, were gradually fused with the folk-deity Shashthi. This merger created a "new" Shashthi that was associated in various ways with Skanda [Mars].

    An early textual reference dating to 8th–9th century BCE relates Shashthi to the six Krittikas who nurtured and nursed Skanda.

    That represents approximately the same time frame as the "local folk Hathors" of Egypt being synthesized into a more doctrinally-complete Virgo or Isis.

    "Sixth" is fixed because it is a Lunar Calendar, it is just the sixth day of the lunar phase being repeated over and over, compared to which, man's calendar is free to use makeup days or leap years, etc., to time the months or mark festivals.

    As the sign Kanya:

    It represents consciousness-in-bondage, but with an understanding that the shackles can be cast away.

    ...its mystic nature is enhanced by the fact that it is a maiden, not a married female adult. Hindu scriptures link it with Prithivi, the Earth, or Aditi, Celestial Space. The way Kanya (Virgo) influences the individual is difficult to describe. It symbolizes the Female Power (shakti). Yavanacharya described Kanya (Virgo) as holding fire in one hand — the significance of this statement becomes clear only when one pursues the symbolism of fire

    ...for the attainment of siddhis there is no other sign which can be so helpful.

    In the sense of Virgo "connected" to Libra, the Lunar Mansion for Spica spans the Cusp. Most Lunar Mansions are named after "asterisms", i. e. groups of stars smaller than constellations. Spica is the only one named for the single star of itself. So it is a little unusual. Spica has its own realm of about twelve degrees in Virgo and Libra.

    The Indian name of the Star and its Mansion is Citra:

    Ancient Vedic seers saw this star as the residence of Vishwakarma (or Tvastar), the divine architect.

    Chitra conveys a wide variety of meanings in English ranging from “Glittering”, “Brilliant”, “Bright”, “Art”, “Artful”, “Beautiful”, “Many Coloured”, “Variegated”, “Illusory”, and “Visually Exciting” or “Magic”.

    Citra with some information from the Puranas.

    The doctrine that is in Yoga is not much about the external creator, but, more as taking over and becoming this personae of Tvastr for oneself. Not quite for worldly powers but Immortality.

    Some believe this means a state of grace in a heaven world, others, liberation from form completely, but in Buddhism I would say it is a type of tool or vehicle, in the sense that it indicates a type of immortal consciousness becoming unbroken throughout death and reincarnation.

    Consequently, if the Full Enlightenment of a Buddha is a truly aeonic process over hundreds or thousands of lifetimes, then, so to speak, this energy of Tvastr is being applied to a purpose. That it exists is a simple fact in nature which we did not make up, it is just used differently than in any other system.

    Understanding the Puranas from the view of Tvastr is something I would suggest. This, in turn, of course is informative to Indian Buddhism. It doesn't have its own Puranas and Astrology, which is why this kind of understanding fits what is behind a lot of Buddhist deities and practices, Hayagriva being a famous one.

    Here, we are focusing on the western branch and what may have been accurate and what may have become tainted. It continues to unfold; a Henge has recently been discovered in Oman.

    In the nineteenth century, HPB struggled with anthropologists' arbitrary terms like "Scythian" and "Turanian" which seem to be of marginal value. So she began a composite running to the conclusion Vedic Chaldeans and the onset of civilization in terms of houses:

    That nation, which had long since abandoned the nomadic pastoral state in which the patriarchal descendants of Shem indulged for ages yet to come, were these “mysterious” Akkadians or Chaldeans, whose name both upon classical and biblical authority designates not only a nation but that peculiar priestly caste initiated in and entirely devoted to the Sciences of astrology and magic.

    White people and civilization may be descended from black:

    Herodotus repeatedly mentions the Æthiopians of Asia, placing their country at the South of modern Afghanistan, now Kerman and Baluchistan.

    While Central Asians say they:

    ...lived on a fairy island, an Eden in the centre of Gobi when that dreary desert was yet a vast sea.

    In that article she used the phrase "Greek Eastern Church" rather than "Orthodox". And in general the relation must be is that Abraham is of Chaldea, or Ur if located separately from:

    "Chaldea" or mat Kaldi generally referred to the low, marshy, alluvial land around the estuaries of the Tigris and Euphrates.

    It may be a place, or, as in the article on Zoroastrianism:

    The word “Chaldean”
    does not refer merely to a native or an inhabitant of Chaldea, but to “Chaldeism,” the
    oldest science of astrology and occultism. And in that sense the Zoroastrians are the
    true heirs to Chaldean wisdom...

    Philaletheans on Chaldean Hierophants.

    Mention is made of "cylinders" or Rota, which she says not enough have been discovered yet, but they would show the origin of Tarot and Astrology, such as in The Secret Doctrine on Prime Motion:

    The Wheels are also called Rotæ—the moving wheels of the celestial orbs participating in the world's creation—when the meaning refers to the animating principle of the stars and planets; for, in the Kabalah, they are represented by the Auphanim, the Angels of the Spheres and Stars, of which they are the informing Souls.

    This law of vortical movement in primordial matter is one of the oldest conceptions of Greek philosophy, whose first historical sages were nearly all Initiates of the Mysteries. The Greeks had it from the Egyptians, and the latter from the Chaldeans, who had been the pupils of Brâhmans of the Esoteric school.

    A vortex or toroid has a type of axis and rotation, but it is not like a sphere, and turns out to be important in electromagnetism which was not developed in her time.

    By the ca. 600s when "People of the Book" was the criterion for how Caliphates would deal with non-Muslims, the Chaldean-alikes became known as Sabian.

    This includes Mandaean (the Mandaean Sabians), a Gnostic sect living in the marshlands of southern Iraq.

    The link contemplates likely offshoots, and one of them is demonized by the church but uplifted by HPB, Simon, whom she doubts really lost the duel because:

    Simon had lost so little credit with his pupils and the masses, that he went on daily preaching in the Roman Campania after his supposed fall from the clouds “far above the Capitolium,”...

    Were the disciples of Simon to have a chance, we might perhaps find that it was Peter who broke both his legs. But as against this hypothesis we know that this Apostle was too prudent ever to venture himself in Rome.

    Here again, it is as if the "infallibility" of Peter is transferred to the infallibility of the Bishop of Rome. However, that is a valid argument against a one-sided story, since if Simon had been demonstrated false, his followers would have turned away. Along with Apollonius:

    Were the existence of Jesus of Nazareth as well attested by history and he himself half as known to classical writers as was Apollonius no sceptic could doubt to-day the very being of such a man as the Son of Mary and Joseph. Apollonius of Tyana was the friend and correspondent of a Roman Empress and several Emperors, while of Jesus no more remained on the pages of history than as if his life had been written on the desert sands.

    Several researches on Simon Magus take him as a stand-in for Paul disputing Peter.

    Part of the point was on "miracles", seeing as they are just powers as used by Apollonius, and instructionally transmitted to others. Comparatively, the Bible relegates it into the hands of a chosen few, who are not so much following laws of nature, as they are by "intervention" of this new selective deity. But this is a post-200 redaction of books which in their original context tend to have a strong astrological connotation:

    . . . we have to learn that these men lived in the very dawn of civilization, that they were what we now call pagans, or worse—fetish-worshippers. The light of Science, helped and preceded by the still brighter light of Christianity, chased such religious phantoms of polytheism and replaced them by exact knowledge and—Monotheism.

    The possible confusion here is that such pagan faiths are, is a sense, monotheistic. The main difference is that the highest or Mono or Monad or One Existence is considered a transcendental state which is only found in spiritual practice. And so by flipping this idea around and lowering it into the material world, the belief is created that a few words given in observance of this philosophy are adequate. This seems exactly backwards, a "dumbing down". The Biblical redaction then conflates the Demiurge or Ialdabaoth, i. e. the material worker, with the transcendental deity. So it is like putting on a disguise. Then as we see that Virgin Birth was materialized. Then we find other perverse ideas such as Vicarious Atonement in the role of the Savior. If the older astrology is, so to speak, included by way of symbolism, then it happens to be syncretized with several new ideas, which may have stemmed from Peter or certain selective interpretations of the Jewish Messiah and so on.

    The idea of a soul created at birth and reaping permanent destiny from the course of one possibly minute lifetime is practically an aberration.

    That makes the re-compilation called the Dark Age, which, if that lasted until British Enlightenment, then our new light winds up being Zionism.

    That formulates "the West".

    It is hard to give much weight to Judaic conspiracy theory, since in most cases the Jews have rather been put on a pedestal every time they increased their power base. Largely, this makes them used like a tool, which of course happens to be beneficial towards rich influential Jews in the same mode of Capitalism.

    The whole thing can be dismissed because what they imaginarily talk about has a real existence as the Mountain Jews:

    It is believed that Mountain Jews had reached Persia from Israel as early as the 8th century BCE. They continued to migrate east, settling in mountainous areas of the Caucasus.

    Mountain Jews have an oral tradition, passed down from generation to generation, that they are descended from the Ten Lost Tribes, which were exiled by the king of Assyria (Ashur), who ruled over northern Iraq from Mosul...

    Mountain Jews are not Sephardim (from the Iberian Peninsula) nor
    Ashkenazim (from Central Europe) but rather of Persian Jewish origin, and they follow some Mizrachi customs. Mountain Jews tenaciously held to their religion throughout the centuries, developing their own unique traditions and religious practices. Mountain Jewish traditions are infused with teachings of Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism.

    The language spoken by Mountain Jews, called Judeo-Tat, is an ancient Southwest Iranian language which integrates many elements of Ancient Hebrew.

    From Hierophants:

    The Hebrew language is considered to be very old, and yet there exists no trace of it
    anywhere on the old monuments, not even in Chaldea. Among the great number of
    inscriptions of various kinds found in the ruins of that country:
    One in the Hebrew Chaldee letter and language has never been found; nor has
    a single authentic medal or gem in this new-fangled character been ever discovered, which could carry it even to the days of Jesus.

    The Hebrew known to
    the philologists does not date earlier than 500 BCE, and its characters belong to a far
    later period still.

    Currently, older attestations have been found, and what is perhaps more accurate is that Hebrew isn't exactly Hebrew:

    ...in its earliest stages Biblical Hebrew was not highly differentiated from Ugaritic...

    The term "Hebrew" (ivrit) was not used for the language in the Bible...but the name was used in Ancient Greek and Mishnaic Hebrew texts.

    It appears to have derived from a "language of Canaan" or "Semitic" and gained a distinct form in the Kingdom of Israel.

