Alan Watts Discussion

[onawah]

I would say that is a very naive assessment, based on the belief that spirituality can only be attained through asceticism and self-denial, and that no genuine seeker could have periods of cynicism, despair or self-loathing.
You might as well portray the whole of Tantra as a path to destruction.
I have never heard him criticize Christianity, but if you regard Christianity as the only truth, not taking into consideration how much the true story of Jesus has been distorted by the Church, then I suppose you would also regard the doctrine of reincarnation as heresy and other subjects that Watts has discussed taken from the teachings of Buddhism and Hinduism.
To portray such a brilliant man as Watts as evil is a disservice and certainly doesn't take into account the countless people who he helped enlighten and encourage on their own path.
I personally felt his spirit as he left his body, and it was not an evil one--I've had contact with some of those as well, unfortunately, and I can tell the difference.
I've also met self-righteous, self-denying people in robes who play a good game pretending to be spiritual, but who are simply hiding away in religious institutions because they can't cope with the world.

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
My personal opinion, formed over many years, is that Alan Watts was intelligent, articulate and well-informed; but was on the side of evil in the spiritual war.

Indeed, from what I know of his personal behaviour and the core messages he propagated, I would not be surprised if he was an agent of The Establishment - whether witting or unwitting.

Father Seraphim Rose (probably a genuine modern saint of the Russian Orthodox Church) knew and was impressed by Watts in his earlier years - but after Rose converted then became a monk he recognized Watts for the dangerous person he was.

This is described in the following video:

[Bruce G Charlton]

My personal opinion, formed over many years, is that Alan Watts was intelligent, articulate and well-informed; but was on the side of evil in the spiritual war.

Indeed, from what I know of his personal behaviour and the core messages he propagated, I would not be surprised if he was an agent of The Establishment - whether witting or unwitting.

Father Seraphim Rose (probably a genuine modern saint of the Russian Orthodox Church) knew and was impressed by Watts in his earlier years - but after Rose converted then became a monk he recognized Watts for the dangerous person he was.

This is described in the following video:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OtdujL4O0Kg

[ExomatrixTV]

Posted by onawah (here)
...

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
My personal opinion, formed over many years, is that Alan Watts was intelligent, articulate and well-informed; but was on the side of evil in the spiritual war.

Indeed, from what I know of his personal behaviour and the core messages he propagated, I would not be surprised if he was an agent of The Establishment - whether witting or unwitting.

Father Seraphim Rose (probably a genuine modern saint of the Russian Orthodox Church) knew and was impressed by Watts in his earlier years - but after Rose converted then became a monk he recognized Watts for the dangerous person he was.

This is described in the following video:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OtdujL4O0Kg

From day one, I knew Alan Watts has its flaws and he has his personal agenda, no biggie for me ... I also know he is a great inspiring communicator about how things are versus how it is sold to us it "is" ... to question everything including Allan Watts claims is like kicking an open door for me ...

His sense of humor is most likely derived from his own journey of frustrations where he can relate to "Westerners" much more and not necessarily "Easterners" that is why I knew it is limited even if it appears "not to be limited".

In this 14 min 30 sec video at the 13:09 marker Seraphim Rose (or the video-maker C. M. Bradley) claims: Allan Watts created "great system of lies" ... Now I am really sincerely fascinated by such a claim ... or rather: big accusation ... Where can we find a list of all lies Allan Watts supposedly has shared to the world? >>> or are we not allowed to ask such questions?

Because am sure he may have lied to us (never saw evidence of that) >>> but claiming: "great system of lies" is a big claim ... Would really love to study that ... I have seen/studied over 50 audio & videos of Allan Watts that helped me in so many ways in the past ... If that form of help was/is based upon: "great system of lies" am extra interested to find that out how much of these accusations has any merit. Am not claiming Allen Watts is a "Saint" he is certainly not perfect ... but he can not defend himself now he is dead!

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Applesprig]

SERAPHIM ROSE ON ALAN WATTS
I couldn't have said it better.... the sands of Time will wash away his influence to nothingness.

[ExomatrixTV]

Posted by Applesprig (here)
SERAPHIM ROSE ON ALAN WATTS
I couldn't have said it better.... the sands of Time will wash away his influence to nothingness.

if you identify with the ego indeed ... and who says it was about "influence" ??? That assumption says more about you & Seraphim Rosethan than anything else ... Inspiration does not seek "influence" nor "control" nor any other protection you can come up with ... Just because you assume he is working "for the other side" does not make it so ... that too is also another projection of the ego.

--o-O-o--

🌐 To summarize them in just 2 words is: "Tunnel Vision" ... They try to narrow millions of unbound minds imposing everybody in to their mold (mind-set) serving only their agenda full of self-imposed limitations.

He or she (or it, like a soulless A.I.) that "needs" to have power over "others" actually make a clear statement ... that: ... They do NOT have it ... because anyone that knows how to empower oneself first does NOT need to be a (vulture) parasite and is beyond the mass conditioning beyond the "poor me mentality" (which only breeds more "poor me reality"). That is true power!