    Cast in stone as shown in the Second Temple Period in Secret Doctrine:

    Thus it is no accident, but the result of one archaic doctrine common to all, of which the Israelites, through Ezra, the author of the modernised Mosaic books, were the latest adapters. So unceremonious were they with other people's property, that Berosus (Antiquitates Libyae, I, fol. 8), shows that Titea -- of whom Diodorus makes the mother of the Titans or Diluvians (See Bibl. lib. III. p. 170) -- was the wife of Noah. For this Faber calls him the "pseudo-Berosus," yet accepts the information in order to register one proof more that the pagans have borrowed all their gods from the Jews, by transforming patriarchal material. According to our humble opinion, this is one of the best proofs possible of exactly the reverse. It shows as clearly as facts can show, that it is the Biblical pseudo-personages which are all borrowed from pagan myths, if myths they must be. It shows, at any rate, that Berosus was well aware of the source of Genesis, and that it bore the same cosmic astronomical character as the allegories of Isis-Osiris, and the Ark, and other older "Arkite" symbols. For, Berosus says that "Titea magna" was afterwards called Aretia,* and worshipped with the Earth; and this identifies "Titea," Noah's consort, with Rhea, the mother of the Titans, and with Ida -- both being goddesses who preside over the Earth, and the mothers of the Manus and Manes (or Tit-an-Kabiri).

    *Aretia is the female form of Artes (Egyptian Mars). Thence the Chaldean (and now Hebrew) word (Aretz) "Earth."

    I would say that Ezra and the followers of Peter truncated and reduced a grander philosophy and twisted it around.

    Ezekiel, personally, did not, but has been used as the foundation of Anglo supremacy and deprecation of Russia.

    Although they did not last, they certainly withstood Peter. Simonians were widespread for another two centuries:

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    Hi Shaberon, Wow, this is good stuff and will take time to digest. The Greek platonists were influenced by the Egyptian Hermetic texts - I have taken an interest in this area, "dipped my toes in"
    Recently I bought Roger Boscovich's text " a Theory of Natural Philosphy". Do you have any understanding of this work ?
    It is soooo complicated, do you think it is worth spendinģ the time required to gain some understanding of it ?
    I have great admiration for Prof. Konstantin Meyl ( DNA-Wavve & Scaler technology) whose work is based on Boscovich, put it this way, it is the "philosophy"behind his science. Would appreciate your opinion.
    Last edited by Applesprig; 1st May 2023 at 18:39.

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    RIP Phrinque the Dog (2017-2023)

    Brief eulogy for a friend of mine. I saw you just last night and held your head and you were super friendly to me. One tiny little moment of what life is supposed to be like. Now, thanks to one of our fellow motorists, it won't be happening again.

    You replaced two of our dogs who were both run over by people who couldn't even stop to say "I'm sorry".

    You were pronounced "Frank" but never allowed a conventional spelling. Didn't seem to bother you. Nothing did. You were in great shape and still had many years of goofy, pointless, flappy shenanigans still to go. Instead you became a victim of the system. All we can do is criticize it and rethink things and why if it is so advanced does it just spread illness, misery, and death, by bringing us more food in motorized vehicles and mocking us in the process.

    The best I can say is there was no intent behind these accidents, but there probably was negligence. Most everything I witness seems to be from a dulled out, disconnected state of mind. It may have a fast action, which is more like reflexes, than quality.

    We have posted some information on the star Spica, which has a certain meaning in the West, but in India it also marks the starting of the Zodiac, at its opposite point. Aries is a physically small constellation, so, in order for it to be the size of a "Sign", you start from this opposite point and go thirty degrees. In the West, this First Point of Aries is defined as the equinox, which means that it rotates, so that the sign Aries slips off of the actual constellation. However this definition did not come up until ca. year 150. If you already understand the equinox rotates, I do not see why this would impress you. You would just say, "Of course it does, what has that got to do with Aries?"

    You can mark its movements through Taurus, Aries, Pisces, doesn't that mean the equinox is changing the sign it is in?

    There is no way to explain the need for attaching the sign to its equation. So we are looking at the background of what is actually in these Signs, without this kind of tampering. As a brief assessment, it is based from a Divine Androgyne descending into the material world, and then, I might say, not so much escaping it, as escaping its limitations, in being the one with knowledgeable spiritual will which produces the triumph of mind *over* matter.

    There is an allegory, similar to this, in most of the classical languages of most cultures who were in touch with this Zodiacal ideal or at least parts of it. In this sense, China is foreign, there are places which do not recognize its existence. There is more of an interest in the West with respect to the more significant aspect of its myths which help explain it. To a large extent, this means the systems of Greece and Egypt, which functioned until the ca. 500s. In turn, this is partly the story of Root Matter, Prakriti, or Akasha or Aether, "not the ether of science", Space.

    From what I have seen, this is one of the more difficult things for a person to know by perceiving. It is the Gnostic Wisdom. So this must be one of the most fundamental tenets of the Zodiac or what it is trying to teach.

    We found that in Greece, Virgo is:

    Astraía; "star-maiden" or "starry night" is a daughter of Astraeus and Eos (Dawn in all Indo-European myths).

    Astraea's hoped-for return was referred to in a phrase from Virgil's Eclogue 4: "Iam redit et virgo, redeunt Saturnia Regna" (Astraea returns, returns old Saturn's reign).

    During the European Renaissance, Astraea became associated with the general spirit of renewal of culture occurring at that time...

    Crossing to Egypt, we found Virgo associated with certain creative deities. In pagan polytheism, the elements such as Fire and orbs such as the Sun are not, ultimately, the objects of worship. So Nut and Hathor are like massive environments wherein a mission is to be accomplished. The "purpose" was identified readily enough by HPB:

    Maat (Egyptian) Maāt. The goddess personifying physical and moral law, order, and truth, regarded as the feminine counterpart of Thoth (Tehuti). She is represented as standing with Thoth in the boat of Ra when the sun god first rose above the waters of the primeval spatial abyss of Nu. She is called the daughter of Ra, the eye of Ra, lady of heaven, queen of the earth, and mistress of the Underworld, who guides the course of the sun. The type and symbol of the goddess is the ostrich feather; the word maat is represented by the hieroglyph of the feather and means primarily that which is orderly and direct, hence in a moral sense, right, truth, justice, including a reference to the fact that these supreme attributes weigh light as a feather in the scales of judgment, and yet are as weighty in importance as the universe itself. Maat was regarded by the Egyptians, in connection with her moral power, as the greatest of goddesses, for she was the chief lady of the Judgment Hall, into which the deceased must enter (called the Hall of Maati, “double truth”).

    Ma'at wasn’t just the goddess of these concepts, but was the embodiment of them and therefore was seen to be above the ideas of right and wrong because she IS the truth, and nothing is stronger than truth! To the ancient Egyptians she personified both physical and moral laws, and was also thought to have been the ruler of Earth as well, being that she regulated the sun, stars, seasons and all cosmic events. This concept is seriously so crazy because while being one of the most important deities, she had no temples of her own or places of worship. The other Egyptian deities even had to follow under her! This makes sense because temples for other god’s often contained statues of her within them! Total boss!

    Ma’at ‘s symbol was the white feather, commonly of an Ostrich, and this feather was used in deciding whether a person would successfully reach the afterlife by weighing her feather of truth against the weight of their soul.

    On a personal level, entrance to the happy side of the Underworld is satisfied by following Ma'at's 42 Laws.

    This again is an area where Egypt and India appear similar. What is designed as a role for the King is really just a metaphor for an individual practitioner. Ma'at determines the life of a country, and death to all. She is revealed at great length by Richter 2012 in an amazing study of the Theology of Hathor of Dendera, having three main contexts:

    Hathor as solar goddess and
    primordial Creator; the Myth of the Wandering Goddess; and the King as Intermediary between
    the human and divine worlds. These three themes are interconnected, with the myth creating the
    context by which the King approaches the goddess in order to carry out the crucial rituals that
    will restore cosmic order and active the continuation of creation.

    Hathor is the Wandering Goddess, originally visible by Ra while he was on Earth, and then:

    Ra enlists the aid of her brother Shu, a powerful lion, and the wise Thoth, to help bring
    her back.

    The temple is saturated with word plays and visual suggestions:

    ...in passages concerned with Ma'at, the basis of Egyptian society, its stylistic patterning of sound,
    word choice, and verse structuring is particularly striking.

    In other words, yes, it is much like Sanskrit, in that you would have to first be educated in basics, before half of the passages make sense, because it is all self-referencing, full of puns and other devices. A couple ideas about her prevalence:

    The King sees Hathor, while
    Ma'at approaches the goddess and pays homage to her.

    ...two scenes of the king offering
    Ma’at to Hathor. Because Ma’at is the foundation of order and harmony in the universe,
    established at Creation, its offering is the most essential, legitimizing the rule of the king and
    showing his willingness to govern according to divine law.

    It may be a King--perhaps we should say Pharaoh--but there is also the social contract of an Enlightened Monarch. Justice may be only one of her main attributes, but, we would say, is not part of nature, does not happen without man's careful and non-selfish consideration. So yes, Ma'at is a very crucial and sensitive deity.

    Dendera implies meditative exercises from a compound of clever verbal and visual components. Similarly, there are fifty exercises in Atalanta Fugiens by Michael Maier, 1617:

    It is the first alchemical Gesamtkunstwerk that comprises music, images, poetry, and prose together in one piece. As is stressed on the frontispiece of the book, all the senses are involved in contact with this treatise: partim oculis et inteflectui... partim auribus et recreationi... videnda, legenda, meditanda, intelligenda, dijudicanda, canenda et audienda. In this respect, Atalanta is a book that requires a rather contemplative exercise.

    The fugues were arranged in three voices symbolizing the philosopher's stone, the pursuing adept, and obstacles in his way.

    The title page depicts various scenes from Greek mythology related to golden apples:

    Top: Garden of the Hesperides.
    Left: Hercules stretching out his arm to seize one of the golden apples.
    Right: Aphrodite handing the golden apples to Hippomenes.
    Bottom: Race between Atalanta and Hippomenes, with Atalanta picking up an apple. Behind them is a temple with lovers embracing each other, while in the background they appear as a lion and lioness.

    Atalanta ("equal in weight") was a defensive virgin, however this method used to attain sex with her leads to a change:

    Aphrodite had given him three golden apples, and during the race he dropped them one after the other. Their beauty charmed Atalanta so much, that she could not abstain from gathering them. Thus she was conquered, and became the wife of Meilanion. Once when the two, by their embraces in the sacred grove of Zeus, profaned the sanctity of the place, they were both metamorphosed into lions.

    As to the Hesperides in Theosophy:

    The Greek goddesses who, with the hundred-headed dragon Ladon, guarded the golden apples which Gaia (earth) gave as a wedding present to Hera on her marriage to Zeus. These apples grew on a tree in a garden by the banks of the river Oceanus near Mt. Atlas, which geographically for the ancients was the peak of Teneriffe, a remnant of Atlantis. One of the tasks of Hercules was to secure some of these apples. The Hesperides are, according to various authorities, three, four, or seven in number. Hesiod calls them the daughters of Night; they are also called Atlantides, and by some made the daughters of Atlantis and Hesperis.

    In this we recognize the mythos of the tree of knowledge with its fruit and its location in the garden of life, localized in those mysterious lands of the West from which the ancestors of the Greeks migrated when the new race was in birth from the surviving elect of the old. It represents the Golden Age, the Eden of Grecian mythology.

    For some reason, Atalanta has been presented in the same work as Hercules. Does her name imply "equal to the white feather?" The Apples are the Eleventh Labor, after two of his previous successes are technically disqualified. First there were ten, but it becomes twelve, which are supposed to be impossible and fatal.

    Atalanta became a Lion, and Hercules's first task was the Nemean Lion which is the sign Leo, prior to Virgo. This immediately suggests the Fixed Cross.

    We can perhaps find this as a tangent to Astraea and Ma'at on the Tarot card Justice:

    Noteworthy, is that the cardinal virtues, both in and outside the tarot, are almost always personified by women. The reason for this can be found in the book of Wisdom from the Old Testament. In this book these four virtues are mentioned as the result of the divine “Wisdom” (Greek: Sophia), which underlies creation:

    …her [Wisdom] labours have great virtues: for she teacheth temperance, and prudence, and justice, and fortitude, which are such things as men can have nothing more profitable in life.

    (Wisdom 8:7)

    Cardinal is a "hinge", as in "everything hinges on this", and the cards are usually:

    Justice, Strength, Temperance, Wisdom

    Cardinal Virtues derive initially from Plato in Republic Book IV, 426–435. Prudence or Wisdom is Sophia. Prudence was assigned to the rulers and to reason. Justice stands outside the class system and divisions of man, and rules the proper relationship among the three of them.

    Their symbols in churches and papal tombs are similar to them in the Tarot.

    Comparatively, it is the Scale, Libra, which is on the Cardinal Cross.

    Libra is the only sign without a living feature, so, it is difficult to argue that it is very separate from Virgo.

    The woman on the Visconti Justice card is wearing a dress with hexagons. This is a reference to the hexagram (six-pointed star); the universal symbol for the merger of the polarities (right). With the hand with which the woman holds the scales, she is, subtly, making the sign of the sacred marriage. The scales have different colors: gold and silver. This is a reference to the polar energies – sun (gold) and moon (silver) – that have been balanced.

    A lot of artwork keeps using the "secret marriage", which is just a soft gesture of two fingers held together as one.

    The ‘Sigillum Sapientum’ (Seal of the Wise) of the alchemist. The inner union (hexagram and ouroboros) takes place as a result of the inner working of the divine Sophia (woman with SWORD AND SCALES). Source: JM Faust, Philalethes Illustratus, 1706.

    The horse’s deck is decorated with five-petalled flowers: the Rose of Venus.


    The Damsel of Swords card of the 15th century Visconti di Modrone deck. A pomegranate pattern is printed on her dress.

    The article mentions Squaring the Circle, as seen in Atalanta Fugiens:

    Its accomplishment is the Magnum Opus which leaves the practitioner covered with Roses of Venus:

    The Rose is a Pentagram. which may not be literally true, but is based on the perceived motion:

    Prague Sophia under Hygeia:

    It was hardly explained above, but, Squaring the circle is taken from an old mathematical problem for which there isn't a solution, and it became a metaphor for something impossible, like the Labors of Hercules. However there is a subjective one as described in The Mahatma Letters:

    the meaning of the interlaced triangles -- geometrical synthesis of whole occult doctrine -- contains the squaring of the circle

    ...the double triangle viewed by the Jewish Kabalists as Solomon's Seal, is, as many of you doubtless know the Sri-antara of the archaic Aryan Temple, the "mystery of Mysteries," a geometrical synthesis of the whole occult doctrine. The two interlaced triangles are the Buddhangums of Creation. They contain the "squaring of the circle," the "philosophical stone," the great problems of Life and Death, and -- the Mystery of Evil. The chela who can explain this sign from every one of its aspects -- is virtually an adept.

    The interlaced triangles -- the upper pointing one -- is Wisdom concealed, and the downward pointing one -- Wisdom revealed (in the phenomenal world).

    The white represents in its straight lines: Gnanam -- (Knowledge); Gnata -- (the Knower); and Gnayam -- (that which is known). The black-form, colour, and substance, also the creative, preservative, and destructive forces...

    ...the third Person of the Christian Trinity is -- female...

    Pythagoras had a reason for never using the finite, useless figure -- 2, and for altogether discarding it. The One, can, when manifesting, become only 3. The unmanifested when a simple duality remains passive and concealed. The dual monad (the 7th and 6th principles) has, in order to manifest itself as a Logos, the "Kwan-shai-yin" to first become a triad (7th, 6th and half of the 5th); then, on the bosom of the "Great Deep" attracting within itself the One Circle -- form out of it the perfect Square, thus "squaring the circle" -- the greatest of all the mysteries, friend -- and inscribing within the latter the -- Word (the Ineffable name) -- otherwise the duality could never tarry as such, and would have to be reabsorbed into the One. The "Deep" is Space -- both male and female. "Purush (as Brahma) breathes in the Eternity: when 'he' in-breathes -- Prakriti (as manifested Substance) disappears in his bosom; when 'he' out-breathes she reappears as Maya," says the Sloka. The One reality is Mulaprakriti (undifferentiated Substance) -- the "Rootless root," the. . . But we have to stop, lest there should remain but little to tell for your own intuitions.

    ...the Unmanifested Circle -- the Father, or Absolute Life -- is non-existent outside the Triangle and Perfect Square, and -- is only manifested in the Son; and that it is when, reversing the action and returning to its absolute state of Unity, and the square expands once more into the Circle -- that "the Son returns to the bosom of the Father." There it remains until called back by his Mother -- the "Great Deep," to remanifest as a triad -- the Son partaking at once, of the Essence of the Father, and of that of the Mother -- the active Substance, Prakriti in its differentiated condition. "My Mother -- (Sophia -- the manifested Wisdom) took me" -- says Jesus in a Gnostic treatise; and he asks his disciples to tarry till he comes. . . . The true "Word" may only be found by tracing the mystery of the passage inward and outward of the Eternal Life, through the states typified in these three geometric figures.

    He refers to exactly the same point within a hexagram that we found with the Simonians.

    From some Arabic and Jewish tales of Solomon's Seal or Signet Ring:

    Solomon is represented as having authority over spirits, animals, wind, and water, all of which obeyed his orders by virtue of a magic ring set with the four jewels given him by the angels that had power over these four realms.

    Among the many parallels of Hermes:

    In the Egyptian Book of the Dead, comprised of a variety of texts treating after-death states and the forces leading to diverse conditions of rebirth, Thoth is depicted in the great solar barque of Ra, standing opposite Maat. Here Ra is the solar creative force, the spirit of the Invisible Sun, while Thoth is its hidden wisdom and Maat, the feminine aspect of Thoth, is the law of noumenal Nature. According to the oldest known Egyptian cosmogony, Thoth utters the divine Word through which the whole cosmos emerges. When Atum, the golden sphere of light, arose in the incomprehensible Abyss of Nothingness, it differentiated itself into three creative aspects – Thought, Will and Command. While Ra is the divine idea of the universe to be, Thoth is the mysterious ideation which gives rise to the Word – Maat, the Law.

    ...as Poimandres explains:

    That light is I, Nous, the first god, who was before the watery substance appeared out of this darkness, and the Word which emanated from the light is the son of God. . . . Learn my meaning by looking at what is within yourself, for in you also Speech is son, and the mind is father of the Word. They are not separate from one another, for Life is the union of Word and Mind.

    The scene disappears to be replaced by a vast congeries of forces and powers, all part of the original Light, forming the architectonics of the world. This is the archetype of the visible universe. The prime Nous, Poimandres, "the Mind which is Life and Light", gives rise to a second Nous, a creative force which makes from fire and air seven cosmocratores or administrators of the cosmic order. These correspond to the seven sacred planets of the visible universe, whose intelligent revolutions constitute destiny. After forming these beings, who contain the watery substance which will become Nature, the Word is withdrawn and Nature is left devoid of reason. But the first Mind gave birth to Anthropos, archetypal man, who is consubstantial with itself, and in this sense made in the image of God. Anthropos took his place in the abode of the second, creative Mind, and there beheld the creation of his brother.

    When Anthropos looks upon blind Nature, Nature responds to that which is like itself in origin and forms herself into a mirror. Thus Anthropos looks upon himself, and taking that image for Nature, is drawn towards her. He passes through each of the seven spheres of the planets and gains their powers as he moves. Yet since he is one with Nous, the first god, originator of the creative Mind, his descent is self-limitation and a fall from his true being.

    For the Pymander, we use an Arabic text from 1650, and:

    The earliest Latin edition is that of Marsilius Ficinus, 1471...

    ...he is said by himself, to be the son of Saturn...

    It has been asserted by men who have been called learned, that this Hermes was really identical with Enoch, and by others he has been identified as Gautama—the Buddha. If the name HERMES be taken and the suffix ES be neglected, and the word formed of the letters H, R, M, be traced through Chaldee, Coptic, Greek and Latin forms, an analogy will be observed between Hermes, and Hiram the hero of the myth of Freemasonry, a symbolical system of morals and theosophy which is but a reconstruction of a portion of the Ancient Mysteries.

    The Corpus has the sense of accretion in Hermetica:

    During the Middle Ages, most of them were only accessible to Byzantine scholars (an important exception being the Asclepius, which mainly survives in an early Latin translation), until a compilation of Greek Hermetic treatises known as the Corpus Hermeticum was translated into Latin by the Renaissance scholars Marsilio Ficino (1433–1499) and Lodovico Lazzarelli (1447–1500).

    ...a selection of seventeen Greek treatises that was first compiled by Byzantine editors, and translated into Latin in the fifteenth century...Its individual treatises were quoted by many early authors from the second and third centuries on, but the compilation as such is first attested only in the writings of the Byzantine philosopher Michael Psellus (c. 1017–1078).

    In 1462 Ficino was working on a Latin translation of the collected works of Plato for his patron Cosimo de' Medici, but when a manuscript of the Corpus Hermeticum became available, he immediately interrupted his work on Plato in order to start translating the works of Hermes, which were thought to be much more ancient, and therefore much more authoritative, than those of Plato.

    Among the Coptic treatises which were found in 1945 in the Upper Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi, there are also three treatises attributed to Hermes Trismegistus.

    The star-worshipping sect known as the Sabians of Harran also believed that their doctrine descended from Hermes Trismegistus.

    HPB says of Pymander:

    Said to be an abridgment of one of the Books of Thoth by a Platonist of Alexandria, remodeled in the 3rd century after old Greek and Phoenician manuscripts by a Jewish Qabbalist and called the Genesis of Enoch (SD 2:267n).

    Genesis of Enoch is also called Genesis Apocrypha, found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Enoch is canonical in Ethiopia.

    From Isis Unveiled:

    Michael and Enoch are one and the same person. Both occupy the junction-point of the cross of the Zodiac as "man."

    He that "walked with God" and "did not die" is the spiritual Enoch, who typified humanity, eternal in spirit and as eternal in flesh, though the latter does die. Death is but a new birth, and spirit is immortal; thus humanity can never die, for the Destroyer has become the Creator, Enoch is the type of the dual man, spiritual and terrestrial. Hence his place in the centre of the astronomical cross.

    It is the Mundane cross of Heaven repeated on earth by plants and dual man: the physical man superseding the "spiritual," at the junction-point of which stands the mythical Libra-Hermes-Enoch.