🌐 Anyone that uses his (unlimited) creative potential to be a "brilliant" pessimist, (often using pathetic & lame excuses NOT to test their own assumptions), claiming to be a "realist" ... is NOT a sign of real intelligence ... Anyone that uses his (unlimited) creative potential to be a brilliant optimist plus testing ones own assumptions, THAT is a real sign of (practical) intelligence ... as we learn from TESTING our own assumptions (good or bad!).

• True or False?

🌐 You are NOT "thoughts" you are just having them ... they come and go just like tides of the sea ... Remember that you are always more than any thought you have about yourself (past present & future combined) ... and you are always more than any thought OTHERS had, have and going to have about you combined ... "who you are supposed to be" according to their projected (limited) beliefs.

🌐 When people having too many self-sabotaging thoughts (which is often connected to anxiety attacks or fears) ... you may find it useful to ask 3 simple questions:

01. What does bring me?

~ what (practical) effects does my destructive thoughts, convictions, assumptions, beliefs & self-pity have?

02. What does it do to me?

~ how does it make you feel, what happens if you stay in that mode?

03. Where does it lead it too?

~ one leads to another and THAT leads to another situation etc. etc., "state of mind" determinants circumstance and these circumstances can TRIGGER a 'poor me' "state of mind" OR empowering state of mind ... Finding out how to keep using uplifting creative spirit or break the CYCLE of despair can be your ultimate fate of your multidimensional Soul.

Every day you/we have a CHOICE: to use (y)our unlimited creative potential (intelligence) for >>> optimism or pessimism <<< and BOTH can have their flaws but only one of them can bring you forward to learn how to do things better next time as you can become wiser & smarter by testing your assumptions without seeking (lame) excuses not to engage with whatever your passion is. If you have no passion yet ... there are tons of videos out there that can help you find it. No joke!

cheers,
John Kuhles (Near Death Experiencer).
March 21, 2021

• source

Above was a reaction to this video below, and both are highly relative:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=t64Mj9gcZAQ

ps. you still did not respond to this (I wonder why).

[onawah]

Are you referring to Alan Watts? If so, why?

Posted by Applesprig (here)
SERAPHIM ROSE ON ALAN WATTS
I couldn't have said it better.... the sands of Time will wash away his influence to nothingness.

[Applesprig]

I am sorry for making that comment Onawah, each to his own. It's just that I dont like him and that video says it all (Seraphim Rose on Alan Watts).
I have watched the video again ; it is a bit long winded. Basically it talks about the superficiality of Alan Watts philosophy, although he had enormous charisma and some truth, I think the substance of his philosophy is " to do as thou wilt " anything goes.

[ExomatrixTV]

Posted by Applesprig (here)
his philosophy is " to do as thou wilt " anything goes

Yes, that is a known philosophy/principle of some Satanists, if you take that to the extreme the question arises, do you really assume that this is the "secret goal" or "ultimate agenda" that applies to Alan Watts? ... Really?

Why? ... Because you can not handle to be 100% responsible for your own thoughts?

• To assume the ultra opposite of the: "to do as thou wilt" aka "anything goes" philosophy, suppose to be "perfect" ???

That means do not take any responsibility for your own quality of thinking and to act in way that is dictated by others who claim "authority" even if it can be proven how many times so-called "righteous authorities" of all kinds are more than often: totally corrupt, flawed, abusers of power, pedophile priests, scammers, liars, deceivers and on and on and on.

• Many so-called "good people" find comfort in letting others doing the "thinking" for them and by doing so they always can blame "the other" for things they did to serve "the greater good" ... even if it is based upon lies & deceptions posing as "good".

If you do not trust any human to take full responsibility for their own quality of thinking and act accordingly and face the consequences of their own choices and LEARN FROM IT ... than the only thing that is left is doing the opposite and that is mass THOUGHT & PERCEPTION CONTROL of billions through imposed belief systems.

Now when someone is allowed to think for themselves (suppose to be "dangerous") does not necessarily mean "he or she does as he or she pleases" .... When someone is allowed to question everything including so-called "authorities" especially religious ones >>> does not necessarily mean "he or she does as he or she pleases" nor "anything goes" rhetoric. <<< This FALSE assumption is based upon assuming "people can 'not' have morals & ethics" ...

... and religious fanatics claim to have a "monopoly" on high morals & ethics ... No wonder they project their false fears on others because it is based upon tunnel vision narratives AND total arrogance!

• In my view, there is no monopoly on genuine spirituality, and organized religion is often the opposite of real spirituality!

cheers,
John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
April 27th, 2023 🦜🦋🌳


ps. you still did not respond to this and this (I wonder why!).

[onawah]

Then I would say you really don't know much at all about Alan Watts.
This thread was started for the purpose of sharing and appreciating Watt's work, and if your purpose is other than that, then please start your own thread.
Watts may have not been orthodox in the sense that so many so-called gurus are, but he was most certainly a far cry from being Satanic.
As anyone who knew him personally could tell you.