    If the reader will keep in mind the Hindu ideas of cosmogony, as given in chapter vi., he will better understand the relation between the biblical antediluvian patriarchs, and that puzzle of commentators--"Ezekiel's wheel." Thus, be it remembered 1, that the universe is not a spontaneous creation, but an evolution from pre-existent matter; 2, that it is only one of an endless series of universes; 3, that eternity is pointed off into grand cycles, in each of which twelve transformations of our world occur, following its partial destruction by fire and water, alternately. So that when a new minor period sets in, the earth is so changed, even geologically, as to be practically a new world; 4, that of these twelve transformations, the earth after each of the first six is grosser, and everything on it--man included--more material, than after the preceding one: while after each of the remaining six the contrary is true, both earth and man growing more and more refined and spiritual with each terrestrial change; 5, that when the apex of the cycle is reached, a gradual dissolution takes place, and every living and objective form is destroyed. But when that point is reached, humanity has become fitted to live subjectively as well as objectively. And not humanity alone, but also animals, plants, and every atom. After a time of rest, say the Buddhists, when a new world becomes self-formed, the astral souls of animals, and of all beings, except such as have reached the highest Nirvana; will return on earth again to end their cycles of transformations, and become men in their turn.

    This stupendous conception, the ancients synthesized for the instruction of the common people, into a single pictorial design--the Zodiac, or celestial belt. Instead of the twelve signs now used, there were originally but ten known to the general public, viz.: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo-Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricornus, Aquarius, and Pisces. These were exoteric. But in addition there were two mystical signs inserted, which none but initiates comprehended, viz.: at the middle or junction-point where now stands Libra, and at the sign now called Scorpio, which follows Virgo. When it was found necessary to make them exoteric, these two secret signs were added under their present appellations as blinds to conceal the true names which gave the key to the whole secret of creation, and divulged the origin of "good and evil."

    The true Sabean astrological doctrine secretly taught that within this double sign was hidden the explanation of the gradual transformation of the world, from its spiritual and subjective, into the "two-sexed" sublunary state. The twelve signs were therefore divided into two groups. The first six were called the ascending, or the line of Macrocosm (the great spiritual world); the last six, the descending line, or the Microcosm (the little secondary world)--the mere reflection of the former, so to say. This division was called Ezekiel's wheel, and was completed in the following way: First came the ascending five signs (euphemerized into patriarchs), Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, and the group concluded with Virgo-Scorpio. Then came the turning-point, Libra. After which, the first half of the sign Virgo-Scorpio, was duplicated and transferred to lead the lower, or descending group of Microcosm which ran down to Pisces, or Noah (deluge). To make it clearer, the sign Virgo-Scorpio, which appeared originally thus , became simply Virgo, and the duplication, , or Scorpio, was placed between Libra, the seventh sign (which is Enoch, or the angel Metatron, or Mediator between spirit and matter, or God and man). It now became Scorpio (or Cain), which sign or patriarch led mankind to destruction...

    Noting a Swastika as a six-limbed cross:

    by adding to the cross proper + the symbol of the four cardinal points and infinity at the same time, thus 卐, the arms pointing above, below, and right, and left, making six in the circle. . .

    She also points out that the hermaphrodite goddess Adanari shows "the Svastica, the 'male and female sign', right in the central part, to denote the pre-sexual state...

    Virgo's "ear of wheat" is the infant child of light born at Christmas, and her other hand is really holding Libra, i. e. the adult man in his initiatory trials of life, and of the soul at death.

    HPB says:

    ...wheat is said not to be known in the wild state nor to have been developed from any grass.

    Plato speaks of inventors — gods and demigods incarnate in human beings — who appeared successively among the races of mankind after their divine rulers had departed, and discovered fire, wheat, and wine. The kabiri and also Isis are said to have brought wheat. In ancient Greece wheat was always associated with Demeter or Ceres (whence the word cereal), and as Demeter was the preeminent goddess of the Mysteries, sheaves of wheat also were associated with the Mysteries.

    and generally for Demeter:

    Demeter is assigned the zodiac constellation Virgo, the Virgin, by Marcus Manilius in his 1st-century Roman work Astronomicon.

    She and her daughter Persephone were the central figures of the Eleusinian Mysteries, a religious tradition that predated the Olympian pantheon.

    The central theme in the Eleusinian Mysteries was the reunion of Persephone with her mother, Demeter when new crops were reunited with the old seed, a form of eternity.

    In the older chthonic cults the earth goddess was related to the Underworld and in the secret rites (mysteries) Demeter and Persephone share the double function of earth and fertility. Demeter is the giver of the secret rites and the giver of the laws of cereal agriculture.

    The equivalent of Ma'at is Oracle goddess Themis:

    Themis was closely identified with Demeter Thesmophoros ("Bringer of Law"). Indeed Themis' six children, the spring-time Horai (Horae, Seasons) and death-bringing Moirai (Moirae, Fates), reflect the dual-functions of Demeter's own daughter Persephone. Themis was also identified with Gaia (Gaea, Earth) especially in the role of the oracular voice of earth.

    One of the Seasons is Dike or Justicia, a separate "scales" goddess.

    Spica is one of the stars on the Brazilian flag – the only one above the Latin motto.

    The three goddesses are oddly tossed together for a panel on Justice given to the Berkeley Buddhist Center. It does not quite hit the occult highlights, but indicates the same general theme.

    Cosimo Medici secured the manuscripts after Constantinople 1453, which caused Greek scholars to move to Italy:

    With them came much of the magical and Hermetic
    knowledge which the Greeks in their turn had inherited from the Egyptians. The Key of Solomon was one such text. It is therefore essential to the understanding of such magical texts that one understands exactly how the Byzantines understood the nature of daemons. Psellus forms the bridge between the ancient world, Byzantine Greek, and the grimoire conception of the nature of daemons.

    Here is a brief article of Hermetic Fragments historically, to which Michael Psellos represents the first known complete compendium. His comments however appear negative. He is at least a vehicle of information, actually a highly accomplished polymath according to the page for Psellos:

    ...a high ranking advisor to several Byzantine emperors and was instrumental in the re-positioning of power of those emperors.

    Despite his eminence and prowess in learning, his knowledge of Latin was cloudy enough for him to confuse Cicero with Caesar. This is cited as a prime example of how the Eastern Roman Empire had lost nearly all of its connections to its Roman roots by the High Middle Ages.

    De operatione dæmonum (On the Operation of Demons), which offered a demonic taxonomy as part of an anti-Manichaean dialogue. He wrote a treatise on alchemy, theurgy (summoning spirits) despite the study being forbidden by the church.

    He prided himself on having single-handedly reintroduced to Byzantine scholarship a serious study of ancient philosophy, especially of Plato. His predilection for Plato and other pagan (often Neoplatonic) philosophers led to doubts about the orthodoxy of his faith among some of his contemporaries...

    It would probably be fair to say that Neo-platonic Theurgy was "in decline" in the Greek eastern sphere after around the 600s due to upwellings from Christianity and Islam. Its schools and temples are no longer prevalent or influential. At the same time, it is coalescing into the Druze community. And nevertheless, in the 1,000s you find the Corpus intact, and it remains for four hundred years, until being attempted to be emplaced in Western Europe, especially in the Medici Renaissance. It is true that some of the same information must be entering Venice, but they are not using it the same way.

    Here we can develop the notion that some deities such as Justitia and Tyche are like daughters, offspring, or additions to greater cosmic forces. For example, Fortuna lacks the Scales of Justitia:

    During the early Empire, an amulet from the House of Menander in Pompeii links her to the Egyptian goddess Isis, as Isis-Fortuna.

    Rota Fortunae (wheel of fortune, first mentioned by Cicero)

    ...she could be represented as veiled and blind, as in modern depictions of Lady Justice, except that Fortuna does not hold a balance.

    As Annonaria she protected grain supplies.

    Fortuna's name seems to derive from Vortumna (she who revolves the year).

    Also Fortuna had a temple at the Forum Boarium (cattle market). Here Fortuna was twinned with the cult of Mater Matuta (indigenous Aurora and Eos)--the goddesses shared a festival on 11 June--and the paired temples have been revealed in the excavation beside the church of Sant'Omobono: the cults are indeed archaic in date.

    Fortuna's identity as personification of chance events was closely tied to virtus (strength of character).

    cf. the Fortuna gubernans of Lucretius

    Fortuna gubernans (5.107) has many Greek parallels from Menander to
    Anth. Pal. x. 65.

    With Lucretius, it is equivalent to Natura gubernans.

    A study on Fortuna says that the "rudder" is almost certainly a Greek import:

    In the West, Terence Eunuchus 1046 and Lucretius 5.107 are the earliest
    Latin writers to define Fortuna as gubernans (guiding) and gubernatrix
    (conductress), titles which, in fact, would become very common epithets of the
    goddess in the imperial period.

    In his treatise, Plutarch attributes to
    Fortuna the role of protector over Romulus and the city from its foundation. In describing
    Fortuna’s role as protectress of the city, Plutarch depicts Fortuna’s arrival on the Palatine hill as
    the residence of choice, where she gave up her fickle implements. He compares this scene to an
    image of Aphrodite, who replaced her own peaceful adornments with those of war when fighting
    for the Spartans (317F). He also associates Venus with Fortuna in the Sulla passage (318C-D). In
    an inscription, writes Plutarch, Sulla described himself as Epaphroditus. The author follows this
    passage with a quote from Menander, who wrote that the goddess of Chance has a greater share in
    Aphrodite than night (318D).

    With Menander:

    Greek gods do not act by miraculous interference with the course
    of nature; they act through nature, and in particular through the
    minds of human beings. This play, which has Fortune as its prologuizing
    divinity, is no exception. Tyche and TO aUT6JLaTOV play a great
    part in Menander; but in his work neither means 'Chance'. TO aUT6p.aTov
    refers to things that happen by themselves, without deliberate human
    intervention; notice the word 'human'. In some Hellenistic writers
    Tyche came to have the sense of blind chance; but in the classical age
    it normally means 'whatever happens'.

    Similar principle, "anything" is a different game than "human intervention". So, spiritually, we attempt to increase in Wisdom and those qualities which result in beneficial intervention. For a higher moral goddess affecting all classes of people, concerning the Wings of Fortune:

    ...at other times She is described as having wings, much like many Etruscan Goddesses—and indeed She was equated with the old Etruscan Fate Goddess Nortia, who was often shown winged.

    She was the patron Goddess of the Etruscan city of Velsna, rendered by the Romans as Volsinii, and called in some accounts Nyrtia or Nursia, after the Goddess. Velsna was considered the sacred or moral center of Etruria, and within the city was a sanctuary to the God Voltumnus that functioned as a meeting-place for the Etruscan federation, made up of the twelve main cities of Etruria.

    Having few remnants, for Nortia (time, fate, destiny, and chance):

    Juvenal identifies her with Fortuna.

    She is renowned for a Nail Driving ritual marking the close of a year and:

    The ritual of the nail illuminates the otherwise puzzling iconography on the back of an Etruscan bronze mirror. Meleager is depicted under the wings of another Etruscan goddess of fate, identified by inscription as Athrpa, the counterpart of the Greek fate goddess Atropos who is one of the three Moirai. Athrpa holds a hammer in her right hand and a nail in her left. With Meleager is his beloved Atalanta (both names given in the Etruscan spelling), who will be parted by his death in a boar hunt presaged at the top of the composition. Turan and Atunis (the Etruscan Venus and Adonis myth) also appear, as another couple whose love is destroyed by the savagery of the hunt.

    Atropos (from which, "atropine") marks the close of a life, usually by Scissors. This obvious alteration is not confusion, but, an attempt to say that Atropos is an aspect of Nortia.

    In the Calydonian Boar Hunt, Atalanta:

    ...had been suckled by Artemis as a she-bear and raised as a huntress, a proxy for Artemis herself.

    Whereas the Boar, itself, apparently reincarnates, such as for Hercules:

    In the primitive highlands of Arcadia, where old practices lingered, the Erymanthian boar was a giant fear-inspiring creature of the wilds that lived on Mount Erymanthos, a mountain that was apparently once sacred to the Mistress of the Animals, for in classical times it remained the haunt of Artemis (Homer, Odyssey, VI.105). A boar was a dangerous animal: "When the goddess turned a wrathful countenance upon a country, as in the story of Meleager, she would send a raging boar, which laid waste the farmers' fields."

    As to Atalanta and this potential suitor, there was Parthenopaeus:

     'virgin woman's son'

    Parthenopaeus was the son of Atalanta by either her husband Hippomenes (Melanion), or by Meleager, or Ares.

    Hyginus writes that he was left exposed by Atalanta on Mount Parthenius ("virginal") in Arcadia, so that she could conceal the fact that she was not a virgin anymore; the name Parthenopaeus is accordingly interpreted by Hyginus as "seemingly-virginal" or the like, as if referring to the fact that his mother was pretending to still be a virgin.

    HPB says of these Etruscans:

    Among the older Greek historians there is mention of Tyrrhenoi or Tyrsenoi, and of a king of Lydia named Tyrrhenos who led a Pelasgian colony to Umbria. Roman history describes a mixed population, Etrusci, Tusci, or (by their own name) Rasenna, formed by immigrants from Asia and from over the Alps, still preserving much of their ancient culture amid corrupted habits, and diffusing it to other Italian peoples.

    Throughout Roman history Etruria and the Etruscans were looked upon by virtually all classes of peoples under the sway of Rome as being the seat and the exponents of magic, profound mystical thought, and esoteric philosophy; and as the Romans knew much more about those so close to their own time than modern scholarship does, this manner of viewing the ancient Etruscans cannot be set aside lightly.

    Isis--Fortuna--Nortia appears parallel.

    Ma'at--Astraea--Themis are close.

    Themis is a Titan and probably only affects Immortals:

    Together with Zeus, Themis bore the HORAE, or the goddesses of the seasons. She also gave birth to Natura, a goddess of the forest.

    So is Astraea but she is more immanent as in a certain conflation:

    During the Golden Age, humankind was at its peak. During this time, the Golden Race of humanity lived. Some legends say that the Titan CRONUS presided over the Golden Age. However, Astraea is accepted as its most popular ambassador.

    Astraea is most known as the last of the immortals to live among humans during the Golden Age of man.

    For Virgil, it was not the Age of Immortals, but, Saturn, a refugee from the Trojan War, founding Latium on peaceful terms with the Etruscans. Perhaps it has a double meaning if Titans refer to a pre-human age.

    I find it is usually easier to understand hypostasis from within a single system such as:

    Plutarch writes, “that is why they call the leader of the muses in the city of Hermes at once Isis and Justice, since she is wise…” One scholar has suggested that this Hermopolitan ennead of Muses might have consisted of Isis-Ma’at, Isis-Hathor, and the Seven Hathors.

    We saw at Pompeii, there is Isis-Fortuna, where also was found what was thought to be Indian Lakshmi, but should probably just be called the Pompeii Ivory:

    Based on its architectural remains and floor plan, this "House of the Four Styles," directly off of the Via dell'Abbondanza, is now believed to have belonged to a successful merchant. It is crammed with luxurious Indian commodities...

    ...the iconography, in particular the exposed genitals, reveals that the figure is more likely to depict a yakshi...

    It lacks any significant iconography, however it is inscribed:

    the letter śi, as the śi in Shiva

    which is not much to go on. With one hand she holds her earrings, and the other reaches over behind her back and seems to be adjusting a hair braid. That doesn't resemble any deity. The strength of numbers would suggest it is Buddhist art, which made a lot of Yakshis for a long time, although others also did. The Mathura school is pretty close to this specimen.

    Among goddesses, the more sublime or cosmic form does not appear to have Scales, which, i. e., are Idris or Hermes or Thoth or Enoch at the center of the Wheel. Ma'at "is associated with" them, but she does not personally carry them, neither does Isis, Fortuna, Astraea, or Nortia.

    Scales are found with offspring such as:

    Dike, Justitia

    Rather than Libra, the apparent emanation says something about Virgo and Taurus:

    Isis-Hathor cannot be much different from Osiris-Apis or Serapis.

    I think it would be very speculative to try proving that Dendera records an extensive memory of multiple Great Year cycles, and, I am not sure what we could fill that much time with. However, because these deities point to the Bull, it is not that hard to go back to the Age of Taurus. This Age shows the equinox in the Fixed Cross as we know it, onto which, the Libra is centered and crucified. I suppose Libra is central to the whole Zodiac, however the Fixed Cross is the Four Form Elements, and so it is the first statement about being staked to a form of matter, lost from the higher realms, so of course you have to identify mistakes before fixing them.

    We can trace our alphabet all the way back to the Phoenician, and they all begin with the Bull.

    Considering that out letter A is upside, down, from the Glossary:

    Designated by the first letter of the alphabet, Taurus is described in many ancient systems as being number one among the signs, because this ascription took place and became static at a time in past history when Taurus opened the spring, and hence was reckoned as the first.

    Taurus stands for both sun and moon gods, its symbol being sometimes a bull and sometimes a cow, the Third Logos mystically being considered androgyne, differentiation into the two opposites not yet having supervened. Thus Taurus was usually connected with sun gods, such as Osiris; and at others connected with moon goddesses — Isis, Diana, Cybele, etc. — with the moon, and with the far higher Magna Mater (great mother), source of Taurus as the Second Logos, a distinctly feminine aspect.

    She says it is also Pranava or Om, although in most modern understandings this is split:

    Nandi, the bull that sits in front of Sivalinga, represents pranava (Omkara, the sound OM). Vrishabha (the bull) represents Dharma Devata, the Lord of Virtue.

    But this is another innovation, even according to The Met:

    The young bull is popularly but incorrectly called Nandi, “the joyful,” but is better referred to simply as Vrishabha, the “white bull.”

    Or Wiki:

    It is recently documented, that the application of the name Nandi to the bull (Sanskrit: Vṛṣabha), is in fact a development of recent syncretism of different regional beliefs within Saivism. The name Nandi was widely used instead for an anthropomorphic door-keeper of Kailasha, rather than his mount, in the oldest Saivite texts in Sanskrit, Tamil, and other Indian languages.

    It is now art of the art in the Indian Constitution:

    He included Vrishabha, a symbol of Indus Valley Civilization, and then made drawings linking Babylon, the port of the Sumerian civilization with Lothal (Gujarat), the port of the Indus Valley Civilization.

    It has an even more esoteric meaning similar to Buddhism with Shiva:

    How to attain the final salvation? The Vrishabha indicates how. Nirkuta (9-22) gives another derivative meaning for Vrishabha : ‘Atribrihati reta iti’ – roots out of the seed.

    When a Sadhak serves the Lord faithfully just as an ordinary bull serves his master day in and day out, without demanding or seeking anything for himself, then this very attitude sheds the seed of Vasanas and he will no more be born again.

    Compared to the previous sign, Aries, Mesha-Aja:

    Though Aja means the unborn, it refers to the "unborn-but-existing-in-eternity." Mesha (Aries) symbolizes the unborn or unmanifest potential chafing to externalize itself: it stands for subjective-objective unity. Mesha (Aries) represents the future possibilities of creative energy, the world-to-be rather than the world-as-it-is.

    Mesha (Aries) maintains a strong link with the central invisible Sun God...

    HPB says:

    The Purusha-Sukta or Hymn of Man (RV 10:90) states that the thousand-headed Purusha is dismembered at the foundation of the world so that from his remains the universe might arise. This is the foundation of the later Christian symbol of the sacrificial lamb, for there is here a play on words: Aja the “unborn” — Purusha or manvantaric spirit — may also be derived from the verbal root aj (to drive, propel), whose meanings include a he-goat, a ram, and the sign Aries. Spirit disappears — dies, metaphorically — the more it becomes involved in cosmic matter, and hence the sacrifice of the unborn, the lamb, or the ram.

    In India, Aries refers to the Unmanifest; but then for example, Buddha was born in Taurus.

    There is a marker found by Tod on Ellora:

    As emblematic
    of the sun, and placed between the celestial signs Aries and Taurus, which
    these ram-headed and bull-headed figures represent, Mahadeva may designate
    the position of the sun in the Zodiac when these sculptures were executed.

    It could not be the time of their making, but, like at Dendera, a historical marker.

    The Bull is grabbed in a few Vedic references linked by Incarnate Word:

    Twashtri is the Deva as Maker, Lord and Enjoyer of the world through the female energies, ग्नाः—the image of the Vrishabha & the Cows, the Lord and the Wife or Wives always present in the Veda.

    The seven rays or cows are Aditi the infinite Mother, the Cow unslayable, supreme Nature or infinite Consciousness, pristine source of the later idea of Prakriti or Shakti,—the Purusha is in this early pastoral imagery the Bull, Vrishabha,—the Mother of things taking form on the seven planes of her world-action as energy of conscious being.

    They are figured as fostering cows (dhenavaḥ), mares (aśvāḥ), they are called sapta vāṇīḥ, the seven Words of the creative goddess Vak,—Speech, the expressive power of Aditi, of the supreme Prakriti who is spoken of as the Cow just as the Deva or Purusha is described in the Veda as Vrishabha or Vrishan, the Bull. They are therefore the seven strands of all being, the seven streams or currents or forms of movement of the one conscious existence.

    Subba Row gave a useful Twelve Signs of the Zodiac. It shows a quick conversion of Greek to Indian Signs and he explains them, and HPB largely copied this as her information. So it was him who said the Bull "...is used in several places in the Upanishats and the Veda to mean Pranava (Aum). Shankarâchârya has so interpreted it in several portions of his commentary."

    Because he also gives the subject of Virgo and Scorpio, I thought he might have something to say about how Tula-Libra might be in the hands of some goddess, but he does not.

    The number of Tattvas is different according to the views of different philosophers; but by Shâktêyas generally and by several of the ancient Rshis such as Agastya, Durwâsa and Parasurâma, and others, the number of Tattvas has been stated to be thirty-six.

    This sign prepares the way to earthly Adam, to Nara. As the emblem of Nara it is properly placed as the seventh sign.