Posted by Applesprig (here)
I am sorry for making that comment Onawah, each to his own. It's just that I dont like him and that video says it all (Seraphim Rose on Alan Watts).
I have watched the video again ; it is a bit long winded. Basically it talks about the superficiality of Alan Watts philosophy, although he had enormous charisma and some truth, I think the substance of his philosophy is " to do as thou wilt " anything goes.

[palehorse]

Posted by Applesprig (here)
I am sorry for making that comment Onawah, each to his own. It's just that I dont like him and that video says it all (Seraphim Rose on Alan Watts).
I have watched the video again ; it is a bit long winded. Basically it talks about the superficiality of Alan Watts philosophy, although he had enormous charisma and some truth, I think the substance of his philosophy is " to do as thou wilt " anything goes.

“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”
― Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law

The phrase is the motto of Thelema religion founded by Crowley.

Not sure who actually created the term before crowley, because he too was influenced by other occultists.

[onawah]

This thread was started for the purpose of sharing and appreciating Watt's work, and if your purpose is other than that, then please start your own thread.

Posted by palehorse (here)

Posted by Applesprig (here)
I am sorry for making that comment Onawah, each to his own. It's just that I dont like him and that video says it all (Seraphim Rose on Alan Watts).
I have watched the video again ; it is a bit long winded. Basically it talks about the superficiality of Alan Watts philosophy, although he had enormous charisma and some truth, I think the substance of his philosophy is " to do as thou wilt " anything goes.

“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”
― Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law

The phrase is the motto of Thelema religion founded by Crowley.

Not sure who actually created the term before crowley, because he too was influenced by other occultists.

[Applesprig]

I commented on a video on Watts that was already submitted, several people liked that submission and I also gave a very short approval. Note the thread just said Alan Watts. I will tread . more carefully next time

[ExomatrixTV]

Posted by Applesprig (here)
I commented on a video on Watts that was already submitted, several people liked that submission and I also gave a very short approval. Note the thread just said Alan Watts. I will tread . more carefully next time

You still did not respond to this and this and now this too (I wonder why!) >>> all three with valid questions ...

• Hiding behind someone else's claims does not fly here! ... You could at least see the cognitive dissonance of yourself and Seraphim Rose.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Applesprig]

Hi ExomTrixTV, I haven't responded yet because I am spending most of the day in the field planting and other than a quick reply between coffee breaks , I would certainly need to submit something substantial for your scrutiny and of course I cannot submit or reference some other person's opinion in a video or quote - that would be hiding behind someone else's opinions as you suggested that I am doing. I will get to it when I have the time to do so.
The reply I wrote yesterday " the sands of TiME....... nothingness" is not very eloquent, what I meant by it is that lets say in 200 years from now, Budda, Jesus for example will still be remèmbered, but I doubt anyone will remember Alan Watts.

[ExomatrixTV]

Posted by Applesprig (here)
Hi ExomTrixTV, I haven't responded yet because I am spending most of the day in the field planting and other than a quick reply between coffee breaks , I would certainly need to submit something substantial for your scrutiny and of course I cannot submit or reference some other person's opinion in a video or quote - that would be hiding behind someone else's opinions as you suggested that I am doing. I will get to it when I have the time to do so.

Most of us value personal living wisdom/insights more than citing others indeed

[Applesprig]

Anyway I suppose it was a bit insensitive of me to offend Onawah, it is true that her thread was intended for the fans of Alan Watts - it s just that I took delight in finding that Bruce G Charlton also did not like his philosophy, such is human weakness. Also I am new to this forum and do not wish to create discord.

[ExomatrixTV]

Posted by Applesprig (here)
Anyway I suppose it was a bit insensitive of me to offend Onawah, it is true that her thread was intended for the fans of Alan Watts - it s just that I took delight in finding that Bruce G Charlton also did not like his philosophy, such is human weakness. Also I am new to this forum and do not wish to create discord.

Any discord created (with the risk of "offending"**) can also create opportunities to clean up misconceptions, clear up misrepresentations, elaborate true intentions, learning from more than one perspectives >>> as long as all sides are wiling to learn something new ... but if that "new" has some flaws you have to expect honest rebuttals and counter-insights ... that can help "neutrals" to make better informed decisions.

Anyone who casts/inserts/injects criticism (even if it came from other sources) must also be able (expect) to receive it! ... If that is "unwanted", then look in the mirror

• I do not mind discord as long as all sides are willing to learn something new.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳


** most Avalonians are not that easy to be "offended" ... more like questioning/inquiring motives and what the real purpose/intent is.

[Applesprig]

Of course. And PERSONAL finger pointing is not good.

[onawah]

I would greatly appreciate it if Applesprig and ExomatrixTV would ask the Mods to have their conversation moved to a different thread, as their discussion adds very little to this thread except distraction.
I would also suggest that Applesprig, who is a new member on this forum, acquaint herself better with the way things are done on the forum before taking a very active role.
Thank you.

Posted by Applesprig (here)
SERAPHIM ROSE ON ALAN WATTS
I couldn't have said it better.... the sands of Time will wash away his influence to nothingness.

Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
ps. you still did not respond to this (I wonder why).

[Applesprig]

Noted. Will do my best.