    He is using Tattva in this sense:

    Dharma Inc: The 36 Tattvas of Śakta-Śaiva Dharma

    A tattva is commonly translated into English as “element”. However, the concept of tattva is better understood as a “state of being” or as a state of energy/experience. These “states” are not independent realities or material, objective entities. Tattva models attempt to describe and organize all that exists in our universe of matter/energy/consciousness. The number of tattvas is very flexible as they are all dependent on the first or Śiva.

    The most commonly accepted models utilize a 36 tattva schema which is the re-interpreted samkhya 25 tattva model plus 11 more. It is important to remember that the sages of Kashmir weren’t trying to say that the model is the reality it describes. They were merely attempting to give the intellect a way to grasp reality beyond mind (meditation instructions).

    The vibrant creative energy of Parashiva, known as Spanda, moves him to manifest himself these 36 tattvas as a līlā or divine play.

    It is quite similar to Buddhism on Mahamaya:

    The interaction of Pure Maya and Impure Maya is the Pure - impure Maya where the souls (Pashus) attain knowledge which leads to the existence of whole universe.

    Mahāmāyā divides itself into three aspects: śuddha māyā, śuddha-aśuddha māyā, and aśuddha māyā, and causes five, seven, and twenty-four tattvas respectively.

    In the Pure Realm is a Purity Tattva:

    Also known as Sadvidyā

    In Sanskrit grammar, Sat, on its own:

    The true (i. e. real, substantive, self-subsisting) being;--a designation of Brahm as the real and sole substance of the (illusively) material universe. sat here has no implication of moral truth or moral goodness.

    and as above:

    True, real, actual, truly existing. 2 True, good, excellent, virtuous, right, fit, proper, true or good in the most extensive sense. Only in compounds and thus abundantly. Ex. satpuruṣa, sadguṇa, sadvidyā...

    Not abstract knowledge about, but, personal experience of, actual Goodness in various guises.

    In another hint from Kashmir:

    Beyond Siva tattva is the atattva, which is not counted among the 36.

    Atattva - ParaSiva or formless absolute Brahman who is beyond all the tattvas, symbolized by sivalinga, experienced in the state of samadhi.

    Does it matter whether there are twenty-five or thirty-six Tattvas? The answer is that it does matter. Lord Shiva is the Lord of Yoga and His tradition teaches that the Tattvas are 36 in number. For the sake of harmony and unity, all Yogic traditions must agree with this.

    However, there is another important reason. The number "36" is a sacred number which has a special meaning in Yoga.

    In fact, yes, it has many numerological significances. Three Zodiacs is thirty-six, and three of these is 108, the number of a Rosary. And it melds with the hexadecimal time system. It is fairly complex in a way that the next couple of sentences there did not benefit much. But, the size of this "meditative object", plus its sort of unspoken Parameswara, are again quite similar to Buddhism.

    As to the Pure Realm overall, re-working the generic term "evolution" from a large article by Arthur Avalon:

    The Evolution from Śiva-Śakti of the Pure Tattvas is not of this kind. It is an Ābhāsa or “shining forth,” adopting the simile of the sun which shines without (it was supposed) change in, or diminution, of, its light. This unaffectedness in spite of its being the material cause is called in the Pañcharātra by the term Vīrya, a condition which, the Vaiṣṇava Lakṣmī Tantra says, is not found in the world “where milk quickly loses its nature when curds appear.” It is a process in which one flame springs from another flame. Hence it is called “Flame to Flame.” There is a second Flame but the first from which it comes is unexhausted and still there. The cause remains what it was and yet appears differently in the effect.


    1e) The tula or balance of scale, addressed as.*

    * Matsya-purāṇa 274. 59.

    S. Sastri goes far more in-depth in Tantric Hieroglyphics:

    The letters A and Ha are said to originate Srividya. A is Prakasa and Ha is vimarsa.
    A-ham is the Mula Prakriti from which all creation proceeds. Mula Prakriti is nirguna and
    has no Prakriti. She is Sarasvati, the mother of creation. In the pancaratragama, siva says
    therefore that the Mother of the Universe is Sarasvati and that he is her son, born from the
    categories Mahat, etc.

    Mesa, Vrsabha, Kataka, Simha, Kanya or Tula or Vrscika, Makara, Kumbha rasis are
    indicated. Mesa-Tula and Kataka-Makara mark the equinoxes and solstices of the present
    calendar. The older date of about B.C. 3000 is indicated by the vernal equinox in Krttika.

    In the Tantras the matrkas and metres are intimately associated wlth astronomical
    data. Samkara in Prapancasara (Ch. IV) shows how from the Bhuvanesvari bija Hrim the
    varnas, tattvas, time divisions, etc. originate. Hrim is H, R, I, M. From Ha which is Prana, a,
    u and six urmis are derived. From Ra-R, Ru, Lr, Lru, and the four (colour, touch, taste and
    smell. From I-i, i, u, e, ai, from M-the bindu, visarga (with four gunas), karana, manas,
    buddhi, ahamkara, citta, forming the samghata (Body) and cetana (karyartha karanagata
    cidabhasa). From the vowels the consonants are derived (KA to Ksa). The Bhuvaneswari
    Bija with seven parts represents the seven planets. Surya is Svara as the lord of the planets
    represents all the vowels.

    The zodiac also originates from Bhuvanesvari :

    Bhu Cakra-two sets of rasis, inner and outer : Mesa Ikaranta, Vrsa rkaranta, Mithuna
    Ukaranta, Kataka Ekaranta, Okaranta, Kanya Am and Sa varga, Tula to Mina Ka, Ca, Ta,
    Ta, Pa vargas and Ya, Ra, La, Va respectively and Ksa is in Mina.

    Bhuvar Cakra – the twelve rasis are of the Pitrs, and in the Svar Cakra, of the devas.

    That encompasses the Three Worlds, Bhu, Bhuvar, Svar.

    What follows about her Zodiac will force us to enquire about multiple levels of reality and multiple kinds of creation. The impression I get is that a surface reading of only a few Puranas will look like the creation of the world, with various cycles of destruction and re-creation. However, some of the more intricate Puranas--in a somewhat sly but manageable way--definitely involve a series of descending creations, from a rather abstract plane, to an idea, to a visual blueprint. Each time it is unsatisfactory and incomplete. And so if you carefully examine the "era" before "our creation", it is a highly earth-like image in the Astral Plane, so to speak. This too is destroyed, but the saga of mixed karma between the various forces has already begun, and our world begins with what are essentially the re-incarnations of the previous.

    And so we have to try to explain this, because, evidently, the Indian Zodiac is based on this very distinction.

    I am going to clean up a larger table on:

    ...the houses of the zodiac are identified with the twelve adityas
    and forms of Visnu:

    and it is going to divinize the Zodiac to the class of Aditya deities, so, for each Sign, there is a deity, his caste, and his planetary ruler. As we do this, it is easy to see that Sani-Saturn is the only planted granted a pair of consecutive signs:

    Mesa -- Aries: Dhatr...Ksatriya, Kuja

    Vrsabha -- Taurus: Aryama...Sudra, Sukra

    Mithuna -- Gemini: Mitra...Vaisya, Budha

    Kataka -- Cancer: Varuna...Brahmana, Candra

    Simha -- Leo: Amsuman...Ksatriya, Surya

    Kanya -- Virgo: Bhaga...Sudra, Budha

    Tula -- Libra: Vivasvan...Vaisva, Sukra

    Vrscika -- Scorpio: Indra... Brahmana, Kuja

    Dhanus -- Sagittarius: Pusa...Ksatriya, Guru

    Makara -- Capricorn: Parjanya...Sudra, Sani

    Kumbha -- Aquarius: Tvastr...Vaisya, Sani

    Mina -- Pisces: Visnu...Brahmana, Guru


    Grahas and Naksatras are important in Nyasa. The Nityasodasikarnava and Tantraraja
    (Ch. II. 88-98) describe the Mother as the embodiment of Ganesa, Graha, Naksatra,
    Yoginis, Rasis, Mantras and Pitas.

    It proceeds through a beautiful hymn such as:

    Mahadevim paramanandarupinim

    The Zodiac is the Houses of a very selective class of Adityas:

    The twelve sons born to the sage Kaśyapa of his wife Aditi are known as the twelve Ādityas. They are the following: Dhātā, Mitra, Aryamā, Rudra, Varuṇa, Sūrya, Bhaga, Vivasvān, Pūṣā, Savitā, Tvaṣṭā and Viṣṇu. Besides these Aditi had twentyone children including Indra. All of them are called Ādityas meaning children of Aditi. From the thirtythree sons of Aditi were born the thirtythree crores of devatās. Of these the eldest is Indra and the youngest, Vāmana. (Śloka 36, Chapter 66, Ādi Parva, Mahābhārata). (There is corroboration for this in Śloka 14, Sarga 14, Araṇya Kāṇḍa, Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa).

    In prior eras:

    ...originally Vaikuṇṭhas and Sādhyas

    ...there are many different Ādityas in Ṛgveda, chief of them is Varuṇa. Though Savitā, Pūṣā and Mitra are all synonyms of Sūrya in Ṛgveda they are all separate devas.

    ...her youngest was Upendra, or Vāmanadeva, the dwarf incarnation of the Lord.

    Well-known in Buddhism for quite some time:

    Pali Kanon: Pali Proper Names

    Mother of the sun, who is called Adicca, which is explained as Aditiya putto. DA.iii.963.

    ...literally means 'unbounded', 'the boundless Heaven'

    She is called 'Devamātā' being strangely enough represented both as mother and daughter of Dakṣa. She had 8 sons; she approached the gods with 7 and cast away the 8th (Mārtaṇḍa, the sun.) In another place Aditi is addressed as 'supporter of the sky, sustainer of the earth, sovereign of this world, wife of Viṣṇu'

    Prajāpati caused the tejas of the aṇḍa in her garbha, and removing it at the request of gods, made it into two pieces, and finding it weak, placed it on the lap of the Sungod (Mārtāṇḍa): given to dharma.

    Here is what happens by the distinction of finite, or bounded, space:

    Her name means 'un-binding' or 'liberation'. She is said to possess ear-rings of unsurpassed splendor. She is always jealous of her sister (and co-wife) Diti, the mother of the Asuras.

    Once she incited her son Indra to cause the fetus of Diti to be split into seven pieces[Devi:4.3.18]. Diti cursed her, saying,

    "May seven sons be born to you. May you also suffer the grief of loss of your seven sons."

    Diti was born as Devaki, the sister of Kamsa as a result of this curse. Her first seven children were killed by her brother, for it had been foretold that her eighth child would be the his slayer.

    HPB is fond of Aditi:

    ...from and in her cosmic matrix all the heavenly bodies were born. As the celestial virgin and mother of every existing form and being, the synthesis of all things, she is highest akasa. Aditi is identified in the Rig-Veda with Vach (mystic speech) and also with the mulaprakriti of the Vedanta. As the womb of space, she is a feminized form of Brahma. The line in the Rig-Veda: “Daksha sprang from Aditi and Aditi from Daksha” has reference to “the eternal cyclic re-birth of the same divine Essence” (SD 2:247n). In one of its most mystic aspects Aditi is divine wisdom.

    Aditi has correspondences in many ancient religions: the highest Sephirah in the Zohar; the Gnostic Sophia-Achamoth; Rhea, mother of the Greek Olympians; Bythos or the great Deep; Amba; Surarani; Chaos; Waters of Space; Primordial Light; and the source of the Egyptian seven heavens. Sometimes she is linked with the Greek Gaia, goddess of earth, to denote dual nature or the mother of both the spiritual and physical: Aditi, cosmic expanse or space being the mother of all things; and Gaia, mother of earth and, on the larger scale, of all objective nature (cf SD 2:65, 269).

    Vamana, her youngest progeny, is a major incarnation of Vishnu who, so to speak, "bounds" space by filling it with consciousness:

    In the Vāmana incarnation, assuming the form of a Brāhmaṇa-dwarf, he traversed the earth, air and heaven in three strides and gained the earth from Bali, the lord of the demons.

    HPB says that he:

    ...in three world-encompassing strides deprived Bali of the heavens and the earth, all save the regions of Patala (the lower spheres of manifestation).

    These three strides of Vishnu represent the godlike emanation or essence passing through the three cosmic planes superior to the fourth or material plane, informing and inspiring as the essence proceeds.

    Diti becomes the more or less divine spatial extent of a cosmic unit, such as a universe, solar system, etc.; but the significance of Diti points directly to lofty spirit. “Diti . . . is the sixth principle of metaphysical nature, the Buddhi of Akasa. Diti, the mother of the Maruts, is one of her terrestrial forms, made to represent, at one and the same time, the divine Soul in the ascetic, and the divine aspirations of mystic Humanity toward deliverance from the webs of Maya, and final bliss in consequence” (SD 2:613-14).

    ...asked her husband to bless her with a child to kill Indra. The unwilling husband offered it on condition of her observing certain vows for 100 years. So she observed them and Indra came to assist her. One day he found her sleeping in an unorthodox posture and entering her womb cut the embryo into seven and then into 49 pieces; but at her request he gave all of them the status of gods, known as Maruts.

    By the power of her sacred rites, the child in the womb did not die as she was sleeping at that time, by a stroke of good luck. They were cut into seven pieces and so she had seven sons. These sons became gods by the name of Maruts. They all went to heaven along with Indra and were taken as his own attendants by the king of gods.

    So these are also a definite class of entity commonly called "Storm", which, one might suppose, is a disordered condition of their real meaning:

    Marut (मरुत्):—Another name for Vāyu, a Vedic deity representing the cosmic life breath (the universal spirit). The name Marut means “he without whom one dies”.

    So long as the breath (marut) is in the body, the soul is not released [from it]. The [breath’s] departure is death.

    Vital air or breath, life-wind

    wind, air, breath (also applied to the five winds in the body)

    Eventually, towards our material creation, Adityas come through with:

    ...the first marut gaṇa. Born with Rudras. Residents of Bhuvarloka. Offered presents (upāyana) at the time of the marriage of Kāmeśvara with Lalitā.

    Gods of the Vaivasvata epoch at the commencement of the first tretāyuga

    The present, the seventh manvantara is Vaivasvata [viz., vaivasvatamanvantara]. In this manvantara, Purandara is the Indra who is the Subduer of the pride of the Asuras; The gods are the Ādityas, the Rudras, the Vasus and the Maruts.

    So the Indian Vaivasvata Manu has the Libra role like the center of Ezekiel's Wheel.

    Scorpio--Indra makes sense, Indra being a type of Lord of the Form World but also the subject of Maya.

    The Saturnine deities are extremely occult and the last is Vishnu in his own line of descent incarnating as himself. The information we already have on Gemini is colossal. Now of course we have gotten this list from a Shakti source, so, it may not universally match everything, but, it may be the most useful kind.

    The Eight Vasus of Aditi are a specialized kind of elemental being.

    And the last is in something that is in all the systems. Aditi has Eleven Rudras:

    Nīlalohita, a chief Rudra.

    In the Vedas, Rudra is said to be “blue and red” (nīlalohita). His throat is blue. His belly is black and his back red —colours that probably relate to those of the sky at sunset. The Śrīmatottara refers to the goddess as Mahāpiṅgalā (the Great Tawny One) who establishes the order of the letters of the Mālinī alphabet. In this respect also, she is like Rudra who is also said to be a ruddy brown. This is because Rudra is the Fire just as the goddess is Saṃvartā, the energy of Fire.

    HPB reveres them:

    The rudras represent an aggregate of entities in the primary formation of worlds, as well as the intellectually informing principles of man. They are mythologically said to be at war with the shadowy entities and powers of the lower spheres, and hence are sometimes spoken of as the destroyers of outward forms.

    Rudra is truly the Siva of the Rig-Veda, and in many respects the Agni of later writings. Like Siva, Rudra is a beneficent deity (because regenerating), and a mistaken maleficent deity (because destroying falsehoods and imperfections at the same time). As the beneficent one or spiritual healer, Rudra is the higher human ego aspiring to its own spiritual pure state; and as the destroyer he is the same imprisoned higher human ego whose war against imperfection, evil, and sin make him the “roarer” or the “terrible.”

    Rudra is sometimes called the father of the maruts or Vedic storm gods.

    They are even referred to as the ten vital breaths or pranas because these ten vital breaths are the ten varieties of intellectual energies or forces flowing from them, and which on the intellectual plane may be spoken of as the mental pranas.

    So to just have this small piece of information about the Indian Zodiac means explaining the Adityas, who in total are the main characters in the Indra Heaven of the Thirty-three. This is completely metaphysical.

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    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
    • yes, Greek is a cognate of Sanskrit, but as any Indo-European language family is: Latin, Celtic (!), Germanic, Baltic, Slav, Albanian, Armenian, Persian etc., as well as a few more important “dead” languages..

    Yes to some extent they are, but Greek is "closer", particularly in its mythology. A significant amount of Indian culture is Hellenized. And, thank you, Coptic only refers to the alphabet.

    (1) Not “to some extent they are” Shaberon. They are cognate languages full stop.
    (2) I was referring to languages, where the concept of "cognateness" has a meaning. Linguistically, Greek is less closely related to Sanskrit than for instance Persian (“Indo-Aryan”) or Russian ("Slavonic”).
    (3) As for relatedness of the mythologies: the absence of proof is not the proof of absence. We have a vast corpus of written records in Classic Greek and a vastly larger corpus in Sanskrit. Relatedness of the mythologies is more visible. We have only a few written documents pertaining to Celtic mythology. This does not mean that Celtic mythology is less closely related. The authority on Indo-European comparative mythology, Georges Dumézil (his many volumes of Mythe et Épopée), attests to this.
    (4) “A significant amount of Indian culture is Hellenized”. I suppose you mean “has undergone influence from Greek culture”. Yes, of course, by the Greek kingdoms in the Middle East in the wake of Alexander’s conquest. But this is something quite different from the mythological relatedness which dates back seven millennia at least.
    (5) “thank you, Coptic only refers to the alphabet, you wrote. No, it is the other way round: the Coptic alphabet is derived from the Greek alphabet, but the Coptic language is Pharaonic Egyptian, hence a “Hamitic” language, directly related to Berber, and indirectly to all Semitic languages (Akkadian, Aramaic, Phoenician, Kanaanite and Hebrew, Arabic, Amharic, Tigre etc.).

    No I have never said much about the Islamic world but that is true about the Troubadors and is the reason that there is Romance in the West. Took it from the Arabs.

    Could probably say the same for Alchemy, which is of course dual, referring to substances as well as the human being.

    Islam is a relatively late development; Pythagoras, Buddha, and Confucius were almost contemporaneous, 500s B. C. E. In looking at the Middle East of this time, then, from the Indian perspective, "West" is a degraded branch of Zoroastrianism leading to a kind of redacted Judaism favoring the Demiurge, and the extreme dualism of Mani. This, so to speak, shakes hands with Aristotle to bring us "West" as we know it.
    “Looking from the Indian perspective”: (sigh) that may be the case but then a very small-minded and relatively ignorant Indian perspective. Pre-Socratic and Greek philosophy may have been influenced by Zoroastrianism (cf. trade contacts and the "Persian Wars”) but it has certainly as much and probably more been influenced by Egyptian religion and culture (Pythagoras, the mystery religions etc.). Mythological commonalities with Indian civilisation are pan-Indo-European in nature. The modern-day Indian fashion (in certain nationalist circles (!)) to consider India as the cradle of Indo-European culture/civilisation is untenable, if only on linguistic grounds.

    What seems a bit odd is that Prophet Mohammed PBUH spoke Sunnas coming from a trance which appeared to be the result of an epileptic seizure.
    This is a mischaracterisation of Islam and Mohammed’s spiritual path.
    It would be far more adequate to state, especially on a site as this one, that Mohammed experienced a series of visions and channelling experiences, directly from the Divine, or indirectly through a mediator, a messenger, whom he believed to be the Archangel Gabriel. (As I have contended elsewhere, the parallels with the channelling from the "Angel” experience by Gitta Mallasz and her friends are uncanny.)
    Apart from that, it is certain that the Qur‘ân in its present form [by the way, it is Sura’s, not Sunna’s, a slip of the pen I guess] is the result of a political and “religious" manipulation and mutilation of a grand work of spiritual poetry – manipulations and mutilations in which the Qur‘ân is not that different from what happened to the original “Good news” about and sayings of Jesus the Nazorean. And – as you may know – exactly the same thing can be said about the Buddhist canon and what were the original sayings (and acts?) of Gautama the Buddha.


    Thank you Shaberon. As you can see, I have commented on your reply with interlinear sentences in blue.

    I felt compelled to do so, because I think on these points you err or blur. It is important, I think, to leave more adequate statements for the record.
    Last edited by Michel Leclerc; 2nd May 2023 at 21:34.

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    Quote Posted by Applesprig (here)
    ...will take time to digest. The Greek platonists were influenced by the Egyptian Hermetic texts - I have taken an interest in this area, "dipped my toes in"
    Recently I bought Roger Boscovich's text " a Theory of Natural Philosphy". Do you have any understanding of this work ?

    Never heard of it.

    "Natural Philosophy" or "Natural Science" was standard up to Newton.

    We believe his work was gouged, i. e. everything "Natural" about it was scrapped, and plain Calculus became the definition of everything.

    From that point, *all* western education is compromised or colored by a guiding hand, resulting in what we have today.

    I, myself, did a science degree, and I noticed that once I learned Calculus, I simultaneously jetted whatever was "natural", or any alternative explanations to the Standard Cosmological Model. It is like being indoctrinated! Academia is about like the Military for ousting undesired opinions, you can't study or work if you don't toe the line.

    Even the "spectrum" is only a special case solution! There are at least eleven kinds of light spectra, depending on how you arrange prisms, mirrors, slits, etc., but a clever person might be able to work with these and disrupt our current understanding.

    In "Greece", or Dorian Greece, the first significant teacher was probably Orpheus. We are kind of overlooking the Minoans and Pelasgians, whose date ranges must go into the thousands B. C. E., and while they are interesting, what affects societies and intellectual history is continuity. For example, the country of Chad is mostly desert, but, along one of its few rivers, has been found the remains of a large civilization that appears to have settled there from around 600-1600. That is not very long ago. But nothing is known of it! There was no effect from it, and, digging around, you don't get Dendera Zodiacs or Nag Hammadi Gospels, but it appears they did have earthenware. Comparatively, it is hard to say for sure the Minoans contributed much that kept going, b with Orpheus, yes, there is preservation and re-use.

    The difference with Plato is by mixing in a bit of Egypt and Atlantis. He has made an unusual statement in a relatively mundane book "The Republic" which probably should have been a part of everyone's education, where it says, the people in government shall not own property. Before we can argue for or against that, we need to know he said it, in one of the earliest and most influential pieces of writing.

    Debt Jubilee is inscribed in the freaking Code of Hammurabi which is like one of the first examples of written language at all. Everyone who knows about it knows that if you even mention it, you will be considered insane.

    "Hermes" is not quite identifiable as an individual. I am not sure I quoted it, but, from the Indian Zodiac there was also a clear designation of "Mahadeva the Thrice-Greatest"...same title, except we know exactly what it means in India.

    The major reason Hermeticism is compatible with Orthodoxy is because Orthodoxy allows a similar approach to the presence of Sophia.

    If we can accept the Zodiac as a non- or trans-linguistic way to distribute a similar mythology, then, India is a part of this, whereas Tibet uses Chinese Astrology. So actually neither of them are in on the same conversation. I am not really sure if it spread to southeast Asia. But clearly India and everything west from it has a similar scheme since indeterminate time before known writings were made of it.

    Plato and Pythagoras clearly mark an influx from Egypt to Greece, and our oldest accurate information is probably the alignment of the Theban temple to Spica, and the death of Krishna, both around 3,000 B. C. E., so it would be kind of hard to argue the science of Astrology is not old. It probably was deified to some extent, without necessarily having the Zodiac as we know it.

    Having gone through it and found that the Wheel of Ezekiel would apply to the Indian Vaivasvata Manu, that is extraordinarily arcane.

    Sometimes I wish there was a mistake like I could scrub it away and be rid of it, but, when we are given the correspondences of the Twelve Adityas to the Signs rather than being told they are "related", that is what we get.

    There is no other evidence and I cannot possibly have any argument to the contrary, so, it cannot even be debated. WYSIWYG.

    As to Neo-Platonism, it was widespread around the Mediterranean, until around the 5-600s. It re-surfaced as the Medici Renaissance, which, except for a few remote individuals, if anything, continued in Russia. The original Theosophical Society is intended to be thoroughly Neo-Platonic, with the addition of material from several other cultures.

    What I would suggest is that someone should take the raw information about fragments of the Hermetic Corpus and attempt to trace its development. Psellos had the complete set, but, seems to be doing so from the view that "I am being Platonic but I certainly don't believe in this stuff"--and of course we could conjecture that was a total lie. An excuse for having the manuscripts. In all cases we always find individuals having to shroud and protect themselves from religious condemnation. That was still true in France in the 1700s. In fact Koothoomi characterizes Eliphas Levi as "still" dressing up his real doctrine in Christian terminology.

    Mandaeans are their own, pure, undiluted stream of Gnosticism, however the Druze are a type of agglomeration that was still under development around the time of Psellos. How much they may have had to do with such fragments I do not know, but, they were syncretic, up to a point. Another possible avenue of syncretism might be the the Kurdish Yezidi, who are essentially monothestic but say the world is under:

    heft sirr (the Seven Mysteries)

    It may be possible they accumulated Astrology, their original creed considered part of Ancient Iranian Hinduism:

    The major deities worshipped were Varuna and Mithra from Iran to Rome, but Agni was also worshipped, as names of kings and common public showing devotion to these three exist in most cases. But some sects, the precursors of the Magi, also worshipped Ahura Mazda, the chief of the Asuras [?].

    Hermes, Idris, Enoch, Thoth, are said to be synonymous, and Oannes Dagon I believe, meaning The Initiate. If it does, then, one ceases caring if it is about another personality, and rather learns to mimic the art. Between the Dendera Temple and the Book of the Dead I would say yes, that is major in scope, it is like a college degree in meditation, it rivals the Sanskrit.

    So is Atalanta Fugiens, I will give it credit there, it is not trivial.

    Part of the value that can be found in those things is that they are internalizable and portable.

    Like in the 1700s in Germany someone suggested "Inner Church".

    In the previous post ending around Red and Blue Shiva, he has two major points. One is that he is the original Rudra in the most primordial world, and so, is the one that continues through the rest. Secondly this was practiced by certain Atharva Veda followers, and it started to mean exactly that, i. e. they weren't stuck at a temple, but made a spiritual practice you could do on the road. The meaning is of course the transition of the Gnostic keys from the hands of a privileged few to anyone, anywhere.

    That is what made way for Sramana faiths, i. e., Aranyaka or Wilderness Literature, and sects such as the Jains and Buddhists.

    Before going too far with that I am going to have to correct what HPB said about something. It is not exactly wrong, but, one of the first available translations was Vishnu Purana 1840. The translator Wilson even said it seemed inadequate or incomplete in one of the first few footnotes. It is true that is is one of the oldest Puranas. In this case let us say "most basic". It does contain a statement about Three Solar and Four Lunar Pitris, and HPB only took this. But, it turns out not to be the whole story. And, almost all English-language theosophical systems simply repeat this.

    The explanation from the more complete Puranas says that as Shiva--Rudra progresses through various world systems, there are only two kinds of things, or kingdoms of nature, that are always the same. One is Agni or Fire. Why is it important that HPB has only one kind of basic statement, is because the second thing is these Pitrs or Pitris which literally does mean "Fathers"--but what this means in the Puranas is Time. It does not mean one's ancestors. It means "Grandfather Time" is a longer duration.

    Fire and Time are always the same in every world system.

    Everything else, Vishnu and the Devas and every kind of thing are mutable. They frequently reincarnate and repeat themselves, but, they also transmigrate into other kingdoms. It is like saying water elementals transform into birds sometimes. The stories get quite heavily detailed as worlds get more complex. That is why the Astral Plane sounds so much like this one, it is so long and continuous, that, if you are not specifically hunting the border, it...doesn't quite call attention to itself.

    In turn, there actually is something I credit the West for positively, which is its development of Harmony in music. Although not the first, Mozart and Haydn both grew up around Mesmer.

    Indian music does not have this. Western chord voicing is truly its own thing. If you go to an Orthodox service you can hear them singing in Greek Modal music. Indian and Greek are both interesting and they are both different musical theories, and the western circle of Keys and Grand Staff arrangement, etc., distinctly invents something that is not readily available elsewhere.

    And, like Vaivasvata taking the role of Enoch is very weird, this next description is just a bit beyond the beyond.

    I am just going to post a few relevant excerpts as each of these articles is quite large and they are rather interesting. Perhaps our favorite Jesuit, this next guy reads like a Roald Dahl or Tim Burton tragicomedy creation:

    Athanasius Kircher (1602-1680)

    Kircher claimed to have deciphered the hieroglyphic writing of the ancient Egyptian language, but most of his assumptions and translations in the field turned out to be wrong. He did, however, correctly establish the link between the ancient Egyptian and the Coptic languages, and some commentators regard him as the founder of Egyptology. Kircher was also fascinated with Sinology and wrote an encyclopedia of China, where he revealed the early presence of Nestorian Christians while also attempting to establish links with Egypt and Christianity.

    In Oedipus Aegyptiacus, Kircher argued under the impression of the Hieroglyphica that ancient Egyptian was the language spoken by Adam and Eve, that Hermes Trismegistus was Moses, and that hieroglyphs were occult symbols which "cannot be translated by words, but expressed only by marks, characters and figures." This led him to translate the simple hieroglyphic text ḏd Wsr ("Osiris says") as "The treachery of Typhon ends at the throne of Isis; the moisture of nature is guarded by the vigilance of Anubis".

    ...also claimed that the Chinese were descended from the sons of Ham, that Confucius was Hermes Trismegistus/Moses and that the Chinese characters were abstracted hieroglyphs.

    Kircher was sent the Voynich Manuscript in 1666 by Johannes Marcus Marci in the hope of Kircher being able to decipher it. The manuscript remained in the Collegio Romano until Victor Emmanuel II of Italy annexed the Papal States in 1870, though scepticism as to the authenticity of the story and of the origin of the manuscript itself exists.

    He invented or built all sorts of things, such as this magnetic clock:

    This is Egyptian and Plato's Atlantis, South up:

    Kircher was largely neglected until the late 20th century.

    Not surprised about that. His page is a classic, no one can ever do that again, but what they have neglected to do is make him stand at the forefront of the intriguing Music of the Spheres:

    ...music of the spheres or harmony of the spheres, is a philosophical concept that regards proportions in the movements of celestial bodies – the Sun, Moon, and planets – as a form of music. The theory, originating in ancient Greece, was a tenet of Pythagoreanism, and was later developed by 16th-century astronomer Johannes Kepler. Kepler did not believe this "music" to be audible, but felt that it could nevertheless be heard by the soul. The idea continued to appeal to scholars until the end of the Renaissance, influencing many schools of thought, including humanism.

    Pythagoras proposed that the Sun, Moon and planets all emit their own unique hum based on their orbital revolution, and that the quality of life on Earth reflects the tenor of celestial sounds which are physically imperceptible to the human ear. Subsequently, Plato described astronomy and music as "twinned" studies of sensual recognition: astronomy for the eyes, music for the ears, and both requiring knowledge of numerical proportions.

    Not to argue with a Hermetic site:

    The Harmony of the Spheres, a transdisciplinary idea that unites cosmology, astronomy, mathematics, and music theory, has been a major vehicle of the Pythagorean current in the intellectual history of the West.

    His own solution, known as the Tychonian system, has the planets revolving around the sun, while the sun, together with the moon and the fixed stars, revolves around an unmoving earth.

    It was this cosmology that was eventually adopted by the Society of Jesus, and thus of necessity by Kircher. Originally, the Jesuits had no official position on the matter, except that the Society’s rules required that “In matters of any importance professors of philosophy should not deviate from the views of Aristotle...

    Next, he was a pioneer towards an unusual instrument which became called a Glass Harmonica:

    Because its sounding portion is made of glass, the glass harmonica is a type of crystallophone. The phenomenon of rubbing a wet finger around the rim of a wine goblet to produce tones is documented back to Renaissance times; Galileo considered the phenomenon (in his Two New Sciences), as did Athanasius Kircher.

    Introducing Marie Antoinette, Maria Theresa, Mozart, Mesmer, Benjamin Franklin.

    Woops, ha ha. What happened. We just read in writing that a guy was supposed to kowtow Aristotle except under certain exceptions. His idea however has been ruthlessly stolen by Neo-Platonists. It makes music, which were are told is the main Pythagorean influence in the West. Is that not so?
    Last edited by shaberon; 3rd May 2023 at 07:47.

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